1976 elections produced by the u.s. information agency for an international audience. then at 8:00 p.m. eastern on the presidency acceptance speeches from five presidential nominees. harry truman, dwight eisenhower, john kennedy and richard nixon. watch american history tv this weekend on c-span 3. >> on august 25, 1944 u.s. and french soldiers liberated paris after more than four years of german ocpays. next on american history tv military historian larry layoffer chronicles the allied operation. hosted by the kansas city public library and the u.s. army command and general staff college, this is an hour. >> good evening, everyone. i'm tallia evans.

i'm parts of the public affairs team here and we're thrilled to have you here tonight and have harry as our speaker. tonight's program is just the library's latest with the u.s. army command in fort leavenworth. we've been partnering with them since january 28th. we're down here in our brand new chairs just because we couldn't fit you all upstairs. and it doesn't matter the topic. and tonight's discussion about the liberation of harris is no different. he specializes in the american civil war and world war ii europe. he was a full bright scholar. she spoke at west point and to the idea of military college. so i'm not going to keep you guys any longer. let's just welcome up harry

laver. >> well, good evening. and thank you to talhia and the entire staff here at the kansas city public library. is this not a great facility? it is really one of the jewels of kansas city, and we are very appreciative of the relationship we have with the library and most of my colleagues. many of you here in the odd yps gathered will attest this is one of the great opportunities we really challenged to come down here and speak at the library, and thanks to you at well for coming out with a nice crowd. and having been here before for a number of my colleagues speaking and in the past i've spoken here, i see familiar faces, which is great.

we appreciate your support for all those times we've been down here to do talks. how many of you have been to paris? i've got nothing to tell you if you've been. how many of you have been to paris recently say in the last 75 years? all right, looks like just about everybody. if you haven't been for the time we've got together tonight let's go to france. and let's go back to france to the summer of 1944 more specifically august 7th, 1944. and we're going to meet the man we see in the jeep here. a smile most of us recognize, general dwight eisenhower, supreme commander of all the

allied forces in western europe. eisenhower was in france august 7th to establish his advance command post, his headquarters he was going to move the permanent headquarters in london at the time and move it over to the continent on september 1st. but he was there in normandy, outside the town of beirut to establish an early headquarters and advance command post as i said. now, the code name for eisenhower's temporary headquarters was shellburst. since d-day which had occurred about two months before allied forces had not moved as rapidly across france as anticipated. but a couple weeks before this time when eisenhower is there with the success of operation cobra british and american and other allied forces broke out of

the normandy beach head and began to work their way across france. now, as eisenhower and his staff studied the maps, the arrows and unit markers that traced the progress across the units across france their eyes were drawn almost involuntarily like a moth to flame to paris. the french capital, the city of light. paris, the city that world war i veterans speck up with something of a slight smile and a wink. but that was a paris of another time. that was a paris of another generation. for at this point paris was an occupied city and had been occupied for four years by the summer of 1944. well, eisenhower and the senior commanders we see here in this

photograph were not the first allied officers to think about the city of paris. in fact, even before d-day planners were already thinking about what do we do when we get to paris, and the plan was when we get to paris we are not going to move directly into paris. instead we're going to bypass the city. we're going to encircle it. and they thought about things like difficult street fighting, high casualties both civilian and military. the distraction away from the real objective which was going to be the german army and moving directly into germany. and the possible destruction of many of paris' great architectural wonders as well as sustaining a city of 4 million people. estimates were it would be 4,000 tons a day of supplies for food and fuel for the civilian

population of paris. 4,000 times that would have to be diverted from eisenhower's military forces. so with those factors in mind preliminary planners decided we're going to bypass paris. well, of course the americans and british weren't the only ones thinking about paris. the germans had also been considering what to do about paris especially since they occupied the city in the spring of 1940. and adolph hitler had made it clear after june 6th when allied forces landed in normandy paris was going to be held and it was not going to be surrendered to the germans. well, august 7 wrgt, the same day eisenhower was off in normandy setting up his headquarters, shellburst, this man was named as the commanding general of paris.

great, good luck or horrible luck depending on how you might look at it. he had extensive experience in the war including overseeing occupied cities. he was known as a tough guy in the german army, and he was hitler's hand picked choice to oversee paris and ensure that it remained out of allied hands, and so from that day on august 7th he began organizing the 20,000 or so german forces under his command to enl sursure hitl decree was going to be carried out. and of course the french had been thinking about paris, always thinking about paris. for paris to the french was more than just a political capital. it was more than the economic capital. it was more than the dulltural center of france.

paris was the spiritual center of france. it's where the french soul resigned. ekrn when t even when the city was under the heel of an occupying military force. and this man, general degall had emerged almost by default as the leader of those french who were unwilling to bend to the nazi regime. after leading one of the few counter attacks against german invading forces in the spring of 1940 he escaped to london, and there in a broadcast over bbc radio he became known as the appeal of june 18th. degaul issued a challenge to frenchmen everywhere to continue their resistance against the nazi invaders would r who would now become occupiers, to continue their resistance

against frenchmen in france who had surrendered their independence and dignity to cooperate with the german forces. he called on frenchmen to rally to him. as he had assumed the mantle of free france. truth is de gaulle had not been elected by anyone. but in the four years from june 1940 when the germans invaded now to the summer of 1944 most had kcome to recognize de gaull as the leader of free france. one significant exception was the franklin roosevelt, the american president who did not like him. roosevelt wasn't alone in that. he continued to remind people degaul was not elected and the united states could not

recognize degaul as president without a democratic process. and we can identify with that to a degree. but despite roosevelt's relu reluctance to recognize de gaulle by the spring and summer of 1944 as i said most had accepted de gaulle as their leader including the various resistance factions in france and there were many. there were many. but they had decide today set aside their political difference for the moment to present a united front to against the german occupiers and they collectively became known as the french forces of the interior or the ffi. and they acknowledged de gaulle for the moment as their recognized leader. and he wanted paris as he made clear in that appeal of june 18th. well, in france and more

specifically in paris over that summer of 1944 tensions began to rise in the city especially after d-day when the allies landed. in paris spontaneous demonstrations broke out and parishions started to display the tricolor, the french flag prohibited by the germans since they occupied the city. certainly this was disquieting for the germans seeing that, knowing that the allies had landed weeks earlier. by the second week of august rail workers went out on strike and parisians began to notice that civilian workers from germany along with the uniformed women of the german army, they

were known as the graying mice, were starting to take trains heading east out of paris. week wale noticeable was in court yards across the city there were german government official documents burning sending ash like confetti over various regions of the city. unmistakable signs to the parisians. then on august 14th the paris police went out on strike as well. 15,000 paris policemen all of them armed did not show up to work that day. this certainly had to be disquieting for the occupying german forces because there's 15,000 policemen just disappeared into this civilian population again with their arms

and there had to be some germans looking over their shoulders at every moment. clearly change was coming brought by the winds of war coming out of the west. not long after the rail workers and police went out on strike postal workers joined in and then workers in the paris subway systems and metro went out on strike. and these strikes collectively paralyzed the city and smat small trickle of german officials nobody could miss was turning into a significant exodus, all again troubling signs for the german occupiers. and then on saturday, june 19th open rebellion, insurrection, conducted by the resistance forces broke out in paris.

the resistance was not united in this decision to begin an insurrection. those who are were followers of charles de gaulle advocated waiting, we have to be patient. the allied armies are still miles and miles away from paris. at that point word was trickling in on the eastern front where the resistance in warsaw began an up rising against german occupiers and the word was the germans were inflicting brutal casualties on the workers in the hundreds if not thousands. and there were concerns with the followers of de gaulle that would happen to us. and those followers recognized if they didn't join in when liberation came they may well have given up any claim to power because they didn't join in the

resistance. and so the battle for paris was on, and katered fire fights erupted across the city like thunder. some are thunderstorms. well, the resistance forces especially targeted german convo convoys transiting across the city and installations where they believe they could get additional weapons. and then early that morning and striking policeman clamored on top of a car in front of a prefecture to police, the police headquarters. when he got on top of the car he proclaimed he was seizing police headquarters and the provisional republic of france. now, there were a couple other striking policemen there with

him and they moved into the police headquarters. no resistance from the germans. germans had not aechted this and they did not have forces available. well, that evening in an attempt to bring peace to a city that was erupting in violence this man, raul nordly who was the swedish council general in paris worked to broker a truce between the two sides. and he met with the general and the agreement they reached was that the germans would recognize the resistance fighters as regular soldiers and anord them all the rights comenseerate with a regular soldier. the germans also agreed not to attempt to retake any buildings that the resistance had seized. on the part of the resistance they agreed not to attack any german convoys that were clearly

leaving the city, and they agreed not to try to seize any german strong points. well, the following morning, sunday, august 20th outside the hotel which was the center for the municipal government of paris resistance forces mimicking what the police had done the previous day moved in and occupied the hotel, and again little german resistance to this. bit by bit, block by block he and his men were starting to lose control of paris. but he still had significant military power there in the city he could draw upon. so really the question was what would the germans do and that might well determine the fate of paris.

well, that same morning when the resistance seized the hotel tharlz de gaulle returned to france, from his provisional government headquarters and when he returned to france he met with generalizen hour at shellburst there outside the town. now, the two men had met any number of times previously in the war. in late december of 1943 just a few months before this point they had met as eisenhower was beginning to transit to prepare for operation overlord d-day and at that point eisenhower agreed when the time for the liberation of paris came french forces would be the first ones in. well, now that time had come. at least in de gaulle's

estimation. eisenhower wasn't so sure. he was still sticking to the pre-d-day plan of bypassing paris. now, these two men are really a study in comparison and contrast. they were born only about a month apart in 1890. they both came from large families. they both were avid readers of military history. they both attended their country's respective military academies. eisenhower of course attend s west point, de gaulle attending just outside of paris. in world war i their careers diverged to some degree. he served as an infantry company commander, wounded three times and was left on the battlefields where he was then taken prisoner. as most of you know i think eisenhower was ordered to stay state side during world war i

and train up troops who then got the good fortune to travel across the atlantic into the trenches of the western front. at this point both of them knew they were proaching this war from very different perspectives. eisenhower from the united states which virtually all recognized was a world power ready to take the stage. eisenhower knew american history and dpu that in the relatively short history of the united states that the country had suffered really in only a minor way from foreign invaders. whereas de gaulle looked at france and saw them on the verge of disappearing from the world stage as an independent nation. and he looked at france's history over centuries far longer than the united states and recognized that france had been invaded from time imemorial

from the romans and hundreds and the english, the prussians, the germans under kaiser, the germans under hitler. and de gaulle saw himself really at this point as perhaps france's last best hope to survive as a nation. he described himself as a man of destiny. eisenhower saw himself as a soldier with a job to do and described himself as the man of the kansas plains. so now that man of destiny was pressing that man from the plains of kansas to move on paris. it's too early eisenhower

responded. de gaulle with a retort said why is it too early? if allied forces have crossed the same river north of paris and allied forces have crossed the river south of paris why can they not cross the paris? and he told eisenhower that at this point, paris was fundamental. it was essential to the governing of france at that point and in the very near future. eisenhower responded that he would do what he could, but at this point, he could make no promises of when he would cut loose part of the allied armies to move into paris. well, the following day, de gualle sent word to eisenhower by de gualle senior military commander, the general, and what he told eisenhower was information that the french were receiving from paris is the city was on the verge of anarchy,

that there was no police presence, transportation had completely stopped. food shortages set the city on the verge of famine. and de gualle argued that if the allies don't move now, they were risking a humanitarian disaster and perhaps the destruction of paris itself. as it happened a number of times early in the war, de gualle and eisenhower, two extraordinarily determined personalities were putting that relationship to the test. but events in paris would drive eisenhower's decision making as much if not more so than de gualle's urgings. the next day, on monday, august 21st, that tentative truce that the swede nordling had organized

completely fell apart. more radical forces failed to recognize the truce, the more, i'll say, fanatical elements agreed in refusing to acknowledge that truce, so the battles were on once again, in scenes that remember victor hugo's lemiserables. parisians began to construct barricades with whatever they could find, tearing up paris' well known cobbled streets. a german sergeant wrote his wife that day, i have the feeling things are going to get bad here. very fast. well, the effectiveness of these barricades, not manned by soldiers and no rhyme or reason to the hundreds that appeared across the city, it's debatable what effectiveness they may have had in slowing german movement

across the city. but what those barricades did demonstrate was that the parisians were not merely an audience. not bystanders to a drama that was unfolding in their streets and parks. they were participants in the liberation of their city. they were contributing to the liberation of their own lives. well, as the parisians were constructing these barricades across the city, in his office in the hotel maurice, just across the street from the gard gardens, general coltits here continued to receive directives from berlin. two ss officers appeared in his office telling him they had orders from their commander, heinrich himmler, to take the famous medieval bay tapestry

that was being stored in the louvre museum back to berlin. coltits told them, well, the resistance has occupied the louvre museum. you are welcome to go and get it. not surprisingly, the tapestry did not leave the louvre museum. more seriously, though, was an order from hitler. reiterating his last man defense directive for paris, and at that point, coltits put in a call to his commander officer's headquarters, and over the telephone, coltits outlined what he was going to do should the allies make it to paris. the destruction of the arc de triomphe, the opera house, where napoleon is buried, notre dame cathedral, the madeleine church,

the seine river bridges, and of course, he said we'll fell the eiffel tower and its twisted steal will prevent the allies from moving through the city, but in truth, he had no intention of doing any such thing. knowing that the phone lines were probably tapped by the gestapo, he was being very careful in what he said. for coltits recognized and acknowledged that paris was one of the most beautiful cities in europe if not the world, and he had no intention of being the man known to history who destroyed all of those architectural wonders i just described. his resolution on the telephone, though, was designed to protect as best as he could his family that was still in germany. and coltits really feared that soon enough he would either have

to carry out hitler's directive or he would be replaced by an officer who most certainly would carry out hitler's directive. he commented to his staff rather jokingly, ever since the enemies have refused to listen to our furor, the war is going badly. well, indeed, it was now going quite badly for general coltits, and soon enough, he received the order he had been anticipating and fearing directly from hitler. the strongest measures must be taken against the first signs of insurrection, including public execution of ring leaders. demolition of the same bridges must be prepared. paris must not fall into enemy hands except as a field of ruins. well, time was running out for general coltits, and by extension, time was running out for paris as well.

well, closely following the deterioration of conditions in paris as best as they could with the limited information they had were the senior allied military commanders. to eisenhower's right, here's general omar bradley. the army group commander, senior american ground forces commander in europe, in essence, ike's direct american subordinate. to his left is general pierre conan. general de gualle's immediate overall commander. that morning as the truce was completely falling apart in paris, they had a discussion and made the determination that the conditions in paris were such that they could not bypass the city, and eisenhower sent word to the combined chiefs of staff, the senior american and british commanders back in london, his superior officers, informing them of this decision, and to eisenhower's credit, he couched this message to the chiefs of

staff in a way that precluded debate, precluded counterorders coming down. and what eisenhower said in essence was if we bypass paris, the germans have sufficient combat power to continually threaten our flanks in our rear. if the germans evacuate paris, without a fight, it's ours anyway. and so what eisenhower did was to make the decision to move into paris a militarily based decision rather than one based on political considerations. well, eisenhower had already given approval for the man in the center of this photograph, general philippe leclerk, the commander of the second french armored division, to be the first forces into paris. and the evening aphorizen hower

and the other senior advisers met on august 22nd, orders went out for the movement into paris. leclerk's second armored division was going to be joined by the united states 4th infa infantry division. there would be two columns to move to paris. one approaching the city from the southwest, made up primarily of leclerk's second armored division. the other approaching paris directly from the south, made up primarily of the u.s. 4th infantry with the spearhead of french forces. the following day, when general coltits was receiving his field of ruin orders from berlin, the french second armored division was about 120 miles outside of paris, and they set up that morning for paris. 16,000 men, 200 sherman tanks,

hundreds of other vehicles, all moving in column. a journalist that was traveling with leclerk's force wrote, in the heart of every frenchman, here there is a name, a goal, paris. paris. paris. and by the evening of that day, the two columns, leclerk's force and the u.s. 4th infantry division, were on the very outskirts of paris. they had met minimal resistance and there was hope the germans were going to evacuate the city, save additional casualties and spare paris that had suffered so much misery and destruction for four years all of that heartache. the following morning, on august 24th, a very light summer rain was falling as the two columns began to move forward again. the plan was they would meet at

one of the great public squares in paris. that great square that anchors one end of the champs elysees, the other encrowned by the arc de triomphe, but stiff german resistance slowed their progress as the two columns moved into the city. and by the end of the day, neither column had still really broken into paris itself. and general bradley, overseeing all of this, was getting impatient. one of his subordants said the french still aren't in paris. they're dancing towards paris. bradley was furious. he fires off a telegram to eisenhower telling this, and then he send a message to the 4th infantry division commander, slam it on into paris and bypass the french. well, of course, general leclark and his men had not been dancing with the germans. they had encountered stiff

resistance and had suffered significant casualties that day. but that evening, leclerk was still determined to get french forces into paris, and so he found one of his best young officers, a captain, and told him, take a small force and get into the city, and he asked, you want me to bypass any german strong points and just -- yes, get into the city any way you possibly can. and so at about 8:30, he set off with a small force and with the help of the french resistance, wound their way up the avenue, across the seine river to the hotel where the resistance was headquartered. they got there about 9:30. he then sent a couple of people over to the prefecture de police that the police had seized some days earlier, to let them know that american and french forces would be in the city in strength the following day, and not

surprisingly, word spread from the prefecture de police just hardly a block away to notre dame cathedral. and its 14-ton bell that had been silent for four years began to toll. setting off a cascade of church bells across the city, including the evening larger 19-ton bell on the northern side of the city. in his office, in the hotel maurice, general coltits was hosting something of a farewell dinner for his staff officers. and when the bells began to ring, a young second lieutenant wondered out loud, what's the meaning, and coltits immediately knew, he said the allies are here. he rang up his headquarters, held the phone up so they could hear, and he said, the french

and the americans are moving into the city. when morning came on august 25th, the friday, the next day, the clouds and rain showers of the previous day had dissipated. in many of the germans in the city recognized that the game was essentially up. and began withdrawing to the eastern side, almost like a receding tide. by midmorning, french and american columns were moving through the streets of paris, almost like rivers of iron and steel. some vehicles with white american stars on them, others with a silhouette of france with the cross of lorain superimposed over the map. but all the germans had not left. and so fighting continued between german tanks and german

infantry and the resistance forces in the intimacy of urban combat from the champs elysees around the arc de triomphe, down to the gardens, around the louvre museum. at 12:30, the french flag of the tricolor appeared before the eiffel tower. you can only imagine what went through parisians' minds when they saw that. shortly after, the french flag appeared at the arc de triomphe as well. french soldiers made their way to the hotel maurice, which was not very far away. fought their way inside, upstairs, broke into coltits' office, and the first french soldier challenged him. and coltits' response is, yes, and probably better than you.

but at that point, coltits surrendered. and shortly after, he signed the document surrendering all of the remaining german forces there in paris. now, not far away, a small column of trucks pulled up in front of the hotel ritz. an american worker working for colliers magazine, man on the right, one earnest hemingway, got out and with a group of i'm going to be generous here and say a group of french irregular soldiers, made their way into the bar where hemingway, by legend, at least, ordered 73 dry martinis for himself and his newfound friends. well, the celebrations were beginning in paris.

well, charl de gualle arrived in paris late that friday afternoon. and the first thing he -- the first place he went to was the train station. this is a photograph of him and de gualle is the one with the cigarette. and he went there intentionally because that's where general leclerk that we see here to de gualle's left, had the army headquarters, and he went there to emphasize the role the french army had played in liberating the city. and to downplay the role of the resistance that was made up to such a significant degree of communists, that de gualle knew he was going to have a political battle with. there, there was also a young second lieutenant from the 2nd armored division, philippe de gualle, and he was there able to

share this moment with his father. well, from there, de gualle then traveled to the ministry of war where he had an office in 1940 before he made his escape to london. and there, he symbolically as well as in a very practical sense, set the wheels in motion for the governing of france once again from its capital in paris. he then made his way to the prefecture de police as an acknowledgment of the role the striking police had played in liberating the city, and only then did he go to the hotel de ville where the resistance was headquartered. but when he got to the hotel de ville, he gave an impromptu address to the crowds outside. and this address is arguably one

of his more important and effective speeches that he gave in his career. and what i hope to do if our technology works is show you a short video clip. less than a minute, of de gualle's address there outside the hotel de ville on the day paris was liberated and he's speaking in french, of course. there aren't subtitles, but i'll give you a translation once it's over. as you watch it, if you don't understand french, just pay attention to his body language and the emotion that we see from de gualle at this point when he has finally returned to his beloved paris. [ speaking french ]

[ speaking french ] >> paris. paris outraged. paris broken. paris martyred. but paris liberated. liberated by itself, liberated by its people. with the help of the french armies, with the support and the help of all france, of the france that fights, of the only france, of the real france, of the eternal france. really what de gualle is doing,

i think, is proclaiming the return of a free and independent france. taking its place once again in the world community, as well as giving back to the french population the pride and dignity of being france, and discounting that french government that collaborated and cooperated with the germans, de gualle in this government was the real france, the eternal france. well, that same evening, de gualle began organizing a parade for the following day. a parade that was to celebrate the liberation of paris, but also a parade to let everyone know, both friend and foe alike, that de gualle was the leader of france. there could be no question.

and so that next morning, it was a saturday, again it was a warm sunny day. and word spread across the city that at 3:00 there was going to be a grand parade. and precisely on time, general de gualle arrived at the arc de triomphe, this is a photograph of him in front of that paris landmark. where he first placed flowers on the tomb of the unknown french soldier there underneath the arc. and where he relit france's eternal flame that the germans had extinguished four years earlier. he then set out down the champs elysees, leading a parade of his military commanders, general

leclerk, along with civilian leaders and leaders of the resistance. and the estimates of the crowd vary, de gualle said there were 2 million. maybe. but i think we can see in this photograph, there are certainly tens of thousands of parisians who showed up for this parade. and as they made their way down the champs elysees from the ark dec det -- arc de triomphe, as de gualle and the rest of his followers approached the city square, gunfire rang out, sending people there ducking in confusion for cover. there was chaos as no one knee where the gunfire was coming from and who was doing the shooting. de gualle, however, was

absolutely unshaken. never flinching, he continued to move forward across that square to the car that by design was to take him to notre dame cathedral. and when he fought got to notre he was met outside by city officials, others of his military officers, and church leaders. and as they began to make their way into notre dame through the main front center door, gunfire again erupted outside in the square in front of the cathedral, as well as inside the cathedral. and once again, de gualle didn't flinch. standing erect, he strode down the center aisle to the alter as others were seeking cover among the pews. where the gunfire came from, whether it was celebratory, were there still a few germans, were

there still resistance forces battling? no one knows for certain. what we do know is that when de gualle emerged from notre dame that afternoon, he had become the embodiment of france. his determination over four years standing up to all powers, including winston churchill and franklin roosevelt, and his personal bravery that day, both at the concord and there at notre dame, established him as the undisputed now leader of france. in the days that followed, de gualle sent a letter to general eisenhower, thanking him for the support, the resources, and the manpower that eisenhower committed to the liberation of paris, and de gualle also asked eisenhower to give him some additional forces to help stabilize the city. eisenhower agreed to lead the

second armored division there in paris for a while, but he declined to commit any other military forces to paris because as eisenhower pointed out, the germans are still on the eastern outskirts of paris, the war continues and it will continue for months yet to come. but eisenhower did agree to have the united states 28th infantry division on their way to the front march through paris in a parade. and so a few days later, the 28th division did just that, from the arc de triomphe down the champs elysees, down the concord, where they were reviewed by general de gualle and general bradley and scores of other military and civilian officials. and eisenhower did this, one, to show support for de gualle. and secondly, to remind

parisians that the united states played a pretty significant role in the liberation of their city as well. well, when eisenhower and another photograph of the 28th division, it was quite an impressive sight, and there is video of this. you can google it and find it quite easily. when eisenhower and general bradley visited paris, just the day after de gualle's parade, the first thing they did was to call on de gualle and his offices at the war ministry, and this was another gesture by eisenhower to show support for de gualle, to acknowledge him as the legitimate leader, the provisional president of the republic of france. and eisenhower wrote later his motivations for this, he said i wanted to show the people my support for de gualle. and that i believed de gualle was the boss of france. and he said that's the effect i wanted, and that's the effect that i got.

eisenhower also told de gualle in that visit that he was going to establish, eisenhower was going to establish his military headquarters on the outskirts of paris, not in the middle of the city. another gesture in support of de gualle because if eisenhower had established supreme command there in the city, it likely would have overshadowed and distracted away from de gualle's efforts to reestablish a functioning french government, so another gesture by eisenhower that de gualle really appreciated, and the relationship that these two men built over the course of the war, and it wasn't all roses, did pay off even later after the war, because both of these men would become the elected leaders of their respective countries and have to work together through some very difficult times in the cold war that was not very far away. and so paris had been liberated.

ernie pyle, the famed journalist, who wrote about the war from the gi's perspective, and painted for his readers a word picture of the filth and the degradation and the horrors of war, equally well captured the essence and the emotion of a liberated paris. he wrote, it was the loveliest, brightest story of our time. well, who deserves the credit for liberating paris? is it the senior military commanders, eisenhower, bradley, general leclerk, de gualle, who orchestrated the military advance into the city? or is it the french and american

soldiers who drove the last vestiges of german military power out? how about the resistance? who began the insurrection that really set the table for the allied advance into the city and in fact accelerated the allied advance into the city, and maybe a dark horse candidate, general von coltits, who refused to follow hitler's field of ruins order, whatever his motivations might have been. well, for all of you who have been to paris and experienced paris, maybe it doesn't really matter who gets the credit for paris, because if you have been to paris, what's perhaps most important is paris is still paris. thank you all for coming tonight. [ applause ]

thank you, thank you. and i believe we've got time for some questions. the guidance i have received from both the public library and c-span is if you have a question, you need to come up to the mic so everybody can hear it and so c-span with record it. and one disclaimer, i'm sort of a world war ii historian, not a french historian. but many of my colleagues out there are french historians so i can turn to them if you stump me. sir, you have a question. >> yes, i apologize in advance because everything i know about this i learned from the movie "patton." >> all true. all true. >> well, you didn't mention his name. did he truly factually play any role in the advance on paris?

>> in the liberation of paris. um -- technically, i'm going to have to say perhaps not. in that the forces that moved into paris were, of course, under bradley's command and under the 5th corps commander. and so patton wasn't directly involved. but hey, it was all a team effort, right? so we'll say yeah, sure, patton helped out by keeping the germans occupied elsewhere. sir. >> my mother was in the west. and she was stationed in paris, obviously, after these events occurred, and i know she was there the beginning of december because she was given leave to go to brussels to visit her engli english-born aunt and cousin who

had been there during the occupation, but the bulge interfered in her trip and it got delayed a couple months. do you know when such nonc noncombatant units would be in paris? not obviously a few days after this, but -- >> yeah, especially for u.s. i don't know for certain. i couldn't say when, with american forces eventually moving in, and especially, let me backtrack a little bit. eisenhower's headquarters, which i said he established on the outskirts of paris, it was at versailles. as that started to grow and become the central brain for the rest of the allied fighting the war where eisenhower kept his headquarters, there would eventually be, yes, those kind of support personnel who would show up. i expect not too long after he established his headquarters there at versailles, but the exact timing i couldn't say. i wouldn't risk saying exactly when. >> i think it was late september if i remember. >> just a few weeks after the

liberation of paris. that wouldn't surprise me. >> thank you. >> thank you. sir. >> yes, sir. general von coltits, is that right? >> mm-hmm. >> after he was taken prisoner, my understanding was he was sent to mississippi, and he spent the rest of the war in a prisoner war camp. could you talk a little bit about what happened to him after he surrendered paris, or he landed and what he did, you know, how he come out and where he went? >> pretty much what you said is what i know. he ends up at a prisoner war camp in mississippi. i assume he's released in late 1945. i don't believe he was involved in any war crimes trials, that sort of thing. probably what he did in paris helped him out to that degree, but what happens to him at that point, he disappears from my historical radar screen. >> great question about what does he do in retirement. lives in paris, maybe. >> yeah. maybe mayor.

>> sir. >> i would like for you to comment on the negroes in world war ii like josephine baker. >> could you repeat that? >> negroes in world war ii for france, like josephine baker. a pilot from world war i that was in world war ii, too, but i can't think of his name. >> i can only say briefly, paris prior to the war was a much more liberated city as far as race goes, i'll say. than much of the united states, and josephine baker is an example of someone who did not have the challenges she would have had in the united states. and as far as african-american soldiers in world war ii, the army was still segregated at the time, serving in various units. most of you are probably familiar with the tuskegee airmen, a segregated unit who had an extraordinary combat record in flying fighter support

for american bombers. a number of african-american veterans from world war i served in world war ii as well. but again, still facing the segregation that they had experienced in the u.s. army in world war i. so that's about the best i can do on that question. anything else? anything else? sir? >> how tall was de gualle? >> how tall was de gualle? the nickname that the americans gave him was -- two meters. he was about 6'6". and so in the video we saw, he wasn't standing on a platform or anything. he was just simply that much taller than most of the other people. so he was quite a tall individual. yes, sir. >> what was hitler's response

when he learned that the destruction of paris had not taken place? >> furious. furious. he anticipated that coltits was going to carry out those orders, which i suspect for coltits being taken prisoner, going back to germany, being taken prisoner would of course have been the best choice. he was furious. but there was nothing he could do at that point. the war was going badly, as coltits had pointed out, and it was going to go much worse for hitler from that point forward. yes, ma'am. >> i just wanted to make a comment. we were in paris, i mean, well, the whole country, for 16-day trip four years ago, and you cannot believe how many times we were stopped and said thank you for what you did for us during world war ii. i mean, a lot of times. especially like in the small villages. it was amazing. i was amazed. >> which i would concur with

that. we here in the united states oftentimes don't have the best impression of france and the french. and i have been to france quite a bit. i have been to normandy i think a dozen times now. i take tour groups over there. this year, i got to take some of our students from the staff college over there, and in paris, i have met some rude people. i have met some rude people in kansas city, too. but for the most part, even in paris, when i would take undergraduate civilian students, any number of times my student would tell me, somebody stopped and asked if they could help them find what they were looking for. and especially out in the countryside, my experience has been the same. in normandy, when you go to normandy, there are american and british and french flags everywhere, and just about every trip, someone has done the same thing to myself or a member of my group, thanking the united states for our contributions to the war. so i agree. i confirm your experiences very

much. yes, ma'am. >> i was just wondering, did hitler ever actually go to paris? >> did hitler ever go to paris? he did. soon after paris was occupied in the spring, late spring, early summer of 1940, he went to paris, and i will bet you everybody in this room did what hitler did when he went to paris. got your picture made with the eiffel tower in the background. exactly what hitler did when he went to paris. it's a photograph where most people go on the opposite side of the seine river, and again, you can find it pretty quickly on google. you can do a side by side of your picture there next to hitler's. he did the tourist thing, and that was as far as i know the only time he went to paris. he did travel to paris to sort of the conquering hero, and then he went back to germany.

good question. good question. all right. if anybody has other questions i'll stick around for a little bit. thank you again for your continual support and for coming out tonight. have a good rest of the week. [ applause ] >> you're watching american history tv, every weekend on c-span3, explore our nation's past. c-span3, created by america's cable television companies as a public service and brought to you today by your television provider. >> weeknights this month, we're featuring american history tv programs as a preview of what's available every weekend on c-span3. tonight, a look at civil war objects. historians held a series of online talks this summer about

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nominees, harry trumman, adlai stevenson, dwight eisenhower, john kennedy, and richard nixon. exploring the american story. watch american history tv, this weekend on c-span3. retired fbi agent william ouseley spent two decades investigating and prosecuting organized crime februaigures in kansas. he's the author of mobsters in our midst, the kansas city crime family. next, the former fbi agent sits down for a discussion of the city's gangster past and a look at newly discovered archives of police reports and mugshots from the kansas city star newspaper. held by the kansas city public library, this is a little more than an hour. >> welcome. welcome, everyone.