wood, matthew spalding in the 1619 project. >> joining us on book tv is doctor deidre mccroskey. she is the author of over 30 books a long time economist with the university of illinois at chicago. her most recent book veteran human onyx is just out. when you mimi a human onyx. i am an economist also historian i've been a professor of english and philosophy. i think economics should not give up the numbers or anything like that. but it should add to it what we can learn from the humanity from shakespeare i learned a

lot every time i hear the flute and harp it is an all hands on deck idea we have to understand our whole life. and in particular always catch myself when it talk about adam smith. not only adam smith but his followers until now you think they can do economics just by watching people but watching

people not tell you about the meaning that they bring to their economic life. what is your job been to you? what does consumption mean to you? we as humanities consider and modern economics does not. i am in favor of human onyx. >> doctor, and your view what does a shakespeare or mozart add to our understanding of her economic life. >> they tell you why people do things the heroes are middle

class. one of the main characters there and the merchant of venice is a fool for love. what you learn from that is that shakespeare's time did not value the marketplace. it valued kings and queens and dukes and barons. in the church but not the marketplace. and so you learn what makes for a successful society. merchants are considered cheaters and manufacturers are making bad stuff we don't like

them we preferred the queen. you are not going to have a successful economy. there is one thing to learn on shakespeare. what you learn is deeper. you learn about forms you learn about creativity one of the futures of mozart. he doesn't repeat a lot. he repeats a variation. that is a lesson and creativity. it's central to the modern economy. there is lots to learn student

of mine had said there's a lot to be learned from curiosity. >> i can offer more specific technical reasons for wanting to do economics. but i think you get the idea. >> over the years we have talked to about several of your books. you've been on book tv several times. you have brought up your episcopalian roots and activities in the past. what about your religious life? does that play into economics and human autumn? >> right now i am working on a

book god in mammon. it was a word which was the language word for money. the subtitle is a public theology for commerce. it tries to show the they're not necessarily enemies. they can be enemies but you can have corruption too. not only in the marketplace. the uncorrupted version of these two that the profane can work together. so if you're going to

understand entrepreneur workers or for that matter consumers you need to understand the involvement with the transcendent, what is beyond when i was younger i had it mustang. and that made me feel so cool. is it cheap sports car how cool. that means that we invent the true volume. this word consumerism because humans always. [inaudible]

>> when it comes to ethics and morality, what is the role they should play in economics and human onyx? virtue ethics which is the take on it. all cultures have the confusion of the plains indians of christian, pagan, all think of the way to talk about virtue is a talk about individual virtues, courage just as the mode is the greatest of these.

tried to make up tricky my opinion is they don't work and that you can have to go back to more complicated system were you use what we know about courage we've been talking about courage in the hebrew bible the virtue of love using those in humans

especially is another example. designing and offramp you need cost and benefits. it's not the whole of ethics. it's the ethics in the economy. a small part of the organization to work well people have to minimally respect each other and actually love each other if your office is against all

which is the economics. at that so you think all of your colleagues are doing, that is not going to work well. self respect for you clear for the economy to work it's got to have available to it all of the ethical resources of the culture of human culture. >> you said earlier adam smith followers have narrowed his vision. what did you mean by that? >> adam smith most famous was published in 1759 for example

german translation he was in touch with the history, the philosophy with politics not sure the music later economist cannot be a good economist all you think about is the cost

versus benefit and you have a sociopath you are not doing economics and adam smith checks this make it easy and now it has become as easy as it can be. this is true of economics without the kids. i'm focused so thrilled hasn't struggle cost and benefits.

i think we need to get educated economics. >> you went from being a marxist to attending freedom fest. although i would prefer to get rid of the silly word libertarian people believe that no one should be afraid to a master, to a state all other political philosophies.

to treat people as sad or bad children. i think we should be treating each other as adults. becomes a crucial point of permission. he wanted to allow people to trade and go their way and live by themselves. not by themselves, who is a very socially oriented person.

for become an electrician if they want too. >> from your book bettering human onyx you write it needs to be explained in the modern social science history is not the industrial revolutions but the great enrichment. one or two orders of magnitude larger than any change in human history, what was the great enrichment? >> 's what we continue to do with cameras and lights and containerization all kinds of things. but we continued to do after 1800, is that as a criticism

it is to confine in time. it's all about the explosion to take off as it's what was called in the 18th century. there have been takeoffs before. they did not keep going. it was the keeping going that is crucial amount. that took a change in ideology. a change in attitude and attitudes towards merchants and manufacturers.

it has continued to this day china and india are going through it. come from this equality. >> the author of probably 30 some books professor deirdre mccloskey is called bettering human onyx. she has been our guest again on book carried using the

top at the box at the top of the page. good evening thank you so much for joining us live. my name is jake and susan and douglas dillon