>> good evening everyone. i am tally a evans. i am part of the public affairs team here at the kansas city public library. we are thrilled to have you here tonight. we have harry laver have our speaker. this is the

latest of the u.s. army general command college. we have been partnering with them since january, 2008 and our programs get more and more popular every month. as you can see, we are down here in kirk all and our brand-new chairs. just because we could not fit you all upstairs. >> it doesn't matter the topic. tonight's discussion about the liberation of paris is no difference. harry laver is professor of military history and specializes in the american civil war and world war ii europe. he was a fulbright scholar. he spoke at west point and at a military college, so i will not keep you guys any longer. let's welcome harry laver. >> good evening. >> good evening. >> thank you to the staff at the kansas city public library. is this not a great facility? >> it is one of the jewels of kansas city. we are very appreciative of the

relationship we have with the library, and most of my colleagues gathered here will attest this is one of the great opportunities we share to speak at the library. thanks to you as well for coming out. what a nice crowd. in the past, i have spoken here. i see familiar faces, which is great. we appreciate your support coming out as you have all those times. how many of you have been to paris? >> i have nothing to tell you if you have been. how many of you have been to paris recently, say in the last 75 years? >> it looks like

just about everybody. well, if you haven't been, the time we have got together tonight, let's go to france. let's go back to france in the summer of 1944, more specifically august 7, 1944. we are going to meet the man we see in the jeep here, a smile most of us recognize, general dwight eisenhower, commander of all allied forces in western europe. eisenhower was in france on august 7 to establish his advanced command post, his headquarters. he was going to move the permanent

headquarters in london over to the continent on september 1, but he was there in normandy to establish an early headquarters, and advanced command post, as i said. now since the day, which had occurred two months before, allied forces had not moved as rapidly across france as anticipated, but a couple of weeks before this time when eisenhower is there was the success of operation cobra. british, american, and allied forces began to work the way across france. now, as eisenhower and his staff studied the maps, the arrows and markers that trace the

progress of their units across france, their eyes were drawn almost involuntarily like a moth to flame to paris, the french capital. the city of light. paris, the city that world war i veteran spoke of with something of a sly smile and a wink. (laughs) but that was a paris of another time, another generation. at this point, paris was an occupied city and had been occupied by four by the summer of 1944. well, eisenhower and his senior commanders we see in this photograph were not the first allied officers to think about the city of paris. even before d-day, planners were already thinking about what do we do

when we get to paris. and the plan was when we get to paris, we will not move directly into paris. instead, we will bypass the city and encircle it. they thought about things like difficult streetfighting, high casualties, both civilian and military. the distraction away from the real objective which was going to be the german army and moving directly into germany, and the possible destruction of many of paris's great architectural wonders, as well as sustaining a city of 4 million people. estimates were that it would be 4000 tons a day of supplies for food and fuel for the survey and population of paris, 4000 times that would have to be diverted from eisenhower's military

forces, and so with those factors in mind, per lemonade planners decided we will bypass paris. well, of course the americans and british were not the only ones thinking about paris. the germans had also been considering what to do about paris, especially since they occupied the city in the spring of 1940. adolf hitler had made it clear after june 6, when allied forces landed in normandy come that paris was going to be held, and it was not going to be surrendered to the germans. well on august 7, the same day eisenhower was in normandy setting up his headquarters, this man was named as the commanding general of paris great good luck or horrible luck, depending on how you might look at it. he had extensive experience in the war, including overseeing occupied cities. he was known as a tough

guy in the german army, and he was hitler's hand-picked choice to oversee paris and ensure that it remained out of allied hands, so from that day on august 7, he began organizing the 20,000 or so german forces under his command to ensure that hitler's decree was going to be carried out. and, of course, the french had been thinking about paris, always thinking about paris, for paris to the french was more than just a political capital, more than the economic capital, more than the cultural center of france, paris was the spiritual center of france, where the french soul resided, even when the city was under the heel of an occupying military force.

and this man, general charles de gaulle, had emerged almost by default as the leader of those french who were unwilling to bend to the nazi regime. after leading one of the few counterattacks against invading forces in the 1940, charles de gaulle went to london and broadcast over bbc radio what became known as the appeal of june 18. charles de gaulle issued a challenge to frenchman everywhere to continue the resistance against the nazi invaders who had now become occupiers, to continue their resistance against frenchman and france who had surrendered their independence and dignity to cooperate with the german forces. he called on frenchmen to rally, as he had assumed the mantle of free france. now, the truth is that charles de gaulle

had not been elected by anyone. he was essentially self appointed as the leader of france at the time, but in the four years from june of 1940 when the germans invaded to the summer of 1944, most had come to recognize charles de gaulle as the leader of free france. one significant exception was the american president, franklin roosevelt, who did not like charles de gaulle. roosevelt was not alone in that, but roosevelt continued to remind people that charles de gaulle was not elected, in the united states could not recognize charles de gaulle as president without a democratic process. we can identify with that to a degree, but despite roosevelt's reluctance to recognize charles de gaulle by the spring and summer of 1944,

as i said, most had accepted de gaulle as their leader, including the various resistance factions in france, and there were many. there were many, but they had decided to set aside their political differences for the moment to present a united front against the german occupiers, and they collectively became known as the french forces of the interior, or the ffi, and they acknowledged fair for the moment fairde gaulle for as their leader. in france, and more specifically in paris, over that summer of 1944, tensions begin to rise in the city, especially after the day when the allies landed in normandy. on june 14, bastille

day, the french equivalent to our fourth of july, and paris, spontaneous demonstrations broke out in parisians started to display the tricolor, the french flag, prohibited by the german since they occupied the city. by the second week of august, rail workers went out on strike, and parisians begin to notice that civilian workers from germany, along with the uniformed women of the wehrmacht, they were starting to take trains heading east out of paris. equally noticeable was in courtyards across the city, there were german government official documents

burning, sending ash like confetti over various regions of the city, unmistakable signs to the parisians. then on august 14, the paris police went on strike as well, 15,000 paris policeman, all of them armed, it did not show up to work that day. this certainly had to be disquieting for the occupying german forces, because there are 15,000 policeman who disappeared into the survey and population with their arms, and there had to be some germans looking over their shoulders at every moment. clearly change was coming, brought by the winds of war

coming out of the west. not long after the rail workers and police went on strike, postal workers joined in, then workers in the paris subway system went on strike, and the strike collectively paralyze the city. and that small trickle of german officials leaving the city, nobody could miss that it was turning into a significant exodus, all again troubling signs for the german occupiers. and then on saturday, june 19, open rebellion, insurrection conducted by the resistance forces broke out in paris. now the resistance was not united in its decision to begin an insurrection. those who were following charles de gaulle advocated waiting, we have to be patient. the allied armies are still miles and miles away from paris, and we are going to

need their help and support, and at that point, word was trickling in from the eastern front, specifically in warsaw, where the resistance in warsaw had begun an uprising against the german occupiers, and word was the germans were inflicting brutal casualties on the resistance workers in the hundreds, if not thousands, and there but the concerns among the followers of de gaulle and the resistance were adamant that now is the time to strike. those followers of de gaulle recognize that they did not join in, when liberation came, they may well have given up any claim to power because they did not join in the resistance. so, the battle for paris was on. scattered firefights erupted across the city like summer

thunderstorms. the resistance forces especially targeted german convoys transiting across the city. and installations they believed they could gain additional weapons. then early that morning, a striking policeman clambered up on top of a car in front of the police headquarters. when he got on top of the car, he proclaimed he was seizing the police headquarters in the name of charles de gaulle and the provisional republic of france. now, their work a couple hundred other striking policemen with him and they moved in to the police headquarters. no resistance from the germans. germans had not anticipated this and they did not have forces available. that evening, in an attempt to bring peace to a city that was erupting in violence, this man,

raul nordley, who was the swedish council general in paris worked to broker a truce between the two sides. he met with the general and the agreement they reached was that the germans would recognize the resistance fighters as regular soldiers and afford them all the rights commensurate with a regular soldier. the germans agreed not to attempt to retake any buildings the resistance had seized. on the part of resistance, they agreed not to attack any german convoys that were clearly leaving the city. they agreed not to try to seize any german strong points. the following morning, sunday, august 20, outside the hotel which was the center for the

municipal government of paris, resistance forces mimicking what the police had done the previous day, moved in and occupied the hotel again. little german resistance to this. bit by bit, block by block, the men were starting to lose control of paris. coltus still had significant military power in the city he could draw upon. really the question was what would the germans do and that might well determine the fate of paris. that same morning, when the resistance easedsiezed the hotel, charles

de gaulle returned to france from his provisional government headquarters in algiers. when he returned to france, he met with general eisenhower outside the town. the two men had met any number of times previously in the war. in late december of 1943, just a few months before this point, they had met as eisenhower was beginning to transit from the mediterranean back to england to prepare for operation overlord, d-day. at that point, eisenhower agreed that when the time for the liberation of paris came, french forces would be the first ones in. now, that time had come, at least in de gaulle's estimation. eisenhower was not so sure. he was still sticking to the pre-d-day plan of bypassing paris. now these two men are really a study in comparison and contrast. they

were born only about a month apart in 1890. they both came from large families. they both were avid readers of military history. they both attended their country's respective military academies. eisenhower attending west point. de gaulle attending just outside of paris. in world war i, their careers the verged in some degree. de gaulle served as an infantry company commander, wounded three times, and left for dead on the battlefield at verdun. he was then taken prisoner. as most of you know, eisenhower was ordered to stay stateside during world war i and train up troops who then got the good fortune to travel across the atlantic into the trenches of the western front. at this point, both of them

knew they were approaching this war from very different perspectives. eisenhower from the united states which all recognized was a world power, ready to take the stage. eisenhower new american history and knew that in the relatively short history of the united states that the country suffered really in only minor ways from foreign invaders. whereas, the gall looked at france and saw them on the verge of disappearing from the world stage as an independent nation. he looked at france's history over centuries far longer than the united states and recognized france has been invaded from the romans and the huns, the english, the germans under the kaiser, the germans under hitler. de gaulle saw himself at this point as perhaps france's last best hope

to survive as a nation. he described himself as a man of destiny. eisenhower saw himself as a soldier with a job to do. and described himself as a man of the kansas plains. so now that man of destiny was pressing that man from the plains of kansas to move on paris. it's too early, eisenhower responded. thede gaulle said with a retort, why is it so early? if allied forces crossed the same river north of paris and allied

forces have crossed the river south of paris, why can't they not cross the river at paris? he told eisenhower at this point paris was fundamental, it was essential to the governing of france at that point and in the very near future. eisenhower responded that he would do what he could, but at this point, he could make no promises of when he would cut loose part of the allied army to move into paris. the following day, de gaulle sent word to eisenhower by de gaulle's senior military commander. what he told eisenhower was information that the french were receiving from paris was that the city was on the verge of anarchy. there was no police presence. transportation had completely stopped. food shortages set the city on the verge of famine. and de gaulle argued that if allies don't move now, they

were risking a humanitarian disaster and perhaps the destruction of paris itself. as it happened a number of times early in the war, de gaulle and eisenhower, two extraordinary personalities, were putting that relationship to the test. bute events in paris would drive eisenhower's decision-making as much, if not more so than de gaulle's urgings. the next day on monday, august 21, that tentative truce that the swedes organized completely fell apart. more radical elements in the resistance forces refused to recognize the truce. the fanatical elements of the german forces, the s.s. agreed and refusing to acknowledge the

truce so the battles were on once again. it seemed victor hugo's les miserables they began to construct barricades out of whatever they could find, abandoned vehicles to stones, tearing up paris'cobbled st reets. a german sergeant told his wife that day, i have a feeling things are going to get bad here. very bad. well, the effectiveness of these barricades, not by soldiers and no rhyme or reason the hundreds that appeared across the city. it is debatable about what effectiveness they may have had in slowing german movement across the city. but, what does barricades did demonstrate was that the parisians were not merely an audience. not

bystanders. they were participants in the liberation of their city. they were contributive to contributing to the liberation of their own lives. as parisians were constructing these barricades across the city, in his office, and the hotel just across the street from the gardens, general coltus continue to receive directives from berlin. two s.s. officers appeared in his office telling him they have orders from their commander, heinrich himmler. to take the famous medieval tapestry that was being stored in the louvre museum back to berlin. coltus told them, well, the resistance has occupied the louvre museum. you are welcome

to go and get it. not surprisingly, the tapestry did not leave the louvre museum. more seriously though was an order from hitler. reiterating his last man defense directive. at that point, coltus put in a call to his commanding officer's headquarters and over the telephone he outlined what he was going to do to the allies make it to paris. the destruction of the arc de triomphe, the opera house, where napoleon is buried, notre dame cathedral, the matalin church. the river bridges. of course, coltus said we'll fell the eiffel tower and the twisted steel will prevent allies from moving through the

city. at truth, he had no intention of doing any such thing. knowing that the phone lines were probably tapped by the gestapo who's very careful in what he said. coltus recognized and acknowledged that paris was one of the most beautiful cities in europe, if not the world. he had no intention to be the man known through history who destroyed all the architectural wonders i just described. his resolution on the telephone was designed to protect as best he could his family that was still in germany. coltus really feared that soon enough he would have to either carry out hitler's directive or he would be replaced by an officer who would most certainly carry out hitler's directive. he

commented to his staff rather jokingly, ever since the enemies have refused to listen to our fuhrer, the war has gone badly. it was now going quite badly the general for the general. he received the order he had been anticipating and fearing, directly from hitler. the strongest measures must be taken against the first signs of insurrection, including public execution of ringleaders. demolition of the same bridges must be prepared. paris must not fall into enemy hands except as a field of ruins. time was running out for general choltitz, and by extension, time was running out for paris as well. closely following the deterioration of conditions in paris as best

they could with the limited information they had where the senior allied military commanders. to eisenhower's right, general omar bradley. senior american ground forces commander in europe. direct american subordinate. to his left, general de gaulle's immediate overall military commander. these men on that morning of august 22, as the truce was completely falling apart in paris, had a discussion and they made the determination that the conditions in paris were such that they could not bypass the city. eisenhower sent word to the combined chiefs of staff, senior american british commanders, his superior officers, informing them of his decision. to eisenhower's credit, he couched this message to the chiefs of staff in a way that precluded debate, that precluded counter orders coming down and saying you are not going into paris. was eisenhower said was, in essence,

if we bypass paris, the germans have sufficient combat power to continually threaten our flanks and our rear. if the germans evacuate paris without a fight, it's ours anyway. so what eisenhower did was make the decision to move into paris, a military based decision instead of one based on political considerations. eisenhower had already given approval for the men in the center of this photograph, the commander of the second french harbor division to be the first forces into paris. the evening after eisenhower and senior commanders met, orders came out for the movement into paris. leclerc's second army division was going to be joined by the

united states fourth infantry division. there would be two to move into paris. one approaching the city from the southwest, made up of the second armored division. the other approaching paris directly from the south, made up primarily of the u.s. fourth infantry with the spearhead of french forces. the following day when general choltitz was receiving his field of ruin orders from berlin, the french second armored division was about 120 miles outside of paris. they set out that morning for paris. 16,000 men, 200 sherman tanks, hundreds of other vehicles all moving in column. a journalist that was traveling with leclerc's force wrote "in the heart of every frenchman here, there is a name,

a goal: paris, paris, paris." by the evening of that day, the two columns, leclerc's force and the u.s. fourth and infantry division, they met minimal resistance. there was hope of germans would evacuate the city. save additional allied casualties and spare paris that has suffered so much misery for four years, all of that heartache. the following morning on august 24, very light summer rain was falling as the two columns began moving forward again. the plan was they would meet at one of the great public squares in paris. that great square that anchors one end of the sound of thesechamp d'lysees and the

other by the arc de triomphe. by the end of the day, neither column had still really broken into paris itself. general bradley overseeing all of this was getting impatient. one of his subordinates said the french are still not in paris. they're dancing towards paris. bradley was furious. he fired off a telegram to eisenhower and sent a message to the fourth infantry division commander. slam onto paris and bypass the french. well, of course, general leclerc and his men have not been dancing with the germans. they had encountered stiff resistance and suffered significant casualties that day. that evening, leclerc was still

determined to get french forces into paris so he found one of his best young officers, a captain, and told him take the small force and get into the city. you want me to bypass any german strong points? yes, get into the city anyway you possibly can. so at about 8:30, he went off with a small force. with the help of the french resistance, wound their way up the avenue, across the river, to the hotel where the resistance was headquartered. they got there about 9:30. he then sent a couple of people over to the precinct that the police had seized some days earlier to let them know american and french forces would be in the city the following day. not surprisingly, word spread from the police, hardly a block away, to notre dame cathedral. its 14-ton bell

that had been silent for four years began to toll, setting off a cascade of church bells across the city, including the even larger church in the northern side of the city. in his office, in the hotel marise, general choltitz was hosting something of a farewell dinner for his staff and officers. when the bells began to ring, a young second lieutenant wondered out loud, what is the meaning? choltitz immediately knew. he said the allies are here. he rang up headquarters, held the phone up so they can hear. he said the french and the americans are moving into the city. when morning came on august 25, the next day, the clouds and rain showers of the

previous day dissipated. many of the germans in the city recognized the game was essentially up. they began withdrawing to the eastern side, almost like a receding tide. by midmorning, french and american columns were moving through the streets of paris almost like rivers of iron and steel. some vehicles with white american stars on them. others with a silhouette of france with the cross of lorraine superimposed over the map. but, all the germans had not left. so fighting continued between german tanks and german infantry and the resistance forces in urban combat from the champs d'lysee, around the arc de triomphe, around the louvre museum. at 12:30, the french

flag appeared above the eiffel tower. we can only imagine what went through parisians'minds when they saw that. shortly after, the french flag appeared at the arc de triomphe as well. french soldiers make their way through the hotel marise that was not that far away. they went upstairs and the first french soldier in challenged choltitz choltitz's response was yes, and probably better than you. (laughs) at that point, coltus surrendered. shortly after, he signed the

documents surrounding surrendering all that remaining german forces there in paris. not far away, a small column of trucks pulled up in front of the hotel. an american reporter working for collier's magazine, man on the right, one or ernest hemingway, got out and with a group i will be generous here a group of french or regular soldiers made their way into the bar where hemingway, by legend, ordered 73 dry martinis for himself and his newfound friends. the celebrations would begin in paris. well, charles de gaulle arrived in paris late that friday afternoon. the

first thing first place he went to was the train station. here's a photograph of him. he's the one with the cigarette. he went there intentionally because that's where general leclerc, who we see to his left, has the army headquarters. de gaulle went there to emphasize the role the french army had played in liberating the city, and to downplay the role of the resistance that was made up to such a significant degree of communists that de gaulle knew he would have political battles with. there is also a young second lieutenant from the second armored division, filippe de gaulle. he was there able to share his moment with

his father. de gaulle then traveled to the ministry of war where he had an office in 1940 before he made his escape to london. there, he symbolically, as well as in a very practical sense, set the wheels in motion for the governing of france once again from its capital in paris. he then made his way to the prefecture of police as an acknowledgment the role the striking policeman had played in liberating the city. only then did he go to where they resistance was headquartered. when he got to the hotel, he gave an impromptu address to the crowds outside. and, this address is arguably one of his more important and effective speeches that he gave in his career. what i hope to do if our technology works is show you a short video clip. less

then a minute of de gaulle's address outside the hotel de ville on the day paris was liberated. he's speaking in french, of course. there are not subtitles, but i will give you a translation. as you watch it, if you don't understand french, pay attention to his body language and the emotion we see from de gaulle at this point when he finally returned to his beloved paris. >> french

>> paris. paris outraged. pair is broken, paris martyred, but paris liberated. liberated by itself, liberated by its people with the help of the french army. with the support and the help of all france. of the france that fights, of the only france, of the real france, of the eternal france. really what de gaulle was doing, i think is proclaiming the return of a freed and independent france, taking its place once again in the world community. as well as getting back to the french

population the pride of dignity of being france. and discounting that french governments that collaborated and cooperated with the germans. de gaulle and this government was the real france, the eternal france. well, that same evening, de gaulle began organizing a parade for the following day. a parade that was to celebrate the liberation of paris, but also a parade to let everyone know, both friend and foe alike, that de gaulle was the leader of france. there could be no question. and so, that next morning, it was a saturday. again, it was a warm, sunny day. word spread across the city that at 3:00 there was

going to be a grand parade. and precisely on time, general de gaulle arrived at the arc de triomphe. this is a photograph of him in front of that paris landmark, where he first placed flowers on the tomb of the unknown french soldier underneath the arc and where he relit france's eternal flame that the germans had extinguished four years earlier. he then set out down the champs d'lysee. leading a parade of his military commanders, general leclerc. along with civilian leaders and leaders of the resistance. the estimates of the crowd varied. de gaulle said there were 2

million. maybe. but, i think we can see in this photograph, there are certainly tens of thousands of parisians who showed up for this parade. as they made their way down to the arc de triomphe, as de gaulle and the rest of his followers approached that city square, fire ring gunfire rang out. sending people ducking in confusion for cover. there was chaos because no one knew where the gunfire was coming from and who was doing the shooting. de gaulle, however, was absolutely unshaken. never absolutely unshaken. never flinching, he continued to move forward across that square to the car

that by design was to take him to notre dame cathedral. when he got to notre dame, he was met outside by city officials, others of his military officers and church leaders. as they began to make their way into notre dame through the main door, gunfire again erupted outside in the square in front of the cathedral, as well as inside the cathedral. once again, de gaulle did not flinch. standing erect, he strode down the center aisle to the altar as others were seeking cover among the pews. where the gunfire came from, whether it was celebratory, where there's still a few germans, nobody knows for certain. what we do know is that when de gaulle emerged from notre dame that afternoon, he had become the embodiment of

france. his determination over four years, standing up to all powers including winston churchill and franklin roosevelt. and his personal bravery that day established him as the undisputed now leader of france. in the days that followed, de gaulle sent a letter to general eisenhower thanking him for the support, the resources and the manpower that eisenhower committed to the liberation of paris. de gaulle to give him additional forces to help stabilize the city. eisenhower agreed to leave the second french army division in paris for a while, but he declined to commit any other military forces to paris

goes as eisenhower pointed out, the germans are still on the eastern outskirts of paris. the war continues and will continue for months to come. but eisenhower did agree to have the united states 28th infantry division on their way to the front march through paris in a parade. so a few days later, the 28th division did just that. they were reviewed by general de gaulle and general bradley, and scores of other military and civilian officials. eisenhower did this, one, to show support for de gaulle. and secondly, to remind regions that the united states parisians that the united states played a pretty

significant role in the liberation of the city as well. well, when eisenhower another photograph of the 28th division. there is video of this. when eisenhower and general bradley visited paris the day after de gaulle's parade, the first thing they did was to call on de gaulle at the war ministry. this was another gesture by eisenhower to show support for de gaulle, to acknowledge him as the legitimate leader, provisional president of the republic of france. eisenhower said i wanted to show the people my support for de gaulle and that i believe de gaulle was the boss of france. that is the effect i wanted and that is the effect i got. eisenhower also told de gaulle on that visit that he was going to establish his military headquarters on

the outskirts of paris, not in the middle of the city. another gesture in support of de gaulle because if eisenhower had established supreme command in the city, it likely would have overshadowed and distracted away from de gaulle's efforts to reestablish a functioning french government. another gesture from eisenhower that de gaulle really appreciated. the relationship that these two men built over the course of the war, and it was not all roses, did pay off even later after the war because both of these men would become the elected leaders of their respective countries and have to work together through some very difficult times in the cold war that was not very far away. so, paris had been liberated. ernie pyles, the famed journalist who wrote about the war from the

g.i.'s perspective and painted for his readers a picture of the filth, degradation and the filth of war, equally well captured the essence and emotion of liberated paris. he wrote "it was the loveliest, brightest story of our time." who deserves the credit for liberating paris? is it the senior military commanders, eisenhower, bradley, general leclerc, de gaulle, who orchestrated the military advance into the city? or is it the french and american soldiers, who drove the last vestiges of german military power out? how about the

resistance? who began the insurrection that really set the table for the allied advancing to the city. in fact, accelerated the allies advancing into the city. maybe a dark horse candidate. general choltitz, who refused to follow hitler's field of ruins order. whatever his motivations might have been. well, for all of you who have been to paris and experienced paris, it does not really matter who gets the credit for paris. because if you have been to paris, what is perhaps most important is paris is still paris. thank you all for coming tonight. (applause) >> thank you. i

believe we've got time for some questions. what i received from the public library and c-span is if you have a question, you need to come up to the mic so everybody can hear it, so c-span can record it. on disclaimer, i'm a world war ii historian, not a french historian. but many of my colleagues are french historians so we can turn to them if you stump me. sir? >> i apologize in advance because everything i know about this, i learned from the movie patton." >> all true. >> you did not mention his name so did he truly, actually play any role in the advance on paris? >> in the liberation of paris. uh

technically, i'm going to have to say perhaps not. in that the forces that moved into paris were, of course, under bradley's command and under the fifth corps commander. so, patton was not really directly involved. hey, it was all a team effort, right? we'll say yeah, he helped out by keeping the germans occupied elsewhere. sir? >> my mother was in the west. she was stationed in paris. i know she was there at the beginning of december because she was given leave to go to brussels to visit her english born aunt and cousin who had been there during the occupation. de gaulle interfered her trip, it got delayed for a few months. do you know when a bunch of telephone operators would be in paris? not obviously a few days

after this, but >> especially for u.s. i don't know for certain. i can't say when. american forces eventually moving it let me backtrack a little. eisenhower's headquarters which he established on the outskirts of paris is actually adverset versailles. that became the central brain for the rest of the allied fight in the war. there would eventually be those kind of support personnel that would show up. i'd expect not too long after he established his headquarters there. that timing, i could not say. >> late september if i remember. >> so we are talking at that point just a few weeks after the liberation of paris. that would not surprise me. thank you. sir? >> yes. general von

choltitz, after he was taken prisoner, my understanding was he was sent to mississippi and he spent the rest of the war at a prison of war camp. can you talk a little bit about what happened to him after he surrendered paris? where he landed and what he did? where he went? >> pretty much what you said is what i know. he ends up in a prisoner of war camp in mississippi. i assume t is released in late 1945. i don't believe he was involved in any war crime trials. probably what he did in paris helped him out. at that point, he disappears from my historical radar screen. great question about what he did in retirement. >> lived in paris, maybe. sir? >> i would like for you to comment on negroes that were in world war ii like

josephine baker? there was a pilot from world war i that was in world war ii too, but i cannot think of his name. >> i can only say briefly, paris prior to the war was a much more liberated city as far as race than much of the united states. josephine baker is an example of someone who did not have the challenges she would have had in the united states. as far as african-american soldiers in world war ii, the army was still segregated at the time. serving in various units. most of you are familiar with the tuskegee airmen, a segregated unit that had extraordinary combat record in flying pilot support for american bombers. a number of african-american veterans from

more walk one served in world war ii as well, but still facing the segregation they had experienced in the u.s. army in world war i. that is the best i can do on that question. anything else? anything else? sir? >> how tall was de gaulle? >> how tall was de gaulle? the nickname that the americans gave him was two meters. he was about 6'6". in the video we saw, he was not standing on a platform, he was simply that much taller than most of the other people. he was quite a tall individual. yes, sir? >> what was hitler's response when he learned that the destruction of paris had not taken place? >> furious. he anticipated that

choltitz was going to carry out those orders, which i suspect for choltitz being taken prisoner, or going back to germany, being taken prisoner would have been the best choice. he was furious. there was nothing he could do at that point. the war was going badly, and it was going to go much worse for him from that point forward. yes? >> i just wanted to make a comment. we were in paris the whole country for a 16 day trip four years ago. you cannot believe how many times we were stopped and said thank you for what you did for us during world war ii. i mean, a lot of times, especially in the small villages. i was amazed. >> which i would concur with that. we here in the united states oftentimes don't have the best impressions of france and the french. i've been to france quite a bit. i got to take some of our students from

the staff college over there. in paris, i have met some rude people. i have met some rude people in kansas city too. >> for the most part, even in paris when i would take undergraduate civilian students, any number of times my students would tell me somebody stopped and asked them if they could help them find what they were looking for. especially out in the countryside, my experience was the same. when you go to normandy, there are american, british and french flags everywhere flags everywhere. about every trip, somebody has thanked the u.s. for their contributions to the war. i confirm your experiences very much. yes, ma'am? >> i was just wondering, does hitler ever actually go to paris? >> did hitler ever go to paris? he did. soon after paris was

occupied in the spring, late spring, early summer of 1940, he went to paris. i will bet you everybody did what hitler did when he went to paris. got your picture made with the eiffel tower in the background. exactly what hitler did when he went to paris. it's the photograph most people go you can find this pretty quickly. you could do side-by-side of your picture there next to hitler. he did the tourist thing. that was the only time he went to paris. the sort of conquering hero and then went back to germany. good question. if anybody has other questions, i will stick around for a little bit. thank you again for your continual support coming out tonight. have a good rest of the week. ..."