historian matthew walsh news, and how -- farewell it uses selection of artifacts to tell the history of a man african americans in congress. then at a pm eastern, a look at past political conventions except the speeches by presidential nominees, including bill clinton, and george h. w. bush. exploring the american story, watch american history tv, this weekend on c-span three. next, 6 million institute secretary lonnie bunch, and philanthropist david reuben stein discuss the role of slavery in antebellum washington d.c.. the white house historical's, ocean host of this event at the st. johns church, across lafayette square from the white house, in recognition of their in mishit of slavery in the presidents neighborhood. >> as we begin tonight's program, please welcome --

st. john stretch reverent rob fischer. law >> welcome good evening my name is rob fischer i am the director of st. john's church, and i am thrilled that our friends at the white house historical association asked us to provide space for tonight's conversation. stewart asked if i would share a little bit of a history of this historic room that you are sitting in tonight, and so i will share with you this church was completed in 1816. the architect was benjamin henri vitro, and not only did he designs church, he was working on rebuilding the white house after it was destroyed by the british in the war of 18. 12 in 1818, he built what is now the home of the historical association. and if you go inside the dictator house, and you look up, you see a similar entrance.

it's almost like a miniature of this dome of we have in our church space. the original church was built as a greek cross, so it wasn't even four sides. in just six years later, in 1822, they expanded the church building to make room for more seating. we don't know who the architect was, who did that expansion and who built the bell tower tragically -- electrode had already died at that time. he had died in new orleans. and i imagine there might be some historians in the room, and if anyone is interested in helping us solve the mystery, we would love to know the bell tower is very beautiful addition to the church, and inside the bell tower, it houses a bell that was forged by paul reveres on. joseph review. it's stamped on, it says 1822, boston review. it's not the reviewable that watch -- came to washington but it is the only one that it is still

in his place, and being used for its original purpose. it is interesting to to think about this building, this is the only building on lafayette square, that goes back to the area that it goes back to. that is still being used for the purpose of which it was built, more than 200 years later. and i'm very happy to say that we are open most days of the week, and we welcome anybody who likes to come in and spend some time and be in this gracious space. i also feel compelled, to mention that it usually looks a little different than it does tonight. stewart was telling me this could be practiced for our new tele-evangelism ministry. which i do not intend to develop. james madison was president in 1816, when st. john's opened. and, the church decided to offer him a special pew that would be reserved for his use

anytime he wanted to come to church. that will be the presidents pew. back then, there were actually boxes, and you rented your pew box. and he was able to use his pew box free of charge. he received that offer, and the decision was made to put the presidents pew right in the middle of the people. rather than up in front, which was the high status pew boxes. he wanted his pew just to be among all the other people who were here for prayer, and warship. and that tradition continued in 1842, who are the pieces that exist to who is the low that you are all sitting in, and 1842 the president was president tyler. and he personally make sure, that the presidents pew would be in the exact location where the pew box had been, beginning with madison. it is a fact that every president beginning with president madison, as warship in the space at least once. many have become regulars, some have even become members of st.

john's, during their presidencies. when detail that really stirs me is to think about the time during the civil war, when abraham lincoln would walk alone across the part from the white house. in the evenings, his regular sunday morning church was -- new york avid to presbyterian church, a few blocks in that direction. but in the evenings, he would walk alone across the park and he would sit in the very last pew on the south side right over there. and you can imagine what was on his heart during those evenings as he came for a little bit of space, a little bit a quiet time to reflect and to pray. he would always leave just before the end of the surface, so he could leave undisturbed. it's a prayer of mind, that the space will continue to serve as a place where people can come and have reflections can have a

little bit of space and grace in the city that moves very quickly and i want to say to you all. our aim is to be open to all people, no matter what background no matter what don denomination or faith tradition. we want to be here for all of our neighbors. a house for all people. now, i am really excited for the conversation that we are about to have tonight. and it is important to say, it is good to remember that in those early years, those people who passed through the space, who lived and spent time in the neighborhood surrounding this building, all of those people in a matter of the color of the skin, no matter their stature, no matter their disposition, everyone was affected by the economic and the moral reality

of the institution of slavery. and one historical detail that i want to leave you with, a poignant note, the second director of this church, from 1817 to 1845, his name was reverend william hollen, he would have the practice of baptizing african american babies and marrying african american couples in his home. and as the historians in this room who have been working hard on the essays that are being produced, know very well, we don't have all the records that we would like to be able to tell the story as fully as the story needs to be told. of that time. but we have in our own registers that we have collected upstairs with church archives, we have the registers of all baptisms and all the marriages and some of them we see the notes. it says where it took place

when he would marry african americans, he would usually do it in his home, in his home and his family would be the witnesses. on january 11th, 1828 reverend halle mary emily matthews and william -- emma lane was listed in the registered as colored. and william was listed as slave. and just think, the very next wedding listed in the same register, took place in the white house. for john quincy adams son. just thank you all for being here tonight, to have this important conversation that we are privileged to host. i will now welcome forward my good friend, stewart mclaren, the president of the white house historical association. (applause) >> thank you very much rob, to reverend fisher

and the people of st. john's church. it's wonderful to be in your historic home, and this historic neighborhood, here tonight. for this very very important conversation. i also want to thank this -- who performed for us as you are coming in. they are a local washington d.c. group, and it is wonderful to have them with us tonight and i hope you enjoyed their music. (applause) to our friends joining us tonight by c-span and on facebook live, welcome we hope you enjoy this conversation. it encourages you, along with everyone here, to dive deeper into the topic that we will be unpacking for you this evening. i am here tonight on behalf of the board of directors, the white house historical association, our national council and white house history, many of them are with us tonight. welcoming you all for this wonderful conversation that our historians have been working on for several years.

it was in may of 2016, at a speech at the city college of new york, and later that summer the political convention in philadelphia. first lady michelle obama delivered a speech on both occasions, that included these words. i wake up every morning, in a house that is built by slaves. in the days that followed, our phone lines our emails, our internet, our press office, or historians, were all inundated from the public, the press, people wanting to know the story behind those very compelling words. my first call was to dr. lonnie bunch, that will be part of our conversation tonight, say lonnie we need to know more about the story. we know anecdotes but we need to know names, we need to know dates, we need to know

specifics. it is the peoples house. the white house. but we need to know about the people who built the house, and the people who impacted it beyond the president and the first families. he was very generous, to introduce his historians at the national museum of african american history and culture, to our historians and thus began a three-year project delving into this topic. during that time, we had the privilege host -- the cater house, a group called the presidential leadership scholars. this is a program, it is a collaboration the presidential libraries, and foundations of president clinton, both bushes, and president johnson. they bring together these young dynamic early career leaders, and they were to program the cater house right across the part, will robson is -- they went up into the store, and i think they were intrigued, encouraged, maybe a little inspired. and i took us the test, that we

needed to do a better job of telling that story. and interpreting that space. so we folded that story, that the cater house, and the last remaining example of slave quarters in the presidents neighborhood, into the story that we are telling tonight. we previously, this week, earlier this week, unveiled our website. emphasis on this topic, with a treasure trove of research documents and papers. white house history .org, i can find -- you can find all of these when you go home tonight and encourage your friends to do so as well. this is not the end of what we will be doing, this is really the beginning, we are raising the curtain on this conversation, and we want to encourage it through our continued research and ongoing programming that will be and taking as well. this fits with our mission, we were founded in 1961 by first lady jacqueline kennedy to give a nonprofit, nonpartisan, department to the white house. every year we provide non taxpayer funding to maintain

the beautiful museum standard of those state rooms that you see on the state for the white house. but also important to mrs. kennedy, was an education mission. she challenged us to teach and tell the stories to the white house insists rudy, going back to seven 1972, when george washington selected a piece of land across the street, and hired the young irish architect james -- to build a white house. we do that through public programming, such as tonight. as books, publications, magazines, robust website, social media, a podcast. many other ways, we have teacher institutes, where we bring teachers from all over the country. we engage students, and i actually have some friends of mine here tonight who are students. reverend fisher mentioned the presidents pew. seated in the presidents pew tonight, our students from calvin coolidge high school in washington d.c.. they participated in a podcast with me, and a wonderful

students and i would like them to stand. a bit here, there we are. [applause] tonight, they are in the president's pew. one thing we like to think of as educators is we plant the seed and we water the seed but may never see the results of the education. we hope one day these students and their peers are back here, maybe as the president of the united states. it is great to have them here this evening. we had the privilege of having two wonderful presenters tonight. david is the cofounder and co-executive chairman of the carlyle group. he has been the chairman of the board and held positions with many organizations including

the smithsonian institutions duke university, foreign relations, and many others. he has a heart and passion for patriotic philanthropy and invests in places involved with history, like the white house historical association, our sister institutions that are supporting causes, great american monuments like the lincoln memorial in washington, he has helped save. he has been a giver of transformational gifts that allowed us through the center to have programming like this and undertake the resources we do. we are grateful for him for that support. if you have the opportunity to watch him on his television show, i know you will enjoy that, as i have. he is recently an author of a book. the american story.

and will you all receive a copy of this book later tonight as you leave. our other presenter is the 14th secretary of the smithsonian institution and the first african-american and first historian to hold this important role in our country. . [applause] you know him well as the founding director of the national museum of african american history and culture. he was the first person i

called when this initiative came into our radar. he is the author of a book -- i really encourage you to read this. it tells a wonderful story of someone who was able to move and mix and make things happen across political lines. that is a wonderful thing, in this day and time. his role is the same regardless of who the president and the first lady may be. our role is to support the people in the united states. he is the advisor on too many boards, including the committee for preservation in the white house, which we worked with

closely. we're honored to have david and lonnie with us tonight. please welcome them to the stage. [applause] >> do you think in 1816, when this was opened, that you and i or our ancestors would have been here? we are honored to be here tonight. this is a terrific place to talk about the white house history and slavery. at the african american and culture museum, if i want to get tickets to see something, how do i? >> everyone has been calling me. i have tried to say that i am no longer there. i have been struck by the desire that is so great that a few months ago, a woman called and said she wanted tickets and i said i do not do that and she said, you have got to give them

to me because i was your girlfriend in seventh grade. when you are 13, you remember your first crush. i gave her the tickets. >> so that is the technique to use. so that museum, it took you how many years to get that from beginning to end? >> i worked on it for 11 years. >> how much money did the federal government give you for that? >> we had one staff, no collections, no money, no idea where the museum would be. the smithsonian had $1 million to get started. i spent that in like two weeks. ultimately, you have got

artifacts given by citizens of the country. how many were given to the museum? 70% came from people's basements and attics. we realized that the idea of the culture and history still available, we felt the only way we could do it was to get people to share with us stories and histories through the collections. >> you have mel turner's bible. harriet tubman's shawl. what is the most popular item? >> a red cadillac that i did not want and did not think was important, which shows you! >>

how many people have been to the museum since it opened? >> 7.3 million. >> what is the average time someone spends going to this museum? >> 4.5 hours to 5.5 hours. it tells you people will spend the time to understand and think about and debate. we are pleased this has become the kind of site that in some ways almost a pilgrimage site. people feel the need to be a part of it. we are grateful to have the opportunity to work with you to create that museum. >> the taxpayers only put up $200 million. how much did you raise from citizens across the country? >> about 250 million. >> how did it happen that this

country had slavery? was it ordained? how did it come about? >> you had two systems created. the spanish, when they began to bring africans, and some slaves as early as 1650. in the united states, you have the first african-american coming in 1690. the process of becoming a slave took time. initially, the africans were like indentured servants. in 30 or 40 years, it was clear that africans were then restricted to slavery for life. you realize slavery is both an

economic system of labor, later a system of social control, as more and more africans come to this world. i think the most important thing to remember is slavery from the 17th, 18th, and 19th century, was the most dominant institution in the united states, that almost every aspect of the culture, politics, foreign policy, industry, was all shape either slave trade slavery, the labor of slaves, or the money invested by slave. when you think on the eve of the civil war, more money was invested in slaves, in the enslaved population, then the business combined. it is so essential to understanding who we are. that is why this is so important. this is an essential story to helping us understand who we once were and who we are today. -- >> did they work for a few years and then leave or was it clear they were slaves? >> it was clear they were viewed as different.

the way we can tell by formal records, is the 1640's to 1660 that we see the institution of slavery. >> a total of 20 million slaves at one point were here. how many were brought over? more in central and south america than the united states. >> only 13% of the millions of africans taken and brought to the new world, only 13% came to

the united states. more were from brazil and the caribbean. that 13% became such a large portion of the population that it really began to outweigh initial numbers. >> larger numbers were in brazil because they died more rapidly. >> the agriculture was better developed because of sugar and the like. that is where it started. >> the united states brought over about 800, 000, 600,000 africans, who came to the united states. they reproduced and so forth. at the time of the constitution we have about half a million slaves? a the time of the civil war, 4 million slaves? >> about 4 million enslaved africans and 1.5 freed africans in both the north and the south. >> if you were brought over on a slave ship, what were chances you would survive? >> there was a lot of debate about mortality. many feel that 50% of those brought on ships perished,

either on the ships or on the way to plantations or mines where they ultimately worked. the fact that it was key that middle passage, was really something that was hard for people to survive. and it really was, among the markers of understanding the impact of a slave trade on the african. >> so when the declaration of independence was agreed to, more less on july the 4th 1776, we fought a war which one on two 70 1773. at that time the declaration of independence, was there any mention of slaves. was slavery anything that the people of the declaration wanted to mention in terms of a problem or they did to dress it? >> i think there is this whole discussion around, jefferson sort of beginning to identify the treatment of the colonists, like they were enslaved. but i think there was such a

concern that if you begin to explore the question of slavery, you as colonial's, how to figure out what that means for us. and so i think, slavery is always the most visible thing, but also the thing that is often tried not to be mention. >> and jefferson is the author of the declaration of independence, and people make changes to it along the way. but he wrote this famous sentence, and it's he we hold these truths to be evident that all men are created equal. so how could he say that when he had slaves throughout his lifetime, and it was not proposing to slavery. >> so that's like all the paradox, because on one hand here's jefferson, who defines our notion of what liberty is. what independents and freedom is. but then you realize, the only reason he was able to do that, is because he understood what slavery was. and in essence because he saw, and use the power to control of

the people, he understood that what freedom meant. i think that for me, what is so powerful is that how do you unpack that? how do you help people understand at the same time he is seen as a symbol around the world of freedom. he is also a symbol around the world of american culpability. american embracing of slavery. and in essence for us, we are still as a people, trying to untangle that. trying to really be clear, what it means that we are nation of freedom that was based on slavery. >> so, on the revolutionary the revolutionary wars over treaty signed, the confederation was thought to be working, sorry the constitutional convention is held in philadelphia. in the constitutional convention, george washington provides over. it is there any mention in the constitution when it finally is revealed, of slavery? >> well there is always these

amazing debates in the constitution, and one is about representation and the notion was that representation is based on population and to many people that meant do you can't slaves. the slave population. does that give the south more impact and more influence? you have the three fifth amendment, where you can slave people are counted as three fifths of a person for taxation and for representation. and that really sort of speaks to the way and slave the people reviewed. that they weren't completely human. that they were not equal. the work >> the word slave is not actually used in the constitution for all the obvious reasons, they did want to quite admitted what they had. but they obviously recognized it, and the fact that they banned the importation of slaves after a certain period of time, but they still don't use the word slaves. but let's move forward so, the capital the company tree is new york. george washington becomes the

first president, he lives in new york. but then congress passes a law saying, we are gonna move the capital to philadelphia. and then eventually a place south of that, in order to deal with certain depth issues that the government has. it was a compromise, and ultimately they decide to move it further south to deal with philadelphia. -- and he picks something on why did he pick this potomac area? >> and some way it was a place that already had, georgetown was here, some tobacco trade so he thought that this was a really nice spot between the north and south >> rockabilly capital, a city here capital city. it's gonna be named after him eventually. were there any slaves living in the washington area at the time? well >> from the very beginning of what we call the washington area, the war plantations. so there were enslaved people,

that lived here before it became officially washington. >> so to build the city of washington, did they import labor from overseas? did they use slave labor? who really built it? >> washington is built by many people. it is built by immigrants that brought into work, but there is a strong sort of enslaved population, that turns the land from you know, swamp to farmland. that begins to identify and cut down the trees, the timber that is used. that also quarries the stone, so enslaved labor is touches all aspects of what would become washington d.c.. >> so let's suppose i'm a plantation owner, and i have some slaves, i want to help the city of washington, or what became washington that was built. i would say, i'll have you use some of my slaves, what i get paid for that? and then the slaves get any of that compensation? what did slave labor get typically? >> what you have, first of all,

you have people who use their enslaved population to do the work, and those folks rarely got compensated. then what would happen, many times in slaved crashed people and others who are hired out. that you would say, i am building a building and i need to have labor. i would like to hire three of your carpenters, or through the people that you work with. usually what would happen is that, the person building the structure would pay the plantation owner. sometimes, it was done in a way to incentive find a slave that they would get a small portion of that. but it really was most of the revenue went back to the owner. >> okay, so the government is operating out of philadelphia, as they are building the city of washington, would became washington d.c.. and george washington is supervising, it he's picking various people to help a design. he picked somebody to design the white house, is that right?

and, that was someone from europe, who actually was the designer. when they started building the design, building the design that have been agreed to, was it slave labor that actually did build the white house? >> over 200 enslaved people worked to construct the white house. that while there were crass people from ireland, england, and parts united states that did a lot of the work, the enslaved people played a crucial role. they did a lot of the quarrying of the stones, from virginia and getting the stone up here. they did a lot of the work on getting the lumber, doing some of the initial work that needed to be done. so there was no doubt that you do not have a white house without the in slave labor. >> so, when it was finally completed, it took about eight years i think to finally build a house. george washington was no longer

president, and the president was john adams. he came down lived here only for a few months before his term, he only served one term. did here, when he lived there, did he have any slaves servicing the white house? >> adams did not own any slaves, but there were enslaved people who worked at the white house. so that you begin to have enslaved people working from almost the inception, really through the 18 fifties. working in the white house itself. >> so he was very careful not to ever own slaves, he did not believe in slavery i guess, but he had some enslaved people working at the white house, he presumably knew they were enslaved. >> there was labor that was needed, so there were, for adams he there were people who did the laundry. they have people who did the work around the exterior, we took care of the horses, when slave. >> where adam succeeded by jefferson, jefferson was a big slave owner. and he had a longtime relationship with a slave,

sally hammocks. did he actually ever brings that we have next to the white house? >> what jefferson did is that, he brought some of saudi henning's family to the white house. but what jefferson did was that he brought a portion of his own enslaved population, but often he used -- because you want to keep people on the plantation. but jefferson realized, like so many, that the key to his success was going to not be able to pay for all the labor, but to use in slave labor to save money. >> so jefferson was succeeded by madison, mattis was also a slave owner. did he bring slaves to the white house? >> nine of the first 12 presidents brought enslaved people, used in slave labor at the white house. because you are really trying to figure out, what do you need to get a building -- to get a white house going. what do you need for the

entertainment? what they realized, it's slave labor that was gonna provide the foundation for them to craft and create what became the white house. >> so one of his aides, or assistance was a slave called paul hemmings, who later wrote a book about what it was like to work at the white house. that book got a lot of credibility that a slave wrote in those days, why did except? it >> i think it's important to realize that, the enslaved people often did not have a voice. but when they did have an opportunity to right, or to have their stories told, they share them in a very candid way. it's really one of the first books to help us understand about what life was like in the white house. and definitely it was interesting because through the lens of someone who was enslaved, brings a special richness to it. >> so many people were from the north were against slavery, but they don't have any problems i assumed one of the white house, they were slave labor they just accepted that as part of life in washington?

>> remember that there is a difference between being opposed to slavery, and feeling that african americans are equal. are people that you can interact with, there are people -- they come from whatever parts of the united states, we're comfortable with african americans and second-class citizens, doing the kind of basic work that needed to be done. may they have imposed slavery? but they also did not champion equality. >> early days of washington d.c., let's say adams and president, jefferson, madison, monroe. washington was mostly a white city, but there were some slaves and some free african americans? >> throughout the 19th century, approximately a third of the population in washington d.c. was african american. there were places like georgetown, that had a predominantly african american community. in the 18th and early 19th

century. and what you have in washington, is, what i love to say is this neighborhood that we are in, was a black neighborhood. it was a neighborhood of an equals, but it was a neighborhood where many african americans lived, many isn't slaves, many us free. so i think it's important to realize that, for many people, african americans, washington became their home. and they did a variety of jobs to be -- >> so the warfare number of fried american -- but there's a number of african american states. did you have to carry papers with you down the street, so someone say your slave you should be doing that? how do they handle that? >> washington became a place that the free black population began to grow. partly, some people were men humid, often when people gain their freedom in places like virginia, and north carolina, they would encourage to leave. not to stay.

many came to washington d.c., as you get into the 18 10:18 twenties, you begin to develop what we call black cults. there were lost pass to control the free black community. to make sure that they register, there were laws in 18 twenties that said if you are free and black and wanted to stay in washington, you needed to have somebody white write a letter attesting to your character. there were laws that prevented african americans from being out together after a certain time at night. or reduce the number of african americans that could come together. part of this is out of fear, part of this is out of social control. >> andrew jackson, when he became president, and he became a slave owner as well, did he bring slaves to washington d.c. as well? >> andrew jackson is so interesting on so many levels, because, not only does he bring enslaved people, but during his administration, through the trail of tears and others, they have this removal of all these indians in the southeast, which

opens up all that inland up. for agriculture, and for southern plantations. what happens, it is a result of jackson's administration. you have thousands of africans who were enslaved in maryland, daryl or, north carolina, d.c.. they move south, they are sold south to build a new plantations. that changes the dynamic. >> the white house today, faces obvious square, and jackson part. a lot of town homes that have been restored there, those homes were initially built by slaves? >> a lot of those homes had, slave labor involved. they were crafts people, sometimes in slaves, sometimes free, sometimes not. so a variety of people, part of what i love about what the white house historical society is doing, is helping us understand boot about who did what. in some ways, this work that is being done, really gives humanity back to these people,

we say were just in slave. one of the >> one of the houses that is still in latvia part, it is the cater house. which is where the white house -- association has its offices. so the cater house was named after a famous navy -- a dual died and did not live very long in that house. but that house had slave quarters and. it is that right? >> there were, that's one of the houses that we know has a slave area that still exists. the re-probably other parts of some of the houses around this area that changed over time. but that is one of the special places to be and able to actually go and stand in a space that the enslaved lived. >> so abraham lincoln is elected president in 1860, and before he in those days, the elections were in november, but you take off until march. so is a long period of time in between. but in a period of time, a

number of southern states began to secede from the. union so lincoln moved to washington, at that time when he came in as president 1861, where there are big african american populations then in the cities? was it larger than the white population? but it was still a slave area is that right? >> when lincoln is elected, in 1860, you have a population of about 12,000 fried africans americans, and about 6000 enslaved. so you see that, although there was a large number of slaves, and slave people early, it changes in washington, so by the time lincoln comes, there is a strong sleigh population. and there's a free black population. where it grows dramatically, is once the war breaks out. and that there are many african americans enslaved, whose self liberate. who leave to come to union lions, or come to washington

and are literally tens of contraband camps, camps of a self liberated. -- senator out seventh in florida, up by the old soldiers home. so washington is changing as a result of the civil war, more and more african americans formally and slave are coming into this era. >> abraham lincoln never owned any slaves is that correct? >> that is correct. >> i think his slave was very anti slavery, as an example of the way he was brought up. again, slavery though, link it was not a great ability enhanced is that correct? >> lincoln believed his biggest issue was -- they shouldn't extend slavery into the new territories -- . >> i think he believed as well, slavery is embedded in the constitution. he believed in the constitution, so he thought, as long as southern states alone have slavery, that was a sanction by the founding fathers, more or less versus original thinking. he obviously changed a bit. okay, so he's in the white

house, and then in the civil where he's conducting that, does he decide it be a good idea to free the slaves to kind of help in the war? why did it take so long for them to come up with the emancipation proclamation? >> part of it is, as lincoln always said, he wanted to preserve the union. it preserving the union meant protecting slavery, and so be it. but ultimately as the war went on, he realized that there were a couple of things that needed to be addressed. first of all, he had to make sure that the confederacy did not get the support of european allies. and so one of the things you want to do is add a kind of moral justification to the war so that you can say, to the french, to the english, to the spanish, this is about freeing people. not simply about an internal civil war. but the second piece that's important is, lincoln recognized the sensuality of slave -- the labor of the enslaved to the south. so what he wanted to do was,

disrupt that. by encouraging people to flee areas that were still outside of control of the union army. and that would disrupt the confederate war effort. >> and before he was president, he served one term in congress as a wig. and one of the bills he introduced was to, and effect, free the slaves in the district of columbia. it is a complicated way was to freedom -- libby compensation that will be gradual, and the slaves will be moved somewhere else which would be called colonization. >> can you explain what colonization was. >>? one of the things that happened was, the belief that you have these african americans who are so different, that ultimately, if they were not held in bondage, that there would be a great problem in united states. jefferson always said that, slavery was like having a wolf by the ear. if you let it go it would get you. it was a fire bell in the night that would shock you, and so

many people felt if you were going to eliminate slavery, you also had to eliminate the enslaved. and so lincoln was part of a group of people who believed that the key was let us and slavery, but let us colonize send them to latin america, back to africa, so they can colonize with sort of the christian spirit that they learned in the united states. but that would be a way to solve the problem. because it was a concern that if you had all these fried people, what do you do with him? do they strike back? because they were angry of the way they were treated? so that was lincoln's notion, he tried several times >> never got anywhere in congress, but when he was president united states, he still was enamored with it, and he had a famous meeting with an african american leaders in which he said come to the white house i want to talk to. with the texas into? >> what he said was, i need your support in this idea of colonizing parts of central

america. that we would send a newly freed to central america. and many of the african americans, the notion of going outside the united states by choice. was a debate within the african american community. the notion of being told to leave merely angered so many of the abolitionist. so people like frederick douglas were really offended and attacked lincoln when it became clear that his initial notion was send these people outside the united states. >> so for those who might not be experts in frank douglas maybe -- he was a freed -- he was a slave who had escape and eventually bought his freedom. but what was his role in society in those days? >> frederick douglass was sort of someone who escaped slavery from the eastern shore of maryland, ended up first in philadelphia, the new york, then the bedford, and he became someone who became one of the leaders in the abolitionist

movement. a brilliant speaker. he became, befriended by abolitionist leaders -- douglas becomes the voice of black america. he creates newspapers, he debates with lincoln. he really was seen as someone who would sort of demand that america live up to its state identity. stated ideas. is not the only person to do that, but he was considered the most visible african american in the 19th century. >> now he was very articulate, very eloquent. many people were surprised by that because, in those days, if you are slave, you are not allowed to learn how to read. it was considered against lonesome states. is that the case? >> in some states yes. >> so how did he learn how to read, and was that part of his appeal that he was very educated and people were so surprised to see such an educated african american at that time? >> i think douglas, there were

two things that were crucial to enslaved people. one was, freedom. that was the most important thing. but the other thing was, that may be the key to freedom was education. being able to read. and so douglas was able to learn to read by playing with some of the children that he grew up with, overlooking a kind mistress who gave him some lessons. but douglas was just someone who is a voracious reader and desire to learn. and he really became, he was a self made man. he really became someone who, focused his career on struggling for fairness in this country. >> so he met with lincoln i think on three occasions in the white house, did he actually have a bond with lincoln? did lincoln actually like meeting with him and so forth? >> there's debates around that. i think initially, lincoln was concerned that douglas was so critical of his criminalization standard, as lincoln is

thinking about the emancipation proclamation, suddenly you are talking to people like frederick gluck douglass about how does this work. douglas becomes then, if not a champion, more of a supporter of lincoln. and there is this amazing scene at the end of lincoln's life where lincoln speaks out his second inaugural, and douglas is there. douglas is trying to get into see lincoln, and he is being stopped by some of the guards. and lincoln sees him, and waves it in. waves him in and says, come in fred douglas. so i think there was a relationship on that sure, it's as close as some people like to make believe. >> after lincoln's assassination, his wife, i guess he gave his walking cane to douglas as a gift. is that correct? >> mary todd lincoln, his widow, gave a walking came to frederick douglass to symbolize which she thought was the bond between -- symbolize that lincoln was

somebody who opened the door and led to the freedom of the enslaved. >> emancipation proclamation is sign -- january 1863, the war ends and april 1865, and then the 13th amendment is ratified after lincoln dies. but it's ratified, so slavery is eliminated. and so in slavery's eliminated, everything in washington is fine, blacks can live next to whites, there is no problem every once treated equally is that right? >> i'm not sure that's even today. (applause) >> how did it happen, if the 13th amendment, then the 14th amendment gave citizenship the blacks, and 15 amendments gave the right to vote, how is it the case that washington became still as segregated a city as possibly as almost any city in the deep south? >> remember, segregation was initially a northern phenomenon. that it's really boston, new

york, philadelphia, and that passes laws to prevent african americans from going into theaters. that really segregates communities, so, they would not be surprising that washington became a segregated city. immediately after the civil war, it was segregated even before. >> so, even when i was young, in the 19 fifties i was in baltimore, but my parents would bring me near washington. it was segregated as much as baltimore was. so the fact that was the nation's capital, did not really change anything, washington d.c. was no different than any other large segregated city in the south of my right? >> there were two differences, one is that washington had the federal government. and so there were opportunities for employment. that many african americans have, not at the highest level, but they had to steady jobs, that you get from the federal government. and also, washington had, washington d.c. had howard university. and how would university is so important, people of

undervalued its impact. because it really made washington, a center of black thinking, education, creativity. and that was also part of the appeal of coming to washington d.c.. >> one of the interesting things about washington d.c. is that, in the constitution, there was no provision to have any electoral votes. and therefore, people who lived in the district, large number of them were african american, did not have any right to vote for the president, or at least members of congress i should say. so, why was that the case and why did people not say -- people who lived in the district should have some voting representation in congress? >> now you're asking me to do my politics. i think that in some ways, there is this debate about what a federal sector is. are u.s. citizen there? what are your rights? i think that the challenge of washington is, that, it really is a place where you can call it, the sort of last colony.

it's it's really (applause) -- i think it's important to grapple with the fact that you've got 600,000 people are more on many of whom are voting age, who really have limited rights, that is not the same people around the country. >> in addition to not being able to vote for members of congress, we'll have members of congress -- to vote in congress, the district was for a long time run in effect by the federal government. their citizens there didn't get to pick their own measures and i right? >> that's right. i think really, home rule is really 1970s creation. >> so let's go back to finish the story while we're almost on with a story of race and washington -- we've compressed a couple hundred years in the 45 minutes. >> we've missed a few insurrections and the like >> (applause) after the reconstruction, because lincoln is assassinated --

under lincoln andrew johnson was not exactly the same person as abraham lincoln. reconstruction led to jim crow laws, the ku klux klan, lynchings throughout the south and so forth. washington d.c., did not do that much about the federal government. it was hard to control by some southern members, who are not really that favorable to african americans. not until the civil rights revolution, in the 19 sixties, did washington get more interested in actually trying to get to change these things is that right? is that when it really came about, the late fifties late sixties when the civil rights revolution came along? the federal government officials said we had to do something to change the laws in this country? >> what you have, washington d.c., again, because have how the university was really at the forefront of demanding fairness in the 19 twenties, thirties, forties. it really was not that they waited until the 1960s, but the pressures on the federal government, the leadership of

the civil rights movement did, the visibility that it received, utilizing the media and television, the pressure on the federal government to change. >> so in august of 1963, is the famous march from washington. the federal government at the time did not want to, president thought it might lead to violence. there was a lot of concern about it. but it actually went forward, and it turned out not to be violent at all. but people were so afraid, the schools were closed, -- so martin luther king was the last speaker that day. he was the last speaker because >> in some ways he was considered the leader of the community, and they wanted to give him the best spot. >> i thought they were afraid that he was so articulate that if he spoke first, the others would look as good. >> john lewis said that. >> so he spoke, and he gave his famous speech. that famous speech, i have a dream speech, was that something he that was written out from the right night before? was it a speech writer that had

given that text? where did that speech come from and, the text that he actually had, he departed from it. why did he do that? >> there were many sources. he had, he had said portions of that speech and other places around the country. the story is, that, as he is giving his speech -- haley jackson the great gospel singer, who was sort of someone that king and mired, yelled back to him. there's a picture of her -- talk about the dream, say the dream. and so the argument is, he changed that to respond emilia jackson. that's a great story, it's not true. but it's a great story. so he already had, he knew he was going to do his i have a dream. >> but that was a speech he given before, i have the green part. the candidate from memory. but many whites who saw it, they were mesmerized, they had never seen him speak that way. and many blacks were mesmerized, they have never heard him speak that way either.

-- so after the speech is over, is he invited to the white house? >> we'll, after the speech is over, what happens is the candidates are moved by what they've heard. by what they've experienced. and i think they began to realize that, if they are going to grapple with civil rights issues, one of the people they need to deal with is martin luther king. so he becomes sort of a person that the kennedys in essentially go to, and there is this wonderful story of, during the elections of 1960, dr. king is arrested. and there was a notion of, who was going to help him. was it someone from nixon administration, or from the kennedy? the candidates actually sent people down to protect martin luther king, and help them get out of jail. and some people argued that really was what helped many african americans, suddenly believe that somebody from massachusetts, with an ax and they did not understand, could really champion their cause.

>> so, presidents kennedy's assassination -- 1963, just a few months from the march in washington. then the johnson, a southerner, and a man who is closest friends in the senate were segregationists, he becomes president. would anybody have predicted that he would lead the effort to get the 1964 civil rights act passed them, and why did he do that given his background. his knowledge of this would probably hurt the democratic party in the south? >> on the one hand, you gotta remember that when lyndon johnson was a teacher in texas, he was very involved with trying to improve conditions for the latino community. so there is a part of johnson that wasn't just, a calculated political move. i think he really felt that, fairness was essential. and that, yes, he knew that it might hurt the democratic party from the white south. but it would ensure that african americans would also rally around the party.

and i think, what is so powerful about lyndon johnson is, that he has the political sophistication, the connections, to be able to go to someone of the dixie kraus -- and the southerners, look i understand who you are. we've got a change. >> okay, so the 64 civil rights act convention -- 65 voting rights act is eventually passed as well. but in lyndon johnson is probably most important person for those acts in the past right? he's an indispensable person? >> i think it is a combination of lyndon johnson's political acclimate, and the pressures that are put on by the civil rights movement. i think as people begin to see birmingham, and selma as people begin to see the violence that african americans, and others endured. there is a sense that the country has to change. and johnson sort of rides that wave. >> if somebody is watching, or somebody's here today, and they

say well i'm pretty interested in what you have to say. what books could i read that might give me a bit more the flavor of what washington went through in the civil rights era? what slavery was in this country? how it was dealt with, eventually by the constitutional amendments? what would you recommend good books for people to read? >> anything by taylor brand. it really gives you a good sense -- >> taylor brown wrote three volumes on the book of the civil rights revolution, which one the pulitzer prize. >> i think that, one of the best books to understand sort of race in the 19th century is david blight's biography of frederick douglass. >> which also won the pulitzer prize. and then there's another book which has not yet won the pulitzer prize, which is your book. highly recommend that book, and that's available on amazon, and anywhere else and in their

tests and when one of my. >> i would never champion my own book. but it's on amazon, and it's on on audiobook. (laughs) (applause) so lonnie, before we wrap up you have given your professional career to causes related to civil rights and slavery, the knowledge of slavery, and obviously -- african american culture museum. -- private equity, something more notable than what you've done, and how do you actually come to this career as opposed to something more important like hedge funds, private equity, or tech start-ups? >> every time i need to put a new roof on the house, i wonder that question! i'm lucky, i grew up in a family that valued education. and for me, i remember growing up in a town that was very few african americans. they were people that treated

me horribly, and other people that treated me fairly. and i could not understand why. and i remember thinking, talking to my parents, maybe if you read history, you'll understand a little bit about these interactions. and so ultimately, history became first away for me to understand myself. and then it became a way to -- four media to think, here is an amazing tool that can help country become better. here's something that if people understand more about their past, their expectations, their hopes, it could change the country for the better. >> you've told a story before, i might just briefly tell it again. when you were younger, your father would take you and your brother and your mother, and you would drive to the south. and you would not stop at certain places, but ultimately, he would take you to the smithsonian. why was that? >> what happened was, during mid sixties, it was an era of the centennial of the civil war, like many kids i was fascinated

by. and one easter, we drove from my home in new jersey, to north -- visit my mother's family. and, i suddenly saw all these museums, in petersburg, in richmond. and i would say to my dad, can we stop at the museum of the confederacy? >> and >> he never stopped. and on the way back i thought, okay i'm on the play this and give him plenty warning. i told him, 20 more miles to the museum, and he kept going. and normally he would drive straight to new jersey. instead, he pulled into washington, and he pulled into the smithsonian, in front of the museum of american -- history today. and he said, here is the place you can learn about your past, your country, and not be concerned about the color of your skin. so for me, the smithsonian is always been a place of fairness, a place of possibility, a place where a young kid could not

learn stories in some places, but the smithsonian always gave him that opportunity. so i feel very humble to be able to be part of the smithsonian. >> (applause) i was the cochairman of the search committee that selected -- lonnie unanimously. and one of the great things about lonnie having been selected, was that when he was officially inaugurated, his mother was there. so what could be better than having your mother come to see you. did you think you should take that job? >> it was my first time my mother said to me, i guess a history degree was okay. (applause) >> lonnie i want to thank you for what you've done for a country, thank you for what you've done for the smithsonian, and have a good night thank you. >> thank you. >> (applause) >> i know can i get

a hedge fund? >> thank you very much, doctor lonnie bunch and david reuben sign for this conversation. in addition to the books that have been recommended, i would like to invite everyone to our website -- white house history .org, where there is a treasure trove on the history of enslaved persons educator house, those enslaved in lafayette park, as we recall today who built the white house. and those enslaved are early american presidents in the white house. thank you all for being here, thank you for supporting our historic mission. (applause) >> how are you gonna see.

thank you very. you're watching american history tv. every weekend on c-span three, explore our nations past. c-span 3, created by americas cable television company -- as a public service. brought to you today by your television provider. american history tv on c-span three, exploring the people and events that tell the american story, every weekend. coming up this weekend, saturday, at ten eastern on real america, 75 years ago, august 15th 1945, mark the end of world war ii. will feature three films about the state of affairs immediately after the war, road to democracy, here is germany and the ceiling on your home. and on sunday, at 6 pm eastern, on american artifacts, a two part program on african americans in congress.

u.s. house of representatives historian matthew wasilewski, and house curator fara early, it is a selection of artifacts until the history of african americans in congress. then at 8 pm eastern, a look at past political convention expense -- acceptance speeches by presidential nominees. including bill clinton, and george h. w. bush. exploring the american story, watch american history tv, this weekend, on c-span three. up next, historian -- talks about the history of slavery in new england, from his book black lives, native lands, white worlds. which focuses on the regions involved and slavery, and the slave trade during the colonial era. they -- hang on the historical society, and i'm society -- cohost of this event. welcome.

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