again, you can watch the trump re-election rally in orlando on child support agency at 8:00 p.m. eastern. now the conversation on cannabis policy from today's washington journal. >> you probably know rick steeves as a travel writer. guide boca writer. you may know that he advocates legalization of marijuana why did you get involved in this work. >> i've seen how europe has dealt with its drug problems. ever since the 1990s. i thought it doesn't make sense we lock up people for recreational use of marijuana.

so i've been outspoken on that. i'm certainly not pro marijuana. i'm pro civil liberties and pro smart policy. and we've got a policy now which is as wrong minded about marijuana as our prohibition against alcohol was back in the 1930s. i'm just working as we are doing across the united states to take apart the prohibition against marijuana one state at a time. in 2012 i was a cosponsor and lead spokesperson for the law that legalized tax and regulated recreational uses marijuana in baxter state. with colorado we were the first states to actually legalize marijuana for recreational use. because of that i have a personal insight into how it works. so every two careers i go on the road and talk up the wisdom of taking the crime out of the equation and dealing with marijuana as health and education challenge and civil liberty. >> you're on the road in dc what

are you doing in d.c what are you mo meeting. >> i have a busy schedule meeting with legislators interested and should be more interested in moving out of the state by state legalization realm and into the federal realm. i think 47 states now in our country have some kind of legal marijuana. and the federal government needs to just wake up to the fact that this is going to be more of a confusion and a clkting situation with legal businesses in one state, and illegal in the other state, and this is how it works in our country, the way i understand it. states are incubators of change. that's how it was it was with prohibition of alcohol. the federal government doesn't say it's a mistake. state by state we legal i see eyed alcohol, first beer, then hard liquor, then even home brewing. we are doing the same thing with marijuana. and we have a track record. so i'm just really excited to after work -- in 2012 i worked in washington.

2014, oregon, 2016 massachusetts and maine. 2016 michigan. winning in all those states. it's time to tell the federal government we have a track record. we know you are nervous about this. but the -- the numbers are in. you can listen to cherry picked statistics from both sides. but the numbers are in and it's time to reconsider the insistence on of federal government of criminalizing marijuana and legal size. >> before rick's busy day he chats with us and chatting with you on phone lines a little bit dirchts this this seeing fmt you support legalizing marijuana. 202,074,888,000 if the number to call if if you oppose. 2,027,488,001 is the number is you call if you are start daulg in now. who is jerry on jim french's kiro radio show back in the late 80s. >> jerry. that was me. i was asked to represent the responsible local businessman

who smokes marijuana back in the 80s in seattle. and i thought, yeah, i believe in this. i believe it's a big lie that decent people are lying to their work mates, friends at church, to family about their enjoyment of marijuana. and i wanted to talk on the radio in seattle about the responsible use as an adult of marijuana as a -- just a way to relax and have fun. so i went on -- but i wasn't bold enough to go on asterisk steeves the local businessman. i went on as jerry and thought i was in incould go knit o. the next day i was going to work and swb rolled down the win and said jerry rb right on. >> people have been ahead of the curve politicians. and i don't need to be jerry. >> charles is up first from jones borrow, arkansas, as those who support the legalization. >> i got a.

problem with the way they are rolling out marijuana in arkansas. $15 a gram. you buy an ounce it's $5 break. $395. and people are hurting and sick in pain. and this is being done to them. this is not being done for them. the governor let two distributaries start. and the southern part of the state. people have to drive so far to get it. it's not a concern about the traffic. they're not concerned about the safety of people. i mean -- or the hurting people. this is a disgrace what's being done to arkansas. i thought it was going to be something good. i expected something better than this. >> well, okay. jerry we have to be patient and remember different states are more nervous than others. and every state writes the law according to what they think will pass in their law. and legislators in the states tweak the laws to make them more smart. i know when we legalized marijuana in 2012 in washington

state we got a if you things wrong. and then the legislature tweaked it. colorado had to learn to package it smartly in the interest of kids -- children safety and so on. each state is struggling with this. but you got to remember, can you complaint about the new laws but the alternative is poem getting arrested and having lives derailed because they are caught with a joint in their pocket. what motivates me to get out and talk is a race issue. it's not rich white guys it's por people and people of color arrested. to this day, i mean in 10u9d we have six hundred thousand or 700,000 in jail for non-mienlt marijuana -- no 70,000 in jail and six or seven thousand people a carrier arrested for non-violent marijuana overs. it's a flatout racist issue. i hear people complaining about the laws. but for me it's a huge step is to move toward legal sayings

where we stop locking up people for marijuana. it's a serious problem as i mentioned to john earlier i'm not pro marijuana. it's a drug needs to be taken seriousry and carefully regulated but right now we have a booming black market in some states and highly taxed regulated market in other states. you can't wish it in which. it's going to be here. is it a black market that empowers and enriches gangs and organized crime or is it highly regulated highly taxed legal market like in my state? when we legalize marijuana in 2012 it rivaled apples as the number one crop in the state. . all going to gangs and organized crime. today a billion-dollar legal industry employing tens of thousands of people, highly taxed. our government in washington state got $300 million of tax revenue last year not because more people are smoking pot but because that wasn't going to gangs and organized crime. to me this is a huge success.

and it's again not bus more people are smoking po .. it's bus the business is there and we are taxing and regulating it. and an added benefit of that is we have credibility nowically it comes to talk about the real problems of drug abuse and focus on the opioid crisis and oh oh son. i'm sorry in arkansas they have things you don't like. but we are moving fitfully forward. i'm in washington, d.c. today because injury it's time for the federal government to relieve us all ofciyness state by state and recognize it's time to reconsider the prohibition against marijuana. mayor lagarde yackia back in the 30s in new york said in a society has ha law on the books it doesn't intend to enforce consistently, the existence of the law erodes respect for law enforcement. that's what we have. chaos, inconsistent laws appear and it gets worse because we are not able to roll back this rising tide of -- of sensible

marijuana policy from the states and i'm excited that the federal government is seeing now might be a good time to reassess the ration. >> becky on that line from texas. deck becky go ahead you're on with rick steeves. >> yes i'm just totally appalled at all of this. they groip and gripe and groip about the smokers, the secondhand smoke. and the medical costs. well what are we going to do when all these people are smoking all the marijuana what about the medical cost. >> we're talking about plain jane people smoking plain jane cigarettes and now we have thousand fs people who want to smoke marijuana. well tloeft if it was controlled there wouldn't be that much medical problems. but now were just thering it out there. everybody here tp. et cetera all smoke and get sick. now the democrats are going to

raise the cost of medical insurance. and force that medical insurance on everybody out there. >> becky, i think you are living in the misconception that a lot of people are that there is a whole reservoir of decent people that would love to ruin their lives smoking pot if it was legal. but in your state like mine people who want to smoke pot do. we legalized the six years ago, and smoking rates have stayed roughly the same. and teen rates have absolutely not gone up. if you legalize in texas, it's going to stay about the same. and teen rates are not going to go up. i know that because that's a fact. you know what your feared of because that's a hufrmg. my governor was not in favor of marijuana and he was electsed the same day we legalized. today six years later he is so thankful we legalized marijuana because, again, we have a track record. use stays roughly the same.

duis don't go up crime doesn't go up. teen use doesn't go up. what we could is we take a thriving black market industry and we regulate the heck out of it, tax the heck out of it and we have more civil liberties. it's also much nicer not to arrest people of color like we have done in regards to our war on drugs in the past. so the whole -- the whole basis of your complaint becky is the assumption that use will go up when we legalize. and use will not go up. there is never a society that has seen a correlation between how strict the laws on marijuana appear how many people spoke it. in europe the most liberal country of all, the netherlands smokes about half the european average per capita. it's counterintuitive i know but what i'm telling you people who want to smoke pot do and do it as criminals or as law-abiding citizens in our country depending on the is a it. >> lake else more, california. stanley on the line for those

supporting legalization. good morning. >> yeah, i'd like to start with kim reynolds out of iowa, the governor just recently vetoed the iowa medical expansion. and about that i'd like to say is any allowed five businesses -- huge businesses to go ahead and grow a certain amount of cannabis with low thc for iowa. and thoses companies can do whatever they want. those guys are kun around and say i grow weed all day long and don't get arrested. but if a little guy on the streets in iowa like me who got caught with 13 grams, which is a small handful of cannabis, i was facing 37 years with a mandatory 15-year sentence. for non-violent cannabis in iowa. and there is two reason that is cannabis is illegal anyway. there is only two reasons. one reason is that the companies have to get their hands on it and make sure they take control

of it 100% so that they can get all the profits and they can control it. the second reason is because it will make people think outside the box if they take a puff and they don't want us to do that because they want to make sure we're inside their box. the other thing. >> we'll let rick steeves focus on that. >> well, you know, this is -- this is the nature of the beast when we have a prohibition. the odd thing is somebody can be arrested in your state, and do hard time apparently. and in my state somebody can invite friends over and have a party and instead of drinking wine you can smoke a little marijuana. as i said for six years in washington state it's been taxed legalized and regulated. it's sort of a cross between an apple storen a a pharmacy. and very strict -- you know, in our state it's so ship sap because people need to have 100% compliance to all the

regulations. and not -- not to be in good with the government but to be in good with the banks to do their banking. and it's a very tightly organized situation in a state that's legalized properly. you look out my window -- i look out my window ever morning and think wow here is a state where marijuana is not an issue. it's old news. boring. grandma is rubbing it on on her shoulder. titus lost sexiness. teen use is going down in my states. not an issue. and in other states people are up in arms and people's lives are being ruined, people are angry at this and that. there is two ways to approach this. >> it was an issue for former attorney general jeff sessions. what did he change about guidelines for enforcement or prosecution when it came specifically to marijuana? >> didn't he derail the koll memo. there was a memo from the federal government saying that we're not going to get in the way of the states own oversite

sight of their laws as long it doesn't leak outside of that state, you know. and states were very thankful for that. then they had some sanity and stability and could proceed with their laws. this is a serious issue. i mean the people i work with in drug policy reform most don't smoke pot process. they care about their community. there is a racist, de -- a lot of it's demoralize be, the police force is giving parents and teachers less credibility talking about the serious issues of havard drugs. this is a very serious law. and it's debated long and hard by people dedicated to the well being of our communities. when we passed marijuana in washington state we had the federal prosecutor appointed by a republican president onboard with us as a cosponsor. we had the president of the bar association, we had the children's alanes in our state, several hundred organizations whose mission is dedicated to helping the he will being and

safe safety of children they sported legalizing marijuana. state leaders whose reputations were on health and family wellness and so on recognized the most dangerous thing about marijuana is when it is illegal. because then a kid with bad discretion can be caught with a joint in his pocket and he can't get into school. he candidate get a job, can't get a loan. that sends him down the wrong track. john after we legalized marijuana in washington state. i swear i've never been hugged by so many big black baptist pastors. they were so thankful we took the crime out of the equation. because they cared about the raf ajs of the war on drugs to their community, not the problem caused by marijuana. that's why the naacp endorses these issues. the naacp looks out for what is good for the african-american community. and of course the drug problem is a huge issue in the african-american community. and they endorse legalizing taxing and regulating marijuana

smartly because they know that the most tragedy thing about marijuana for people struggling is the fact that it's illegal. >> about ten minutes before the house comes in for the day taking your phone calls with rick steves as we discuss marijuana legalization. siel as on the line for those opposing marijuana out of rutland, vermont. good morning. >> good morning. thank you for taking my call. in vermont i went to several sessions and testified both in front of a house committee early on with this and also at the governor's commissions held around the state to various meetings. and the -- there are some issues where marijuana hasn't really been studied that much because of the illegality of it which is an issue. and what i advocated for is because of the smoking, even the california proposition 65 has -- you can go online and find this -- where it shows that marijuana smoke is a cause of cancer. well, the smoke contains methen

ol formed hide pan 33 other carson jenns. known. it's not filtered typically when someone moeks it. there is a health consequence. but then the black market exists which is what a lot of the -- dsh a lot of the elected people -- which rick is staying you still have the big black market that's going to be there. what we are doing is replacing the black market with the legal market. but they're not labeling the packaging with any carson jenn warnings or anything like that. there is pros other than smoking in the extract area because you can control the dosages. you still eliminate the black market. and -- but then there are additional cons where some of the commission hearings there was some people that ran some companies that were heavy equipment companies relative --

and it was a question on legalization and whether or not this would be a right of employees to be able to use this stuff. and some heavy equipment -- high cranes heavy weights a dangerous work environments really want, to be on the ball 100% and not be drug users or have any influence of this in their bloodstream which thc has a for a prolonged period of time with different effects on different individuals . >> thank you for bringing this up, these are point i deal with every two years when i go around the united dates helping legalize marijuana. i don't support a legalize marijuana bill that does not respect employers writes to have whatever standards they want in their workforce. do path i think generally allows employers to have whatever standard they want to have in their workforce and it makes a lot of sense for the reasons you said. if it's true that marijuana causes cancer, it's not grounds for making it illegal for it's

a civil liberty. if someone wants to eat something that's not healthy for them or if someone wants to smoke a cigarette, that's a civil liberty and it needs to be studied are educated and labeled appropriately but i don't buy because of the fact it causes cancer we should lock people up for smoking it. mentioning how the black market can still be thriving, different states have to finesse the tax rate to find out how much tax revenue they want and how much of a black market they want. if you really want to get rid of the black market you have to have less taxes. if you want to make a lot of money you have to have more taxes but then it makes street marijuana more competitive to legal marijuana. we were a little greedy in my state on the tax and i think oregon learned and went less greedy on the tax so they had less of a problem with the black market but this is what the dutch called the gray area. for 25 years dutch have not arrested a pot smoker, they've

never dealt with the backside and what the united states is doing which is really bold and innovative and complicated is dealing with the whole mass production and distribution and backside of the whole retail business. it's tricky. we are learning about it but what we are up against is the ppp, pot prohibition profiteers, it would be better for their bottom line if we kept marijuana legal. it seems petty that any corporation would want to make something criminal, so decent people get a record or go to prison for so they can make more money but that's what's happening right now and i don't want to get into all of that because it sounds so negative but there are pharmaceuticals and big beer companies that are always spending money against me, funding the opposition. every two years and i go to different states i'm up against opposition funded by pharmaceuticals and companies of all sorts and types that

make money by keeping marijuana illegal. i'm in this again for civil liberties to end of recess policy to turn a thriving black market into a highly regulated legal market and get rid of a failed prohibition . >> five minutes before the house comes in we want to get you to a couple more calls, to her home state of olympia washington travis online for those who support legalization . >> good morning and thank you for c-span, i was a medical card holder in the state of washington in 2008 when i first got mine and then when they first started making you sign up for the registry and, a lot of people got spooked as far as now the government has me on the registry. and then one more point i wanted to make was the problem, you said they've made $300 billion i think last year, the

problem in the state is the state is not telling us exactly what they are spending it on. they said they would spend it on things like education and things like that but they have not been putting it out to the public, what we are spending the money on. >> thank you . >> thank you travis, when i was working hard in washington state to legalize marijuana, there are just regrets of critical establishment but now we know when we legalize and i want to stress that the numbers are there. it's roughly the same and it might creep up a little bit but road safety stays the same, crime tays the same now travis was talking about a medical registry concern and a lot of our opposition in 2012 was not from the right, it was from the left, from the medical marijuana industry because they didn't want all of the encroachments on the world they had in the status quo, they

wanted to open it up to legalize it. so if we could just break out of the prohibition we won't have all the nervousness people have for medical marijuana. as far as the $300 million raised every year in tax revenue , it's a billion-dollar industry a highly taxed and is earmarked , legally earmarked and goes to where it's supposed to go i've read the policy papers from the government and it's all right there people know where to look for it. i really like the font -- the fact that states get the right to earmarked this money for whatever they want. i was in michigan and they wanted to make sure veterans got a cut of the money raised so they could work on ptsd syndrome and veterans health and they wanted to work on a drug awareness program in public safety and they wanted some for the general fund and some for the education so they earmarked that an anticipated tax revenue that way it's an

exciting opportunity they have to take the money went to gangs and put it into what they think is best for their community. >> those who oppose legalization ? >> okay. this is a print from readers digest on marijuana alert the brain and damage from 1979. this doctor who conducted a study of the thc exposed babies that survived acted differently from others. they didn't seem to have normal brakes on behavior, they showed deficiency and attention, the kind of subtle behavior, characteristics of marginal brain damage and early development. all young people who smoke pot should not have children because of this danger . >> okay don't tell that to my children, they graduated from

notre dame in georgetown and i think the fact that i smoked pot was an advantage for them but that's a whole different discussion. i'm afraid if you're reading readers digest from 1979 on an issue as complicated as marijuana and drug policy, you need to update your material. we have a whole society wired by a generation of began to. our government has spent billions of dollars confusing the public because they are trying to keep marijuana illegal. our government is manic about keeping marijuana illegal. we've made a trade sort of agreement where everyone has had to sign it and if any country dare legalize marijuana, they have to have a trade war with all the signatories of the bill, it's scary for a small country to try to take their crime out of the equation. when you hear the term decriminalize that that is sort of like afraid to legalize because if you technically legalize you could get in

trouble in the united dates. i was leaving a hippie commune in denmark, my friend said be careful with your marijuana in denmark is every year we have to arrest the cup pot smokers in order to maintain favored trade status . >> i couldn't believe it . >> if you legalize in another country you will have trade consequences with the united dates. it's hard for our country to implement that now because 47 states have some kind of legal marijuana right now but our country has been so aggressive when it comes to wellness. in europe my friends tell me society has to make a choice. tolerate alternative lifestyles or build more prisons. in the united states they remind me we lock up 10 times more people per capita and we do in europe, either we are inherently more criminal or there is something screwy about our laws. i think there are things a

scree about our laws and we've had a lot of callers say there's hearsay in the skies gonna fall if people smoke marijuana. people smoke marijuana already, it's not an issue of a pothead society, we have marijuana in our society and he can be a huge legal market or an exercise of civil liberties and smartly regulated. we are here in dc today because it's time for the federal government to listen to what's going on in the states and in the war on marijuana. next the advisory board member for the reform of marijuana laws, we appreciate your time this morning. thank you, john. it's nice to be here. washington journal mugs are available at cspan-2 online store. go to c-span store. org and check out the mugs and see all the c-span products.

tonight, president donald trump holds a rally in orlando florida, officially launching his run for a second term, watch live at 8 p.m. eastern on cspan-2 the online@c- span.org or listen live on the free c-span radio app. next, a discussion about the role china plays in the middle east as well as the potential for the operation between the u.s. and china. president trumps policy in the middle east and the relationship between israel, iran and china. at this event hosted by the atlantic council. hello everyone and thank you very much for taking the time to come here to the atlantic council today. were very happy to host this informative discussion. we have a very critical timely question, and even a more