the images from the 1884

presidential election and listening to campaign songs in support of the republican candidate, james g. blaine. we are live from the blaine house. this is home of james blain, and since 1920, the house for the governor. this house is filled with blaine memorabilia. do you have a sense of the man while you are here? >> absolutely. welcome to the house. mr. blaine is here every day and we see his spirit every evening. and we always say goodnight to him. >> the house was built many years ago. and what have you come to learn about the man by living in his house? >> he not only was a very strong supporter and founder of

the republican party in maine, but also a national leader and he started maine on its course to where we are now. he was very influential in the state government and federal government. he was a powerhouse. a big time powerhouse on a massive scale. i am very honored to be a steward of the house. >> you probably have the best commute in america because this is right across the street from the capitol building. >> that's correct. >> there's maybe better air-conditioning. we are pleased to be here tonight to learn more about james g. blaine. for many people, he has faded into the pages of history but tonight we will learn about the republican members of the state and your state. thank you for having us. >> welcome to the state of

maine and to the people's house. we are going to be live in the next hour and a half learning more about james blain and his america. and about the republican party or that he was so influential about bringing to the state. we will move into the reception room at the governor's mansion, two guests are waiting for me in the will be my guest throughout the program. while we're getting set up, i will show you a clip from a roundtable discussion that we hosted. they talk about james blain and his time. we will see you in a minute or so. >> 1884 against cleveland. ironically, in 1876, it was blaine who prevented ulysses grant from making a comeback and winning a third term. >> besides being secretary of state for james garfield and chester arthur -- >> he was

secretary of state under three presidents. >> what else did he do? >> he was a speaker of the he was congress, he was a very effective iron willed changer. >> he changed some of the rules in the house. the speakers are always changing the rules somewhat to their advantage. smart and capable guy but probably corrupt. >> this was after the civil war when congress was much more central, much more potent than it had been. their reaction against the strong executive said in. to be the speaker of the house, to be a power in congress meant a lot more power than it would today. >> do you have anything to say? >> what do you think would have happened if he won? i think he would be regarded as the best president between

lincoln and tr. very interesting. >> he was assertive, he had intellectual heft. he had a lot of talent. i think that once he had actually achieved it -- people lust after the president's. this is a distorted malignancy that they suffer from. if they survive it and they win the office. i think that blaine is someone like clay. they're very charismatic, polarized figures. i think an office they would distinguish themselves. >> as promised, we are in the reception room. let me introduce you to our guests.

we're joined by the maine state historian and the chair of the history department at colby college. -- we are joined by the state historian. let me have you set the stage for us, the mid 1880's in america. we are 20 years passed the civil war. what was the country like going into this election in which he was a contender? >> we are a long way passed the civil war in many ways and it is indicated by the fact that there will be a democratic president that is elected that year and that would have been unthinkable just a short time before that. >> why was it unthinkable? >> because the republicans were the winners of the war and they had controlled the governmentfor a long time cost the government for a long time. it felt -- they had controlled the government for a long time. >> talk to me about north and south america -- parts of the

difference in their economies. >> the civil war crushed economy in the south so one of the goals of reconstruction was to get the south up and running again but this is on the southern terms. james g. blaine was a powerhouse by 1884. known internationally as well as nationally. but maine haven't been in the union for very long. >> maine had been originally part of massachusetts since the colonial times and became a state in 1820. we went into the union as a 23rd state. we were part of the missouri compromise. missouri was sleeve, maine was free. by the post civil war, maine had initially suffered a bit of a setback during the civil war which sent about 70,000 men to the war. 10,000 had been lost. our population in the decade of the 1860's did not grow.

by 1884, maine was getting back on its feet. maine has had a wonderful resource based industries and so we had ice, granite, lumber, we also had textiles, shoes. blaine was a part and a beneficiary of this very robust economy at the time. >> he contended against democrat, grover cleveland who won. the republican party that nominated him, this was his third try for the white house, he was unsuccessful the two times earlier for a nomination. what was the key to getting the nomination in 1884? >> persistence is part of this. he continued to try and he was recognized as a leading figure in the republican party, there

is no question. one of his many nicknames was mr. republican and he was certainly a leading figure. >> he had some great enemies at the time who tried to deny him the nomination. explain the split in the republican party. >> there was a group of moderates called the mugwumps. this was 1884. they were the intelligence tip from boston, philadelphia, new york. they were folks that believed that blaine was a very corrupt individual. you think of henry adams who wrote "democracy.'he did have very strong enemies even within his party. >> ultimately, this is a very close election. will you tell me about the results? >> he loses by 30 or 40 votes. is that correct?

>> the actual vote, he loses by 25,000 votes nationally. the key to the loss is the loss of new york state. >> new york state was the place where theodore roosevelt was beginning to make his presence known. was he an influence? >> no, he was considered a mugwump, one of the liberals. that is a trend that began his career in that direction at least into the 1890's. >> what is interesting about the 1884 election is that was highly personal. >> highly personal. we usually don't think 19th century politics that they were but they were very personal, especially starting with andrew jackson. this is really a fight about blaine as a corrupt politician and cleveland had a child out of wedlock somewhere in the country. they are slinging nasty mud at each other. >> there are two phrases that

most high school students study in their high school books that are from this campaign, the first is rome, romanism, and rebellion. where did this come from? and why was it so important in the campaign? >> that was a minister and about a week before the election, he gave a talk that blaine was party to in which he denounced the democratic party as the party of rum, romanism, and rebellion. rum, prohibition, romanism, the catholic church. the rebellion is the self. that phrase was carried quickly all over the country. this is one of the phrases that apparently contributed to blaine's loss. >> he did not denounce it. many people thought that he had said it. it is just that he did not denounce it.

>> it effected the new york catholic vote. >> was there an anti catholic mood in the country in some sectors? >> certainly, even still. there had been from the 1840's when the irish were emigrating in large numbers. also the prohibitionists and the temperance movement. >> the second phrase is -- maher, mom, where is my mom? what was that all about? >> that is about this accusation that cleveland had a child out of wedlock somewhere and in fact that he was not the moral upstanding man that could be set to challenge the corrupt and devious blaine. >> he chose a tactic which i read which was not to deny. >> also to pay child support,

pay for the child at the orphanage. >> a lesson perhaps for modern politicians. [laughter] >> i have a book here. the newspapers were partisan reporting on him at the time. this is the book that james g. blaine wrote which helped to set the stage for his campaign -- >> the first volume he began to write it in 1881. the first volume was published in 1884, maybe just in time for the campaign. the second volume did not appear until 1886. however, it was a highly popular two-volume best seller. apparently it sold tens of thousands of copies. it was his personal account of his experiences in washington from the time of the civil war to early 18 eighties.

>> he made a lot of money from this. >> he did, indeed. >> was he able to buy the house from that? >> yes, i think it contributed to that. not this house though, it actually goes back much earlier. in 1862, which is a critical year for him, he is speaker of the main house of representatives and at the same time he is also running for congress for the first time. and it is in 1862 that he buys this house for 5000 dollars. and heat is wife move in with their family, his wife had been built by a retired sea captain. this becomes his great political center for the rest of his life. >> he hosted many dignitaries here. >> what you bear in mind that in 1859, he becomes the chair of the republican party in maine and this is a post that he holds until he becomes secretary of state. in the 20 years or so, this house is a lecture and central

for the republican party in maine as well as a springboard for his national campaign. >> if people could see that the capital is right outside of the window. >> this is a strategic decision to acquire this house. >> ulysses grant stayed here. >> he did. >> we are going to invite you in a little bit on the conversation. we are looking at 14 men and they are men given the presidential election process in this country, who were candidates for president in their time and not succeed for their bid for the white house. james g. blaine was someone who was known internationally. we will spend some time tonight

digging into what made him so well known and why he ended up failing in his bid for the white house. our phone lines will be open and we will take phone calls at about 20 minutes past the hour and we welcome your comments and questions about the gilded age in america and the burgeoning republican party. i mentioned that we are going to be talking about some of his other campaigns and i wanted to start and go back to 1876 which is the first time he ran for the white house. he was nominated at that time, at the convention by someone who coined the term the green night. a gentleman by the name of robert english. do you know anything about that speech and why the phrase stuck? >> my understanding of that speech is that it is a defense of plain against accusations of corruption. in connection with the railroad industry. and that was how he wanted to

introduce him to demonstrate that not everybody believed that he was this corrupt person that people thought he was. >> why did it stick? did you speak to something about james plane? >> i suspect -- he seems to have been someone who really had a great admirers and tremendous enemies and detractors. i think his admirers thought he was a great hero. >> i also think that it was kind of a label that stuck because, and the cartoons of the day, both pro and con, the plume night was a wonderful image to create. it was a lot of interest and romantic literature, and english literature, and he was often shown elizabeth in costume or a night in shining armor. it was a perfect image for him. >> we're looking at one of the political cartoons that you brought along. how important were political cartoons in affecting the electorate at that age? >> they were tremendously important. this was a period in which the coral publication abounded in

america for the first time, they were very widespread. very easily produced and in the case of the political journals, you had the judge, which was pro republican and pro democratic. and in the pages of those magazines, this one that we are seeing now comes from the judge. it's a probe lane cartoon, which shows a plane as the learned, elder statesman in his plume night costume as elizabeth and costume. and all around him are letters from states all over the country begging him to become president of the united states. it's definitely a pro campaign cartoon. >> you told us about the macbooks of 1984, colorful named for factions of the party back in 1876 include the halfbreeds and the squall it's. >> they have briefing to those republicans who did not support ulysses grant and the stalwart

for foreign to those who did. which faction was james de blane at? of >> the halfbreed. >> what happened at the convention that he was not successful in getting the nomination? >> essentially, a short time before the letters were revealed and that created a big scandal for him. the letters involved a very questionable deal involving one of the railroads, and that cloud the picture for him in 1876. >> the nomination went to? >> james garfield. and blane recognized that this was happening at the convention, he actually -- i'm sorry, and 76 it went to rather free rutherford behaves. >> he ran again in 1980. the factions that we talked, about were still active in the party by then? >> i'm not sure they had those terms anymore or were thinking

along the same lines. there were still divisions with within the party. >> that year, james carville did get the nomination -- >> thanks to blue in many ways. can you explain that? >> although blane wanted that nomination himself, it came after many ballots, and understand that was not going to happen. >> i think was the 36th ballot, so he threw his votes to garfield and want to make sure he would get the election. >> what happened to him after that? >> he became secretary of state in 1881. >> now, james garfield, of course, was struck by an assassin to bullet in 1881. i read that james g blane was actually with him at the train station. >> right, he was. >> do you know the story? >> i know that he was nearby and that they're walking arm and arm, very good friends although garfield, remember reading something that said garfield never quite trust his friend james plane. they were good friends and we're together that point and was sending him off on the train to head north, i believe, to give some speeches.

>> we are going to spend a little bit of time before we get to calls learning more about blamed character. we've alluded to some of these about corruption and the like, but before we get to that, if he were to walk into this room today, what did he look like? what did he sound like? what were some of the things that you know from your study of the man? >> i think he was considered very handsome of a man, very well dressed and extremely well spoken. beginning in the late 18 fifties, of course, he started his career here in augusta as a newspaper editor, and got bit by the political bug. by the late 18 fifties, he was very much emerged in emerging republican party. lots of experience in the late 18 fifties and 18 sixties in stump speaking here and maine. that really gave him a lot of practice toward being able to articulate his ideas as he emerged as a national figure.

charismatic magnetism was another word attached to him at the period. >> i know that my understanding is that he had a terrific memory for peoples names so, he was a kind of politician who could really make you feel that he knew who you are, what your particular concerns were, and so on. that made him a very powerful figure. >> there's a story told when he is in the 1884 campaign, he is on a train and he recognizes a man who he had met as a wounded soldier and the military hospital 20 years before, so that was the kind of memory that he had for faces. what >> i get for a politician! to be able to memorize names of people and recall him so he could capitalize that. >> he was a great politician and a master. >> not just in that but his mastery of political tactics? >> master of political tactics, mastery of controlling his

party and leading his party i would say. and there is a sense that when he was in congress during those years that he wrote about, which were critical years for the nation, he did have a way of trying to smooth over some of the terrific differences between the sections, and as congress coming back together to include the south. >> some of the references i read about him though, mercurial, hypochondriac, prone to depression, bouts of depression. can you verify that? >> he was constantly complaining of ill health all through his life. and ultimately, he died at 62 in 1893. and the last few months of his life, he was truly ill. >> he had writes disease. he >> was also relentlessly ambitious and, i know i read some of what he said. there was nobody who yearned or hungered for the presidency more than james plane. >> throughout his career, the charges of corruption from his

days promoting the railroad lobby in congress stuck with him. we have another one of these political cartoons and referred to on the tattooed man, many of the charges against him. tell us more about that episode and why was so significant. >> this comes from top and the election in 1884. it is actually a tremendously powerful image in that election in that it is recognized as one of the factors that helped defeat lane. essentially, lane is shown as a roman senator in the roman senate and his toga is being lifted from his body. underneath our his various political sense tattooed. and the senators are looking aghast at his political misdeeds being revealed. and in the midst of that crowd, are his running mate and also a

young teddy roosevelt as well. >> the mulligan letters were his defense, was it a successful defense industry really recorded whether or not he was corrupt? >> i think the mulligan letters where the accusation, as opposed to his defense and he tried very hard to make them seem as if they had no value. i read something about him slamming them down on the desk at a daring people to read the letters. once he had stolen them from whoever had them in the first place, he went to the hotel and set, let me see the letters and then took them with him and disappeared with them to never return. so he try to use them as a way to protect himself. but there is no clarity that he was not guilty. i think it was clear that he was. somebody called him a handyman, or the boss boy or something to that effect, but he was so tight with the railroad industry. unlikely he was --

>> they continue to dog him. in the 1884 campaign, someone published what was believed to be a version of the letters. and he never pointed to resolve that in his career. >> we are going to involve some of our viewers in our discussion of james blane, 18 eighties america. our first caller is from roger and he's watching us in atlanta. roger, you're just on the air. >> hi, how are you? >> great, thank you. >> i just finished reading the biography of speaker read and for two people who were really powerful in the republican party, they seemed from the same place, they seemed really distant. is that true we or was that just a feature of the biography? >> no, i think you are correct in mentioning top-end reed who was born in portland in 1889 and was a little bit younger,

he spent the entire public life as a congressman. he rose to be speaker, like lane was also speaker from 1869, and he served in the late 19th century and into the 1890s. i think that corruption was never a question in relation to read. reed was, i think, a very honest and forthright individual, person of great integrity. and i think in addition to that, reed is described as a towering figure in the history of the development of the congress, and considered by many to be one of the most influential speeches of the house in the history of the house, primarily because of his reform of the house, the recognition that the majority rule had to be counted and had to be taken into account. >> next caller is jim, watching

us from san francisco. hello, jim. >> i think you are right on the major issues here. it seems to me that the country was going through a major transition from the old money having formalized the ethical values, and then we transition the country with the railroad and two big industrial corporations and raising money for corporations. very different sets of values. the question is, how could someone who was busy making all the deals and representing wall street, maintain any kind of public reputation in the situation? >> certainly, i think one answer to that wood that there was great recognition of his sheer power. so because he was so powerful and could do so much for the party and for its other goals,

people could set aside -- some people at least could set aside his apparent very close relationship with the railroads industry. >> next is a call from sharon, watching us from portland, new york. hello, sharon. >> i, i want to think c-span for bringing this wonderful series, and my question is this. did mr. blane make money before he went into politics, or did he come from a family that had amounted to begin with. thank you. >> good question. blame came from a modest background, he was born in pennsylvania, he started off as a teacher, and then he married harriet stan would from augusta, maine in 1850. there was actually some question about the validity of the marriage, so they were re-married in 1851. and by 1853, they were getting word from her relatives in augusta that there was a business opportunity for him to come back.

so we relocated to augusta in 1854. from 54 to 58, blane was the editor of a journal, which is still being published today. and he also was involved editorially in the portland advertiser, which was a daily paper. and there we are seeing today's issue of the journal. that's the oldest continuous daily newspaper. >> still alive and publishing. we are in the study in the blane house and looking at the death from the time period. the newspapers of the time, both a newspaper man and very involved in party politics. was that common? >> that would've been very common. i think that was one of the primary ways that politicians got the word out about whatever their policies were. certainly, no television, people were very interested in -- there was no radio. no internet. newspapers and public speaking with the ways that politicians operated.

>> i think we have to remember that newspapers were very partisan in those days. >> and shamelessly so. >> self admitted, and then a particular individual would start a newspaper, not only just to report the daily news of the community, but also to promote a particular political view or political party. >> was his interest in the republican party -- out of the newspaper business in the republican interest intercept? >> i think it's very interesting. 1854, the year that he comes to augusta and becomes the editor of the journal is the year in which the national republican party is founded, he is involved in that, other famous are, including the first civil war governor of maine. and the newspaper is very much aligned with that rise in the party in maine. >> i'll take a telephone call from washington, d.c. marvin, he's watching us.

>> oh, hi. i find this very fascinating, and i was wondering how would america be different, or how would our country be different if mr. blane had become president, and also in terms of why we don't really care about him in the history books, can you elaborate further on that? >> thanks for watching. well, how would the country be different and who had been elected? >> i'm not sure the country would be terribly different. i think, perhaps mckinley becomes a very pro business president in, what, 1896? and a republican, and i think that blane maybe would have brought that earlier change, had he become elected in 1884. what do you think? >> the only thing i would add is that some scholars have said that blane, because of his

personal magnetism would have perhaps been a great leader for the country and projected an image of confidence and power that had really been lacking in recent presidents in that period. and that he might have been the most important figure, perhaps between lincoln and teddy roosevelt. >> chicago's up next. dave, you're on the air. hello, dave. >> they, are you with us? >> yes, i am. i just wanted to mention, if i'm correct that there was a comment about brain that we he was also referred to as 20 years fake, and -- >> well, there is that. we are used to be a locomotive engineer so there's some

validity today we, a small town in west virginia who built with in western maryland named blane west virginia. so he endorsed on the railroad that way. and if i also remember correctly, it's one of those things that we have to watch what people say in your favor, because if you do not lose new york because he did not refuse the statement, people would not support a party of democrats if there was a rome, and rebellion. we thanks for taking my call. >> thanks for watching, we talked about the rum roman-ism and rebellion, but 20 years on the mend, right? >> nest was probably the greatest civil war and post civil war cartoonist. >> the harper's weekly was his form. every week he created a fascinating and challenging political cartoon.

and he just did not like blane an excoriated blane in his cartoons. >> i think there was also an incident in the 1884 campaign where he went out to dinner while he was in new york at this incredibly wealthy lunch of millionaires, maybe all the top millionaires of new york, despite the fact that new york and the country was in a great depression, and struggling greatly. he seemed to be completely blind to the inappropriateness of that. >> that was the very day that he was witness to the speech. and in the morning he did all monaco's restaurant, which was the most fashionably hip restaurant in new york. that was reported to the press as his feast. >> 13 years in the u.s. house of representatives during the period of reconstruction. we're in a study again and he has his congressional desk in

their. the period of time of reconstruction. where was he on the issues regarding reconstruction? >> my sense is that he was largely a moderate, which would have helped to make him provide some bomb to the nation, they say he was quite successful in taking congress at one of the most difficult times of its history, and smoothing a lot of feathers. but he was also an early advocate of black suffrage, which i find quite interesting. that would not have been a moderate position. i think, myself and my sense was that that was more opportunistic than anything else and that he was among those who believe that black suffrage was important, not because it was important for blacks but because it was important to the vote, so they would vote republican and vote for him. >> he also had, we talked about his enemies, he had a very well-known enemy with a publicize fight at that period, rascal conquering.

who is that? >> he congressman from new york -- >> i can't speak so vividly about him either. i know that there was a struggle between the two of them, which led to a historic fight on the floor of the house of representatives. we have a clip about it from the senate historian, don richie. listen. >> at that period, the two leading republican politicians were moscow cancun, the u.s. senator from new york, and james plane, a u.s. senator from maine. they were both dynamic, they're both articulate, they were magnetic personalities, they were just attracted lots of people to them. they could give the speech to the convention and knock it out of its mine, they were so terrific and they were legislative geniuses. they battled out in the 18 seventies and they hated each

other with an absolute passion. no two political figures have hated each other so much as moscow concubine and james blane. it was partly because they were about the same age, the same ambition and knew that one or the other was going to stand in the way of the other getting to the white house at some point. and the rivalry started back when they were in the house of representatives in the 18 sixties. and ross go conclusion was an enormously proud and vane man, very handsome, dressed to the nines and strutted about a way that made some of the rest of the members of congress uncomfortable. so we kept it out of the way of him, never had a good word for anyone, but james blane was a young and upcoming politician from maine, unafraid to take on anyone. and in the debate at one point in 1866, he launched into one

of the most savage attacks of another member of congress imaginable. under the rules, you cannot attack another, but it was full of sarcasm, and with illusions to the hyperion parole that rascal confluent had. the turkey gobbler's strut if you walked around. it was terrific. first off, it made all of conclusions laugh at him, and gave a tremendous amount of ambition to the editorial cartoonists. from then on, they were always making him into a turkey or some other figure. we >> senatorial don richie, and what you're looking at on your screen is here in the blane house in augusta, maine. and the blane study is a chaise lounge from the capital senate, that is preserved here and it's very much in use.

interesting to listen to the characterization there. politics you think of colorful today, but that was something that people used to say to one another. was it widely reported in the press? how did they get reported to us? >> the press was very lively in those days. we and then the way in which the information was translated to other newspapers around the country was through the telegraph, and stories would be written and then telegraphed to other papers and then copied from other papers as well. >> politics was entertainment. i think there was much about it that was not just about the politics, but about the entertainment value that it had. and great writing and clever phrasing. >> big sports teams, people follow politics. next is helen watching us in cape maine, new jersey. >> this is a wonderful series, so thank you so much.

all my students are watching, and they will be tested. out there paying attention. >> we have teachers here, so we are glad about that. >> have a question about the blane amendment, he tried to have an amendment to the constitution. was their motivation or some other motivation that went along with that? >> more than 20 states had plain amendments, even though it was not successful on the national level. >> it's 37, wow. the blane amendment was an amendment that he proposed that would prevent schools from using federal funds -- religious institution from using federal funding, if i'm not mistaken. and it's still in place. this separation of church and state. >> you know if it ever had a supreme court challenge, they said it made its way through the courts as we have been

discussing the separation of church and state so often in this country. >> i don't know that it has. what we know about plain amendments then? >> maybe because there are attempts not from the supreme court side, but from individuals who are constantly trying to challenge that separation. >> what motivated him in putting it forward? >> i think that it was 1875, and i think he may have already had his eye on that 1876 election, may have been opportunistically picking an issue, and are not beyond thinking there was an anti catholic component to it as well, since those with the institutions that would've been most likely to be trying to not pay taxes over his federal funding. >> what was blamed for the gym? >> he was a congregation list -- >> did he have a catholic mother? >> yes, he did. he attended the south parish church here in augusta. in fact, there are beautiful tiffany memorial windows that

he and other members of his family in that church. >> we have a viewer from d.c. calling us next named ron. you are on the air. >> good evening, susan. hello? >> thank you. thanks for hosting this series, and i have been watching c-span for many years. all the programs have been so great. i just want to say thank you. my question goes to the chinese exclusion act, and at that time, i believe that most new england republicans were against the chinese exclusion act because they tend to be more liberal, and they were not on board with that. but plane started out with the southern democrats. i wonder why was he not so liberal in terms of civil rights at that time, compared

to the other new england republicans? i'd like to learn about that. we >> i think it is similar to her answer on another issue, that is this is a man who always had his eye on the presidency. in order to win the presidency, you needed to do it from a nationwide perspective. i think he recognize particularly in the west and in california, that chinese immigration was a major issue. and he one of those votes. >> what i'm taking away from this is that this is a man who wanted the presidency, desperately. and it was not ideologically driven so much as figuratively. >> that is certainly one way to interpret his political career. when i think about the pro black suffrage policy and think about the same time above the chinese exclusion act policy, i

find it hard to bring those two together if he was racially progress of. then why would he not be racially progressive on the other side? that is an indication, i think, as an opportunistic approach andrea beshear's. whatever will meet the election. >> welcome to the conversation. if he was he so obsessed with the presidency that he considers himself a failure for not obtaining it? thank you. >> that is an interesting question. i do not think we get that sense, i think what happened, he went through the process three times. 1876, 1880, 1884. he was also kind of dangled in front of him in 1888 and in 1892 even though he was a very old man. i think he felt toward the end of his life his great accomplishment was that second term of secretary of state

between 1889 and 1892. he was able to play out a lot of his ideas not only on the national scene but the international scene as well. i do not think he viewed his career as a failure. >> you're watching c-span contender series, we will take a short break until you more about the series. for more information on our series, the contenders, go to our website at c-span.org. there you will find a schedule of the series, biographies of all the candidates. historians appraisals, and portions of their speeches when available. that is all at c-span.org slash

the contenders. we now return to maine and our discussion on the life of james blaine. >> you are looking a live picture of the blaine house in augusta, maine, the state capital. it is now the official residence of the mayor since 1920. we are live inside, guest of the governor and his family to learn more about this houses long term owner james blaine. longtime owner, unsuccessful presidential candidates. he made a mark on this country we are learning more about tonight, our two guest joining us is the main state historian, and that historic preservation. history department chair and specialists in civil war america. we are taking your telephone calls. we are welcome to have the you join the walk in conversation.

-- we welcome your involvement in this. tell me about about main in this time of year. we talked about it earlier, him coming here as a young man, how difficult would it have been to establish himself? >> i think that he had a very good connection with his wife's family, they were a prominent family here in augusta. and that connection had become -- that editor of journal connection was made by family and friends who wanted his wife back here. they also wanted to make that opportunity available to him as well. he really came at a perfect time, the 18 fifties, a decade before the civil war. maine was really at the zenith of prosperity. there is a recession in the

late 18 fifties but generally speaking, mean is really costing in both its economic and political force at that time. >> last week we are at the home of henry clay, where their connections between the two? >> there were in the sense that he had grown up in the house where clay was idolized. clay was my idol for him as well. when he is a young man, he spent time in kentucky and working as a teacher and he made the point of seeing clay whenever he could when he was in kentucky. he was very devout. >> i think there is one account at the age of 17, he attended one of clay's major speeches in 1847 and took copious notes on it. >> our next caller in our discussion is from indianapolis. this is. edward >> hi, how are you? >> great, thanks. >> your question? >> what was the role of blame

as secretary of state under benjamin harrison? >> if you would do that briefly cause we're going to spend more time on the secretary of state. he served under three presidents as secretary of state. >> yes, garfield, arthur and harrison. harrison was the long period. garfield was less than the years time. with harrison, he was in a wonderful position because he really had reached the zenith of his career. he was viewed as a powerful, if not more powerful as the president himself. he had this free reign to develop ideas that he had been working on for years in terms of international relations. his particular interest during the 1889 to 92 period, was central and south america. he developed, including the idea for the pan american union, and so on. >> that's right, i want to get

more involved in that a little later on. >> let me ask you about the study here, there are few memorabilia pieces with abraham lincoln. he was a supporter, but what did he know of him? >> i don't know if he knew him personally. had he met him? >> yes, he went to congress. he was elected to congress in 1862. he would have served in washington from 1863, lincoln was assassinated on april 14th. that was in 1865. this was a very poignant reminder of his connection with lincoln here at the house. there is a little card, literally seven days before lincoln is assassinated, that blaine went to link him to get commission to visit richmond, virginia. we know from other instances that he would've had opportunities to meet and talk

with lincoln. we also know that he was admirer of lincoln, that when he built the addition to the house in 1872 for the study, he wanted to use the very same wallpaper in his study that lincoln had used in his cabinet room. >> we are showing that wallpaper the people as we speak. that was the courage you saw. i believe it is a replica? >> that's right. >> it is a permission slip to travel to richmond, which would've been necessary at the time. >> water ville, maine. alexander, you are on the air. i >> was wondering what kind of other tactics he used to support the fact that he had a child out of wedlock? >> of course there would've been political attacks as a democrat and representative of the party that had folded into the rebellion. >> how scandalous would it have

been in this time period to have a child out of wedlock? >> i think it would've been quite scandalous. >> i would think so too. >> and just to answer that question a little bit more, there were nuts and bolts issues to the campaign of 1884. one of the strong issues that the republicans and democrats deferred on in a post civil war period was the tariff, how much to tax goods coming and going. and the tariff was a major factor. >> currency was also getting to be a major factor? >> very much so. had been since the civil war, it had proliferate it the use of paper currency. so the whole issue of green back currency was very much in the 18 seventies and 18 eighties and into the nineties. and then it went its way to the free silver issue. >> houston is up next, our caller's name is james. >> hello.

>> you are on the air. >> we you mentioned the civil war government, the first republican government was my great great grandfather. i wonder what his role was with blaine. additionally, i think the rift might have cost him his presidency. people i think some of that came back to haunt him. >> thank you for your contribution. >> how noble helen was born in 1889 on paris hill in oxford county. he was a highly skilled lawyer who had served as governor of maine briefly and became a senator. and then in 1860, he is chosen as lincoln's running mate for vice president and serves as

the vice president of the united states from 1861 to 65. and then after the war, he goes back into political life again as a senator. he would've been very much a part of his world in the republican party in maine. hannah ball was a powerful, towering figure. and he would've interactive constantly with blaine. >> he stood against chinese exclusion, he was a republican who stood against blaine the. >> since we are in a period of time where you hear people bring up the plush of maybe this time for a new party. that the two party system is failing us. this is a period where we saw the evolution of political parties from the wigs to the republicans, can you take a minute and explain the demise of the wigs and the rise of the republicans? >> i think it is very much associated with who you are

talking about with henry clay, when he died he was so closely connected to that party that it collapsed but it was not just about henry clay. it was about slavery issue and the and to immigrant as you. it was another number of issues that led to the development of this political chaos which gave way to the republican party but also the split in the democratic party over the course of the 18 fifties. >> we love to introduce you to books and our guest, elizabeth, has just seen today the first brand new book copy. her fifth book, take a minute until civil this. >> joseph holt was a lincoln's general. he was very important figure in lincoln's administration. he was the chief of military justice. after he was assassinated, he was the prosecutor of the lincoln assassins. anybody who has seen the film,

the conspirator, could see that representation of him. nobody knew who he was, now some people do. >> congratulations. >> we are in a historic house and it is funny because it's not the top of the hour, a couple of minutes early, but the clocks are ringing and you will hear a couple of them at the top hour as we get into the second half of our program. let me take another telephone call, it is from michael watching us in tampa. >> we i think your show is wonderful, i appreciate the historical commentary as well as that interviewers cometary. my question is, can we put forth some commentary relative to blaine experience in time as compared to today's political landscape? >> what do you mean? >> give me a little more of what you would like. >> i think blaine represents

something that is pretty dominant in the american populist today. that is not being representative, i think he was very inspiring to hear about at this time. i'm just curious of some personal input from all three you relatives to that landscape of then versus today >> thank you very much. i will ask both of our guests. >> i am not sure what you are looking for. if you are asking whether i think he is a politician whether he would be reckoned as it will today, i think he would be kind of recognizable in his ability to know the political system, to manipulate the political system. to be a real career politician. he's a certain type. >> could he have competed in today's -- lets to an analogy. could have brought some of his characteristics been successful in today's political world? with his charges of corruption? >> what would be different about that?

>> good question. i think he had a lot of personal skills that probably would stand him in good stead today. clearly, to be an effective leader, you need to have a charismatic personality and be able to get your message across well. these are things that he did very successfully. and also he really understood the behind the scenes working of the political scene. really from the 18 fifties right into the 18 nineties. >> we talked about the media being so supportive of parties. someone who had persistent charges against him, where their investigations by the media at the time? >> certainly. they were looking into it but i think even so today we investigate peoples corruption all the time, and they still proceed with their careers. >> phoenix is up next, that's

josh. >> yes, good evening. i'm particularly -- i hope your guests can comment about mr. blane's foreign policy. as secretary of state, what his opinions were? if you go abroad, i'm specifically interested in south and central america. i was born in cuba, and during the end of the 20th century, you know, with a cuban revolution as his starter. i was wondering if mr. blamed ever went to countries outside of the united states, and what his opinions were on colonialism by spain or other countries, and if he did anything about, or had any feelings about those kind of issues. i'll hang up and listen. thank you. >> in your question is so

timely, because it's time for us to spend some time learning about his years as secretary of state. we said he served three presidents, and some historians suggest that we look at blane's legacy. it's really in the area of international affairs. so, can you speak to his influence and then answers question about whether he left the country? >> i'll take the first one first, if that's ok? >> i don't believe that he went to central left or south america. but europe, yes. he traveled several times to europe in the period between the time that he ran for president and the time that he became secretary of state. he's been quite a bit of time in europe, and some of that time was actually with a very close friend of his in scotland. in terms of his significance as secretary of state, and the development of policies as has been mentioned before, they were really primarily focused on central and south america,

and this was a progressive thing to be doing an american foreign policy, those areas had largely been ignored since the days of the monroe doctrine. he was very concerned about britain having an unusually strong influence on some of the countries, particularly argentina. many of those countries were fighting among each other, and he thought that in order to have a strong and safe america, you also need to have a strong and safe neighbors to the south. >> before you answer, we have another political cartoon. it's titled the old scout. what is that about? >> this is a probe lane campaign piece, from the judge and it shows blane as an old western scout on a horse with an old tattered hat, and -- >> look at all the peoples of the world looking at him. >> exactly. this is a plane from around

1890, and he is actually leading the people of central and south america into a new world he. he is giving them leadership and this is reflecting his pioneering work in creating what became the pan american union. the opportunity for people to meet diplomatically in both hemispheres. >> where would he have gotten these ideas from? >> i think it goes back to the monroe doctrine. i think he is very much trying to revitalize that older image of hemispheric unity, and also hemispheric defenses. something that i find entering is this notion that he did feel that the monroe doctrine extended as far west as hawaii. he had his eyes on hawaii, even though he was talking about, perhaps, hemispheric integrity, he also had an imperialistic strain to him, wouldn't you say? >> certainly, the hawaii episode -- of course, this is the end of his life and doesn't live long

enough to see hawaii annexed, but he sets it in place by sending his friend in the 18 sixties, and he sends him as his special temporary to hawaii to foment revolution. >> one of the quotes from a historian i wrote down was that blamed envisioned an influential america based on its increasing wealth. you mentioned that he had an american-centric view even as he was running out. >> he was very interested in american wealth and this expansion. >> the interesting thing -- we have a caller talking about thomas read. and there is a very strong difference there between blane and his worldview, and thomas b reed who actually resigned from the house after the spanish war

because he was so concerned about the imperialistic a direction that he perceived america going in. so they were very different views in america and the late 19th century about the direction of the nation as a world power. >> he was serving under president benjamin harrison? how strong a president was he? >> i think he was generally perceived as a fairly weak president, and that blane was a shadow president. this was reflected in a lot of the popular literature and cartoons again. >> i read a similar sort of thing about him when he was secretary of state for garfield that he -- the author was defending garfield as being powerful and that relationship, but he was defending it against a long tradition of people that were saying that it was plain running the show. >> wisconsin rapids wisconsin, this is david. hello david, you are on. >> i was wanting to know, with him being the grassroots

republican, did he have any influence, or was there any fingerprints that he put on that was a constant political party that would become progressive at that time period, up until the 1900, 19 tons? there is a lot of policy that we still have by, workers comp and workers rights. did he have anything to do with anything or any forms at all with influencing anybody? thank you. >> i think we're talking about the next generation of politics. we are talking about the teddy roosevelt era, the progressive era from the early 1900s and the reforms that you are talking about the wisconsin is so noted for, and the reforms that extended to other states as well are post 1900, usually. >> i would think that he would've been very

pro-capitalized. if we're talking about workers rights and so on, he was with the millionaires. he wasn't meeting with the laborers to see how they felt about things. >> this is bruce, you're on. >> good you give us the brief history of how the state of maine was able to acquire that from the plane donation? and also mr. blane's death in washington d.c. and his subsequent burial 20 years later back in august. >> i'm going to ask you not to talk about the death now, because we're going to show a little bit of his grave site. but about the house, please. >> i mentioned a little bit earlier that the house was built by a retired sea captain from bat in 1833. our state house was right across the street, it had just been finished in 1832, so four hall and blane, this was a really strategic location for home. the house was acquired by blane

and his wife in 1862, he died in 1893, and she in 1903. then, the house was really inherited by their surviving children. then, in the 19 teens, the house went to blane's grandson, walker blane veal. walker plane beale was tragically lost and a last month of world war i in 1918 in france, so the house went back to harriet plane bill again, and she in turn gave it to the state of maine in 1919 as our governor's mansion. it was restored and remodelled so that it could be used as the home of maine's governors, and governor the page, the 21st family to live here since 1920. >> let me introduce you to another gentlemen that we want to bring into the discussion, and let me show you as we start

out here, a biography that he wrote. this book is confident a liar from the state of maine. a campaign slogan used against james blane, of course. and he's joining us from inside the blane house. how did you get interested in james plane to write a biography about him? >> basically, i had been involved in this house since 1966. i was assistant to the governor, so i knew all about the blane house. later on, another governor named king asked me to be the co-chair of a group called friends of the plane house, so i was spending a lot of time here. and i notice that there was a little bit about lane here, but there really wasn't very much. and there was no up to date biography of him. the previous biographies were about 70 years old then, and

two of them were written in the 1930s. so i thought it was high time that this fascinating character, who came within a whisker of me, should have another biography, and that is how i got involved. >> you said fascinating. what are some of the other adjectives, descriptive words that you would use to describe james blane? >> repeat it. >> what are some words that you would use besides fascinating to describe him? >> the one that the used a lot was a magnetic. and they called him the magnetic man, because he had a magnetic personality, and when he would walk into a room, he just fill the room. everybody flocked and he was sort of a natural in that regard. >> i know you've been listening to our conversation. >> do you have a favorite story that we have not told tonight? >> i did not hear everything that you said, but i'm going to

start by talking about the first time that he was secretary of state, and i don't know how much you got into his relationship with garfield. >> that's all right, just tell us about him please. >> garfield was like a protége of his. in fact, he helped him get through the real tough path down in congress when garfield was accused of corruption and of taking some stop that he should not have taken. he got him out of that, and they were just very close friends. but in 1881 plane was running to the second time and he kept ulysses grant from getting the nomination, but he did not have enough force to get the nomination for himself so he turned it over, he turned his votes over to garfield and that

is all garfield, who was a very dark horse from the convention started and happen to end up as the republican nominee. the quid pro quo was that the number one job in the cabinet. was to be secretary of state. so it was understood between them and he would become secretary of state. >> let's take another telephone call, less than 20 minutes left in our 90 minutes on james g blane. ohio. this is chris. >> i'm curious about blames relationship with that is stephens and charles sumner, both radical republicans before, during and after the civil war. the relationship might be in thing because sumner was chair of the senate foreign relations committee. >> thank you. is that something you can take

us through? >> with that is stevens, blane made a name for himself when he was elected to congress by taking on stevens, who everyone was afraid of. and contradicting him. i don't know exactly what his relationship with sumner was, but blane was not a radical republican. he was a moderate in that regard. he still wanted to build the republican party in the south, and that is why he was so strongly for suffrage for the freed slaves. and that fourth of reconstruction. he was not for tremendous punishment for the south that some of the radicals were. >> our colors are here as we talk about the life in times of

james blane, in unsuccessful who nominee, but we believe that he had an outside and's influence. with the nails, california. you're on the air. hello, eric! >> hello, how are you? continuing on about james blane's personality, i was wondering if he was larger than life character. do you see him embodied in any current politician? let me ask everyone briefly. we have a little time to think about it here. >> no, i don't think so. he was considered a very congenial person and of course he came from away hours we see in maine, he came up here as a young man and immediately was accepted by people here because

he was so good with people. and so he was sort of a combination of various people that we have now but i don't see anyone that has his intellectual depth. he was a very bright guy and we'll read. i was reading about him going to parties in washington and being described as being surrounded by all the women there because he was reading them poetry. >> that gets us all the time, doesn't it? >> have either of you thought about comparisons to today? >> i thought about bill clinton but i don't see there -- in some ways, that kind of great personal style, larger than life, very commanding. my understanding of bill clinton is that when he walks into a room, he takes center stage without trying. >> and a great orator. >> and very bright. he's very intellectual figure.

the other person i thought of was lyndon johnson, in terms of him being a party man and knowing everyone and knowing how to gather people together to do what he wanted. >> and how to work this system. >> and a little corruption here and there. we >> are live inside the governor's mansion in augusta, maine. we have about 15 more minutes on blaine. sean, you are on. >> good evening. i was wondering, was there any connection between blaine barr -- was there any connection between blaine and the southern railroad? >> we will take it in here. >> but what was that? >> we'll take it in this room, residents in washington d.c.. >> yes, in 1881 when he became secretary of state, he decided to build a large, gilded age

mansion on dupont circle. that houses still standing today. and it was a house that he only kept for a few years. and of course, in the post 1884 election, he knows wave traveled a lot. it was at that same time, hefter giving up the washington residents, that they build another big gilded age victorian summer cottage here in maine. then, he became secretary of state for the last time, he actually acquired secretary of state william moore toasts near the white house. that is the house he died in 1883. >> he was there for a short time, he had one of his daughters who is married there. his wife hated the place. it is absolutely mammoth. and it is still standing on massachusetts avenue.

if you are interested in that period of history, you can see it's. up next is stanley, hi stanley. >> i would like to know are there any books that either elizabeth or you recommend for reading in regards to blaine. >> i would suggest the book that you are holding right there. >> and if you want to know about the time period or the state in addition to this, some other rebook's you could recommend? >> i would agree. neil's book is the most recent, the most up to date, the most comprehensive of blaine. you have to go back to the 1930s to find two biographies of him previous to that. as to state history, actually, neil was also an author there. he is a couple of wonderful

overview histories of the state of maine. >> you are getting a lot of valentines in this room here. >> keep it up. >> while we are talking about houses, in your book, you describe the scene when blaine learns he is successful in obtaining the republican nomination in 1884 and he goes to the front door of this house to greet his supporters. will you tell us about that time? >> actually win the news first came, the people were gathered down on water street which is right down by the river. around the post office, his biggest crony was the post master down there. they were putting up signs about how the land -- how blaine was doing. also, the blaines have a

telephone. they were probably one of the first in the nation to have a telephone. the phone rang. his daughter, maggie, picked it up and learned that he won. she ran out into the front lawn where blaine was lying in a hammock. she said, you have won father. you have won. everybody marched up the hill from water street to greet their hero. a huge crowd gathered. then it started to rain. you heard a voice yelled out from the crowd -- we have been waiting 11 years for this rain. blaine said they were all getting soaked. he gave his speech then. everybody started pouring in here from all over the country.

they had a train come from california which had the california delegates to the chicago convention. people started coming from all over the state of maine. all over the united states. john logan eventually -- called him black jack logan, spent a few days with blaine. >> i want to thank you for adding to our rich knowledge of james blaine. one more thing before we say goodbye to you, continental liar from the state of maine -- it is available wherever you buy books. our guest is part of our program as we learn more about this for a colorful and intellectual man from the 19th century known, not only around the united states but around the world. >> i would like to ask you,

what is blaines relationship to joshua chamberlain? he was a civil war general. he was a republican. what was their relationship? >> as you mentioned, joshua chamberlain served four terms after the civil war. chamberlain was a very independent individual. he was not comfortable with blaine's brand of politics. i think there was ample evidence they did not get a long that well. they were not close compatriots in the party. chamberlain did not go for their politics after the governorship. he became president of the college. later on, he became collector of the port of portland.

>> we had a caller that mention the towns that were named for james. we did a little bit of research. we found a number of cities and towns -- rather counties and towns named for james blaine -- mostly after the time. around his death. can you talk a little bit more about honoring people -- especially james g. blaine in the communities around the country >> one thing i heard when i learned about that, several of them were out west and i thought about his whole push in 1879, 1880, to build those with the chinese exclusion. maybe he did some favors out west, i don't know if there was any connection but it's interesting a republican figure in maine that was well known but clearly in the west was known. >> up next is jim. hello, jim. >> most of blames history was during reconstruction, he was a

moderate republican but could you nuance a little bit to what degree he negotiated or supported the reassertion by southern whites? >> i am sure he would have said that he stood firmly against the reassertion of power by southern whites. but he was a moderate. he was in line with those who believed that the nation should move forward and that the radicals were really holding it back. of course the radicals were in favor of punishing the white southerners, the rebels, as best they could. i do not think it would have been in any way good politics for him to step up for white southerners. i do not think he was strongly going to take the position that he should be punished. >> can i ask you, what is the incident of him sponsoring a

bill that would exclude citizenship -- >> right, in 1876 when he was throwing his hat in the ring for the presidency, he sponsored this bill that said that all of the remaining confederates, former confederates, who were -- who had not yet been given amnesty, should be given amnesty except for jefferson davis, which was endorsing. >> what was the politics of that? >> it provoked a great fight in congress, people felt it was great because they felt that you could still hold jefferson davis accountable. others thought that he was doing what they called waving the bloody shirt, the nation was moving away from the war at reconciliation and why was he provoking this kind of dispute? >> we have about five minutes left, independence, iowa. this is joe. >> paula >> like joshua

chamberlain, ulysses grant, william mckinley, blaine had no military record in the civil war. his running mate had one and was the first president of the grand army of the republic -- the great republican organizations throughout the states. and give us a memorial day. was not a ticket balancing move in some sense? was it part that they are trying to cover the fact he had not served? >> there is no question that that was a political balance on the ticket. logan was very well known. the veterans vote was very powerful force in the post civil war period in america. we blaine, because he was very involved in emergencies -- when the civil war broke out he was the speaker of the house in maine. the main house of

representatives. he was about to run for congress so he did what many men did at the time, he actually bought a substitute. it costs about 300 dollars to have someone else go in your stud. cleveland had on the same thing, it was a very interesting situation that prior to the 1884 campaign, you always had someone in office and in the presidency -- grants and haze and garfield, who had been civil war officers. we blaine and cleveland were not. >> whatever had won, it would have a break in that generation. >> we have a viewer who asks about his death. will you tell the story about his death? >> as it has been mentioned, he was a man who was prone to

illness through his life. i think both real and imagined. there was always mention that he might have been more of a hypochondriac than reality. but at the same token, by 1892 he was exhausted both physically and mentally. in fact, the campaign of 1892 was looming. there was some talk of him being nominated for president. he really was not up to it. he bowed out. he gave only one speech during the campaign. it was on behalf of the reelection of harrison. early in 1893, he died at his home in washington. where is he buried? >> he is buried here in augusta. originally buried in washington, as was his wife. the state of maine brought their remains back to augusta. they resign in a beautiful memorial above the cemetery here in augusta. >> how long did weight live

after him? >> until 1903. she lived another ten years. >> we have very little time but we have a local collar. augusta, maine, this is jonathan. >> this question might be answered by you guys, what was the relationship of mr. blaine toward the native population of the state, the native american population. we know there are navy teams in the civil war that had their own regiments in the south. we >> i am going to jump in because our time is really short. good question but short time. >> i'm not sure that i have a quick answer for that. >> is that right? >> any pleased to go for that sort of material available? >> definitely look to meals book to start out with and also the state library, very good reference. >> i would like to close, we have just a minute left and ask

you the question. what was the legacy, what is the importance to america today of james blain, having been a politician here. i think his influences secretary of state is very important, it's a great legacy. his desire to build some type of cohesion between the north american and south american in central american states. >> i think there is that and also if you look back at his long career in public life, he is one of the key builders of the republican party in the 19th century. he's there at the beginning in 1854. he is still there almost 40 years later, as probably their most powerful and most identifiable figure. >> -- is that right? >> correct. >> the congressional democrat, the state legislator is all republican.

>> we are out of time, i want to thank never people as we are closing. we would like to think the governors hosting us at the governor's mansion tonight. had the director of the blame house here and the staff has been fabulous. we have been setting up over the last few days and we really do take over the place and they have been wonderful. the main historic research commission, thank you for your help. and our cable affiliate here, time warner cable of augusta for all of their help and support of bringing c-span to this community. we will close the program by giving you that campaign memorabilia and particularly listening to a group called the independent silver band as the saying, in 1884, 80 logan and's blaine victory song. ♪ ♪ next on american history

tv, a discussion about the complicated and controversial building of a memorial dedicated towards james garfield on the u.s. capital grounds. we will hear from matthew gilmore, who edits a history block from washington d.c.. >> those of you in the community probably know math by name if not in person. in among other things he runs a block work press blog, he is also an author of the column of the toddler. again, if you worked in d.c. history, you've probably heard of matt, the journal that he has put out. anything history in d.c. --