american icons, the tuskegee airmen. the moderator of our panel is mr. ron jackson. he's a third generation military man who's currently a tour guide at the u.s. capitol, but formerly a proud paratrooper in the 82nd airborne division. i'm from north carolina so we're exceptionally proud of the 82nd and their actions over at fort bragg. we like to tell people we work really hard to live up to that so without any further ado mr. jackson you're on. thank you very much. >> thank you and good morning. welcome to the william j. mcgowan theater, and we're here to salute american cn0icons th

tuskegee airmen. please allow me to briefly introduce the panel, and then we'll come back and hear from our panelists and then we'll ask questions. i may recite a question or two just for clarity. let's begin with the person closest to me with the blue cap lieutenant colonel robert friend. lieutenant colonel brown. lieutenant colonel george hardy. lieutenant colonel alexander jefferson. lieutenant colonel james h. harvey iii. and our closer, lieutenant colonel harry stewart. let's first begin with lieutenant colonel harvey friend. we'll yield the floor to you and then we'll ask our friends in

the audience to give a few questions. let's have a round of applause for our first panelists. so, colonel, just give us just a brief history about you and your accounts in the military. >> well, i was always interested in flying, and when that chance was offered me -- for instance i had a license in late 30s because i was part of a program the united states was doing in defense -- potential defense itself, and that was to train people to fly airplanes as they were doing in europe.

and when time came for us to go to tuskegee i was more than prepared and i enjoyed it very much. one thing i would like to clarify from my personal standpoint everybody says tuskegee the place where they trained the african-americans. that's the wrong way i think to look at it. the right way to look at it is that was the place where they trained people who were not white. you could be anything else. and so i went through the program and went through three wars and feel very, very fortunate to be able to be here to speak to you people and to

let you know how we felt. thank you. >> thank you. [ applause ] >> would anyone like to ask a question of colonel friend? if so please stand. i would like to make note given the bio you see on our screen and for the audience maybe streaming if i may a veteran of 142 combat missions with the tuskegee airmen and the first african-american general in the air force benjamin o. davis, jr. yesterday was the anniversary of benjamin o. davis, sr. receiving his one star october 1940. there are few of us who remember 1940 yet our panel does. let's introduce lieutenant

colonel brown from minneapolis, minnesota, whose father also fought in world war i. so colonel brown, would you give us just a brief summary of your events in the military please, sir? >> certainly. i was born and raised minneapolis, minnesota, and when i was about in the sixth grade, 11 years old i woke up one morning and guess what? i was going to become a military fighter pilot. well, at the mention of that my mother who looked at me and isn't it strange how your mother can look at you and say he has all this wonderful talent when i had no talent whatsoever, but they can see things that no one else can see. so i sat on that piano stool for the first ten years of my life or so. and then in the sixth grade 11 years old i decided i was going

to become a military pilot. don't ask me why, don't ask me how. i don't remember seeing a movie about it, but one morning i woke up and i was bit. so from that point on it was model airplanes and every book i can fly. i can remember one book in particular, and bet i read that book so many times i almost had it memorized. when i was 16 years old i managed to save up $37 and i went up to a fixed base operator and said, hey, i want to take flying lessons. so they said, sure, that will get you five. so i got the five, and a little j-3 piper cup. you know what they look like.

i don't know if you do or not. as young as you guys are you don't see j-3s flying very often, but nevertheless that's what it was. no more money, and mow more flying lessons. and of course in 1941 we know the war started. keep in mind during back in those days after president roosevelt decided to train those guys back in march of 1941, the first class started in july of 1941. they wanted people to have some college experience. but it didn't take long before they had just about wiped out all the other guys with college experience. they said, hey, we'll open it up for you high school kids. if you can pass the physical and mental exams we'll take you in. so at 17 years of age i graduated from high school, june 42, i go bebopping down to the

local recruitment station and say, hey, i want to sign-up. great, sign-on the dotted line set for the exam, scored reasonably high and i said hey, i'm on my way. but interestingly enough they said not yet. everyone else and i'm the only one looking like this sitting there and there's about 100 other guys and they were all sborn into the reserve, and they were obviously protected from the draft. but my paperwork had to go to washington, d.c. so i sit there sweating after i turn 18, the draft is going to get me before i get my chance to go fly. in december i was selected and finally wound up in the military, graduating class, 1944, 19 years old, the hottest thing that ever said good

morning to an airplane. do you know why they send young guys off to fight wars, how the old generals kind of set there and select all you young guys to go out and fight the war. you know how they do that? you guys are invincible, aren't you? oh, you guys will live forever. nothing bad will ever happen to you. but guess what, one day you too will also sweat it out. but i could go on and keep yakking and yakking, and i don't want to take up too much time, so does anyone have any questions? now come on, you guys, rotc. you've got 10,000 questions so give me one. >> colonel brown, the gentleman to the left -- >> one question. >> what is it? >> from west point. given that you lacked talent, what talent do you wish you had when you were shot down over

enemy territory. >> well, i wish i had a pair of wings to fly but unfortunately that was not the case. let me tell you a bit about that and take a few minutes. one of the biggest hazards of flying missions were if you were hit you were always briefed to get out of the target area and rightly so. there were a bunch of people down there not they may be trying to kill people, but shrapnel and stuff flying all over the place. so all of a sudden you get hit, you're in your chute. now, can you imagine what those guys are thinking about after you just about wiped out some guy's brother, another guy's wife and all the rest of them and here you come floating down in a parachute. those are some very angry people, and rightly so.

and to follow that up just a little bit, two more minutes is all i'll take. i was shot down on my 30th mission and -- >> will. >> i was shot. alexander's give meeg a rough time down here. i was shot down on my 30th mission, and one of the unfortunate things i did not get out of it target area. i was picked up almost immediately, brought back to a little village and i was met by 35 of the most angriest people you have ever seen in your life. and there was no doubt they had murder on their mind, and they made certain i knew what they were going to do. now here i was 20 years old looking like this, no business being up in germany and i got a mob of 35 or so people looking

at me, and they wanted a piece of me. fortunately, there was a good person in the crowd, a constable that came up with his rifle and prevented them from taking my life. but for a very short while those first 35 minutes or so i was frightened to death. there wasn't a doubt in my mind i was going to die. i couldn't run, i couldn't hide, i couldn't do anything. as a matter of fact, i think i was talking to myself for a while. herald, what are you going to do? i don't know what i'm going to do. but that was the most frightening thing that ever happened to me because i was looking death straight in the eye, and at 20 years old i had a whole lot of living to do.

but from that point on getting to a pow camp that was actually a safe haven really. and i'll just cut it off there. i could go on and tell you 10,000 stories but i think you get the picture. thank you. [ applause ] >> for those that did not hear the exchange when colonel brown said he say shot down on his 30th mission the colonel said welcome to the club. i feel like i'd like to hear colonel brown lecture a time or two. our next is colonel george hardy from philadelphia, pennsylvania. i don't know if he's a fan of the philadelphia eagles or not. >> i was born and raised in philadelphia and graduated from high school in 1942. i turned 17 that same month so i

had to wait a year to get into the service. but in march of '43 i took the cadet exam to go to tuskegee passed it, and they sent me home i will i turned 18. went to flying school in december '43 and graduated in '44. after additional training i ended up going overseas. but i came back after the war and i got out in '46 and went to nyu for a year, and we recalled in '48. well, in '48 is when racial integration started. several months later the air force said they were going to integrate racially, and truman signed the executive order in july. i went back in and became a

maintenance officer in electronics. when i graduated racial integration had taken place in the air force. and i was assigned in a b 29 outfit as a maintenance officer. but i learned to fly the airplane and in 1950 i was put on a combat crew as part of a copilot. when the korean war started we flew over korea. the first mission on the 30th of june 1950 early on in the war. but there were still racial problems in those days. in march of -- no, in may of 1950 i get a new squadron commander who wouldn't speak to me except in the line of duty because he didn't believe in racial integration. when we ent up to okinawa and started flying at the last minute he pulled me off the airplane and replaced me. he didn't want me flying in his outfit. that was the first b-49 shot

down over north korea. anyway, i survived that period and got a new squadron commander after that and the new commander put me back on flying status so i ended up flying 45 missions of b-29s over korea. came back to the states in sak and had a good time and i say i grew up in the service because from langstone i went to it institute of technology for two years and got a b.s. in electrical engineering. i went to japan made maintenance

supervisor. and my wing commander was that same officer who pulled me off the airplane in okinawa. he was now my wing commander. it was the best three years of my career. i loved working for him the second time. love to see people change and whatnot. but i would stay with him forever, but the institute of technology let me know there's a new graduate level program they were going to put into effect and they were going to do it right away. and they didn't have time to advertise for it, so they went back to prior graduates and my name came up and they offered me a chance to go to greg paton. and i went there for 16 months and ended up with a masters in systems engineering. reliability was a new field they came out, and i ended up with a masters degree in that. so i grew up in the service.

from there i got a job at the air force base and i made lieutenant colonel up there. and for 3 1/2 years i was chief of? g engineering and program manager and 3 1/2 years i was chief of? gen earring and program manager for that. the first switch was cut over in june of 1969, but i'd been up for 5 1/2 years and they prepared a new gun ship, 119k. it was a two car airplane that 42 paratroopers and that looked for pilots who had flown that airplane. i had hundreds of hours in a

119, and i was recalled to active duty as a pilot and ended up going to vietnam in 1970. i was lieutenant colonel but all the airplanes were at foreign operating locations. i trained with a crew but when i went overseas they took the crew away from me and i became the commander. i ended up flying 70 combat missions in vietnam and a gun ship. i came back and retired in 1971. anyway, i say that i grew up, i was educated in the service. someone was looking out over me. i never had to bail out of an airplane. and so as i say i was in someone's good graces and i thank god for that. anyway, that's just the sum total of my career. but thing is when i retire because of my degrees i retired

on a friday and they made me be a job offer and i worked for them for 18 years. so i say i had the best of everything as far as service and i'm grateful for that. >> if we have questions for colonel harding would someone stand, we'll bring the microphone to you. >> i'm the assistant director at florida am university and i have a question for you all. in your age now how do you stay so sharp and so witty? >> what was that question again?

>> touché, how do you stay so sharp and witty, i believe that's for the entire panel. >> i'm 93 and i know how hard it is to get around and do things like that. age catches up with everyone and it's catching up with us, too. >> slowly but surely. >> right. >> any other questions? i have one for colonel harding, if we could be reflective for a moment from world war ii to korea to the cuban missile crisis to vietnam your experiences leading up to vietnam, how do they help you, sir? >> well, the thing is when i look back at this thing with vietnam i was able to adapt to everything. but the thing is when i look at the totality of my career, in world war ii they'd never haveghave anyone of african ancestry over a caucasian, but at the end i

was a detachment commander and all the pilots were white, so it shows that evolution how things went in the service. and i still meet with those guys, still have reunions some of them. bit i was 45 then. they're all at least 20 years younger than me, but i get along with them very well. >> thank you. yes, absolutely, please. [ applause ] >> our fourth panelist is lieutenant colonel alexander jefferson whose grandfather was one of the founding fathers of the university. hopefully he'll tell us what he likes to do in hawaii. so colonel jefferson let's yield the floor to you, sir. >> good.

remember now 1941 world war ii was kicking out. i graduated from clark college in june '42. so the first thing i did went down from detroit, went down from the federal building and joined. i thought they were going to send me tuskegee because we're seg grated and all the training is in tuskegee. they said go home and we'll call you. took me almost 9 months before they called me. remember now i'm a graduate. i'm a clark college graduate and i'm in the last class going to tuskegee of blacks who were college graduates because the army, navy, marines were grabbing black men with college

degrees. the classes after me went through three months of college training detachment. i graduated in january '44 from tuskegee as a second lieutenant. we were sent to -- air force base fly the p-39 because the three qusquadrons were the 301, the 302 and the 99th. these three squadrons of blacks were flying p-39s up and down the shores outside of italy. and my class, we were supposed to be replacements for them, and we were trained in p-39s until

something like march of '44. i had a two star general come, i'm out over lake herno, air gunnery, all officers report which means drop everything you're doing and get your behind there. we happen there black and white officers mixing trying to find out what the the hell's going on, nobody knows. all of a sudden someone said attention and we pop to. down the aisle strolls a two star general. we looked at each other and said what the hell is going on. i don't know. he rambled on and on for about four, five, 10 minutes, and these are the words i remember. quote, gentlemen, this is mile

airfield. as long as i'm in command there will be no socialization between white and colored officers. holy something crap, we've been trying to get into the officers club, and he said hell no. that was thursday. saturday morning they put us on a train and three days later we ended up walter borough, south carolina. we were in the first class to be shipped over to join the 332nd fighter group. i was put into the 301 fighter squadron, and i flew 18 and 1/2 missions.

my 18th missions were escorting p-51s -- we just got into p-51s. i'm cutting it short, dammit. and escorting them from italy to germany, italy to france. the 19th mission was a strafing miz, first time we came in and strafed. and i'm in the 301st. out of the 16 airplanes four red, white, yellow, blue. i think. i can't remember it. anyway i'm blue. i'm over here. we're strafing too long,

southern france, radar stations. we did not know that the invasion of southern france came off on august 15th. our job was to knock out the radar stations, which controlled guns firing out to sea. well, we went in. first flight, second flight, third flight, fourth flight. and out of the fourth flight the last guy to go across the target? me, ggoddamit, and fire came up out of it floor so i had to bail out. and here we are doing about 400 miles an hour because we pushed

everything to the wall. so jds to myself now remember now out of nine months of training not one minute on how to bail out. so you rise to the occasion. pull back on a stick, get some goddamn altitude, and as you go up you reach down and there's a little wheel that you rotate for nose down. you turn the stick loose you nose goes down. pull that sucker up anyway and as you get up. i don't know how the hell i got up. all i know is it got pretty warm. i had to get out. so as you're going up you reach up and pull a little knob and the goddamn canopy goes off.

and you get up so high. i don't know how high, but i got kind of warm, so i said it's time to go. i turn the stick loose, and when you do what happens to the nose? boom, abruptly. and as the tail dropped you have the straps here with a big buckle, and you hit that buckle and the straps come loose. boom, i came out. i remember the damn tail going by with all that fire. and somebody said when you bail out you go a, b, c. but, hell, i looked down and the goddamn trees were so close. you reach up and pull that sucker real fast and, boom, i'm in the trees. and all of a sudden i'm sitting trying to get out and i hear

this voice -- i said, oh, shit. realisticly? german guard, and he looked up and i'm in the trees and he's helping me get out. and he looks up and sees a little gold bar, and he salutes me. and all i can do, return the salute. i was introduced to the german -- i became a p.o.w. 12th of august 1944. by the time when harold came in. and during the war there were 32 men out of the 332nd fighter

group are p.o.w.s, 32 and i'm not going to go through the men who died. but we spent the rest of the war at stalog 3 and came back from the war. i became a schoolteacher, city of detroit, 35 years. lo and behold i quit. take care, i quit. thank you. >> thank you, colonel jefferson. [ applause ] >> before our audience asks a question i'm just curious, 30 years you taught. was it in english? what subject did you teach? >> elementary science. >> do we have anything from our friends on the floor?

would you be so kind to wait on the microphone coming towards you. >> my question for the whole entire panel is how did you overcome racism and discrimination, and what lessons would you mind sharing about that? >> what the hell did he say? >> repeat the question one more time. >> by the way, you're talking to guys up here, we're -- everyone of us have bad hearing. think about our ages. >> my kbegz was how did you overcome racial discrimination while you were serving in the service. >> how did we do it? >> with the attitude everybody's stupid except you and me.

>> i would like to make a comment on that. >> and sometimes i'm not so sure about you. >> i'd like to make a comment about tat. after racial integration took place in '49 all of us were ship out to other outfits. and individually a lot of people ran into problems that you'd never thought you'd run into discrimination problems, and it hurt some of the fellows career wise, but it was a fact of life because there were many people, whites, who didn't agree with integration. and if you serve with someone like that you may have paid a price. but gradually the service has worked, and i think we came out on top. it's still going on today. >> let's bring our fifth panelist in. lieutenant colonel james h.

harvey iii and i like your boots, sir. so let's hear your story. what brought you into the military, sir? >> okay, in january 1943 i tried to enlist in the army air corp. they told me they weren't taking enlistments at that time. that was the height of the war, and i got the picture they didn't want me. so they drafted into the army in april 1940, '43. got to train in pennsylvania heading to ft. mead, maryland. got to washington, d.c. and got off the train and went to a restaurant and got something to eat, went back to get on the train and said no way, you're in that car back there, welcome to the south and they put me in the car where negroes road, it was

the last car. that was my introduction to segregation. let me back up now. i was born -- i have to be born. i was born in new jersey in july 1923, left new jersey, went to pennsylvania in 1936, went to wilxbury, pennsylvania, and my dad was there and we moved to a small town and it's near mountaintop, pennsylvania, which is near wilxbury and hazelton, pennsylvania. then when i went to high school we had to take a bus and that was at mountaintop,

pennsylvania. now, when we moved out there we were the only family of color out there. so i did not run into any segregation whatsoever. i was treated just like any other person. so segregation never entered my mind. no problems. went to high school at mountaintop, pennsylvania. we did not have to have -- the only sports we had was basketball and a tumbling team. i was the anchorman on the tumbling team and captain of the basketball team. and in my senior year had another young lady of color come in. so now there are two of us in the school my senior year. my senior year i was class president and valed victorian. i did not know anything about segregation until i got into the

military. my senior year i was out in the country, no city at all. had a house away from the house if you know what i mean. and i was sitting pin my yard and i saw this flight of p-40s flyover in formation. i said to myself i'd like to do that one day. so i go to ft. meade, maryland, get my uniform, my shots, i check in, and they sent me to jeffers jefferson barracks, missouri, for 30 days of basic training. finished basic training and based on my scores and written test i had taken at ft. mead, maryland, they put me in army air corp engineers. the mission was to go into the pacific, go into the jungle, doze out an area and build an airfield for aircraft.

we had squadron practice every day, and i said, no, this isn't for me. so i applied for cadet training. there are ten of us that applied that went to take the exam. 9 whites and myself. two of us passed. and from there i went to buluxi, mississippi, and 30 more days i trained. i was a perfectionist growing up, and when i got married that had to change. like i said i had no problems at all in flying school. i remember one day i was

practicing a lazy 8, that's a maneuver, it's an 8 on a 45-degree angle between 2,000 and 1,000 feet. you can take any altitude you want, but ours is between 2,000 and 1,000 feet. and i was out practicing, and when i came to the top i was approaching 2,000 feet mighty fast, so i found myself upside down, but the altimeter said 2,000 feet, but i still had to practice because instructor didn't want that kind of stuff. anything we did at tuskegee had to be perfect, so we learned to fly the aircraft. now, the white pilots i think all they had to do was demonstrate they could get the aircraft off the ground and back on safely. our program -- flying training program was designed for our failure. they knew there wouldn't be

anyone graduating to man the 99th fire squadron. they knew that without a doubt. but we proved them otherwise. i graduated from flying school in october 16, 1944. and from there i went to -- pardon me -- walter borough, south carolina, for combat training. i finished my combat training in april of 1945, all my bags packed, within one hour of catching the train to go to norfolk, catch a ship to go over and join the group over in europe. like i said an hour before i was ready to go we got this message saying to hold us, so i didn't go. that was in april '45. hitler gave up the following month of may of '45, so i would

have been on the high seas. and in may of 1949 we had the first ever top gun weapons meet where harry stewart, captain temple and myself are members. in june they started full integration of the military. they declared they were going to integrate the military in '48, but nothing really happened until they broke our group up in june '48, and they scattered us all over the world. any german who was in the 99th, he and i had an assignment in japan. so before we left our records had been forwarded to japan so the group commander knew who was coming. or i should say the wing

commander. so the wing commander called all the pilots into the base theater before we got there, said we have these two negro pilots coming in and they'll be assigned to one of the squadrons. well, the pilots told us this themselves. they say no way are we going to fly with them, no way. so anyway eddie drummond and i reported into the wing commander sitting in his office talking, and he said what do you want us to call you, it's a military organization. what do you want us to call you? i said, well, i'm a first lieutenant, eddie dromonds is a second lieutenant. how about lieutenants harvey and drummond. he said okay, but then he made this mistake. he said we have three fighter squadrons on the base. two p-51 squadrons and one 80 squadron, that's the jet, which one do you want to go to?

that's a no-brainer, i said the f-80, so they put us both in the f-80 squadron. they did not have a t-33, which an f-80 jet trainer. but they did have a couple of at-6s, and we in the back seat you pull this hood up you can't see out. all you have are your instruments. so eddie drummond and i, we both had two flights in the back seat of an at6, but they would do i'd get in the back seat, the pilot up front would get instructions for take off. in the meantime i've got the hood up. before we taxi out i've got the hood up in place. the pilot up front lines up on the runway, he says you've got it. so i throttle forward, take off, pull the gear, the flap, cockpits, mixture control all

that good stuff and i fly around doing maneuvers he wants me fto do. then it's time to land i call ground approach, they vector me in for a landing and i touch down and the pilot up front took over. i had two flights like that. what does that have to do with flying the f-80? nothing. i finally figured out why they had us do that. they want to see if we could fly, and we proved we could. i knew that. they had doubts, but we showed them, yes, we could fly just like anybody else. and i was in japan and i came back to the states and, well, korea. korea started when i was in japan. we immediately started flying missions the next day after the invasion. and i fly 126 missions in the

f-80, and then rotated back to japan. i had 126 missions by christmas day, december, december 25th. in the meantime the wing commander had been asking air command for cut off in the number of missions that the pilots flew. and nothing would come down. finally it came down 100 missions, so i did not have to fly anymore. rotated back to japan, and that was in december of '50, and came back to the states in april of '51. i went to georgia air force base in victorville, california, and there i was an assistant operations officer, instrument instructor pilot and test pilot. i would have to say i did not have any problems through my

whole career in the military as far as being a minority, none whatsoever. even the guys that were the squadron in japan, the ones that said they were not going to fly with us, they found we were good, we were very good. we were better than they were. the reason why we're so good as a group is because of our traini training. everything the infrastructure r did was to wash us out and it made us better filets. we were good, we were the best. we proved that overseas we were the best. and we came back to the states, we had the weapons meet in '49, we won that. we proved we're the best there. i like to use the word best. i don't know if you notice that. >> colonel harvey, what year did you retire, sir?

>> i retired in madison, wisconsin, in may 1949. before i retired i had a family to support so before i retired i started looking for a job. i end up getting with united airlines. they didn't want me because of my color. because they didn't passengers getting on the airplane and see a dark face in the cockpit. and madison, wisconsin, was the home office for oscar meyer, and i interviewed with oscar meyer and got a job as a salesman. however, i was supposed to be at the plant for three months learning the operation from slaughter to all the products. i was there a month and they needed a salesman in northern new jersey, and went there for three years. went to detroit as an assistant sales manager -- district

manager, rather. and i was there for 18 months. and then to philadelphia as an assistant sales manager. i was there for three years. and then i got a promotion to denver as a center manager. and i was there senate manager from '73 i will february of 1980 and retired from oscar meyer in february 1980. >> i'd like to yield to the floor. do we have any questions? yes, ma'am. give me just a second -- >> and you'll have to relay like jefferson. >> don't you love the detail of 1944 and 1945? >> good morning, gentlemen. what was it like coming back to areas in the country where there was still segregation?

>> can i repeat the question, gentlemen? what was it like in areas where there was segregation? what was it like to live -- >> to come back home. >> she asked what was it like to live in an area when there was segregation when you came back home or where you were stationed. >> it didn't bother me at all. they had their problem. i ignored my problem. maybe that's wrong. nothing in life bothers me. i just go with the flow. >> okay, let's get to our final panelist. he's our closer for this day. it's lieutenant colonel from newsport, virginia. so kecolonel stewart, let's go

you, sir. >> thank you, it won't take more than a half-hour. anyway, i'm going to preempt some of the questions that might be asked of me, maybe two questions, all right. and that question would have to do with what were the greatest things that happened to me while i was in the service there? well, i'd say the second greatest thing was 75 years ago plus or minus a few months and met these guys here, and it was quite an event for me. and it's been a lasting love affair for the past 75 years. of the combat pilots there are 13 of us left, and we still try to keep in contact with one another. but right on the stage you see the remainder of a portion of that 13. but, anyway, getting back to the

question. what were the greatest things that happened to me in the service, and that was one of them. that was the second greatest thing. i'd like to say that these gentlemen -- colonel friend over there on the end who was the first panelist there he was born in columbia, south carolina, but he was raised in manhattan, the borough of manhattan, new york. and you mentioned me as being born in newport news, virginia, and i was raised in the borough of queens of new york there. so we were over a distance apart over the river here. but i didn't know him before i went into the service. he was operations officer in the 301st fighter squadron, and when i went over there he had already gotten about 100 missions under his belt. he was serving his second tour. but, anyway, the war ended in may of 1945, and we -- all of us

got on the boat together and we came back from italy, landed in staten island and colonel friend over there, he went home to his family in manhattan there and i took the subway and went home to my family in queens. i guess i was home for about two days and i got a call from colonel friend, he says -- harry, he said i'd like you to come on over and meet my family in manhattan here, so i went over and met his family and little did i know this would end up a 68-year marriage to his sister. [ applause ] >> but i call him cupid because he did the same thing with another one of his sisters

there. brought one of the tuskegee airmen home and introduced them and they were married. so a question when i mentioned this story before he said how many times did cupid do this again, and couped answered none. and he said why, and he said i ran out of sisters. but that was the greatest thing that happen today me while i was in the service there. >> there's one other thing. you shot down three airplanes in one mission. didn't mention that, in one mission. >> it's up there. >> i want to make sure they heard that, okay. >> for those that might be streaming they can't see. so let's start to the gentlemen in black all the way up in that direction and i'll come back to the middle. just one or two questions. there's a microphone coming

towards you, sir. >> hi, colonel. my name is ray simon, i'm an artist. but one of the questions i wanted to ask you is have you ever looked at yourself as a civil rights movement yet to come? in reality as history proceeded you guys were the trail blazers. i was talking to colonel friend and colonel jefferson yesterday and almost laid the path for ruby bridges, rorosa parks and what i find interesting are the missions to the factory was 21 years and one day, which was 1965, march 25th when dr. martin luther king marched across the bridge to vote. why question is have you ever looked at yourself, all of you as a civil rights movement yet to come? you didn't protest, didn't march. you became some of the best pilots in the country.

>> i've been asked that question a number of times, and while we were going through training, and i think that the other panelists will attest

that's what was going on. in this country, when i came on after the war, put all of my stuff together.

red tail captured, red tail free. it was highly accepted, but there was something on the inside of me, and teaching school. i felt that somewhere, yang, black men needed to learn how to fight the system. the system is vicious. and unless you know how to cope with the vicious system, you've got nothing. we had things called safety patrols, remember? when a little kid had a white belt. they had the responsibility of

patrolling that corner. well in order to be safe you had to be entered. that's number one. until black teenagers, a black kid telling him at that time to be a nerd was a no no. off to size a shun. you had to be on time. colonel davis he managed us to be on time. when colonel davis said be in my office at this pacific time, if you don't show up at 9:00 for instance, what time do you show up? >> 8:45. >> right. you had to be on that corner, all of a sudden you are

teaching a 12 year old to be on time. when you come in the school building you take off your hat. you can cope with the system. when the teachers come to the door, and a 12 or 13 year old opens the door, what do you teach him? manners. slowly but surely. these are the kinds of things on the back of my mind. in learning how to fly, let satisfy, the landing was only, that's a joke i can't tell. >> jefferson, if i may, for the audiences questions will address the panel after the presentation. >> good enough. >> we have something special coming up. thank you for your time. reminding us of something timeless.

to be on time. to be on time is to be late. >> yes sir. it's very important, the cadets to appreciate the fact that you don't have to be a pilot to be in the air force. the air force has a awfully wide range of activities that people are getting involved in. you can do both. you can read yourself as pilot. while at the same time selecting for your career something else. for instance, i was in tech intelligence. and in tech intelligence i was responsible for those kinds of things, i went through lots and

lots of schooling. lots of schooling. at least ten years of schooling. and you'd be happy with that. that's a real life. real life. if you can get into flying, if you like flying, that's fine. i liked flying. i liked fly. i liked it big time. but also the air force needs people other than pilots. these are the people, the ones who are responsible for pilots, like the crew chiefs that we had, the too had to understand and had an appreciation for dedication. when i got down and got onto an airplane, he used to walk over

to me and say we are we going today. and when i came back, he said, >> and i recognize a lot of things. like for instance, young man down there, i watched him do it, i was right behind him. >> please remain seated. mr. roberts. >> first of all thank you very much, for one of the highlights not only of our, day the highlights of our. lives in meeting and speaking with not just american heroes, they are world heroes, they

have stood up and took responsibility for themselves and others so on behalf of a air force pilot was not a pilot i want to express my appreciation for your leadership, the example that you, set your great work, and your dedication. thank you very much. (applause) with that ladies and gentlemen, please be seated. i want to now introduce, jim roberts, president and founder of, for a special presentation. >> thank you, you have done a great job. and thank you gentlemen. it's an honor to have you with us. i knew you would be inspirational, and you were. but i didn't know that you could entertain. it's been a great session. thank you so much for being

with us. >> if you haven't yet, take the opportunity to visit the rotunda, see you soon. after lunch. have a good lunch.

you're watching a special edition of american history. tv tonight beginning at eight eastern, programs on can state university, 50 years after the anti war protests. on may fourth 1970, demonstrations against the vietnam war led to a deadly confrontation between students and the ohio national guard. four students were killed and nine wounded. watch american history tv. now and over the weekend on c-span 3. next on american history tv, singer archivist randy thompson showcases some of the resources available to the public at the national archives branch in southern california. items include artifacts dating back to 1875, the front of the north hollywood library hosted

this event. >> we're glad you're here with us today to learn maybe for the first time about the national archives. a unique and little no public institution, that's also known as our nation's record keeper. our guest today our national archivist for the united states. they've driven all the way out here from the riverside to be here with you and us in order to inform and inspire us to investigate, and utilize our nations archives, and among their holdings are documents going back to 1775 and lastly we've been handing out raffle tickets because after the q&a we'll be giving away what the friends of the library love to give away more than anything else and that's some books to some lucky winners so please join us at this point in welcoming from the national archives at rsi