they have been romanticized in popular culture. in 50 minutes, a panel discussion on the role of african-american in women's history. and in two hours in two hours and 10 minutes, a top about a book, a reminiscence. jeffrey: hi, i am speaking to you from the franklin d roosevelt president library and museum. i want to welcome you to another one of our talks today. today we are going to be talking about hobos and hoovervilles. it is our pleasure to present these programs for you. hobos and hoovervilles ---talk

about them. -- let's talk about them. a lot of people throw around opens and -- a lot of people throw around the terms hobos. it goes back to the great depression. when we learn about the great depression in school, we learn the great depression occurred october 29, 1929 when the stock market crashed. that is not really accurate. certainly that is when most people -- it got everett's attention that the great depression was underway, but it began for farmers almost 10 years earlier. with or planting of crops in the midwest and southwest, the farmers were hitting hard times with the drought conditions that were occurring. 50% of the population were farmers at that time and so 50%

of your population have that kind of economic problem, if you have an impact on the rest of your economy. so, yes, we can point to october 29, 1929 as an indicator of the great depression, but it had been going on for longer than that. we also talk about the great depression as if it was an economic problem and it was. the stock it crashed, people were losing their jobs and homes. it was not just an economic problem with 25% unemployment and banks closing each day, but it was the social problem as well. families tended to split up. if you had a 16, 17, 18-year-old boy at home, you might ask him to the house because there simply wasn't enough money to feed him and baby brother and sister. if you had a grandma or grandpa

living on their own, they might move in with you, simply because you can pool resources and it would work better. so the family dynamic changed. sometimes the dads would go off looking for work and it was left to mom to hold the family unit together. it was a social problem as well and it was also an emotional problem. people lost their jobs and when you lose your job, you lose your paycheck and there is an economic impact. but you also lose an important part of your identity and who you are. we identify ourselves by our job, i may banker, bus driver teacher, whatever it is, so if you lose that occupation, you lose a big part of who you are and how you define yourself. the great depression was a terrible, terrible time. sometimes people would leave

their children at post offices because they couldn't feed them. that is how terrible things were. combining this idea of it being an economic problem, social problem, and emotional problem usually better understanding of how much of an impact the great depression had on people. and in fact when the depression was over, some of those feelings , emotions, actions that people took stayed with them the rest of their lives. that is how much of an impact it had. let's talk about a group of people that originated in this time period or are said to have originated, and that would be hobos. the idea of a hobo goes back probably to after the american civil war. there were folks that traveled around and as such, but the heyday of the hobo really was in the 1930's.

nobody really knows where the name hobo originated. some said it came from the end of the civil where -- civil war, where people so they were homebound, oval -- hobo. some said it was from my group workers that would carry around a hoe. they were going door to door with their hoe looking for work and a farmer would hire them. other said it was just a greeting. nobody really knows. if you can come up with something that sounds legitimate , it will be as legitimate as any other origin with the name of hobo. the idea of a hobo is somewhat romanticized as well. we think of the hobo very often

as out there on the open road, making its way around and calling his own shots. there was some truth to that. the 1930's was the heyday of the hobo and there may have been as many as 20 billion -- 20 million hobos going around looking for work. they were transient and it was hard to try them down. before we go farther, let's define what a hobo is. there is a difference between a hobo, a tramp, and a bum, although many used these interchangeably. a hobo was a migratory laborer. so basically a hobo with someone looking for work, going from place to place to place looking for work, hopefully long term work, but if not they would take what they could get.

sometimes it was a job that would last a two weeks if they were aching fruit or sometimes a project that would last only a day or two, raking leaves, -- if they were picking fruit or sometimes a project would last a day or two, raking leaves. it was important to the hobo to put in a full day work for compensation -- a full days work for compensation. sometimes it was money. sometimes it was a warm, safe place to sleep. sometimes it was a meal or two. it depended on what the person offering the job had to give in exchange for the job. so i hobo was someone willing to work and wanting to work and looking for work and moving around doing that. a tramp was more of a traveler. a tramp would go from place to place and work if they had to,

but they would rather not. they would rather just go from place to place looking for adventure and excitement and such. probably the most famous one was charlie chaplin personification of the little tramp. a tramp was 70 would work if they had people wasn't necessarily looking to do that. if they could get a freebie and a handout, they would be happy to do that just as well. and then we have the bums. and they are the lower level of this hierarchy. a bomb was someone who didn't want to work. a bomb was -- a bum was some who didn't want to work. a bum likely had alcohol problems and they were known from -- for getting drunk and causing problems. this was a problem for hobos because if people were mixing up

hobos, tramps, and bums, if somebody went for work and they were thought to be a tramp, they would be less likely to employ them. and they were looking for hobos. the popular character of freddie the freeloader -- he was a bum, and you can see that reflected in his actions as a character. why do people become hobos? it was out of economic necessity. they were searching for work and searching for food and shelter. sometimes they would get the stuff and then be able to have a little extra and sent it home. other times they were able to maintain their own existence as they went along. the thing about that is, if you are able to maintain your own existence, maybe you are not a burden to your family.

economic necessity is the number one reason. there are also some who became hobos for the freedom to be on the open road, come and go as you want, be your own boss. that is sort of the romanticized version we have of hobos over the course of time. the third reason people became hobos is for escape. sometimes they were trying to escape from the law. sometimes they were trying to escape from abuse and sometimes from lack of opportunity, which goes back to this idea of economic necessity. lots of reasons why people left, but primarily they were looking for a better life in terms of economic ability. the hobo life is romantic in culture, but it was anything but romantic in real life. it was an incredibly hard life to live.

you were traveling around constantly or exposed out to the elements. you are hopping on a freight train that might be moving at five or 10 miles an hour. very dangerous, the opportunity to lose life and limb when you are jumping on or off a giant piece of machinery. the hobos would ride on these cars, untrained cars going from city to city, town to town, and that is basically how most of them traveled. writing freight trains -- riding freight trains was dangerous. sometimes you are exposed to sun, rain, snow, wind, and you were on a flat car and things shifted and changed. if you want careful you could be thrown off of that.

you are also very vulnerable and visible to what were called goals -- bulls. they were the railroad police and they tended to be brutal to enforce jobs to protect railroad property. if you were a hobo traveling on that train, you were trespassing. they felt very within their rights to beat you up, you, sometimes shoot you on site or throw you off the moving train. the fact that i am throwing you off is your fault for being here and not my fault for throwing you off. flat cars reese -- exposed you to many things. sometimes you might travel by a boxcar which provided you protection from the elements and you could be inside and sleep without having to worry about falling off and less visible to

the bulls. but if you got locked in the car, the chances for starvation were very good. you may be out in the string sun in the exposed box without -- in the blistering sun without error. you areb exposed toull -- you are exposed to bulls and underpasses. writing the rail meant writing on a car one way or another. -- riding the rails meant ri ding on a car one way or another. you couldn't ride between the cars because couplings would go back and forth.

there was always give to those and that was a dangerous place. you tried to get on one of these things and took your chances with a flat car, boxcar, however it was. there were also folks who were riding the rods. they were large steel rods underneath the train and -- in a cross-section to give torque to the car. they were underneath between the sets of wheels and they were easy to get onto when the train was stopped. if the train was in a yard, you can easily get on a rod. the rods were incredibly dangerous, because you are basically traveling under a train hanging onto steel rods inches from the track as the

train was moving along. if you fell asleep and let go, you would be killed. the bulls were out to get you. they have little sympathy. their job was to protect the railroad property. they had very little sympathy for hobos moving through and would toss them from the train. there were also unsavory hobos. there were people out there riding the rails who were looking to take advantage of people. that was not a predominant number of hobos, most were looking for work and trying to work their way through. we will talk about the hobo code in a minute during you would always and can tell -- encounter someone wanted to rob or steal or abuse you. you had to be careful who you came in contact with while you were out there riding the rails.

there were unsavory people who looked down upon you. they would say you are just a hobo and they didn't value you where they mistook you for a bum . they felt somehow justified in the ability to abuse you or treat you as less than who you are. a lot of times people will say to me, let's say i wanted to be a hobo -- what what i need? you would need economic necessity, access to a train to move from place to place, and you would also have two have a certain amount of equipment to bring with you. let's talk about how you find the trains. the trains usually there would be a train yard and a mile or so out side the train yard is where

the hobos would congregate. they would not go into the yard, because the nbulls -- because the bulls were there. you want a place where you could safely hop on. outside the train yards would be places called hobo jungles. they would be basically villages or camps the hobos would congregate in and wait for the trains to come in and out. what kind of equipment do you need? basically it would come down to two things. one would be if you were lucky enough to have a bedroll. it would simply be a blanket and maybe your lucky enough to have something like a pillow which you would just use an extra set of clothes wrapped up as a pillow. you would a bedroll and tidy it -- and tie it with a piece of rope and you would tie it around

your back. you can use that as a link it, it -- as a blanket or a cozy place to sleep on the boxcar. it was really important. the other thing was important -- thing that was important was the stick and was a symbol of what a hobo would have. there is quite a bit to this. because you have a small bundle and you are mostly traveling with a bedroll and a bundle of stop -- stuff because you are hopping on and off of trains and you can't travel with a bunch of stuff. you have to travel light. you generally tie yourself up in a bundle like this and would have a stick and what this allowed you to do was with very little pressure, you could have balance to this depending on the length of the stick.

if you are walking long distances or between trains and you're off of the train walking into the village, this was a good way to carry bundles without tiring yourself down. you could also use it as a walking stick, walking long distances. you can use it as a walking stick. you could also use it as a weapon or potential weapon if you come across an unsavory person. you could also use it as an opportunity to pull onto a train or pull somebody onto a train as a device helping you get on that way. the stick had a lot of utility. sometimes at the end you have a key tide on with a piece of twine or leather. the idea of the key was that you are a hobo. you had a home that you were able to make a living in your hometown.

a lot of hobos would have the key to the front door and would carry this with them as a symbol and a reminder that someday i'm going back home and someday i'm going back to where i came from. this is not -- this is a temporary thing. the key was important to remind them of that. let's look at what you might find in here in the bundle. they would tie this up in aker chief -- in a kerchief or a piece of clothing. in here you will find some items. you might find something that looks like this. this was a way for them to get water. it is nothing more than a can with a string tied to it and pierced through and you would use this to get water. if you're going to go to a pond or a stream or a lake, you tried not to get wet.

once you got wet, especially in fall or early spring, you would stay wet. the only way to try out was through natural drying out, which in the meantime will leave you cold. to keep your feet from getting wet and sleeves from getting wet, you would drop this into the stream into the water in pull it up. then you had access to some water. you always had something like this with you, because you didn't want to dehydrate along the way. you also might have some matches , because you are going to light a fire when you get to the hobo village, to the jungle. to keep warm and half-light and maybe to cook some food. a way to start a fire was a good thing to have. you also might carry with you a deck of cards. the cards would be used for

recreational purposes. you wouldn't gamble with these, because first of all you don't have a lot to gamble with and the last thing you want to do is get on the wrong side of somebody when you are out there on your own and in the wild. you would use these cards to play cards with other oboes or solitary with yourself -- solitaire with yourself to pass the lonely hours waiting for work to come by. you also might have a piece of fruit. if you were working for someone and you are paid with food, you would very rarely eat the food all at once because you never knew where your next meal was coming from. if someone paid you with food, you would eat a little and save a little along the way. this came in handy at the hobo jungle, because the hobo jungle each night would host a stew. he would live there and then during the day you would find

work, hopefully, and then you would come back and create this mulligans to. part of -- mulligan stew. you had access to the stew if you contributed to these two -- contributed to the stew. if you went out one day and didn't have anything they would let you eat one day and maybe two days but if you want within two days, chances are you would be considered to be a bum. maybe he wouldn't put a pair in the stew, but you might slice this up and that she wouldn't put a pear in the stew, but you might slice it up and share it. -- maybe you wouldn't put a pe ina the stew, but your.

you also might carry a bible with you, and the bible was carried by hobos in part for what it was intended to do was to give you aspiration and positive thoughts and things. you might use it for inspiration and you might use it as a bit of a political prop. if you went to look for work and you were a bible reader and a man of the word, they would be more likely feeling good about hiring you to do a job. you also might carry a piece of coal. you might think why would i carry coal? the coal would be carried because the idea was that coal was readily assessable. the trains were running on coal. with this cold you could make

markings. and that was where another part of the hobo code came. you can scratch etchings on the side of a barn, and we will talk more about that in a minute or two. you also would carry a pocket knife. this tool was indispensable, because it allowed you a blade that you could open cans with. it allowed you protection and you could cut up your pear and share it with other hobos. you could whittle time away by literally whittling. you could make markings in fence posts which we will talk about in a moment or two. it offered you protection. if anyone messed with you, you had a blade you can fend them off with. the other thing hobos would very often carry would be a can of beans. beans where the sort of go to meals for hobos.

that was because they were small, they fit into the bundle, you can open the can't with your knife, bend over the lid and you would have a handle to put over your fire and you got yourself a meal. the can of beans always had no more than 239 beans per can. the reason it only had 239 was because if you went to one more it would be too farrt. you would also have -- with you that would keep you warm at night or also a pick me up. you also would use it as a painkiller. if you had to take a splitter out or something like that. this was not a huge thing for hobos, because hobos were not generally drunks. they were looking to work and willing to work. you do not want to show up at a

potential job smelling like liquor. so you would use this probably back in the jungle just as a nightcap for yourself to have some fun through the course of the day. you put all this stuff together and you can go from place to place, town to town, and you have a lot of things you need in order to survive. you need economic necessity, need a train, and you need this hobo equipment. i mentioned the hobo code. there were two types. one was an ethical code, and this speaks to the fact that these hobos were people going for work. the hobo ethical code consisted of always doing a full days work for a full days pay, whatever that might be. if you say you are going to sweep out the barn, you sweep of the barn like nobody's business and do the best job you can.

do this for two reasons. number one, that will put you in good stead with whoever asked you to sweep out the barn and you might get an handout. the other thing is, these hobos understood there were many of them out there. they had villages in jungles and as they traveled across the country, there were literally 2 million of these folks, and the understood they needed to do a good job wherever they were, because after they left, and another hobo would come through. if you cheated someone and if you took advantage of someone, the next hobo who came along would have a harder time. you always did the best job you could for what it was you were getting your handout for. when there was no employment available, you would just sort of not hanging around town looking like a bum and making a nuisance of yourself. when you were in the jungle

community, you always pitched in. you wanted to pull your own weight and be a valuable member of that society. when you were on the train as much as possible, you acted like a member of the cruise. the bulls were there to get you off of the train and off of the property of the train company. the cruise were up -- crews were often traveling for less -- with less crew members. they would appreciate the extra helping hand and they might step in for you when the bulls were trying to get you off the train or abusing you along the way. you always helped aloe hobos, because they were people just like you that were in need, that were looking for a way to make a

living, looking for a way to get home. also always tried to keep yourself as clean as possible. the hobos referred to this as boiling up. every chance you got you would boil yourself up, which meant heat up water and clean yourself up so you look presentable, that you didn't look like a bum and looked like some of you might be employable. the basic -- of the hubble code was to be kind. you are -- of the hobo code was to be kind. you are out there looking for work and you get the work done and get handout. my grandmother said that during the great depression her mother ran a boardinghouse outside of new york. hobos were constantly coming to the back door looking for work to do. my great-grandmother might give

them the opportunity to cut some wood in exchange for a sandwich or beat the rugs in exchange for sleeping in the carport for the barn that particular night. looking for work, looking for something in exchange. that was the hobo code of ethics. there was also another type of hobo code. what they would do is develop their own special way of communicating with each other and would leave messages for each other as they travel through town. the next hobo who came through could look for the messages, the symbols, and they would know something about the town. you are traveling on trains and going to towns where you don't know anyone and so if you can come in and get advice left by a hobo who had been there before, that was very, very useful to

you. they created this code and it was basically made up of symbols. this symbol looking like a banana with a + on the end meant dishonest man. if this was etched in outside sidewalk or scratched into a fence post with a knife, you knew you were likely to be given a job working with this person, but you might not get the payoff. response is, go over and rake up the leaves and that will be rate and i will give you a sandwich on your way, but get the leaves done first. if you saw this symbol, you would want to make sure you have the sandwich first because tenses -- chances are this dishonest man wouldn't pay you. if you saw this it was a man with a gun. this meant good water. if you saw this carved in a tree next to a stream, you knew that was good water and you can use

your cup to get water from there. this meant they let you sleep in the barn. if you saw this by a farm or a work shed, they would let you sleep in the barn if you saw this symbol. this was a symbol for good for a handout. i have a feeling this symbol was probably carved near my great-grandmother's boarding home, because she was always looking for folks to help her out with work and they were always coming from the jungle to do that. good for a handout for this one here. i want to show you one that is relatively -- maybe more familiar to you. this is one that you may have seen. this was popular in popular culture now.

and this is kindhearted lady. this may be another symbol that was near my grandma's boardinghouse. now you'll see this in some of the magazines you send away for as a kitchen decoration or such. so if you think your mom or a grandma is a kindhearted lady, you might buy this symbol. it is kind of like a cat with two paws in the back and ears. this meant the person was wealthy. if you were going to do some work for this guy, chances are you will be paid in money, not food for a place to stay or sleep or this was an important thing to look out for as well. that is the hobo code and there were hundreds of symbols, each area had its own dialect as to what the codes might mean. generally speaking, hobos were looking for work. you found them in the south part

of the country and western part of the country, because the weather was better there and you would find yourself without a place to live, you want to be in a warmer climate. who were some notable hobos? i have a list of folks who started off as hobos. jack dempsey was a hobo. woody guthrie spent time as a hobo. jack caro at, no surprise there -- jack caro mark -- car whack - - jack carowak spent time as a hobo. it very -- those were some folks, look at the work, get back on their feet, and of the go. that is a little bit about the hobo culture fascinating time in american history and a

fascinating group of people. there are still some out there, if you ever get an opportunity to talk to one, you will learn interesting things and how to survive on the road and think on your feet and be resourceful. the second part of our talk is about hoovervilles. it was basically a shantytown. hoover was the president when the great depression struck, and he happened to be the wrong guy in the wrong time at the wrong place and all of these forces joined to create the great depression. hoover happened to be president and was caught off guard. even though he did things he did with programs to alleviate suffering during the great depression, most of these things were too little and too late. so hoover historically has gotten the blame for the great depression.

the term hooverville was coined by the chief of the national meant -- national democratic committee. first appeared in the new york times in the new -- and 1930's to describe shacks that developed outside of chicago. there has always been homelessness grade there still is today, but these hoovervilles were the result of the great depression and i don't want to say popular, but certainly prominent during that time. as people lost, they couldn't afford to pay mortgages if they had lost their jobs and so in cities all across the country, these shantytowns would spring up. i want to share a couple of pictures. here is the picture of a hobo family. here is a mom and dad and two

kids. mom looks embarrassed and doesn't want her face shown. here is a family writing the rail. you can see over here is the bedroom. sometimes entire families would go searching for work as hobos. in terms of hoovervilles, they look something like this. not especially happy looking places. places with shacks, shelters built out of cardboard or 10 or scrap plywood, tarps, anything you could find that would get you out of the elements you would find in these hoovervilles . sometimes people looked down on people who lived in these. it wasn't their fault. they lost their homes, what were they going to do? i want to show you this.

it is a shock that is part of a hooverville. you have four or five people here, and this is christmas time in new york, 1938. this is a hooverville in new york and it is christmas time and look what they have, outside their shack so they didn't pass by the holiday season, they had a christmas tree. his work people who still had feelings and emotions and a tie to some sense of normalcy, they just had no place to live. there was a hooverville in central park that consisted of dozens of shacks, and that was right in central park. there was also a place over by the east river which was called hard lucksville.

there was a hooverville outside of seattle that lasted for 10 years, from 1931 to 19 anyone -- 21941 -- to 1941. it was in response to these audible hooverville -- these multiple hoovervilles. they came in and started to provide shelters and food and clothing and simple medical care and training and education so they could get out of these shacks and into at least some kind of standardized housing and begin to work their way back into proper working society as the jobs were becoming more available. hoovervilles had their own governance. there was a mayor of hooverville that was elected by the

residents. they had their own councils and they were going to pass laws, the councils would do that. they were located primarily in the warmer weather areas, the south and in the west. california had such a problem with hoovervilles, that los angeles had a thing that came to be called the bum blockade. the idea was the l.a. police chief, with the support of the chamber of congress and public officials and the support of the railroad officials and some state agencies, set up roadblocks at 16 major point of entry into southern california for people who had no visible means of support. so if you were coming and

looking for work and had no visible means of support and you didn't have a cousin or uncle that could vouch for you that they would give you a job, we were turned away. this led to a great number of hoovervilles just outside of the stopping points. eventually there began to be public sympathy for these folks, because they were just down on their luck and folks looking for work. as that began to happen, the public tenor changed in this idea of the bum blockade was overturned in the hoovervilles were distributed and they were entered into the transient service for help. hoovervilles also spawned their own type of languages in their own words for things. so if you were sleeping under a hoover blanket, it was thing within a newspaper.

you use this to keep warm they were readily available and you could get at least a little warmth. it is not as cozy as a blanket but it was better than sleeping out in the elements. you might repair your house with some hoover siding, which was nothing more than cardboard. the cardboard would keep the wind out and repelled the rain a little bit. if you had a hole in your shoe, you might repair the hole with close cold -- what was called hoover leather, which was nothing more than cardboard. this would give you some protection between your foot and the actual ground. if you saw a horse and cart being pulled along, that was called a hoover wagon, because people couldn't afford cars and gas. you might hold up -- he might

pull up a worse and cart and be able to move along in your hoover wagon. and at the end of the day, where the hobos would go back to the jungle for mulligan stew, the hoovers would go back to the hoovervilles for watered-down stew. you might put a small piece of ham with ante of water -- ham with plenty of water. that would become your dinner for that night. hoover is due. -- hoover stew. we wanted to give you a taste of what some were going through during the great depression in micro communities, whether at a hoover village or as hobos. hobos have become sort of

romantic over time, the idea of writing -- riding the rails, but it was a hard life. these were two reactions that the difficulty the country found itself in during the great depression. roosevelt's main goal was to create jobs to give people a paycheck and help stimulate the economy and give stability in their life and to them sense of purpose so that people had a purpose to get up in the morning, a place to go, something to do. these were hard times for folks in the 1930's or the great depression lasted for a good long time and the hobo culture continued on into the 1940's and 1950's. in the 1960's it was replaced by a hitchhiker culture. some was based less on economic necessity but more on adventure

or to get away from the authorities or your parents. those folks that found themselves hitchhiking two different places in the 1960's and traced roots back to the hobos of the 1930's. if you would like to learn more about the 1930's, 1940's and the conditions people lived in and things that were going on and programs that the roosevelt administration brought about to help those suffering, please visit us on our website at the roosevelt presidential library or when we open again, come and visit us again at the library. there are a great number of things to learn about and to see and to experience either virtually or by coming on site. i will see you either online or in person very soon. >> you are watching american

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we have grown used to wonders in this century. it is hard to dazzle us, with the space program has been doing just that. we have grown used to the idea of space and perhaps we forget that we have only just begun. we are so pioneers. the members of the challenger crew were pioneers. >> follow us on social media for more this day in history clips and posts. >> with a biden administration leading the response to the pandemic, follow the latest at c-span.org/coronavirus. search c-span's coverage of news conferences as well as remarks from members of congress. use the gallery of maps to follow the cases in the u.s. and worldwide. go to c-span.org/coronavirus. >> the historymakers is a video archive dedicated to preservi