mr. jackson year on thank you very much. >> thank you and good morning, welcome to the mcgowan theater, we are here to salute american icons the tuskegee airmen, please allow me to introduce the panel. and then we will come back here from our panelists, and they will ask the field to give questions, i may recite the

question a timer to just required a. let's start with the person closest to me with the blue cap, lieutenant colonel robert friend. next to him, harold brown's. lieutenant colonel george hardy, lieutenant colonel alexander jefferson. lieutenant colonel, james h. harvey the third. and are closer, lieutenant colonel harrison. this lets her start, he was born in the first guess he was born in south carolina. girlfriend, we will yield the floor to you, and then we will ask our friends in the audience to give you questions, let's have a round of applause for our first panelist. >> colonel friend just give us

a brief history about you >> i was always interested in flying and when the chances happened, i had a pilots license, in the late thirties because i was part of a program that the united states was doing in defense of itself and that was to train people, to fly airplanes as they were doing in europe and so,'s when the time came for us to go i was more than prepared, and i enjoyed it very much the one thing that i would like to clarify from my personal standpoint's everybody

says tuskegee is the place where they trained the african americans that's wrong way i think to look at it the right way to look at it is that was the place where we train people, who were not white you could be anything else and so, i went through the program this i went through three worse, and i feel very very fortunate to be able to be here to speak to people. and to let you know how we felt thank you. 's >> would anyone like to ask a question of colonel friend,

if so please stand. >> i would like to make note that given the bylaw you see on the screen if i may, a veteran of this the wingman to the units leader, the first african american general, yesterday was the app was the anniversary, a receiving his first star, in 1940 there's very few of us in the audience, that remember 1940, yet our panel does. all right so let's introduce lieutenant colonel brown, from minneapolis, minnesota whose father also fought in world war one, so colonel brown would you give us a brief history and the summary of your events in the military police are. >> certainly this i was born

and raised in minneapolis minnesota, and when i was about in a sixth grade, 11 years old i woke up one morning, and guess what i was going to become a military fighter pilot. well at the mention of that my mother, who looked at me and isn't it strange what your mother looks you and says he has all this wonderful talent but i had no talent whatsoever, and they could see things that no one else can see, so i sat on that stool for the first ten years of my life or so and then in the sixth grade, 11 years old i decided i was going to become a military pilot, don't ask me why don't ask me how i had never seen a movie about it, but one morning i woke up, and i was bit, so from that point on, it was model airplanes and every book i can find, i

remember one book in particular 's, west point of the year's and i read that book so many time i almost had it memorized 's what i was 16 years old's i was a soldier. this and i imagine i am i managed to save up 35 dollars. i have my uncle take me out, and i went up to an operator, and said i want to take flying lessons. they said sure, that will get you five. well i get the five,'s in a little j three piper cup. 's you guys a young so you don't see jay threes flying very often. but that's the way it was no more money, and no more flying license but of course in 1941

the war started, but keep in mind that during back in those days's after president roosevelt decided to train us guys back in 1941. the first classes started in july of 1941. they wanted people to have some college experience. it didn't take long before they had just about wiped out, all of the guys with college experience. and said maybe we're going to look at a few high school kids. you could pass the physical. pass the physical in the middle of the exams, maybe they would take you. in 17 years of age, i graduated from high school june 42, i will be biopic down to the recruiter station, and say i want to sign up. he said great sign on the dotted line, and he scored recently relatively high. so then i thought hey i'm on my way. and then they said no no no not

yet. everyone else and i am the only guy looking like this they were all sworn into the reserve. they were obviously protected from the draft. but my paperwork has's a little more and i have to sweat after 1818, to see if the draft was going to get me before i get my chance to go fly. fortunately, in december's i was selected's, and i finally found ups family finally ended up in the military. graduating class 1944. 's do you know why the second young guys after fake, worse how the old generals kind of sit there and select you young guys to go, you know why they do that? you guys are invincible aren't you. all you guys will live forever,

nothing bad will ever happen to you. but guess what, one day you too will also sweated out. but i could go on and keep backing in the acting, i don't want to take up too much time. so the thing you know the anybody have any questions. come on you guys, this you have 10,000 questions that there. so give me one's. >> colonel brown the level the gentleman to the left. this. >> sir, given that you lacked talent, what talent do you wish you had when you had been shot down over enemy tenet territory. >> i wish i would've had extra wings to fly, but unfortunately that was not the case. let me tell you just a little bit about that, thank you for the question. one of the biggest hazards, of

the flying missions, where if you are ever hit, you are always briefed to get out of the target area. and rightfully so. but escorting bombers off you know, there were a bunch of people down there not that you are trying to kill people but, there was shrapnel flying all over the place so all the sudden you get hit, you're in your shoot, imagine what those guys are thinking about when they just about wiped out some guy, and here you come floating down with parachutes. those are some very, angry people. and rightly so us. and this to follow up on that just a little bit, just two more minutes. i will shut down on my 30th mission, and this --

. i'm getting a rough time down here. i was shot down on my 30th mission, one of the fortunate things, or unfortunate things i should say is i did not get out of the target area. i was brought back to a little village, and i was met by 35 of the most angriest people you have ever seen in your life. and there is no doubt, they had murder on their minds, and they make certain they made certain that i knew what they were going to do. here i was 20 years old, looking like this, no business being up in germany, and i have a mob of 35 or so people looking at me, and they wanted a piece of me. fortunately, there is a good person in the crowd,'s and it's the person prevented them from taking my life. but for a very short while,

those first 35 minutes or so's, i was frightened two deaths. there wasn't a doubt in my mind i was going to die. i could not run, i could not hide, i could not do anything. this as a matter of facts, i think i was talking to myself for a while. harold what are you going to do? i don't know what you're going to do. think of something here. you are a young kid but that's what's gonna happen to you. but that was the most frightening thing that ever happened to me. i was looking deaf straight in the eye. and it 20 years old, i had a whole lot a living to do. but from that point on, p.o.w., 's and the camp, that was actually a safe haven really's. i will cut it off their's. i can go and tell you 10,000 stories, but i think you get

the picture. this thank you. this >> for those that did not hear the exchange when he said he was shot down, colonel jefferson said -- this i think i would like to hear the colonel brown lecture a timer. to our next panelist, is the tenant colonel george starting, from pennsylvania, this >> i was born and raised in philadelphia, yes i turned 17's that same month so i had to wait a year to get into the service. that i took the went to tuskegee and, stick these amin get me home until i turned 18. went to flying school, in

december 43 and gadget waited in september 44. after additional training, i ended up going overseas. my ap 50. 1:19 year old, having my rolls-royce. it was. but i came back after war, i got it in 46, and went to nyu in will for one year. and then got called back into basically in 1948. the air force was formed in september 1947, seven months later they said they were going to integrate racially. and truman signed the executive order in july. i went back in, for 50 weeks, became a maintenance officer in electronics. in 1949 when i graduated, and i was a to the 19 bomber group in warm guam. i learned to fly the airplane,

and 1950 i was put on his cool pilots. when the graph when the korean war started this, the first mission on june 1950. there was still racial problems in those days. and in march of 19 sorry may of 1950, the squadron commander, who would not speak to me, except in the line of duty. because he didn't believe in racial integration. and when we went up to okinawa and start flying on the 12th of july seven combat mission the last-minute he pulled me off the airplane and replaced me. he would not let me fly in his outfit. that was the first be 29 shutdown over north korea. i did not go down with them. i survived that period and got a new squadron commander after that. he went on to be deputy group

commander and put me back on flying status. i flew 29 missions, be 29 over korea. i say i grew up in the service because from limestone i went to the institute of technology for two years and got a bs in electrical engineering. i made major in japan afterwards. maintenance supervisor. from there i went to plant spurred new york and made squadron commander in maintenance squadron. my when commander was the same officer who pulled me off the airplane in okinawa. he was my when commander. i was with him for three years up there. it was the best three years of

my career under him the second time. i loved working for him under the second time. i love to see people change in their lives. i could've stayed with them forever but is to let me know they had a graduate level program they want to put in effect right away. they offered me the chance to go right away. i went there figure 16th for 19 months and ended up with a masters in systems engineering. reliability was the new field they came out with and i got a masters degree in that. i grew up in the surface. from there i got a job on an air force base. i'm a lieutenant colonel up there. for three and a half years i was chief of engineering.

for three and a half years, i was chief of engineering. we prepared a new gun ship the 119k. it was a two carrier airplane that carried 42 paratroopers. it let them out to at a time. but they made a gun ship out of it in vietnam. they looked for pilots who had flown that airplane and i had hundreds of hours in the 1:19. i was called back to duty as a pilot and ended up going to vietnam in 1970. i was lieutenant colonel. all the airplanes were at for operating locations.

i trained with a crew but when i went overseas they took the crew away from me and i became the commander of deneng i ended up flying 70 combat missions in vietnam in a gunship. i retired in 1971. i grew up and was educated in the service. someone was looking out over me. i never had to bail out of an airplane. so as i say, i was in some what's good graces and thank god for that. that's the sum total of my career. when i retired, because of my degrees, i retired on a friday and on monday i got a job offer. i worked with him for 18 years. i had the best of everything as far as the service and i am grateful for that. >> if we have questions for

colonel hardy, you can stand and we will bring a microphone to you. just a second colonel. u.s. man. >> good day gentlemen, i'm the assistant director of measurable -- military veterans affairs a unit university in florida. i have a question, in your age how do you stay so sharp and witty. >> it was a question again? >> (laughs) >> how do you stay so sharp and witty? >> i'm 93. i know how hard it is to get around and things like that. age catches up with everyone.

>> slowly but surely. >> any other questions? i have one for colonel hardy. if we can be reflective for a moment from world war ii, to korea, to the cuban missile crisis, to vietnam, your experience is leading up to vietnam how did that help you? >> the thing is, i was able to adapt to everything. but when i look at the totality of my career. in world war ii they would never hire someone of african ancestry over caucasian. but at the end of my career and vietnam, i was a detachment commander and all of my pilots were white. so i saw that evolution of how things happened in the service. i still have reunions and meet with those guys. i was 45 men and they're all at least 20 years younger than me.

>> colonel alexander jefferson, whose father -- grandfather was a founding member of the university. his favorite placed vacation is in hawaii. hopefully he will tell us what he likes to do in hawaii. colonel jefferson let's yield the floor to you. tell us a bit about yourself in the armed forces. >> someone asked me what how did you go to the army? i remember, 1941 world war ii is kicking off. i graduated from clark college in june 42. the first thing i did after the

draft was go down from detroit, the federal building, and joint. i thought they were going to send me to tuskegee and we were segregated and all the training was there. they said go home and we will call you. they put me on a list. took me almost nine months before they called me. i'm a clark college graduate. i'm in the last class going to tuskegee of college blacks. the army, navy and marines were grabbing blackmon with college degrees. the classes after me went through three months of college training detachment. i graduated january of 1944.

from tuskegee a second lieutenant, we were sent to an air force base to fly the p-39. because the three sections, the three squadrons were the three oh first, the three or second, and the nighty night. these three squadrons of blacks were flying p-39 up and down the shores outside of italy. my class we were supposed to be replacements for them. we were trained in p-39s. until march of 1944, we had to start general come to self fringe.

all officers report on the double which means drop anything you're doing. were there black and white officers trying to find out what the hell is going on. no one know what the heck is going on. all of the sun someone said attention. we popped to. down the aisle strolls a two star general. we're looking at each other wondering what the hell is going on here. he rambled on and on for about ten minutes and these are the words i remember. quote, gentlemen this is my airfield. as long as i am in command there will be no socialization between white and colored offices. we have been trying to get into the officers club and he said hell no. that was thursday.

saturday morning they put us on a train and three days later we ended up in south carolina. we were the first class to be shipped over to join the 332nd fighter group. i was put into the 332nd fighter squadron 301st fighter squadron. i flew 18 and a half missions. >> (laughs) >> i first 18 missions i flew escorting b-17

and b-24 to france. my 19th mission was a straight thing mission. the first time we did that. i'm in the 301st, there were 16 airplanes. for red, white, yellow and blue. i think i can't remember anyway. i'm blue. i'm over here. we are straightening, too long, southern france. radar stations. we did not know the invasion of southern france came off on august the 15th. . our job is to knock out the radar stations which controlled

the guns firing out to sea. we went on our first flight, second fight and third flight, fourth flight. on the fourth flight who is the last guy to go across the target? me. you look up ahead and you see all this stuff coming back at you. i went across the top of the target and felt something. i wondered with the hose that? fire came out of the floor. so i had to bail out. we're doing about 400 miles an hour because you push everything to the wall. remember now, out of nine months of training, not one minute on how to bailout.

you would rise to the occasion. pull back on the stick, get some altitude and as you go up you reach down on the left side and there's a little wheel that you rotate. if you turn the stick loose nose goes down. pull that up anyway, i don't know how i got up there, all i know is it started getting pretty warm so i had to get up. you pull a little knob and the whole canopy goes off. you get up so high, i do not know how high but it was getting warm so i said it's time to go. when you let the stick lose the nose falls abruptly.

as the tail drops, you have straps here with a big buckle and you hit that buckle and the straps come loose. i came out and i remember the tail going by with all that fire. and, somebody said, when you bailout, you go a, b, c, and i looked at those trees, and you pull that sucker really fast, and then boom. i am in the trees. so all of a sudden i'm trying to get out, and i hear this voice, and then i said oh darn. >> realistically german guard,

and he looked up, and i'm in the trees, he is helping me get out, and he looks up and sees a little gold bar, and he salutes me. analysts can do is return the salute. i was introduced to the german, you know i became a p.o.w.. 12 of august, 1944. by the time when herald came back, during that time 32 of us were p.o.w.. i'm not gonna go who through who lived or died, but we spent the rest of the war, at stolid three. and then we're at start log seven and eight. i became a schoolteacher, city

of detroit, 35 years, the little kids, lo and behold, i quit. take care i quit. that's it i'm done. >> thank you so much colonel. before our audience asked the question, i'm curious, 30 years, utah was it in english. what subjected you? teach >> elementary science. >> do we have anything, from our friends on the floor, you know the microphone might be coming towards you. just wait. >> my question for the whole entire panel, is how did you overcome racism and discrimination, and what

lessons would you mind sharing about that. >> what the hell do you say, you're talking to guys up here, where everyone of us has bad hearing. think about our ages. >> how did you overcome racial discrimination, when you are serving in the service. >> how did we do it? >> with the attitude everybody stupid except you and me. >> i would like to make a comment on that. >> sometimes i'm not even sure about you. >> i would like to make a comment about that, after racial integration took place, in 1949, all of us were shipped

out to other outfits. and individually, a lot of people run into problems. that you never thought you would run into discrimination problems, and hurt some fellows big-time. but it was a fact of life, there are many people, whites, who did not agree with integration. and if you served with someone like that, you may have paid a price. but gradually, the service worked. and i think, we came out on top. >> still going on today. us >> let's bring our fifths panelist in, from montpelier new jersey, i like your boots are. >> thank you. >> let's hear your story, what brought you into the military's are? >> okay, in january of 1923, i tried to enlist in the army air corps, they told me they were

taking enlistment at that time. it was at the height of the war, and i got the picture. they did not want me. so they drafted me in the army, in april of 1943. caught the train, and headed to fort mead maryland. got the washington to washington d.c., we had an hour layover, got off the train, and i went to a restaurant, that something to eat, went back to get on the train, and i said no way. you are in that car back there. welcome to the south. and they put me in the car where need rose could go. it's generally the last car. that was my introduction to segregation. now let me back up, i was born, i have to be born so i was born in montpelier new jersey, in july of 1923. and i left new jersey, went to

pennsylvania in 1936, and my dad was there, he was working there's, then we move to a small town called,'s new angola station. that is near mountaintop pennsylvania. which is near hazel ten. 's i went to a school, a two room school house in the seventh and eighth grade. this then when i went to this high school, i had to take a bus, that was in mountaintop pennsylvania. when we moved out there, we were the only family of color out there. so i did not run into any segregation whatsoever. i was treated just like any other person. so segregation never entered my

mind. no problems. i went to high school four we did, not you know really the only sport we had was basketball, and a tumbling team, and i was an anchorman on the tumbling team, and captain of the basketball team. in my senior year, another lady of color came in. now there are two of us in the school online senior year. my senior year i was class president and valedictorian. i did not know anything about segregation. again until i got into the military. and in my senior year, i was in my front yard, in the country, we lived in the country. no city at all. we had a house away from the house if you know what i mean. and i'm standing in my yard, and i saw this flight of p forties fly over information,

and i said i would like to do that one day. so i go to fort meet maryland, i get my uniform, my shots, and i checked in. and they sent me to jefferson barracks missouri, for basic training. finished my basic training, and based on my scores, am i written tests, taken in fort mead maryland, they put me in the army air corps. engineers. driving bulldozers, carry all's, our mission was to go to the pacific, go to the jungle, build an air field for aircraft. we squat and practice every day. and i said no, this is not for me. so i applied for cadet training. there were ten of us that applied, that went to take the exam. nine white people and myself. two of us passed.

and from there i went to biloxi mississippi, for 30 more days of basic training. i finished that, and off to us -- i went. i was a perfectionist's when i was growing up, everything had to be perfect. when i got married that had to change. so, failing never entered my mind, you know i saw i could do anything they wanted me to do. and that took me all the way through filing flying school. i had no problems at all in flying school. i remember one day i was practicing a lazy eight, that's a eight on a 45 degree angle, between 2000 and 1000 feet. you can take any altitude you want, but ours was between 2000 and 1000 feet. and i was at practicing, and

when i came to the tops, i was approaching 2000 feet, mighty fast. so i found myself upside down, but the altimeter said 2000, but i still had to practice, because the instructor didn't want any kind of that stuff. everything we did, in tuskegee had to be perfect. we learn to fly the aircraft. now the white pilots, i think all they have to do was demonstrate that they could get the aircraft off the ground, and back on safely. our program, flying training program, was designed for failure. they knew there would be anyone graduating, to man the fighter squadron. they knew that without a doubt, but we prove them otherwise. i graduated from flying school, in october's 1944.

and from there this i went to south carolina, for combat training. this i finished my combat training, in april of 1945. had my bags packed, and within one hour caught the train to go to norfolk, to catch a ship, to go over and join the group over in europe. this we got a message saying to hold us, so like i said, an hour before i was ready to go, i got this message saying to hold us, so i did not go. that was in april of 1945. hitler gave up the following month of may 1945. so i would have been on the high seas. for an in may of 1949, we had the first ever top gun weapons

meet. this we won the meat. by then the following months, of june's they started full integration of the military, they declared they were going to ill to integrate the military in 1948, but nothing really happened until they broke our grew up in june of 1948. they scattered us all over the world. 's we had an assignment to mississauga japan's. so before we left, our records have been forwarded to japan, so the group commander knew who was coming. so i should say the wing commander, so the wing commander, took all or pilots into the base theater, and said we have these two knee grow pilots coming in. they will be assigned to one of the squadrons. the pilots told us this themselves, they said no way

are we going to fly with them. no way. anyway, we reported into the wing commander, sat in his office and talked, and he said, what do you want to call you this, it's a military organization what you want to call you? well i'm a first, lieutenants eddie drummond is a second lieutenant, have a lieutenants harvey, and lieutenant drummond. then he made a mistake we had he said we have three fighter squadrons on the base. which one do you want to go to this? that is a no-brainer, i said the f-80. so they put us all they put us both in the f 80 squadron. they did not have a tea 33, which is a jet trainer, they did not have won this some we

had flown for instrument training, for the f-80, in the backseat you pull your hit, up and you can't see anything all you see is instruments. so both of us, we had two flights in the back of a -- fit. i would get in the backseat, the pilot upfront would get instructions for takeoff, in the meantime i have the hood up, before we taxi, and i have in place, and all i can see are my instruments. the pilot up front lines up on the runway, he says you have it you got it. so i struggle for forward, take off, mix the control, all that good stuff, and i fly around doing maneuvers all the maneuvers they want me to do. and then it is time to land, i called ground control approach, they vent me in for a landing, i touched down, and the pilot took over. i had to flights like that,

this what does that have to do with flying the f-80? nothing. this i finally figured out why, they had us do that, they want to see if we could fly. and we proved we could. i knew that.