fbi director christopher wray testifies today on the president's 2022 budget request. he's appearing before a senate appropriations subcommittee. watch live beginning at 2:00 p.m. eastern on c-span 3, online at c-span.org or listen with the free c-span radio app. >> tonight on american history tv, we will look at the life and career of president ronald reagan. we will show you an interview he did with first lady nancy reagan at camp david where they talked about their marriage and life in politics. later his inaugural address and other speeches. that starts at 8:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv. we're back with john wood jr. who is the national ambassador for braver angels and he's here to talk with us today

about his organization's efforts to bring america together to discuss our differences and reduce political polarization. john, good morning. >> good morning. it's great to be here. >>, first of all, tell us about what braver angels s what's the group's mission, was when it founded and why does it exist? >> absolutely. so braver angels is america's largest grassroots bipartisan grassroots organization dedicated to the work of political depolarization. by that what i really mean is revising the inclusive spirit, the communal spirit of american democracy, if you will. braver angels initially came into being in the immediate aftermath of the 2016 election or at least that's what we had our very first activity. the founders of the organization, david blinkenhorn, bill dougherty of the university of minnesota and david blatt of south lebanon, ohio, brought

together a group of folks who just voted for donald trump and just voted for hillary clinton, in a town in ohio, in south lebanon, i believe, where you had had a 50/50 split in the vote outcome and where polarization was high as it was across the country to see if through a series of guided exercises it would not be possible to take these folks who were just sort of on the razor's edge of severing their relationships with each other, you know, representing other folks who are similarly polarized in their community to see if they couldn't find common ground and restore some essential sense of trust and friendship as americans and as neighbors. lo and behold this initial three-day workshop based on the principles of marriage counseling was a tremendous success. it managed to -- it managed to transform these folks' views and

understandings of each other and why it is that they voted the way that they did each if they disagreed vociferously and intensely on the issues. so after that we were called better angels at the time, basically the group took the show on the road, going into 2017 in the spring and the summer, better angels formed officially as an organization, it launched a bus tour that crossed a number of eastern and southern states, npr picked it up, did a story, word-of-mouth spread and suddenly folks this local communities who were experiencing breakdowns of relationship in families and local school districts, et cetera, sort of called on -- sort of called on us like the fire department more or less to swing into town and to help put out the fires of polarization that were obviously, you know, burning across the country. i came to the organization as a volunteer in the autumn of 2017

and in the spring of 2018. since then we have built an organization that boasts getting closer now to 20,000 dues paid members across the country, 80 braver angel alliances and these are, in ens, you could say bipartisan chapters of local braver angels groups that are empowered to multiply the workshops and the convening models of braver angels and even in had some cases to potentially collaborate on issues of local community concern. we have a pledging community network including the braver inn gels podcast and we've been able to create a national civic community, if you will, that is left, that is right, that is center, republican, democrat, independent not to mention libertarian and green party and everything in between. and we exist because from left to right i think folks in this

country understand the fact that as much as we have an earnest obligation to speak up for the things that we believe in politically, the long-term success of american democracy hinges not merely upon who we elect but on our ability to maintain relationship and trust with one another as americans, as people in our communities, in our families and in our institutions. if there is no trust between the american people then there is no motivation for us to operate our government, to operate our institutions in a way that seeks to benefit the common good. we will use the rules of society to undermine one another and we will use politics merely to deceive and manipulate each other but not to ultimately advance some common understanding of what america is and ought to be. so restoring those essential bonds of trust between the american people is what the work of braver angels is all about.

>> now we just spent the first hour of the show talking about the new medical holiday juneteenth. can you talk a little bit about what juneteenth means to you? >> yeah, absolutely. well, you know, it's an interesting thing because juneteenth -- juneteenth is a holiday that i've been aware of since -- i think relatively early in my life. it's an old -- it's an old tradition, of course, it goes back to just about the immediate aftermath of the civil war, of course, word reached galveston, texas, following the surrender of lead apomatics late. that is to said that union general gordon grainger arrived in the state of texas i think about two and a half months or so -- well, a couple of months after lee surrendered because texas being geographically removed from the conflict was not a significant theater for

conflict and, therefore, for union presence during the war itself. but when he came the freedom that was already legally granted by the emancipation proclamation but obviously unenforceable was made enforceable, again, albeit -- albeit after a bit of a delay for black slaves in the state of texas. so in the state of texas juneteenth, you know, sometimes referred to as jubilee day or emancipation day, but generally speaking as juneteenth, you know, became a significant day of celebration for blacks in texas, but of course blacks in texas moved to other parts of the south and ultimately spread across the country. i did not grow up celebrating juneteenth myself, i grew up in los angeles, so did my wife who did celebrate juneteenth in church, largely, i think, because many of her relatives were from -- many of her co-parishioners were from texas

and other parts of the south. but if you look at the history of juneteenth in the aftermath of the civil war what you find that juneteenth spreads in terms of the diameter of its practice as civil rights movements pick up steam in american history as blacks spread across the country take their traditions with them from the south. really as the african-american experience continues to be characterized by this sense that the dream of freedom is a dream deferred, dr. king's language, of course, dr. king said that a dream deferred is a dream denied but i think that part of what is worth understanding about the spirit of -- the spirit of juneteenth is that it is a recognition of the fact that that freedom comes to those who endure, to those who persist, who persist in the advocacy for the realization of equal rights and the equal liberties that are

guaranteed to us under the constitution that are suggested by the declaration of independence and so in this moment where so many americans and so many african-americans feel as if we are still taking strides to live up to the full promise of the declaration of independence, the full promise of an authentic american dream of equal rights and equal liberties for all people. that that legacy of perseverance in the name of freedom still endures to this day and therefore juneteenth arises as a part of i think sort of a larger kind of national awakening to some of the deeper contours of the history that has let us to this moment for all the challenges but also for all of its potential and promise as well. so juneteenth emerges for me personally as a significant landmark of celebration and sort of a raising of historical and cultural awareness, both in the

african-american community specifically and in the united states of america in general. so i think that there is a lot of good to be said for it. >> so let's get into some of your organization's work trying to heal the political divide, but before we do let's remind our viewers that they can call in and take part in this segment. we're going to open up our regular lines for this conversation, that means that republicans you can call 202-748-8001, democrats your number is 202-748-8000, independents your numbers are 20 27b 748-8002. you can always text us at 2027488003 and we are always reading on social media, on twitter and facebook. so, john, this week is the national week of conversation. so first of all, tell us exactly what the national week of

conversation is and who is involved in it and what's the goal? >> absolutely. well, the national week of conversation is a week-long series of events put on by a wide range of partners and organizations from within the single bridge building space, groups like listen first, like living room conversations, like the national institute for civic discourse. in america right now you have hundreds and thousands of folks from the world of politics, journalism, philanthropy and just community-level volunteers who like our leaders and our volunteers across the country part of the community of greater ages are setting the context for the american people to come together to have conversations to allow us to restore our understanding of one another's essential motivations, to restore that fabric of trust that exists between the american people and to rebuild a sense of

patriotic empathy which is a phrase that we use at braver angels meaning that your love for your country is demonstrated by the concern that you bear for your fellow americans. so groups like the national conversations project headed by pears godwin and many other folks have come together to advertise this week of convergence, this week of union, if you will, to sort of borrow the civil war era terminology or at least that's fresh on my mind, again, to sort of create a space in the national consciousness, in this moment where we are still sort of struggling up from the national division here recently to get folks the opportunity to look at one another simply put. national week of conversations is a large scale collaborative effort of similar organizations and partner from across the civic bridge building space to

give you folks watching me here today the opportunity to engage one another in conversation across the political divide so that we might remind ourselves just what we truly have in common. >> so if you want to take part in the national week of conversation how can our viewers do that? >> absolutely. well, go to americatalks.us. americatalks.us/nationalweekof conversation. you have an opportunity to plug directly into the larger bridging movement. if you are interested in taking part in this sort of work as a volunteer and of course that's also something that you can do by checking out and getting into our organization at braverangels.org, we are a membership organization, again, with groups and volunteers across the country and across the institutions, as well as being active digitally and online. but that is americatalks.us and you can always just google national week of conversation

and you will see coverage of it in "usa today," all sides and across a great series of publications as well. >> now, john, you had an editorial in "usa today" called america talks, what we can learn from king and reagan about bridging our pray treat tick divide. first of all, define for us what patriotic divide means. what do you mean by that? >> what i mean is that although it may sound, you know, cliché to say, i really do at the end of the day believe that the american people broadly speaking love their country and love each other for that matter, even though polls definitely indicate the fact that on the basis of party affiliation we have come to deeply -- far more deeply distrust one another in current times than we have previously. by the phrase patriotic divide i simply mean this is a divide between patriots on some level. i know some people are going to sneeze at that notion because many of us feel like the either

the other doesn't know america or loves america in a self-righteous way that shows no compassion for many of americas people. i take the examples of dr. king and ronald reagan and i make the point in the essay that these are two men whose politics -- i don't think had any relationship with each other directly while each of them was still living, but of course martin luther king jr. who was foremost leader of the civil rights movement pushed forward a program of political reform that the conservative wing of the republican party at the time at least as it was represented by folks like barry goldwater was opposed to. of course, ronald reagan who spoke -- who gave, i think, really his sort of initial kind of, you know, nationally

recognized and celebrated address supporting barry goldwater at the republican convention, folks like goldwater and reagan tended to oppose the refompls that dr. king was putting forward but of course ronald reagan as president of the united states would also -- would ultimately sign martin luther king jr. holiday into law. and on one of the anniversaries of that -- of that -- of dr. king's -- of dr. king's birthday, of that holiday in 1987 actually, i believe, president reagan makes the point that dr. king in exemplifying -- in exemplifying everything that is great and characteristic of the american struggle for freedom and equality and this idea that one man driven by conscious can make a difference for the entire country says in the context of his remarks that though many folks, many

americans -- some americans certainly disagreed with dr. king in his time, that over the course of time dr. king had proven to be right and, you know, you can't help but seem to me that reagan may have been reflecting on on his own evolution in so saying. the point is as americans and i remember myself to be a philosophical student of the philosophy of nonviolence so dr. king's philosophy of nonviolence. the important thing to remember about that perspective is that it makes the claim that love is a social value that can be applied to social questions. it is in a sense a spiritual value that can be applied to social questions and dr. king described love, agape love of being good will in essence so we can use that term. good will in politics, activism and negotiation sets the stage for us to be able to put forward

our claims for justice, our claims for progress in a way that gives us the chance at least to signal to the opposition that though we are in dis agreement and though we are striving to speak the truth in a way that advances our position, we do so not to in dr. king's words defeat or humiliate the opponent but to win his friendship so that we may be reconciled to one another and reconciled to one another in the beloved community to borrow king's terminology more fully. i think that what you see in the words of ronald reagan in the 1980s in reference to mr. king is a crossing of the political divide. two men who deeply loved america, were deeply schooled and informed about the values of the american founding and who had very different politics, born from very different life experiences nevertheless in this sort of historical coming -- coming full circle, if you will,

arriving at a place reagan to king anyway to where he was able to acknowledge and honor on the very highest level possible, you know, the true moral legitimacy and truth of dr. king's political claims and so the king legacy winds up being one that even though king was left leaning politically in conventional terms is really an american legacy shared by liberals and conservatives alike. as i think ronald reagan clearly would have and indeed did testify to. so this patriotic divide can be crossed by people who love their country left and right and who are willing to -- who are willing to love each other in this bigger way through a spirit of good will. so that's what i mean by crossing the patriotic divide. >> let's let some of our callers get involved. let's start with brett calling from des moines, iowa, on the republican line. brett, good morning. >> good morning to you, sir.

>> go ahead, brett. >> i think john is right on target. god bless him. i don't know what religion he is, but great. i think the push for more reparations, people have been treated wrong. >> your response, john? >> i think i just heard brett say that he thinks we need to push for more reparations. yeah, i take the view to heart, absolutely. i think that the challenge we have just to put the reparations point into context of the larger divisions facing american society, i think that part of the challenge we have and you see this a little bit around some of the political dialogue, even surrounding the juneteenth holiday is that on the one hand i think that there is some

broadly shared recognition in american society that says that, you know, certainly historically speaking you have -- you have simply daunting -- a daunting legacy of oppression and disenfranchisement and marginalization that has visited itself on the african-american community, on the black community and we are agreed on that the division becomes a bit stronger in america when you speak in contemporaneous terms although i think that more and more folks have the sense that the way in which structural society is set up today still poses major problems for the advancement and the full equality and practical terms of african-americans and, therefore, there is a strong moral case to be made for reparations but many people at the same time feel that the conversation over reparations and maybe some of the symbolism

by which we try to sort of ignite the conversation over race in america glosses cleanly over the fact that so much progress has been made that race is often used as a political cajole to divide people and passionate rhetoric and maybe to store emotions but not steer us towards the practical policies that might solve problems on the grow under that could show to be the benefit of the both the most disenfranchised but also americans in general. so the wall of trust gets poisoned and in that context it's hard to imagine something like reparations being able to achieve broad support, you know, beyond perhaps a strong base of the democratic party in the country broadly speaking. at the same time brett is a republican and you've got folks from across the aisle who buck the -- who break the mold and buck the expectations all the

time so it's very possible that that could change. >> let's talk to michael who is calling from deerfield beach, florida, on the democratic line. michael, good morning. >> good morning. boy, wonderful work, both of you are doing. i have two things here, one, i think there's a cancer in both parties when i listen to the think tanks and you may have noticed this, there's an incorrect view of science where they have a view of evolution on both sides, all the think tanks view competition and evolution their competition as leading to optimum outcomes and that isn't how evolution works, evolution does not lead to optimum outcomes. it's leading to a bias where when we talk about a level playing field our reason for wanting a level playing field so that competition can occur and that's wrong. that's one issue when you're

trying to bring the polarized parties together that should help. number two, we have this black/white, on/off perspective which is actually pathological. the science is it's more like a slushy. what you're talking about when you're slushy. what you're talking about when you talk about parties, an external projection of our internal biology. sociology is by definition a competition between self interest and group interest. and we see parties, we see our nations, they align the same thing. it is called dual brain psychology. the reason this is so important is because it offers a new way to do exactly what you're doing. instead of saying, we need to come together. we need to point out the reason these differences are there. they're healthy. we want someone to be fast reacting to danger. not deep thinking. and there are evolutionary reasons to all this. you see a sabre tooth cat.

you don't want to say, hey, i've never seen this. we've developed a natural response to this and we have the ability to actually track this and say, listen, you're not protecting -- as the republican party says, you're not aligned with your natural, biological quick reacting instincts. and as the democratic party, we can actually rate them not on how they align to parties but how the different groups, nations, parties, whatever, religions, even, align to our natural projections of the internal dynamic. >> go ahead and respond there, john. >> sure, yeah. i appreciate the caller's scientific and evolutionary perspective. that language to sort of transport into mainstream political and civic engagement context, nevertheless, i think i take my understanding of the

point to heart. part of which i think is to say that there is a natural but constructive tension between individual self-interest and larger collective self-interest, and this gets tied to the relationship that we have with the groups that we identify with, and of course, part of what makes polarization so incredibly sticky in our own time right now is the fact that partisan identification has become such a deeply rooted part of our personal identities in a way that it simply wasn't, if you go back to the aftermath of world war ii, americans had served together across theaters in europe and pacific ocean, in times when everybody knew what was number one on the pop charts and everybody knew who the

heavyweight champion of the world was. i don't want to be overly nostalgic for the golden age. these were also periods of time where the electoral, political, social disenfranchisement of african-americans was obviously at a, i would say, at least, at a level of explicit and broad-based institutional realities such that you can only, you can only take the political unity of that time worth a grain of salt. it was in some sense underwritten by the fact that the two parties were in agreement, to some degree. some democrats in the south, factions of the republican party were in agreement that it need to be maintained and that's part of what allowed for that functional bipartisanship. nonetheless, among the american people broadly speaking, you look at polls, you know, there is significant data showing the

fact whereas once upon a time the american people, american parents would be concerned if their children, let's say, married outside of their religious faith but wouldn't care at all if their son or daughter was a democrat and married a republican or vice versa. that is wholly not the case today. we judge one another on the basis of our party affiliation in a striking manner. and of course, it makes discourse on main street and negotiations, you know, on capitol hill exceedingly difficult and exceedingly poisonous for folks. so that's the sort of issue that we are seeking to engage, in part by getting people the opportunity to reforge a shared american identity again, if you

will, on the basis of what we have in common. and on the evolution of the human creature, you can draw on qualities of human nature to support that sort of effort. we don't have to abandon our individual self-interest to advocate for what is ultimately good for the country as a whole or the interests necessarily of our group or party. we have to see these things in the this. >> we have a lot of callers trying to get in this conversation. i want to go ahead and read to you two tweets, two comments from our social media follow here's come from different political points but want to know how is it even possible to heal our political divide. here's the first one. i think it will be harder and harder to heal the political divide. how can you compromise abortion, free speech, family life, transgender issues, religious

freedom, massive government control. our division is extremely wider than it was even 15 years ago. and here's a second one that says how do we bridge the gap between those who are still flying the confederate flag or beating capitol police officers to try to stop our national election results. how are you going to address these realities with reason? so two different political ideas. how do you get those people to talk? >> well, one thing unites many american is the skepticism. it is important to take the message that i'm giving you folks here, some context. part of that is a, in response to the first point, the first tweet. abortion, the role of

government, many other things would appear to be grossly intractable. you can go through the whole history of american democratic society. and find questions that in their time, prohibition or segregation, whether the american people should or should not get involved in certain military conflict, or abortion itself, of course. came out of the 1960s. these are issues that all appear to be resistant to compromise and consensus. and they always are until they are no longer. so that's point number one. point number two to the second follower's point, how do we reconcile ourselves to, say, the folks who stormed the capitol?

well, i should say about the work of braver angels, that we really do strive to create a space for the american people to meet each other where they are. and the folks who come to our events are oftentimes folks who recognize the importance of at least trying to make themselves available to these conversations, and two, folks who feel very polarized. they don't want to have anything to do with folks on the other side of the aisle. but they might get pulled into the door by a friend or relative or neighbor or someone who says, this is something you ought to do. and the experience tends to be impactful for everybody involved. just to say, you don't necessarily start by going all the way out to the edges. there's plenty enough division and polarization that exists between the vast majority of americans who have never contemplated political violence, mind you, such that there is

tremendous good there to be done. i would say that even in the case of the folks who stormed the capitol, even in the case. folks who may have committed violence in the protests and demonstrations over the summer, recognizing the fact that each of these represents a very distinct minority within the larger context of the partisan tribes that you would tend to lump them in with, there's a story to be told that accounts for the grievances and the frustrations and the social despair and desperation that many americans feel that radicalizes some americans and of course, exploited by some political actors out there in our politics. it's not to absolve anybody's responsibility for the things that they do. i'm not beginning to say that. it is to say that it is worth it for us to begin to understand the stories of our fellow americans in the spirit of

patriotic empathy, such that we can have some understanding of what drives people to do the things they do. to believe the things they believe so that we can more adequately communicate with one another and be in relationship with one another and humanize each other, so that folks don't get to these places of desperation to begin with. that is a project worth committing to. that, too, therefore is the work of braver angels. //

we are live on capitol hill where fbi director christopher wray will be testifying shortly about the president's 2022 budget request. director wray will take questions from members of a

senate appropriate ragss sub committee. this is live coverage on

>> i think it must be you, director. this committee is not always this quiet. good afternoon. i apologize again for being late. i'm delighted to open this commerce, justice and science appropriations subcommittee hearing with fbi director christopher wray. we're very pleased to have you here and look forward to our conversation. i will just point out before we