>> now, on american history tv, a historian with the u.s. house of representatives discusses hispanic americans who have served in congress. this event, with matthew

wasniewski. -- >> i'm richard mcculley, on a story for the center of religiously of archives, thank you for attending today's researcher top of this last day of july, and this is the last top in this series until we resume in september. for those of you in attendance, our guest hardly needs an introduction, as wasniewski is the historian of the u.s. house of representatives, and an ex-member of the advisory committee on the record of congress to which the center for legislative archives reports twice annually. he is a longtime friend and supporter, as well as a source of guidance to the center for the service on the advisory committee. matt is here today to discuss hispanic americans in congress, 1822 to 2012, which was published last year.

this is a third in a series that has come out of the house office of the historian under mats leadership, the previously published volumes being women in congress, 1917 to 2006, published in 2006, and black americans in congress of 18 72, 007, published in 2008. the total page count for these three volumes, are calculated, is 2573 and still counting. i believe that there is a fourth volume in the works. >> -- >> so, this series, obviously, represents a very substantial effort for which we are all grateful, and we are very eager about this latest publication, thank you so much for joining us, matt. >> thank you for inviting me. pleasure to be here, pleasure to see you -- to see so many familiar faces.

your reference to page count was excellent, because i was recently talking to -- this is the book by the way in hardcover version. i was recently talking to a major trade press editor. she was telling me about a few of her offers. authors, one of whom is very well known as a historian. and she writes big thick 800-page history books. and she relayed this story of an author they told her of a friend about the author's book and said that this is just a fantastic book, i cannot put it down. i am, you know, taking it to get dressed, i'm taking it to bed. and last night i was reading it in bed and holding it up like this, and i fell asleep, and the book dropped on the bridge of my nose, and now i have a bruise. well, the editor thought that this was a teachable moment for the authors, and said, no more broken books. no more broken noses, that is the new book rule. no more 800 pagers. this book definitely violates

that rule. it is a nose breaker. in fact, i think it is the -- it fits the arnold schwarzenegger rule, which is you get your work out when you lift it up. but it is meant as a reference book, like the earlier books in this series on women, in congress. and i think that one of the interesting things that happens when you write about individual members at some length. yes, they're about 1500, maybe 3000 words, but it's that you get will look like at first seemingly disconnected dots. and you kind of, through an active pointy-ism, the dots begin to make a bigger picture. and certainly a larger picture emerged as we are working on this publication. to give you some quick background on the book, again, as richard mentioned -- third in a series. in some ways, it's a book that's very much like it's two predecessors. women in congress, we published

the latest addition of that in 2007. and the books on african americans we published in 2009. these were all originally authorized by prince resolution, by congress, and the prime mover behind the original edition in the 19 seventies was lindy boggs of louisiana who is a great component for house history. and did a lot to put up the history of the institution. those books were like pamphlets at the time, because so few women and african americans had served in congress. a second addition was published, of both of those books in the early 90s. and a volume on hispanic americans was added. at that point, we had no history operation in the house. and so, the library of congress hispanic division produced a first addition which appeared in 1995. and -- so the second addition of hispanic americans --

asian pacific islander americans, which is -- that will wrap up the series. it mirrors the structure of the books on women and black americans in congress,. there are individual essays about every member introduce in chronological order with contextual essays that set them in generational groups. these are four to five dependencies, and historical images, and artifacts. some of which -- it is aimed at a upper high school -- upper high school, lower college audience. and in striking aspects, some of the storylines do mirror one another. women, african americans, hispanic americans, each of those storylines there is a turning point where the members become surrogate representatives for the larger hispanic community. of women's issues nationally,

african men are -- african americans issues. does also similar part to this story of how the groups are integrated into congress. there is a pioneering generation that has to work their way into the institution. there is generally a long apprenticeship phase where they gain seniority, get on good committees, and work their way up into leadership. and then there's this mature integration phase. that usually happens when there is a critical mass of enough members to create and issues caucus, and drive the legislative agenda. but in many aspects this story is really distinct from women in african americans. but one thing, it's a story that stretches all the way back to 1822, to joseph marion hernandez, our first hispanic american in congress. so it is a century, before women, and a half century before we see half -- african americans in congress. and really, the early part of the story is driven by american foreign policy.

expansion, continentally, and then globally. the acquisition of florida from spain, the louisiana purchase, the annexation of texas, the war with mexico in 1848. the spanish american war. the first century is also about another of the themes that emerges is democracy at the representation of borders of american democracy. about how individuals, political scientists call statutory representatives, delegates and resident commissioners who the constitution did not really contemplate. and how they were incorporated into congress. how congress not only created that office, but often gave them very limited and circumscribed powers. and then the fact that these individuals for the most part or representing majority hispanic constituencies, and the question on how these

people, were incorporated, or whether they would actually be incorporated into the body of politics. an interesting aspect of the stories that up into world war ii, two thirds of hispanic american representation in congress where the statutory representatives, mainly delegates from new mexico and resident commissioners from puerto rico. so from a resource perspective this book is a little bit different as well because unlike the fields of women's history and african american history, hispanic latino studies doesn't have as many monographs or political biographies of the individuals were covered here. and this aspect the field is somewhat undeveloped and splintered. much of the research relied on primary sources, paper elections, in santa fe and albuquerque, new mexico, local and regional spanish and english language newspapers. we relied heavily on the

hispanic division which was fantastic at the library of congress georgia, john and tracey north. they got it is to resources both in new mexico and puerto rico. also helped us with the storyline of the book. we used the library of congress is periodical room to look at a number of newspapers, particularly puerto rican newspapers, and loomed oh, blood democracy, at the ever helpful santa of one star, only one of the three that was an english. and national archives, to capture the story, particularly of puerto rican presidential commissioners, and territorial delegates, we went to a number of different wrecker groups, the department of interior territorial papers, record group 48 the records of the office of the territories, record group 1:26, the bureau of ancillary affairs, and also the --

supplied us with a lot of images of original documents and certificates of election. so the book is structured, again, like the volumes on women and congress, african americans around several long generation or storyline breaks. the first runs from 1822 to 1898. the era of continental expansion in the u.s.. the second breaks down from the spanish america war two world war ii. an era of u.s. colonial expansion, global expansion. then the third period runs from world war ii through the civil rights movement of until 1976. the hispanic caucus was created in december of 1976 and that was another turning point. post 1977 is the modern era. after the founding of the caucus. but that might be useful to go through a couple of the individuals here along the way and just trace the storyline. i'm happy to take questions at

the end. i'm hopeful to leave 20 or 15 minutes for that. the president would hear, joseph hernandez served a very brief term. he's an incredibly interesting person. more for his career outside of congress because it was so short. but he was one of the individuals who helped bridge the states cultural and government, governmental transition from spanish colony to u.s. territory. he had fought for spain prior to the turnover to u.s. control. he later fought for the united states, particularly against seminal indians in several of the conflicts with local indian tribes. he earned and lost a great fortune on several plantations. he owned hundreds of african american slaves. his life was complex. this guy is a slave boning indian infighting politician who it turned out would be cut from the jacksonian cloth.

he bodied attitudes towards statehood and representation that many of the delegates in the 19th century later would. history service was very brief. but it set a precedent for later territorial delegates. he was the very first delegate from florida, he leaves at the end of the 17th congress, his focus for the couple months he was in the house was largely internal improvements, this is a storyline that follows throughout the 19th century as well. he focused on a postal road from st. augustine to pensacola. like a lot of the territorial delegates of the 19th century and no committee assignments. his powers were very limited. he could introduce legislation, he could cajole members, he could lobby but his powers on the floor were circumscribed. this story takes a turn with mexico in 1846.

this is really the first major turning point in the story. it raised questions for congress, particularly about how territories with culturally unique populations acquired from the massive mexican secession in the wake of the war, i do the probation's of the treaty of guadeloupe hidalgo, how they will be represented in the federal government, eventually incorporated. this individual is the second hispanic american to serve in congress. he served 30 years after hernandez, padre gallego's. this is a really interesting story that we came across, originally turned on to it because we find it in hines precedents. he's elected in 1853, he's actually the second delegate from the new mexico territory, there was an anglo delegate that preceded him. and he comes from an interesting background, he had been a legislator in the

mexican assembly, representing nuevo mexico, in the 18 forties was a frontier land. he had become very adept, he had been a former priest and had after the transition to american rule been defrocked, an american bishop came in and chased him out. so he switched to a career in politics. he comes to washington in 1853. he does not speak english. he knows very little about the american political system. he knows very little about the party that he's elected under, the democrats. he is a very adept at finding out where the levers of power are. his first problem is that he literally and figuratively is a voiceless legislator. he is relying on members of the house to translate for him. this tended to be members who were from a zuri.

at the other end of the santa fe trail who were bilingual. his friend among them was john smith phelps of missouri who acted as his informal interpreter on the floor. this situation was not going to work for a long time and i eagles knew he had to change this. he went to the head of the judiciary committee and the committee on territories. and they both went to the floor on his behalf. in early 1854. and the pleaded with the house to allow, first of all, to pay for a translator. then second, okay, we don't want to pay for translator at least let him bring one on the floor. give him a translator, given the privilege of the floor. in both cases the house reject those. the chairman on territories went before the house and said let him have an interpreter, i'm quoting, in order that he may be more effectually understanding in the proceedings of this body. he doesn't understand one word

of the english language which is the misfortune of his constituents. this is not for his personal convenience before the convenience of the people that he represents. that's rejected that argument. so what happens is that gallegos is left to have his speeches translated into english and read by the clerk of the house. or to have members helped him on the floor. again, deliberately or it's not the only impediment. he doesn't serve on a committee. castle abe other members to help him push legislature. he wins the election again in 1855 but this election is contested by and other hispanic for new mexico who would run against him. miguel lautaro. that contested election really opens a window under what is happening in new mexico politics in the 19th century. because gallegos was really part of a dominant faction of

hispanic those in the district who favored the receding spanish system. they had latched on, they hadn't gained revolutionary ardor during the mexican revolution. that was kind of culturally and politically where they were coming from. the other side was rump presented by matero who was from a business orientated rico class. and that class tended to align it with the american political model which had been introduced in new mexico. raz gallegos was a pillar of the old native ruling class, or terrible aunt to this group of many u.s. educated entrepreneurs who were openly aligned with the americans. here is a picture of him. so there was a contested

election in 1855. it came down to disputed votes so it happened on the floor is a fascinating event. this is july of 1865. gallegos is defending himself through an interpreter, through the clerk of the house. he is reading his statement on the floor. and he stressed his personal ties to his constituents. describing himself as native to that very mexican soil. he emphasizes the fact that mexican american constituents, quote, chose me as their representative. i'm not ashamed whatsoever is coming to them enemy. hamed of whatsoever ishe judgede jets which house members addressed his faltering anguish were insults against all nuevo mexico knows. as i am their true representative under the laws, i claim to be their true type in all that has been the subject of sarcasm and ridicule, in the debates about this

contested election. i receive it all as a representative of my people. ontario in stark contrast comes on to the floor and he speaks in english. he dresses the house. he repeats salacious claims against gallegos, going back to his days in the priesthood. he accuses gallegos of being a creature of an airline political culture, the mexican party faction which he described as, quote, indulging great hostility against the institutions of the united states. and contrasts to gallegos, otero, describes himself as being of i'm quoting him here, on a mixed spanish descent. as part of the nuevo mexico would lead who viewed u.s. annexation as salvation, quoting him again, the only security from the perpetual discords and civil wars of mexico, i confess have always been attached to the

institutions of this country. to have been taught from childhood to look to this quarter for the political regeneration of my people. this was a strategy that later territorial delegates like oh tara would adopt because they believed it was a crucial link in the argument for statehood since they believed congress needed to be convinced of new evo mexico's readiness for self government and also their whiteness. there was an interesting multi layer debate going on here. and otero typified hispanic delegates from new mexico and a number of other west as well. his son, moreno, would be the first hispanic to serve as governor of a territory in the late 18 nineties. these delegates, the hispanic delegate gets for new mexico who represent eight of the ten hispanics who served in congress and the 18 hundreds, they had a much in common. they all came from upperclass

backgrounds. they all came from lengthy jen tree, well to do merchant families, mostly work into related by blood or marriage. most had a prior experience in elective office in the territorial assembly of new mexico. many were successful entrepreneurs. in fact the interesting thing is that the delegates office in many respects is a launching pad for their later career and territorial politics. they serve in washington for a brief term. they go back to the district and that burnish is the resume to either hold territorial wide office or to push forward their business interests. like many other new mexico politicians, especially future territorial delegates, otero and other delegates such as josé francisco chavez had a connection to the santa fe ring. which was the first and perhaps the most notable political

machine in new mexico politics in this era. the group was dominated politics in the 19th century, counting among its ranks every governor, almost, and most federal officials from 1865 to the late 18 eighties. whatever these delegates interested in? largely the same thing territorial delegates from many territories, nebraska, kansas, wherever, desired. there was infrastructure improvements. postal roads, railroads, improvements to harbors and waterways, those things that would spur trade and business, population growth and lead to stability in the territory and put it on the road to statehood. the one outlier in the story of territorial delegates is romney lotto pacheco california. who was the first hispanic american to serve as a fool representative with voting rights. he also chaired the private allana claims committee in his final term. and, like new mexico delegates,

he's interested in internal improvements in california. it is important to realize that with pacheco, with the exception of pacheco, all of these delegates were constrained by these institutional -- new mexico delegates could not serve on the committee until the house changed its rules in 1871, and allowed them to have a one-on-one committee. the very prestigious, coinage, and measures committee. it stands for territory with a lot of mining -- but not exactly the appropriations committee. they served a brief terms, usually just one in office, and then when somebody got a wild hair and decided they wanted to spend a second term, that set off an interparty fight that could be brutal and led to many contested elections. these individuals were very reliant on their relationship with key committee chairs, or powerful people in the house. we came across the wonderful

newspaper quote from the times, that summed up the situation this way, territories are really to be pitied. they are like children under a bed stepmother. there is no position of trying of that of delegates in congress, no votes, or various beggars relying on the help of members they have more than what they can do of trying to help their own constituents. >> the second phase in this story starts with the spanish american war, like the war with mexico in 1846. this is really another paradigm shift in the story. the central question for congress would become how or even if culturally distinct peoples from non contiguous territories, there were never contemplated or incorporated into the u.s. by a politic, could or in fact should be represented in the federal legislature. and after the u.s. assumed control of puerto rico in the wake of the spanish american

war, u.s. officials for geostrategic reasons and for economic reasons were loathe to give it up. so, congress passes the fork or act of 1900 which sets up what is in effect a colonial government for puerto rico, and creates the office of resident commissioner to congress. but it left the islands status ambiguous. puerto ricans at this point were in limbo there were neither autonomy's nor were they citizens of the u.s.. and the supreme court, a few years after the act, was no clearer on this issue within the forkner act itself. a language of gowns v. good well which was one of the insular cases, they tried to defined territorial status, had the phrase, and we use it as a title for this section, a territorial inhabitants were quote, foreign and in a domestic sense, unquote. resident commissioners found

themselves in a curious position. territorial delegates had been in this position in the 19 seventies. their powers were greatly circumscribed. and after presenting his credentials, as federate oh -- first resident commissioner comes in in 1901. -- federico degetau, in 1901, degetau was recognized after presenting his credentials to the state department, and the expectation was that he was going to lobby officials in government. not just congress but across the political spectrum. but the fork are acts and a big unity and company with this -- fitness for democratic government led congress to deny degetau floor privileges, he could not speak on the floor and he could not come on to the floor for many months until gradually these privileges began to be extended to him.

eventually, he got a resident commissioner, the second resident commissioner by committee assignments. and so, individuals who were in this position tended to act more like a diplomats, and lobbyists then legislators. and one such individual, one of the more important ones in this era was luis munoz rivera. a senior statements -- statement by the time it became resident commissioner in the u.s. congress. he had been a negotiator with the spanish 1890s, and a political leader in puerto rico in the 1890s in early 19 hundreds. he was a renowned poet, newspaper editor. i mean, a man of high culture. and he comes to the u.s., and he is in this position where he, after having struggled for so long to kind of carve out a measure of puerto rican autonomy, in the waning spanish

empire. he now had to face in sip it colonialism. he's a devoted and devoted national. but he also had a sense of pragmatism, he kind of understood in a basic way that puerto rico's chances for complete sovereignty, certainly in his lifetime were nil. and that he was going to focus on a system of promoting home rule and some measure of autonomy within the american empire. to that end, he's not to shape the provisions of a second jones act, which passed in 1917. the jones act, somewhat liberalized the colonial regime that had been set up under the fork or act. but it still kept power concentrated in a council that was appointed by the u.s. president. the governor of puerto rico were still appointed by the u.s. president and could override the acts of the puerto

rican legislature. rivera came on to the floor though, and he was so eloquent, to give us now the field of experiments invalid which we ask of you, that we may show that it is easy for us to constitute a stable republican government, with all possible guarantees, for all possible entrance. and he supported the second to jones act as a stepping stone to later reform. he passed away shortly after passing through the act. as it does, so often, and i'm happy to pointed out, the u.s. senate comes very late to this story in fact more than a century late as this is the first hispanic american senator, octaviano a. larrazolo. who is really a symbolic appointment as he is appointed in the late 1928. and he leaves at the end of congress in 1929, he is in poor health and he passes away fairly shortly after that. when he is most interesting for actually is his work in new mexico, in the territorial

government and then after new mexico, he becomes a state finally 1912 -- he pushes hispanic civil rights in the state level. so, it is a fitting appointment, but highly symbolic because he was not in this in a very long. of course another first here is dennis jarvis, who's the first hispanic american to serve in both chambers. and he is known best for his long senate career of course as he was one of the highest ranking in the 20th -- century because he chairs three congressional committees, one of the house, and he goes to the senate and chairs the public works committee which is a major part of this career. but his career, which is the new deal, and into world war ii makes him a transitional figure in this story. and he really is the first hispanic american member of congress who we can point to

and say, here is someone who is acting as a surrogate representative. he is advocating for people far beyond the boundaries of this district, or his state, and he is speaking for hispanic americans nationally. he does this with his work on the ferry deployment practices commission, and then also in advocating for greater puerto rican autonomy in the late 1940s. and this in the 19 fifties. so this storyline largely follows after world war ii, a storyline that we are familiar with with women and african americans. it is tied into the larger push for civil rights in the post world war ii era. and again, there are two principal strands post 1945. the first involves a mexican american stride towards civil rights, in the mainland u.s. which were enabled by chavez and other congressman.

and the second was puerto rico's evolution from a territory, the commonwealth which was made possible by a line of reform minded puerto rican resident commissioners. these strands were kind of widely divergent at the beginning of the period, but at the end of the come together, resources are pooled, agendas are -- that have been local or nationalized. there is a large grassroots movement. the community service organizations in california, groups like this, the royals about the end of the period which is a more radical political movements come together, and this is a period in congress where hispanic american members really serve a long institutional apprenticeship. the length of service increases for them, and they receive more prominent committee assignments. i'm just a handful of the people here, who stick out in this period, --

the longest serving resident commissioner for puerto rico. and the principal architect of puerto rico's move to commonwealth status in the early 19 fifties. he was widely respected by house colleagues. he had a close working relationship with the longtime puerto rican governor, louis moonless marine who is the son of moonless rivera. and that partnership ended or produced the commonwealth change in the fifties. lth cwhich increased puerto rican autonomy. another individual here henry gonzalez. gonzales gets a start in local politics, housing issues in the san antonio area. is involved with the pan american progressive association in texas. this launches his career of progressive politics. and in 1956 he becomes the

first mexican american elected to the texas senate. twice he filibustered measures in the texas senate that would have resegregate and texas public schools. that earned him a lot of national attention, and a great quote in time magazine that we came across, it may be some can chloroform the conscience, but if we feel long enough, we hate, and if we hate long enough we fight. he runs for governor in the late 19 fifties in texas, he is trounced. but he gets a name recognition. he becomes a viable candidate for a special election in 1961, in a san antonio district. and he comes into the house. and he serves in the house for nearly four decades. best known for his service in the house committee that he chaired in the late 1980s and 1990s, he passed a lot of important housing and banking reform. critical of the big banks, and also a proponent for many years

of opening up the rather secretive transparency. one other individual that i want to point out is ed woodhull from california. a lot like gonzalez, he came up through grassroots politics, he was one of the cofounders of the community service organization in california. a statewide organization that pushed hispanic interests. he's elected to the city council in 1949. and he's the first mexican american to serve on the l.a. city council since the 18 eighties. his welcome was a little bit rough. but he fit in and is very important in terms of a lot of programs that open up city programs. and housing to hispanic americans and a growing population in these los angeles. he will elected to the house in

1962 and served 30 years. and again, he rises the very high position in congress. it becomes one of the appropriation cardinals, chairing the treasury postal service. and general governments subcommittee. and i want to and hear briefly by talking about the last period of the book, which is post 1977. this is the main page of the website, where the entire book is available online. this chapter we titled strength in numbers and challenges in diversity. and it starts really with the creation of congressional's bennett caucus in the late 1976. five members, including roybal and gonzalez established the caucus as a legislative service organization that would follow, track, and influence policy affecting americans, hispanic communities. but unlike other congressional

policies, overtime, the diversity of the caucus, somewhat limited its legislative affects. it was open to members from both parties. its roster included members from across the country, that we're competing in regional interests at work that made the caucus act oftentimes more like an information clearinghouse than a legislative vehicle for moving legislation through congress. regional differences often splintered the caucus and hispanic americans, members were divided, for instance in the 19 eighties on emigration reform. and also on trade policy in the 1990s, which is nafta. perhaps the most raking future of this era as the numbers game that's going on with the civil rights act and voting rights act in 1960, in court ordered redistricting which began in the early sixties, open to new avenues of political participation for millions of

hispanic americans. voting rights act particularly, it's extensions change the face of congress in terms of african americans, but also in terms of hispanics. now in the case of the latter, two thirds of all hispanics who had ever served in congress were elected after 1976. elected after 1976. so that's a tremendous growth. we're now up to 102 hispanic members who have served in congress. in 1965 when the voting rights act was passed, there were just five hispanic members of congress, four representatives and a senator. in the 113th congress there are now 33 total, 30 in the house and three in the senate. so the numbers have gone up. these members have also chaired powerful committees and subcommittees, authored important legislation. they've been party leaders. they've directed national party organization, mel martinez, former senator, and they've held

cabinet positions. hilda solis and mel martinez. indeed, as the hispanic population in the u.s. has grown from 6% in 1980 to 16% according to the 2010 census, and as their advocates win powerful seats at the federal level, hispanic americans have become one of the most influential voting blocs in the country. gaining that reputation has never been easy an likely won't eefr be easy or simple or straightforward. the experiences of the hispanic members in that post 1977 period illustrate very clearly that there's no one person or caucus who can drive the agenda or determine the needs and the desires and aspirations of all hispanic american voters. this was very clear after the emergence of a separate congressional hispanic conference which was composed of republicans in the early 2000s. the caucus began to break over

cuba policy, so now there is a hispanic caucus and a hispanic conference. they're divided in a partisan fashion. this is perhaps the clearest side that political debate is alive and well in that community. but regardless, based on this long history, there obviously is much inspiration that hispanic members and those who study them can draw from the rich history and the hard-won victories over the years. we have 15 minutes left for questions. and i'd be happy to answer any. >> raise your hand so we can pass the mic to pick it up on the video. >> out of curiosity, how did you guys define hispanic for purposes of inclusion in this volume? >> that's a great question. >> was there a specific definition or was it a know it

when you see it? >> we relied on the hispanic division of the library of congress which polls new members of congress as to whether they identify themselves as hispanic. the interesting thing is in the 1980s it gets a little more complicated because tony yellow of california who is a portuguese descent lobbies to get on the hispanic caucus and actually goes back to the roman definition of hispaniola and claims portugal is part of that area that would have been referred to as hispanic. there are a couple members who come to his aid, bill richardson from new mexico and he's allowed onto the caucus. it kind of creates a problem in later years because there's actually been probably a dozen members of portuguese descent,

if not more, who have been elected since then. it's a matter of whether they identify as being hispanic or not. some do. some don't. we rely relied on the library of congress. another question that we had very early on was, you have the philippine resident commissioners from the early 20th century, and many of them have hispanic sir names, almost all of them. in working with the library of congress and hispanic division, we bowed to cultural preferences and were told filipinos regard themselves as asian pcific islander, so they'll be in that book. we relied on the guidance of the library's divisions at that point.

it's trickier, obviously, than women or african-americans. you can get on a slippery slope of cultural preference. and the book itself -- we've also been asked, i should add, latino or hispanic. we use the term latino/latina in the text itself. the title of the book was passed by congressional resolution. it was the title that the hispanic caucus wanted in introducing the legislation. so that's the title we went with. hispanic is still the census term used by the federal government. yes, ma'am. >> in regards to -- with regards to the need for translators, you mentioned that a lot of the translators were from the east and, therefore -- i'm finding this also occurred in new

mexico, obviously, but in southern colorado, those hispanic representatives had no english background, and the territory of colorado would not pay for the translator. so they also had translators from the east come, but then there were differences in political language that those translators couldn't help them with. >> right. >> can you tell me when the government then started paying for translators? >> we don't know that the government ever paid for translators for gallegos. based on anecdotal stories that we had come across, he's relying on the friendship that he's struck up in particular with missouri representatives who were bilingual. it didn't appear that he was paying for it, or not in any way that we could track, out of any house fund, like clerk

disbursement reports of anything like that. he may have been paying for it out-of-pocket. but it's hard to know. >> what do you think -- what are your thoughts on translator from the east versus maybe even a hispano who served in prior legislatures -- >> what's my thought? is there a disconnect? >> yes. did the translators have to go through some type of litmus test? >> i don't know. i would imagine gallegos -- gallegos in particular, and he's the one who relies on the translaor in this time period -- although luis munoz rivera, he wasn't fluent in english either, but he studied while he was here. he had a tutor. but again, there's no record of him ever appealing to the house for a translator or ever paying for translation out of his

office allowance, at least not that we're able to track. but someone in gallegos' position, who was very familiar with territorial politics under two different national regimes, i think would probably be savvy enough to overcome differences in translations. >> i also have a question on weights and measures committee. >> uh-huh. >> you said the house allowed the territorial delegates to serve in the committee? >> uh-huh. >> what year was that? >> 1871. >> 1871. >> yes, in the house rules. that was the one specific committee they could serve on for about two decades. then the committees are -- they opened up a bit. after awhile, they can serve on the territories committee. and after that there's another liberalization that opens it up later in this early 20th century. but for a while it's very

circumscribed. >> i don't have a specific question on weights and measures during this time period for the government. >> sure. >> but in colorado territory during the 1860s, they're changing weights and measures so they're no longer -- southern colorado could no longer use the spanish variance. >> same thing, no doubt in new mexico as well. >> is that kohei owes? >> yes, from el paso county. >> any other questions? >> a general question. in the process of doing the third volume, as you get later, have you had much or any or very

much overlap in women and african-americans -- between the three volumes. if so, how has that changed the way you've talked about those individuals or has it? >> in some aspects, the hispanic caucus and the black caucus do team up in the 1980s on certain issues, not so much the women's caucus. so i can't say that it's really changed the way we've approached the book. the story lines in that regard, they cross in terms of party association i think more than caucus one way or the other. but there are these -- again, i mentioned at the beginning there are these very clear patterns i the political process integrate into the institution. it may take many more years in

one case for one group, for one stage, but they're three very clear stages. for instance, for women, for a very long time, the early women members of congress from rank and up to world war ii purposefully, with the exception of rankin, did not embrace what you would call a women's rights agenda. they tried to minimize gender distinctions, figuring it was the best way to work into the hierarchy. it's the same way with the hispanic-american members up until chavez and the post world war ii period. there is the tension to the degree you're going to act as a surrogate representative. henry gonzalez was a co-founder of the hispanic caucus in late '76, but he is so turned off by activists and particularly

loraza, which attacked him in the late '60s and early '70s, he questions tactics used by activists and questions the legislative agenda the caucus moves to in the '80s. in the '80s, at some point, he stopped paying his dues. he is no longer on the caucus records. there's absolutely -- we have yet to find the press article that says, "today, henry gonzalez left the hispanic caucus." we know he lost interest. that's a story that, you know, is familiar with women, too. it's not -- they're not a monolithic block. there are the similarities, but i'd say that those are more kind of general ways in which these individuals interacted with the institution. in fact, the story of the

caucuses interacting with each other is a much -- there's not so much there. so -- >> in the 1850s, you mentioned giagos has no experience with the american political system. can you talk with which political system they were working with? >> he came straight out of new mexican politics when new mexico was a province of mexico. >> excuse me. my real question is -- >> sure. >> -- how difficult was the difference in changing for them, from the american political system. >> i think he wasn't familiar with the national democratic party. the democratic party in new mexico was -- had its own kind

of policy agendas. there's a great book that talks about this. howard lamar, which talks about politics in the southwest, he focuses on new mexico. but to make that leap from territorial politics to the national democratic agenda, i think, was tough for him. the governor of the territory at that point was david meriwether, who was a longtime democratic politician from back east. he served as a tutor for giagos. meriwether records it in his memoirs. i think once you got him into a legislative environment, he understood how thing worked here in d.c. he certainly knew who the two key committee chairs were, and he was convincing enough to get them to go onto the floor and argue on his behalf.

even though it didn't work. but there's parts of the story that, you know, we really have to -- there are a lot of gaps to the story. >> one more question? >> sure. >> the difference between english law and then spanish or mexican law that they had to work through. what might they have encountered with that? >> that's really kind of a territorial transition, you know, question, and i'm not so familiar with how to answer that. >> okay. >> i mean -- >> i think some of the justices had to work with that that were in the territories. you're right, yeah. >> the court justices from -- yeah. >> well, i believe our time is about expired. thank you, matt, for thatlso ta

created about mr. chavez and the movement he led. this en