tribal affiliation. the decision does not affect me but with a sad about it is that the way the census was written, or rather the one drop rule is a play. you even know my great grandmother was the product of a cherokee judge and his sleeve, she has no degree of cherokee blood officially recognized. when you look at that branch of the family who say oh, here are all these indians, but they have no degree of indian blood. >> darnell davis, thank you for speaking with us. >> thank you. >> american history tv on c-span 3. exploring people and events that taught american stories. every weekend. saturday at 2 pm eastern on

oral histories. leon ellis talks about his time serving in the vietnam war. as a prisoner of war. for five years. saturday at 6 pm eastern on the civil war, a look at confederate -- on the mississippi during the last years of the civil war. saturday at 8 pm eastern on lectures in history, american university professor joseph campbell on the cronkite moment. on sunday at 2 pm eastern, on oral histories, u.s. army veteran david taylor reflects on his time serving as a clerk during the vietnam war. sunday at 8 pm eastern on the presidency, a look at newly elected presidents first addresses to joint session of congress with president george w. bush in 2001 and president barack obama in 2009. exploring the american story, watch american history tv this weekend on c-span three.

american history tv on c-span 3. every weekend, documenting america's story. funding for american history tv comes from these companies who support c-span three as a public service. trail of tears, president jack baker talks about forced relocation of native americans in the early 19th century. mister baker, members of the cherokee nation also discusses his own families voluntarily moved to oklahoma. this is an all day conference hosted by the university of oklahoma, center for the study of american indian law and policy and preservation. >> now it gives me great pleasure to introduce jack baker. he is a former member of the tribal council of the cherokee

nation. he served for 11 years representing those cherokee citizens resigning outside of the cherokee nation. he's a national president of the trail of tears in association. he is also the current president of the oklahoma historical society and serves on and on -- a member of other boards. he has an extensive research, cherokee research for more than 50 years and has authored various articles and edited various books on cherokee history. i can say that he continued his research even yesterday at the library of virginia. it gives me great pleasure to introduce jack baker. [applause] >> thank you, elizabeth.

it's an honor to be part of the symposium. but i come before you as a citizen that the united states and also a citizen of the cherokee nation. i'm an eighth generation oklahoma because of the trail of tears. at the time of our forced removing the cherokee's own farms and large plantation's and aunts lindsay pointed out, our constitution was adopted in 1827 and with sacoolas invention silver as lindsay also stated, almost every

family of the cherokee nation had at least one literate member. it compares to the high literacy right of the cherokee nation. in 1820, the publication of the cherokee phoenix, the cherokee became well informed on the issues every movable. by 1819 our people had seated 90% of our original's land. by the time of removal, a little dark area at the bottom is all that was left. these remaining lands, we sought to keep on our white neighbors -- cherokee farms sought to have them removed. 1832 decision of the supreme court recognized the

sovereignty of the cherokee nation. yet even this did not save us from the treaty signed by a handful of cherokee's. major ridge is one of the principal leaders. the signers, as lindsay stated had no authority just before the cherokee nation. the congress gratified this treaty in 1836 by only single vote. it was signed by president andrew jackson on may 23rd. the chair's were given two years from that day to remove. the principal chief of tribal council competed in the efforts to oppose removal but to no avail. in late may of 1838, general winfield scott and his troops began to round up our people. the removal force had been constructed throughout the cherokee nations places to temporarily contain the cherokee's as they were gathered up for removal.

full several of these forces have been constructed a couple years before during the creek removal. several hundred creeks had fled to the cherokee nation to avoid removal and soldiers had gone throughout the cherokee nation in an attempt to find them. it is sometimes questioned as would -- why the cherokee's did not go ahead and remove as they were aware of the force being constructed. reverend steven foreman who was a half blood cherokee flu had been educated in the missions in the cherokee nation and later in princeton, both -- to the american mission board in boston, may 31st of 1838. creek mission. the reverend david greene said very dear sir, from the date of my letter, you perceive that i

am still in the cherokee nation east and still in the neighborhood of the candies creek mission. how much longer shall we be permitted to remain here in our own lens, to enjoy our rights and privileges? i do not know. for the present aspect of affairs we shall very soon be without house and home. indeed, ever since the 23rd of may we have been looking for soldiers to -- and turn us out of our houses. they have already warned us to make arrangements and come into the camps before we were forced to do so. but i have stated distinctly to the officers at headquarters what i thought of the so-called treaty and with course i intend to pursue with the advent that no treaty was made. i see no reasons yet why i should change my mind on.

my determination and the determination of the large majority of the cherokee, is yet in the nation is never to recognize this fraudulent instrument as a treaty, nor remove under it until we are forced to do so at the point of the bayonet. it may seem unwise and hazardous -- this instrument that we should pursue such a course. but i am fully satisfied it is the only one we could pursue with a clear conscience. brainerd wrote this journal on saturday may 26th. in georgia we were supposed to be about 1000 cherokee's. we were taken just as we were found by the soldiers without permission to stop for friends or property.

as a soldier's advance towards the house, two little children fled in-flight -- fright to the woods. the women pleaded for permission to seek them or wait till they came back in, giving positive assurances that she would follow on and join the company. all and treaties were vein. it was not till after that she would get permission from one of her friends to go back after her lost children. amanda deaf and dumb attempted to make his escape, and because he did not hear and obey the command of his pursuers was shot dead on the spot. women, absent from their families on visits or other purposes were seized. far from their wives and children and not allowed to return. children were being forced from home, dragged off among strangers. cattle, horses, hawks,

household furniture, clothing, mighty. it is said that the way -- with open arms to seize whatever property they could put their hands on. some few who had francis speak for them resisted afterwards in getting some part of their lost goods. thus in two or three days, about 1000 people, many of whom were in good circumstances and some rich or either homeless, houseless and penniless. exposed all kinds of electively. a few months later lucy butler, the wife of elizur butler went to massachusetts. eliza butler was -- i was happy to see that lindsey

mentioned hand as part of this because, i assume it was because the case was loses purchase georgia. the sacrifice on the most part was overlooked. part of lucy's letter written from tennessee states and, i agree to missionary laborers in 1827. i arrived that brainerd among the chairs keys. remained there to lantern the great state in 1830 and removed to a mission station near georgia. -- before my husband was shut off in prison by the authorities of georgia for refusing to take an oath to support their measures against the cherokee. were to leave the situation where just a shun, which was in the chartered limits of that

state. and for labor in a year and a year and a half in the penitentiary to return to his missionary labours among the cherokee's. but a little more than a year, the same law, which had sent him to prison found means to break up the mission station. we then headed invitation from the cherokee's to commence the station at this place that is red clay tennessee. and methods taken to cherokee prisoners were various. and she goes on to state it was common for a third party of soldiers to be sent to certain neighborhood. upon arriving at a house the inmates were ordered to march and sometimes they were allowed to take light articles to be conveyed in the wagon that many times they were not suffer long enough to take as much as a change of clothes with them.

if their horses with -- hand they were often permitted to write them. but they were driven on foot at a point with a bayonet. if parents cannot put their children on their horses or on their own backs they were ordered to get into the wagon. if any reluctance were shown by them they were thrown in by the soldiers and then driven over the rough road with such speed, that in some instances were severely injured. perhaps they were driven from more haste from their dwellings on account of the frequent rumor of these hostilities. the fear of this and suspicion that the charities would secrete them selves, have a lot of soldiers together neighborhoods in the night. to accomplish this, they would enter enter a cherokee dwelling,

and amidst their slumber's they would be aroused for their march. here they would be brought together, the aged the, middle aged, the youth and the children of all sizes. together the people in such haste, whether by night or by day, has been much distress and lost a property. husbands and wives, parents and children, have been separated and carried off to different camps where they've known not nothing of each other for weeks or months. so they were first taken to the 31 stockades, throughout the cherokee nation. and the conditions in the stock aides were deplorable. people had no shelter, only a few blankets. so whatever they could grabs they were being forced from their homes. these stockades were referred

referred to as concentration camps. and maybe it's the first time this term which used. in the stockades, the cherokee were taken to 11 internment camps. on may 31st, rain heard mission, talks about one group being taken to the internment camp so little bit before sunset about 200 turkey had been taken and of course all men women and children were soaking wet with scarcely a blanket fit to cover them and when some of the women taken from their houses due to stress they had to wear the same clothing for a journey of

about 800 miles. as soon as permission was obtained from the officers they opened every door of these poor poor suffers mothers brought their babies to our fire, and took off the clothing to dry. and the little lips of the children blue in color. yet a smile of gratitude for this kindness. >> i'd like to tell you how the removal affected my fourth -- grandfather. apparently his mother-in-law gave birth to a baby baby girl right after removal. and were driven to one of the internment camps she refused to

cross a stream. and she was stabbed by one of the soldiers, and died soon after. reverend who was there according to his journal one of the stories he states. we also learned, that when the last couple were taken over the river, the one woman in the pains of child burst, tried to walk as long as possible and then fell in the river. a soldier coming up stab here with his bayonet, which soon caused her death. and james hehr had married her daughter only a few months before. and lizzy's other four children, were reared by them. in mid june three groups of about 800 each, were started west from ras is landing in

tennessee. of that group, only 635 arrived. with 146 deaths, and to births being recorded. there is a severe drought at the time with such extreme heat. and james hehr's mother, was in this group. her father william north was a white man, who married a cherokee woman about 60 years before. a couple of months before he had been described as being upwards of 100 years. there is no record of his arriving in the west. however in a series of interviews, conducted in the chat knew that era area at about 1900. mr. carter tells the story. the white man named north

married and indian, he that is mr. carter, heard that they threw him in the river and drowned him on the way west, because he was so much trouble. but because of the high casualties of these first groups, permission was given to the later removal of the other groups in the fall, when it would be cooler. also the cherokee leaders petitioned general scott, about removal, and permission was granted. james here he soon became too ill to continue as their leader. james hair sister, traveled in another detachment.

and the reverend who also was with this attachment, he wrote in his journal in 1838. it was a thursday, two children won a daughter of our dear sister, recalls this. so james harris now lost his wife's mother his niece and his father. by this time, the extreme heat of summer had given away to a cold winter. and they wrote the reverend road again. on december 26. they were stopped by floating ice. and they were stopped at the ohio river. december 27th, we proceeded with the detachment, about six miles where we camped for the week. here the snow increase to three or four inches, and the weather was excessively cold.

lucy butler, in the same letter that i mentioned earlier, written on december 20th states, my husband is -- among the cherokee, and attended as a physician since they first were together. last summer by their request, he was appointed a physician by general scott in a camp about eight miles from our station. after arrangements were made for the cherokee is to remove themselves, he was asked to serve as a physician on their way to the west. the last letter i had from him, which was from illinois, which was the 19th of november. about 20 miles inside of the mississippi. they did not accomplish quite half of their journey at the time. they had considerable sickness. about 27 of their number, lay buried between that place and the one where they convinced

their journey. during this time george hicks, one of the conductors. sent the following letter, to the headquarters in north carolina. johnson county illinois, 1839. my dear friend and brother. we left the cherokee nation east, the land of our negativity, on the first day of last november. picked up the line of our march for the far west. and to the mercy of an all-white providence, who is every ever ready to assist the oppressed. whose ears are ever open to their cries, we have arrived thus far on a journey to the west. the following winter, has been very cold. and we have necessarily suffered a great deal from exposure, from cold and fatigue. are people, a great many of

them were very poor, and very destitute of clothing and of the means of red nearing themselves comfortable. we've done all in our power to remedy this situation, and contributed very much to the comfort by supplying them as far as we could, with blankets and shoes. but still we have suffered a great deal with sickness and have lost since the 21st of october, about 35, a great proportion of them were the aged and children. our numbers are over 1100, it's a large trained to attend to, and to watch over and requiring a law deal of care, and cross causes great anxiety. and add this to the fatigue of

traveling, brought a sickness to which i thought i would not recover. but through the mercedes of an all-white providence, i have indeed recovered my health. we are lying about 20 miles of the mississippi river which we cannot cross because on account of the ice. for two weeks we have not been traveling because there are two detachments of cherokee's which must cross before we cross. the floating ice on the mississippi which at times, it is impossible. but still, we keep crossing and i'm in hopes that we will be over in one or two weeks. we will start in the morning again on a journey west. the roads are all in order, as the ground was frozen pretty deep, and has been for the last ten days a general fall, not even any frost. together with a good deal of

wet. which will probably make the roads almost surpass it'll. but we must necessarily calculate on suffering a great deal from hardship and exposure before we reach our homes in the far west. we look to the almighty for strength and protection, to enable us to reach the place of destination, as yet we are hardly half -- . and to look forward to the determination of our journey, and we are told we can not have yet hope for the best, respectfully george hicks. john ross left last, a referee saw all the other charities on his way west. he traveled in a steamboat with a small group of cherokee's. in order to take those who have been to ill, to leave with a regular detachments. while the various detachments

are ready to cross the river, he visited the camps, and he wrote the following account. on my arrival at the water detachment at four duke, i received letters from various people, in nashville informing me that it is understood, but even the land detachments had been stopped at the mississippi river by ice. and for reasons that are most advisable, to transport the immigrants that point by water. that's where they sent me proposals, for finishing the steamboat for that purpose. i also received letters, from mr. -- one of my principal agents on the ground. all urging me in the most pressing terms to visit the detachments. for as my presence was

indispensably necessary, they were calculated to deter them from pursuing their journey to missouri, the roads were very bad, and would be impossible to procure supplies. these reports were suspected to have been put in circulation with the view of creating alarms that they might insist on taking water at that point. i know these rumors were started by the first families of nashville. which i'm sure most of you remember, is the home of andrew jackson. many of whom made a great deal of money from the early removal of the other tribes. so they were seeking the profit for the cherokee removal

it was also suggested he might be dangerous to transfer some of the sikh to the water attachment. i therefore deemed it my duty to repair it without hesitation. at first i determine the propriety of running the boat up to mueller's very with a view of receiving -- to go by water. with the captain of the boat advised against it, for reasons that neither himself nor the pilot knew anything of the navigation of that part of the mississippi river. took passage on the boat. sending the river and leaving his underlying, my sick family, with the other immigrants to wait my return, who should be a speedily as possible. about 12:00 that night, i was landed -- i met with mr. clark and my brother louis and others and

immigration. from whom i ascertained to the attachment, had crossed the river. within a camp a short distance off. george hicks, richard taylor's attachment had not yet crossed readiness for the purpose. i directed to be distractedly made known that no change could or would be made from completing the journey by land. it was evident these alarming tales about the road service era or ingrate measured magnified for effect. however true the scarcity and high prices for supplies on the road might prove to be that supplies should be procured, cost would they would, if they were to be headed within reach of their travel. -- taking up the line of march the next morning which is done according. i might add at all the cherokee

's were in charge of their own removal. there was never any complaints of lack of food on the way. it goes on to say, in these boats, -- prevail upon to stop to take me on board. after this we were detained two or three days. i determined not to wait any longer for passage by water. road down in two days on the boat. accompanied by my brother. the next morning after my return we slipped cable. within a week from that time, my children became motherless and the remains of mrs. ross were left in a strange land. his wife died and a little rock, arkansas, and was buried in little rock. three of the 12 detachments

during january did cross the mississippi before they stop the other detachments. the others arrived in february and march. it's often an estimated that as many as 4000 of the 16,000 cherokee's -- words a result of a forced removal. it appears to have been only about 1200 actual removals. however, there were many additional deaths following removal that reduce the population of the cherokee nation by at least an additional 1600 people. kykmcy 16,000 caused by the removal. in may of 1825, the cherokee's had passed an act imposing the death penalty on anyone who should propose of sale to the exchange of their lands. after the arrival of the president cherokee nation, a group of cherokee's met

secretly with various members of the treaty party based on the law major ridge. along with his son john rich. his nephew were all executed at various places on june 22nd of 1839. when at the execurskykykykmçç of major ridge was james hehr. i the trail of tears is an example of what can happen when prejudiced combines with greed. it's a direct result of the supreme court decision in -- versus george shipping north. turkey's face to great adversity in the forced removal but we survived. we mainly began to reestablish our nation we're able to adapt to earn a lands and prosper in

them and chief hostin after lunch will talk about the rebuilding of our nation. and who we are today so this ability of our people to survive and adapt is the true story of the trail of tears and how we wish it to be remembered. thank you. [applause] any questions? >> [inaudible] a very tragic story. i am chief of an indian tribe. it eliminates the blood thirsty land grabbing invaders that set foot at jamestown on may 14th, 16 or seven and less than three years later, lord delaware

ordered -- by 16 99, nine out of ten of the virginia woodlands and aryan indians had perished. the story told really resonates with me because forced removal of the virginia indians occurred in 60 46. and the department of education across the state had skillfully artfully left out that history so we are surrounded by a culture that is largely ignorant of the tragedies not occurred among the indigenous people beginning may 14th 16 oh seven. >> thank you. we had the same problems in our oklahoma textbooks. at least when i was growing up there was nothing about the indian tribes. it's a home history stand

started with the land runs in our lands in 19 -- 1899, but they've improved somewhat but not to the degree that they should. >> what is the status of those cherokee's that did not do -- or not, because of various reasons, they married a white person and did not do the trail of tears -- my understanding is they are not on the cherokee register and there is no way these people could be on the cherokee register because they did not do the trail of tears were a multitude of reasons? >> it was mentioned earlier by lindsey in the one question about pagan citizenship versus lindsey mention. 1835 treaty provided that if a person was able -- that he could apply and then become a citizen of the state and remain in the nation. excuse me, remain in georgia or

some of the other states. i think for about 150 in georgia that elected to do this. but since he also mentioned, they gave up their citizenship of the tribe to become citizens of the u.s.. so while they are of cherokee descent they are not eligible for citizenship and the cherokee nation because of that. because our role is based on residency and our citizens in 1902. i liken it to the fact that i have german ancestors. so i have german descent, but i am certainly not going back to germany to declare that i am a german citizen. so by giving up their citizenship it was the same thing.

>> i have a question regarding the native americans having plantations as you mentioned. also, or their united states loss regarding native americans owning or having enslaved africans, african americans, and also, where they're enslaved africans americans who moved along with you during the migration to the north and to the west? >> yes. there were a future keys who had been on african american slaves during this period, the ones with the larger plantations for the most part made sure that they were slaves, which unfortunately they consider valuable property. they made sure that they made it to the cherokee nation west. there are a few chair he's that

own maybe one or two african americans, and they accompanied them on the trail. in the metrics journal, when he was a company on the richer chandler detachment, he even described it at one point where he hired an african american lady from the owner to do some launching for him and his wife. so we recognize that there were many african americans under the removal under the five tribes, but unfortunately there's not a lot of documentation or stories and we would like to include more of those stories as we find them. thank you. [applause]