plus it was two years earlier. william seale died november 21st. he contributed to many c-span productions, including our documentary on the white house. next, a 2008 interview from our q & a series. mr. seale discusses the president's house, a history.

you have written 1450 pages on material open the white house. what was the hardest part? >> well, i guess the research was the hardest part. also, compressing it for that many pages. compressing the huge story for many things that could be used or had to be dealt with in the senate. i would love to have gone on and on about but i couldn't. it's the process of actually

throwing things out. even with 1400 pages. >> i've got this here, two volume set. when did you first write this? >> the first part of it -- up to president truman's renditions novations at the white house. this takes the story to the end of the first bush administration. >> how did you approach the story? >> the whole story. >> who are you writing it for? >> the central characters of the house and the various people who go there and the various people and their reactions to living there. the development of an institution which president

obama will enter a very well organized institution to serve his work. and you have to look at it that way in the white house. >> if you had to pick a president, this is not a political question, more of a interesting or fun or whatever. which president and his family would you like to have lived with in the history? >> that's very hard. probably monroe. it was an interesting time in american history tv. the period of monroe and the end of the war of 1812. and going into a boom situation. i think the years from 1816 to 1819 would have been fairly exciting at the white house. what would it have been like in the white house? >> james monroe was looked a little bit like george washington. and he was considered like a younger son to the founding

fathers. and he was extremely popular. he was second election one person voted against him. so it wouldn't be unanimous and take the thunder away from george washington. he lived there. he did the white house up because he thought political parties were dead. that the nation was won having finally defeated -- it was on its own. it was going to turn inward. in fact it did in the development for the whole century. and he did the white house up very grandly. the dish is still used in today. and he made his grand progresses through the country and seeing the various areas. no tv then so they could see him. interesting as grand as the white house got, there was a little down to earth.

monroe didn't have enough money to do the tours. they're very expensive. so he would have french furniture he and his wife bought in france when he was the late minister to france. he would sell it to the government and take the money and take the tours. when his salary of $25,000, which was huge then, would come in, he would pay it back. this pattern was repeated a number of times. never known until the next administration caught on and it became a scandal. his period was vibrant. he soon learned there were political parties and there was financial disaster and so on and so forth. it was a brilliant eight years. >> for a lot of people at the end of this hour, we will run our 90 minute -- it's longer than that. almost two hour documentary. i'm going to avoid asking the obvious questions people can see

about the presidents that everybody talks about. and as i read your book we saw some great stories about some lesser known presidents. i'm going it pick one out. martin van buren. i'm going to quote from your book. he actively spent less than half as much as andrew jackson, approximately the same amount as the second adams, john quincy adams, and not half as much. history, never the less will call -- >> brought up the whole issue who spent the most money. >> all. van buren lived in a more elegant manner. he came down and put on a show in the white house.

it was a show. expenses were associated with it. the most important thing he did to the white house was put in central heating. >> and he did that but otherwise van buren spent very little compared to jackson who did a lot. jackson the father, you might say, of the grounds. and finished the east room and bought lots of furniture and things like that. >> what did he do for a first lady? >> his daughter and daughter-in-law angelica was married to abraham and was from south carolina. she was quite a character. big, tall girl. her portrait hangs in the red room. >> and there's a lot of different first lady.

>> the first first lady to die in the white house was mrs. tyler. 1840s. mrs. jackson died just before jackson went to the white house. but mrs. tyler. she was ill when she went there. she died and the president, rather soon, by most standards, remarried a much younger woman. a friend of his children. they only had a couple much months there. but that was very lively in their time. >> how did john tyler -- >> by the death of william harry henry who was the great hero. his election was far more of a common man's election than andrew jacksons.

he lived for 30 days and died. his wife never even made it over the mountains. so tyler took over. he proved more a project to deal with than the politicians. the politicians surrounding him thought they would, as they had with jackson, is expected to with jackson, they thought they were going to tell him what to do. there was a split and tyler changed parties. >> what did his first wife die of? >> i suppose it was consumption. i don't know. she was very ill for a long time. and just sank and sank. i don't really know. >> and he was president for how long? >> tyler was president for, oh, well, almost four years. just 30 days under four years. >> he goes into the white house and his wife dies within about two years. he remarries while he's in the white house?

she was 24 years old. >> yes. she was young. how many chirp did he have up until that point? >> six, as i recall. he had about eight with him. they were still having children at the time of the civil war when he was had quite a family. in fact, his grandson was -- his son, i'm sorry, was the library at the college of william and mary until the mid 20th century. >> i know when we did the series on presidents, we interviewed, i think the last surviving son or grandson. grandson. >> had to be grandson. >> it was, like, because of all these children. >> yeah. he had lots of children. he figured in the civil war period -- >> i read in your book that the story about what happened after he left the white house and move

in. why would you leave the white house and move to the willard hotel? >> to make way for the president. and she died at the willard that night. the first night they were gone. he was simply making way for repairs coming in. he was a self-made man. meaning he probably came from a stable family but he had nothing financially to help him along. he was a survey vor as many presidents had been. and he and his wife were a sophisticated couple. when they built the first white house library, which is relative minor. if you read the titles of the book, they were sophisticated. ever. all the latest books on landscape and poetry and all

those things were in there in history. and so for affecting us even more is the capitol. enlargement of the capitol. no way could it be violated. they were adding out to the side and the original dome came to look like -- there. it was ridiculous. they needed a vertical piece for the capitol to offset that long horizontal. this lead to the decision, you couldn't put a masonry dome on there. state capitols had them. you couldn't put a heavy masonry dome on the brick walls. that's when they went to iron.

copied from saint isaac's cathedral in russia. it was light enough to -- that's why we have the dome. hoe changed the original plan a lot. but it was the avenue -- avant-garde thing to do. he was most remembered about the first bathtub in the white house. he was most interesting character. and sophisticated president. >> new yorker. >> yes. upstate. >> and got the job how? he didn't get elected. >> through the death of zachary taylor. president taylor. he and president taylor went to the fourth of july -- where

billed himself as the child of mount vernon. he was mrs. washington's grandson. he delivered these in this particular one was four hours long. and the sun was hot and the president was old and he went back to the white house famished and ate iced cherries. they lead to something and he developed phenomena and died very quickly. >> what did they do in the white house after his death? that's one of the things, one of the things your book is how much death has happened in the white house. and what they do with it. >> the 19th century, you know, death was very frequent with many family. it happened all the time. you know, you could go out and get your feet wet, i guess, get your feet wet and have them die in two days or a day.

it happened all the time. people were very careful about that. he put in a receiving wall and later buried in kentucky. >> what kind of precedent was set up. what kind of thing almost happened around death in the white house? >> you mean the response? >> i mean, a lot of people have been embalmed. >>well, they all are. not all but in the old days they always were. just like people were embalmed at home. and a president harris who died in the white house was the first. and the officials surrounding him went to darius clacken, owner of a large store in town. and there had been state funerals at the capitol.

so darius just went in and all the mirrors were covered, the chandeliers, all the things like that were covered and the president was dressed in his uniform and actually it was in a sheet and put in the east room and with his dress sword for the next on top and the funeral was held. >> let's go back to this. who commissioned you to write the book? >> the white house historical association. >> can you remember how it started? who came to you and under what circumstances 1234. >> well, i was interested in doing the book. i was interested in building and american houses and about state capitols and things like that. so i got interested in the white house because it's so beautiful. and i was doing some work for the association connected with a film, and pri proposed this and

various officials liked the idea. there was not a scholared history of the white house. and so that's how it started. it started that way and they -- it was a commission order by then. and i had absolutely utter freedom. not one word has been dictated to me by the association at all. >> and now if you publish first in 1988, when did you start work on it? >> ten years before then. '76. i started in the late '70s. >> published in '86 and started ten years earlier. >> yeah. >> how did you go about it? >> had t hadn't been done before. the most important one was published in 1909. two volumes. they mostly came from official reports. fortunately the records in the white house, for the most part, have been maintained carefully. because an administration keeps -- because they might be criticized the by next administration for something.

like monroe. and so national archives has all of that. or as much as exists. there are blind spots but not much. and so i had that and the idea was to do a small architecture in the history of the white house when i later did after that book. but he just the association being the historical nonprofit organization sole purpose to interpret the white house to the american people but i thought there was more to do and so that's went into the documents and documents, and documents and to create this and, of course, i had been going to provide something that would sell like hot cakes or sen sessional book, i would have produced a book rather than a history like this. it would have been 400 pages or something like that. but to tell the story, you have to tell the story. that's why. i'm not apologizing but that's why it's 1400 pages long.

it goes into all that about the white house on varying levels of interest. but centered again in the building. >> one of the things that -- who dow yo you think about sitting down? >> it's strange. history books, i guess because i've been one i'm a historian. i've been a history buff. i would like to think that when my time is up, these books will exist and they'll be 10,000 term papers for kids in school. i tried to write it they could take. and read that part of it and get a picture of life in the white house and an not even very long ago never had anything. and very rare. about the presidency but not about life in the house. so that was one of the personal

motivations is that young people can get these stories. i hate to say it, but that's what they are. out of the house. the reaction to living. the very strange situation. >> you were born in beaumonth, texas. >> yes. what is the short history from texas and alexander, virginia? >> well, texas was a curious place to become historical. it's strange how much thinking back on it i got of a historical character. and my interest started there. i was next to louisiana. i had friends that lived in a plantation. i had relatives who lived in new mexico. and then the oil boom and still people that remember it. all of it goes together.

my father was interested in history, as well. >> he was an independent oil operator. my mother was a housewife who didn't read things. anyway, she would read the romantic novels. anyhow, just what i was interested in. when did you leave there? >> well, i married, i went away to school and then i married in '66 and we lived there for two years and moved. again going east. briefly in south carolina, columbia to restorehouses. i'm interested in that, too. historic preservation. we moved here in '71.

>> i studied history and then i went on to duke university. >> before we come back to this, glen fontaine and alfred lund. some of our audience will go where did that come from? and in wisconsin. well i do restoration work and consulting on restoration and state capitols, primarily but some historic house museums. dear friends from all over the country. buildings that i worked on.

envery interested and creative man, a businessman from madison just went and bought it. he was interested in theater history. had a doctrine in theater history though he was a businessman. and -- and his wife bought it and just said arch thought about it for about a year. they asked me to come in and think about it. it was tough. the curtains were rot ten, cobwebs everywhere. but you got to thinking about it, sure it ought to be left exactly like this. it would please a few carriers but no one else would understand it. they were specific. they spent every summer there. and went back to new york for the season. so i recommended that it be brought back. so everything was conserved. only rot ten fabrics were

replaced. they took layers of cigarette stains off the murals and then -- spent a month every summer and vivian lee and lawrence secretly met there during the filming of "gone with the wind." they were going together but they were still married. >> i notice on the witness it's going to teach. i think there are 11 fellows. you going to participate? >> i don't know. i haven't been invited. they have across the hill on the farm near littleton where no one

ever tell these two people where they live. maybe about 50 miles. but they love them. but over this hill, they built a big center. for this sort of thing. for reading, studying, acting. he died unfortunately a few weeks after it opened. he wanted it to be an ongoing educational center as well as the house. and the house is kept historical thing. it's very unmuseumish. >> let's go back to the white house. any idea how many books have sold? >> around 200 volumes. >> there's a brand new one out. 2008. >> the one you have. >> that sells for how much? $59.95. it takes 400 extra pages additional and revised a lot in

the earlier part that just has been a continuing vibe. researching this stuff. i love it. >> there's no difference in the content. >> why is there two different publishers of the book? >> two different publishers but the association wanted to do a specially designed edition. there is a more scholarly presented edition. and this one is more elaborate. more jazzed up. >> how do you buy this one? >> on the web. on the web. >> we asked during the campaign and the middle of all the polling to tack on four or five questions about the white house. here are the results.

how were you and the first time you visited washington, d.c., and we found out that 41% had never visited but 59% had. 828% visited when they were younger than 17. 18% visited 18 to 29 and 10% visited when they were 30 to 49. and 65 and older -- what does that say to you? >> that their parents took them to see the national capitol. >> let me go to the second question because it would -- when you think of washington, d.c., which building comes to mind of renting america. this is not on -- yes it is. 50 percent is the white house, 21% the capitol, 41% lincoln memorial. are you surprised the white house is 50%? >> yes, i would have thought the capitol because of the dome.

which was a monumental symbol before it was finished during the civil war. and i would have thought that the u.s. capitol would immediately set america. but television intervened since the '50s and beginning of the '50s. and the white house is an icon to the presidency and the president is the closest point of human contact we have in our system. and i suppose that accounts for that. . the man sleeps a the white house. that's his home. i think there's that. the identity and parenthetically and i don't think the white house would exist. i think the whole nation shared his north and south melodrama of his family. people had it in their minds.

it always congress never moved. >> and the question we wanted answered was have you ever taken a tour of the white house. it turns out 19% of the americans have toured the white house. 80% say no. it means what age group and that it's between 50 and 60 million people this this country have toured the white house. that makes sense? >> yeah. it used to be. it used to be a million and a half. it's more restricted now. you have to go by reservation through a member of congress. but it was open. you could stand in line and go through. i've done it myself many times with friends. it isn't anymore but there were that many people that. they clocked how many went through. it doesn't surprise me. >> if you were offered a tour of the white house, which of the following rooms would you be interested in?

oval office is 53%. and the next is the private residence. we're going it see that in the documentary later. the curiosity of. i would like to see with the president lives. and the only thing that surprises me is the east room. it's been seen so many times. particularly since president john who began to use it a lot for press conferences and things. >> here is is a picture of new hampshire's own franklin paris. i want to get back to the stories you have. the story of benjamin paris. and jane and what her years in the white houses were like. and do you remember what years he was president?

>> 1853 to 1857. before the civil war. >> what is their story? >> they had two children. he was a quiet intellectual woman. very smart. >> she lost her son at about 10 and it broke her heart. they had a little boy, about 12, benny, he was idolized by her. there was an image of the two of them together. and on the train, a tape trip after pierce's election, there was a train wreck and the little boy was thrown from the train. and rolled down the hill in the snow and president pierce jumped out of the train and ran down to him. when he picked him up -- mrs. pierce took the unfortunate

course of saying that it was god's punishment of her and her husband for ambition and wanting to be president. and would write letters to the boy. and she seemed doomed to problems. they were close to jefferson davis and his vivacious wife. mrs. davis took it upon herself to bring her out. she did it through the little boy. and jane pierce did become interested and went places and did things and the little boy died. and she went right back into where she was and she never recovered. >> what impact did that have on his presidency? >> except for a rather unhappy home life, i doubt very much. he was in a tumultuous time. he took the -- battles and was represented the old democratic

party. but he coped with it. and had her along. she became extremely dependent and until she died. >> here is is a quote from your book. spoken be awom woman named agnu meyer. who said unfortunately i'm not only one who think she's making a fool of herself by such incessant chatter. talking about mrs. harding. >> oh, yes. that was pretty much an opinion of washington. >> yeah. and a lot of people made jokes about her. she was rather pushy and noisy. >> he also died. >> he died in the white house. >> he died while he was president. >> yeah. there is is a lot of mystery

surrounding it, of course, like every president's death. >> what did they do? >> it was the traditional white house funeral with little less drapery. she didn't want all the mourning drapery. there was a little bit of it in the east room. not a lot. the body was taken to the capitol and returned to ohio. >> and you talk about the oval room on the second floor. and it was wholly illegal what harding did on the second floor. >> plane i whisky. his explanation to friends was this is my favorite area. i can do what i want to but i won't do it at the state partisan house. were he's the only president that did that. cool age and hover were particular in observes prohibition.

>> you wrote about something named jeff smith in the harding administration and charles cramer and you say that jeff smith was ordered back to ohio and shot himself. and charles cramer reside from the veteran's bureau and committed suicide. what was that about? >> they were the first that were accused of corruption in their federal positions. he knew about it. and these were close friends. and they were devastated. but you know harding said that someone asked him something once about his friends and shade his enemies. it ain't my enemies that keeps me up nights. it's my friends. >> i have no trouble with my enemies. i can take care of myi can take care of my enemies all right, but my friends, my god, his gd friends ...

>> keep me up nights. >> but, talk about customs, when you start reading your book, it is very formal, you talk about george washington and he wouldn't shake hands with people, when did that, or why was, that and when did they begin to shake hands with their constituents? >> one of the challenges with the presidency is how to act, frankly -- with washington, of course, it never -- so what they did, they pattern it on what your third did, which john adams had experience with. and washington, being president, was both prime minister and head of state. so the president of the united states -- it became a honed down, and got to be almost corny. the ceremony, with the man standing in the oval, and all that, and when jefferson came

in, adams followed some event, and when jefferson came in, he abolished all of it, only one ceremony did he have, and that was when he stood at the center of the blue room and received a credential of ambassadors, which was carried on all through time until recently, and now it's in the oval office. but the whole issue of how a president should act and present himself to the public, the people would know when they come their, how to do right, and not do things that are embarrassing, goes on, through but it became -- jefferson shook hands, and you go into monroe, it becomes a bit more distant, and sometimes, all through history, it is a bit more stringent, the presentation of the president, a bit more distant but with the people who come, or the whole thing will change, and show a great friendliness. but the dinner table is the basic unit of entertaining at the white house, it always has been.

>> who entertained the most? >> oh my goodness. the greatest numbers would be lyndon johnson and jimmy carter. but weigh in the past, the entertaining, it varied. van buren, tyler, in that period, lots of entertaining. with lincoln, it was arduous, he did not enjoy it much. he had to do it. he was so busy, but they had to state dinners. and the season, which ran from december to spring, where everything was centered around the white house, parties were held, there were receptions. there was a 4th of july reception, there was a new year's day reception, and until the 18 fifties, there was the 8th of january, and rejections victory at new orleans. those republic receptions, open to the public, and the public came, and by then, 6000 was typical attendance. the president's hand would be brews. the first lady usually retreated behind the table or held a big bouquet to avoid it. this was stopped in the late twenties. it got

totally out of hand. and many people who came couldn't get in because the doors will be close and there would be a line out on pennsylvania avenue. so, those receptions, the last was new years, 4th of july was too hot in washington and people started going to the shores, and the last one lasted until 9:29, and was held once more, in 1932. and then no more. >> you mentioned hot summers. who was the first president have air conditioning, and when did it become a central air white house? >> well, to begin with, air conditioning was discovered, if you'd say, at the white house. they were trying to cool the house with garfield when he was dying. so the principle was discovered there. the forced air conditioning in the white house was 1909, president taft, blocks of ice in the attic, it never worked, it leaked, so they gave it up. president roosevelt, franklin roosevelt, had asthma problems, as did

many of those who moved into the house of his staff, because he had his close staff at hand. the korean company went in and put your commissioners on the chimneys, compressors on the roof, and blue the air through grills into certain, these people's bedrooms. so they could sleep at night, in the heat. because there was no leaving in the summer anymore. >> who was the first president to have a working telephone? president hayes, rather ford be hayes. 1879. >> where the many people in the country -- >> he could call the secretary of the treasury, and both of them could call alexander graham bell, but that's all they could call. but they liked it. >> when did they have a wider system? >> it began to grow from then, it grew and grew. telegraphed in an incoming to the white house until after lincoln, in 1866, even though you went unused in another building, it

was a special thing that people used to do, facts machines, go down the hall, everybody -- it was the way of the telegraph. >> i read in your book that kelvin coolidge lived at 15 to punt circle for six months, outside the white house, while he was president, and how many times, i know in the documentary that you are very active, in the documentary -- he talked a lot about harry truman, moving out and all that, but how many presidents had to move out of the right house besides -- and by the coalition about? >> he moved out because they needed more space. and you have a second for family quarters that was all there, even though the officers had been moved out already, because they were built in 1902. so they decided to tear the roof off and ship it in such a way that they couldn't accommodate a -- and that's what happened. and in 1925, they moved to dupont

circle, to the patterson house, which still stands there, and other received lender and all that, and they moved back into the house, third floor was pretty bad for the house, steel and concrete, they mashed it down, they didn't use phil moore's role about the don, the iron, don't they did not do an iron third floor, they did a masonry one, day just squashed down on that, which was one of the reasons why the house had to be reconstructed in 1948 to 1952. they left, and truman moved out for most of his administration, he lived in blair house across the street while it was being renovated,, and roosevelt, theodore roosevelt, and 19 or, two in his 90 they wonder on the white house, did move out, finally, he said oh no, i can stay, here it will be just great, and then plastered us, and after a month, he moved across the street to a roadhouse on lafayette square. so, well, you've got the college or the cleveland,'s

they weren't told to leave, president cleveland marriages ward, a young woman, and he was 47, and he wanted her to have a normal family life, he made that very clear, he hated the press, and anything -- the presses while about her, she was called franky cleveland, and he tried to hide or from ll ofhat, so he built a house out by the president washington the jewel called red top, the reporters called it red top, and they lived there, just like a family, and she had some 30 animal pets there, and they went to the white house for entertainment, and they did the same thing when he was out of term and he went back and was reelected in 93 and he went back and they had another house in washington, they didn't stay there quite as much, but by then they had another child, and the cleveland family lived between these other houses and the right house, but the white

house was still their official residence, which it was not for truman. truman could not live in the house. >> we have a photo from your book. do you have that how many photos you've got in this book? >> 120, i believe. >> here's a photograph of francis fulsome cleveland. you said she was 21 years old? what kind -- of what kind of sensation was that in the country? >> oh, heavens. frankly cleveland. there were fan clubs all over the country! and she went to europe with her mother before the wedding, and when she came back, she had to be secret it to new york, the streets were mobbed to see franky cleveland, she was so popular, and she was very nice and interesting, when the infant of spain came to visit in 93, she wore the famous spanish jewel, pearls the size of eggs, went from her neck to

the floor, diamonds and all this, and mrs. cleveland where a white dress with one camellia depend on the front of it, no jewelry at all. and one of the day. he had a likable nice about her -- he was not much of a public figure, he would take on after you if you got mad about something. >> here's a photograph of mckinley, the reason i show this is because he also that in the white house, not physically, but he was assassinated. what impact it -- what was their relationship, what impact that have on the country when he was assassinated? >> their relationship was not unlike that of pierce and mrs. pierce, they have lost two children, two little girls, and long before -- she also had epilepsy, developed epilepsy and she was a smart, bright

woman, she was the first first lady whoever worked on a salary job, and long before they went to the white house -- mckinley brought the country into the international world with the spanish war. and then was killed at the pan american exposition in buffalo, new york. theodore roosevelt, the vice president, became president. so, mckinley created roosevelt traumatized, with a new presidency. mrs. mckinley lived a few years after mckinley, but not long. she was a very strong individual. but an invalid, basically. >> >> this is a bit out of context, but when i read the chapter on andrew johnson, and i came across the line, ten of his family moved into the second, floor after the assassination of a prime lincoln, we don't hear a lot about andrew johnson, what was that family like, why did a move ten people to the

second floor? >> they were the most unpretentious people on earth, andrew johnson, and his daughter, mrs. patterson, martha patterson, ran things. they were unionists in the civil war, and they lived in eastern tennessee, and mrs. johnston, rector health, taking food to the union people in the mountains, and she was a very sickly woman, and so the daughter took over management of the house, and they moved the whole family. johnson had to wait 30, 35 days before mrs. lincoln would leave, and he has office over in the treasury building, which was, by the way, the windows were draped with the flag that had been at ford's theater, with the gashing it from booth and his spirit, which i thought was. admits lincoln left, and it was torn to pieces -- and they renovated it, but the family lived there, and they were the

plainest, they never had any pretenses at all about being anything grand, though mrs. patterson had been educated in washington, and she had known, ever since the days of polk, she had known the white house. but they all lived there, the whole bunch lived on the same for during the impeachment, and the president's office on one hand, the family in the other. >> which president moved the most people into the white house? i know you have a book on ordinary time about -- who else feel that the white house? >> besides franklin roosevelt, well ... now you've got me on that one. i don't know. >> i mean, were there any of them who did more than others, and ... >> i tend to think of people like the reagan's, we didn't have many people. the carters had a crowd of family they're, living in an, outliving mostly on the third, floor and the sunbathe on the flat area on

the roof. they had a good time. the theodore roosevelt family had many guests, but it was mostly family. and i really can't -- the roosevelt family, the franklin roosevelt family filled the house of because he liked to have staff close at hand. and then, another layer, was mrs. roosevelt and her guests, writers, people like that, who came in. >> this picture, that's from the woodrow wilson -- carry grayson. it's out in front of the old executive office building. he had -- he made a difference, he made an impact. what was? it >> grayson was a doctor, and he also was one of the great horsemen of virginia, he was an incredible writer, a small man, and when woodrow wilson, after the inauguration, there was a dinner, a luncheon, at the white house. one of the relatives, an older woman, fell.

and doctor grayson was one attached to the white house as an assistant doctor ritzy, the white house doctor. there is always a doctor assigned to the white house. since the late 19th century. and so, he was so gentle with her, and nice with her, because she was in a fairly hysterical state, that he was detailed through the family, more or less. he became intimate to the family, and became the white house doctor. he was raised to the rank of admiral, and he stayed there, all during the wilson administration. he was intimate with the family, and no one ever knew the wilsons, and it weather then grace. and he was there when mrs. wilson died, in the white house, in 1914. he was one of the ones who introduced the new wife, edith, to president wilson. he wasn't old and dear friend aviv deaths, and -- he just knew and

-- about the time wasn't married, and they had, altruism's wife, and they had children, little boys, and one of, them when he had the stroke, wilson, one of the children was so close to him that gordon, who lived until recently, was very close to him. wilson would look forward to business from him, and he popped him up, and hid cookies all over himself, when he was so sick, and began to recover, the little boy was attributed by the family and the doctor with being a great help. >> in your research, you just mentioned that someone had died recently, how often were you able to talk to a member of the family? >> now and then. i have to be perfectly honest, in not having much use for white house memoirs. because it is the major part of any person's life, who lived there, and they so often do not drive with the

facts at all about the white house and life in the white house. >> because? >> maybe they don't remember whether you get away, and you make it all one panorama, drop out some details, i don't know. but that's pretty much the way it is. very few white house members have been enormously helpful, they are helpful in little ways, there is a particularly good interview with mrs. kennedy, which i never seen, the lbj library, the texas historian joe france, a wonderful interview. jack valencia did one of the most valuable interviews, i found, on the johnson administration. wily buchanan, the former director, or chief of protocol, was very good. but a lot of times it's just reiteration or, it varies. so i didn't pursue those. i talked to margaret truman a good deal, and she was interested in history. she's like her father. and you want to get things right. but she got things wrong. she admitted

it. she says, i don't really remember if this is exactly the way it was. so i could have made the whole thing memoirs, and decided not to ... >> here's a picture of kelvyn coolidge and his two sons, the story. >> the story, of course, is that president heartening died suddenly in california on a tour. on a speaking tour. and kelvin coolidge, former governor massachusetts, became president of the united states. he was a totally different kind of man. harding was a glamour boy. he was the first president elected by women, because he had an enormous appeal, a beautiful voice. there are recordings. coolidge was a very different sort of man. he was very businesslike, very cryptic, just as woody as he could be. and those were his two boys. >> which one is john? >> john is on the right, and cabin is on the left, who died, in the white house. he developed a blister on the

tennis court and was dead in four days of blood poisoning. and of course, naturally, it was a horrible thing for the family. mrs. coolidge, there, was extremely popular, she was a very pretty woman, her son john said that it was that picture that was representative, they took a good number of pounds off of her for the picture, but it became an image, classic to the 20s. she is a twenties matron. it is not the picture that pleased the family, they had howard chandler kristie, the famous artist, do another picture that looked more motherly. but this one, in the crimson dress, in a way, named the age of the white house. >> hoover, quote, and by the way, as i said earlier, we've talked about a lot of the lesser celebrated presidents on purpose because you spend so much time on our documentary talking about, the recognizable

ones, the lincoln, the fdr, george washington. hoover, herbert over, if ever a man became president purely to serve the public, it was herbert clark who. those were your words. why? why is he? >> he was a brilliant man married to a brilliant woman. and they made, together, a fortune at a young age in mining. they lived in england, lived grandly in england, led a very interesting life. when -- he was a great humanitarian, he fed the belgian people in their horrible time of strife, he's still a great hero there. he was a man who can almost move mountains, he had such -- he had this tremendous ability, but he was a humanitarian and hard. he did not need to make money. and at some point in his life, the early 20th century, he quit worrying about, it and he began doing when he wanted to do, and he was secretary of commerce, and then became

president, and it must have been the busiest white house ever seen because the whole second floor was turned into a series of offices. he would be meeting with people in one when he should be meeting with people in the other, and people met with them said, a five minute meeting with the hoover family was a long meeting. and in the evening, they had to staff all come up and play bridge. and just literally wore people out. they were the most energetic people. they built the first presidential retreat in the mountains, the maryland mountains. paid for themselves. gave it to the government. you couldn't get in there except by horseback. so it was definitely a retreat. >> we are running out of time. this is something that stopped me. you wrote, the hovers were sensitive in the humanitarian matters, they warmly received -- congressman who had probably been excluded. did everybody up until hoover exclude mormons? >> it was very exclusive.

mormons were not accepted socially. blacks, people were not -- the hoover did invite african american people to the white house. mrs. over -- then they had them for dinner. >> the president saying, ladies previously tested as to their feelings. in other words, did they find out whether they would allow themselves to be in the presence of african americans? >> that was the point with the tee. they did. so they could have it and it could be an event of record, and then after that, no problems. it's hard to imagine, but the white house, -- >> what impact, 90 seconds, did the first african american history, as president of the united states, will have on the country, when they see this happening, on january 20th? >> well, i think, in a way, proves the american theme of

democracy, of people. we are not perfect, but we are closer than anybody else. and i think if you are considering president obama, you've got to remember that just the part of him represents african americans. the rest of him, he's very typical of presidents of the 20th century. a lawyer, self-made, from a pretty stable background, self-made, so for, the couple live in a house they are restoring in chicago. all of that is pretty typical. but the fact of an african american president, i don't think it will make an enormous difference -- i think it doesn't away prove our system, which we need to do from time to time. >> william seale wrote this 1415 page double volume history of the white house, he revised it this year, and this is for sale for roughly -- through this website on the screen. the

white house historical association. and we will see a lot of you in the documentary, and we thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you. >> this is american history tv, on c span three. were each weekend, we featured 48 hours of programs exploring our nation's past.

from our young nation. years following the war between the states, the nation was informed however, and small villages were strong by beads across the plains. friends in communities of and majority of people