and historian featured and order your copy today wherever books and e-books are sold. next on american history tv, howard ruffner talks about the photos he took on may 4th, 1970 when national guard troops shot and killed four students at kent state university in ohio during an anti-vietnam war protest. a student and photographer for the college newspaper at the time, one of the photos was used on the clover of "life" magazine and published a book about his experience, "moments of truth." >> thank you all so much for coming out tonight. tonight we are hosting the photographer howard ruffner who during his college years at kent state university was a photographer for the year book as well as the newspaper.

his book tonight "moments of truth" is a collection of more than 150 of the photos that surround kent state massacre of 1970 and in which four students lives were lost. so without further ado, please welcome howard ruffner. [ applause ] >> well, first of all, it is nice to see familiar faces out here. lots of people from pasadena village and relatives, my daughter is out here with my son-in-law and his parents are here and it is really kind of people from where i live. but most of all i have to thank my wife for being here. my wife laura, if she'll just raise her hand. [ applause ] it's nice to see people from

here, people from pasadena village. laura kept me organized and made sure i didn't lose focus where i was going with this. so let me get started. the intention of my book is to let you know more about me in the beginning before i attended kent state. my introduction to photography. and then the rest of the story starts with when i enrolled at kent state in march of 1969.

and i photographed from may 1 through may 4th. that's me in the photo standing next to my mom. looking up at my newest brother, rick. that's me. that's rick. the cleveland press back in those days thought a family of six boys made a good human interest story. so they titled it, sing a song of sick pants. [ laughter ] they sent a photographer to our home. i watched as the photographer came into the house, looked around and found a place to gather us together. he positioned us and took the picture. the photo ran on the front page of the paper the next day, above the fold. friends and neighbors couldn't wait to share the front page. we were famous. this was 1953.

here we are, 18 years later. we are now seven boys in eight years. my youngest brother is on the far left. he was still in high school. three of us have been in the service. two air force, one army. two more will be joining, one air force and the other one in the navy. it was about a year after high school when i enlisted in the air force. during my first two years as a writer in the information office in waco, texas, i applied and was accepted to a group, the department of defense broadcast specialist course. during the eight weeks of broadcast journalism, we were taught how to write for tv news and incorporate news film and slides and television broadcasts. after that, i was assigned to the american forces philippines network.

my duties included editing film, running a television camera and this sharpened my ability to frame and choose and compose pictures. my visual awareness was growing and later i became the primary news director and got to call all the shots at the station. so the base offered me lots of opportunities to take photographs of celebrities. celebrities visited doing uso shows. many included comedians, singers, movie stars to entertain troops and families. they were on their way to vietnam. general benjamin davis, the highest ranking african-american u.s. air force officer, greeted bob hope upon his arrival. davis would later be asked to serve on the president's commission on campus unrest to investigate the shootings at

kent state in 1970. many of the photos i took then were used during our daily television show. it was at clark air base where i got seriously involved in photography. this is where i bought my first nikon camera and lens. now i had a professional camera. the hobby shop on the base was my escape from work. next came printing my images. here they really taught me how to make a really finished photograph. like i heard watching a photo appear and develop was like magic. i was giving myself assignments and taking pictures daily and printing what i thought was

good. after a while, the photo lab techs encouraged me to enter a photo competition. i entered this photo which won first place. another photo entered won third place for landscape. having completed and won gave me a sense of accomplishment and encouraged me to get better. now that my photography was taking off, so to speak, i decided to submit a recent photo i took to the base newspaper. this was my first published photograph. it ran with my credit and it took some planning to get exactly what i wanted. now i'm feeling i'm become more accomplished as a photographer. now it's march of 1969. i have enrolled at kent state university, ready to pursue my degree in broadcast journalism. spring on campus was a time for students to get out and play and enjoy college life beyond books. these students had been involved in anything as silly as a mud fight probably, since they were in elementary school. it seemed like a perfectly natural way to break the ice, get to know your fellow

classmates. this helped me realize that there was more to college than just going to class and studying. while i was surprised by seeing this, it just reminded me it was safe in a playful way to relieve the tensions of school. from mud fights to dating. casual fridays had not been invented yet. few students wore jeans. sneakers were for gym class. it was date night for a sly and the family stone concert that spring. sly arrived on stage with muttonchops, long hair and an outrageous hippie outfit. students, however, wore their best date night clothes. they looked like they're going to job interviews. kent's student conservative side was apparent at the concert. this was my first student protest photograph. up until now, school is quiet as

far as protests were concerned. students had been working on signs and banners during the week and the morning of the anti-war march. it was thursday morning, october 1969. students grabbed signs and a banner as they left the campus and headed to downtown kent to protest the vietnam war. they did this on thursday because kent was a suitcase campus. a lot of students went home in nearby canton, ohio. friday afternoon, weekends, campus was deserted. the woman behind the word all is allison krause. i will tell you about her later. the anti-war sentiment was on the minds of many kent students, especially young men who knew they were deferred as long as they remained in school. this would change on december 1st that year when the draft lottery was put into place. as a photographer on campus, other than this protest march,

most of the protesting i heard was in the classrooms and the student union. the next large anti-war gathering wouldn't occur until may 1, 1970, when 300 to 500 students would attend a rally to protest nixon's expansion of the vietnam war into cambodia. by the fall, the anti-war movement had grown off colleges campuses to the mall in d.c. four of us from the newspaper decided to drive to washington, d.c. to join the anti-war protests on november 15th. just a few weeks after our own homecoming. we arrived friday evening in time to watch people honoring the soldiers who had died in vietnam. that night, 18 of us slept in one room of a friend's dorm. our feet pointed in and our heads out. the next morning we headed to

the mall. i was impressed by the size of the crowd and by their focus and steadfastness to be part of something so big it would make the government take notice. this is my first trip to washington, d.c. everything was very new and exciting. the resentment of half a million people of this continued war could be felt as i moved my way through the crowd. their determination to have their voices heard was deafening. with the u.s. capital a background, the protesters demanded an end to the war. i needed to push my way through the crowd to find out where the march began. after a lot of walking and nudging around, i came to the beginning of the parade. i stood in awe as i spotted george mcgovern at the front of the parade. i nudged my way through to get as close as i could and took my photos. locked arm in arm, mcgovern and king and others showed the strength of their unity and commitment. i was moved to be so close to such committed and important people who opposed the war. now it's may 1, on campus.

may 1, 1970. history graduate student steve sheroff urges a rally of 300 to 500 students to understand the severity of nixon's decision to invade cambodia. nixon did this without the consent of congress. according to steve, nixon murdered the constitution. therefore, it was dead and needed to be buried. with the constitution buried, and the crowd beginning to leave, the grad students pack up and went on their way. one last grad student sees this as an opportunity to speak to the crowd, to remind them how important the rally was and that the discussion about the war

needs to continue. he urged students to return to the same place on noon, monday, may 4. this rally took place between 12:00 noon and 1:00. most students started leaving just before the lunch period ended. after the rotc building was set on fire saturday evening, i stayed up late into sunday morning and watched as the national guard took up positions on the campus. i had a surreal feeling as i observed the movement of the armed troops. where did they come from so quickly? how did they get here? what kind of trouble would happen when students arrived back on campus after the weekend? well, students walked around the burned out rotc building sunday morning as they returned to campus. a wooden fence had been erected while they were gone. national guardsmen posted to

keep gawkers from getting too close. protesting had stopped. there were no resumers of more protesting or of more buildings being set on fire. everybody had quieted down. so why would the national guard not leave? around 10:00 a.m. on may 3, ohio governor james rhodes and officials arrived on campus. they were there to survey the damage and determine what they would do about student protesters. the governor was running for a u.s. congressional senate seat. the election was may 5th. just a day later. two days away. when i heard this, i realized this is his viewing of the rotc building was a planned event to get media coverage so co-be splashed across a newspaper and tv around the state. he wanted to impress voters that he was the law and order candidate. so they would send him to washington. they didn't. using street lights and search

lights from helicopters, sunday evening, i took photos of students staging a sit-in at the center of town. they wanted to hear from the mayor of kent and from university president robert white. they wanted to know what was happening, who was in charge, what was the national guard's exact role, were the town and school under martial law? confusion reigned all around. on may 4th, around 11:30 a.m., students gathered on the commons to continue the rally of may 1st. i have adjusted this photo to allow specific students to stand out. if you can't see it very well, in the front row are the legs and arms of jeffrey miller, who is behind a female student. this is jeffrey miller. he was a native of new york where he was born in 1950.

to his right is mary ann vecchio. she had become the most recognizable non-university student protester. most iconic photograph you remember is the day after. she's right here. 14 years old, runaway from florida. there are two shaded individuals in the middle right of the photo. these students carry their books as they pause on the way to class. on the right is william schroeder. he was a native of cincinnati, ohio, where he was born in 1950. to his left is sandy scheuer. a speech therapist honor student, intent on going to class. she was born in 1949 in youngstown, ohio. i watched as a line of guards

students reached the crest of the hill and the guard continued to advance on them. on the right, just under the pagoda is allison krause. that's the person i took a photograph. allison krause was a freshman honor student. she was born in cleveland in 1951. this photo is particularly difficult for me to look at. i see her holding hands with her boyfriend. i go back to 1969 to remember the original federal i took of her and the banner that read, bring all the troops home. at this point, the guard completed its objective. they were supposed to disburse the students from the crowd that gathered. the guardsmen were still advancing. what more did they need to accomplish? what was their real objective here? what they really wanted was for

this all to end so they could go home. as the guard continued their marching, they reached the corner of taylor hall. i witnessed the group at the rear turn in unison, some crouched down while others stood. then the gunshots began. of course, i thought they would be shooting blanks. i took a photograph as they turned and fired. i stood there. then a moment later i thought to myself, i better get down. i probably look like a good target with these cameras around my neck. back then lens were long and we didn't have a tiny lens or cameras. so what i did was swung any left arm around my camera and my bag and i went down on the ground. just as i was getting down and dropping to my knees, i heard a young woman scream, oh, my god, get down. they're using real bullets. they are shooting real bullets.

i was 80 feet in front of the guard when they turned and fired. this photo showed the ground in front of taylor hall where the national guard turned and fired. it does not show evidence of anything thrown at the guard or anything they would have -- that would have put their lives in danger. as they would later testify at the civil trials. i show this because when you look at a photograph sometimes you look at what the photographer intends for you to see. what is of interest. in the first photograph, you see the guns pointed in the air, the bayonets, people looking. if i go back you will see what i mean. when i talk about somebody -- maybe i'm not in the right spot. there's a guy right there,

getting close to looking at me in my direction. as i looked around from my crouched position, i spotted john cleary lying wounded on the ground just to my left and a little behind me. he was at the base of the metal sculpture in front of taylor hall. i couldn't tell if he was dead or alive. cleary was lucky. he survived a shot to the chest. the first time i saw this photo was more than a week later on the cover of "life." someone from "life" called me a week before about 2:00 a.m. to let me know they had chosen one of my photos for the cover. because i sent unprocessed rolled of film to "life" in chicago, i had no idea what my images looked like. i never knew exactly what the cover shot was until "life" hit newsstands later that week. i'm sure some of you might

remember this cover. i will leave it up here. so at the memorial site of the shootings, visitors see these engraved memorials. if you have -- you wouldn't get there from here, but it's a thing to see if you go there. first word is inquire. as i wrote this memoir, i asked myself hundreds of questions about what truth my photographs really captured. who was to blame for killing unarmed students? what role did the students have? were the guardsmen's lives at risk? was there an order to fire? for the word learn, shortly

after the kent state shootings i realized that kent protests and subsequent killings of students precipitated the closing of colleges and universities around the country. i remember reading about this in the local paper and watching it on television news. it was later estimated that more than 4 million students at more than half the 2,551 colleges and universities in the country went on strike during the week of may 4th. in response to -- this is in response to the kent state shootings, making it the largest student protest in history. the last word is reflect.

i always have been open and willing to share my kent state photos and memories. i have given talks in public schools to all grade levels, college class and local community groups. however, my proudest moment was october of 2016. i told my story about the kent state tragedy and protest at hanoi university where i was invited to speak to 200 english speaking undergraduates. this couldn't have been possible without the help from kent state international department. these young students that heard about the protests in the united states -- had heard from parents and aunts and uncles. this was the first time they heard the story from someone who was there and was a primary witness. the other thing that made this so important to me was the students at hanoi university and their parents and grandparents recognized that the sacrifice at kent state and all the college campuses that protested the war in 1970 was what actually determined the ending of the vietnam war, because then within ten months of what happened at

kent state, 90% of the troops were leaving or scheduled to leave. they recognized that. i think they really responded to what i had to say. the people i told you about, allison krause, andy shoyer and jeffrey miller, those are the four students who died. nine were wounded and one was crippled for life from the waist down. i would like to turn this over. any questions anybody would have. i would be sure to share more than i have here. [ applause ] yes. >> i'm interested in your transition from a family that had many people in the military and the military that you served in and how, if, how, your experience in the military affected your view of what was going on, if you became an anti-war activist at some point or just even anti-war without being an activist. i'm just interested in that transition or relationship. >> well, growing up in a family of seven boys born eight years

apart and my dad never drove, we actually didn't have money for college. as a young poor middle class kid, i stayed out of school for a year working several jobs. trying to go to an extension school but realizing it's not going to work out very well. a friend came in and decided he was -- he had just joined the air force. asked me if i wanted to join. didn't take a half a second. i'm with you. i was ready to go. as far as the war goes, sure, i was against the war. but i knew if i didn't enlist and get g.i. bill money, i could be something other than what i was. in 1965, when i enlisted, when

you got to your draft place, if they drafted you, if the marines didn't have enough marines to fill their quota, you are a marine, you are a marine. air force and navy didn't have that problem. so i thought it was better to enlist instead of taking my chances of being an army or marine. when i was in the service, i probably didn't have the same experience lots of people did. i have a brother who was a mechanic in vietnam. i have run that built roads in vietnam for two years. i wrote press releases in waco, texas and directed tv in the philippines. my view of the war was the same.

i didn't think it was just. i had no reason to believe we needed to be there. when i got to kent state, i held that view. my personal desire to do photography was stronger than my desire to be a protester. so i chose that. i had to keep myself a little bit more objective than do one side or the other. yes. >> why do you think the national guard opened fire? >> i can explain that, really. it's quite strange. when governor rhodes -- this is in the book. when governor rhodes arrived on campus, he went and did his public appearance. then he had a private appearance in the firehouse with the -- i don't believe there were kent state officials or administrators there. fire chief, state police, national guardsmen, reporters. his words were being broadcast also to the -- i don't want to call them dormitories, but national guard were. he made it very clear at the fire station a -- he said these students are worse than the brown shirts of world war ii. we are not going to let them get

away with anything. this kind of stuff is going to stop here. they are no longer going to burn down our million dollar buildings. the building was a 1942 world war ii barracks, worth about $100,000, maybe. he gave the guard in that talk, which people could hear, permission to use any force they could to stop the protesting. what became -- becomes confusing and is probably something that needs more answering than whether the guard were -- had an order to fire was why did the university administration give

up their role and protect their students and why did they feel they had to give up their position to the ohio governor at that time? the ohio governor -- when governor rhodes took control of the university, he gave permission to the generals to do whatever they could to stop rioting. that included that there would be no protests of any kind, peaceful or otherwise, no gathering of students. at 12:15 on may 4th, a jeep went around where the students were gathering and told the students they had to disburse or suffer the consequences. at that point in time, we didn't know it, but their guns were locked and loaded. their bayonets were out. they had gas masks on. even though -- if i were to go back to that one photograph, the people in the front of the

crowd, maybe three to 500 protesters, behind them were people who said, you know, maybe cheerleaders or whatever, and behind that you had onlookers. this was a school of 18,000 students. the number of real protesters was fairly small. without any further, the guard just said, they had permission to disburse the crowd. the problem is they didn't have a plan b. kent is a huge campus. like many college campuses. they chased them. they disappeared. when you look at the book, you see that the guard ended up in a practice football field surrounded by a chain-link fence. they had nowhere to go. the students gathered in front of them. they could have gone down back to the rotc building very easily

and avoided any confrontation. but they chose to disburse the students. from a military standpoint, they chose to do it by chasing them up a hill and giving the guard a 20-foot advantage over the parking lot and football field. when they reached that spot, there's a certain number of guard that turned and fired. we don't know if -- a lot of conspiracy things about was there an order to fire. some people say there were. some people say there might have been a gunshot. it doesn't matter, because the guard claimed their lives were in danger. we know that to be a lie. regardless of what the guard had said, they shot and fired. it took ten years for one guardsman to admit to a reporter that he intentionally stood there and shot two bullets into joe lewis, the student who was 60 feet in front of the guard when they fired.

there's a lot of secrets, a lot we don't know. we do know the guard got away with murder that day. >> along that line, there was a report that there was a tape where the word fire was heard. >> right. >> have you heard that or any opinion on that? >> i have heard about the tape. i know who has the tape. the person who -- the audiologist who did the -- listened to it, he passed away. he can't testify to anything anymore. i think it's interesting. i was 80 feet in front of the guard when they fired. i didn't hear anything. it could have happened. to me it doesn't matter.

i feel that there was a group of guardsmen -- there were a group of older more seasoned guardsmen. and it seems that they are the ones who stayed back as they marched up to the hill. it was only that certain group who turned and fired. if you go back and look at that picture, you will see the general is far ahead. that's one of the things that is confusing about kent, because no one knows who had control of the university. martial law was never officially proclaimed. but is often thought it was there. the ohio telephone operators, they have a procedure if a school or any unit or place in town is under martial law, they cut all telephone lines. they were of the impression it was under martial law. >> you said they were? >> they were under the impression it was under martial law but it had never been officially documented.

>> back to the comment about whether somebody said fire. how much noise were the protesters making per your per, at that crucial point? >> actually, there was no noise. the guard was walking up the hill, students were watching them, i was watching them. i was kind of alert. i was trying to keep my eyes and ears open and trying to be ready for anything that might happen. i looked for rocks to be thrown. i did not see anything, did not feel anything, and i did not hear anything. there wasn't really any noise at that point in time until they turned and fired. then it became -- you know, to this day, i still get shook up or have a reaction to helicopters flying overhead

with searchlights or ambulances racing down a street. i can still see kids being put on gurneys and hauled away from campus that day. yes? >> sort of as a recap, how does this incident compare to any other university campus violence at the time? was this a huge deal? as far as i can remember being really young was that there was violence in berkley and ucla had a riot. i mean, was this vastly larger than those other larger places? it seems like ohio is kind of not really on the board. >> i cannot speak completely for those other universities, but i know i had gone to ohio state several times before the

incident at kent state and i had seen national guard in parking lots and protesting, and i think it was more pronounced at other schools, but the burning of the rotc building, which happened on campus at that particular time, was the straw that broke the camels back for the governor. and the fact he was running for public office at a high level. i would think that is what i would attribute kent state's situation or tragedy to be all about. schools in east columbia, and a lot of violence, berkley had violence, but not the kind of violence that precipitated the national guard to stop anybody physically like they did at kent. it became a political thing because governor rhodes was there, and it was a new mayor. friday evening, there was some

roughhousing going on after the cambodia invasion. some trash cans were set on fire at midnight. the mayor immediately called for curfew for the town and demanded there be a curfew on campus. it all gets down to who is in control of what. we did not know who was in charge, and for the record, the president of kent state university, robert white, at 12:00 on monday, may 4, was having lunch at the brown derby 20 minutes away with one of the other generals who was in charge of the national guard. give you an idea of what's going on. post-may 4, then there were massive demonstrations at universities across the country. i lived in seattle at the time, and at the university of

washington, maybe as many as 10,000 students decided to march downtown to the federal courthouse in protest, and they marched out onto interstate five and shut down the freeway, but in effect said and certainly implied that it was not unusual for universities to insist -- public as well as private -- to insist on their police forces, the university police retaining control over law enforcement on the campus, and that is what was the case at the university of washington at that time. the university president absolutely insisted that neither the state patrol nor the seattle police department

were to come on campus without express permission from the university. >> i think that is what happened at kent. the mayor gave in very easily, called governor rhodes, who sent the troops in. troops came in. it was friday. the building was burned on saturday, and i was watching the troops role in, you know, under the cover of darkness. it was 2:00 in the morning. students are still awake, in their dorms. no one could see them. we wake up and we have the national guard. if the national guard had not been there, i'm not sure there would have been a problem at all. students went to rallies back in those days for one thing, right? to get information, really. a rally was not to storm or take over a building. that was decided at the rally,

but the rallies were to get information, to see what you were going to do, what you believe, what you did not believe. we did not have instant information. remind the younger readers that we did not have cell phones. we did not have a tv in every room. let me say one other thing about the book before we close things out. another intent on the book 50 years later, and it's very timely right now, is that back in the 1960's and early 1970's, we saw a lot of passion. we would end the war. there was a lot of passion with students in our schools. today, that passion is just beginning again with the youth of the united states to end gun violence, climate control, and i'm hoping that the book will help them understand, you know, keep your passion, keep the fight. you are going to have to make some sacrifices, but you can make a change. the book is more than just a reflection of kent state. it is a hope for future students and generations to

know that they can make change by being passionate about something. >> what motivated you to put this book together? was it that someone told you to do it, or you sat there and said, i want to leave -- the whole thing of using it as a teaching tool? >> i know i had all these photographs and i just did not know what to do with them. my wife and i have real close friends who are phd's in history and teach history at colleges. they also have a cabin in casper, wyoming. we were up there for a while visiting and spent some time with them. jeff looks at me and says, "howard, whenever i with somebody, it usually gets around to kent state, and jeff says, " you know, howard, you are an eyewitness. you are a primary witness. you need to write that book."

they gave me a good kick in the butt, so to say. we have another close friend who lives in brooklyn, new york, named michael mcdonald, and he wrote a book called "all souls, " which i highly recommend. it's about south boston where he grew up, and it's about a family of 11 or 12, and it's about whitey bulger. i asked how i get this started. i wanted to do this and i did not have a clue, and i taught english for two years in high school. he said well, there is my writing desk, and this is what i did. you get all that rough stuff out of your head, and then you get organized and focus. that is how it all got started. it took about -- actually, it took about three years.

so it was a long process, but it was something i wanted to get done. as the only photographer there for the entire weekend, i have the only record. i was hired by "life" on may 4 to be a stringer. the rest of the time, it was just me doing what i was compelled to do. i went to kent on the g.i. bill. i had nothing to do. had two roommates, five dollars a week spending money. you know, i had free film, so what better thing to do with free film then take pictures? a few more questions. >> didn't anyone think these are the kids of affluent citizens, and what are the repercussions? this was a horrible decision, and what were the positions of

these parents who are slaving to send their kids to college and then to have them slaughtered? what were the the repercussions? we know the tragedy but what were the consequences? >> some of the students went home. i know somebody who has a masters in journalism, and her dad said if you were involved in the protesting, you should have been shot. the conservative nature back then -- i think you have to look at the generational thing. if your dad or uncle had gone to world war ii and fought in the war and you did not want to fight in a war, they did not think you were very manly. they did not understand there was a difference because of that generation. they fought for something that was meaningful and we were

trying to, you know, say that you need to be democratic here, not communist and sending people over to get shot. we were protecting ourselves. we were just advancing ourselves. in terms of repercussions for the national guard, they went to trial twice. i was a lead witness at both civil trials at the courts. the witness stand three days, advanced only photography. the first time they actually were convicted, but then it was thrown out and appealed. so they had a second trial, and that was in 1978. i was on the witness stand. after my three days, they got the second witness up there and while he was up there, the judge came out and said, "we've reached a conclusion." the government and court had agreed to a settlement with regard --

the guard writing a letter of -- they did not want to say it was a letter saying they were sorry, it was a letter saying that they wish it could have been handled in a different way, and the judge awarded the plaintiff $650,000. the reason for this was dean taylor, who had been wounded and paralyzed from the waist down -- he did not have a rich family and is still paralyzed, so they gave him $450,000. part of the settlement was to end the whole thing and get to help people out, people who died, parents of children who were killed, but most of it went to dean taylor so he could live the rest of his life. he worked for the state of ohio. he has been a teacher. he is in a wheelchair. he does wheelchair races every

weekend. he is still alive and well, lives in kent. pardon? yeah, but he's -- actually, i have a photograph. he called me one day and said you know, that photograph you have over there? he said i've never seen that photograph before and that's the last photograph taken of me standing. one last question, i guess. >> how did you maintain your ability to take photographs on such an emotional day? >> yeah, really. >> i have been asked that several times. maybe i have -- i have an ability to not let my emotions get involved with my work, and that's -- it's kind of difficult because when i got down -- you know, we all thought they were shooting

blanks or over their heads. the bullets they were shooting, there is a sculpture on the campus, a metal sculpture with 3/8-inch thick steel. some of the bullets were armor piercing and went right through that steel. i maintained awareness of myself. i had a job to do and i maintained that sense of separateness. i was even told or asked to stop taking pictures by some people on campus. i just told them i had to keep taking pictures because people had to know what actually happened. but if i was taking pictures and somebody looked at me and said don't take my picture, i certainly would not have taken it. and the person on the cover of "life" magazine, if there was nobody coming to his aid, i would have put my camera down and help them. i have done that in other

situations where somebody was down and hurt, it was not a picture opportunity. you cannot let your feelings sometimes get in the way of your job. it's tough. i thank you for coming tonight. [applause],2y >> thank you all again for coming tonight. we now are going to move onto the signing portion of the event. we ask that you do please buy a book before getting it signed. you can find copies on the table as well as that shelf on the left and you can buy them at our registers downstairs or at will call across the hall. hope you have a great night. thank you.

>> the entire communist military operation in south vietnam. this key control center has been occupied by the north vietnamese and viet cong for five years, in blatant violation of cambodia's neutrality. this is not an invasion of cambodia. the areas in which these attacks are launched are