museums. all weekend, every weekend on c-span3. up next on american history tv -- trail of tears association president jack baker talks about the forced relocation of native americans in the early 19th century. mr. baker, a member of the cherokee nation, discusses his family's involuntary move to oklahoma. this talk is part of an all-day conference, co-host eed by the virginia history and culture, and preservation virginia. and it now gives me great pleasure to introduce jack baker. a former member of the tribal council of the cherokee nation where he served for 11 years representing the cherokee citizens living outside of the cherokee nation. he's the national president of the trail of tears association.

he's also the current president of the oklahoma historical society and serves on a number of other boards. he has done extensive research -- cherokee research for more than 50 years and authored various articles and edited various books on cherokee history. i can say he continued his research even yesterday at the library of virginia. so it gives me pleasure to invite jack baker. [ applause ] >> thanks, elizabeth. it's an honor to be part of the symposium, but i come before you as a citizens of the united

states and also a citizen of the cherokee nation. i'm an eighth generation oklahoman. because of the trail of tears. at the time of the forced removal of cherokees on farms and even large plantations, and as lindsey pointed out, our constitution was adopted in 1827. patterned after the united states. and with the invention of the syllabry, almost every family of the cherokee nation had at least one literate member. and it compares with the high literacy rate of the state

surrounding the cherokee nation. so with publication of 1828 of our newspaper, the cherokees became well informed on the issues of removal. by 1819, our people had ceded 90% of our original lands. and lindsay pointed it out on the map also. so by the time of removal, the little dark area at the bottom is all that was left. so these remaining lands we sought to keep what our white neighbors sought to have them removed. the u.s. supreme court in its 1832 decision, case of wooster versus georgia, recognized the sovereignty of the cherokee nation. yet even this did not save us from the treaty signed by a handful of cherokees.

with major rich as one of the principal leaders. the signers had no authorities to speak for the cherokee nation. yet congress ratified this treaty on may 18th, 1836, by only a single vote. and it was signed by president andrew jackson on may 23rd. the cherokees were given two years from that date to move. our principal chief and tribal council continued in their efforts to oppose removal, but to no avail. in late may of 1838, general winfield scott and his troops began to round up our people. removal force had been constructed throughout the cherokee nation as places to contemporary contain the cherokees as they were gathered up for removal. several of these forces had been constructed a couple of years before during the creek removal.

several hundred creeks had fled into the cherokee nation to avoid removal and soldiers had gone throughout the cherokee nation in an attempt to find them. so sometimes it's an attempt to. so they sometimes question as whether or not the charities did not go ahead and were removed or whether they were aware of what was being instructed. reverend steven foreman was a half blood cherokee, who had been educated in the mission schools in the cherokee nation, and later at princeton wrote the following letter to the board in boston. it says very dear sir, from the day to my of my letter, shall see that i'm still the cherokee

nations ease and still in the neighborhood of the creek commission how much longer should we be permitted to remain here on our own lands, to enjoy our rights and villages, i don't know. from the present aspect of affairs we should very soon be without house and home. indeed ever since the 23rd of may, we have been looking almost daily for the soldiers to come and turn us out of our houses. they have already warned us to make arrangements and come into the camps before we were forced to do so, but i have stated distinctly to the officers at headquarters when i thought of this so-called treaty and what course i intend to pursue in the event that no new treaty was made. i see no reasons yet why i should change my mind. my determination and the

determination of the large majority of the cherokee's nation is never to recognize this fraudulent instrument as a treaty. nor remove under it until we are forced to do so at the point of a ban at. it may seem unwise and hazardous to the framers of this instrument that we should pursue such a force or course rather, but i am satisfied is the only one we can pursue with a clear conscience. reverend daniel buck trick who had been with the chair case for over 20 years wrote this journal on saturday may 26th. in georgia were supposed to be around 8000 cherokee's. these in general were taken just as they were found by the soldiers, without permission to stop for friends or property. as the soldiers approach a house, two children fled enough

right to the woods. the woman pleaded for them to seek them or wait for them to come in, to give the assurance that they would follow in company. all their trees are in rain and it wasn't after that she would get permission from foreigner her friends to get go back after her lost children. a man death and attempted to make his escape and because he did not hear or obey the command of his pursuers was shot dead on the spot. women exit from their families for other persons this were seized, and were not allowed to return. also people being dragged from their homes were dragged up by strangers. cattle, horses, hogs household

furniture clothing and money were taken not much was left. and whatever was left around. should seize property whatever they can put their hands on. some friends who could speak for themselves instead insisted afterwards and getting some part of the lost goods -- rendered homeless houseless and penniless. and exposed to captivity. a few months later, the wife of dr. elijah butler spoke to a childhood friend in massachusetts. it was a missionary i was happy to see that lindsay mentioned him. because, as soon as --

part of the letter written from tennessee states, arrived among the cherokee's and began impeaching and bring heard -- which is a mission statement just western georgia. here i have not lived a year before my husband was shut up in prison by the authorities of georgia for refusing to take an oath to support their ventures against the cherokee or to leave his situation or his station, which was in the charter limits of that state after labor-ing a year and a half in the penitentiary, he

returned to this missionary monkey charities. but in a little more of a year, the same law which had sent him to prison was the means to break up our mission statement. we did have an invitation from the charities, and the method of taking the cherokee's prisoner or various. she goes on to state, it was common for a party of soldiers with a wagon attached to the train to be sent to a certain neighborhood. out arriving at a house, the inmates were ordered to march. sometimes there are a lot to take some light articles to be conveyed in the wagon, but many times they were not suffered to carry long enough to take a change of clothes with them. if their horses right hand, they're often permitted to ride

them. but as often as not, they were driven on foot at the point of the bayonet. if parents cannot convey their children on horses or on their own backs, their order to get into the wagon. in if there was any reluctance that was shown by them, they were thrown in by the soldiers and driven over the rough road with such speed, that in some instances they had been severely injured. and perhaps they were driven with more haste from their dwellings on account of their frequent rumor of native hostilities. a fear of this, and suspicion that the cherokee is with secrete themselves had led the soldiers to gather some neighborhoods in the night. to accomplish this, they would enter a cherokee dwelling and the families in the midst of their slumber's would be aroused for their march.

here would be grouped together the aged, infirm, middle aged, youth and children of all sizes together the people in such aced, whether by night or by day, has been the occasion of much distress and the loss of property. husbands and wives, parents and children have been separated and carried off to different camps where they knew nothing of each other for weeks or months. so they were first taken to the 31 stockades constructed throughout the cherokee nation, and the conditions of the stockades or deplorable. people have no shelter, only a few blankets that people were able to grab as they're being forced from their homes, and inadequate food. the stockades were referred to as concentration camps, it may have been the first time that this term was used, from these

holding stockades, the cherokee were taken to 11 internment camps. ten of these were in tennessee and the remaining one was in alabama. on may 31st, -- tells one groove being taken to the internment camp. he states. astoundingly, a little bit before sunset, a company of about 200 cherokee's were driven into our lane. the day had been raining, and of course, all men and women in children were dripping wet. with no change of clothing and scarcely a blanket fit to cover them. some of the women were taken from their houses, had on their core stress. this of course was the amount of their clothing for a journey of about 100 miles. as soon as permission was obtained from the officers, we opened every door to these poor

sufferers. mothers brought their dear little babes to our fire and stripped off their only coverings to dry. or how heart rendering was the small ones that suffered, their little lips blue and trembling with cold. yet a smile with gratitude for this kind of reception. so i would like to tell you how the removal affected my fourth great grandfather, james hair. family tradition states that is mother-in-law, lindsay rapidly gave birth to a baby girl right after removal or after the roundup started. and while being driven to one of the internment camps, she became too weak to go any further and refused to cross the stream. she was stabbed by one of the soldiers and died soon after.

he recorded in his journal are identical story. he states we also learned the last company that was taken over the river, the woman in the pains of childbirth stood in walked as long as possible, and then fell in the base of the river. the soldier stabbed her with his bayonet which together with other pain soon caused her death. james hair had married her daughter only a few months before, and lindsey's other five children accompanied james and his wife on the force removal and was reared by them. so in mid june, three group of about 800 each were started west from -- the landing to check into

tennessee. to our water around marx and ben and the other crossed on the road. of that group only 635 arrived in the west, with 146 deaths and two births being reported. there was a severe drought at the time with extreme heat. james harris mother katie north along with her father, was in this group. her father william north was a white man. who had magnetic cherokee win in about 60 years before. a couple months before he had been described as being upwards of 100 years and completely blind for the last 25 years. there is no record of his arriving in the west, however in a series of interviews conducted in the chat a new guy area around 1900, white men named north married and indian in later became blind.

he heard that they threw him in the river and drawn them on the way west because he was so much trouble. because of the high casualties of these first groups, permission was given to the later removal of the other groups until fall where it will be cooler. also the cherokee leaders petitioned general scott they would be allowed for their own removal. permission was granted. james hares father, harry khan read was a leader of the first attachment to leave that fall. however, he soon became too ill to continue and had to relinquish the position. james hares sister nancy the wife of ash hopper, traveled in richard taylor's detachment. a road in his journal on saturday, december 1st 1838.

on thursday, to the children, one a daughter of our dear sister asked shopper, were called into eternity. james their losses grandfather, is wife's mother and his niece. by this time, the extreme heat of summer and given a way to unseasonably cold winter. reverend butrick further wrote, on december 26, they it was said that it detachment was sent out to mississippi stop by floating ice. mr. hildebrandt's detachment stopped by the same means that the ohio river. december 27, we proceeded with the detachment about six miles, where we camped for the week. there was a slow increase of three or four inches, and the weather was excessively cold. lucy butler in the same letters

i mentioned earlier mentioned earlier states, my husband has preached among the cherokees and attended on them as physician since they were first taken. last summer, by their request, he was appointed to physician by general scott in a camp about eight miles from our station, and after arrangements were made for the cherokees to remove themselves he was appointed by mr. us to serve as physician in a company on the way to the west. the last letter i had from him was mailed at john's bergh illinois on the 19th of november about 20 miles this side of the mississippi. it did not accomplish quite half of their journey at this time. they had considerable sickness. but 27 of their number labored between that police and the one where the commence their

journey. during this time, george shanks, one of the conductors of the attachment and a member of the church sent the following letter to north carolina. johnson county illinois 13th of january 1839. my dear friend and brother, we left the church key nation east, the land of our nativity on the first day last november. and took up the line of our march to the line west, and through the mercedes of an all-wise providence who is ever ready to assist the oppressed, and was years ever opened to their cries have arrived thus far to our journey to the west. the following winter as been very cold, and we have necessarily suffered a great deal from exposure from cold and fatigue. our people, a great many of them that were very poor and very destitute of clothing, and

at the means to render themselves comfortable. we have done all in our power to restitution and remedied the destitute situation in contraband very much to their comfort by supplying them so far as we could with clothing, blankets and shoes. but still, we have suffered a great deal with sickness and of losses on the 31st of october, last about 35. a great proportion worthy aged and children. our numbers are probably over 1100, and two large a train to attend two and to watch over required a great deal of karen industry, and caused disagreed inside of mind. and so much responsibility adds to the fatigue of traveling, brought upon meeting a spell of sickness from which i thought i

could not recover. but through the versus event on all white providence, i have a good deal recovered my health. we are now about 20 miles west of the mississippi river which we cannot cross because of the ice. we have not been traveling on account of them being out of us to attachments the charities who must cross before we must cross. mississippi was full of large quantities of floating ice, which at times it is impossible. let's tell, they keep crossing. in hopes we get over in one or two weeks. we'll start in the morning again in our journey west. the roads are all in very bad order, as the ground was frozen and there it has been for the past ten days a general thaw, not even any frost. together with a good deal of wet, which will probably make the roads impassable.

we must necessarily calculate on suffering a great deal from hardship in exposure before we reach our homes in the far west. we look to the almighty for strength and protection, to enable us to reach the place that destination. i said we are hardly halfway. until look forward on the determination of our journey, and our toils we can hope for the best. respectfully, george shakes. so principal chief john ross left last, after he had seen all of the other cherokee's on their way west. he traveled by steamboat with a small group of cherokee's, in order to take those who had been too ill to leave with the regular detachments. and while the rest of the

detachments we're waiting to cross the mississippi river, he made for two camps. and he wrote the following account. on my arrival with the later detachment, i received letters from various persons on the first houses in nashville informing me that it was understood that mean the land detachments had been stopped at the mississippi river by ice. and for various reasons it would be most advised boat to transport the immigrants from that point by water. therefore they sent me proposals for finishing the steam boats for that purpose. in ohio, i also received letters from mr. thomas and clark, junior, one of my principal agents, and other agents all urging me and most pressing terms to visit the detachment still detained at or near willis ferry in the mississippi river. as my presence among the people were indispensably necessary to

deter them from pursuing their journey through missouri, on roads represented to be very bad it would be impossible to procure supplies. these reports were suspected to have been put in circulation with the view of creating alarms among the people, that they might insist on taking water at that point. and note that these rumors were started by the first families of nashville, which i am sure you remember, is the home of andrew jackson, so these are his cronies, many of whom have made a great deal of money on the earlier removals of the earlier tribes, so they are seeking to profit more from the cherokee removal. so it was also suggested in might be deemed advisable to

transfer some of the sick to the water detachment. i therefore deemed it my duty to report to them without hesitation. at first i determined the propriety of running the will learns ferry to bring as much as the sick by water. but the captain of the boat advise against it for reasons neither himself or the pilot knew anything of the navigation of that part of the mississippi river. so it was pat the passage of the boat and leaving he was underlined, my sick family, with the other immigrants to await my return. what should be as speedily as possible. about 12:00 that night, i was landed at willard's ferry where i met with willard clark and my brother louis and others from whom i assertation that a detachment at cross the river

and had been encamped a short distance off. george shakes, peter hilla brand and richard taylor's detachment had not yet crossed clearing readiness for the purpose. i directed it to be disdainful made known that no change could be or will be made from completing the journey by land and that it was evident these alarming tails were in great measure magnified for a fact. whatever true the scar city and high prices of supplies, immediately my troops could become about supplies should be procured cost what they would if they were to be had at all in the reach of the travel. preparations would be made for taking us up the line of march the next morning, which was done accordingly. and i might add that while the

turkeys were in charge of their own removal, there was never any complaints of lack of food on the way. ross goes on to say that their boats could not be prevailed upon to stop and take me on board, after that sly detained two or three days, i determined not to wait any longer for passage by water, and i procured a horse and road down in days and was accompanied by my brother. the next morning on my return we slipped. cable away from that time, underlining's virus, my children became motherless, and the remains of mrs. ras were left in a strange land. his wife died in little rock arkansas, and she was buried in little rock. three of the 12 attachments arrived in the cherokee nation during january. they crossed the mississippi

before the i stop the other detachments. the others arrived in february in march. it was often been estimated that as many as 4000 of the 16,000 turkeys died as a result of the fourth removal. there appears to have been about 1200 deaths during the actual removal, however there were many additional deaths immediately following removal their reduce the population of the cherokee nation by at least another 1600 people. there were close to 3000 deaths caused by the removal. in may of 1825, the cherokee set passed an act imposing a death penalty on anyone who was proposed to sell in exchange for their lines. after the arrival in the present jerky nation, a group of charities met secretly and sentence many members of the

treaty party to death according to the law. major rich along with his son john rich, and his son were all executed at various places on june 22nd of 1839. one of the executioners major rich was james hair. so the trail of tears is an example of what can happen when prejudice combines with greed. it was a directly from a court decision -- we is cherokee's face a great -- we merely start to reestablish our nation and were able to adapt to our new lands, and prosper in them. after lunch will talk about the

rebuilding of our nation where we are today. this ability of our people to survive and adapt is a true story of the trail of tears, and how we wish it to be remembered. thank you. [applause] so are there any questions? >> like that you shared with us that very tragic story. my name is steven atkinson chief of an indian tribe. it eliminates the bloodthirsty, land grabbing invaders that set forth again jamestown may 14th and 16 oh seven. less than three years later, lord delaware ordered the dissemination of the tribe, and by 16 99 nine out of ten at the

virginia woodland indians had perished. so the story you told, really resonates with me because forced removal for the chickahominy and other indians occurred in 1646, and the department of education across the states had skillfully, artfully left out that history, so we are surrounded by a culture that is largely ignorant of the tragedies that occurred among the indigenous people, beginning may 14, 1607. >> thank you. [applause] >> we had the same pound with our oklahoma textbooks when i was growing up there was virtually nothing about indian tribes. first you started with the land runs of our lands in 1889.

they've improved somewhat but not to the degree that they should. >> what is the status of those cherokee that did not do the because of various reasons either they married a white person and did not do the trail of tears manager standing is, they are not on the cherokee register and there is no way those people could be on the cherokee register because they did not do the trail of tears? >> it was mentioned earlier by lindsey in the one question about citizenship, of course as lindsay mentioned the 1835 treaty provided that if a person was a bowl that that he could apply and become a citizen of the state, and remain in the nation or remain in georgia where some of the other states. i think for about 150 in

georgia that were elected to do this. but as lindsay also mentioned, they give up their citizenship of the tribe to become citizens of the u.s.. while they are of turkey dissent, they are not eligible for citizenship in the cherokee nation because of that. it is our role is based on residency of the citizens of 1902. i have german and sisters, so i have some german descent. but i certainly am not going back to germany and declared that i'm a german citizen. it is basically the same thing. >> thank you. i have a question regarding the

native americans having plantations you mention. and also, where their united states laws regarding native americans owning or having in sleeved africans are african americans. also were there enslaved african americans who moved along with you during the migration to the north and west? >> there were a few cherokee's who did own african american slaves during this period. one of the larger plantations for the most part ship to make sure their slaves which unfortunately they considered valuable property, they make sure that they made it to the cherokee nation west. there are few cherokee's that owns maybe one or two african americans.

and they accompanied them on the trail. and in one of the journals, when he was accompanied in the richard taylor detachment, he describes at one point, where he hired an african american lady from the owner to do some washing for him and his wife. we recognize that there are many african americans on the removal the five tribes. but unfortunately there's not a lot of documentation or stories with them. we would like to include more of those stories as we find them. thank you. >> this week we're looking back to this date in history.

>> little john junior who was three years old this day responds to a westberg request from his mother. as that cortez crosses the bridge over the pathology river, there is a view to the memorial building who's dedicated to abraham lincoln. now the last goodbye to john f. kennedy. the fact a flag that had

covered the casket is folded. it is passed from hand to hand by the honor guard. it is received by the widow. mrs. kennedy ignites an eternal flame at the head of her husband's grave. john fitzgerald kennedy reaches the end of his journey. those who loved leave him at the green elves of parliament cemetery. >> follow us on social media at c-span history for more on this day in history clips and posts.

>> you're watching american history tv. all weekend every weekend on c-span 3. to join the conversation like us on facebook at c-span history. >> up next university of richmond professor discusses how the expansion of slavery and westward migration displaced native americans throughout the antebellum period, moving them further and further from their ancestral lands. this talk is part of john marshall, the supreme court and the trail of tears, an all-day conference cohosted by the virginia museum of it's written culture. and preservation virginia. >> if you want more information about the trail of tears, there is a national association and partnership with the national parks service, and local communities are telling the story. google national trail of tears association and it will