eastern on c-span3, online at c-span.org or listen live on the free c-span radio app. thursday at 10:00 a.m. eastern, nih director dr. cull ens and department assistant secretary testify before a senator appropriations subcommittee for review of operation warp speed, the researching, manufacturing, distributing of a safe and effective coronavirus vaccine. watch live coverage beginning at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span, on demand on c-span.org or listen on the free c-span radio app. c-span viewers know tom se ridge asrv the former governor pennsylvania, former secretary of homeland security. one of his projects has been to serve as co-chair of the group vote safe. secretary ridge, what is vote sn

safe? how did youu get involved?ir >> voteing safe is an apoliticar effort. i'm co-chairing this initiative with the former governor of michigan and the abject is to see on november 3rd that there are safe and secure options for the voting public, in-person balloting or absentee ballots. c we sent out letters to the 50 secretaries of state encouraging them to make sure that those options were open, in person, safe and security opportunities, likewise for absentee ballots. as governors, we both share then belief it's a shared financial d responsibility ased add well, b given the severe economic conditions, if they needed additional dollars to create and sustain both of those options,

we encourage them to insist that congress provides a little support. that's vote safe.dent we wantia options, safe and secure's senate elections, local elections, we want maximum participation. that's our goal. >> let's talk about the option of mail-in voting. wheth ji joining us a day after president trump expressed his concerns aka about mail-in voting and whethe: it would be secure, you say safl andy. secure. how do you make mail in voting safe and secure. >> it has been historically. pel interesting, the states on some of the envelopes remind people of thesi penalties for fraud, bh the significant financial penalties, potential imprisonment. the heritage foundation several weeks ago take a look at 250 200 million absentee ballots that had been cast over the past i

think it was 20 years. and they found that there have e beenn 200 cases of fraud that hd been litigated and people found guilty of improper actions. it's a somewhat fraudulent statement to suggest that historically there has been massive fraud in elections ' because of abuse of the absentee ballot process. i don't claim it to be a perfect system.00 c but theas infrequency of impropriety, remember, 200 cases out of 250 million suggests that thehe local officials, 8 to tion t 10,000, dohe a pretty good job monitoring absentee ballots. >> we mentioned thatat the president's series of tweets enl yesterday, he talking about asa mail-in voting by referring to his attorney general's interview on fox news over b the weekend

which he was asked a question about it. i want to play just a little bit of the interview and get you to respond. >> it opens the flood gates to fraud. they can be taken out. there's questions about whether or not it even denies a secret ballot because a lot of states have you signing the outside of the envelope. the person who opens the envelope will know how people voted. a foreign country could print up tens of thousands of counterfeit ballots and it would be very hard for us to detect which is the right or wrong ballot. it can upset and undercut the integrity of our elections. we should tighten them up right now. >> secretary ridge, a few concerns from the attorney general. >> well, i -- rare do you get an opportunity to publicly and respectfully disagree with the attorney general of the united

states. but i guess there's a first for everything. the fact of the matter is, the attorney general -- the opportunity to committee fraud has existed since the civil war. secondly, the precautions taken at the state and local level to minimize the impact with the social security checks, numbers checks, there's ways that they can -- local officials can validate or invalidate authenticate mail-in ballots. what i think sows the seeds of doubt in the notion of an illegitimate election is this very thought that somehow after decades of appropriate use of absentee ballots that suddenly the administration is raising these concerns, by the way, i would remind the attorney general and the president of the united states that one is victory in 2016 was in an

election where 25% of americans voted in absentee ballot. i would remind the attorney general and the president of the united states that the president, the vice president, the members of the cabinet, members of the administration have voted multiple times in absentee ballots instead of raising the spectate of some kind of massive fraud. if they're that concerned, it seems to me that they would be paying very close attention and working with republican and democrat governors to ensure that any abuse was limited -- if not completely limited through the appropriate oversight and collaboration with the states. i think right now it's a red herring and you begin to wonder, i got to tell you, you begin to wonder if they're concerned about fraud or concerned about outcome. and i just think that they should be paying attention to maximizing voter turnout. one of the things that senator -- that the governor and i agree upon is that voting in

the united states, a lot of people believe and sometimes it's taught, is a privilege of citizenship. i personally believe it's a responsibility of citizenship. i also believe it's incumbent upon both parties, both republican and democrat parties to maximum participation at the polls. if you take a look at the results in 2016, i think it was 61% of americans voted. think about that. nearly 40% of americans chose to ignore, chose not to vote for the president of the united states. and i would like us -- both parties to elevate, elevate their game, elevate their encouragement for maximum participation. if you're concerned with fraud, work with the local officials to eliminate it, period, that's the best way to go about dealing with potential abuse. >> tom ridge our guest, co-chair of the group vote safe which

deals with cybersecurity, international security issues. he was the governor of pennsylvania from 1995 to 2001 and secretary of homeland security back in 2003 to 2005. here to take your calls as we talk about voting security and campaign 2020. phone lines, just a bit different this morning. 202-737-0001 for democrats. we'll leave those numbers up on your screen. they're a bit different this morning. they are backup numbers this morning. we appreciate you dealing with that. secretary ridge, you said just a minute ago, 25% absentee vote rate back in 2016. what do you project it will be in 2020, amid the age of pandemic? >> well, i think it's a very important question.

it's frankly germane to the vote sa safe initiative as well. one of the reasons we agreed to co-chair this was a basic concern that americans might be put in a position to choose between potentially exposing themselves to covid-19 by going to the polls or not voting at all. and that's just not a choice that we think we should put our fellow citizens in a position to have to make. and so the alternative to waiting in line with a mask and, let's be very clear, epidemiologists have suggested, again, time will tell, but there's a real possibility that there could be a second wave, god forbid it be as horrific as the first wave. but there could be a reemergence of covid-19 in the fall and we

just don't want our fellow citizens to have -- to make that very difficult decision, should i vote or not vote. it's -- those who chose to vote, we want safe and secure polling stations, but we think there will be an unprecedented number of people voting absentee this time around. that's why the concerns expressed by the president and the concerns expressed by the attorney general about potential fraud, if they really believe that, then the focus ought to be on ensuring all of the precautions are taken at the state and local level to maximum participation, but to minimize fraud. >> i wonder, your thoughts on the concerns raised in the lead story today in "the washington post" with the idea that a lot more people will likely be voting via absentee ballot the day of results for the presidential election is unlikely to be november 3rd.

voters turning to mail-in ballots could have long waits for results and what that should mean in the meantime, whether people will trust that process and whether concerns might be raised whether it be from the white house or others about whether voters can trust that process. >> well, i haven't seen the article. as you've described it, it seems to me that somebody's like broke the glass and pulled the alarm in trying to raise a concern that frankly americans ought to dismiss as being irrelevant. it's more important to have an accurate count rather than a speedy one and that is suggesting -- by the way, it could be a very close race. by the way, no one has that crystal ball to predict the outcome, but the election is on november 3rd. the swearing in is on january 20th. if you believe there's going to be unprecedented absentee ballot

voting, there are many, many things you can do to expedite the counting, but certainly suggesting that somehow we in this country that are into immediate gratification, or we have to be concerned that the networks models may prove to be inaccurate, are a little bit off, i think we need a thoughtful look at what the election process is all about. you don't need to know who the -- you may know, it may be overwhelming one way or another. we have five months before that election. i don't think we should be raising any alarm and the fact that you've got a headline in the newspaper that it may take a while to count millions and millions of absentee ballots that may be true or may not be true. one of the things that can be done, and i cite my state as an example. the law say that is the local

officials can't begin to count absentee ballots until 7:00 p.m. the night of the election. i don't know how that rule applies to the other 49 states. if you want to accelerate the counting of votes, you can certainly make those significant changes in the individual states to accelerate the process. >> should there be a national standard for that? should there be a national standard for those kind of things? >> i would like to see them make recommendations. but the different states go about things differently and, again, i don't want to sacrifice that notion. but i think if there was recommendations, again, this is a place where the president and the attorney general could -- if they're that concerned or if -- just -- but people in the legislatures could take a look

at their own internal rules and they can change the rules so they can count absentee ballots before election night. >> tom ridge with us taking your phone calls. 202-737-0001, 202-737-0002, 202-737-0005. victoria is first out of connecticut. line for democrats. good morning. >> hi, there, i wanted to tell you guys that you do an excellent job. i'm glad to watch you every morning. >> what's your question for tom ridge. >> caller: i've been an election official for 25 years. and barr has no clue how the elections work. none of the higher ups do. when you do an absentee ballot, there is an outer envelope you

do sign your name to. there's an inner envelope which gets separated when you separate these votes. no one knows how you vote. that's my comment. and i do think there should be a national election rules of law for every state and everyone would have to do the same thing. >> and before he answers your question, can i ask you, what keeps you coming back to volunteer your time in that effort at the polls for -- and doing it for so long? >> i just enjoy the people. i was born in my small town in connecticut and people know me, they trust me. if they need help with a line or where to go, i help them and i just enjoy the people. it's a very small town. and i was also the librarian in my town. it's just something you do as a civil service. but i really get upset when misinformation goes out to scare people like bill barr saying

they will know how you vote. they won't and that scares people. i have friends who have asked me, do they know how i vote? and i said there's no way. every -- if i do a hundred ballots, the first thing we do is open the envelope and throw the outer ones in a bag. no one knows how you vote. and this nonsense about getting ballots thrown in -- taken out of mailboxes is ridiculous. >> thank you for the call from connecticut. >> first of all, i want to put multiple exclamation points after everything that that patriot said. and i use the word "patriot." we have thousands of people who give up the day who we've entrusted with very important role in this notion of

self-government and that's standing by to assist voters and counting them, counting those votes when it's all said and done. and for some people in washington, d.c., to denigrate or question their personal integrity as they go about engaging in that process, i found beyond disappointing. it's disturbing to me. i want to thank her for outlining what they do in connecticut. that's a process that most states to my knowledge employ and other states i suspect might even do more. i want to thank her for her service and remind your listeners that is a process that thousands of people on election day, your friends, your neighbors, your kids go to school with their kids, you go to the church, you socialize together, they take those responsibilities seriously and the suggestion that somehow they don't do their job properly is very disturbing. >> robert is next out of

maryland. republican line, good morning. >> caller: good morning. it's an honor to talk to you, sir. my comment is voter security and fraud and all of that stuff is irrelevant. from 1994 to 2002 approximately 5 million black babies were aborted in this country. that's why donald trump is going to be the next president of the united states. when you kill eight out of nine people that will vote for you, that's why president trump -- and i voted for him in 2016. he's going to win again. thank you very much. >> robert, stick around for our next segment. we're going to focus on the supreme court key decision yet to be released by the court this term on abortion access. it has to do with the case in louisiana. we're going to talk more about that. unless, tom, you wanted to weigh in on that case or the supreme court this term and the decisions that they've already come down.

>> i appreciate the opportunity, but i dare not go down a path that i have not yet traveled. i'll let that go. >> i wanted to give you the opportunity. paul is next in tennessee. independent. good morning, paul. >> good morning. i would just like to say right offhand that we need to get away from this democrat and republican crap. this two-party system has ruined this country and i had a younger brother try an experiment one time and i went with him. and he voted against obama three times in three different states. >> paul, can you explain a little bit more about how that happened, how that was allowed to happen? he traveled to three states on election day. >> caller: he had three driver's license for three different states and he had an address in three different states. and he voted in all three

states. and it was just an experiment. he wanted to show that voter fraud does exist. >> tom ridge? >> i suspect the statute of limitations may apply so he can avoid prosecution for abusing the system. we've said it's not perfect. i don't envision thousands of people deploying that kind of artifice to demonstrate there's flaws in the system. i would say this, the gentleman said democrat and republican, i would add another observation relative to that. neither party is advantaged by absentee voting. there's not an inherent advantage to either the republican or democrat party because of absentee ballots. there is an inherent advantage to the party or the candidate

that chooses to focus on that alternative to get his or her supporters to the polls. and so one of the things i really am somewhat confused or befuddled by is that i've got a president of the united states, the bully pulpit, the incumbent, who is a pretty sophisticated team around him who has a huge war chest who has millions of electronic followers, how and why the president wouldn't be encouraging his followers and his state chairman in all 50 parties to maximum the use of absentee ballots is beyond comprehension for me. and because it seems to me that the advantages are inherent to him and his incumbency. and i might also say, if he's interested in retaining the senate, as republicans and

hopefully i'm sure from his perspective flipping the house from democrat to republican, collaborating and working with individual candidates, incumbents and challengers to maximum participation would seem to be a focal point of his national campaign. i assure you, i assure you, that there's not an incumbent or challenger within the republican party, if they are, they're making a big mistake, who is going to ignore the reality in a covid-19 environment, and with historically military people voting absentee, people with disabilities voting absentee, with people overseas voting absentee, that they will ignore the reality to get maximum participation with absentee ballots. it's almost counterintuitive, contrary to what the president did, he's voted absentee. it's counter intuitive because he has all the assets available

to him to maximum participation. it's counterproductive if you want to keep -- if you want to keep the senate republican and maybe flip the house, why you wouldn't be working with a party to make sure those candidates receive maximum support. i don't understand it. again, sometimes i wonder if they're worried about fraud or worried about outcomes. >> you talk about available assets. we've spent $1.2 billion in this country since 2016 to better secure our elections. what have we gotten from that? >> i think there's a couple of i think so. i think we need to do a little bit more. we've got some electronic ballots. there was a recent bipartisan commission out of washington, d.c., republicans and democrats, house and senate members, that said they want to secure electronic balloting, but we want to have a paper trailer to

follow it just to be sure, build in that redundancy. i think the concern about the electronic impact on balloting is focused -- i realize on some of the machines. but i think it should be more focused on the misuse of social media. we know as the bipartisan committee, intelligence committee and the senate of the united states concluded, again, bipartisan, there was efforts by our enemies, by russia particularly, but i don't think he can discount china, russia, north korea, trying to influence voter outcomes not so much by tinkering with machines, but also trying to use social media to influence voters, either to vote or not to vote. i think there's a lot more to be done and when it comes to -- i don't mean to give you this long monologue, i noticed there was long lines in atlanta, long

lines elsewhere in the primaries, a lot of it has to do with new voting machines. and i think where additional dollars need to be extended and additional time needs to be taken is train, train, train. new voting machines, first impression for the voters and some of the men and women who are going to assist them at the voting station. i think we need to train our officials to do a better job with these machines and i call in the vendors to help out. they paid a lot of people on the machines, you have to instruct people how to use them properly. we have plenty of time to do it. >> 15 minutes left with tom ridge taking your phone calls. 202-737-0001, 202-737-0002 for republicans. voting security and campaign 2020, our topic. sergio, a democrat, you're next.

>> caller: good morning, john. how are you, sir? >> you're on with tom ridge. >> caller: okay. yes, tom, how are you, sir? it's an honor to speak to you, sir. how are you, sir? >> every day is a good day, thank you for asking. >> caller: my question is this, how can we get our votes heard, especially can we do it online as well and also to display or votes and also how can we protect our votes especially from interference? >> thanks for the questions. >> well, you know, you raise an interesting question, whether or not in time nationally we will have people able to vote online, i think with the internet of things, that would be the ultimate security challenge for officials everywhere because every time you're connected to

the internet, it exposes that connection to a potential vulnerability. i think we're a long way from having people, if i understood his question correctly, from voting online from your homes and the like. i think the steps that the government, state and local -- and even the federal government has taken over the past couple of years to do all they can to provide cybersecurity around some of these new machines, i think training the elected officials at the local level, i think the system by and large has -- it's not insulated from the kind of concerns that is obviously at the heart of your question, but i think we've done a pretty good job of securing our elections over the past several decades. but the more we use electronic ballots the more as a ruvulnera

system will be and that's why this bipartisan commission that took a look at cybersecurity, they focused one of their principles was focusing on elections said, if you have electronic balloting, you need to have a paper backup. i think you raise add very good question. i don't think we're going to go to massive online voting in the near future if ever. >> what's your biggest concern for election day 2020? >> turnout. i have -- john, i have -- ever since i was a young man -- when i was in the military in vietnam and, you know, the average day -- the average age of the men with whom i was privileged to serve over there who died, they were less than 20 years of age. and ironically those men with whom i served couldn't vote for the commander in chief because at the time you had to be 21 to vote. and so i always thought about,

one, finally in 1971, we reduce the age to vote to 18. but i've always been concerned that people twice a year are asked to do -- to express their citizenship and responsibilities of citizenship to select their leaders. so my biggest concern is that in the critical election, november 3rd and every elected official -- by the way, it's the most important national election at the time is november 3rd. my biggest concern is one that we won't have the turnout that i think we need in a government and this democracy. i'm quite confident that in the next four months, that the federal, state and local governments work together, safe and secure options, i want more polling places. one of the challenges we have -- i apologize for the monologue. you're seeing a lot of poll workers who historic appear at these sites and give up their

day, there's been a dramatic reduction in the number of people who support local election. why? covid-19. so my big concern, is if you have -- my biggest concern is if you have a re-emergence of covid-19, you'll have a reduction in poll workers, the reduction in polling places. that's why the governor and i say safe and security voting options. don't create a false choice, my health or vote. let's let americans exercise their civic responsibility and vote. >> ed is a republican in indiana. good morning. go ahead, ed. >> caller: i'm concerned the statements of the other gentleman. i'm a vietnam combat vet. 34% of our people in indiana are at risk people and that really

bugs me because because we've shut down the vfws, churches, reducing text message out and we have to have young people stepping up. but my main concern is that community voting that they're giving in all of these different states, it means that migrants can vote in their state and i just don't see how they're ever going to get that thing down. they're saying that, you know, in state elections, not in federal, they say, but every two years you vote on your representatives, but we're voting for some senators and the presidential election. when these community voters go out in new york city and in california, and portland, oregon, and washington, and denver because they have a community voting rights r, how e we going to look at these and

decide who is a citizen. the 15th amendment clearly states a citizen. it's been changed time and time again, the 15th amendment, blacks, women, and lgbtq and there is no safety for the citizens. and it just really updates me that everybody says that this new voting thing will work, this mail-in voting. first of all, they don't have to show an i.d. and everything. and that was -- that's not -- when i registered in indiana, i had to show my social security number. so how are we ever going to make sure this is a fair and citizen vote on our president and not -- >> we'll take your point. tom ridge? >> part of the conversation i regret, could you condense his commentary to a simple question for me, please. >> mostly concerned at the

beginning, concerned about talking about the voting rules that some localities that allow noncitizens to vote in local elections, whether that becomes something of a slippery slope and whether noncitizens -- we can find out whether they try to vote in federal elections and then in the latter part of his question was more concerned about the idea of mail-in voting, not having to present an i.d. to prove who you are and that you're a citizen and the security of main-in voting by not being able to present that. >> local officials have obviously a register, some do a -- purge those lists on a fairly regular basis. sometimes there's a longer delay. i know there's a lot of -- been a lot of concern maybe and a little controversy about stale voter registration lists. but i would say to the gentleman that most elected -- most

officials at the local level do all they can to ensure that the voter registration lists are weren't and, two, that people who register to vote are actually the ones who are admit today the polling places. they check my registration when i vote. as a woman from connecticut identified earlier in this conversation that we've had this morning, there are ways that they check against potential fraudulent votes by checking significants and other devices that they employ at the local level to validate to vote. i would say, admittedly, it's an imperfect system in one or two individuals might sneak through, but this whole national fraudulent enterprise somehow going to cast seeds of doubt into this november 3rd election, i think it's just -- i think

it's fake news. >> you said a little while ago when we were talking about spending on the election structure in this country that you think we could spend a bit more. i wonder if you think more of that spending with the potential of more absentee ballots could go to the u.s. postal service. juan writes in, as a former mailman, the post office is not ready to do this. absentee voting has increased and that has caused no end of trouble from separating votes from the mail stream to late-arriving ballots. >> i would say respectfully to this gentleman, i get a ton of un -- we go live to the white house for today's briefing with press secretary kayleigh mcenany. >> i am pleased to inform everyone that seattle has been liberated. the capital hill autonomous