american history tv products are now available at the new c-span online store. go to c-spanstore.org to see what is new for american history tv and check out all of the c-span products. all week we're featuring american history tv programs as a preview of what's available every weekend on c-span 3. lectures in history, american artifacts, reel america, the civil war, oral histories, the presidency, and special event coverage about our nation's history. enjoy american history tv now and every weekend on c-span3.

>> watch the national book festival starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern. our coverage includes interswruz rouge bader ginsburg in her book "my own words," david treuer, sharon robinson talks about her book, "chifld the dream. rick atkinson and thomas machll. it is saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern on book tv on c-span2. >> up next, a discussion about the apollo spacesuits 50 years after the first u.s. moon landing. panelist is including designers. the space museum was the host of this event here in washington, d.c. >> we've assembled a panel of speakers, a really fantastic.

some of my favorite people i like to talk to when talking about spacesuits, to recount the making of the apollo spacesuits and to inform us on the lessons that we have learned as we are going back to the next spacesuit in the next thing in spacesuit development, be it going back to the moon, going to an asteroid or going on to mars. in order to save time for tonight's program, i'm going to introduce all four speakers and they're going to come up and tell their stories and then we'll have time for discussion and questions from the audience at the end. our speakers tonight in order of appearance are first bill airy, who is a recently retired test engineer at ilc dover, the company that made the apollo spacesuits and the suits that astronauts use to space walk from the iss when they leave via

the american port on the international space station. the next speaker for tonight will be ryan nagata, an artist and maker from california who did a sort of unique approach to becoming a maker and model maker. he started out as a film director and discovered that he -- his real passion was making models, props, and costumes for hire. they're featured in many movies. ryan will talk about his experience of re-creating some of the vintage suits that were used in the movie "first man," the biopic about neil armstrong. and then the third speaker was a russian lead spacesuit designer at the company in the ussr in russia. and he is -- has come to this country and participated in spacesuit glove designs and won

the competition of the spacesuit glove design. he now has a company of his own based in brooklyn and he is going to talk about his perspective on spacesuits and n. light of his career as a russian spacesuit designer and engineer and an american spacesuit entrepreneur. our last speaker for the evening will be dr. david newman who is the apollo professor of astronautics and everything nearing at the massachusetts institute of technology. and she's the one of the few people i can say has a better job title than i do. really amazing. dr. newman will talk about the next generation of responsive materials for spacesuits to make these form fitting spacecraft truly a perfect fit for

exploration. i'm going to interduroduce our t speaker. he's going to talk about the apollo spacesuits. >> thank you for that wonderful introduction, kathy. it's an honor to be invited by this panel. it's quite a panel. i thank you all for coming tonight. so let's start with the slide presentation. i have, like, you know, five minutes to cover 40, 50 years of history of apollo. i'll make this pretty fast. i try to do it as best i can. i start from the humble beginnings. this is very early ilc spacesuit developed by len shepard developing suits at the time. he saw a need to support the vision of humans working in outer space. len shepard was an ils engineer working on the helmets. you see the helmet in the photo. they were use fod for high altie suits. he realized the future of humans

in space is not far off. but he could see that the tl is only b.f. goodrich with the flight suits. but there is now true spacesuits out there. this is early. we're talking 1950s. we knew that humans were going fly into space. so he proposed the company that they provide plumbing for developing such a suit. this funding is split ultimately about 250/50 through the 1950s and early 1960s. by 1957, i just want to say that he was hired and a few others to help carry that torch to next level. i mentioned george. he was quite an inventor who helped carry the suit noechlt levto the next level. the next slide here, this is our first entry into the apollo contract. so through the 50s and early 60s, it wins the contest for

this suit. many of them didn't really have a suit. they had a design. they had ideas on paper. we were one of the few that had a true suit. bf good rich also had a suit. but as fate would have it, we were teamed as a subcontractor. len and the others at ils were thrilled when he announced the man on the moon returning safely to the earth. they felt that they had the solution but unfortunately for them they recognized that the small division of the play tex corporation which is what we were had little to offer in the way of systems engineering and quality liability thus they teamed us with hampton standard, an aerospace company. it was the right decision ziven all t given all the thought that went into it. we had engineers that could build a suit like this but to have the rigor that nasa was looking for, it wasn't going to happen the way we were set up at the time. so the ils suits, nasa's period

between is the 62 as we were working with this subcontractor between '62 and '65, the easterly you suits had a long way to go. the basic design is taking shape. if you can imagine how comfortable it is working in that suit, not very. is the knees and shoulders and elbows had very good mobility. but when you tried to put this big helmet on it, it increased the size of the bulk of the torso section across the shoulders. it just really made for a bulky suit. again this is the easterly zwrajs zwra stages of apollo. that is the way anything happens, right? you design rockets and the hard twhar goes with it. you have failures and you have to explore along the way. that's what was happening.

so second contract bid. the company president just told me a story about the fact that they would design something and hamilton would want to test it and test it. and it wasn't -- you have to test. trust me. i'm git that test things. but there say point where you call it quits. he didn't know what -- hamilton didn't know when to call it quits. that is part of the problem. there is also the part on hamilton to take the business away from. ilc. they were bulky but nothing you want to wear for a long mission. hamilton pursued that.

they thought that helmet idea was okay. they took the helmet business away from us in order to free up our engineers. we didn't see it that way. we were making money. you are going to take this business away. that didn't it is well. finally in february of 1965, hamilton announced nasa that they would be dropping ilc from the team and they would be working with bf goodrich on future suit designs. they started b.f. goodrich in design different joints. they were a little nervous. they have a contest to decide who the winner would be. now at this point, keep in mind, gemini suits by david clark were having success. they had a couple suits. they had problems. they had serious problems with overheating and mobility. they had a groundwork. something that was flying anyway. in nasa's mind, they thought, maybe david clark will be the suit to go to. but hamilton team and they thought okay, b.f. goodrich and david clark will have a contest

to run off and see what would happen. so ilc went to nasa and protested saying, you know, we really got a short end of the deal here when you forced us to team with hamilton. but we understand. we want a second shot at it. nasa agreed. they learned their lesson on. that they said okay you have six weeks to put the suit in. so for six weeks around the clock, you know, we had a handful of people. we had engineers and se seamstresses. it turned out to be the winning suit. they didn't have good mobility. there were a lot of issues. even our suit had issues. they were issues we knew could be fixed. when you design something new, you develop it. so that's -- you see this suit was a lot more form fitting. it was tailored, it was a suit we wanted from the beginning without the hamilton engineers telling us thou build it. it ended up being the a 7 l

lunar suit. it started out as ax 5 which is what you saw previously. we eventually made the 7-l suit. they did an outstanding job. hit poor waist mobility though. when they were getting in the command modules, they had a strap to pull to pull the waist together. the arms were not very good. there were a lot of problems with it. and then we get to the model a-7 lb suit. in 1968 before we flew apollo 11, we had the engineers go to houston in september 20th and present this suit. at the time we called it the omega suit. it provided increased mobility. can you see the side view of the suit. there is a zipper. it comes down from the chest and goes across the back. it was a zipper that was a spiral wound zipper. it held it airtight in the suit. it freed up the waist section so

we could get mobility in the waist joint. they could sit in the rovers and provide a lot more mobility. we also added a new arm design that they liked. so that really did it justice. it was first presented in 168. at the time they were look forg t looking for the hard suit. they wondered if they wanted us to give them any more work. they liked the suits and immediately asked ilc to certify the arm design so the first lunar crew could have the arms. they expedited the certification process and in late april we began work to remove the arms in neil armstrong and buzz aldrin's prime suits and replace them with the new arm configuration. this was accomplished by the first week of june '69, a few

weeks before the apollo mission. we would constantly get suits after checks and put new zippers in them. this was quite a turn around to take the prime suits for the missions and rip the arms off and put new arms on with the new design and we just certified weeks before. so you could see what our troops were going through at the time. quite a bit. in 1976, our company had downsized by that time like 25 people. because we put all our eggs in one basket. we didn't have fwhig left us in. we ran out of gas. there is no other contracts for apollo. so we were down 25 people. we knew if we held on we can win the shuttle contract. we did. and we knew at the time again that we didn't have the resources to do this on our own. so at that point hamilton came us to and we came to them. i didn't know all the specific details. waits agreed, hamilton said, look, you establish yourself as a space suit provide we are nasa. and we think that we should team

up and we will not tell you how to build a space suit. we'll be out of the space suit business but a prime contract. and we'll do the management, you know, configuration management, systems engineering and support you. we just figure at the time 25 people had, you know, that was about our only choice. we said yes, let's do. wended up winning that contract which we've had. of course, it's the international space station suit now. our history is constantly evolving. we had 21 suit designs. more than 280 suits. i talked to a couple engineers. we're a little over that. but it's just the roll of the dice. hard to keep track of the suits, designs, and numbers. but that is a rough number. we built for nasa. we have the suit that was worn in space dive, the junk he made from 25 miles up. we built that suit for allen

houston and no loss of life or any mishaps due to any space suit assembly. we had minor things happen but nothing that caused the mission any issues on the moon, for sure. and that provided like 440 evas and 3100 total eva hours. there was some issues with suits with the primary life-support system. it wasn't our suit. so ilc, we have a use in office. we're developing the next generation suits. focus on light weight design, less hardware, reconfigureable to fit more diverse group of astronauts. it's like soft upper torsos. can be reconfigured in sizes. the suits are zindesigned for planetary use. we have a lower torso used for extra activity in lower g or put

a softer torso up there. so you'll have more lower torso mobility. knee and ankle flex and good fit. the complete design verification by the end of 2019. one of our engineers talked to dave today and i think he said the suit was completed. the design verification test this week. so that's it. thank you very much. i'm going to turn this over to my good friend. >> thank you, bill. >> do i click? there we go. sorry. hi. i'm ryan nagata, i'm an artist and maker in los angeles. i'm noenl for making extremely accurate replicas of spacesuits.

the suits you see in this photo aren't real. they're replicas that i made for a photo shoot. there are no photos of both astronauts on the moon. so this is not real. and just to prove it, that's another one in the same photo shoot. and that also never happened on the moon. i make all these spacesuits in my studio in los angeles. this is an a-7 lb model suit that i made for a client a few years ago. i fabricate everything for these suits from scratch. silk-screen the patches and pattern out the fabric pieces. i machine the metal fittings for them. i even cast replica neoprine convolutes for the suits. not to hold any pressure but to make sure the suits are the right shape. as can you imagine, it's taken a tremendous amount of research to

make these suits as accurate as possible. there is familiar face there. i was doing some research at ilc a few months ago. the pieces make are almost indistinguishable from the real thing. this is an apollo bubble helmet i made recently. it's blown polly carbonate. it's almost a real helmet. i guess the real question is why do i do all this stuff? i used to work in hollywood as a director. but i would always make a lot of props and costumes for films and tv shows.

he commissioned me to make him an apollo suit that he wore on episode on the show. and ever since then, i just had lots and lots of requests to make replica suits for private collectors and museums and also movies. this is allen bean, apollo 12 astronaut who is wearing a replica that i made. it is high praise from him. allen was also a great artist. he was always looking at the forms and proportions of things.

that's a suit i made for my daughter. i don't just make apollo suits. this is from 1934. this was the first pressure suit and i made this for the stafford air and space museum. that is actually also a photograph i staged. that's me in that suit. the real suit was on display here. i'm told it will be there again. this is mercury suit i did for a film. gemini suit that i made. sometimes i want to do stuff from science fiction. this is william shatner's space suit costume from star trek. the helmet was missing. so they used that costume helmet on an episode of "mork & mindy"

and never saw it again. this is the real suit but missing the helmet. i fabricated all that just from watching the stills of the show and everything and doing a lot of research. that's kind of an interesting little thing. that is allen hustus. he donated the suit he wore to the museum but he wanted a lep ricka of it. he asked me if i would do one so i made this. it has a lot of the real components on it. i can can't take credit for the whole thing. the reason i'm probably here is because of this suit. this is a replica of the x 15 pressure suit. the real one is on left there. and i made this for the neil armstrong biopic first man last year. this is the coss assume that ryan gossling wore when they

re-created one of armstrong's flights. i was also a -- i made a number of other things for that film. i was also a suit consultant. and helped with a lot of things. just because of all the research i've done, i get called to advise on these sorts of things. so i did a tremendous amount of research for that suit. this is joe angle who is the last living pilot of the x 15 program. he was a technical consultant on the film. and he just absolutely loved the suit. he said i got it completely right. and he also said this was his favorite suit that he ever wore if you know joe angle, he trained for apollo. he wore apollo suits. he flew on the shuttle. he has worn a lot of pressure suits. he kind of had an emotional moment looking at that suit again. just those moments that have made this line of work that i'm in really very rewarding. so anyway, that's it for my

intro. so i would like now to introduce nikolai. >> i'm the lead designer and chief engineer from brooklyn, new york. we found a company and after getting a prize for a competition. two people. [ inaudible ] so my background, i'm a spa spacesuit designer.

i work on spacesuit design all my life. and i tested russian and a lot of american spacesuits. so on the picture, the color picture that's me. and i designed that suit. i have four patents in design and technology. i got green card as a scientists and last year i got american citizenship. [ applause ] so my business partner

[ inaudible ] we created a company and we have new space suit design. >> we make space suits and the last contract and this year in 2019 we wanted for moon space boot design. so let's show the assembly. and the elbow joints outperform mobility and bend and torque more than two times. so we build spacesuit gloves for mars in 2015. so we have mobility for that

glove. they're unique and metacarpal joints. and our material -- [ inaudible ] it's very, very effective. so we have unique mechanical counter pressure design for gloves and assembly. and six nasa tests tested that glove. and that's technology for the

future space exploration. so we have a team and we are based in new york city. we have unique service we provide spacesuits experience and 450 people test our spacesuits. we have spacesuits low profile for the glider and more aircraft for high altitudes. so our intervehicle activities spacesuits have very low weight and high mobility. our spacesuits are only sold on

american soil. and high adjustability and that suit on the picture is 17 inches in height. there is an opportunity suit. and we [ inaudible ] the suit is tested for more than four days and 140 priabales. so our spacesuits tested in the chambers and flight simulators and we passed oxygen testing. nasa support us and with spacex

agreement for certification of our spacesuits for all space flights. so in 2008, five people, four men, one woman in a few days tested the souguit for skydivin and it was for high altitude jumps. water express in april 2019. it was second class and connecticut and survival systems and together we integrated a company. so that's -- we have a spacesuit

and escape from an iron capsule and woke up to water. so we're working on extra vehicular activities and spaceship prototype. and we have a plan to do the same in the business model for the space suits or intervehicle activity. that's the test class will be in october. and the canadian space agency. and we are going to make a lot of things with that suit. so that's not the only space suit. that is a prototype. so my spacesuit design on international space station but

the suits have a long way to do that. so thank you for paying attention. i will introduce david newman. >> hello. how is everyone doing? what a great evening. i'm thrilled to be here. bill, ryan, nikolai, kathy. this is an amazing national brain trust of spacesuit knowledge and design and history lesson, i think, for all of us. so it's my great plushure to be here with all of you. and i'll dare to take us into the future a little bit. so spacesuit is the world's smallest spacecraft. the spacesuit equals spacecraft. all right? these are my apollo bloopers.

the reason like to show these is because we're going back to the moon. we've been there. and we had this amazing suit. can you imagine that 50 years ago and i do have the honor to be the apollo program professor at mit. and i've been waiting 50 years. we have to get back there. now we're going there to do a lot of science this time. again, world's smallest spacecraft spacecra spacecraft shrunk around a person. it is heavy. it's not very mobile. hard to do your science. that is the current nasa suit that flew on the shuttle and is flown for 19 years now on international space station. we have the build space station. we're going a lot of experiments out there. amazing amount of science. you take all the systems of a spacecraft, provide your pressure, give you your oxygen to breathe, you have to krub out the carbon dioxide and worry about thermal temperature control and now you want the

person to stay alive, be safe and get their work done. and on the right, that is actually a nasa going to gas pressurized look at some future designs. these are big bulky gas pressurized suits. you're in a balloon. that's good, we're applying pressure but they're hard to move against. so i'm a researcher. and we like to flip the design paradigm. so rather than sl sh rinking a spacecraft around a person, what i f. i say this say person and i study athletes and say what if i can design a suit from the skin literally, the skin out, a second skin suit? that means you kind of shrink wrap someone. you saw the earlier work on mechanical counter pressure. we still have to provide pressure. it's a pressure suit. and we need a third of an atmosphere. spacesuits provide about 4.3 pounds per square inch. depending on what units we want to talk b but about a third of an ounce here.

that is the design goal to reach. about a third of an atmosphere. and so in our research, we are going to the moon. i can't wait to get there. it's been 50 years. let's get on with it. and here's some of the design and we're going to get on to mars. we'll become interplanetary. earth is my favorite planet, mars number two. it's round trip. you're going to come home and want to see your family. i love to think about pushing the technology and the materials for the suit of the future. so to do that, we study astronauts, students, my students grou w up and become astronauts. we look at full mobility. to the millimeter precision level. so everyone gets their own suit. we don't have that issue for not enough suits for everyone. it has to be custom designed and built. we have the technology. so why wouldn't we do that? and what you're looking at here, a little bit of the math for you. these are -- this kind of circle pattern that i have.

if you put circles all over your skin and then move, that circle would turn elliptical. my blue circle turning into a green ellipse.

>> it's fantastic, they look like that. why is that so exciting, it could be a huge breakthrough thinking about the designs. we don't put the radiation protection suit, because it makes it massive and bulky to live under the ground and lava tubes, but i need my astronaut sunlight and mobile there's new materials on the drawing board. we are putting them into

threads, if you give me something that has radiation protection i can put it in threads, that's the future that we see as lightweight astronauts. a lot of people continuing, inspired by by the museum, what an incredible job to get. 's the only suits back from all of us to look at. going to keep it short and looking forward to can a, thank you for your attention. >>

>> our final slide is growing not only the spacesuits are coming more diverse, but millions are appealing to a diverse audience, and trying to introduce them not only to the new technologies, but the fact thursdays hidden stories throughout our museum that we are going to tell spacesuits are not just about astronauts. they are about engineers, and technicians. one question just to start this off, spacesuits in the program tonight is the role of testing. that is a role that comes up repeatedly, and perhaps bill you can start off.

as the senior test engineer. what is the role of testing and how it important is it in the spacesuit process?>> it's everything. you start apollo out, you have design ideas, every engineer has an idea on how to make an arm or leg work. the suits are a 3.75 square inch. they have a lot of pressure loads and there. you can flex your elbow and if it flex great. that's what they did, they would certify the suits by doing these motions. maybe halfway through the rubber would fail or something, so they would have to start over again. are present president mentioned earlier that he contributes a lot to my understanding of what happened.

he said when you're down there, we were scared to death, because we needed to see when things were tested, as much as they could be tested in the lab they would break things and fix it and break it, and fix it.'s on the lab the suits work fine. they make sure the they hold pressure. they do all of these things piece by piece. when you walked down the ladder he was scared to death because that was the first test of the suit. because you have the full environment that you can never duplicate duplicate on earth. testing everything. he loved to try to break the suit, and his goal was to break that suit in the lab. he didn't want the suit to be broken. he would get the suit and he would tear it up. at this idea of jumping up as he came down so we can maybe

get down to reach the lock on the surface, because they didn't have very good mobility. he figured if he can do that he might be able to break it and he did. he broke a couple cables. go redesign the knee. he did redundant me cables so we kept on doing it over and over. it was getting a little crazy, finally everyone realized that on the surface his ability to jump was irrelevant, and it didn't take that long for nasa to realize that. on the way to the moon on one of the missions, john was assistant engineer and said, we just broke another cable in the suit, and they said stop, stop testing right away, you are done because they realized we were over killing this thing. i can go all night but i will stop there. testing was everything and we

still do it today in my lab. in that lab there was guys we hired to test the suit to put new materials and it. to find suppliers. we are stuck with the suit we have we put new materials and from different suppliers. with you certify all material. we certify all the materials and suits to make sure they are holding up. that is my short long answer. >> i have another question, then we will open it up to the audience. we were constantly at the museum talking about stem. science, technology, economics, and mathematics. what is the role of design in the aesthetics to spacesuits? this is considering the prospect of sending humans out for a long-term human

spaceflight long-term exploration that may take years or more. what do you think the role is of design and aesthetics? >> the arts are in you all to the stories you tell the history . it's critically important because we have a whole new generation of them out there. i want to get back to the moon. to the important to widen the field. i talked to a lot of kids and they say of course it's for you. because they have to see themselves and they have to have a sense of belonging. has to be diverse and it has to be inclusive.

they helped to the numbers for the apollo orbit. we're not hidden anymore, so for all the kids out there you don't have to be the best in math and physics and chemistry. you read people out, that's the wrong message. is them every day, but is a getting people is it helping with climate change? i feel it though, we just have a few minutes, owes the biggest

stumper? what stumped you in the early designing of the suits? >> with the initial spacesuit design, what was the biggest showstopper? what stumped you most about making spacesuits? >> it was mobility and comfort. those were the biggest things. when she read the evaluation process that came out of the policies, the feedback was there's more mobility. >> how much does a spacesuit cost? >> it's hard to say, because we don't build a suit anymore we build parts of suits, today we might have a pair of lungs go out the door or a pair of boots.

>> the most expensive part is the primary license. >> a pair of gloves my to take three months. >> >> that includes if you hundred. >> i'm just curious you know when you look at the spacesuits they look like cloth. i am really amazed by the actual fabric layers. >> the but when you look at a spacesuit it looks like cloth.

the question is how many layers. i want to thank everyone, on july 16, you will see the suit that has been digitized, preserved and there is a new high-tech case. we will have available images of the x-rays that we have done in the suit, you will be able to see what a magnificent machine it is. it is not work close, that's my own personal plug. you can go on and talk about layers and composition. >> there something called a liner, and you keep adding those up then there's five layers of the thermal

properties of the suit. they all look white, because at the outer layer that's the macromedia garment. it's mostly white for design reasons. there's many multiple layers. >> there is probably about 21 in the apollo suit. >> you can be more mobile. >> the gentleman in the blue shirt. >> did you worry about dirt interfering with the seal? >> did we worry about dirt getting into the seal? >> there is a number of concerns

with the zippers. we all decide number zippers in suits. the zippers worked if you flexed enough. we replaced through a book called lunar outfitters. in the book it's not out yet. i talk about neil. i think three times replaced the zipper, they were fine on the missions, but there's always concern about them clogging up. they were constantly closing zippers that ended up being a real issue. at only zippers, but they disconnect and stay clean somehow.

>> i was wondering what the time restraint will be, and how long it'll take with the time. >> what kind of time restraints would they have on them? >> first of all it is and take eight months to get there. hopefully we are going there to search for evidence of light. typically use eight hours, you to lunch, and it's going to be there all of the equipment. you think about that, it's a long work day and they are

going to have to work for many repetitions. the first mars mission was say what, for people. all of human history in the last of years, we have done just over 550 spacewalks. we will bring that on the first mars mission. >> what is this the engineer design? about low-density, and some life-support system will not welcome that, and more critical issue, so if you 250 fuel, you have 300 problems.

we have to configure much less. the spacesuit is more critical issue. >> i was just wondering in modern-day safety designs, today counselor when the tasting -- testing differences, when do they consider that?>> when did they start making accounting for gender diversity? in making spacesuits and manufacturing spacesuits? >> in our current interview we looked at the heart of his torso shell. it has a site bearing openings up top and can restrict to

reach out front, we have a medium large and extra-large size we found the smaller female astronauts, we could incise them properly in that suit, so i think the next generation with to look at that, these folks have comments on that what they're looking at, but yet accommodate for that. >> you think away they flex the extension, all these things have to happen and they take a beating to design that. you have that mobility upsizing across the shoulders. >> everyone should get their own suit.

>> i was curious what still needs to be done. it before it can be used it's tested. >> >> it's imagine if you've gone into your suit there a big back hatch on your suit so you get in and easy to address the new close that out. you has been vantages so they

go together. there is pros and cons to what's known as a -- i don't talk too much, but when you can to spacesuit that a low pressure, and to make sure you don't decompress or get the bend. this goes with the pressurization of the suit. a lot of technology and are ready to go. two it's been researched and developed it's not baselined in any mission that i know of now. interesting engineering solutions. >> he were a helmet wears

eyeglass lenses were grounded to the service of the helmet. is that an unusual thing? he said it didn't work, is that on a regular basis? >> he said that his eye glasses prescription were ground into the helmet. is that normal? is that a one time? >> i'm not familiar with that. to be a lot of work to try to get it home to customize for astronaut. it could be right, but i don't know. we have time for one or two more questions to join in. and all the research you've done to re-create with accuracy what did you come across that you are surprised by and said why did they do it this way?

>> did he come up he was puzzled by why the engineers made it this way? >> usually is the opposite, i would wonder why just looking at something, why it was done that way, in the process of re- creating that, i would understand, it's kind of interesting, because you're retracing the steps of what the engineers did, i don't think there's a lot of record of these things. i know between the two, there is a diverter valve knob that controlled the amount of air that they were pumping into the helmets. notice these cutouts on the knob were much deeper. i noticed looking at them and museums, and then i realized you can grab the knob better, at some point some astronauts

that i can't turn this knob. i see stuff like that all of the time. he will call me and say this piece of hardware has this or this, i to stop and look at the details. >> the design is interesting. >> one last question and i'll have to give it to valerie. >> i wanted to ask ryan another question for ryan, with all of his research, does he have his own vision of what the next suit should look like. >> i don't make real spacesuits, i may costumes, that's all ideal, i do notice this funny thing with spacesuit

design. the first suits are always in a way that they think they should be like with science fiction. really don't have to have them be silver, but the legend of the silver fabric on the table said that looks really cool, that should be for a pr, that should be what a suit looks like , over the course of the apollo they got rid of that. don't need that, and i notice with the martian, the suit looks a lot like david newman's suit. the first things are what they think they should be, i know it will evolve into what functionally it needs to be. that's the exciting thing is seeing what naturally develops. i don't know. >> i would just like to think our panelists we could be here

for hours but unfortunately the house is we cannot. please join me and thinking. >>