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washington journal doctor doctor kristin englund, she's an infectious disease physician at the cleveland clinic. joining us from your studios in cleveland, ohio. thank you for being with us again. >> good morning steve, thank you so much for having me on. >> i want to begin more broadly on where we are at as school begins to and for summer vacations, summer camps, graduations, family travel, where are we from your perspective in this pandemic? >> well, thankfully we're seeing numbers across the country that are at the lowest of any time in the last at least six months. so numbers are continuing to decline of new cases. and that certainly great news. we are still seeing pockets of infection though, so there are some areas where there are still seeing a significant number of patients in the

hospitals and increasing numbers of cases. so i think it's really important for everyone in the country to know what it's like in your neck of the woods and know whether it's a safe area for you to be participating in some of the funds, summer activities that we are all looking forward to but, is it really right in your neighborhood at this point in time? >> if you had covid and recovered, do you still need the vaccine? >> yes. so, it's certainly important. we know that there is a strong benefit to natural immunity and we think it probably lasts at least a year. we've only had this virus around for a little over a year so we're not sure how long that's going to last. but it's still important to get the vaccine because that gives you a slightly different kind of an immunity, it may persist even longer the natural immunity. so, absolutely. give yourself every opportunity that you can to avoid getting

this infection, potentially a second time. >> and you're part of the cleveland clinic initiative called the recovery clinic, which is dealing with the long term implications of coronavirus. can you explain? >> sure. well, unfortunately what we are seeing is not only the acute effects of covid-19 where we are all familiar with that with the respiratory illnesses and the devastating fatigue that puts patients in hospitals and potentially even on respirators. but as the virus itself then starts to move away from the body and patients are no longer infectious, unfortunately, there are some long term symptoms that can persist and we've seen patients in a recovery clinic that have been dealing with this for a little over a year. so, even though patients get over that initial illness, those symptoms will continue on and that's called long covid or post acute squall lay of sars-cov-2.

this is something that's very significant and i think it's going to have a significant impact on the country from a financial standpoint, from an insurance standpoint, from a work standpoint as these patients can oftentimes not even be able to return to work. >> because you know, we're just about a month away from president biden's self imposed target of 70% of americans, adult americans with at least one vaccine. will we reach that benchmark by july 4th? >> well i think it's going to take a big push for us to be able to reach that benchmark. right now, we're not about 60% of patients who have had at least one vaccine in less than that obviously for folks who have completed the two vaccines series if their vaccine that they required to vaccines. we're seeing decreasing numbers of people being vaccinated every day, so there's a waning interest in it. and, you know, that certainly very concerning because as we see more and more people not

interested in getting the vaccine, they're going to be more at risk say in the fall and winter and we can see second -- fourth and fifth surges of this disease as those who are not vaccinated are starting to get ill again. >> there are, as you well know, several new millionaires in ohio. it is an incentive to have those people get vaccinated, how is that working? >> it's brilliant! you know, i think there are a couple of different things you can do. you can either use the carrot or the stick. and governor dewine has obviously chosen to use the very positive reinforcement and yes, there are a couple of millionaires that are out there. one is from shaker heights, which is where i live and that's absolutely wonderful. and then he's also in those kids who are 12 to 17 proposed full tuition scholarships for ohio schools, for ohio colleges. i mean, come on, you can get a full right to college just for

doing something that's going to keep you healthy. so, i think it's a great idea and hopefully, that and many other initiatives that are out there right now. we're going to encourage people to do the right thing. >> vermont has the highest vaccination rate at about 71%, but states like alabama and mississippi, idaho, their percent is well below 40%. in mississippi, it is 30%. doctor englund, i want to get your reaction from the governor, he was on television yesterday talking about why mississippi leads the states with the lowest vaccination rates. >> why is mississippi so far behind the rest of the country? >> first of all, thanks for having me on, jackets was a pleasure to come on and talk to you about these very in issues. let me begin by saying that i believe the real vaccine works. i believe it safe, i believe it's effective. i took my first dose in january, as did my wife on tv, live and

have encouraged mississippians to do the same. but i also want to point out, jake, that what president biden's goal for july 4th or otherwise are arbitrary, to say the least. but here is the reality. the fact is, for over a year, we tried to focus our goals on reducing hospitalizations, reducing the number of individuals in icu beds because we think the most important thing is that if you get the better with good, quality care that you receive the cooler. as our peak, we had 1144 individuals in the hospital. today, we have 131. we are down 90%. we had 2400 cases per day over seven-day period, over the last seven days, we've had barely 800 cases in total over those seven days. and so, for that entire year period, the goal was to reduce the number of cases and we've been successful at doing that.

the question is, why haven't been successful doing that? we've had 1 million mississippians that have gone the vaccine. but we've also had 320,000 mississippians that have tested positive for the virus. many people believe that somewhere between four and five times more people that have gone the virus, that have not tested have actually received -- have gotten the virus. and so, we've got somewhere probably between 1 million or so mississippians that have a natural immunity and because of that, there is very little virus when our state. we are still working to get the vaccine distributed and will continue to do so. >> that's from catherine reeves, republican mississippi and state of the union, dr. englund, what you hearing in his response? >> well i'm hearing a lot of different points of view. as far as why folks in mississippi are seeing decreasing numbers. so, first of all, congratulations to him for getting the vaccine, i think that's very important, i think that's a very important message

for the folks in mississippi to receive. but they also need to continue to hear that vaccines are strongly recommended and while you want to see the number of cases decline, the only ways that you're going to see those cases decline are if people continue to mask and social distance or if they are getting vaccinated. so, if we want to be able to open up our societies again, as we all do. we all want to be able to participate in so many more things, whether it be sporting events or going to the movie theater or going to restaurants, it's going to involve everybody getting vaccinated or at least as many people who possibly can. now, when we talk about the natural immunity, from the work that i'm doing and looking at long covid, i certainly don't want people to get natural immunity. i don't want people to get infected because you really run a significant risk that even if you weren't acutely ill or

severely ill at the beginning, you can still have long term effects from covid. and we are learning so much more about this but in looking at the literature and also the cases that i'm seeing at the recovery clinic, only 35% of our patients were ever hospitalized. so 65% of the patients who've had persistent illness were never sick enough at the beginning to need to be hospitalized. so they might have had fever, some fatigue systems but they were able to stay home. and yet months later, they are continuing to see the effects of that disease. so, natural immunity while it sounds wonderful can also lead to long term symptoms that we really don't want people to have. >> our conversation with dr. kristin englund, she's joining us from the cleveland clinic. an expert and infectious diseases, or phone lines are open, we're dividing lines regionally, two zero to 48 1000, those of you in eastern part of the country, 2:02 seven four

eight 8001, the next call is from david new york, jeff, good morning. >> hi, good morning steve, thank you for taking my call. doctor englund, first i want to thank you everyone -- very much for everything you do. it's just fantastic. i'm so happy that you are doing what you are doing. i have a question that maybe it may be out of your wheel house, but i think it be very important at the public community be more active in considering the funding for long term public health. the problem of course is -- [inaudible] congress refuses to bring [inaudible] up what it should be. and, it would be nice to continue with the same plan. >> jeff, your breaking up a little bit but i think we got the essence of the question. from your perspective a doctor englund, funding, federal

funding for public health initiatives? >> jeff, i couldn't agree with you more. thank you for your statement. i think that the covid pandemic has absolutely highlighted the poor infrastructure of our public health and how that has declined over the last many decades. and i think we have counted on a number of private organizations and state organizations and others that were not necessarily cohesively tied together. where are public health infrastructure is really supposed to be that network that is supposed to be able to help pull us together during something like a national and international crisis like we are seeing now. this is a wake up call and i am certainly hoping that the federal government is listening and looking at this, i think those of us on the ground have been crying for it for a little cooler and this gives us a lot more to be able to fight with it so that we can get that

public health reinvigorated again so that we are not caught flat-footed during the next pandemic. >> doctor englund, to comments on our twitter pages. this is from, jan who says the vaccine is way cheaper then and they spent in the icu. but there's another perspective from sheila who says, it is shameful that you don't mention the fact that these vaccines are an experiment on the world. nobody knows what's the long term effects will be and it won't be approved until 2023. so two different perspectives. >> i think this is where we can see where the numbers of people getting vaccinated or not up to 100 percent, as we would certainly hope for. i agree, having seen people of all ages, of all demographics, of every walk of life in the intensive care unit on ventilators fighting for the lives, i would try anything to try and keep people from having to suffer through what they

have been suffering through. the vaccines, and you to implore you are very safe. this technology that mrna vaccine technology that's at least present in at least two of the vaccines we're using has been looked at for some time, for many years. looking for different types of vaccines are different types of bacteria that they can be -- viruses that can be using this against. so, the technology and using it against this type of ready is -- vaccine is new. but learning about the technology is not something that is brand spanking new either. you know, the studies that were done looking at these vaccines involved initially tens of thousands of people. so each of the pharmaceutical companies used anywhere from 20 to 40,000 people that were vaccinated and trial in these vaccines and so, there were a lot of people that were involved. as of the timeframe in developing the vaccine, i know there's a lot of concerns and

questions about that. since the technology was not necessarily new, that allowed us to move into starting up these vaccines in rapid fashion. the funding from the federal government allowed pharmaceutical companies to not have to scrap. this vaccine testing started. be able to get this and get to try to get this vaccine testing started. and then that some companies, or the pharmaceutical companies were given money to be able to produce these vaccines, even when they haven't been trialed yet. so much the trials were approved, and approved by the fda, they had millions of doses ready to be able to deliver. so the time in the lab, the time in the trials, looking at this, was actually not substantially shortened. it was the founding period and the rollout period that was shortened. so i am exceptionally confident about how safe these vaccines are, and absolutely positive

that we are saving millions of lives around the world by getting vaccinated. >> and when we talk to you last spring, in the spring of 2020, you said that you are optimistic that a vaccine would be in place by the end of the year. were you surprised? >> oh, i think there's a -- a huge jump between optimism and religion, and i really, really wanted vaccine by the end of the year. and it was exceptionally pleased that i got my first shot december 18th. so it was, it was remarkable. but, boy, i tell you. seeing all of the work that was being done collaboratively across so many different pharmaceutical companies and countries and research facilities, everybody was pulling together. this was not a competitive type of a process, this was really a collaborative process that helped us to get to the point where we are now. >> and quick question from

another viewer, saying, would you recommend a vaccine passport? >> oh, so -- boy, that is a political ball right there, as far as a passport goes. i certainly believe in private companies being able to make the decision that as to whether they will have people coming in to their restaurants or into their hospitals or into their sports facilities. you know, putting requirements on that people have vaccinations, that's their prerogative. as far as the public domain, i think that's a bit more political, and i wouldn't want to weigh in on that. but i think, certainly, every private organization has the right to be able to say, just as, you know, a sporting event can say, you need to have a ticket to be able to come here or a restaurant can say, you know, no shirt, no shoes, no service. for the reasons, they want to

make sure that their clientele are in a safe environment. >> we'll go to john next, in [inaudible] , wisconsin, good morning. john, you with us? >> yes, i am. >> you're on the air, good morning. >> okay. you know, she's kind of reluctant to say some things about what the governor said. the governor actually told people and untruth. there's no one that's immune from these fires. there's no one on this earth. and he said that he had people that were immune, and that's not true. they're all susceptible of getting it. >> john, thank you. doctor ellen englund, not was in response to what we heard earlier from governor tate reeves of mississippi. >> well yes. i believe that if people have had virus before, there is a

level of immunity. is it complete? no, that's why we do recommend that people to get the vaccine, and the vaccines have, at this point in time, proven to be about 95% effective. so certainly by adding natural immunity to the vaccine, that certainly helpful. you're right, nothing is 100 percent. and we are also looking at the prospect of variants out there. and i think that's another very concerning event that is happening, all across the world, and it's going to certainly have an impact on our sell us, especially as we begin to look at the fall, as we get into more of the viral season, when people are starting to go indoors more, and we know that viruses spread much more easily in the fall and winter time. so i do think that's going to be a time of concern, and when we learn a lot more about this virus itself, the effectiveness, completely, of the vaccine, and also the impact of variants. >> and because of those variants, where you personally,

and others who had the vaccine, about six months ago, will you need a booster shot, and if so, when? >> oh, those are wonderful questions. and i don't have an answer for that. but will we need a booster, i think we probably will. especially as we start to see more and more variants around. our -- and unfortunately, the more virus there is around, the more variants there will be. so the more we don't reach that level of 100 percent of people getting vaccinated, what fires is around and our community is potentially to mutate and make it worse, and make it likely for the rest of us who were vaccinated that we are going to need to get booster vaccines. so is it going to be like a flu vaccine, where we need a yearly update? i think that's a potential, but we don't know right now, and i think we are, again, going to have to see, really, what kind of variants are prevalent in our community. right now it looks like at

least was here in the united states, that the current vaccines are able to handle those. but this virus can change pretty quickly. so we'll have to see what's going on in september and october. >> and lynn, with this question for you, doctor englund, saying do you agree that the unvaccinated should wear masks indoors? >>. only in fact, are vaccinated at this point of time, especially when you're in a kind of setting indoors, where we know that the air cannot circulate as well, people tend not to be able to maintain that six foot distance when you are indoors, it is important to be wearing that mask, and protecting themselves, but also protecting those around them from getting exposed to any virus that they may be carrying. so there are so many benefits to yourself and also to the community to getting vaccinated. so i strongly encourage everyone to consider doing that, and not only for themselves, but for those around them in

the community. >> you were quoted in the [inaudible] affiliate in nbc affiliate in cleveland for how to safely plan for graduation parties. and we also have a tweet from mary, saying, my neighbor had a huge kids birthday party yesterday. it kind of worries me because most of the kids were under the age of 12, and i know despite a lot of lodging from people around them, a lot of adults here refused to get vaccinated. >> oh! yes so yes, we are starting to see a prime time period where people are just tired of being under quarantine. and they want to get out, and they want to celebrate all the things, especially that they weren't able to celebrate last year, and kind of delaying all of that joy and wanting to see it now. but we've got to still be smart. i know we all want to get out and celebrate, and for the situation where there are kids under the age of 12, you know, there is -- there is not approval for a vaccine for them yet at this point in time. so no child under the age of 12

has been vaccinated. they should be wearing masks. and really should not be congregating in large areas like that. certainly, we've talked about having small pods and having small parties with people and family and friends that you have had kind of in that kind of protective part, is very reasonable. but be patient -- we've got, you know, i think, this thursday, the fda is going to start looking at some of the data that is coming out for vaccinating those children 11 and under. this is definitely going to be in place, i think, by the fall. we have to, because we have to be able to get children safely back to school in the fall. so let's not have a resurgence of infections in our youngest at this point in time while we are waiting for them to get vaccinated. so, you know, please be smart. and again, for the adults who are choosing not to get vaccinated, okay, if you don't want to do it for yourself,

think about doing it for your children, who are not able to get vaccinated at this point in time. protect them and protect everyone around you. >> our next caller is from owens mills, maryland. keith, good one. >> hi, doctor englund. i have a question about [inaudible] animal done on mrna vaccine. a two part question, actually. is there any studies that are done on a three immune [inaudible] shots? thank, you all take a call. >> thank you, keith. >> thank you, keith. absolutely. so the mrna technology was looked at a lot in animal studies from, and again, for a number of different infections and not just covid. we were looking at it -- my goodness, we were looking at mrna vaccines even for hiv a number of years back. just the technology was not right for that virus. so there have been numerous animal studies, most lee rat studies, looking at that. and like i said, well like you

said, while it's felt to be effective and not showing long term symptoms, it just wasn't right for some of those other viral infections, as far as being able to cause long term benefits. the second part of the story, as far as looking at autoimmune disorders -- boy, that's a hot topic right now. it certainly, what we are seeing -- we are seeing a lot of autoimmune and inflammatory responses to covid, and that's what we think a lot of the post covid or long covid symptoms are coming from. it's not the virus. the virus itself has long gone. but what we're seeing is the bodies body's continued response, and inflammatory response, to the virus and also starting to attack itself. so the long covid symptoms were very similar to what we are seeing in a chronic fatigue syndrome, and boy -- that's a syndrome that has been somewhat

neglected for the last number of decades as well. so each time that we start looking at those post viral inflammatory changes, and i think right now the federal government is putting a lot of interest and thankfully a lot of research funding toward that. so we can better understand this. and hopefully, be able to help a lot of other diseases, other than just the post covid. >> one of the issues that we have been hearing, and it's been on social media, is that the vaccine changes your dna. could you address that issue? >> so it absolutely cannot change your dna. the mrna is a protein that, when it gets into your cell, simply remains in the -- the outer part of the cell, or what's called the cytoplasm. it does not interact with the dna whatsoever. it's called it simply uses some of the machine work off the sell to make more proteins, and cells make proteins all the time. so we are simply giving it a

code so that it can make protein, so that it can make these proteins that look like the spike protein, and then the spike protein moves to the outer part of the, of the cell itself, and then encourages an antibody response or an inflammatory response to it. so and mrna doesn't even integrate into the dna in any way, shape or form. it lasts a short period of time, and then simply, as the sole dies off, it goes away as well. so it cannot change your dna. and i've heard that as a, as a concern, from many of my patients. and i really need for that to be dispelled at this point. >> from wisconsin, rapids, wisconsin, roseann, good morning. >> yes. now the controversy over whether it was in a wet market or came from a laboratory. my question being, when you're messing with these very dangerous viruses in research in labs, why do you not have a

vaccine in the chambers in case something like this were to happen, however -- however it occurred? i'm just wondering why, in all of these situations, when you're messing with viruses and diseases, and then you have to scramble, scramble to come up with a vaccine which cost a lot, a lot of lives? >> absolutely. >> i would like your opinion on that. >> thank you, reason doctor englund. >> yeah, roseann, i agree. this is a very difficult situation to try and understand if this came de novo from the wet market and from the animal virus mutations that certainly there was no way to be prepared for that. as far as where this came from the lab, it i think we have a lot of information still waiting to come out from that. i think serious questions are

being raised with regard to that and i think a year ago, i had said absolutely not, this is something that adequate naturally. but unfortunately, i think we're getting more and more information out that this may have come from a lab. so i certainly can state with any kind of authority or any further knowledge that this is where it came from. but yes, if you're working in a laboratory and trying to create a new virus, you know, could they have had a vaccine at that point in time? well, this was a brand-new virus so they hadn't even created that virus at that point, even if that versus what it was. so it's difficult to create a vaccine for something that isn't even present, and the sars sars-cov-1 is different enough from sars-cov-2 that a vaccine that gets that would not be against the current fires against that. . >> a guest is with the department of infectious diseases that the cleveland canyon. she earned a medical degree

from the university of cincinnati. also residents at the northwest university hospital. run incidents bay, michigan, is next, for doctor kristin englund. >> good morning, doctor. thank you for intellectual capacity. i respect what your. say i'm a retired teacher, and the thing that i would like to see, and i think this would be a prime time to do it -- at the middle school especially at the municipal level and it takes individuals like you who can inspire some of the curriculum's to revolve around the medical field going forward and teach kids what they must protect themselves against going forward, especially kids in the middle school who by the time they get into the mid twenties, early thirties are reluctant to take the shot because, well, you know, it's the old macho figure. hey, you can't touch me.

but, i'd like to have your opinion as to whether or not you can do that and i would inspire your community to began to surface that and i really appreciate that, thank you. >> thank you ron. >> ron, teachers are brilliant. absolutely brilliant and thank you for your service at this point. so, no, that's a great idea, this is an opportune time for us to get in, even as early as kindergarten and with some of the educators here at the cleveland clinic, i was able to, with my daughter, develop a series of programs we gave for the k through six curriculum and also for the seventh grade through 12th graders. and it was wonderful. i tell, you these students who are just so eager to learn and, you know, you can adjust the curriculum to it so they can start learning the very basics about washing hands and how things are transmitted and to sneeze into your elbow, things that are very universally important, not just for covid

but also for influenza and just how to be healthier young students. as we got into the curriculum and the high school, we were able to delve more into the basic of viruses and virology and how mutations can walk or. but i think the curriculum's were very well received with that. and i agree. what a great opportunity for science teachers to be able to look at this and then also as we talk about global health, to be able to follow the effects of the pandemic as it moves across different countries in the impact on the economics and other aspects that it has had across the world. so, it has been a tragic pandemic in a tragic event but let's make the most of it. and let's give our students an opportunity to learn from it. so, we'll work together on and

will make a curriculum. >> in the last 20 years, as you well know, we've dealt with sars, ebola and now coronavirus and there will certainly be another type of public health threat. what lessons can we apply for the future? >> boy, as one of our callers brought up earlier, certainly public health. that this is absolutely highlighted the fact that our public health infrastructure is not strong enough and that we've let it weaken to the point where it was very difficult to be able to pull this all together. so i think that is our number one lesson. number two ways, we are always going to have to be on our toes. i think after ebola, i think the country got a little bit complacent about thinking about what could be impacting us next from a health perspective. we became distracted by a lot of other different things, whether it's finance and politics but, we needed to

always keep the potential for a pandemic in our vision. and i think this is something that it's not unreasonable for us on a yearly basis to at least start going through how we would respond to it. so let's kind of have more games with viruses or bacteria. and i certainly think that is something that we here at the cleveland clinic are going to be doing is that making sure that we keep the books of information that we have well dusted off so that we are prepared and well prepared for what could be coming down the pike. >> more immediately, that public health initiative includes the distribution of vaccines currently here in the u.s. apply to other parts of the world, including to the palestinian territories, to india, to parts of africa. this is jake sullivan, the national security adviser last thursday with that announcement. >> first, our goal and sharing your vaccines is in service of ending the pandemic, globally. our overarching aim is to get

as many safe and effective vaccines to as many people as fast as possible. it's as simple as that. we want to save lives and towards variants that put all of us at risk. perhaps more's important, this is just the right thing to do. thanks to the ingenuity of american scientists and the resilience and commitment of the american people, we're in a position to help others. so we will help others. and as the president has said, the united states will not use its vaccines to secure favors from other countries. next, i want to say a little bit about how we are sharing. we've received requests from all over the world and a number of important factors went into our decision about how to allocate these first 25 million vaccines. these factors included, achieving global coverage, responding to surges and other specific urgent situations and public health needs. and helping as many countries as possible who requested

vaccines. we've also decided to prioritize helping our neighbors. we made the decision to share at least 75% of these vaccines through kovacs. this will maximize the number of vaccines available equitably for all countries and will facilitate sharing with those most at risk. >> from jake sullivan last week, what will this mean for the global challenge of covid-19? >> well, certainly this is going to help save millions of lives as we are able to get vaccine out to those who are at risk in other countries and as devastated as the united states was, we're starting to see even worse situations in certain countries. certainly brazil has had a devastating time, as we are seeing in india right now as well. so, anything that we can do to try and stop the progression of

this disease in other countries is tremendously important. as i mentioned earlier, the more virus that's out there and it's making copies of itself, the more likely there is to be a mutation. so we have to look at this globally because we live in a global world. and a mutation that develops and other countries, myanmar, india, can get on an airplane and come to us here in the united states. so, we need to think about this as stopping this pandemic all around the world because everyone in the world does have an impact on us. >> our guest joining us from cleveland, our next caller is from dayton, ohio, jim, good morning. >> good morning. and doctor, you said originally you were convinced, you are sure that the virus had a curve naturally.

and i'm wondering, now your take is that that might not be the case. so is it true that you came to that conclusion on your own? or were you persuaded by government figures such as doctor fauci that it happened that way? naturally. >> jim, thank you very much. i grew up in beaver creek, so i am very familiar with the dayton, area. so, i will tell you i think initially, i did not feel that there was any potential information or couldn't information that was available a year ago that this would've kind of come out of the laboratory. fairly recently, we are starting to hear a little bit more information and questions and concerns about when initial cases might have been seen in china. you know, if there were truly cases of a viral illness in

november, so a month before was reported to us, i think that's concerning and i think that warrants more i have a look. i think we need to try and understand more about that information and i don't know how much more information we're going to get. but i think in my mind it raises a question. but, to be honest with you at this point in time, whether it came from a lab or it came from the wet market, we need to deal with what we are dealing with now and the effects of this virus, but i think for future, it's going to help us to try and understand how we can respond to this more quickly, how we can understand maybe the effects of wet markets and how they might have an impact on viruses potentially in the

future. so, i'm sorry that's a little bit of a -- kind of a windy answer to you. i have not been necessarily impacted by folks tell me what to think, it's just in looking at the information that's coming out, the timeline is a little confusing. and i think that's where we need to ask some questions. >> and jim, to your point, the former fda commissioner addressing that issue on cbs is fake's the nation, on other topics, here's part of that exchange. >> the whole reason where it starts from is important is not because it could've changed the way the u.s. approach the virus at that time but, for what we do going forward. and so what it sounds like you're saying is that there were mistakes made not out of ill intent, but just to kind of too narrow view to out how to look at these things and we're going to face another one of these, as we surely will, we need to as a country need to broaden our view. >> i think that's right. historically, the view was the cdc has this.

this is responding to a pandemic, an outbreak, whatever sars one, he, bullet zika, or whatever the cdc did. so the tools of national security weren't deeply engaged at the outset. i think going forward now, looking at these kinds of risks, many to judge them through the lens of a national security mindset. public health preparedness is a matter of national security and if you bring the national security officials and at the outset of these kinds of investigations, they look at the mosaic. they look at how totally. they will weigh heavily on the judgments of the virologist and what the sequence tells us. they will look at that is the only piece of it evidence. but i see in emails that fauci was sending back and forth with the scientists, they were debating the characteristics of this sequence. and once they assure themselves that the sequence looked fairly, not normal but there were things that were in it that were things that could be found in nature and could be the result of resort mint in nature. their belief that this could've been an engineered strain started to subside. and that's where you saw. you saw the evolution of that

thinking, but that thinking was derived from looking at the virus itself. >> from cbs is face the nation, let's get back to your phone calls. charles is next in york pennsylvania, good morning. >> good morning. go ahead, charles you are on the air. >> oh, yes. i had the covid-19 and a gentleman donated his plasma. and i've been to the doctors and i would just like to ask about -- and want to thank doctor englund for her service for the country. they told me i was a long-haulers and told me i had no, taste no smell and this is meant for two years. i'm on my way to get the vaccine next week and i want to find out, will that help me? and what are they doing for people who are supposed to be long-haulers. >> charles, thank. you doctor englund.

>> charles, i'm sorry for what you're going through for this point in time. people having the long covid symptoms of the lack of sense of taste and lack of sense of smell is not an uncommon thing. when i looked at the numbers of patients in my first hundred and 50 here, we were seeing about 20 to 30% of patients who were complaining of some kind of thing, whether it was tonight is or ringing in the years or lack of a sense of taste or smell. when the best way to try and overcome that is to work through something that's called training. and this is something that our ear, nose and throat specialist or emt specialists are able to offer. and it's just a long process of going through and smelling different foods that you have a very strong recognition for, whether it be coffee and then telling yourself that's coffee

or going through an orange and telling yourself that's an orange and that's just retraining your memory of what those smells and tastes may be. so that is one thing that our specialists can certainly help for. i'm glad to hear you are going to be getting the vaccine. not a lot of data out there as far as whether it's going to help your symptoms or not. but, certainly there's a lot of anecdotal information out there, so people who are stating that their symptoms improved after getting the covid vaccine. so, anybody who is a long hauler, i absolutely recommend getting the vaccine. eight to protect yourself from getting another infection and down the line, but also with the possibility that you may see some improvement in your symptoms, so good luck to you. >> our next caller is not far from you and cuyahoga falls ohio. kathy, good morning.

>> hi, good morning. hi, good morning. thank you for taking my call. i had a comment and a question. i -- and i hope i remember correctly -- but back in the late 90s, when the bird flu happened, i remember i, want to say remember, the surgeon general saying that they were worried that they could come from poor practices from places like poultry farming, where there wasn't necessarily the best practices, compared to, say, and organic farm or highly [inaudible] to wait and the problems that can come from that. and i was wondering if you knew anything about that, if there is any similar connection. and then, also, i'm pretty sure that i'm a long-hauler also, and i was wondering, do you think it's beneficial to -- do you think, like, with diet, to

prevent inflammation? or does that get in the way of the body doing what it's trying to do to heal? thank you. >> great questions. so, we certainly know that a number of viral infections and viral invitations do come from animal vectors. so birds are often the source of carrying a virus, and then being able to have a mutation occurring in the bird and then having that transmit, to be able to transmit to a human. so it takes the mutation for it to be able to, then, work into the human structure. so whether it's involved with the organic products, necessarily, i'm not sure that i have any information with regards to that. but it is often the case where there are improper practices about whether it be mixing different types of birds and animals together, or improper

handling, so that then it gets transmitted into the humans. so that is not an uncommon way for a number of different viruses to be able to get transmitted into humans. again, i'm sorry to hear about your long covid symptoms. is this does nothing but highlight to people who don't want to get the vaccine that caller after caller are seeing, we are seeing that patients are continuing to have symptoms. and this is not -- these are not minor symptoms, these can be life altering types of symptoms. so yes, i do believe in following specific diets that try to cut down on cut inflammation, our integrative and functional medicine teams through the recovery clinic are very involved in making recommendations on that. there are a lot of things that we have seen from got metabolism impact is impacting heart disease, impacting depression, impacting so many different things. so i have to certainly believe that the inflammation from the

gut may very well persist, especially since a lot of patients, initially, had diarrhea nausea, vomiting type symptoms with covid. so we know that it does impact the gut. now, as far as what kind of diet changes to make? i would suggest that you talk to folks who are experts in looking at that, and how to modify the inflammatory changes within the gi system, and not necessarily trying that on your own, because you want to make sure you are getting plenty of protein, plenty of vitamins. so we don't want you to go on a strict diet and cut out too much, and keep yourself from staying healthy. >> carol is joining us from houston, texas. good morning. >> yes, good morning. i have a question and comment [inaudible] and on a troubling article i read in the new york times. explaining how that the government is [inaudible]

these vaccines. and the counting them, they're [inaudible] counting the j and j twice. they are putting it in with the vaccines, as counted as a shot given, and then they are also putting in the number of one shot given, or the first shot given. two places they are counting, and that's according to the new york times. [inaudible] and i really they're perplexed about that, and i really am to. you're acting, buy your face, i could see you don't know about this. >> no. >> that we call up on a different front regarding the vaccines, because right now, moderna and pfizer is a two shot, johnson and johnson is the single shot. based on what you know, with the vaccines, if we need another round of vaccines for coronavirus within the next year, do you see any change of the distribution? couldn't go to justice illegal

shot? or you think it will continue with the two shots, the two that i mentioned? >> so i suspect that when moderna and pfizer need a booster shot, it's going to be a single shot booster. you know, the reason that you need a second vaccine is that with either pfizer or [inaudible] after the first vaccine, you really only get a about 50 to 80% response. so you need that second booster to be able to get you up to the new 95 5% response that we're getting. so i suspect that a booster is going to be a single vaccine booster, and with johnson and johnson, it will be the same. now i think one of the questions is going to be, can you interchange? are we going to be able to have -- you know, if you had moderna or pfizer, can you just get a vaccine booster that will cover for both? you know, the johnson & johnson technology is different, so i'm quite confident that you are not going to be able to mix and match those. but they are starting to look at some studies to try and see

how much can be you -- can get a first dose of one, and then the second dose of another. and i would imagine we'd be looking at a booster when it's necessary that can maybe cover at least the mrna vaccines. >> and again, as somebody who has studied this in great detail, we get a flu shot every year. at least in the short term. the next couple of years, can you envision that we would need to continue to get a covid-19 shot? >> so i think we are probably going to need a covid vaccine shot. maybe not this year, and again i think that's going to depend on how much of the variants are available, are circulating in the united states. united stthe main reason that we have o get flu vaccine every year is because we do see different strain self influenza circulating. and some of them are saying, and we just get a boost of it, and some of them are because we are seeing new strains of the influenza virus. thankfully, this year, think about how many people around you that have had influenza.

it has been so few this year, and why? because we are masking, we are socially distancing, we are doing all of the things that keep us from passing respiratory viruses from one person to another. my hope is that as we start to enter into virus times of year again, so the viral season, you know, october, november, december, that we all start pulling those masks out again, and may be thinking about not just protecting each other from covid, but also looking to prevent ourselves from getting influenza as well. so as many horrible things that have come out of this pandemic, i think maybe we've all learned a little bit of public health protection in ways that we can -- attack from the vaccine -- ways that we can protect each other and protect ourselves. >> a few more minutes with our guest, dr. kristin englund, and joe is on the phone from san

antonio, texas. good morning. >> yes, doctor englund. i was wondering, do you know anything about the novavax vaccine? when it will be approved, or if it will be approved? and how is this vaccine the same or different from the other vaccines? >> oh! so the novavax, i don't believe is something that is being manufactured here in the united states. and i do not know when that is going to be available. i have not seen anything of far as when it's going to be put in front of the fda, and i'm afraid i don't know where it is in the trial status. on sorry, joe, i don't know the information about novavax. >> hector from boston, massachusetts. good morning. >> good morning, sir. this question is for dr. kristin. if you have had a what they called plasma transfusion in the past, can you still get the covid vaccine without any

conflict complications? >> yes, you can. so if you've had a convalescent plasma -- so that is one of the treatments that we were using for folks who had covid. so trying to get the antibodies from other people who had donated their plasma, and being able to infuse it into somebody who is acutely sick with covid, so that we could give them an immune response, so that that could help fight the acute virus that was present in them. so it was a helpful for some patients, not an overall best practice treatment. but one thing that it does is now that you have those antibodies present, if i tried to give you a vaccine, that vaccine is going to be mutant, because you have antibodies already present. so we do recommend that once you have had convalescent plasma, that you wait, i would say, at least 30 days before you get the vaccine.

if you have had a treatment for your covid called monarch loyal antibodies, then you need to wait 90 days so you can get an adequate response to the vaccine itself. so yes, you can get the vaccine, just make sure that you wait at least 30 days since you've had that treatment. and i hope you're feeling about her. >> st and you have spoken about ths in our last hour, but i just want to go back to the issue of people really feeling isolated over the last year and a half or so. summer is now here, people want to travel. but your advice to those who are eager to hop on a plane, to take a summer vacation, to get in the car and go across the country, your advice as what? >> so i think one of the benefits of being vaccinated is that you can start to open up your world a little bit more. so my entire country come my entire family was vaccinated and we just took a long anticipated, a long awaited vacation so i felt very comfortable traveling. the plane that we traveled on

required, as all planes do right now, required masks the entire time that you are on the plane. so i think they -- the travel companies and the airline companies -- are handling this very, very well. now, i, again, and fully vaccinated. i wasn't traveling with small kids. i think if i was traveling with someone under the age of 12 right now, i would be less likely to get on a plane in a crowded airport, would be more likely to think about trying traveling via the car, where it's a bit more of a controlled as to the interactions that you are having. so again, the benefits of being vaccinated are you can't really have a lot more freedom out there, and be able to enjoy summer and graduation parties and waiting so much more. >> our last caller is from anderson, south carolina. david, good morning. you get the last word. >> good morning. >> good morning.

>> good morning. >> go ahead, david. quick question? >> [inaudible] doctor englund? >> yes? >> yes. >> doctor englund, i've heard this controversy about doctor fauci in the u.s. of a. [inaudible] so much coming out of my mouth as coming out about you. what's the controversy [inaudible] ? >> thank, you david. doctor angela and? >> well thank you. i appreciate the fact that doctor englund we'll thank you. >> i appreciate that i am able to expand. things that's the way i think. i like to think it very plain terms and be able to make, make things understandable, because that's, i think, how people can make the best decisions for themselves is to be able to fully understand what's behind all of this, and all of the news, it can get very confusing, and the technology can get very confusing. but this is also where i think it's tremendously important that we roll out the vaccines

not only from these max vaccination sites, but into the primary care doctors offices. because that's who people trust are their primary care doctors. and i think it's while the mass vaccination sites were very important, i think to be able to sit down and actually have a conversation with someone that you've had a long relationship with, and that you trust, and then be able to make a decision about whether you want to get vaccinated. and then also, other things about how you want to be able to move forward, with your life, about traveling and things like that, whereas i can give you information in and our's time. your primary care doctor is going to be your best source of trusted information. so i'm glad to see we're rolling out vaccines into our primary care offices, and i think that's also going to help us to boost the amount of vaccinations. >> we will conclude on that note, but once again, i want to thank you for joining us again here on c-span. doctor kristin, who's an infectious disease expert at the cleveland clinic. i appreciate your time and your

insights. >> thank you so much, steve. had a great time. >> weeknights we are featuring american history tv programs as a preview of what's available every weekend, on c-span 3. june is pride month. and tonight, we feature programs about lgbtq plus history. starting with santa clara university professor, nancy anchor, discussing the role of gay bars. professor andrea says that by the end of the 19th century, boys and clubs catering to queer individuals could be found in most major american cities. she argues that these establishments offered them not only a place to socialize, but served as venues for creating movements to push for more social and legal acceptance. watch american history tv, tonight, beginning at 8 pm, eastern. and every weekend, on c-span 3.

3 every weekend documenting america's story funding comes from these television companies and more including mediacom. the world changed in an income was ready internet traffic soared and we never slowed down schools and businesses went virtually and we powered a new reality because immediacom we're billed to keep you ahead mediacom along with these television companies supports american history tv on c-span 3 as a public service. up next on american history tv santa clara university professor nancy unger discusses the role of gay bars in american history professor unger argues that