c-span.org/history. >> good morning, and thank you for joining us for another episode in the museum's facebook live series. i'm your host, historian edna friedberg. during each program, we explore an aspect of holocaust history and its relevance to our world today. this month, as we commemorate asian-american and pacific islander heritage month, we do so at a time while witnessing a disturbing rise in hate speech and violence against

asian-american individuals and communities. during our period of history, although japan was nazi germany's ally in world war ii, today we will highlight a japanese diplomat who defied that alliance to help european jews during the holocaust. we will also recognize the sacrifice made by many japanese-americans who, despite being vilified in the u.s., joined the american military and helped to free jews from nazi persecution. i am honored to be joined by leo who survived the holocaust because of the actions of japanese diplomats. leo is chairman emeritus of the cme group and the founder of financial futures, also the initiator of glow beck, and he recently published a book of memoirs called "man of the future" in which he has several chapters devoted to the heroism and great tiewld he feels to him. good morning, leo. >> good morning.

>> i'm so glad to see you in chicago. >> i'm delighted to participate in this very important program. >> in developing today's show, we were also fortunate to meet sukihara's youngest son, and we look forward to sharing with you some of his reflections about his father's motivations and the impact of his actions during the war. during today's show, please send your questions for leo by posting them in the comments section, and we'll get to as many of them live during the course of the program as we are able. so, leo, let's begin at the beginning when you were just a young boy living in poland in the 1930s, and we have this adorable picture of you. love those cheeks. tell us, where were you born, when, and what was life like for you and your parents? >> well, i was born in poland, the second largest city in poland and had a very large population of jews, over

100,000. life was very normal outside of the fact there were occasional -- that happened throughout poland. my parents were both yiddish schoolteachers, and my father was a mathematician besides. he was also a civic leader many our city is, and the only jew, i think, that was elected to the city council. that's very important because it served to give him a chance to escape, escape with his wife and me and my other child, so to speak. it was a big city, and winters were harsh in poland, and that's me all bundled up and with my parents, as normal as can be. that's a very nice picture of my

kindergarten class. you can see how the kids were very normal kids in any big city or small city, and all of us gathered for the picture. >> now, how was that life shattered? how did it change after germany invaded poland in september of 1939 starting world war ii? >> it was an extreme, radical change, of course. the essence was that my father being on the city council was called in by the mayor of our city, and they gathered in the great synagogue because the city hall had been bombed out. and at that time, the mayor said to the council members that it

is likely that they would all be hostages because they are prominent in the city and that he advised them that they had the leave or should leave, and he had rented a truck to take them not with their families, they couldn't to that, but they could do the 20 or so council members and give them safety for a while. and nobody knew where they were going, and that was, of course, on purpose so that we could not divulge it because we doesn't know. we didn't know. it was a harrowing experience. my mother woke me in the middle of the night and took me to say good-bye to my father during a night when bombs were falling and flashes of light and a constant sound of a machine gun. and we ran through the darkness

to an empty lot where everyone had gathered with their family to say good-bye and the lonely truck sitting there. i closed my eyes and i remember that entire scene. it was harrowing. but it began the escape for my father which, of course, saved me and my mother eventually. >> now, i want to take a moment to greet and welcome our international viewers. thank you for joining us from around the world in nicaragua, in brazil, the city of cologne in germany and in the polish city of krakow. we're very happy to have you here. now, leo, i know from speaking with you previously that your father escaped to list wane a ya, and you and -- lithuania and you and your mother soon followed him.

you were among an estimated 15,000 polish jews who found safe haven there, but it was not long-livedded. after eight months, soviet forces invaded, and we are seeing a photograph of those troops coming into town. how did this affect your father particularly in relation to his outspoken political views? >> well, my father who was a brilliant man was a very strong member of the organization who were jewish socialists, very much anti-communist, very much anti-stalin. and, therefore, he was on a list for arrest, or could have been on a list anyway. he wasn't ever sure of the nkbd which is the precursor to the kgb. and so once the russians came back into the city, he did not

return from vilna for the reasons i just indicated. he was not happy with the russians, and he called my mother on a telephone that our neighbor had. we doesn't have a telephone. -- we didn't have a telephone. told her to grab me and some stuff and take the last train out before the borders closed. she did that, and we said our good-byes. we didn't know whether that would be for a week, two weeks or whatever. it turned out to be forever. but we didn't know it at the time. and my mother and i spent a very difficult train ride, and it would stop off and everybody would run out for fear of bombings, and then there would

be a whistle that would blow, and we would all come back on the train. anyway, we made it, and we then lived under lithuanian rule for a bit until the non-aggression treaty between hitler and stalin was broken. and at that point, poland was divided partly to the nazis and partly to the russians. and they, and in the process, russia overtook lithuania. and so we we found ourselves in russian rule which again was not good for my father. he used to leave and often hid in the forest nearby and would visit us from time to time. but it was a very difficult life. i, of course, was in school because that's what schoolteachers do, they put their children immediately in

school. my parents were very much concerned that my education was lacking. obviously, i couldn't go to class, so they did enroll me, and i was beginning to learn lithuanian at first. and then when the russians came in, that changed the russian. so i started to learn russian although i knew some of it because i knew if polish very well. and that lasted for almost a full year with a very difficult time for both my parents and myself. >> we'll take a moment to welcome our viewers who are watching from across the u.s. good morning to you from chicago, leo's hometown, santa fe, new mexico; lexington, north carolina; phoenix, arizona; and also happy to see our friends from the georgia commission on the holocaust. good morning to all of you. now, leo, when did your father encounter the japanese diplomat, sukihara?

>> well, you must remember that my father never wanted to get back anyway because he held the communists in such, in such a horrible stand so that the idea of leaving the russian rule of vilna was one of the main forces for him. and, of course, everyone understood that the nazis were only months away from perhaps capturing the city. and rumor had it that the japanese consul-general in lithuania, what was then the capital of lithuania, would possibly give transit visas to the jews that wanted to leave russian rule and the fear of nazi occupation. and so he along with thousands

of others that were in vilna, theirs cape route. theirs cape route. now, mind you, these are the very few that managed to get out of the horror that was to follow in the holocaust. and it was sukihara's bravery as a diplomat to deny the orders of his government because they didn't want him to issue these transit visas. everybody -- if anyone understands what a transit visa is, they've probably seen the movie casablanca, and if they haven't, i urge you to see it because you'll you said. the transit visa is the only hope you have of escaping from where you are and certain death probably anyway. and sukihara, the japanese

consul-general, geaf out over 2,000 -- gave out over 2,000 visas. and those 2,000 actually represented a lot more because the visa represented the family, so to speak. so i and my mother and father had one visa, and we ended up getting out. but much harder and more difficult was the fact that you needed permission from the russian foreign office to leave. and when you applied for permission to leave russia at the time it was considered dangerous because then you were saying that you didn't want to stay in the paradise that russia represented. [laughter] so it was dangerous for us to apply. but fate would have it we did receive permission to leave and eventually took a train to

moscow. and from moscow, the very, very famous siberian express to the port on the eastern, far eastern russian port. and that, that train ride through siberia is one i'll never, never forget because it was, like, over two weeks. >> leo, i'm going to interrupt you for a moment because some viewers may be surprised to know that a representative of japan, a nation that was allied with nazi germany at the time, that he would be willing to help people who were being targeted by an ally of his government. we had an opportunity to speak with sukihara's youngest son, nobuki. let's hear him's. -- him explain in his own words why his father helped while others stood by and did nothing.

>> he sees many coming, one after the other. so he extended his stay for another month. soviet authority, and he didn't expect 500, 1,000 or more. he started issuing -- [inaudible] for him just to say one life is equal to 1,000 lives. he never imagined that he was doing any heroic acts. >> so we have an audience comment. a woman named pamela writes to say: my dad and uncle also received visas from sugihara and traveled the same route to freedom and safety and, in fact, over 2700 polish jews were

admitted to japan between july 199 40 and june 1941 thanks to the actions of sugihara. leo, after this journey on the trans-siberian train and a difficult three days on the sea of japan, could you please describe your arrival the japan to us in the port of ch a aruga? >> compared to the horror of going through siberian winter for over two weeks and ending up on a little boat and being embarked to -- which was an unbelievable experience because the people welcomed us and were extremely friendly, offering flowers and fruit. and my mother whispered to me that it was the first time in the last two years. >> she could breathe -- that she could breathe freely and let go of my hand, which she claims she

held on to for two years. so it was a moment that, of course, you never forget. and you don't forget the friendship that, in fact, the people evidenced, the japanese people evidenced to all of us who were desperate and knew that we were escaping from the horrors that were going on in europe. but it's something that you never, never forget. and the heroism of sugihara to defy his government's orders and issue visas as his son that you just saw. i met the brother many years later in tokyo, if he told me -- and he told me many stories about his father. he had devoted his life to the

memory of sugihara, his father, and i joined that effort and promised him that i would do everything i could to memorialize the memory of this great hero. >> leo, you ended up in the japanese city of kobe, correct? >> yes, because it was the cheapest place to live and, of course, we didn't have any money. if it wasn't for the joint effort of the committee to give us, help us, it would have been impossible. that, what you're viewing is a crayon box because my parents, again -- [laughter] made me enter school because we didn't know how long we would be there. and they gave kids this crayon box, the only evidence i have of going to the japanese school, which i did. of course, i've forgotten the language since.

and it was a really different experience than the one in russia because we were at least free for the moment and not in danger of death and whatever can happen to the jews in europe. >> and we are very grateful to you at the museum, leo, for donating your wooden crayon box to us. we feel very honored to be the safekeepers of that artifact and what it represents. also the organization that you mentioned that provided financial support to your family, the joint is the nickname for the american-jewish joint distribution committee, an organization that still exists today, a jewish charitable nonprofit. now,al to though we don't have images of you and your parents in japan at the time, we do have some photographs of some of the other jewish refugees who were able to survive thanks to the transit visas including these photos from kobe, gathering for

a meal and also many hundreds of refugee ya sheave v.a. students -- ya seen baa students. higher learning of jewish study. now, we mentioned transit visas. they mean you're supposed to be passing through, and sugihara issued these, they were supposed to be for a 10-day stay in japan, but people found themselves there sometimes for months or longer. how long were you and your parents in japan, and where did you go next? >> well, we were there for over four months. and, of course, my parents applied to many countries. everybody wanted to go to the u.s. as the first choice, of course. but they applied everywhere you could because you knew you would have to leave japan. so they applied and many ended up in australia or in canada, but the bulk of them ended up in

shanghai and that had to live through the war that was coming in a very difficult period of time for them there. very few, just a couple of hundred, got permission to come to the united states. again, we were on that list, and the reason for that is that the afl, the american labor unions, all gave a list of endangered people to the state department in the u.s., and those -- that list contained a hundred names of people that were in their labor movement such as was my father. and so our name was on that list. and it's because of that, that the a state department ad vised the ambassador in japan -- advised the ambassador in japan, in tokyo to give us passage and

let us leave and go to the united states. an enormously lucky vent. and, again -- lucky event. and, again, my father was just unbelievably brilliant in getting us to safety as he did. >> so once again, good fortune found you and your parents. i also just want to give a special greeting to our mutual friend, dan broun berg watching in washington, d.c., whose father and grandparents were some of your travel companions. we have a question coming in from the audience, leo. a woman named carrie asks: did your mom tell you what was going on in the world and the severity of the situation? did you have any awareness of wider events or what you'd escaped? >> well, we did. and, of course, they understood. but nobody really understood the holocaust except those people that were unfortunate enough to

be trapped. you couldn't imagine that a sane society would go about actually killing an entire nation like the jews represented. it's not something that's easily understood. so my parents, of course, knew the horror, but we could never understand the fullness of that atrocity. as far as my family is concerned, when the germans returned, they took 2,000 jews from our neighborhood. and under gunpoint, put them into the great big synagogue. they locked the doors and windows, hosed down the walls with gasoline, then set the

entire building on fire. yeah, that was what it looked like before it was ruined. today there's just the dome left. but 2,000 jews burned to death including my entire family when the nazis returned. >> horrific crime, and that included both of your grandmothers, right, aunts, cousins -- >> everybody that we had which, of course, was predominant family perished that day. >> to to give people a sense of proportion and just how lucky you were to encounter sugihrar -- hara, we mentioned over 2700 polish jews who found safety in japan. of the jews who landed in japan, only 532 of them were able to sail to the u.s.

i understand that rafael lempkin, the man who coined the term genocide and chopped its adoption -- championed its adoption as a case of international law, was on the ship, right? >> i was a child. i was 8 years old and didn't get to know rafael, but he was a great man, and he knew my parents because we were on the ship for over ten days that took us from japan to seattle, washington. lempkin became a lawyer for the united nations. he was a lawyer in europe too, and he coined the phrase genocide to describe what happened to the jews in europe. and that world, of course, is in the lexicon of the world today. but it was lempkining that put that together, and he was -- [inaudible] >> and we actually did a program

about him just a few weeks ago. we will post a link to that in the comments. now, leo, soon after you and your parents arrived to america, several months later on december 3, 1941, the japanese -- december 7, 1941, the japanese attacked the u.s. naval base in pearl harbor, hawaii, setting off war in the pacific. what awareness did you have of the impact on japanese-americans at that time, and how did you square that with your direct experience having just been in japan? >> it was very difficult to understand. of course, now i was 9 years old, and, you know, i knew quite a bit having experienced what i did. but with i couldn't understand -- but i couldn't understand how the people who seemed so civil and friendly to us could then take the united states. then attack the ideas. i realized there was a big difference between population and the government seemingly, and i never understood that.

of course, i grew up as an american patriot as all kids did, but it was difficult to understand why the japanese did this and why our government did what it did when it interned them. but, you know, life is full of mysteries, and that was one of them, one of the ones that i encountered. >> and when you mention when they interned them, you're referring to an executive order that president franklin roosevelt signed in 1942 that led to the forcible relocation not only of japanese immigrants to the u.s., but also of american citizens of japanese descent. about 120,000 people were forced from their homes into these so-called relocation centers. many were made to sell their businesses, their homes, and they were vilified and treated as enemy aliens. though their country was turning against them, still more than 33,000 japanese-americans served

in the military during world war ii. and i'd like to remind our viewers that the american army was segregated at the time. so both african-american soldiers and japanese-american soldiers like the ones we are seeing here served in segregated units. the photo we just saw was of the 4 42nd regimental combat team in france in 1944, and we have a audience comment. a viewer named vicki notes the mt. toe of the 4 -- motto of the 442nd was go for broke. they had a lot to prove. among these soldiers was a young an man named clarence matsumora, born in wyoming the japanese immigrant parents. his family had been forced into a relocation camp in wyoming, and he was among the members of the a 5 52nd field artillery battalion which was a segregated unit made up of second

generation japanese-americans, first and second generation. it became one of the most decorated units in american history. why a. i telling you this? -- can why am i telling you this? if in may 1945, clarence's unit was many germany, part of liberating forces, end when they came across people who were lying along the roadside, prisoners who had collapsed after so-called death march from a camp. as he later recalled, clarence recalled these people looked like skin and bones. many of them were unconscious. among those who clarence encountered was a teenager named sully. we have a photo of him from after the war. like leo, his family was lucky to get transit visas to japan from sugihara, but unfortunately, lithuanian passports were deemed invalid, and the soviets would not allow them to leave.

instead, they were imprisonedded for a long period of time in the ghetto in lithuania under horrible conditions as you can see here in this photo. there were mass shootings, there was starvation, there was disease. sully was deported first to a concentration camp, and on that day in may 1945, he was stunned to see asian-looking men in american uniforms. he later recalled thinking they looked like sugihara and his family, and we know that many years later, decades later, clarence and sully were reunited here at a gathering that commemorated the liberation of dachau. so again, two young men whose paths, who whose trajectories were changed because of who they are, because of racism, racist ideologies, and they found each other that way. we have an audience question coming in, and i think we'll get

to it now. it's about why it took so long for sugihara to be recognized for what he did. a viewer named helene is asking. do you have any thoughts on that, leo, and actions that you have taken to insure that sugihara's bravery and compassion has been recognized? >> it did take a long time, actually, and, you know, war -- the war was one reason. but years later i met hiroke, the oldest of the sons that were in the embassy at the time. i hadn't met him before, but i met him in tokyo, and we became very close friends. he told me many things about the bravery of his father and how difficult it was for people the understand that his father was quite the hero he was. and we both took the oath --

hiroke had devoted his life to memorialize his father as did i. actually, my office in chicago became a mecca for any of the sugihara family members as well as officials from tokyo. japan today is our strongest ally in the far east, and we get many, many visitors from japan. i did my part as i promised hiroke, he's passed on, but i promised him to devote myself to the memory of that. and, of course, i did and continue to do. but it was i think in 1986 that labeled sugihara's act as one of the righteous of the world. and this doing -- in doing that,

of course, sugihara became very, very famous for his great deed of humanity. and then the united states holocaust museum memorialized him as well so that the work of many of us resulted in in the world's understanding what that great deed was. he's kind of known as the japanese schindler because of what schindler's action was in saving jews. i think sugihara save ised many more than schindler did. >> i think i agree with everything you said. another part has to do with the actual arc of sugihara's own life. he was initially transferred to other japanese consulates in other cities in europe. he also did not provide, would not reveal the list of people to whom he had issued visas until

february of 1941, i believe, so that their identities kind of couldn't be traced. after the war, he and his family were actually put in a soviet internment camp for 18 months and, in fact, he did not realize that anyone had survived with the help of his transit visas until the late 1960s. so the story was not even necessarily completely clear to sugihara in the immediate aftermath of the war. we have another question from a woman named debbie who is saying since japan was a nazi german ally, what did they think of a japanese diplomat helping jews? debbie, he was given instruction not to issue these transit visas but did so anyway because of his conscience. leo, could you talk about the more recent japanese government and your involvement with them and their recognition of sugihara posthumously?

>> yes, of course. in time everyone recognized the heroism of sugihara, and i took it upon myself to do, as i said, whatever i could and so did many other survivors. i wasn't a alone in that effort. this is a picture of the prime minister of is japan in the middle there. i'm standing next to him. and on my left is marsha bernstein -- masha bernstein. she also survived through a sugihara transit visa. so the prime minister came to pay respect at the holocaust museum and light a candle in memory of sugihara. the name of sugihara eventually in japan was understood by everybody to have been an extraordinary hero who defied

government orders because his view of humanity was such that what was happening in europe and the danger that we all had was wrong. and wrong is too mild, too mild word. and he took it upon himself to do what he thought was with right in saving these people, this 2,000 or so people from certain death. because once the nazis captured vilna, the jews there were annihilated almost in its entirety. >> and, of course, we can never know with any precision exactly how many lives have been made possible because of the bravery, because of the actions of sugihara because not only is it the people who were the direct beneficiaries, but all of their

descendants. leo, you yourself have been very fortunate to have three children, five grandchildren and multiply that by thousands and thousands of people and their families. we would also like to give a special, special greeting to nobuki sugihara who is watching today. we are is grateful to you and also to your father, of course. nobuki has meant hundreds of holocaust survivors -- met hundreds of holocaust survivors who are alive only thanks to the deeds of his father. let's hear him describe the impact that meeting these descendants and survivors has had on him. >> i have met survivors, so many survivors, and they say that they have family in australia, in israel. so i can't imagine how many --

makes me so happy that this life was saved. it's incredible. >> and it is absolutely incredible. we have many, many audience comments, and we will share some of these with you later, leo, and also nobuki either noting these are saved family members directly or just thanking him the for his bravery. a viewer named steven writes, i have herald this story before, but it is wonderful to hear it firsthand from leo. and i agree. we are very, very lucky. leo, in closing, i want to ask you a question really about today and how this story affects us today because we are witnessing rising discrimination, violence, again, vilification against asian-americans here in the u.s. just earlier this week i was in new york city, i was in chinatown, and i was disturbed to see there were civilian

groups patrolling to protect against racist attacks. it made me really sad that that was necessary. in your view, from your vantage point, what lessons can we apply from history, and how can it help us to prevent that attitude to continue to escalate? >> well, i guess it's difficult to erase racism, and it continues to be throughout the world. but the one thing that sugihara taught the world is one man can make a difference. so each of us, each of us can make that difference like he did or in similar fashion or in any way to stand up against racism and bigotry and try to erase it, stamp it out wherever it occurs. it's very serious and difficult for the people that suffer this racism like in the case of the asians and certainly in the case

of jews with anti-semitism still prevalent throughout the world. these are the kind of things that sugihara stands above everybody in showing how one individual could stand up to racism and do something about it. in his case, he saved thousands, and today hundreds of thousands of lives as a result of standing up. every person in the world can do something about it, and he showed us how. he's a great humanitarian. >> well, thank you so much, leo, for joining us today not only to share your story of survival, but to share and, i hope, to make contagious your commitment to preserving and shining a light on this legacy. it really means a hot. thank you. >> thank you. >> there is a well known saying from thal mud that whoever --9 from th talmud whoever saves the

life, saves the world. sugihara's compassion live ares on in the many thousands of descendants who would never have been born if not for his heroism. resistance comes in many forms. in the case of sugihara, a simple piece of paper meant the difference between life and death. today we also learned about and honored a group of japanese-americans who refused to allow racist determination to define them. as president harry s. truman later described these soldiers, they fought not only the enemy, but they fought prejudice, and they won. may we all be inspired to fight and stand up to hate whenever we see it. we thank