traders." so this treason issue will be central to this election. >> learn more about the 1864 presidential election, tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern, 5:00 pacific on american history tv. >> former vice president walter mondale died on april 19 at the age of 93. next, from 2015, a conversation between walter mondale and former president jimmy carter, who served together in the white house from 1977 to 1981. this program was part of a tribute to mondale, hosted by the university middle school -- university minnesota school humphrey school of public affairs at the university of minnesota hosted for this event recorded in washington. vp. mondale: i am humbled

tonight by president carter's presents with us despite his health challenges. i was honored to be his vice president and to be with him at the center of most of his central decisions. we succeeded together where many other presidential and vice presidential teams have been shattered. what held us together is a deep shared common bond, committed to truth and decency. i never doubted the president's commitment to those values and i don't doubt it today. we also succeeded because we always lived up to his promise to welcome me into the center of his presidency and protect the dignity of my presence. he always, always kept that promise. we succeeded for many of the reasons we will discuss tonight.

we agreed on those issues. so i am here with you tonight to celebrate the life of this remarkable american. i love the guy -- let's give him a big hand. [applause] >> as an observer of this experience of the things that so , one impressed me has been the personal relationship that has developed and grown over the years between the two of you. mr. vice president, i know you went to atlanta a few weeks ago, and you had dinner with president carter. is anything about that dinner you wish to share with us tonight? vp. mondale: quite a bit, yeah. [laughter] i called the president when the

news came out, and watched your remarkable news conference, which was one of the class acts i have ever seen. i said, mr. president, i can't help you on the health side, but how about i come down and we will spend an evening sharing stories about the good old days. and you said, that is it? [laughter] we had a wonderful, positive evening, and we had a chance to read tell some old stories and to remind ourselves of what wonderful years they were. host: mr. president, is there anything you would like to correct the record? [laughter] pres. carter: if we had recorded that evening, it would be more entertaining than this tonight. [laughter] we talked a lot about joan and so forth.

i would say the mondale family and dakota family are just about as close as any families can be. that has been the case since we first got acquainted. we met for the first time in planes when they came to stay with me. we had about 600 people in town. we got along well with the peanut farmers. i thought, if anybody could get along that well with peanut farmers [indiscernible] [laughter] host: very good, thank you. president carter, you have many significant legacies from your time in the white house. we talked about them earlier today, and we will certainly get into more this evening, but one of the most important, i think, is what the two of you did together to shape this obscure, neglected office of the vice presidency. it has been a remarkable thing to see, and we are happy that vice president biden is here today.

[applause] he spoke eloquently, this morning come about his and president obama's shaping of the office. shaped by your experience. i can't imagine -- let me ask you this. had you thought about the vice presidency beforehand? what was it that you really wanted in a vice president? pres. carter: all the way through my political career, my favorite president in my lifetime was harry truman. i was in the navy when harry truman eventually ordained the end of racial discrimination. i was really shocked to learn later that truman was never

informed about the atomic bomb. when i first began to explore possibilities of becoming president, before i knew i was going to win, i found out that, until then, the vice president had never been briefed by defense on how to manage the atomic weapon in case of a nuclear war with the soviet union. i began to realize that, for all practical purposes, the vice president was still part of the legislative branch of government. his main duty was to preside over the senate, in case of a tie. i thought the vice president ought to be in the executive branch of government. jonah and i had a long talk. he was mostly talking. [laughter] he had some ideas he wanted to explore about how the vice president could become an integral part of the

administration, and not separate like it always has been. i suggested it or he suggested it and i excepted, i don't remember, but it was suggested. what are you go talk to vice president humphrey and vice president rockefeller and get some ideas about what could be done to bring the vice president closer to the president, at least. that was how the whole idea began. that is when he turned to you, if i'm not mistaken. v.p. mondale: you pointed him to are two vice presidents that had unhappy experiences in the office, and that was telling. he did give it a lot of thought. mr. vice president, you said that what president carter gave you was the most generous gift of any president in american history. do you want to expand on that and tell us what you meant? v.p. mondale: i would say the thing that worried me the most was that i was going to lose what i knew to be an independent position in the senate.

and that i might go down that same road that hubert and others went down, where they slowly heather dignity taken from them, and they are not really involved in a meaningful role in government, and it is kind of pathetic what they went through. i did not want to do that. i was not going to do it. when president carter and i talked the first time, we we went over it -- we went over that quite a bit. i became convinced -- it was his idea as much as anybody's. i was convinced that he was quite aware of this possibility. anti- wanted to bring his vice president into the center of his administration, and then, we worked out some of these principles, like i did not want to be doing other things. i was no makework. i wanted to be a general adviser

to the president. i wanted to be able to bring to him good news and bad news, without going through censors. nt agreed with that. and in order to do that's, i needed to have the information, secret and otherwise, that allowed me to be a source of support. then, i was willing -- i wanted to be a troubleshooter, as well, and i wanted to take on chores around the country and around the world. so we -- i think we agreed on it. when we had that talk, we agreed on that. i was convinced that he meant it. after four years, i am persuaded that it worked. [laughter] pres. carter: i think the best thing with me was, as a georgia peanut farmer, i needed a lot of help. [laughter]

i felt a vice president would be the one to give me the help i needed. i never had served in washington before, and he was an expert, at least with his help from hubert humphrey and others, and that was the main thing. we began to explore every possibility of moving the vice president close to the president. he had never been in the white house before. and i spent one weekend with hubert humphrey, because i found out, just before he died and while he had cancer, that he had never been permitted to go to camp david. i invited him to go, and i had a speech to make on the west coast. i came back and picked him up, in minneapolis, and we spent a weekend at camp david, just me and him and his medical doctors. he unburdened to me that

weekend things that i'm sure he had never said publicly. i had never asked since then. that was the deprivation he experienced as vice president, and the exclusion from any role of an authoritative nature, of an executive nature. he was deprived of taking news reporters overseas with him. he had to get all the press releases from overseas trips approved by the president before it could be issued. he was never involved in any serious discussions that lyndon johnson had with any foreign leader. he was restricted severely on his ability to go into the congress, and they would start and originally conversation with another member of the u.s. senate. it was very embarrassing to him as a human being, and i think counterproductive. i decided, then, that i had done

the right thing with chris, because all of those things changed when fritz became the vice president. [applause] host: as you know, hubert humphrey was a mentor to senator mondale and many of us from minnesota. and to you. and he suffered in the vice presidency. even though he did, he urged to be open to the idea. do you want to talk about that? v.p. mondale: at your suggestion, i went to see hubert and i said i think i have a possibility of going with mr. carter and running for vice president, but in light of the experience you had in this office, and the kind of pain fullness and humiliation of it

all, what do you recommend? he said i recommend you take it, if you can get it. it is wonderful, you will learn more than any other way, you will have more influence one day then you will have all year in the senate, and i hope you will consider doing it. i must say, i was never sure whether he wanted me to be vice president or he wanted me to be minnesota senior senator. [laughter] [applause] host: well, he gave you the right advice. and you do the right thing. what did it mean to you to have the office in the west wing that president carter gave you? no previous vice president had been in the west wing. v.p. mondale: i think that was

your idea. it meant everything, because if you are over in the eeo b, where most of the vice president had been, where hubert was, it they used to say it was like being in baltimore. [laughter] host: some of us spent a lot of time in baltimore. v.p. mondale: it was good for you. [laughter] v.p. mondale: i said nothing like propinquity. i was in this office, maybe five seconds from your office, all of the key presidential aides were right there. we would bump into each other and talk all of the time. i think, at the very center of the white house, is that small west wing. if you are there, i think you are part -- a part of a serious

effort. so it was a big advantage to me, but i think it helped me serve you. host: mr. president, the other thing that you did, besides the west wing idea, and i know you did because you told your staff and your cabinet, i want you to respond to requests from the vice president as if it came from me. and you said, because he knew the experiences of the other vice presidents. that was the right thing to do. that message came through. thank you for that. pres. carter: that was important because, in the past, quite often, the chief of staff or someone like that saw the vice president as a challenge to their authority. i knew that could happen with my staff. it was clear to me that everybody that worked in the white house should look upon me as the ultimate voice, but along with me, chris mondale.

they also knew that. they also knew that the -- that you are the chief of staff for mondale, and i wanted you to feel that you worked for me and not just him. host: and i did, and you made sure of that. [laughter] pres. carter: that's true. [applause] when jodie got an order or suggestion from fits, they knew it was the same as coming from me. i don't know that we had any other unpleasant disagreements. -- disagreements because of that. host: it made a huge difference. pres. carter: humphrey had been forbidden initiative to going to members of congress and talking about executive affairs. i changed that, as well. i never had a meeting with any foreign leader from which chris mondale was excluded. and i never had a meeting with a member of congress from which he was excluded. one of the things that i was

concerned about this disharmony that existed before and now among the members of the national security staff. because the vice president had gotten an office in the secretary of state and defense, sometimes the head of intelligence agencies. we met every friday morning to discuss every possible issue that might come up the following weekend in foreign affairs. he would take notes, we would meet wednesday morning with the secretary of defense in the secretary of state to make sure they were doing what we had decided. and chris mondale was always an integral part of that meeting. -- fritz mondale was always an

integral part of that meeting. president. -- as far as i know, he was like another president. that is what i wanted. host: he thought that -- pres. carter: i know he did. [laughter] pres. carter: there was one thing that he did that exceeded his authority. [laughter] pres. carter: whenever there was a chance for me to go to norway -- [laughter] pres. carter: -- i was always excluded from consideration. and, the first thing i knew, fritz would say, i have just returned from norway, and i say, i was just planning on going myself. [laughter] he would give me a thorough report on what was going on. host: you will be pleased to know that the foreign minister of norway and the ambassador is here this evening, and they can arrange the trip. [laughter] [applause] host: can you please stand? there we are. [applause]

pres. carter: if you ask anybody from those ancient days back in the 1970's and so forth, they don't know that i was president. [laughter] host: this is a tough evening. v.p. mondale: he can do that to you. host: we are going to shift gears a little bit here, mr. president. in the introduction to your marvelous, new book, "a full life," and let me just give that a plug, you should all read "a full life" by jimmy carter -- carter. you quote in the introduction mondale's summary of your years in office, "we told the truth,

we obeyed the law, and we kept the peace." you added, "and we promoted human rights." thank you very much. [applause] we all remember how you embraced human rights so firmly and consistently. we became known, in parts of the world, in ways that we had not report, because of that. and that is still true in many parts of the world. what was the motivation that made human rights such a priority? and if you would, what do you see is the largest human rights issue in the world today? pres. carter: to go back to when i was a child, i grew up in a community where my family was billy white family there. so i grew up in a group of about 215 african-americans. so my whole life was shaped by african-american culture. as i got older, i realized that there was a great deal of

discrimination. they could not vote, serve on a jury, they had inferior skills, and so forth. that is the origin of it. i paid no attention to the racial segregation or discrimination. i have always been a champion of human rights in a small way. when i got to be president, i pointed this out as one of my goals as president. i saw, soon, that is resonated in russia with the jewish russians that wanted to come out, and also one quick example in latin america. when i became president, almost every country in south america was a military dictatorship. columbia, peru, argentina, uruguay, brazil, so forth. the institution of the human rights policy there, and our support for it, the condemnation

of oppression, made it possible for every country in south america to become a democracy, and they did it within five years. [applause] i think the practical results very much pleased me while i was president, although it was still looked upon by some as a weakness instead of a strength. to answer your question, i think the worst worldwide human oppression now is against women and girls. there is no doubt about that. [applause] including an our own country. we don't have some of the problems, but we have now more slavery than ever existed in the 18th and 19th century in the world. atlanta happens to be the number one trading post in america for slavery. host: really? pres. carter: we have 200 people

every month sold into slavery in atlanta. and the reason is that it has the largest and busiest airport on earth, and a lot of the passengers who come in on delta, girls with brown and black skin. the new york times, in a very long article, which said that a black or brown skinned girl in atlanta could be bought by a brothel owner for $1000. and a lot of the girls are sold into sexual slavery. this same thing happens in our universities now with oppression or sexual abuse of girls, and also in our military. i think it, last year, 15,000 cases of sexual abuse took place in the military. and very seldom is a person prosecuted or punished for rape even in the military or

university system. so we have a long way to go. not only in this country but around the world. [applause] host: thank you for your leadership. vice president mondale, you were a partner in this effort to promote human rights. in the balky case, meeting with the south african leadership on apartheid, trying to save the vietnamese boat people who were dying at sea. do you want to talk about any of those issues or others? v.p. mondale: these were all issues that you were directly involved in. we talked about them, and i would pick up various of them. particularly the ones requiring travel, rest, organization, and trying to add my help to them. the boat people, a horrible scandal.

particularly in southeastern asia, we thought we had clear evidence that the government of the south vietnamese was pushing citizens of chinese extraction particularly out to sea, sometimes charging them for the honor of being kicked out. they would often get into boats that were unseaworthy. thousands lost their lives at sea. the u.n. was saying this was just poverty. there wasn't any of that. so we decided we needed to make an issue out of this. the navy did not want to pick up -- remember we talked about that? the navy was hanging back,

again, as it always does -- [laughter] so the navy agreed to pick up people, saved a lot of lives, and we set up a you conference in geneva on the boat people, and we were able to get a strong resolution there. and we set up an international system, took most of them but some 20 or 30 nations also participated in a meaningful way, and i think the whole world felt better about it. i think the united states looked pretty good at that time. i would like to see us get involved, now, little more fully. [applause] pres. carter: after the vietnam war, the refugees from vietnam and cambodia were being

persecuted, even assassinated, if they were found to be loyal to us during the war. so we began to receive these people after they were screened. as a lesson for europe, we were taking around 12,000 a month. they made wonderful citizens for the united states all over. [applause] host: president carter, one of the most difficult, and i think frustrating experiences in your tenure, was when the iranians seized hostages in tehran. and, even though they were not released until you left office, the release was the work of your administration. now, president obama has secured an agreement with iran to prevent the creation of a nuclear weapon for at least a decade.

how do you view that agreement in terms of what it means for peace in the middle east and what it might mean for the future of iran, internally? pres. carter: what many people do not realize was, when the shah was overthrown, immediately, we established relationships with the revolutionary government. that was the government to whom i credited the hostages being taken. i believe, then and now, that we should deal with the country with whom we disagree, and not just build a barrier to exacerbate the situation. i have been long awaiting the time when the united states would have talks with iran. i think what john kerry did -- i discussed it with him this afternoon, among other things -- what president obama did was the right thing, and i hope and pray that the agreement we have worked out with iran about

nuclear weapons will prevail, and that they will honor their commitments. i think it is a wonderful thing, and i hope the country will get behind it, and the iranians will comply. [applause] host: do you want to add anything to that, mr. vice president? v.p. mondale: no, i agree. i agree. it looks to me like the president is gaining a majority support in the united states. the momentum is flowing to him because he is providing excellent and needed leadership. [applause] host: mr. president, you were known to a lot of us for taking on a lot of tough issues. no tough issue was safe that came near your desk. [laughter] your achievements have not always been fully recognized,

but just to look back on it, you brought peace to the middle east in camp david. [applause] you put the country on the path toward energy independence. [applause] you brought inflation under control, and it has remained under control for 30 plus years. [indiscernible] you appointed paul volker -- i remember that very well. and then came panama, which was one of the toughest issues any president -- five of your predecessors had failed to solve that problem with the panama canal. but you took it on, and by all accounts, the canal today is a huge success. in terms of our security, economically, in every possible way. do you have any reflections on

that and how tough it was? pres. carter: it was the most difficult issue i faced in my life. even more difficult than the -- then being elected president. it was the most courageous decision made by a u.s. congress in history. for instance, there were 20 senators who voted for the canal treaties in 1978 who were up for reelection that year. only seven came back. the attrition rate was almost as great in 1980. [laughter] i think this has been one of the best examples on the sincerity and the competence of the united states in supporting human rights of a tangible nature that i can remember. because, to give away the canal to use, was reagan's expression, was a crime against the united states. but in my opinion, it was the right thing to do.

if you remember, reagan almost overthrew gerald ford as a republican nominee in 1976, and allow the issue was reagan's condemnation a move toward the panama canal treaties. but i had bipartisan support, and the boards that dealt with it, undecided senators, finally got enough to get things past. it was good. it was still considered to be an unpopular deal in the year 2000. -- deal. when the year 2000 came, and it was time to turn over the canal to the panamanians, the president decided not to go down there, and the vice president did not go down there, and the secretary of state decided not to go down there. for the first time, they asked me to go down there. [laughter] host: sounds like a job for a vice president. v.p. mondale: the vice president -- pres. carter: the vice president did not want to go.

a little bit later, when we decided to expand the canal, there was a ceremony down there and, once again, the incoming vice president asked me to go to represent the united states, so i have been honored twice since i left the white house. [laughter] host: congratulations. pres. carter: thank you. v.p. mondale: i told a story today, an earlier conference, about how we were trying to get all of those senators who had campaigned against the treaty. and about senator hayakawa who ran it on the grounds of "it is ours, we stole it fair and square." [laughter] he told me, maybe i can support the treaty, but the president doesn't have good advice and maybe if he would take my advice, i can vote for it.

so i ran for the phone, and called you, and we got him on the phone right away, and we went over the information, and he said, yes, i think i can vote. shouldn't we meet biweekly or something? and you say, let's not do that, we would probably need to meet more often. [laughter] host: and i think he was inciting go wasn't tea? -- wasn't he? host: you spent a lot of time up there working on the ratification. as you put it, that was grinding hard rock. v.p. mondale: it was. a number of senators who would lose the next election, many of whom knew that -- i remember tom mcintyre, he said i will vote

for this, this is right, but he said don't expect me back. i heard several others that told me that. it was not popular. it was a strange issue for me. usually, it is a senator wanting to do something that is safe and not right. [laughter] v.p. mondale: in this case, they knew the vote against it was wrong, so even though it affected their own future, they voted right. it was an inspiring time to be up there. host: president carter, u, roseland, and your team at the carter center have done an extraordinary job for 35 years. [applause] exactly. you said the gold standard for former presidents, no question.

i would be grateful, and i know the audience would, if they could hear you talk a little bit about the kinds of issues the center is doing, what your hopes and aspirations are for it. what is the carter center all about? pres. carter: primarily three things. one is peace. another is democracy and freedom. the third is the alleviation of suffering. the carter center is free to go to meet with leaders around the world with whom the united states will not relate. kind of outcast people. in nepal, where the maoists were -- maoists won the vote in were -- in 2008, were condemned ahead of time as terrorists. and north korea, i have been there several times to work at deals with the government. we met with thought i and hamas.

quite often, the outcast in international consideration, you might be a pariah, is quite often the one who is causing an unnecessary war, who is causing a problem with human rights. so we'll write to them and try to change that policy. i never do go into a troubled area without getting ahead of time permission from the white house. sometimes reluctantly permission, but i always get mission. i always made a report to the white house. anyway, that is one thing. the second thing is, monitoring elections. we find out much right to negotiate peace, we often say, when we have an honest election? and i'm sure the people of your country will choose the right person to be a leader. both antagonists know that they are going to be the leader. that is the principle of politics, self-delusion. [laughter]

so we began to monitor elections. we just finished our 100th troubled election in guyana. we are now working on miramar. about two thirds of our total budget, each year, is devoted to what the world health organization calls neglected tropical diseases. and we will treat, this year, about 71 million people so they will not go blind or die from a disease that is no longer known in the developed world. health care is our primary way to expend money. one example of that is guinea worm. which some of you may have heard. we started out with 20 countries that had guinea worm and 26,300 villages. and 3.6 million cases. at this moment, we have 15 cases in the world. [applause]

so that is what we are working on. but there we go into a country and work side-by-side with the people in those little villages, and it gives us an insight into political affairs in their country, and that is what we share with our leaders in washington. host: it is extraordinary work. one of the things, in addition to that, that i admire is that you planned ahead. you have endowed the work of the center, your grandson is the chairman. pres. carter: he is going to be the chairman. host: didn't want to rush you. he is going to be the chairman. you are planning for this work to the lawn. pres. carter: we have a legal partnership with emory university. they have one half of the board members and we have half. we have organizations around the world with leaders. we have about 30 leaders in latin america who have been a

president or prime minister may work in partnership with us. we have a record of holding elections and we have an adequate endowment to tide us over when we are not there to raise money. we have delays -- we have to raise a lot of money. host: you and i were chatting earlier, before we started, and you are going to hold the annual meeting of the carter center in annapolis, next year. you said i could invite everybody here to attend, right? [laughter] [applause] you and the vice president being there would be a great event. we were going to have some questions, but we don't have any microphones, so. [laughter] that is the little issue there. i think what we should probably do is wrap this up. mr. president, i would like to ask you -- invite you to say any final words about the vice president or anything you would like at this point. pres. carter: i think what fritz and i did together was

historic. it changed the basic structure of the executive branch of government, to bring the vice president in as a full party with the president. that had never been done before. i think the reason it was successful that every expectation i had for that partyship was never betrayed by fritz mondale. he was a perfect partner, and i don't think we ever had a serious argument during the four years, which was a better relationship than me and my wife. [laughter] [applause] thank you. host: mr. vice president, you get the last word because this is your day. v.p. mondale: we are just so thrilled to have the president with us. i know this was a great evening for all of us. you can feel it. the accomplishments, the carter

administration, carter/mondale administration, really are an inspiration. we are thrilled that you are here, and i am glad to be a part of it. we love you. pres. carter: thank you. [applause] [cheering] >> if you like american history tv, keep up with us during the week on facebook, twitter, and youtube. learn about what happened this day in history and see preview clips of upcoming programs,

follow us at c-span history -- @ cspanhistory. >> each week, american history's real america brings archival films that provide context for public affairs issues today. ♪ [applause] ♪ >> the debate over the wilderness act was a relatively peaceful prelude to a new era of environmental activism, cultural transformation, and social protest. >> people became more outspoken, wanted to become more involved, unwilling to trust the government. >> the plan is to spray new brush and tree sprouts with chemicals.

>> our western camp grounds have been taken over by what may best be described as colonies of people, hippie types. >> well, it is a time of crisis, i guess you might say. a time of uncertainty, anyway. ♪ >> i now to -- now turn to a subject that, next to our desire for peace, may become a major concern of the american people. it is a cause of particular concern to young americans, because they, more than we will reap the consequences of our failure to act on programs needed now if we are to prevent disaster later. >> clean air, clean water, open spaces, these showed, once again, be the birthright of every american. >> the love affair started

ending in the 60 -- 1960's. but the divorce did not occur until the 1970's. with the monongahela and bitterroot. >> two forests that caused attention on the service. on bitterroot, timber managers were cutting on slopes and terracing the hillside to retain the slow -- retain the soil. >> they thought to maximize future growth, let's terrace those lands like rice patty feels almost due in china. >> people wouldn't settle for tearing down the mountain to get the trees to grow. >> in the early 1970's, -- reentered the political stage once more and did so through the voice of his only son. in the bitterroot valley, gifford bryce denounced the

forest service in his father's name. >> he went to the bitterroot and they took them to a clear-cut called the oh my gosh clear-cut, because when you come around the corner and you look at it, you go all my god because it is a high on a hill, and the road comes into the middle of it. >> i have been back to those terrace landscapes. the fact is, they worked. they just looked terrible, looked very destructive. >> in west virginia, foresters on the monongahela plan dude regenerate valuable hardwoods, removing lesser quality trees. >> people in some of these critical communities could see these clear cuts their kitchen window. >> culturally, it made a lot of sense, but it was like poking the public in the eye. >> some local hunting groups were really angered at an

extensive set of clear cutting that the forest service was doing. these were turkey hunters. >> they would go out to this favorite hunting spot and find it had been completely clear-cut. the administrators of monongahela at that time said, don't worry, we know it's past. let us do it. in five years, we will show you an improved forest. that did not sell. >> you can watch archival films on public affairs in their entirety on our weekly series reel america, saturday at 10:00 p.m. and sunday at 4:00 p.m. eastern. that is here on american history tv. ♪

>> tonight on lectures in history, christopher newport university professor jonathan white teaches a class about the 1864 presidential election. here's a preview. >> the republicans are very critical of the rebellion, right? they have a lot to say about the people of civil war and evils of rebellion. what do the democrats have to say about the rebellion? >> like eli said in the third resolution, it talks about a shameful violation of the constitution, and they talk about holding a revolutionary to resist this power that

lincoln is using. >> yeah. they are more upset with lincoln, right? they are in political opposition, so they won't praise lincoln, which is understandable. but notice they have harsher wars for lincoln, much harsher words, and -- words for lincoln, much harsher words and nothing criticizing the confederacy. when i read through this, i do not really see any criticism of the confederacy, who is up in arms. i see an olive branch appeal, hey, let's get together and have a convention of the states and negotiate peace, and bring you back in the union. but the democrats don't understand the confederates are not going to compromise. they do not want to compromise or come back into the union. they want to be their own pro-slavery republic. so i think there's a naivety on the part of the democrats here, and also, a sense that they see a connection between themselves and the confederates, whereas the republicans see the confederates as the enemy.

to the points that jeremiah and kim pointed out, when they talk about revolution here, they are saying, if lincoln keeps violating our rights, we have a right to revolution. we have a right to overthrow lincoln's administration. because the democrats had nothing bad to say about the confederates, rumors started spreading in the newspapers that the confederates had written this platform for them, and in fact, the new york times said the convention was made up entirely of "black carted traders." so this treason issue will be central to this election. >> learn more about the 1864 presidential election, tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern, 5:00 pacific on american history tv. s american artifacts visits museums and hiic