professor nina silver spoke at the annual abraham lincoln symposium about lincoln's influence on new deal americans during the 1930's. the abraham lincoln institute at ford's theater society hosted the symposium at ford's theater in washington, d.c.. this is about 50 minutes. [crowd voices] host: welcome back. i'm the curator of the abraham lincoln papers at the library of

congress. the president traveled by train from washington to gettysburg, pennsylvania to visit the battleground and dedicate hallowed ground. speaking before naughty and's that included veterans of the great battle, the president addressed challenges the nation faced and the need to preserve a government of the people. but the year was 1938, not 1863. the veterans were 75 years older and the president was franklin delano roosevelt, not abraham lincoln. "new york herald tribune" reprinted the speech under the headline, roosevelt's gettysburg address. "the chicago tribune" proclaimed, roosevelt dons lincoln army -- lincoln armor at gettysburg. wonder how aps to statesman of one jenna marriage of onestatesmen generation would surmount the difficulties of another.

not often can he claim conscious patterns for the far-off future, fdr acknowledged. but the fullness of the stature of lincoln's nature and the fundamental conflict which events forced upon his presidency invite us to turn to him for help. of theuch vocations civil war passed in a new deal era context that nina silver "thises in her new book, war ain't over: fighting the civil war in new deal america." professor silver introduces new characters to the civil war memoranda explores -- civil war memoranda explores how americans recalled the civil war. since completing her training at sorry, iey, go bears, had to do that, professor silver has returned repeatedly to the fertile field of civil war studies to uncover new

perspectives with which to engage civil war history. she has documented the gender dimensions of the war in daughters of the union. reunion"romance of silver traced shifts in northern sentiment toward the south during sectional reconciliation, and the casualties of that reunion. in addition to her publications, professor silver has further understanding of the civil war era through her distinguished teaching career at boston university and her contributions to public history projects. i can testify to professor silver's ability to inspire and inform, having long benefited from the insights contained in her academic scholarship. i recently read an interview in which professor silver was asked

if she collected historical artifacts. and i learned for the first time of the existence of civil war nurse barbie. [laughter] did you know barbie was a nurse at gettysburg? physicalgiven barbie's attributes, perky personality and fondness for accessories, did notsing barbie serve on staff. she is still waiting for the barbie dream ambulance. [laughter] if you understood those jokes, clearly this war ain't over for you either. here to share how new deal the legacy ofaped abraham lincoln, please welcome nina silver. [applause] professor silver: thank you, michelle. i think actually barbie met lincoln in that book. [laughter]

or at least there was a picture, wasn't actually a photograph. but thank you for that kind introduction. i am honored to be here in this setting with this esteemed group. i'm nervous. have never been on the stage at ford's theater before. i'm taking it all he and. i'm deeply grateful to john white and the abraham lincoln institute for the kind invitation to be here. a little bit more about me. i'm a scholar who studies the history of the american civil war, but i also study how we use and sometimes how we misuse the history of the civil war. i'm interested in how people appropriated the war, how they reinterpreted it, and often they do that so that it speaks to their present-day concerns. they kind of manipulate the history to speak to the present. anybody who hasn't been under a rock the past couple of years probably knows something about

how the civil war continues to get reappropriated and reinterpreted in the pleasant -- in the present day. and every recent clash over confederate monuments, civil war history continues to be retold with present-day concerns in mind. inething similar happened the 1930's. it wasn't so much with monuments because people weren't actually building monuments in the 1930's. the 1930's were a decade of crisis and a people. it had a lothought of similarities to the 1860's. and no historical figure came in for more reimagining and reinterpreting during the 1930's and abraham lincoln. -- 1930's then abraham lincoln. than abraham lincoln. this is going to be me talking about how lincoln was imagined in the 20th century.

depression, lincoln was everywhere. movies were made about him, including one by legendary filmmaker dw griffith, as well as to better-known lincoln movies from the end of the decade. there was "young mr. lincoln," that's the 19 already nine film with henry fonda playing lincoln. there was "abe lincoln in illinois" with raymond massey as lincoln. ancoln even meets with confederate sympathizer played by shirley temple. she met lincoln too. the two of them shared an apple and then lincoln free' -- lincoln freeze shirley's father, who was falsely accused of being a confederate spy, from prison. lincoln starting novels, radio programs, theater performances, including two popular plays produced by the wpa federal theater. i think there were a lot more than just the two.

there were small, regional productions and festivals about lincoln. he was very popular staple in the federal theater. in one of these popular wpa plays he was reincarnated as a kentucky college professor who helps resolve a labor dispute. [laughter] i have read a lot of lincoln screenplays and scripts, and that is one of the stranger interpretations of lincoln i have come across. frequently in the thick of 1930's politics, scrutinized and celebrated by new dealers, conservatives and civil-rights activist. -- activists. lincoln's power went beyond political symbolism because he also struck a deep emotional cord with americans in these years. carl sandberg wrote a well-known multi-volume biography of the 16th president during the 1920's and 1930's and he probably did more than anyone to give lincoln an emotional half.

the son of swedish immigrants parents -- swedish immigrant parents who settle on the eleanor prairie, sandberg seemed attached to the notion that working people and immigrants saw something in lincoln that made democracy viable and accessible. sandberg used the kind of documentary style that became popular in the 1930's. it was similar to the style writers, onlyher sandberg applied this to lincoln, surrounding him and a collage of historical details -- allowing him to merge emerged almost seamlessly with -- to merge almost seamlessly with the thoughts and feelings of ordinary americans. the connection to ordinary folks who did the mentality of the 1930's because it was a moment when people tended to blame elite bankers and elite politicians. they said those were the ones responsible for creating the current economic climate --

economic crisis, so they tended to believe wanted to believe that the folk wisdom of the plain people would help american democracy survive. sandberg's work was surely on the minds of -- on the mind of literary critic alfred hayes and when he remarked, americans developed a passionate addiction to lincoln. in 1942 after having written to lincoln poems and completed three portraits of the 16th president, the painter marsden hartley used even stronger language when he said, "i am man." in love with that now, before the depression, lincoln did not radiate that kind of attachment, that kind of passion. there were not declarations of heartfelt love for abraham lincoln. in some ways he didn't even radiate the same amount of power

that he would have in the 1930's. it is not people -- it is not that people weren't talking about lincoln, but he didn't seem to possess strength in the same way that he weighed in the 30's. decades,en true for lincoln stood as a figure of moderation dent reconciliation. he was described by former president william howard taft as reflecting the brotherly love between north and south. in 1930, with economic collapse looming, president hoover hailed lincoln not as a great emancipator, but as a great moderator. his words, said hoover, poured their blessings of restraint on each subsequent generation. griffithame year dw used lincoln as a subject for his first talking thelma. and griffith, like a lot of artists in the 1930's, said he was influenced by carl sandberg and wanted to incorporate

sandberg's work into what he was doing and even tried to hire call sandberg as a consultant on his film. ,ut sandberg was too expensive so he found somebody else to do that work. -- nonetheless, it griffiths' lincoln has nothing like the sandberg lincoln about it. he's a bland and monotonous figure in dw griffith's film. he is your standard issue, let's get everybody together kind of person. , griffither explained or lincoln made a notable attempt to be fair to the two halves of our nation. and like a lot of the abraham before a carrayed sandberg had been writing, lincoln in griffiths' film was a crude frontiersman. president,e, the soon after arriving in washington, flops down on the white house floor to take a nap.

, neutral, andand apparently fatigued lincoln who was or trade in this film, and reflected of lincoln reluctance on the part of many white americans to invest the 16th president with substantial -- substantiala power, precisely because lincoln in these years had to be safe, moderate, someone who could heal the wounds of sectional division. and in this way, lincoln was being called on to play a part since he had been playing since at least the end of the 19th century, when the story of the civil war was often told and the tale of division that gave way to unification. that idea was most vividly imagined and the idea of white soldiers from opposing sides shaking hands across a bloody

chasm, or across the stone wall at gettysburg. the idea of reconciliation seemed to be about two more or less equal sections coming together, not really about a nation or about lincoln imposing power on its subjects. especially those who came from a rebellious section of the country. a -- had lincoln and imagined as he really was, that is as a figure of enteral authority who forced seated states into political and military submission, he would have complicated that the life and good reconciliation narrative. so to keep things balanced, lincoln in these years took a backseat to the emotional bonding of north and south. this is the kind of image you earlierw griffith's motion picture, "birth of a nation."

there are a lot of things that are odd about that phil meant a lot of things that are ought about how lincoln is portrayed in the film. the lincoln in "birth of a nation" is oddly androgynous, hepy, he wears a shawl, serves as one historian says, as both father and mother figure to the american people. and yet in the end, it is not lincoln who helps give birth of griffith'sin dw film, but the consolidated power of white to ben. power of white men, north and south, especially the ku klux klan. this image of a relatively weak lincoln presidency may be one reason why the story of lincoln's youth, his frontier upbringing, awkward but heartfelt romantic encounters, mediocre performance as a postal clerk, these stories became so captivating in the early

20th-century because here was territory that could be mined for engaging human material without having to venture into the messy business of lincoln as a figure of power who actually enacted measures, emancipation, for example, that did not meet with universal acclaim. , my argument is lincoln looks different. he is not a bland figure of moderation, but in fact he seems to foreshadow a more powerful nationstate that was extending the blessings of freedom to a wider group of americans. with his image being consciously reworked by writers and politicians, lincoln became a forerunner for the groundbreaking work of franklin roosevelt's new deal. as early as 1934, carl sandberg helped usher in this new lincoln when he compared fdr's national recovery program and its

assistance for industrial workers to lincoln's role in emancipation. both presidents, sandberg insisted, used their executive position to proclaim a new status for an oppressed people. taking a cue from sandberg, fdr also made lincoln his model for initiating social reform through expanded executive power. lincoln, roosevelt claimed, did not simply heal this sectional rift, but transacted -- but transcended sectionalism and brought new meaning to the concepts of our constitutional fathers and to assure for a government having as its broad purpose the promotion of life, liberty and happiness of all the people. in other words, styled lincoln as a 19th-century century version of himself. no longer just a healer and reconciler, lincoln became aligned with the centralizing and reforming efforts of new liberalism.

also has suggested, the new deal lincoln was also more of a great emancipator than a great moderator. it is true academics and popularizers had always called attention to this aspect of lincoln's presidency, but the work of freeing the slaves came more to the forefront the 1930's and the new deal writers and artists and politicians imagined the way fdr unlike imagined himself, as someone who channeled a new political energy in some way to make people's lives better. said, strengthened the hand of the federal government in order to attend to people's distress, a distress once marked by 19th-century chattel slavery, but which could just as easily be marked by a 20th century economic crisis.

ordinary people often use this language in letters they wrote to roosevelt. freed thencoln chattel slaves, said one writer in a letter to fdr, and now mr. president, you are about to free the child and wage slaves. this was language used frequently. people wrote a lot of letters to fdr and the administration. they often used this language of slavery, we live like slaves, we work like slaves, and then they would dry out this idea that someone like roosevelt was needed to free the slaves. but it wasn't quite so simple. it wasn't simple to talk about a bold president freeing the slaves since lincoln had directed his actions toward enslaved black men and women. roosevelt and his supporters were more reluctant to be associated with a

racially-defined agenda. as a democratic president who needed the support of powerful white southerners and his party, roosevelt preferred keeping race issues on the back burner and showed little interest in upsetting the racial status quite when the jim crow south. feeling political pressure of white southerners and his party, to lend hisfused support to the federal anti-lynching law being urged by some members of congress. he also preferred to think about lincoln and a race-neutral way, as someone who practiced a broad-based humanitarianism that helped all people. fdr insisted, was an emancipator, not of slaves alone but of those of heavy heart everywhere. i'm pretty sure this is not how people in the 1860's would have interpreted the emancipation proclamation.

to the extent fdr and other new dealers talked about slavery, they worked hard to redefine slavery as a condition that affected white people as much as black. in fact, whites seemed to suffer more from slavery than african-americans. as they explained it, the slavery of the 1930's was mainly about economic devastation and constraint that largely affected wage workers, the majority of whom were white. despite the fact that all our people are free and have the right to work and live where they please, said one politician, there are many who s lived that our toiler and virtual economic slavery. the assumptions that all people could work and live where they pleased, something not available to african-americans, suggested that they were not really thinking about african-americans in this definition of virtual economic slavery.

according to representative frank dorsey of pennsylvania, lincoln's hatred of precious human beings becoming their chattel would have seamlessly extended into his distaste for the new slavery that placed man in economic peonage. this quality, dorsey argued, made lincoln a new dealer of the late 1850's and early 1860's. i think in the 1930's people seemed more comfortable seeing lincoln in roosevelt's phrase, he free to those of heavy heart everywhere. in american popular culture, heavy hearts seemed to rest mainly in the souls of white men. in a popular 1936 play, a reincarnated lincoln comes to kentucky to help white coal miners fight their own brand of slavery.

striking miners in a raid across the stage and hold a sign that reads "free the whites." an objective that very much appeals to lincoln. when lincoln appears in the shirley temple film, his task has nothing to do with freeing black slaves. instead, he is there to grant shirley temple's request for freedom for to imprison white men. 's request for freedom for to imprison white men. one, her confederate father. the other, a kindly union officer. if you know the premise of john ford's young mr. lincoln, you might recall that henry fonda's lincoln has virtually no contact with black characters. his real work and involves helping to white brothers who had been falsely accused of murder and in the most dramatic moment of the film, the two of anrs faced the wrath angry lynch mob then lincoln turns back of the mob and after that, melds a successful defense of the two brothers so that he

again liberates white men from confinement. yet, and a very halting and hesitant sort of way, some new dealers acknowledged the possibility that race played a part in keeping people down in both the 1930's and 1860's. lincoln's attention to racial emancipation did merit some attention and consideration. when the african-american singer marian anderson was banned from performing in the daughters of the american revolution concert hall here in washington, many figures and fdr's fdr's administration, including eleanor roosevelt, helped to arrange anderson's new open air concert in front of the lincoln memorial. rolealso lauded lincoln's in striking the chains of

slavery from marian anderson's ancestors. thisnk the timing of concert is particularly important. it is april, 1939. it is a moment of growing awareness of nazi is a -- not -- nazism abroad. singersmparing jewish i stageanned from a naz and anderson being shunned from the dar hall, one person pointed out the crucial difference between hitler's germany and roosevelt america. in washington, we have a shrine for abraham lincoln. in this more explicit acknowledgment of lincoln's role as an emancipated, including his work in freeing those of an

oppressed race. take a new poised to role as the 1940's begin. he appeared with increasing frequency in hollywood movies and broadway plays. he figured as the central 1941ct in aaron copland's lincoln portrait, celebrating american spirit in the aftermath of pearl harbor. he featured greater prominence in fdr's speeches. not surprising because roosevelt hired lincoln dramatist robert sherwood as a speechwriter. it was the civil war, not the revolution that was used most often in world war ii propaganda. lincoln, notage of that of washington or jefferson that flashed ritualistically on the silver screen.

associations that throughout the 1930's had connected lincoln to fighting theery helped turn him into type of symbol that warren remembered. it suggested that lincoln had come to embody a certain type of moral energy that could galvanize americans in a new global conflict. i should say at that moment, americans needed that kind of motivation. 1940-1941, there were many who remained deeply cynical about the devastation of world war i, deeply cynical about engaging in any further foreign entanglements. in this context, timely reminders about lincoln and his commitment to emancipation helped people recall a moment when a true moral purpose guided

americans were objectives. i'm just going to say that i am borrowing from another scholar. there is a literary scholar who develops some of this point. literaryowing from a scholar who talks about the way lincoln is used in the lead up to world war ii. recallings that in abraham lincoln's moral purpose to free the slaves, americans might find an model of inspiration for fighting hitler's. writers and artists repeatedly and explicitly referred to lincoln in his fight against slavery as a metaphor for understanding the fight against taylor and fascism. the office of war information produces a poster that proclaims this world cannot exist half slave and half free. the republican newspaper william white agrees that our great

round earth had become a veritable neighborhood that cannot live have slave and half free. lincoln himself was portrayed as a figure who had a history of fighting slavery that could underscore the moral urgency americans needed in the new global conflict. held up lincoln as a way to urge americans to get off the sidelines when certain principles were at stake. in lincoln's commitment to ending slavery, sherwood recognized the 16th president as a supreme non-isolationist in his essential faith. this made him an ideal figure convincing americans that despite their skepticism about foreign intervention, they should get this themselves -- commit themselves a new two this foreign entanglement.

this presented african-american artists with new opportunities. used in lincoln was wartime propaganda, the more he gave african-americans chance to remind their fellow americans slavery was a historically specific spirits they continued to impact black life in the united states. black journalists saw a chance to urge the roosevelt decision to deliver a consistent antislavery message, the message that recognized oppression based on race, both abroad and at home. it, ifwriter put roosevelt cared about fighting slavery, he would stand by the reconstruction amendments and make sure the girls were not returned to chattel slavery. failing to do so would be no different than enacting laws similar to hitler's declarations

eating. and edicts. would did its best to romanticize this. the movies in the late 1930's 40's seemed to acknowledge that some way or other americans were undertaking the fight against slavery. i would like to my talk by revisiting old familiar film, perhaps one of the most iconic gnomes in hollywood this perspective in mind. it is not usually what we think about is your movie. the film i have in mind is casablanca. it appeared at the end of 1982 was directed by a hungarian immigrant.

a steady stream of movin moviemaking. he made two extremely unmemorable civil war films the santa fe trail virginia city santa fe trail was a poorly named movie if there ever was one since nothing to do with santa fe for a trail. historic jon stewart played by harold and george custer played by ronald reagan. they joined forces pursued of a fanatical john brown. hisond massey traded in lincoln outfit for a john brown outfit. it also celebrates the coming together of white soldiers across sectional lines common cause. in this case it was union

confederate soldiers he noted the west late in the war in order to fight some bandits. the details should not be explored to deeply. also a film about the asian. not about unifying nazis and allies it is about bringing together the different skeptical way and victor laszlo played by paul on ride, the unity that is achieved when rick discards his cynicism and understands the need to take a stand against nazi oppression. there is a suggestion of the civil war's relevance to current events. remindsnited with elsa her about the last time they saw each other in paris. >i remember every detail he says .

gray.rmans wore you wore blue. the color scheme is important. it does not directly say the confederates were not for the cause of freedom. it is more subtle than that. it is not a simple divide between you and slavery, but this evolution from indifference to commitment. it is the process by which rick dedicates himself to the anti-nazi cause. journey is meant to reflect a larger american journey, how it became necessary to break with the isolationism of the interwar and accept the need to fight this new war. one critical step in that journey involves giving the new war a strong moral overlay to make clear the new fight was about principle, not material

gains. as i suggested, no figure better symbolized moral conviction in wartime that abraham lincoln. not to worry. i am not going to convince you abraham lincoln shows up in casablanca. i know that he does not. his spirit is there. nothing illustrates this so clearly as the moment when rick's competitor asks if the cafe american and sam are for sale. respond? ick in the language of abraham lincoln, i don't buy or sell human beings. this line, perhaps more than any other reveals the ethical underpinning that signals rick's transformation, his willingness to take a moral stand. i think it is no accident that he uses the same kind of

anti-slavery language being used by the office of war information and robert sherwood. it is very likely that the author of humphrey bogart's anti-slavery pronouncement was koch, a casablanca screenwriter. even though lincoln himself does not flash ritualistically across embodiesn, casablanca the moral urgency that was being used to get americans behind this new effort. this lincoln was once again, or at least in spirit, being .eimagined and reinterpreted in some ways, this may be a lincoln that inspired a stronger and more passionate addiction.

this was a lincoln who would have an impressive career in world war ii. and even after in the cold war that followed. this was a lincoln who fought slavery et al. and who could inspire a fight against slavery, however that slavery might be defined on a global scale. thank you. [applause] >> love your imagery. imagery and messages are everything. you mentioned some of the writers as america is dealing with its own sense of identity, what it is, who it is, where it is going in that time of where

you are looking at who lincoln is, and they are erecting the confederate monument we are dealing with right now. there is this dichotomy, this tug-of-war in social consciousness. i am wondering where this wave has gone, where it was at the ine, where it seems to be the late 1900s, late 1800s to early 1900s. looking now at the international itluence and impact where had to decide itself even more. it seems coming to grip with one place in your domestic identity, you are dealing with what is happening overseas. you feel you are to be insular. how can you? there is so much going on. >> use the microphone.

[inaudible] there are not a lot of monuments that are being built in the 1930's. a lot of the monuments were the 1920's.1910, in in the 1930's, there is a competing narrative. think gone with the wind. let's celebrate the south and it's lost cause. what is very interesting to me about the 1930's is it is a moment when you can see two ways of thinking about the civil war, a perl lincoln point of view more clearly in contention with one another. there are clear lines being drawn, definite differences in how people are talking about the civil war. that is a very interesting thing that is going on in the 1930's and 1940's. the point about the international situation is definitely true because trying

to understand for franklin roosevelt to understand how the u.s. fit into this whole new world dynamic and trying to actually establish american prestige in the fight against not seasoned, it almost necessitated this idea that you had to address the problem of slavery, the problem of racial oppression within the u.s., and certainly african americans making that point very clearly. i think one way that roosevelt and others tried to address that idea is by making lincoln into such an important symbol, by suggesting there is a history of racial oppression in the u.s., but then there is lincoln. we have a shrine for abraham lincoln. there is a possibility of combating that racial oppression in american history.

>> think you for being here. father,talk, i heard healer, shrine. for a time i have thought about lincoln being assassinated on good friday. does theon is, attention to lincoln become nearly religious, and what would lincoln think about that? [laughter] >> thank you for reminding me. in the 1930's, i don't feel it has a strong religious overlay. there is a way in which the movie young mr. lincoln and's on -- so i think it is possible lincoln has always had those associations.

i don't find the particular 1930'sthat emerge in the to be strongly religious. overly almost say secularized is the kind of lincoln you get in the 1930's and 40's because he is put in concert with current events. that might be different from the lincoln that emerges in the 1880's and 1890's. i think because lincoln is so often discussed in the same , itth as current news items has a way of secularizing him. i don't feel the religious part comes out quite as strongly. >> thank you very much. toi loved hearing you refer robert penn warren. i got to interview him in 1977 as an undergraduate. you mentioned offer kazen and

aaron copland. why don't you mention richard hofstadter, who was a follower of joseph stalin. he is very influential and lincoln studies because of that dreadful chapter e-book -- he wrote on lincoln. in 1946 10w foreigners novels had gone out of print because the stalinist literary community had disapproved of it. where is stalin in the 1930's and 40's? >> i'm not sure where to put him, i guess. >> he is there, definitely. stalin did not want philip randolph marching on washington in 1931. he is there.

>> ok. i will think about that. thank you. did am curious, when perform,roups start to when did they start to grow, and when did lincoln's name begin to the use in many different laces? >> my impression is you can find clubs with his name, schools and towns. that is all happening immediately after the assassination. is monuments and statues are later. maybe the 1880's and 1890's.

the lincoln memorial is 1922. , i guess ikind of should say my remarks are not meant to say that he is being ignored prior to the 1930's. he is being recognized, honored, celebrated. i think there is a kind of switch in the 1930's in terms of less talk about lincoln and moreg and healing, a figure of power, a figure who the mostrepresents consolidated power of the american government. that imagenk you had earlier of lincoln, but i do think you have that in the 1930's. yes? >> there is an even more subtle

reference to lincoln in casablanca. rick ran guns and fought in the spanish war. that was the lincoln brigade. [inaudible] >> microphone. you are not at the microphone. he ran guns. >> i thought of the lincoln brigade. you would wonder if that was almost subliminal. people would have known that reference at the time. >> i will go back and look at that. thank you. to questions, if i can remember them both. southernf the segregationist democrat politicians say you are using lincoln as a simple, and after

the war, this is going to cause us a lot of trouble because all these black soldiers are going to come home? what about us now? voters were solidly for fdr. he was a god in georgia and alabama. do you think he overestimated that the south would turn against him if he took even the smallest steps to improve civil ?ights >> i am going to have to remember. i think roosevelt was very conscious of not alienating the southern wing of the democratic party. i think that did inform his decision about the anti-lynching bill coming through congress. i think southern democrats, there was a lot of tension in

that relationship. in 1938, roosevelt goes on this campaign to encourage more liberal white politicians and in the south. mitchellke margaret come down like the wrath of god on fdr. they say this is just like reconstruction all over again when the federal government tried to interfere with everything. it was a very tense relationship. it was not like anything fdr did was great. i think there was that problem. the question about southern democrats and the use of lincoln is complicated. i think it was not so easy to simply dismiss lincoln in the 1930's. you cannot say he was a tyrant and all this. there were certainly people who did that. i think if anything, what southern democrats tried to do

is just not talk about lincoln. for example, one thing i found interesting was douglas freeman, the biographer robert lee. he spends a lot of time leading up to world war ii and during world war ii trying to turn robert e lee into a relevant figure for americans in the second world war. he talks about his military strategy and other ideas and plans he has. at oneuglas freeman point writes this essay, antique knowledges that lee is an important symbol. so is abraham lincoln. the power of abraham lincoln was so much that even somebody like douglas freeman had to moment,dge that at this the historical figure who seems most relevant to what we're doing is abraham lincoln. >> fdr being overly cautious, if you look at his results, it was the same in those states.

people might vote for segregationist congressman and governors, but they adored fdr. >> i think you are right about that absolutely. one more? yes, i do have one more. >> this was a wonderful talk. i always thought fdr embraced jefferson more than lincoln. connect the two? i always felt that jefferson was more in the forefront than lincoln. >> jefferson was definitely important. fdr spoke at the dedication of the jefferson memorial in the 1930's. 1943. thank you. it is not as if jefferson was being overlooked. he does take opportunities to infuse jefferson things he talks

about. trying to think about moments when he connects the two. i don't think so. i would say lincoln's relevance to current events kind of elevated him for roosevelt. and for many other people. not just in the new deal administration. when i think about popular culture, jefferson is not there. , is it ishink about to smith goes to washington? it has the big scene. there is a way in which the rose above jefferson for that moment. thank you. [applause]

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the initials kkk right here on his chest. embroidered across his beret on his head were, knights of the ku klux klan. on his hip, a semi automatic handgun. he was followed right behind him by the grand dragon. dark blue suit and tie. when the nighthawk entered the room, he saw me, he froze. mr. kelly bumped into his back. the guy stopped short. they regained their balance. i knew what they were thinking. thinking, they got the wrong room number or this was a setup. an ambush. i would like this to display my hands. nothing in them. i stood up and approached him. hi, mr. kelly. come on in. at 8:00 eastern on c-span. >> 1944 documentary "d-day to

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