cia officer and author, the origins of the cold war. up next he talks about the origin of inter logistics gathering from world war ii. the establishment of the cia in 1947. allies from president truman case were instrumental. the international spy museum recorded the event in november of 2017. >> we're very fortunate to have an old friend with us tonight. a former officer with the cia clandestine service. he was in the directors operations, as well the office of congressional affairs, and the study of intelligence review as the deputy director. ages you 1972. >> after two years, also with

the u.s. military command in vietnam, with his retirement from the cia he went to the georgetown school foreign service. he's also founding member, and is the author of a new book the foundations of the cia harry truman, and the origins of a cold war. rick, come on up. >> think you all for coming out when you could be at the christmas market across the street. i appreciate that. as vince said i've been with the sea i a for going on 50 years. for the last 20 years i've

taught intelligence in georgetown. in teaching their at george town i've discovered from participating with the museum that there's a great interest in the cia and the general subject of national intelligence. also considerable misunderstanding, suspicion and outright hostile itty about national intelligence. so one of the reasons that i wrote this book is as a primer to try to explain not to knowledgeable people like yourself or my colleague, but the general public what it is that the intelligence community does, and the kinds of functions and capability we have. but also the kinds of

challenges we have. so what i wanted to do was, you'll forgive me for reading from notes, but my class is two and a half hours long so i'm used to speaking excessively for two and a half hours and i know known if you want that. let me read this. this is a simple little book about how the modern u.s. establishment was created, but also to highlight major intelligence function, by focusing on important themes, episodes, and lessons. i want to emphasize that these are not necessarily lessons that we learned. or that we remembered.

it's also about the men, because the missouri game were all men, who conceived and implemented the vision of international intelligence service and the face of widespread opposition and multiple near death experiences. the only thing new and the world is history that you don't know. as someone else said it's the job to all over again. the theme of repeatedly having to re-learn the same lessons over and over again runs from the early days of the oas as right down to the president. some of the experiences of early see i a officers would

seem very familiar to our colleague today. because i'm a historian myself, let me step back and remind you that every advance undertakes what deputy state mourner, describes as foreign entity influence. there we have technology in action. 20 mendes, another member of the board has pointed out at some point technology will let you down. remember that. throughout our history, the u.s. has repeatedly conducted impressive intelligence drink wartime but then forgotten or

upended the discipline in wartime. that's a scene that goes through the revolution. anyone that has served in the 19 nineties will remember the cold war peace dividend. remember that? we've defeated the soviet union, there is gonna be no more history and we won't have this peace dividend. and for those of us in the business, it means that we went down 25% in budget, 25% in personnel in the 1990s. just in time for 9/11. the u.s. was filled with a great respect for u.s. intelligence. george washington can be considered the first national intelligence. but the u.s. was slow to join

the great power, great game. the greek game is called that because it's based on a book by richard cabling. a book he wrote in 1901 about afghanistan. so we were a little late to this great game. in fact, the first permanent intelligence agency was the office of naval intelligence in 1882. it was created in response to the growing power and reach of the super weapons of the day. these were battleships. first time that foreigners, foreign powers could credibly project power in a way that would really threatened in it in states. in the 18 eighties the united

states with the 12 largest in the world, even smaller than brazil. but in 1945 you'll notice quite a number of u.s. naval officers, world war i shows we were an intelligence. that's a direct quote from eight intelligence officer named john allen. there he is. led by herbert, who did in quest of work. after the first world war, guess what the united states did again? the experience wasn't allowed to go to waste after the war.

we faced a global threat in the thirties. by then only a few good practitioners remained as well as a handful of amateurs. i will briefly discuss a number of these characters. many members of the missouri gang. for more details you'll have to read my book, or ask me questions after the presentation. here we have truman in the middle. we have his military, chief of staff for the commander in chief. we have the first dci, the second, not from missouri. and on the other side we have the first director of the cia.

we have leery houston as well who was general counsel, also from the cia. so a good number of these people were in fact from missouri. but the reason why they were called the missouri gang was not a compliment. in kansas city, harry truman during the first world war volunteered military and artillery units that served on the western front. he later became the approval and support of the pendergast machine. first is county executive, mayor of kansas city, and then senator, from missouri. in fact pendergast, kansas city,

the dance halls and stuff. he was originally called the senator from pendergast. richard gee daily, something like that. in st. lewis, very wholesome, carnival in 1904. the son of german american mail carrier earned his commission. he had an outstanding record, then served aboard ship and then staff officer. he taught romance languages, and excelled, for a uniformed

officer in paris. finally, businessmen sydney worked his way up through st. louis. getting to know fellow businessman. new york businessmen james forestall, who will shut up later in my story and show up as a naval residents, of all the men in the cia, he had the most actual intelligence experience, left the fewest footprints or record. and i have to tell you, it was very very difficult to find out much about the sky, even though he was the first director of

the cia, and really had quite a distinguished career. now i'm going to say something that is sort of against my interests, but if you look at the cia's magazine, from march 2016, available free online. i wrote and article about military education, which is essentially a time when he served in france, and after pearl harbor was a chief in the pacific in 1942, 43. so they had a remarkably wide ranging area, for a gray

officer. he served in france during turbulent years during the 30s until 41, the spanish civil war, it was nazi germany and the soviet union used war to practice wargames. just two years later, the germans turned those practices first on poland and then western europe. it was a time of aggressive nazi expansionism, there for the first more, and in paris when the germans march ten. he exercised and demonstrated all the collection, reporting, analytic, and operational skills of a classic field

officer. here we have a picture of him, that is from his 1920 u.s. navy academy yearbook. here is kind of an example of the world he was in. he demonstrated collection reporting and operational skills as a classical field case officer, and in this case what he did was he took april, probe of the german land, here is the german lee burke or, who were building fortification,

and here's the new mechanized equipment that the germans were using. he would drive around because he spoke need of german, as well as spanish and french. he would pick up gi soldiers, or libra court guys, he'd say i'm an american, tell me what you guys are up to. he got remarkable reports on fortification, various kinds of military facility that they were building. this was also a period where there were repeated wars here in western europe. repeated panic. the picture on the left there

is people fleeing from paris, not during the actual war be because they got panicked. finally he serves under the chief naval operations, the commander and chief. the picture on the side is the ambassador to occupy france, and that is his military staff, presenting his credentials to the v she, and the guy next to

him, the third to the right douglas mcarthur the second. not mcarthur's son but his nephew. then you of the lady in the middle. he was in france on the 14th of june when the nazis merged into paris. the ambassadors decided to leave the military, so that they could de-brief and try to elicit information from the german governor of paris, the general happened himself to be a military attaché in warsaw. so he said to his army, buddy,

i understand what attaché's do. you are here to gather information. ask whatever you want. he was asked how are you going to invade england. he said we have it worked out, in six weeks the world will be over, which shows something. anyway, helen carter transferred back, in november 1941, and his battleship sent out from under him, on december seven. this is west virginia, he was the senior surviving officer on

the ship. now those of you know the spy museum well, may recognize the image of the flag right over there. the museum has an excellent video, which they show called ground troops. have any of you cnet? it's a fantastic video but unfortunately it's not running these days. it basically talks about the importance of intelligence, and how critical it is to national success, and that's the final image on that video. it happens to be the flag of the ship. it's kind of fitting that the spy museum would show an image

the dates back to the former director of cia. then he became part of the disorganized and overwhelmed intelligence center. now this is another one of those things that will happen over and over again. he took over this intelligence center in the chaos immediately after pearl harbor. he didn't have enough staff, didn't have the proper kind people, the skills he needed. he was told it was going to be déjà vu all over again to the point where he becomes the director of the cia. his predecessors were kicked to the side by eight washington rival trying to shift blame

from pearl harbor onto this japanese linguist and cryptography are. again, another lesson, whatever something goes wrong blame someone else. ideally, blame someone who is not guilty. my editorial comment. in mid 42, he and his intelligence center, pacific ocean area found itself in a similar crisis to the central intelligence group that was inherited in mid 1947 from directors of central intelligence, so again, who five years leader he will find

himself in a similar pickle. back in 1941, franklin roosevelt had been tried, strategic national intelligence out of the death for. there wasn't any structural at all. in july 1941, an ambitious aggressive and equally improvisational republican new york lawyer and world war i, william donovan to be his coordinator of information over the bitter and unrelenting opposition of the fbi and military and naval intelligence. this is donovan's favorite picture of himself showing him as a world war i hero and congressional medal of honor

winner. there he is as director, and here is a 1946 aerial photograph showing -- you've got the lincoln memorial here. you've got 23rd street. you've got the potomac river. there is the original headquarters of the uss and cia. this is now the kennedy center. this theme of fraternal hostility runs through the whole story, and of course repeated during the late forties and early 50s, with the foundation of the cia, or for that matter, it is repeated in 2005 with the creation of the director of national intelligence. if you remember the law net to

place when the dni was established in 2005. if intelligence is all about understanding, and i think it is, then the most important function is research and analysis. co-leading, evaluating and waiting weighing fragmentary, ambiguous and contradictory and often deliberately misleading information. it is not just that we don't have the whole picture. it is that our adversaries are sometimes actively trying to mislead us. if you don't believe that that happens today, look at the cover of the washington post says tomorrow morning, or maybe today. says these challenges are shared by historians, journalists and intelligence officers, and i'm both historian and an intelligence

officer, so i can tell you, these are major challenges. two of these intelligence officers were ivy league historians, who essentially invented the discipline of national strategic analysis. and the cia's analytic college today is named from sherman kent. the oasis and cia are almost unique, and this is true still today, are almost unique in putting scholars and analysis at the center of the intelligence process. still, thrown into a global war, donovan naturally followed the british model espionage, which the oasis called the secret intelligence and covert action,

which the british called, and we called, special operations. covert action, as you know, ranges from influence operations to propaganda, sabotage, working with allies and liaison, all the way to rallying indigenous resistance and supporting military operations. here, we have a couple of examples of that. this is the first time we see women in the picture, by the way. donovan also encouraged the development of enabling technology and spy gear. the picture in the middle is a jet burke team just about to parachute into occupied france. on the far side, you have

virginia hall. the picture of the third one over there, is the portrait of virginia all, which hangs in the cia today. donovan awarding her the distinguished service medal. how we got here is thanks to world war ii. the united states emerged as the only an wounded global superpower. every other great nation was grievously crippled by the second world war, but we came through remarkably unscathed. thanks to donovan, during the war, the u.s. created a unique intelligence framework. by unique, i mean they combine not only espionage and direct action, covert operations and things of that sort, but also analysis.

the only other service in the world that does that is the german be andy. the reason they do was because they were created by the cia and followed the oasis and cia model. the war also gave us for senator, then vice president and finally president harry truman, who unlike roosevelt, was organized, systematic, history minded, and fact oriented. finally, the war left us facing the nuclear cold war against an aggressive expansionist soviet union, and gave us harry truman's missouri gang to create a new national security framework, including, among other things, the cia. here we have practically the first time truman and roosevelt ever met each other, and that

was just after truman had been named roosevelt's vice presidential running mate in 1944. everybody knew roosevelt was essentially mortally ill, and was not going to survive says the fourth term. and so truman was chosen as a compromised running mate for roosevelt, says the because unlike when dull wilkie, he was not in northeastern liberal, and unlike senator jimmy burn, he was not a segregationist. he was a solid, midwestern you dealer. by the way, he's only two years younger than roosevelt. he is 60 and that picture, and roosevelt is 62. the next picture, april 12th,

1945, he is being sworn in. as with hill in qatar and the u.s. navy after pearl harbor, truman in april 1945, had no time to find his footing before he was pushed on to the global stage to face with winston churchill and joseph stalin. he's also facing the decision to deploy the atomic bomb against japan. this is july 1945 and as you know the next month he decided to drop the atomic bomb. that was the casablanca summit in 1943. europe was seen as the central focus to the global war and the division of post war europe

that had already been -- at you all touches before roosevelt died. there was not any question anymore that the russians were going to get all of eastern europe. iowa says chief allen, there in the middle, was appointed to run with says germany and many oasis officers were shipped into the far east where the war was still going on. in the picture on the right, you see on his right is another future director of the cia, richard healths. at the end of the war and september of 1945 the u.s. served as the only nuclear arms global superpower and the uss was almost a global servant with broad strategic and

tactical intelligence function and capabilities. here you have all the hosts always says offices in western europe, and north africa, and there you have them all in southeast asia. this is in the end of 1944 early 1945. you notice there is no presence in latin america. and that is another reason, because of all the rivalries, the fbi exercised exclusive control over activities in latin america. the uss never got in there. unfortunately, the oasis was also a temporary wartime agency, which by law, had to be immediately disbanded at the end of the war. as it was, within three weeks

of the formal japanese surrender at tokyo bay. so three weeks after the japanese surrendered, the oasis was abolished. basically, this whole infrastructure and most of the 13,000 to 14,000 members of the uss were suddenly, out of jobs. almost immediately thereafter, almost the entire active duty army and navy were also abolished. we went from 16 million men in the army and navy, down to less than 1 million. without a doubt, that was the world's greatest peace dividend. vastly more than what happened after the fall of the berlin wall. however, i the war, along with

the truman doctrine and the martial plan, and also, actually, the demobilization of the american military, transformed the western world, because all those soldiers came home. they all get the gi bill. they all got married and started having babies. they all bought houses under gi loans. they all went to college, and the boom that the united states enjoyed in the fifties and sixties is largely due to the demobilization. the martial plan and the truman doctrine also managed to stabilize and rebuild western europe. as the soviet union consolidated its hold on eastern europe, truman, who considered donovan as self promoter ignored the call for a peace time strategic intelligence service, and

simply wiped out the oasis. this considerable controversy to that, whether it was sort of long headed on truman's part, the point was that as a temporary organization, the oasis could not continue. it had to be dissolved. and so it was. but truman was painfully aware of the wars fragmentation, disorganization, and interest service rivalries had contributed to pearl harbor, and he wanted to create a new post war military and national intelligence structure. so he did. very consciously wanted to get something in place to prepare the united states for the post war world. to do so, he turned to the military chief of staff, former

ambassador admiral and his white house lawyer, as well as to a business friend and secretary of navy james forced. deputy chief of naval intelligence dug, admiral sydney sours. truman may have been an unlikely and underestimated president, but sours was an even more improbable intelligence manager. , unlike helen counter or even alan dulles, he had almost no practical intelligence experience. he basically had run grocery stores, banks and insurance companies before the war. he frankly admit that he got his position as deputy chief of the office of naval intelligence, thanks to his

friendship with forestall, because he was bored and lonesome. as local naval intelligence chief and charleston, south carolina and san juan puerto rico. there is sours on the floor and there. his primary claim to fame in charleston was de the first german u-boat crew, captured off the united states. there is styler's, a british navy officer and two german u-boat ceo w. and another naval intelligence officer. that is basically what sours did. he was a navy commander. he got promoted to rear admiral. wound up as deputy chief of naval intelligence, and was brought in to help create the new national intelligence structure, because he

understood the military position on how the new post war organization should be created. now the next two years were like the world's most convoluted opera, with scheming, intriguing backstabbing and histrionics. most of them focused on the creation of the new national defense establishment, rather than the new national intelligence establishment, which was the cia. so everybody was occupied with fighting about whether they were going to have more aircraft carriers or more strategic bombers. the air force and the navy were fighting now, and in the meantime they were just trying to put the new cia under the

radar. early agency and other military had concentrated on all of the maneuvering, so i'm not going to do that, and i didn't do much in the book either. well out of the washington snapping had spent the war, here is his flagship. and the destroyers next to it. immediately after the war it took crews to greece and turkey.

this is when communists were threatening both grease, yugoslavia, and turkey, by sending them to the battleship, truman was emphasizing that the united states has military power, indirectly reminding people we have the atomic bomb. he then returned to paris as a military attaché. there he is on the far right as military attaché. however, as you can see from the picture during his missouri command, there he is with a bunch of sailors from the ship who happened to be born in missouri. he was visiting st. louis, sort of on a vip, welcome back.

one of the sailors was black. so he proved himself in a episode that i recount in the book, a civil rights trail blazer in every of 96, two years before truman integrated the u.s. military. he brought the black sailor with him and insisted he participate alongside all the whites in the festivities that took place. he was also amazingly a defender of a persecuted lgbt manager. so here he is. pioneer of civil rights. high near of defending

homosexuals. before being recalled to take over the intelligence group. but they had both been directors of central intelligence, but there was no cia at that point. there was only a very small central intelligence group. so he was the first dci that commanded the cia a, created in september of 1947 under the national security act. from sours, to rear admiral, to walter beetle smith, they

wanted the shock of creating a national intelligence service in the face of highly skilled, organized soviet adversary. and in an atmosphere of domestic international crises. some i detail in the book as a specific kind of crises. here we have the inventors of a high five as i understand. here we have harry truman swearing in several members of the cia, and the member of defense research board. this is september ten, 1947. there you have the national

security council, someone pointed out a few people over here. here you have truman, here you have the secretary of state, state. here you have the dci. and he stayed with truman, as the director of the federal intelligence. he helped create the cia, and a national security structure. he stayed on as an executive secretary treasurer of the security council. so there you have a whole bunch. his however, in the face of

hostility from these washington enemies, most of whom at ranked him, and one of whom coveted his job. he lasted for three eventful years before returning to the fleet to fight the war. in part, the final blow to his position was the korean war. this time he went to korea as a commander, that's his flagship. you'll notice that today the turnover to beetle smith, is one of the few pictures of hillenkoetter smiling.

he's happy to be out of their he's on the deck of a battleship. here you have frank winds are. he was a director didn't, adore he provided espionage, the homosexual who was actually working for this cia employee. it distinguished officer. here we have larry houston. another missouri and who was the general counsel.

he was never heard of again, until february of 1906, when he wrote an astonishing letter to the new york times. what could he have been writing about? key for some reason i've never been able to figure out a member of a private french group called the investigative committee on aerial phenomenon. he complained in that letter in 1960, about u.s. government efforts to conceal the existence of ufos. where that came from, i have no idea. this led to a internal see eye a debate about whether to tell him.

houston and the other senior members, they said gee, maybe we should tell him that there is in fact this secret airplane. they decided not to do, it but it became spectacularly public two years later and the 1st of may in 1960 would get republicans was shot down over russia. so helen was only half wrong, he is now today figure in the u.s. ufo community. if you google him, the first thing that pops up is all this conspiracy stuff about ufos. everyone remembers curtis

limaye? going back to the stone age. the two were supposedly honored with a aircraft carrier spaceship, allegedly launched by the u.s. government in 1988 at the end of the reagan administration. there is a picture today, today u.s. assess part of the solar, that the united states launched, supposedly. i can neither confirm nor deny. the last word about the cia concerns harry truman. he began pestering as first

director of intelligence, with the demand, where is my newspaper. almost 20 years later, even after a very public denunciation of how the cia had strayed, truman also wrote below his official portrait at the cia headquarters, that the cia is a necessity to the president of the united states, from one who knows. that's the first presidential portrait in the sea at a headquarters and that's the instruction. that's basically the story that i wanted to tell you. in a i left a lot out because clearly i'd enjoy it if you read the book. i think you find it interesting. the pictures are from the book.

i would just leave you with a couple of thoughts. when is harry truman, the only thing new in the world is history you don't know. that is actually not a made-up quote. says it is from miller's plain speaking. it is a direct quote. then again, déjà vu all over again. never let yuck the natural national interest and in the way of protecting your -- that's the way washington worked. and sometimes your worst enemies are your brothers. that is anthony. this very year. the intrigue that went on here in the united states, a painful lesson that the uss learned overseas that we have to keep learning over and over again.

if you have any questions about that, i'd be happy to answer them. i can read you some more food of this. i think that's enough for now. thank you all very much. already (applause) any questions? microphone. >> you spoke about moral carter. in a positive light. considering the literature that even the cia puts out today. they don't talk very positively about him. you mentioned that there is a lack of documentation in his early involvement. it seems to me there's a lack of documentation, period, from the time the odds this was

disbanded up until the cia was founded. any reason why there's so little documentation? >> says in terms of why there is not more documentation -- first of all, in the early years, both of the oasis and the cia, the people involved the congress and the government and general -- in fact there is another excellent book called the cia and congress. it goes into great depth about the creation. carter himself was not involved in the creation. he was a naval attaché at that period. you may find this hard to believe, but government records are not always well organized,

and they are not perfect. i spent many frustrating days in the national archives, going back over the u.s. navy to try to get something about hillenkoetter's experience. the frustrating thing about hillenkoetter, as if you look at history -- by turning immediately to the in-depth, looking for your name, while i did that with hillenkoetter. i would look at history and turn to the index and try to find hillenkoetter. i was lucky to find a phrase, little lone a sentence. it really wasn't very much. he kept an official diary when he was director the cia, but there is very little in that he never wrote anything himself

except in the 1930s when he was a military attaché. the national archives had the original paper with these original ink signatures on it. but that's it. he only had one child who died, apparently unmarried. he just sort of disappeared. on the other hand, i kept a diary every day of his life. many of these diaries were published. truman, of course had a lot of stuff written about him. everybody writes about donovan. nobody writes much about sydney souers. souers however, set for a couple of cia interviews which were originally classified.

souers was a very interesting guy because he had a very sharp tongue. some of his more unvarnished opinions are really very interesting. but it is the very small body of work even on him. if you go to the truman library you'll see that souers remained a good front of truman throughout the end of his life. the papers are one lynn your foot. the only one who really wrote very much -- clifford of course, but clifford waited until the 19 eighties to write his memoirs. you are sort of left sort of scrambling. these people are very opaque. it is very frustrating to see how little you really can find

out about him. that is why, i think, he is underappreciated. at the time, when he was confirmed as director of the c i a in the fall of 1947, it was unanimous vote to reconfirm him. they actually had him in very high regards. i said he was there in a very difficult period. a lot of things happened while he was dci. he got blamed for a lot of it. for the atomic bomb, and it took us about a month to figure out they had done it. china -- and of course the korean war. but at that point the sea i a i

was not the vast global organization that we have today. it was just a very small group of people who are scrambling to try to put together -- it's kind of like the expression when you are up to your butt in -- it's hard to remember that your mission was to save the world for democracy. also, a lot of the things that the oasis tried and failed at during the second world war. people like frank tried again in the early 1960s. they failed again. so two weeks ago john was here, talking about his book. it was an unending litany of failures and screw ups or

malice or incompetence. what i would like to remind you is that these folks were all honorable patriotic people who were trying the best they could under very difficult circumstances. not everybody had the same vision of what the best was. jay edgar huggers vision was very different from hillenkoetter's vision. >> i want to ask you a question that related back to john. it was just very much about the role -- the documentation you've been talking about. john referenced truman's -- wearing a big hat. what did that mean?

he really said they were very kind of conversational. he was talking about documentation from the truman years and that this early foundation period that were, not conveying any substance. maybe i'm making this up. >> it is kind of interesting, because truman and souers both were very human people. truman is notorious for having written a very nasty letter to a music critic who had said nasty things about his daughter. he wrote how he was going to punch him in the face and kim in the whatever. big truman would form very strong opinions very quickly.

one of whom was dulles. the reason he did not like dulles was because dulles was a senior political adviser to john dewy, the governor of new york who is running against truman in 1948. dulles thought that when do we beat sherman, it was clear that was gonna happen. even the chicago tribune -- dulles was going to become the director of the cia. truman not only had strong opinion, but he was subject to forgetfulness, and in 1964, for example he wrote a letter to the washington post and said oh, the cia has gone terribly

wrong. they've straight off into overthrown governments and all covert action stuff. that'll have been under dulles. truman forgot that in 1947, when he created the cia, i he did specifically do things like covert action on behalf of democratic parties in elections of 1947. so, truman was not an opponent of a lot of these things going on. he just sort of changed his public position on it. souers also had very strong opinions. he didn't like him either. it felt like when it came to van dillen burger was only a director for about a year. fandom burden on the job.

brendan burke said look, i know you don't want to be director of central intelligence. you want to be chief of staff of the air force, when they created the air force. but they're not going to make you chief of staff of the air force just because you are handsome. you have to go and do something. these are the kind of stories that you get from, blesses heart, -- a lot of that stuff was originally classified, and the history of all the maneuver was classified as well. they were published eternally in the seat i a says. okay.

questions. >> how quickly did the cia establish race relationships with others around the world. i know that mi6 was a model of the cia originally. -- oasis and the uk. or those relationships between cia and other intelligence agencies were established -- ? >> one of the great military and telegenic historians has said that the american intelligence establishment, the oss, i was the greatest covert action that the british are accomplished. remember, i said that roosevelt ran foreign policy policy --

one of the things he did, i when we entered the second world war. he dispatched personal friends around the world. to sort of report to him on what was going on. they were relying upon the state department. they were actually supposed to do international affairs reporting. of all the people he dispatched was donovan. and the british intelligence team in washington send a note to london and said hey, donovan is coming to london. give him the vip treatment. he met the king. churchill greeted him. they had all of this red carpet rolled out. one of the results of that was donovan came back, and immediately started working with roosevelt to try to get linda lee destroyed.

that they would need to protect their convoys and things of that sort. the british actually sort of -- over donovan. and he oss was kind of created on the british model. and british techniques. the british train the first wave of oss officers. but that was the closest relationship from the very beginning. and the far east, for example, in places like thailand which were occupied by the japanese. the tie government had been -- twice by the japanese. they were sort of an undercover government and we're helping

the oss in thailand. in fact, the thailand police -- officers around the country with type police guards. so they were protecting them. it's much more ambiguous and places like france, where he had the loyalist fighting against the communist, fighting against the democrats. there wasn't really a stable government there. china was the same way with the nationalists in the war lords and communists. yugoslavia the same. you had loyalists and communists. the other intelligence service that really we worked with very closely from the beginning, was the one we invented. that is the west german federal

intelligence service, which started off as the galen or in ghana's asian which had been the nazi intelligence organization for the eastern army. in other words, the army fighting against the soviet union. after the war, galen volunteered in the organization to the u.s. army. that's when the cia was created in 1937. the cia basically took over. the galen organization and it became the federal intelligence service. it had the relationship -- was still very close. from the very beginning, working with indigenous peoples, or local resistance or governments. it's always been a part of the way the oss worked. incidentally, i'm detecting

that you are from the empire there. that was a cause of great conflict between us and the brits. particularly in southeast asia. the military command there was -- south east asian command. it was commanded by lord louis -- and the oss called the southeast asia command europe, asia had a colony. which is why the oss worked much more closely with ho chi minh then they did either with the british or the french. because not only did the oss recognize, but all of those

people recognize that all the brits and the french wanted to do was to come back in and take over the empires once the japanese were pushed out. >> if you could elaborate also on singapore and hong kong, stuff regarding what you were discussing when it comes to -- use territories after the japanese vacated. i'm curious to know where the key posts played a role in the greater scheme of things. >> i mentioned it in the book, but not in a good way. because the japanese, after the surprise attack on pearl harbor

-- there was no warning to prepare before the japanese moved against the philippines and hong kong and singapore. unaccountability, didn't do anything. yeah he left his armor's on the ground where the japanese destroyed them. the japanese just sort of swept right through there. mcarthur would never let the oss into his operational area. that's why they can only operate in thailand, indochina, burma, and then china. the areas, singapore and hong kong or sort of off limits to the oss. there is a relatively small colonial outpost says. it did not really play a

geopolitical role. i am not a fan of either mcarthur or dulles. sorry. >> my memory is kind of a, but if i remember correctly, -- was occupied. it seems it was an organization by the name of ceic. it was responsible for intelligence in japan and later on a source for the cia. is this mostly military personnel who were responsible for -- japan after the war? >> after he oss was abolished in 1945. there was still a very large military intelligence and naval

intelligence. these dated back to the 1880s. the oss focused on strategic intelligence for their analysts. people like sherman kent. and they concentrated on preparing before the invasion of normandy. but the army counter intelligence corps, were the ones that were part of the big green machine. with the oss left a 1945, everybody went home. the army counter intelligence corps in japan and the army counter intelligence corps in germany were basically what was left. what they were doing and germany, was basically denounce

-ification. they were going around trying to capture all of the ex nazis. especially the war criminals. the same thing happened to a certain extent in japan, even though they mcarthur was not -- and sort of the fascist of japan as they were in germany. it was the counter intelligence corps that got galen's organization, the ex nazi intelligence organization of 1945, and they ran it until 1947, basically. until the cia took over. there was considerable question about whether or not the cia was going to take the german

intel group, because they had all been nazi army officers. that two-year period was one where there are a lot of people scrambling around, basically military intelligence people trying to do what they could. both in the far east and europe, but the military was also shrinking. 16 million to half a billion -- so they were outnumbered. outgunned, out band. that's when a lot of things happened in western europe. how a lot of the ex nazis wound up in latin america. there were various efforts to try to get jewish refugees out of the concentration camps, and

a lot of eastern europeans displaced people who did not want to go back to places like hungary or czechoslovakia or east germany, once the communists took over. a lot of those people managed to get into the refugee channels who were nazis. because everybody just got overwhelmed. there was enough people and enough records to track everybody down. if john proudest wants to talk about how the cia helped nazis escape and wound up in latin america, in some cases it happened, but it was obviously not intentional. if you got 1000 refugees together, it's like what happened in europe and the last two years. with hundreds of thousands of

syrians and libyan's and everybody else trying to escape, trying to get into europe and the problems that the security forces and the police forces have an differentiating who is the legitimate refugee and who is an isis terrorist for example. it is not an easy time. okay. well ... >> we thank you so much. tonight, we look at edith roosevelt and helen taft. edith roosevelt, along with her husband theodore became the first president and first lady to travel abroad while in

office, where they made a trip to panama. taft was the first first lady to arrive with the president at the inaugural parade. watch first ladies influence and image, tonight at 8 pm eastern on american history tv on c-span 3.

a conversation between librarian of congress carla hated and smithsonian secretary lonnie bunch about how cultural institutions can come to the country's aide during difficult times. the library of congress provided this video.

>> hello, i'm carla hayden. as many of you know and have experienced this week, our country is facing many many challenges. the continuing struggle for human rights, civil rights and freedoms goes back to our founding. 's cultural institutions like libraries and museums are offering historical context, but also reexamining and continuing to look at how we present information and history to our republic, and making sure that we are part of the solution on the road, and not part of the problem. i am honored tonight, and today,