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the director of the federal bureau of prisons --

the house appropriations subcommittee on commerce just as science and related agencies found that two for 225 inmates and four prison employees have died from covid-19 but vaccinations are underway. the hearing is two hours. >> overall, how should we assess b.o.p.'s treatment by those in its custody and the dedicated staff who work around the clock to carry out the apiece correction mission. -- during the pandemic is not the only matter that deserves close examination in today's hearing. we would also like to hear how the appeals addressing other things like producing overcrowding, the use of staff augmentation, and issue i have contact b.o.p. about on several occasions in the past. grappling with the continuing threat from contraband such as opioid drugs like fentanyl, and

implementation of the first step act. in addition we would like to hear how the is addressing the ongoing and urgent challenge of its aging facilities and infrastructure. so once again welcome director, we look forward to your testimony. at this time i want to turn to my distinguished ranking member for his comments. >> thank you. thanks mister chairman for holding this briefing today. i'm like you say pleased to be here for the first official hearing of the fy 2022 appropriations cycle. even though we have talked on several locations, i want to formally congratulate you mister chairman on your role as chair and wish you well in this new rule.

i look forward to working with you. and also to find ways that we can find problems that foster american competitiveness. enable discoveries in science. folks here on this earth and also in space. >> abilities of federal, state, and local law, just to name a few of the diverse and final missions that is under the -- of the subcommittee. my staff, to work along with you, -- the camaraderie that we have chaired on the subcommittee. the subcommittee for many years. on that note, i appreciate you recognizing all the new members of the subcommittee, on the republican standpoint we have two new republican members.

first we have congressman ben cline, represents the sixth division of virginia. he chaired the committee on militia, police, and public safety. he's also former member of the judiciary committee, and we look forward to him sharing his perspective with the subcommittee. also, congressman garcia represents california's fifth district and he is a decorated naval officer and businessman. congressman garcia, we thank you for your service to our nation and look for to your insights as well and particularly aviation expertise and economic development. i'm pleased at this point today to turn to today's witness, and also i'd like to welcome my director as well.

this hearing is an opportunity for us to hear about how the presents are addressing the many challenges involved in the spread of coronavirus among the borough of prisons and made population. also, i think it is important for us to learn about how the present executive order mandating the closure of all b.o.p. contracted operating institutions is affecting your operation, particularly with respect to its unusual and untimely purpose. the displacement of thousands of inmates following the throws of the pandemic which has taken the lives of as mentioned over 200 inmates already. so with that i look forward to discussing these matters with you today, thank you mister chairman, i yield back.

thank you ranking member. at this time, director carbajal, you are recognized for your opening remarks. please try to keep your statement to five minutes. and remember as always, your full written statement will be included in the record, so that enables you to keep the five minutes. you are recognized director carville. >> thank. you good afternoon, members of the subcommittee, it's my privilege today to speak on behalf of the 67,000 corrections officials who work day in and day out to support our local enforcement mission. -- guided by the values of respect, integrity, and correctional excellence. i appreciate this opportunity to discuss the borough's response to the pandemic as well as our efforts to provide the inmates with the necessary

programming to return to the community and their families. i have spent the majority of my professional life, after i served in the army i moved up the ranks in my position as rank -- the law enforcement officers make. the borough currently comprises 150,000 inmates and 2000 presence nationwide, as well as 200 community based facilities and private facilities. almost 80% of our inmates are serving terms for drugs, weapons, and sex offenses, with 41% of those being medium and high security offenders. the pandemic has made the safe management of those offenders even more challenging. and yet we continue to maintain low levels of serious assault while addressing low entry needs. however it is with a heavy heart and despite our best efforts that i must report that there have been four deaths, four staff deaths and two under 25 deaths related to covid for

the inmates. it's been suggested that the borough is spreading covid throughout our communities, contact tracing performed areas that the virus entered our communities -- follow the same spikes of recovery as seen in at the communities that they're located. it's vital that they work together, the bureau and the community. i thank you for your continued support and frying the resources necessary to manage the pandemic. our involvement is often mischaracterized on public forums. since the first days of the pandemic we have worked closely with the cdc. we've created a plan that reflects the guidance of the leading experts. we welcome stakeholders into our facilities for audits and to ensure procedural compliance. these reviews in addition to our own internal assessments and inspections both scheduled and unannounced ongoing and assistance the bone best

practices. since the passage of the cares act through as existing authorities we have transferred almost 23 million inmates to home confinement, we've been transparent regarding our mitigation, plans data, including staff and inmate covid cases, testing numbers and now fortunately vaccine administration. our public website contains a comprehensive overview of our current status and is updated daily. we are thankful for the bureau is provided the pfizer and moderna vaccines. i'm proud to say that we've administered over 80,000 doses to staff and inmates. the bureau is recognized for laying out jurisdictions and federal entities of having the highest percentage of vaccines administered that were allocated in the united states. in addition, several of our facilities and texas recently faced a severe winter there. despite the unexpected impact on the surrounding infrastructure, including blackouts, frozen water lines and resource distribution, we were able to maintain our

operations. but the request also assisted to the state of texas by providing logistical support to several local municipalities. our staff have responded to this continuous challenges with dedication resilience. and i'm extremely proud of their work. an ongoing criticism of our agency has been a lack of appropriate staffing and reliance on operations in overtime. we are committed to addressing these concerns, by increasing our staffing levels nationwide. and more importantly, retaining our staff. we've initiated a high campaign focus solely on external hiring to maximize or stuffing. all available recruitment and retention incentives, marketing strategies and social media are being utilized to reach potential candidates and to retain staff. i'm honored to speak on behalf of all the bureau staff who worked tirelessly to mitigate the virus, walk -- this is challenging, but it is vital to the safety security of the public, our staff and the

inmates interested tour care. ranking member and other distinguished members of this subcommittee, this concludes my statement. >> thank you. i recognize myself for five minutes of questions. director, roughly 40% of b.o.p.'s budget is four in meat care and programs of which about 1.3 billion dollars is for inmate medical care. given this and the inherent risks posed by contagious disease and the close quarters of corrections facilities, getting up close and personal is a daily life there. it seems prudent that b.o.p. would already have robust plans for pandemic contingencies already in place. and i would imagine, this would

include some form of decision hierarchy and options for escalating responses, adapting to changing conditions and knowing when to throw out the playbook and cohen outside help and resources. while recognizing that few anticipated this kale of this global pandemic, in your view, did b.o.p. plans in place into any 20 include sufficient plans for a system wide infectious disease outbreak? >> thank you chairman. that is certainly a question that should be answered and i will tell you that the answer to that is yes, we have contingency plans. i think the bureau presents has a positive history of dealing with pandemics before. influenza outbreaks, measles, chicken pox, ebola, things of that nature. however, as you are certainly aware and i was actually -- mine from his quote when i

started, i don't think anybody was ready for this, shortly i got to this position. but i was referring to is what i think we've all seen in this world. that this covid was -- it's huge! we learned a lot of things on the fly. one of the big things that's different here is the ability to social distance and how that played a factor. prisons, as you know, are not made for social distancing. so that was one of the more obvious lessons we learned. >> let me stop you there. i only get five minutes and i want to have three questions here in five minutes. really, to me, you said yes, there were plans in place and my question is, where such plans widely understood by b.o.p. personnel and were they adequately chained on that, including steps and sequences? >> he is chairman. as you mentioned, and they mad january, our medical director,

in the last week of january, had already implemented task force specific to covid with the medical force. so we were already working on what was going to occur and distributed to the medical folks. probably in retrospect, what we could've been a little better by spreading that out to everyone else, along with the medical team. one of the first briefings i received, as the new director was on covid, and i will tell you that it was a very enlightening to see what was going on. but that was one of the lessons learned, but i'm happy to say that our medical people were already on this. >> that's what i'm after. what are the lessons learned and the question is, wet forward-looking plans have you put in place based on the lessons learned to win sure you are prepared for any future disease outbreak situations? >> chairman, we've done a lot of best practices, lessons learned, we've established covid compliance review teams to review facilities.

we've sent many unannounced. we've stocked up on ppe, one thing that i am happy to say is that traditionally, we keep a high amount of ppe. it will tell you, oh is very nervous about obtaining it, early, on because everybody was out to get it. i was happy to note that we had a good stockpile already. we built a national logistics center, regional logistics side and we ensure that there is appropriate ppe. we had no time, low on ppe, but we were concerned about appropriate use and control of it. >> okay, that leads to my next question. how well resourced was b.o.p. and it's facilities, its staff, logistics and supplies to deal with the pandemic? >> chairman, as i mentioned earlier, we are traditionally having contingency plans for everything. so we have the base things in place where i think, as i mentioned earlier, that we were

prepared was the magnitude of what the pandemic entailed. so we scrambled everyone else to ensure that we got appropriate ppe. as far as our procedures, we've been locked up in the centers for disease control and other organizations for day one. my medical director speaks with them weekly. our plans were actually used to assist, develop correctional pandemic plan. so i would say that we were working through that, evolving as we went. >> the last question i have relates to the transfer of inmates from one place to another. that happens all the time in the b.o.p.. it has always have to. as i mentioned, and an emergency, in a new situation, you have to be ready to throughout the playbook and adapt to new circumstances. what did gop do to adapt to the new circumstances? once it became clear, all you

had to do was read the newspaper to realize that taking somebody's temperature wasn't enough to make sure that the disease wasn't being transmitted. what did b.o.p. do to adapt to that knowledge? >> yes chairman, as i've said, we've been talking with cdc and talking with them. our procedures, from the start, we started quarantine and isolation procedures. i know that you mentioned the movement and i certainly know we were scrutinized for that. but i will say is that were statutory obligated, the courts never stopped, they slow down and i appreciate that, but we had to relieve all of those local and county facilities and take inmates that were designated to us, essentially serving as a mission. so i couldn't stop and not take in inmates. >> that's all i have for now. i'm going to yield to ranking member adderall.

>> okay, thank. you can hear me? is the mic coming? through >> yes. >> okay, good. director, you stated in your testimony that the bureau of prisons does not control who the court places in your actual system. but the president stated in a recent executive order, without any evidence that quote, to incarceration -- decrease incarceration levels, we must use profit based incentives to incarcerate by phasing out the federal government's reliance on -- the question that i would have for you is, i would just want to clarify with you, since you

are currently the nation's foremost authority on the prison system. is it judges and it's not prison operators or administrators that actually makes these decisions, is that correct? >> yes congressman, i would agree. >> and are you aware of any profit based incentives that are influencing prison sentences by federal judges? >> no congressman, i am personally not aware. >> thank you. and, i had alluded to this past january, president signed the executive order that eliminated the use of privately -- which ends all agreements with its contractors. what would happen to the people who work at these facilities and there are thousands of

people who work across the nation from big spring texas to motion valley, pennsylvania to michigan. and their local economics, given that the president literally took away the jobs with signing this executive order. for example, baldwin michigan, where the federal institution is located, it has a population of roughly 1100 people. it employs 260 people and i realize that this is a rhetorical question but, what type of impact would this have, even though like i said, i know you're not responsible for it, you know, just to get your thoughts on what impact it will have overall? >> is congressman.

it's difficult for me to answer that question because i'm going to say that there is an obvious impact high tide suited to tell you that he would be's are going to be impacted because that's obvious if there are jobs available. unfortunately, i don't have control over white private stew. i've contracts, my responsibility as the director is to ensure that we utilize money appropriately and i manage to federal prisons and in order to do that, i have to maintain and make sure that we are appropriately utilizing the funds that you so graciously give us. and i need to make sure that there is a need for those beds. and i will say congressman, back in last year, late november to december, we were in the process, we had already evaluated this and in my previous position as assistant director, actually oversaw the privates. we'd already made the decision because -- to expire some of those contracts through natural

progression. so we didn't know anything about this executive order until it came out, but we had already made that discussion -- decision for contracts that are currently being closed. i do want to point out, this had nothing to do with executive order, that was an internal decision based on what we're supposed to be doing and that's effectively using our funds. >> i just want to point out that a lot of good paying jobs is not only a problem with an executive order like this, you noted that the bureau of the president through a 14-day quarantine for any unnecessary inmate movement. and the cdc guidelines on the

inmates quarantine recommends quarantine inmates is quote, separately in single cell with solid walls and solid doors fully closed, followed by separately in a single cell with solid walls but without solid floors. that sounds like solitary confinement, which i know b.o.p. tries to minimize as much as possible. the question is, the prisons of following that cdc guidelines and isolating thousands of inmates, who are or will be transferred out of the contract operated facilities for 14-day period. congressman, the short answer to that is yes. but i will note. i don't like the medical term isolation. for the reason you said, we don't like to do that. here's something we did here in covid. the cdc told us that we should be doing that and my medical

professionals advised me to on the correctional side i struggled with that, as you said. yes we try to follow as much as possible the isolation guidelines were mandated to do that. we do. it but what we have done to mitigate the other area of leaving them in medical isolation, there is a difference, we do enhanced treatment. they're checked out twice a day. we are making sure that staff are, that their needs are met, we understand the other challenges that brings. with mental health and things like that. we have to listen to the experts. i don't make decisions in a vacuum. my medical adviser advises and we use that to make the best decisions. >> i see my time is up. thank you mister chairman. >> all right at this point we recognize representative charlie chris for five minutes of questions. >> chairman, thank you very much, i appreciate the

opportunity to be at this important hearing. i want to thank the ranking member who i want to the same law school with -- not, with same law school in alabama. thank you director. it's wonderful to have you with us today. as you know then attorney general barr directed the funeral to prioritize relief to a qualified inmate, presently b.o.p. has about 700 prisoners under home confinement. your website indicates the total number placed and home confinement since march 26th of last year is over 22,000. what have you learned about the use of home confinement during the pandemic? and has it been underutilized? and could the bureau do more to leverage this opportunity? >> thank you congressman. that's a great question and i will tell you that first of all we have utilized the

authorities given to us as directed by attorney general to the best that we could, with the guidance that was given to us . the numbers that you mentioned are there. would i will say that created us a quagmire is that the current statute of home confinement is for a reentry transitional program for inmates at the end of their sentence. the statute, the cares act in a change yet so what that did is we have been applying inmates to hope confinement under the statute which creates some challenges. as you are well, aware we said that we had about about 4500 of those currently are care homes confinement. we use our authority the best as possible. the attorney general give us the criteria. we follow that sir. >> i have a question. so of the existing low risk in meets how many have not been

put into home confinement. do you know offhand? >> no congressman. i don't know the exact numbers. >> if you could get it for me that would be great. i would appreciate it. yes he will do that? yes please? thanks. great. i am curious in the area of nonviolent marijuana convictions, do you have the breakdown of how many of those individuals have been given home confinement? >> no congressman. not specifically that, but i will tell you that one of the -- yes i can. >> thank you. i appreciate that very much. i think i just have one other. we all know how important it is to get vaccinated. especially vulnerable populations and our frontline workers. i understand that staff and prisoners have been offered vaccines. can you speak to how many

employees have been taken up on the offer or what percentage? >> yes congressman. everyone in the bureau of prisons employee wise has been given the opportunity to be offered the vaccine, approximately right around 49 have accepted it. we are continuing to encourage an offer it. if someone wasn't available we can make arrangements to make sure that they get it. >> how many employees do you have? >> currently a little bit over 47,000. >> why do you think it is that less than half have opted to be vaccinated when it has been offered to 100 percent? does that not strike you as odd? >> congressman, i wish i can answer, that but i certainly cannot force it on anyone and i will tell you this. i am vaccinated and i encourage all of my staff to get it. >> i am to. not to interrupt but i am having a conversation i am to and i am grateful for that and

there are about 100 of my colleagues that have been offered the opportunity to be vaccinated as well and i am heartbroken but they are not vaccinated not only for them but for the people that they may socialize with, even if socially distance appropriately. but the may end up infecting, them effective themselves, and dying. it boggles my mind. do you have any opinion on that? as a leader in our country. >> sir, as a leader and the director of the bureau of prisons my responsibilities to encourage my staff to take the available protections, that is what i have done. i certainly protect -- respect people's personal choices as well though. i do too. i do too. i just don't comprehend it. well maybe that's my fault. thank you very much for your time. i appreciate it very much. keep up the good work and setting a good example.

>> thank you. >> of course. >> i recognize representative stephen for five minutes and questions. the >> thank you chair, and director, thank you for being here today. as we progressed in the pandemic there was a quick recognition that senior living residences was a quick source of spread. -- the growing the spread of covid was recognized and a less come of facility, prisons. myself and officers received calls about their health or loved ones sitting in a jail in the pandemic. we closely watched as attorney general barr received directives regarding home confinement. it got to a point where it was clear that the family members and present were long family members, qualified for directives but the b.o.p. had taken no action on getting these individuals out. my staff resorted to reaching

out to legislative affairs staffers within the b.o.p. to move these cases along. it is my opinion that cutting off visitors created a huge problem. there is no transparency for families as to how prisoners were being treated in the new covid environment. families were even more worried about their relatives and the lack of -- from b.o.p. and the prisoners themselves only exasperated the nature. so my question is what were the lessons learned about the covid situation in the b.o.p., and how can the whole process be improved? >> thank you congressman. very good questions. first, off i will tell you that the decision to stop visiting was a very difficult one. i certainly understand after spending 30 years here the importance of visiting, it's part of the re-entering process,

the effect that family contact, has i weighed heavily on it. first and foremost, as stated earlier, a responsibility is to make sure that we protect and keep everyone safe,, inmates family, and staff. we have to think through that. i'm happy to say that as lessons learned and we are just on covid, how we mitigate these things, a lot of our institutions were able to come up with creative ways to build barriers and safely do this. make appointments estimates. things of that nature that we can reunite the families with inmates. that is important. those are some of the lessons learned. we are doing a lot of the same things that schools are, doing restaurants, put up barriers, spread people apart. limit the amount of folks in there at one time. it was a difficult decision, but i think it was important to do at the time. >> appreciate that response. also throughout this pandemic, how many people were actually released from b.o.p.?

>> as i stated earlier congressman, for 23,000 transferred to home confinement. they're still in our custody. many people believe that they were released but they have been. of course there are the compassionate releases. i'm aware of about 3000 of those. i will tell you that off of my head people have been released out of my system and i don't have a current number but i can certainly follow up with you. total releases in the year. i can follow up with you on that. i'm sorry sir, i cannot hear you. >> oh i did not even touch the meat button but someone muted me. i will find out who that was later. can you briefly describe the actual criteria for the compassionate confinement? >> okay so congressman, it's,

difficult i have trouble remembering the sometimes but the home confinement criteria is separate, but compassionate release criteria, with either -- that wouldn't be noted at the time of ascendancy, that's what makes it so difficult. there is a lot of criteria. it's a very serious situation to look at. the fact that covid obviously it's covid risk, it's not a timely process. and essentially what's the compassionate release does is they are asking me to make a motion to the court, to undo a sentence imposed by a judge at court. that's not a quick, process. how we alter that is everyone who submit a package for compassionate release we review automatically for home confinement because that is the quickest way to get someone into the community and the safest way. >> addressing those releases for home confinement, to these

folks ever go back to prison? >> that is a great question congressman. we have not gotten there yet. the statute did not say whether or not, there is no guidance there, it didn't change the rule, i will tell you we have the numbers, there we have discussed that with the oncoming administration, i wouldn't have further discussion and see what we do, we do have a plan, we need to take it back. >> all right director, thank you so much for your time. i yield back. >> thank. you the chair recognizes congressman at case for five minutes of questions. >> thank you mister chair. mister director, i join everyone else in thanking you for what is a tough job in any event. but especially over the last year, so thank you for your service and for all of the folks that served with you. i really just need to follow up on congressman crosses commence

relative to vaccinations. let me just ask you a question. it seems that we dance around this. are you able to compel your correctional officers who work in close quarters, the closest quarters in the country, a highly difficult environment to start with. but you know, tailor made for the spread of covid. are you able to compel them to be vaccinated as a company -- condition of employment? >> congressman i have asked that question early on because of the obvious scrutiny, and the questions we get and the answer to that is no. at this point i cannot. the reason i cannot is the vaccines, as they are issued, now have not been fda approved. there may have been a emergency use authorization so i cannot compel them to, obviously we have a collective bargaining agreement, so at that point should we ever make that

decision once authorized i still have to negotiate that process appropriately, and respect the people's rights because it will become a condition of employment. and if someone refused a vaccine potentially may not have a job, so it is a little bit more of a process, but at this point in time no sir, i cannot tell them to take. it i can just make it available and encourages. >> you cannot compel them to take it because it's not fully fda approved and because it's not fully fda approved somehow there is some condition about this vaccine that falls into question it's a fit? i'm not sure i followed the connection between the fda approval and your ability to help. >> congressman, i certainly understand because i don't fully understand it myself, as you are aware i get guidance at council from people, so between my medical personnel, legal

personnel, and my personal list, the human resources side we have had extensive conversation. i assure you if i could compel, it just for the sake of common sense i would do it. but i do have to follow the rules sir. and i respect that. i can get back with at which point it changes, but that is the best way i can explain it to you right now. >> are you able to compel the inmates of the residents to take a vaccine? same reasoning or they're not subject to a collective bargaining agreement, is the approvals side of it still applicable from your understanding. >> -- from my medical folks and general counsel on the legal aspect is the same reasoning, i can't compel a, inmate i cannot make anybody take the vaccine. same, question as mr. chris asked you to the officers, have you actually offered the

vaccine to all inmates and what is the percentage of acceptance versus refusal? great question congressman. as i stated earlier, 100% over staff have been offered, on the inmates, no dosed goes on used with us so we get the vaccine, we offered to the staff, if they choose not to take it, we use it on inmates. there is a priority risk for the most vulnerable. at this point in time, about 25% of the population has been vaccinated. by july, the last thing i was told that by july, 100% of inmates have been offered the vaccination. >> and so, that's a slightly different answer to the question i asked. the question i asked was, of the inmates offered, how many have said ok, i'll do it? whether it happens and how many have refused? is the percentage roughly half

half, as it was the case with the officers themselves? >> all right congressman, i apologize because then makes it clear. i don't know the answer to that. i do know that we utilize it, so i don't know exactly the percentage of how many are refusing it or opting ought to take it, but i can follow up with you on that, i'm sure we have those numbers. >> thank you very much. let me make an observation in the very few seconds i have remaining. the fact that one half of the officers are declining to take a vaccination that is available to them in this situation, it is unexplainable. i don't know how to explain that. you have, you know, something like almost 30% of the inmates that have now been infected in one shape or form, if i understand your statistics

correctly. i just want to make this point, something is wrong if half of the officers that can take it, don't. and i don't know whether that's a lack of information or misinformation or some misunderstanding in the officer force, but it is a public health matter that that many declined to take it. and something is wrong there. so i'll leave it at that and i hope that there is an answer to that at some point. >> the chair recognizes congressman ben cline for five minutes of questions. >> thank you chairman, i look forward to contributing to this subcommittees work. i want to thank the ranking member in all my colleagues on this subcommittee and it's great to be a new member. i will take a slightly different approach to the questions bobbling up on my

colleague is questioning about home confinement because i do think that the constitutional and other country questions around forced conversations present themselves pretty clearly. but, rector, since march of 2020, a video piece transferred over 23,000 inmates the home confinement. how has the b.o.p. monitored distinctive fiction increase in the inmates outside of the facilities? >> congressman, the majority of those inmates, 94% of those inmates are in community confinement that it is monitored by contracts. i want to stress that that's one of the reasons that we really look at what we put out, the two we do take public safety heavily. those 94% monitors, or contracts, they are not law enforcement officials. they are simply providing

oversight in contracting. the other 6% are monitored by probation office, through electronic monitoring. >> i thank you. i was a prosecutor for several years. it was local prosecution, but same dynamic applied. you had home confinement with ankle bracelets or monitoring. we had several instances where there were violations of home confinement. have you seen any increase in the rate of violations of home confinement since you have transferred all 23,000 inmates to home confinement? >> that's a great question, congressman. i am aware of 21 people being brought back into secure caught custody. only one of those was a new crime. the other ones were violations. i don't know the numbers part

of that congressman, but i can certainly look at them. i am aware of the 21's since the passing of the act. >> okay, thank. you do you recall with that new crime was? >> congressman, as i said, i was trying to remember it, no sir, i don't. but i can certainly follow up with you. >> i appreciate that. now, in terms of the contract, are those specific to the kinds of technology that has to be used in the home confinement, the terms of their confinement or is it pretty much left to the contracting agency? >> no sir, in the statement of work, we spell out the requirements. it is for electronic monitoring, there are a few exceptions because it has to do with, you know, either disability or something of that nature.

it's a very small percentage. the majority of them, the vast majority of them are in electronic monitoring. of course, there's now cell phone monitoring and tracking and things of that nature. but that's predominantly what we do. we write that in the statement to make sure that they can meet the obligations that we want. >> now is the state been at work, pretty clear on reporting requirements and cases of violation where any and whole triggers of the devices have to be reported back to b.o.p. so these companies can't hide a lot of the malfunctions or violation that might be occurring? >> congressman, i don't specifically know the answer to that. but i will tell you that we do checks on the contractors. obviously, cordially, we do unannounced checks on them and things of that nature. so we do monitor that, but to answer your particular question, i don't have that information but i can certainly follow up.

>> that great. i'm just in countering this subjects for the first time. so can you tell me how many different contracting businesses there are? are there dozens or hundreds, how many? >> i believe that last count we had approximately 80 different vendors we used. so, you know, it varies. it goes up and down. but it was 80 at the last count. >> okay. thank you very much, i yield my time. >> thank you. chair recognizes congressman -- >> thank you mister chairman and first thing, i left this committee about ten years ago, and when i had the opportunity to come back, i decided, this is where i wanted to be. i think the issues we have to deal with are extremely

important. i think we've got a good team on both sides of the aisle and i think if we work in a bipartisan way, we can get a lot accomplished. there is a lot of issues on the table on what jurisdiction we do have here. now, i know your employees are hardworking individuals. it's a tough business. i was a former prosecutor years ago. and if someone with the prison guards and they really go all out and do as much as they can and they need to be protected, including from covid. now, these hearings are about us getting answers and only you and your agency accountable, but it also should provide us with guidepost to help address gaps, shortfalls and problems. now, the recent data -- not really the recent data. i know, by the way, we can't

force a vaccination. but, can't your medical team determine how present staff not getting vaccinations are impacting rate of infections in prisons. is it causing a boom infection of stuff getting infected? i know two other members address this issue. and i think we have to address it, because the numbers are real. we're having some problems in this regard. doctor, now, the recent data from johns hopkins bloomberg school of public health, they did in covid 19 cases are often detected among staff before prisoners. compared to the rest of the u.s. population, cases in prisons are 3.2 times more prevalent among prison staff and 4.6 times more prevalent among prison residents. we then died from covid-19 at a

three-time higher rate then same age population. now, given this, would you cracker her eyes to covid-19 to be a great -- would you characterize covid-19 to be a grave danger? would you be willing to submit to a federal safety state to protect your employees? what are you doing to prioritize vaccine distribution and uptake among prisoners and staff? and what prevents the bureau from adopting more transparent process for compassionate release? you get all that? >> yes congressman. i will tell you that as i stated earlier, or medical director, his team are lower it up with cdc, so i'm not a doctor so i have to listen to those experts. sometimes, elise are perfectly

honest with you congressman, i don't like the decisions i have to make. i don't like the guidance i've been given, but i do listen to them. because they are the experts. so i follow that guidance closely. and as you stated, with the vaccine, i mentioned that we were recognized for vaccine distribution, that's because, that's one of the things that we did rather well. we had a plan in place and we issued it and we encourage everyone to take it. so that's something that i think is a positive. as far as making sure that people are safe, we certainly do that. i think that's a commitment we make all the time to make sure that we are doing everything possible to protect the inmates and staff. you mentioned the staff of the vaccination. that's one of the reasons that we prioritize staff over the inmates. because the potential for them, because they come and go into the community, so inmates are actually protected under the umbrella if staff are vaccinated. that's one of the reasons we do

that. so i think i missed another part of your question. >> fact centers of cards that are not taking shots voluntarily? i know you have issues dealing with illegally, but there's got to be a way to change that number, because if the guards aren't being protected, then the inmates aren't being protected. and that's a big issue. it's a big problem. i would hope maybe, you are under the umbrella of injustice, that really take a look at that. get your attorneys to look at that. because it's going to happen. if nobody has the shots, and these people, the guards on the outside get infected. i'm really concerned about that. i think it's one of the big issues. and let me say this, you have a tough job and everybody works in prisons has a tough job. and you've got to have integrity, you've got to work

as a team to back each other up. it's not an easy job. and it's very easy for us to criticize because a lot of things happen, happen in prison and don't happen other places. but i think until we deal with that issue, as long as covid surround, until we smash it out, i think we really have to focus on guards protecting themselves so they protect your inmates. because that's their job, basically. >> yes, sir i understand. i will tell you, i'm permitted to providing that information education, and we continue to encourage, because i agree, we should have as many people vaccinated as possible. as i stated earlier, i can make anyone take that vaccine. >> we've got to look into that. i know that's what you're saying. i i think we really have to focus and see when we have certain jobs, you know, if you want to operate on somebody in this country, you have to be a doctor. and it's the same thing here. we know that people getting covid and we can't stop it

because they refused to get a shot. it's not enough so. mister chairman, i really hope that we can focus on that one issue itself, because i think until we do, we're still going to have a lot of problems. and i read you the numbers. john hopkins school of medicine for that reason. >> i want to now recognize congressman garcia for five minutes. >> thank you mister chairman. it's a pleasure and an honor to be here. it's my first subcommittee hearing and thank you ranking members for that kind welcome. director, i want to thank you for your service to our great nation. not only in your current position and roles in the corrections industry, but as an army personnel as well. so thank you sir. this issue of privately managed versus b.o.p. operated facilities in the midst of the

covid pandemic, using covid deaths as a measure of merit, as the metric if you will, which entity performed better than the other? where the privately owned, privately operated facilities morph is successful at preventing covid deaths then the government once or vice versa? congressman that is a tough question because i think even one death weighs heavily. they weigh heavily on me. even one. it's too many. i will say it is hard to compare that because our numbers are so different. and no i don't have any data as far as percentages and all of that. i will tell you though, i do believe that our staff have done a great job considering the circumstances, given what we've learned, i am happy to

say we only have one in the in the hospital. it shows that we have gotten a handle on this somewhat, but i do not have the numbers that you are talking about. i can certainly look them up and get back to you. >> that would be great. i think that is one of the metrics that is probably one of the most important, if we are looking at this seriously, how to prevent this in the future. the number of deaths seems to be a metric that we should be tracking. you mentioned early in your testimony that some of the privately owned contracts expired due to a lack of demand. is it reasonable to infer from that statement then that from a capacities perspective the b.o.p. is actually doing well right now with what you have? >> but i can tell you congressman is that we obviously have increased capacity. that's one of the things that we took into consideration. the last few years our

population has trended downward. it's hard to predict how many pets we would need, but somehow our research people have been able to hit it pretty close. we're not predicting it increase. certainly if priorities change on the front and, we will see an increase. but that has not been the case, because we put the 23,000 in home confinement and with natural, releases we released 40,000 a year in general, we have the capacity, right now we have 15,000 empty beds in our system right now. >> in a nominal world outside of a pandemic such as the one that we had earlier release options, would that be about the same vacancy rate, or would you foresee the demand rising above the levels of capacity that you have? >> again congressman i don't have the exact numbers, because i have not looked at them. but i will tell you that our population was downward trending so to speak.

one thing we are doing is taking advantage of this to reestablish some targets, one of the best practices i think this is related to what we have been talking about, is that we cannot social distance as i stated a couple of times, with this lower capacity has allowed us to do that is spread that population and open barriers so we put a target percent of 50% capacity, and that also led to making it safer in the present now, obviously we will always have the ability but we are revisiting how we put capacities on those low open door types because of what we learned there in covid. >> obviously those low efficiency models are unique. hopefully only to a pandemic. that isn't something that we should be striving for in the end. in your estimation, at the state level there were some prisons and jails that decided to release more inmates probably than the 23,000 that are within b.o.p. even.

in your estimation, did that save more lives than i ended up costing? did that save more prisoners from dying of covid than it did victims dying of actions as a result of prisoners on the early release program? >> congressman, i can't answer that question because i don't know the data. and i don't have. it it would be pure speculation. i don't want to do that sir. >> i'm out of time, mister chairman i yield back. >> thank you director. thank you. at this time of the chair recognizes congressman david for 30 seconds. >> thank you mister chairman. i've had a ongoing interest in the criminal justice reform and the bureau of -- is certainly key to that. director, i have met with you

in my office, and my staff, six days, march 2020, after you came into office. we had a wonderful meeting and we gave you a whole list of things that we wanted responses to because you were neil. and we never got those responses. then on march 31st, we followed up with a letter, with all of our questions, and we never got a response. on april the 17th we followed up with another level -- letter and we never got a response. on april 23rd my staff met with your staff and we never got a response. so we resent the letter this week because we have a new sheriff in town. president biden. i'm on this committee now which is oversight, a yes or a no, i recommend to the biden administration that your staff is incompetent and be fired. so my question to you is can i

get a yes to answer all of our questions? >> yes congressman. >> thank you. that would be just great. when year later. next question. i've been made aware the number of b.o.p. facilities including one in my region, returned fsa funding for long term investments to help with eligible occupational training. we would like an answer on that if you could in writing as the number of dollars returned, and what facilities returned them, and why exactly they could not use those dollars to help the eligible occupational training programs which were put into effect to help reduce our prison group with fsa funding? can you get that information to us? >> yes i will congressman. >> perfect. thank you.

the other issue i have suffered -- i think we need data, your requests are about, that the irc recommended realtime recidivism data, that shows outcomes, related information to effectively evaluate f as a pattern, what they call risk assessments instrument at your rehabilitating programming. this would require a significantly expanded data question program. evaluation, dissemination of post release outcomes. we are all about outcomes so i can drive recidivism lower. including data about rearrest, 's unemployment, other post indicators of incarceration. what's planned this b.o.p. have to take this clearly necessary expansion of data collection, tracking the progress of our course rated individuals, from prison to reentry, home

confinement etc, later to supervision. what resource will your office need so that we can make this all happen? >> okay thank you congressman. first of, all i do recall our visit, it was a good visit, and i will tell you that i will certainly look into, first i'm hearing about the non responses, i assure you i will not make excuses. i'll find out what happened there is a clearance process, it certainly shouldn't take a year. no disrespect intended. i will also tell you given the opportunity that we will address the issues. i will talk about what happened before but i'm here now. i will look at data. i know i asked the same questions. the money that we are using from step back is to work with outside vendors and contractors to do just what you are saying. i don't know why it wasn't done before sir. i can't answer that question. but we are committed to doing it going forward.

>> you can give me money on the money that was returned, where it was return, why we couldn't execute the money that you are given to help our returning the citizens. thank you. quickly, we will follow up some more later but private sector partnerships, we have got to give folks a fair share at employment and it should not just be because of their criminal history that they are excluded. so you watch the bureau ready to work initiative to -- outcomes directly with employers to hire individuals. my company has had over 500 returning citizens. and the question is what were the lessons learned for the ready to work initiative? and are you planning another image -- iteration of this much-needed program? >> congressman i know i remember discussing this program with you. i certainly support it. i will tell you that right now

i am not familiar with any numbers of that program, we've been dealing with covid now. i get reports on a lot of things. the returning of money, i'm certainly not aware of that, but i will find these answers for you congressman, and follow up with you. >> i yield back. this program ready as well, we have a beautiful trail, which i like, thank you. >> thank you. at this point the chair recognizes congresswoman grace may for five minutes. >> thank you mister chairman. thank you to the director for being here, and for your work. i have two questions. one is about pregnant inmates, which as you know are especially vulnerable population. according to national guidance, pregnant women should receive regular prenatal care, screening, tests, recent

findings indicate that the bp owes -- don't align with national guidance. specifically, national guidance has -- b.o.p. a policies alone and only eight of the 16 just wanted to ask what policies does the b.o.p. have in place to ensure that pregnant inmates have access to regular quality, prenatal care. and also what sort of data just the b.o.p. track related to pregnant inmates. >> thank you congresswoman. i know that i certainly am very much interested in this, pregnant inmates, and making sure that they are safe. i will follow up with my medical director i'm familiar with what you are talking about, the recommendations, and all of that, but i'm not familiar with why we are not there.

i'll certainly find out. i will tell you that during covid we have gone above and beyond to be sure that those pregnant females are taken care of. there's only seven in our custody. the only reason they were made in our custody not in our communities is they don't meet the criteria or they have mental challenges. things of those nature. i will tell you this close to the congressman and a couple of the other issues of our failures in the past. i have established a task force recently, after speaking and meeting with the gao to address some of these issues again, i will not make excuses about why we have not done something but all i can tell you is that given the opportunity going forward we can address these things. that task force is going to help me get the plans in place. find out where the breakdowns were and identify the issues so we can make sure that we don't repeat these things, we will have that information for you going forward. >> great. thank you. i have another question about

the question of solitary confinement. last, year and pr reported the use of solitary confinement in prisons as a way to curb the spread of covid-19. prior to covid, there were about 60,000 inmates in solitary confinement. last june when this was reported the numbers were in the hundreds of thousands in both federal and state prisons. knowing that solitary confinement can cause serious psychological and physical harm, and is actually a internationally recognized form of torture i wanted to ask how many inmates are in solitary confinement today. how many are there due to covid, and how long on average are inmates left in solitary confinement? >> all right congresswoman. good question. i know this is a big topic of

my previous assignment, coming up the trading ranks -- i don't use the word solitary confinement because it's not reflective of what we do. the average today is about 75 days for special housing, the answer to your question about how many are in there for covid, zero, should be zero, now we do have medical isolation, we can't confuse these, things but we should not be, i'm not aware of anyone, my expectation is that no inmates are in the special housing unit because of covid. what i will say is that there have been times when inmates who were in special has been because that's where they were corridor it contacted covid so we manage them there. so there are some differences there. but today, this morning, there was little over 8500 inmates and special housing.

thank you, can i just ask a follow-up on the 8500 inmates who are in there for about on average, 75 days, do they have access to phone calls to the outside world? >> yes congresswoman, they do. they're a little bit more restricted, depending if they're on a disciplinary infractions, there are sanctions that go with that. but yes, inmates in special housing or afforded phone calls, this same opportunities as the inmates in general population. as much as possible, they can keep it in a secure area. so yes, they do get access to phone calls, not as frequently as inmates in the general population though. >> okay, thank. you i yield back. >> thank you. at this point, the chair recognizes congresswoman brenda lawrence for five minutes.

congresswoman lawrence, i want to say, it looks like you are logged in twice. now, it looks like you are logged in winds but we cannot hear you. >> so i'm very special, i have to be on here twice. may i start now? >> you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you so much.

i want to say thank you first of all, to my chairman for yielding and working with you as a second term member of c.j. s and under lure leadership is an honor for me. i want you to know, i served as the co-chair of the democratic women's office. and i want focus on issues faced by too many female inmates during this pandemic. according to records, at one such facility, a minimum security facility called the camp, 34 of 50 inmates tested positive for covid. according to other records, there was a lack of hand soap in the women's bathroom, even though cdc guidelines specifically stressed the need to constantly wash your hands. in some incidents, female inmates were rushed to other makeshift sleeping areas, often

without notice, forcing them to leave behind critical, medical and feminine hygiene products. so director, i found these reports to be incredibly disappointing. in the midst of a global pandemic, can you explain why many female inmates are not getting access to basic female hygiene products? >> congresswoman, i would also say that i find it unacceptable and i find it hard to believe. and if it happened, then i would like to know when and where so that i can do something about it. i will also say that we've had many reports of things like this, as i stated in my comments, they're often mischaracterized or exaggerated. will we have to counter that is, i have implemented these teams to go unannounced. in cases such as that, in some facilities, i'd even dispatch

high-level assistant directors unannounced to put their eyes on these things. because we take them very seriously. i absolutely don't expect that to occur in one of our facilities. there is ample soap and water, there is ample supplies, there's ample hygiene products. i will also say this, there are times when my dispensary has been out of items and i always remind people that they just need to ask for them. so i've heard those things, congresswoman, i agree, they're unacceptable. but i don't believe that, to the level where people didn't have -- didn't happen. >> okay, are you familiar with the camp, correct? the facility called the camp? >> yes ma'am i am, i was regional director in that region and i have visited that facility, i'm very familiar with it. >> is it true that 34 out of 50 inmates tested positive? >> congresswoman, i don't have

the information for that exact facility. but i have no reason to doubt your numbers, especially if you got them off our website, which is updated daily and we have had outbreaks at different places. i know it was affected early on, so it's very possible that i do not know or cannot confirm those exact numbers. i will certainly follow up with you. >> a couple of things i want followed up on as well, the covid positive women allegedly were placed in a mans of visiting room and did not receive the over counter medication to assist with fevers and body aches. not only where the women forced to sleep under brutal circumstances, they were not provided the basic necessities to treat the symptoms. i need to know, because i have visited prisons. and i have been told that

because of the budget that each facility is given the same budget. and so, because female products cost more, women are not given the adequate amount. and i would appreciate -- so, in this report, and i will get you the report in case you haven't seen it. a pregnant inmate shared the story of a bank maine who had developed a cough. yet, you know, the present bureau was not able to quickly respond to the people living in these populated conditions. we're pregnant inmates granted priority status for the consideration of home confinement? >> congresswoman, first of all, i would like to follow up with you and get that information because if that occurred, i want to know about, it is the

first i've heard about. it i will answer other question, yes, one pregnant females with covid hit, as we learn more about it, we make sure that we had ample space in our are -- in our programs to get them out as quickly as possible. again, taken into account that is still have to follow the rules of the law and public safety. so at a current time, there's only 15 pregnant females in the bureau prison, seven of them and are in custody in our facilities, and it's because they don't meet the criteria to go out to the community, otherwise, i would've have already placed on their. so yes, they are given ample consideration. we do everything possible to get them in a convenient placement. >> thank you, i yield back. >> i thank you congresswoman. we're going to start a second round, we will be calling the votes probably within 20 or so minutes. so we'll get as much of the second round in as we can before we go to vote. i recognize myself for another

five minutes of questions. director, i became a congressman in january of 2013. and in february of 2013, eric williams was killed. he was a correctional officer, 34 years old at you as pete cain in wayne county, pennsylvania. he was patrolling on his own in that prison and he was jumped by a vicious, violent criminal by the name of jesse. he jumped him, he had a shove, he stabbed eric williams over 200 times. and eric williams died. i dare say, you have got to know don williams, eric's father since then. and you are very familiar with this whole story. it happened in my backyard when

i was a brand-new congressman and it shocked me that eric williams was made to patrol on his own. and there was absolutely no doubt in my mind that if he had a partner patrolling with him, that would've never happened. and so, this question of augmentation of using statistics to talk about the correctional officer to inmate ratio has come up. and it's been a thorn in the sign of the whole system. the whole time that i've been in congress. you mentioned it. you mentioned your commitment at the top of this hearing to increasing that correctional officer to inmate ratio, which is clearly the answer for tragedies like that. would you tell us exactly what you have in mind? what is your plan and how can

we be assured that you are not going to include psychologists and our teachers and your statistics? >> thank you chairman. i am very familiar with this story and i certainly had the honor to meet mr. williams and got to meet him when i was a regional director up there. i was awarded in a high security penitentiary when that happened and it certainly hits home. so, that stuff bothers me and i will tell you that, what i told you that we were working on this. i'm absolutely committed to addressing those issues. now, i have to explain and i'm sure you've heard this because i know you're very familiar with the facility and with the agency, but augmentation is always been a part and always will be of the bureau of prisons were all correctional orders. that's what allows us to actually function in times like covid. the key there is the overreliance. that's what i'm committed to making sure we get rid of.

i certainly agree with you congressman, they're using other staff as correctional posts is not a good idea when we over rely on it. so, we have started a hiring initiative, i mentioned that. 100% staffing. we're committed to doing that. when it makes that difference, i know it sounds like it should be common sense, but what makes that difference is we got something different. i shut down all internal objectives. but we can't have it both ways. i want to focus all resources to feel those 100% vacancies. so obviously more staff in those units, those prisons makes a safer. that's the number one commitment. the other thing we're willing to do is we've started doing, and you may have seen it in the eighth yale audit, as we've been scrutinized for how we staffer facilities. so i'm taking advantage of this time with their capacity low, and each facility, and we're making sure that we have the

appropriate number of staff at each facility by security level, by operation, by mission, to make sure he can adequately program. but, keep people safe. and that sounds very basic, but it's difficult to do. our staffing guidelines are somewhat modernized, and we began the process. so my commitment going forward, chairman, is that we're gonna do everything possible to make sure that instances like that don't happen. i look forward to working with the department and we appreciate the support from this committee and providing these resources. >> well, it's not just for the protection of the correctional officers, it's also for the safety of the inmates. but i will ask you is will you make a commitment to share with me and this committee, the subcommittee, the actual ceo numbers leaving out all of the other non correctional officers,

share those ceo numbers as compared to the inmate population? >> okay, so right now, congresswoman, i told, you we have a little bit over third -- i was talking approximates because these numbers change. >> i don't mean right now, i mean every couple of months moving forward so we can all work together on the project. >> absolutely sir. right now, we have about 13,500 correctional officers. 1200 vacancies that were working on. so yes, i will share them. >> thank you. and i'm going to recognize ranking member after hole for five minutes >> thank you mister chairman. he has director, i know that the bureau of prisons contract operate facilities offer a wide range of programs to serve their inmates. many of which have been mandatory under the first step act. and have demonstrated that they

reduce -- these include literacy programs, job training, residential drug abuse programs, anger management and mental health treatment. my question is, can the bureau of prisons guarantee that no inmates programs or treatments will be interrupted or won't be discontinued or diminished as a result of complying with the executive order that i mentioned about the closures? congressman, if i understand it, for heard you correctly, i can't guarantee, that not for the reasons you said, in the prison we often run into issues where we have to stop programming. as i stated earlier, covid was an example where we have a crisis and it does affect it.

but i can do is commit to you though that we are going to implement the first step back and make sure that and needs have all of the resources necessary to get those, credits and have those opportunities. that's the. mission security is half of our mission but the reentry and providing those programs is just as important that we are committed to doing that. yes sir. >> so there could be some programs and treatments that would be interrupted if this state of order was put into place. >> no sir. i cannot directly related to the executive order because i don't believe, if i'm not understanding your question it doesn't have anything to do with us being able to provide programs. >> i guess my question is if they have to be transferred, then there will be interruption with someone's programs. . so that is what i was referring

to. >> yes sir, i understand now. yes, sir obviously in the course of any transfer we do interrupt programming. one of the things that we are trying to do to mitigate that going forward across the board is make sure that we have consistent programming throughout so that if eight meat transfers from one location to another, that he can resume his program at the other place. we try to do that as much as possible. our goal has been to successfully complete programs. we have even made adjustments so that inmate can finish a program because that is our goal, to get them to complete these programs. >> okay. bear in mind, i understand that i think that there is a rule for private prisons, just like there is a rule, but we also need to have the borough running prisons. so i understand that there is a partnership, there is room for both.

but it is not uncommon as you note to hear people say that contract operating facilities are less safe than bureau of prisons managed facilities. but isn't it true that 2016 office of inspector general report prison on contract prisons show that privately managed facilities, that they audit and perform better in several key categories including fear of suicides, fear of the hostages, fewer drugs, fewer molestations, sexual conduct, overall grievances, is that correct? >> congressman i'm familiar with what you are talking about. the first thing that i want to point out, as silly as it sounds it's like comparing apples to oranges.

the inmates that we place and privates are -- they have short sentences, they are waiting for deportation in many cases. they don't get a lot of our serious offenders, we keep those ourselves. i will also tell you that we follow the guidance given sir. we are required to follow a executive order, as you mention partner, i -- we rely on that, it's not my position to say whether or not they perform better or not. i will tell you that they fulfill their contracts. with that said we have to fulfill the executive orders and that is the best that i can tell you on that. on any decision, made because we don't think we're performing, >> --

the bottom line is that you don't think that you are the overseer on site. >> if i believe that the contract facilities are unsafe? was that the questions are? >> i'm saying you don't believe that any facilities that you are contracted with there is -- that you oversee that they are unsafe places for the prisoners. is that correct? >> no sir. i don't believe so. they're meeting the obligations are we won't use them. >> that was my question. thank you. thank you mister chairman. >> thank you. the chair recognizes congressman ed case for five minutes. >> thank you. director, i'm still stuck on my prior line of questioning and trying to understand that a

little bit further just so i can try to isolate what the actual issues are. you previously said that roughly half of the correctional officers thus far declined to be vaccinated even though as i understand of the vaccine, the 85,000 doses that you testify were available were made available first to the correctional officers, that right first of all? >> yes congressman. with one exception. the made available to all of our stuff. 100% of our stuff unless they were on leave or something has been made available. for those who are not available they can request at this point. >> understood. i guess the point that i'm trying to make is that you could have had with the available vaccinations to date, you could have had 100 percent in your officers if they had decided to will take it. right?

>> i don't know congressman. i understand what you are saying. the simple math. keep in mind that we call staff, we have 30,000 correctional officers, but i'm talking about all of our staff. the 30,000 that have been offered. certainly if they accepted then we very mill maybe at 100 percent. >> and just taking 37,000 and timing it by two. that's less than 80,000. so we don't have to get into the exactness of this but i am just saying that and my understanding virtually all of your correctional officers could have been vaccinated to date, and yet did not. so your answer when i asked why not, you said can he be compelled to do. it you said the interpretation of fda emergency versus government approval, and you made mention of collective bargaining agreements, let me take off the collective

bargaining agreement side of it for our purposes, have there been discussions with representatives on the bargaining units with congressional officers about taking a vaccine? is that a negotiation right now? are the conditions being policed on whether officers will or will take? it for example is there a disagreement over you know hazard pay or something like that? >> no congressman. as i'm understanding your question, the answer to that is, no now i will tell you that we have had informal discussions. we have an open line of communication with the union. at this point, we have not approached them formally because as i stated earlier sir i listen to the experts, in the case of the experts that is what my don't medical doctor and his staff, this is illegal and labor staff, we've been formally discussed this with

the national union executives. we have informally though. we haven't done any formal approach but we are in constant discussion with them. >> so at this point it seems that whether we like it or not we are in a voluntary situation and voluntarily you could have these discussions with the collective bargaining union representatives, but let me cover the other side of this equation. do you have the sense that -- what is your sense of why half of correctional officers have not been vaccinated? that is much, much higher than any sense that i have of the general population, in terms of could you take it if you could? my understanding is that it is somewhere around three quarters give or take. in any event, it doesn't, matter it's 50% versus a higher, so let me ask you the question, why do you think that? is what kind of information are they being given about the benefits of vaccinations, especially in the context of

their work environment where it is absolutely tangibly a risk to themselves, to their fellow officers, and the institutions, why do you think that they're not taking it in higher numbers? and what do you think you can do about it? congressman, what i can do about it, is continue to absolutely encourage, it we set the example. most of our leaders were the first to take. it and a lot of times again to go back to a relationship with the union, our union leadership has partnered with us to make that example, and encourage the staff. >> have you distributed information tell the correctional officers saying that this is the objective signs public health recommendations of taking a vaccination. this is the reality. is that out there in the field? >> yes it is congressman. i will tell, you i've also done video messages. we encourage it at every level

to encourage them to take the vaccine, the one question that i cannot answer sir is what i think about it because it would be purely my opinion, and that is a relevant here because i cannot make a determination for someone to make a personal choice whether or not they will be vaccinated. certainly high have an opinion on that. but i don't think it is appropriate to share. i will tell you that i respect someone making that choice. i will leave it at that. >> thank. you thank you. director i would suggest that perhaps you can ask them to understand, some systematic asking of them doesn't violate their privacy. >> yes sir. >> we ought to run. we're now going to move to mr. palazzo for questions. and i would ask that the congressman keep two three minute so that we can get through the remaining members before we have pending votes

and we don't have to adjourn and try to come back. remember, all members can submit written questions that will be transmitted to the witness and will be expected to be answered. the chair recognizes mr. palazzo. >> thank you mister chairman. i may be like other members, a lot of this is new to me so i appreciate the directors patients on, this helping to explain you know and provide answers to our questions. so sitting on the call, you know i started having other questions. k

needed their bed space and that is how this was utilized. that is why they maintain illegal aliens, they are usually 150 month sentence or less. they are not in for violent crimes. that's who we place in those prisons. we keep the people that we need to manage on our side. that's the best i can do to tell you that we rely on their bets base at one, point we just don't need it now. >> how many people are in private prisons? how many inmates in private prisons? >> today sir, 13, 000, again the number changes daily. >> the private facilities, were

they constructed with private, dollars or did the federal government provide? them but will happen to the facilities if the contracts are not extended? and what will happen with the prisoners? where will they go? >> okay congressman. so the inmates obviously, we will take back into our custody. spread that through our capacity, as appropriate. as far as answering what happens to the prisons. first of all there's only one present that we took over, for structural reasons, that was taft. that's an our inventory. in our facility. as far as all the other facilities, attend that we currently, have they belong to the private sir and i can't answer with it will be used for, you will have to ask the vendors about. that they're not our facilities. we just pay them to house ever inmates. i do appreciate that. i know the government from time

to time identifies things to private ties because sometimes they can save the taxpayer dollars in these tight and soon to be even tighter fiscal times we need to make sure that we are keeping quality -- thank you very much. >> i thank. you the chair recognizes -- for 13 minutes. >> do you hear me? >> okay showtime. >> i want to get back to the question of safety standards. high rates of existing cardiac conditions are factors that can exacerbate the spread of covid-19 among the two plus people incarcerated in american jails,, prisons and correctional facilities.

now policies that have the potential to curve the spread of the disease, include the early release of prisoners unlikely to pose a risk every offending, implementing strong practices and using widespread testing. now health and safety standards in prison is the key to maintaining health in the prison population and also helped staff in the prisons. in baltimore, part of my district, it class action lawsuit has been filed over the rapid rate of infection and prisoners are saying they are not being kept safe were given the cleaning products necessary to keep them safe. two questions basically. how many of your facilities do you believe meet standards for safe ventilation? and secondly, is your medical

staffing and status of medical care for residents merit all of the current needs where there is likely to be continued gaps in services? if not, what are those needs? >> congressman, i think the easy answer to tell you is that yes we abide by the standards. we undergo aca accreditation. that's a third party that comes and looks at. us it's a very stringent process. we have our own internal processes. with the oig and the gao that are always review our facilities. as far as the medical standards and processes, we have again accreditations that they go through, and certainly we deal with the cdc, other public health organizations like that. so to answer your question, if we are not up to standard we are pretty much told by someone, or we figure out on our own, today yes we are up to standard sir, we take the very seriously, in fact it is something that we

can commit to doing. making sure that we have a safe environment. as far as the ability for someone to have a safety net inside the prison, when we know about these things we certainly look into them. i have heard of many of the allegations, i assure you but before i became director there was no such thing as an enhanced inspections. -- for the reason you said, to ensure that we are doing what we are supposed to. i have one. the fact that you have prison guards that refused to take a test, and you don't have the authority to say that is part of your employment, when in fact by not taking a test these prison guards can infects prisoners who have to be in that prison from covid, to me that's very, difficult and we have got to find a way to work around it.

whatever reasons they have for not taking the test, we cannot allow that point of view to affect the health, safety, and welfare of those prisoners. we have got to focus on that again. just bringing it up for emphasis. i yield back. >> the emphasis is noted in appreciated. the chair recognizes congressman ben clyde for three minutes. >> thank you mister chairman. i will be brief. i wanted to ask about the majority of b.o.p. inmates in contract or operated facilities that are i'll, eons i what is happening to them upon the closure of these facilities. i is there any effort to after

their finished with their sentence deport them, he would kind of consideration is given to where they are being transferred? >> congressman, very good question, the determination of whether or not they will be deported, ice makes that determination. we have a immigration hearing program. i believe we have 24 sites. we work and close carnation with ice. they make the actual determination about whether or not -- to answer the first part of your question, those inmates, they will be absorbed back into our facilities. we'll do our best to keep them. certainly the areas somewhat where they were but it will be based on the availability and the needs of the agency. >> all right, idle can you

outline for me going back to my original questions about confinement some of the factors that you consider as you determine whether to send to home confinement? >> i can. there is a bit of a list here so please cut me off if you think i'm going -- >> is severity offense one of those? >> there's four hard criteria. the easiest thing to tell you you can't have a violent, detain, or sex offense, those are not discretionary. if you fit into one of those categories were not funny because public safety is also in. there we take it very seriously. sir. >> this prior record considered? he >> disciplinary history inside is looked at. i call them discretionary, we look at, those we have a committee attempts that reviews them. we make sure that we are

maximizing the use. keeping public health and public safety, as well as the inmates safety. >> absolutely, sir if you have a detainer you cannot go out. >> thank. you i don't have any other questions. i appreciate your help with that,. >> one follow-up for mr. clouds question. he mentioned prior record. i think what he meant was suppose you are in for a nonviolent marijuana offense, but in the past you had had a violent offense on your rap sheet. you've got convicted of. is that considered? >> congressman, the answer to that is, yes we look at each individual and we assess, them the tally of the circumstance, all of that is taken into consideration. in a circumstance like that we would reach out to the attorney generals -- office and follow-up to see what type of crime it was and

if it fits. that it is looked at and it is taken into consideration. the u.s. attorney's office has also said that they will provide information about whether they support us releasing that information. >> thank. you i recognize mr. trolling for three minutes. >> thank you mister chairman. this was a step in the right direction. totally by partisan. very good work done by the president. in fiscal 20, congress included 25 million dollars for funding for implementation, in fiscal 21 we include 400 million to move forward implementation, part of the first step act implementation required independent review commission to review a report. that report came out just

recently in december. the report failed, and i quote, even a full return to pre-covid b.o.p. programming levels will not be sufficient to make available the quote evidence based recidivism reduction programs and productive activities for all eligible prisoners in bureau custody by january 22 when it was required by the fsa legislation, the borough requires significant appropriations in order to musk through the personnel and programming access necessary to achieve that goal. so what kind of programming and how much additional funding will be required for all eligible prisoners in the bureau's custody to access some really good things? occupational training, educational classes,

behavioural therapy, drug treatment, that are all required by the fsa. >> yes congressman, thank you, first we certainly appreciate the 409 million dollars provided by this committee in our budget, we will put it into good use, with some of the things that we mentioned, we have over 80 recidivism reducing programs and productive activities. even through covid, even though it hindered our ability, we still had 51,000 inmates who ruled in the programs and productive activities, over 21,000 of them had a completion. so i read the report, sir i was a little bit shocked about the irc's recommendation because we work closely with them. we are expanding capacity. we are utilizing the funds provided by congress to ensure that we hire up, a lot of those

first step back position specific to expand the programs you mention, career technical education, things of that nature. >> we are running out of time. quickly can we go back to the office, we have nine months to get this complete as the first step back. the bipartisan peace legislation required, the irc said it will not happen at the current rate. so we like to know how it is going to happen in the next nine months, and if it is not what do you need so that we can help you implement the first step act as congress president trump initiated? >> yes sir. we look forward to working with the department to ensure that we have the resources to implement it. we are committed to making this happen, congressman, i assure you. the chair recognizes mr. garcia for three minutes. >> thank you mister chairman.

director, i empathize with and for you sitting in -- with a buddy of legislators asking you why you are not legislating a met you have no control over. that seems that it would either come out of the legislative branch or executive order of some sort. i don't support mandatory vaccines as a qualification to work in any capacity, but i also think that it is rational that if that path is taken, then it should be directed from the federal government and not up to federal characters in any individual agency. many questions to that. i'd like to ask you for two pieces of data to be submitted to the record. to my first question earlier, the metric of percentage of death rate within both the privately operated and also the b.o.p. operated facilities. and the second.

if we can get a count of victim deaths as a result of early release of prisoners in the midst of the pandemic, those two metrics, i know they're not in front of you but they should be attainable if we can get them added to the record as part of your testimony that would be fantastic. does that sound doable? >> yes congressman. i'm not sure what it would take to get those but i will certainly follow up with your office and let you know that we can either provide them to, you or why we cannot. >> thank you sir. i will end with the question. how is correction officer and staff retention and recruiting right now? and if it is suffering or depressed in any way, what can we in this body here, especially in the subcommittee do to help you retract and retain talent? >> thank you very much for that question congressman because that is one of our biggest

challenges. that's what we're doing with the hiring initiative. i am happy to say that even through, covid last year, a staff as that was we hired over 30 staff, but we lost as many, so again to balance. out we are working on retention. we're trying to do things to improve safety. make sure the staff know we're committed to do that, i think the biggest thing that we could give from this, body all of the members of congress is positive support. certainly, people that live in your constituency, tell them that we are hiring. tell them we are hiring. i have jobs available. i see millions of people at work and we are hiring right now and we have great jobs, it is a great way, public service, our slogan, come work on the inside. that is what we can do. that is what we can use from. you we appreciate the resources that this committee has provided. we certainly put them to good use but i think having this

positive message in community that we are not a broken organization, we certainly can use improvement, but we have jobs available right now. thank you. >> thank. you i'm committed to support you in that effort as well. i yield back. >> thank you. members that concludes our second round. we're going to stop there, i'm going to remind all members that we have provided you with a email address which you can use to submit written questions to director carvajal, he has evidence a willingness to go ahead and answer those. director carvajal we will take you are promises at face value, in that light, in that spirit. look forward to working with you to keep us posted. we need to know these answers to properly fund the bureau of prisons and make sure that you have the tools that you need to

carry out your mission, in a, ethical humane, and practical way that the american people expect. so thank you for joining us. this is the end of the hearing. this hearing is adjourned. thank you all.

during the civil war, animals are served in a variety of rules from transporting supplies to acting as regimental mascots. up next, brad stone talks about general leads hen, jeff davis, the marching pig, goats on boats and dubbed the camel. national museum of civil war medicine hosted this program and provided the video. >> hi there, i'm bread stone with the national museum of civil war medicine, and i'm here today to talk about the role that an