>> author carol swayne, what was the 1776 commission and why did you become the vice chair? >> why did i become the vice chair? >> yes, ma'am. >> because i accepted and i was asked in december of 2020 and by then the election was over and i was told by a number of people not to take that position. i took it because i believed in the purpose of the commission. i think it's very important for young people to know about america's history. it's true history and so i made the decision to serve and i -- and i'm proud of the work that

we did in a short period of time, but, you know, for someone looking at the objective circumstances, it didn't make a lot of sense to them to take it because we knew that most likely our commission would be abolished. i did it for the good of the nation. >> what was the purpose of the commission? >> it was to -- for one thing the 250th anniversary of the declaration of independence will be in 2025 and so we were to come up with a plan or a method to study the constitution and to encourage, you know, schools to sort of reembrace america's history and it was to be a bipartisan commission. i think it was, not all conservatives, but it was put together after the 2020 election and so the people that chose to

serve are the people that really cared about the purpose and the mission and that's why i served and it was the only appointment i received in the trump administration and it was something that i believe in. i don't do things i don't believe in and i also can tell you that i've had 3 political appointments. i've had two from president bush and actually one from president obama because he reappointed me to the tennessee advisory commission, to the u.s. civil rights committee -- commission. and so i've had 3 political appointments and i've met 4 presidents in my life. >> well, in the 1776 report that came out following the commission, it's written in the book, you write that the deliberately destructive

scholarship shatters the civic bond that unites all americans? >> okay. >> and what was that deliberately destructive scholarship that you're referring to there? >> well, the -- the 17 -- before i was part of the 1776 commission i was part of 1776 unites that was started by bob woodson and the impetus probably behind the 1776 commission as well as 1776 unite was the 1619 curriculum put out by "the new york times" that was adopted by 4500 schools and we were very concerned about the historical inaccuracies in that report and how it painted america as a nation that was, you know,

racist from its inception and originally put the birth of the nation at 1619 rather than 1776. and so we were very concerned about our children making sure that young people understood america's history and the importance of the declaration of independence and we know the founders were imperfect, the people founded the nation because all human beings were imperfect but when you look at the document, when you read the document, i mean, it serves the hearts and emotions of many people and declaration, excuse me, i'm sorry. our constitution, when you read those documents, they are part of the founding documents of our nation and so we were very much united on the importance of people understanding the declaration of independence and

for me it's the declaration of independence and it's the constitution that i think is important and there are other things that relate to our nation's history including it's judeo christian roots that people need to know and understand. >> well, you referenced the 1619 project nicole hannah jones is the founder of that, here is a little bit from her describing it. >> we argue with this project that august of 1619 is our true founding year and that black americans as much as these men said in monument around capital city, i see the nation's true founding father. that that is our legacy and inheritance and in doing so in this 400th year that 1619 project will force us to tell the truth about who we are as a nation and who we can be and in doing so that we will stop hiding from our sins but confront them and work to make

them right. >> carol swain, what's your reaction to what nicole hannah jones had to say? >> she says it all. 1619 was the date, the year when the first africans came to america as inventured servants and probably for the first 25 years, i don't have the exact dates. i roughly know the dates but the blacks served along with whites servants, they were freed and many of them became professionals. they became the backbone of free blacks in america. if you have been to martha's vineyard, you will run across some blacks, i don't know if you're black or white, but if you're black you can be one of them who will proudly tell you they are descendants of free blacks and people descendants of

servants and up to 1661 if a slave converted to christianity, they were set free and so 1619 for a period there was servitude where people were released, some of those former -- former indigent servants, they got slaves themselves and then there was a period when slavery out of greed was made permanent, but if a person converted to christianity they were set free. that's part of our nation's history, the other part that hannah nicole jones and the 1619 project ignores is the fact that there were always white people who were abolitionist, they fought against slavery, there were whites that set up schools across the south to educate

blacks and all the historically black colleges were set up and funded by whites and so america's true history is a story of people working together and we made mistakes in the country but one thing about america is because of our declaration of independence and because of our constitution and judeo-christian roots, we work very hard to correct those mistakes and i think that's a part of the american story and that's why america became the envy of the world. >> in your latest book which is a best-sellinger now, blackeye for america, how critical race theory is burning down the house, you write that critical race theory is functionally speaking a new religion, what do you mean by that? >> well, critical race theory is first of all, it is a theory that is permeating every

institution in america and the people that are pushing that theory, they argue as you know that pretty much that america, at least, and i'm not going to talk about the world, there are other critical theory marsist roots that all whites are oppressors and they have, you know, racism in their dna, that they are born with a property inherit earns based in the skin color and that they have to consciously become antiracist by renouncing racism and there are lots of things about it but it has, people are supposed to confess our sins just like the religion and they are supposed to constantly repeat their sins

but there's no redemption like the christian religion, there's redemption, you confess one time and not constant confessing of sin and argues that racism is permanent and minorities are permanent victims and it -- it's something that the people that are pushing it forward strongly believe in it but what i argue in the book is not just it's a religion but i argue it's racist and un-american and runs counter to civil rights law and constitution and that and it is the civil right issue of the day and anyone who understands the law it's wrong to demean, shame people and bully because of the color of their skin. doesn't matter if they are white, black or asian, it's wrong to demean and bully people because of the color of their skin and not all white people

have the same -- not all white people are similarly situated and not all black people are disadvantaged and it cripples our children as being taught and pushed in schools across america. unfortunately we will find it in secular schools as well as religious schools and it has become like a religion and something that people need to understand fully and that's one of the reasons that i wrote that book, a coauthored book but i wanted americans to understand what critical theory is, where it came from, how it impacts our society and how we can fight back against it. i think that's very important and that americans are seeking solutions and that they are uniting across racial, ethnic and political lines, they're

uniting against critical race theory because they know that it's morally wrong. >> professor swain, is there a conflict in your view between critical race theory and the judeo-christian heritage of the united states? >> yes, very much so. very much because i think all racism is sin as the bible talks about it and i'm speaking as someone that is a devout christian and i think that it is a sin problem. i also think that if we follow the golden rule to do onto others as we would have them do onto us that that would go a long way in solving our racial and ethnic problems and i think we have a sin problem in america that's racism. i also believe that blacks, whites as well as asians, any racial or ethnic group can be

racist. it's not something that only white people can be. i understand that that's what the marxists argue and that's what the critical race theories argue but they are wrong, any race can be racist. >> be the people, a call to reclaim america's faith and promise. in that book you write that people find it surprising that i take offense when i hear national leaders end their speeches to god bless america, why do you take offense to that? >> well, before we go any further with this chat, i feel like i'm setting on the hot seat. i thought we were going to have a pleasant 2-hour chat but i take offense because nothing about america that i feel that god could bless because we have strayed so far from our judeo-christian roots when it comes to how we treat one another and when it comes to

biblical principles and i think if you actually look at the founding of america and the charters of the 13 colonies, all of them were very much focused on christian roots and up until probably the 1940's it was very clear that this was the country that had values and principles or even the bible was used in some schools to teach children how to read as well as just principles and values about how the treat one another and so we are strayed far from that and you have a nation where abortion and especially in the black community where black women, 12 -- 13% of the population, they are getting more than 37% of the abortions, you have cities like new york and probably washington, d.c. and others too where more black babies are being aborted than are being

born alive and when you see the scientific experiments where they create new creatures by using human sperm and mixing that with animals dna to create new living creatures, these are things that would be very much abominations to the god of the judeo-christian bible. so i don't see a lot that god would bless about america as it is today because it's a nation that's turned its back on him and as i read the bible and you ask me what are some of the books that have impacted me, that was supposed to be part of our conversation and i said the king james bible, i do read the bible on a regular basis and when i think about god's judgment of nations i believe that the united states is god 'sjudgment and we can name a lot

of nations that hate america including many of us hate our own country but it would not surprise me if america did not follow into the hands of another nation and so i don't believe america would stand as america because it's being destroyed from within and without being fired. >> we always ask our in-depth guests what they're reading and some of their favorite books and carol swain listed the king james bible, booker t washington's up from slavery, victor frankil's man search for meaning and palo and currently she's reading balkman's social justice movement and evangelicalism looming catastrophe. professor swain, what's the book

about? >> he's a southern baptist and i happened to be a southern baptist as well and he is writing about how critical race theory has impacted the baptist church and the baptists have been one of the most largest and conservative protestants groups in america in 2019 they passed a resolution at the southern baptist condition to use critical race theory and intersectionality as analytical tools in understanding race in america. and so a lot about his book and i've not finished reading it but it's talking about critical race theory, what it is, it's marxist roots but also about how it impacted and turned it apart and ill not be surprised at some point in the future if the baptist didn't split the way the other denominations have.

>> now why are you in nashville? >> why am i in nashville? >> yes, ma'am. >> that's a good question because i was a ten-year professor at princeton, you know, and and i ended up in nashville and so a lot of reasons, one thing vanderbilt university offered me a full professorship and at the time i was an associate professor at princeton and they offered me more money and i would say that that's part of the reason but i can also say that it was very rare for princeton professors to leave princeton, ivy league school to go to vanderbilt. it was 1998 when they approached me and at the time vanderbilt was not the world-class university it is today and when i told people i was going to vanderbilt, they said you are going where? vanderbilt, where is that? and i made the transition.

i accepted the contract. i physically moved to nashville and i have put vanderbilt on the map, and now people ask vanderbilt, where is that? >> i will not miss when you retire from vanderbilt and what american universities have allowed themselves to become. >> yes, i did. >> what does that mean? >> well, it had to do -- i took early retirement. as a university professor with a full professor, i could have taught until 80's or 90's as long as i could make it across campus to my classroom i would be allowed to teach but i left because what i saw happening at the universities i thought it was very destructive with the political correctness, the demand for safe spaces and the

trigger warning and insanity that i felt was taking place. i felt it was like the inmates were running the prisons because the adults, the administrators, whatever the students demanded they caved so quickly and when i started teaching and when i was a student myself and as you know part of my background is being a high school dropout and going to a community college and earning college and university degree. so i have been a student as an adult as well as a professor. the universities were no longer marketplaces of ideas and so what i found was too much indoctrination and the critical race theory started at the universities but i watched it permeate every sector of the university including, you know, education and the sciences and so i did not like what

universities were becoming and in many ways they have become a destructive force in our society and they are responsible for a lot of the turmoil and unrest that we have and i think it's a shame, the antiamericanism, they are allowed to take place and for the most part they are not many conservatives on campus now and i was not a conservative, i was not a republican, i was just a good democrat but i had common sense and so my research got lots of attention because i've always asked, you know, difficult questions. i've always seen things that other people didn't see and my work has been considered pressing and i have some kind of gifting that i'm able to see things that other people don't see because i make connections and when you say what brought me to vanderbilt, i can answer that

as a christian. at that time i was going through transition and i had -- this was after my tenure at princeton and i was on this spiritual journey and now i would say well, god ordered my footsteps and god brought me to nashville and to vanderbilt. it certainly wasn't something that made a lot of logical sense. i didn't have family in nashville but i made the decision. i don't regret it. i love nashville. i even ran for mayor. >> carol swain, when and why did you become a conservative and/or a republican in your lifetime? >> okay. i've always -- i would say i've been a deep thinker and i always wondered the why, the why the what and the meaning of life and been on a journey and i would

say that i was always in many ways a spiritual seeker and after my tenure at princeton and i found myself in a situation where i was earning more money than i ever imagined in my life and coming from poverty, you know, i was -- i was earning a lot of money and obtained the early tenure at princeton which was my goal, normally 7 years to get tenure. i set a gel for 3 and i ended up going up for tenth year and awarded in the fourth year and i was very disillusioned and so i started this journey that took me through new age, religions, eastern religions, whatever was religious i studied it and it culminated with my having a

full-blown christian conversion experience in the baptist tradition they would call it a born again experience and what's really interesting is that this happened between the time -- it happened as i was negotiating, it was taking place during the time i was negotiating between vanderbilt and princeton and it was not obvious to a lot of people that i was going through this transition but vanderbilt hired me in 1998. i had the christian conversion experience in 1999 and i sured up in nashville in 2000 as a new christian, born again and it's not something that i expected or i planned. it happened and as i grew in my faith, i became more and more conservative. so i think it was a combination of things that caused me to

become conservative. the christian faith and being around people that i think shared my values but also think the world changed in crazy ways and when you do have a true religious conversion experience you've think about eternity and which what's is really important and so all of those things happened and they impacted me and helped make me who i am today. but i did not become a republican right away. i became a devout believer in 1999-2000 while at yale after i had finished, you know, i had earned 4 degrees and i had earned my tenure at princeton, i went back to school and earned a fifth degree at yale and while i was in new heaven, that was when i became a devout believer and i even contemplated at that time leaving academia which i did not

but 2000-2001i became an independent. i stopped calling myself a democrat and in 2009 was when i officially became a republican. but 2008 president bush appointed me to the national endowment to the humanities and to the tennessee advisory committee, to the u.s. civil rights commission as an independent and being on the commission as an independent it -- i had lots of exposure to different types of people but i had exposure to more and more republicans and it was a combination of the party platforms, what the republicans stood for, what the democrats stood for that encouraged me to make that transition. >> what's it been like to be a black conservative woman in

academia? >> well, you know something, i went from being a hot shot to -- to becoming a perriah and so there were times that were very difficult because people do treat you as if you are -- you lost your mind or you're the weakest link, you're not smart, you're stupid and all of those things, when you're a christian and i think being black and being a christian and a conservative that all of those things made it difficult in the beginning, but i've reached the age and the part where i really don't care. i'm me, this is what you get and so i accept myself and i found a lot of other people do and it's not just white people. i have lots of support in the black community. i may not have support among black elites but i have a lot of

support among real people. >> now, carol swain, you referenced this a couple of times growing up in rural poverty. what was bedford, virginia like in the late 50's and 60's and what was your early life like? >> well, i grew up in the country and the house that i remember as the first place i livered was basically a two-room shack and my mother and stepfather, they slept in -- in one of the rooms which would have been the living room and the children slept on the kitchen floor and then later my stepfather built two rooms on the back of the house. he was not a good carpenter. recently maybe 10 years ago i revisited the house, his part of the house, his new edition had collapsed into rebel but the original two rooms were standing and the house had no indoor

plumbing and i noticed, you know know, when i revisited the house as an adult, it didn't have drywall and had cardboard and wall paper and fake brick siding, a tin roof, those leaky at times and that was the first house that i remember. .. .. didn't have sliced bread for lunches so all of a sudden my siblings and i would not eat our lunch is in school, we would eat

before or after because we didn't want to be teased for what we were eating and i can remember my mother would not sign us up for free lunches that free lunches were available, free books were available, she would not sign us up because she said if we didn't take charity and so i would do my homework and school. i think my older sister probably did the same thing because we belted did very well in school and there were times when we may have missed. in fact, there was one year we missed 80 of 180 school days. we all fail that year, but i can remember missing a lot of school, coming in and still making and a or b on a test and when i think about my mother, she's very intelligent and she could have easily gone to college if the circumstances had allowed that, but she had polio. that was one reason she didn't finish high school, but she was very intelligent and so is my grandmother and parts of my

family, so i grew up in that kind of a poverty. i grew up in circumstances where sometime during the winter when it snowed, we would stay at home because we didn't have snow shoes and i think the year we missed 80 days of 180, was the winter when there was a deep snow and we stayed home until it melted and it melted in the spring? host: you mentioned in a free show-- and the preshow that your mother is 91 sb 291 sp1 and living with you in nashville? guest: yes, she has lived with me at least 10 years, maybe longer and seven of my siblings are alive, but pretty much i was the one that got out of the poverty and i can tell you as a child i was different. my mother said i was different, that i was very serious and i always had a sense of urgency and felt like there was something i

was supposed to do and i ended up getting married at 16, having my first child at 17 and going through a period of deep depression, suicide gestures and i had people come into my life who changed my life with their word. when i think about where i was and where i am today, you know, it's a miracle and i do believe in god and i had no idea that i would ever go to college. i was painfully shy. in fact, i was shy most of my life even into my 40s. during that time at princeton i had an opportunity to be on "good morning america", one of those shows and i turned it down because i was afraid. it was my first book and i had an opportunity, turned it down, too afraid, but when i wrote the new white nationalism in america challenging integration i felt the book was so important that i had to

talk about it and share the ideas and so that's when i started forcing myself to do media. i got media training and then the rest is history , but i had a painful shyness. some of that shyness, though, left me after i had that christian conversion experience because after that i really focused on the fact that it didn't matter at if people laughed at me or thought i was stupid or crazy, the only person i had to please was god and i feel that way today and so i realize even with an audience there are probably people that will be very hostile and i love the people. i love america, but i don't care what you think of me. i do what i believe is right and i just believe -- i do the best i can to be a good person and to do what i think would help others. host: back to your book, "be the people" and this is a story you shared with tony ravel morrison,

quote as a child i often escape into my own fantasy world. in my world i was not black, i was not poor and i was not female. what was tony ravel morrison's reaction to that story? guest: you know, she said that it was amazing or something like that that isn't-- even even as a child-- i forgot-- you have the book in front of you, whatever i said in the book is what she is said. host: it she said you knew enough to want to be the best thing that you can be in america guest: yeah, that's why she said [laughter] host: did she mean white male and rich? guest: i guess she thought the sense of being privileged, but my childhood fantasies, it was like okay as a child i read mad magazine, i read it richie rich and some in my fantasy world i was kind of like richie rich

except-- i would put my character in all sorts of situations and i was thinking of my narrative and so that's sort of how i guess i got through that poverty and a lot of those situations, but once i got into my late teens and got married i thought this is weird. i should not be doing this so i forced myself to stop. i can tell you that young mabel could do anything and when i think about you know that me now, the older me, the older me can see all of the reasons why something might not work and so the older me is more cautious, but the younger me believed i could do anything and i didn't see myself as handicapped because i was black or a woman. i come from poverty. i don't coming you know all these things, i don't have any money and i can also tell you that i thought as a younger

adult that you had to be rich to go to college. i did not know that people who were smart and black that they were all these opportunities and scholarships and maybe i would have learned that if i had not dropped out of school after completing the eighth grade, but i didn't know these things until i learned about it later and i have also shared with people that as mentors, all of that almost all of them that came in my life and encourage me did not look like me. they were white and some of them were white men pick some of them were white women but they encourage me and i found at the black schools that there was less interested me because i was not the teacher's daughter. i was not the doctor's daughter. i was not the dentist's daughter, i came from poverty and within black schools in black communities sometimes our own look down upon us and then willing to offer a helping hand.

of course as you can see i'm dark skinned and i think that the lighter your skin is in america the better you do and that prejudice extends in the black community where being light skinned gives a person enormous advantages. that's just the way it is and i believe it is that way worldwide based on research i have read over the years. host: carol swain has a masters in political science from virginia polytechnic institute, phd in political science from unc chapel hill, masters of the studies in law from the yale law school, prior to all of that you got a ba degree in criminal justice from roanoke college. why criminal justice and when did you veer off of that? guest: you also missed probably my most important gray, which is an associate degree in business,

digit-- business merchandise from virginia western community college and i can tell you that initially i was interested in art. i have art talent. in fact, i recently signed up for a drawing class and have done some painting. i was told to be practical so i always kind of that followed the of mentors and people who were positioned to give me advice and so being practical i went from wanting to be an art major to doing business, which was difficult because i did not get the math and a lot of the english that i would have-- excuse me-- that i would have gotten had i attended high school so i had a high school equivalency before i entered the community college and i graduated probably with a gpa of 2.8 or something like that. i made the dean's list a couple of times and when i studied i made the dean's list. when i didn't i didn't,

but i got that bachelors in criminal justice because when i applied for jobs with a two-year degree in business i applied for jobs to be a floor manager and i was told i needed a four year degree. so, i decided okay i need a four year degree and i also need to be able to distinguish myself because i filled out enough job applications where i saw places that i could have distinguish myself if i had awards and honors and things to put in those places and so i made the decision that i needed to get another degree and i needed to be an honor student and i went through the college catalog and chose the field that had the least amount of math and i knew that i would do well in anything that was not too heavily mathematics, so i chose

criminal justice. i also chose it because it was a combination of political science, sociology, philosophy and psychology and those were things i was really interested in and i made that decision that i was going to be an honor student. i was working at the community college library at the same time, 40 hours a week, and i went to school full-time and i worked nights and weekends at the community college library and i read and purchased books on how to make a's in college, how to take objective tests, how to take essay exams and as you know i graduated magna cum laude and i won the prize for the highest gpa in criminal justice and i started a scholarship to while i was at the college for minorities that is the

constance j himmler scholarship so i worked full-time, i was a mother, sometimes having to take my children to work at night and went to school full-time, started a scholarship and that scholarship is still there, but criminal justice was chosen because it was a field i thought i would do well in. how is that for honor student? host: while, i agree with the math thing. well, welcome to in-depth, thank you for joining us here in book tv. this is our monthly in-depth program with one office-- other, his or her body of work in this month as professor and author doctor carol swain she started writing books and getting them published in 1993 with the black faces and black interest, representation africa-- african americans in congress and the next book came out in 2002, "the new white nationalism in america", debating

immigration came out in 2000 people, "be the people: a call to reclaim america's faith and promise" abduction: how liberalism steals our hearts and minds" came out in 2016 and she is a co-author of the "the 1776 report" which came out in 2021 as did "black eye for america" "be the people: a call to reclaim , currently a bestseller. we have been talking for about 35 minutes and now it's your turn to join the conversation. we welcome your questions and comments for care of swain. 202-748-8200 for those of you in east and central time zones. now, we will give it their number and this is for text messages only and if you send in a text message please include your first name in your city so we can identify that way if your 20 sue-- 202-748

202-748-8903. again that is for text messages only. now if you cannot get through on the phone lines and you want to send a comment via social media we are on instagram, facebook, twitter at book tv is what you need to remember for that. before we-- guest: can i get something in? host: yes, ma'am. guest: i want viewers to know that there's an editing a book on action that i did and then there was contemporary voices of white nationalism that was edited and then i have a new book coming out next week on countercultural living where it -- what jesus has to say about life, marriage, wraiths and ethnicity, gender and materialism and that will be my first christian book. host: that is countercultural living what jesus has to say about life, marriage, race,

gender and materialism coming out later this year or next year guest: later this month and i think that release date might be september 13. host: and are you self-publishing that like you did "black eye for america" 32 now, that will be published by renewed dog org, but i'm working on a new book. i have a company called unity training solutions.com. and i am working on another book about the birth of unity training, how i came up with idea. so, i can tell you at this stage in my life and thinking about people's time and their needs, i'm writing shorter books and i'm writing them more quickly. host: what was it like to self publish "black eye for america"? guest: well, i mean, i had an expert guided me through the process, but anyone that's publish an academic book and maybe not even an academic book knows that the authors get lousy

deals. they get a small fraction and the publishers don't always invest that much in marketing the book and so the author has to market the book anyway. then, you don't own your own copyright and i just had a bad experience with one of my books and i made the decision that i wanted to own the copyright to my materials and that's part of why i self published and at some point i will write my memoir. i might use a traditional publisher but i don't really see the advantage of using one anymore because i can hire experts that know how to do the cover design and how to take it through the process and there are companies like ingram sparks where they can get your book in all the major bookstores and on amazon , so i don't see the need to have a traditional publisher. guest: of course, if i were an

assistant professor somewhere i would have to have a traditional publisher, but, i mean, i published at cambridge press, harvard press and other major presses, so i don't need to prove anything. host: what do you mean when you refer to the new white nationalism, your book that came out in 2002? what does that phrase mean? guest: first of all at one time i thought it was the most important book i had written in my life and maybe it was, but then with that new book "black eye for america" i now think that's the most important book and certainly the only one that was a bestseller. the new white nationalism did well. i think that the publisher title the book i wanted to have a different title, but what was knew about white nationalism, i thought, was that it was not the old style white supremacy neo-nazis and all of these things that people were focusing on

like whenever they talked about you know whites and white extremism, they would try-- trot out the clansmen with the missing teeth and the beer gut and person that could not string together three words for sentence. here today with trot that out and say all these ignorant stupid people, they are not capable of doing anything and i was interested in people that were putting forth a different kind of argument that was more intellectual. what got me really concerned and was the impetus for the book was that there were some high-profile hate crimes in the late 1990s an early 2000's where people went out and actually shot and killed people by their racist. i mean, that's not happening today at the level it was happening backbend. i became especially

concerned when there was a young white college students who had his mother, i think, was a realtor and his father was a doctor or something like that and he had an asian girlfriend and he went to college and he was radicalized by something called the world church of the creator, which was a neopagan religion and he went out and shot -- i think he killed it to people, but he shot 11 and then committed suicide. that's what got me interested in the book and i commissioned interviews with people that seem to be leaders of white rights, white nationalist organizations at the time, high-profile individuals and i had a white interviewer and that's what got me interested in it and what i found was that there were conditions where i felt converging

and at that point in american history that would create a devil's brew for racial unrest and i found that the language of the political left, the multiculturalism, the identity politics that it provided an argument for really all groups including whites to self identify by race to organize and the problem with the identity politics in the multiculturalism which really was saying that every group needed to organize and focus on their history and needed to do these things, but not white people and there was a double standard that i knew that would be problematic for young people and so i felt like the new white nationalism that we need to be concerned about was more intellectual. it's not one that was necessarily expressing

violence. it was very much focused on double standards and on perceptions of violation of civil rights. when i look at what's taking place today in america, i think very much about that book and i think about the warning in the conclusion of the book was that we needed to move away from identity politics towards the american national identity, that it was not good for us all to focus on our own group. what we thought was good for our group and not look at the whole like all americans, this is a multi ethnic multiracial nation, and it would not work if everyone is only trying to advance her own group interest. host: let's take some calls for carol swain starting with the glenn entry linda, michigan. glenn, you are on book tv. caller: thank you all very much. i am a big admirer of the professor.

my question-- actually i just want to make a little comment first. i think she is exactly right about america destroying itself from the inside and actually i'm surprised these radical move like al qaeda and isis haven't caught on in a big way. they all declare they are fighting white racism and that kind of stuff and yet we probably have people here taking a need for them now. anyway, my question is about afghanistan i was wondering what the professor thought if there were any lessons that can be learned yet from our defeat their and it is a defeat. no one should fool themselves about that and also, does she think we have a moral obligation to take in a big number of afghan refugees now? host: glenn, thank you. carol swain, anything that you want to address? guest: i mean, i'm just not an

expert on foreign policy, but with afghanistan, i don't think it had to happen, the exit the way it did. i think it's a disgrace that we left americans behind because in america we are supposed to take care of our own and if i were traveling overseas and there are people that travel all the time. as an american, i would be crushed by the idea that the state department, that the military that they aren't going to rescue me and it was just a disgrace what was done there. it even makes you wonder if the biden administration was being advised by islamists because everything that's happened benefited them and left billions of dollars of equipment behind. we left americans behind to be hostages. we have left behind the people who work for us and risk their lives. we have left them behind in its evil what we did and i see america-- god

is not going to bless america because america is a evil nation right now. not all americans are evil but our nation as a whole is quite evil and i don't see any good coming from it. as far as taking in refugees, the problem with the biden administration as far as i can see is that they are not taking in the right refugees. if the reports are to be believed that there are afghan men that bringing in child brides and the marriages are taking place just so that young men who it may be part of the taliban or al qaeda so that they can come into the u.s. i think we are opening up the floodgates to terrorism and so there's nothing wrong with taking refugees for the right reason, but i think that the islamists have a lot of importance-- influence over the u.s. and our politicians. i think it's monetary that congress has been

bought and paid for and this includes some republicans as well as democrats, so i have bipartisan criticism. i just think what we did was terrible. it's horrible. we have lost respect around the world, and i don't know how we regain it. it troubles me that we have done this horrible thing. host: duane is in greenfield, virginia. duane, you are on with author carol swain. caller: yes, ma'am, the first, and i would like to make, you said you were dark skinned. i don't see any skin-- i seen the glory of god all over you. guest: thank you. caller: i want to thank you for your life, thank your mother from me for your life and when you started talking about your religious experience that she

experiences, the hair on my legs, my arms in the back of my neck stood up the whole time you're talking. i just consider you a sister in christ. guest: thank you so much and i consider you a brother in christ and you know there is one race, the human race and the book by victor frankel, man's search for meaning, it's that there are two races of that man, the race of decent men and the race of the indecent, so there are decent men and there are indecent men, but there's only one race and that is the human race and if we would just show some love and respect for one another we would be able to get along and we would not have these problems in america that have been manufactured by people that hate america. host: and that goes back to carol swain's favorite book list that she sent to us from the

king james bile, booker t. washington, victor frankel's man a search for meaning and pollock wallow the alchemist. cornelius, alexandria, louisiana, please go-- i had with your question or comment. caller: i want to thank c-span and god bless everyone and being an african-american mrs. wayne, i hope you do a book to her and stuff, like i said i'm in alexandria louisiana. we have a bible college named louisiana bible college and doctor brewer i think you would be a great guest to have to talk about your book and everything so i don't know if you are going to do a book to her or anything like that. i served in the military. i was a military police officer and a staff. i'm glad to the caller and questioners are asking you about afghanistan. i didn't serve in that war. i served from 79 to 94, but i hope you will do a book to her work i plan to your book.

i hope you two are some colleges and stuff and god bless you and god bless america. thank you, mrs. wayne. guest: thank you. host: and it do you do book tours? do you enjoy them? guest: when people invite me too speak, but i self published my book so i don't have a publicist like people see me on tv. i come when they call me so c-span or msnbc or any of those places, you contact me and i always say yes because i think we need to do more conversing with one another and i think the solution to our race problem if we would just sit down and talk to one another that there would be greater understanding and less hatred. host: texas, please go ahead. caller: yes, thank you for the show. i believe there is the human race, but i

believe that in the book of hebrews in new testament the word of god says that we must run the race of life with perseverance and witness to cheer us on. how we live our life. what would be the legacies we live and the thing i get confused about, the 1619, 1776 and a 1665 which was the founding of saint augustine florida, the expander it's, so these different dates, there is a rolling number, but the 1619 is more of a english-- if we base things on the slavery and the expansion of it, it was based on english colonies whereas the spaniards in the french were different in the

sense of their catholicism and then their religion and their culture. let me ask you a question about the issues when we talk about america being great. do you think we are being deprived or that we lack the incentive to be multilingual if we are going to be a great basin because english-- guest: i'm sorry multilingual? caller: multicultural, if we are a melting pot, should our language be more than just english?

>> i was in the tokyo airport in great pain and i had to without an interpreter go to a pharmacy in the airport and try to use my hand and gestures and stuff like that to get medicine . i would hate to imagine what it would be like to be in a country where you did not speak english so i think that for most americans if they're interested to know other languages, but i also think that holt told the nation together you need a common language, a common, it has to have a common set of values but also a history and a 1619 project noted historian pointed out the inaccuracy

and some of them have been corrected but the whole idea that that flawed project would find its way into 45 countries schools, i find it very troubling as do i find teaching young people to hate america and really take each other because you're dividing our young people, children don't naturally think in terms of race. and thenthere when they're playing together they're playing with their friends . they're playing with billy or sally or whatever. the name is. and then they're not thinking my black friend or my white friend. it's only later they get racialized but the critical race theory agenda argues that babies as young as six months can be racist. and that young people need to be taught to see race and i would argue that there's one race, the human race and we

should not be focusing on our differences, we shouldbe focusing on our common humanity . >> posted on her facebook page when i was a young man aggregation existed. i always worked to bridge that gap having close friends from many ethnic groups and i'm fully convinced that systemic racism does not exist in america although it is clear a small minority would like to create this division. >> i tell people that i was born 1954 and there was the year that brown versus board of education voted the segregation case. that ended discrimination in public schools throughout america. in virginia, we were the state of massive resistanceto integration . so i was born in 54. it was late 68 i believe when we were integrated in

virginia virginia i watched on television the civil rights movement take place and i watched the signing of the 1964 civil rights act. the 1965 voting rights act. the 1968 open housing. and i watched systemic racism in america collapse under the weight of love and it was on the law. the discrimination and prejudice that still exists in america and in the world, that is because of individual discrimination and prejudice. we don't have to systemic racism in america even though there's some people that are trying to bring it back. and the viewers that may describe themselves as progressives, what progressives are doing, there reset creating our children . in colleges and universities to encourage separate dorms, separate class sections, separate

graduation , separatism and there's some public schools that are sort of separating the black years because that was part of what the civil rights movement fought against and it's a violation of civil rights laws and i would encourage people if you don't agree with that and we've already made a decision about what kind of nation we are when we passed the civil rights act and the amendment, we need to push back against this. this cuts across racial, ethnic and partisan lines. we do not need to be divided and this is wrong on many levels but it's also illegal and unconstitutional and my new book black eye for america are critical race theory and how it's burning down the house, it has two chapters on how to push back and we have to push back and i believe critical race theory and all this stuff taking place right now and it will collapse in the next

couple of years because it is illegal in our constitution and it is starting our children, all our children. it's telling black children that their victims and you look at my story, i was successful because i did not see myself as handicapped because i was black or poor and a woman and one point single mother. all those things i could have used as excuses i believe in the american dream. i worked hard and as a consequence, i have been able to overcome the circumstances ofmy birth, be the person i am today . a lot of people poured into my life and they were not all people thatlooked like me . >> if you can't get through on the phone lines you can text a message into carol swain. 202748 8903. again that's just for text messages. include your first name and your city. good afternoon.

>> caller: good afternoon sir. listening to doctor swain i must agree she sounds very impressive but there needs to be some classification made based on certain comments that she made. first she said systemic racism existed in 2021 but i disagree with that fact. we do have systematic racism and the next fact is you have black men that are being targeted by the police department and you have black men that are not given opportunities based on their qualifications and this goes for black men and black people as well. i understand that you are able to hold yourself by your bootstraps and that's great

but not everyone has the same ability but if we had and is in the system with everyone can do something that's in his or her god-given ability and there should not be an issue. the issue that we are facing in the united states of america is just that once you are a certain color , you are taught by certain institutions and iwould like to hear your comment based on the . >> are you going to let me answer? >> before we hear from doctor swain tell us about yourself. >> i am a teacher at a public high school and i understand the history of this country. 1619, we can go back and forth. we can call it big but the myth is the thing that split

this country is racism, racism and it is a sin and i would like to know what is the perspective on the new form of racism. >> we got the point, thank you so much, doctor swain. >> first of all, i empathize with the caller and his effective and i do have two sons, two adult sons. one is 15 and the other is 47 so i raise my children and so i'm familiar and i'm probably telling everyone more than they need to know that i've been married twice to a black man and so i know the perspective that he articulates. and you know, we don't have to agree on everything. and i think that it's important to look at the, as

far as the police are concerned, i think that if you actually look at the data , there are fewer, there's certainly fewer cases of black men being shot by white police officers today, i'm not talking about this year i'm talking about if you look at the historical data, things have improved and improved a long time ago and what happens often with the media is that they dotake the case, they replay it over and over again . based on a small of information and it is in flames the passions. i think in the black community, you have problems. and all of those problems are not related to racism. some of them are related to people's choices and their circumstances and we do have a right and an ability to choose and if you look at the

black crime rate and the black on black victimization rates, there are problems in the black community that caused them to have more interactions with the police than they should. and i think that for the black community to thrive in so many ways, that we have to focus on changing some of the behaviors in our own community. we have to take some responsibility. like people cannot make us, make things equal when there are other factors involved and if you look at the disparities when it comes to grades and learning, academic success, there are studies that show that study time, that black children spend the least amount of time studying of any group that includes the middle-class blacks and asians study the most, then white and it goes down with

blacks studying the least amount of time and if you look at the crime rates and especially the black on black crime rates, that is shameful and i don't think you can always blame other people because there's always been poverty there have been people like me and i don't consider myself the exception . i didn't say i myself up by my bootstraps, there are a lot of people that helped me along the way. there were many helping hands but i was one work hard and i did not have anyone telling me up there i was a victim. i couldn't do something because of the color of my skin or the fact that i was a woman or i was poor. i believed in the american dream and i did not have people telling me the negative messages that black children received today. they are victims andthat racism is permanent . police take them and are out to getthem . i know many police officers

and i know they have stories just like i have a story about why they became a police officer and in many cases these are people called into their profession and maybe as a child they had their own encounter with a police officer who rescued them. these are human beings and like any profession youmight have people that shouldn't be in it . but the vast majority of police officers are caring, loving human beings that are doing a job we need them to do and it's so unfortunate that we have this narrative that is anti-police, that is focused so much on the negativity because it is not constructive for our society and that's what i have to say about that. that's what thecaller had to say , idisagree with him . and i believe that the black community of which i am a

part, that we have to do more for ourselves and i don't believe in this equity thing where you get equal outcomes from unequal effort. i believe in equal opportunity. that's what i experienced was equal opportunity. i made decisions to study to become an honest person. i worked hard, i made decisions when other people might have been out playing or on vacation, i was hitting the books. and i worked while i was in college. i worked as a sales clerk that i worked in a nursing home. i work in a garment factory . i sold things from door-to-door so i'm not some person that has not worked menial jobs. and i know the possibilities that america offers. it's never been a better time to be black in america. i believe people should stop complaining. roll up their sleeves and start working because we've never had it better. so i really hate this critical race theory. allies it's telling our children and how common everyone, it is destroying america.

we are being destroyed from within with that negative anti-american messaging. >> angie is calling in from cincinnati, good afternoon . >> i miss swain. i want to say that you have just lifted my spirits today in a huge way. you know, i was raised to believe that i was less than. and that feeling less than took me to places that i don'tever want to go again . so i believe that being black was bad. because that's what i was taught. that i would never be anything more than just that and i bought into that for a very long time. i believe that what has to happen in the black community is we do to get together and

have some uncomfortable conversations about what's going on in our communities and have to take that upon ourselves to do just that. and that at that point, you've got to put the stick down, stop beating yourself up and move forward or you're going to bestuck . i've been stuck for a long time. i don't ever want to feel that hopelessness and that fear, that never again. i can't, both my kids went to college. both my kids are doing well and it's because we didn't. you have to break the cycle at some point. the mentality. >> you're so right and i can tell you about myself. we have siblings and siblings say things. i was called fish eyes and frankenstein. so i thought i was the

ugliest person in the world until i got into my early 20s and people started saying you're attractive. when imarried i didn't marry for love . i was so thrilled anyone would have me because my self-esteem was so low. and so those were things that affected the choices that i made. some of the choices i made but i don't know that it was about being black but i certainly felt awkward, unattractive. just the negativity so i made bad choices to area. >> next call for carol swain comes from lily in stevensville maryland . >> i just want to say thank you so much for just you being you. your life and all that you've accomplished . and your courage in doing what you felt was right regardless of the feedback

you got or the even abusive language, the things people said about you when you became a believer and did what you thought was right there. i wanted to also say to me, a lot of what many of our problems in the country it seems like their labels as race but i can just speak for myself. i feel close to people based on our spiritual beliefs. it doesn't matter at all what color someone is. it just is irrelevant or even our backgrounds. my background is very different from yours but we relate to all of because there are just some commonalities there also i am so angry about afghanistan and the way that has been handled. it seems to me there's sort of --

>> host: we appreciate your comments. anything else you want to address from an earlier comment ? >> the young ladies call, i understand what she said about faith and i think a lot of our problems would relate to socioeconomics. social class. because i was working in those menial jobs, i was working alongside more whites and we all wanted that $.10 for $.25 an hour raise. we all wanted it and we all needed. we all wanted better forour children . and i go back to one race, the human race and within christianity, if it works the way it's supposed to work we are all brothers and sisters in christ and welove one another . and my relationship with people of other races, i don't see their race, i just see my friends and i just wish people could love one

another. and not be so caught up on external things and things that don't really matter. and i just wish people would realize that there is an agenda behind dividing us and it's part of what'sdestroying america . >> in 2016 carol swain's book how liberalism steals our children's hearts and minds came out . and in that book she writes that the academic world is defined by cultural relativism. what is cultural relativism? >> it ties into again, this is part of postmodernism. and postmodernism, cultural marxism, all of these feed into critical theory. but it's like there's no absolute truth. all cultures are the same. and so there's no right and wrong. and that is part of the

message that you get at universities and with the culture of relativism , one time the political left said they could not judge, that there were no absolute truths but now they seem to have identified some absolute truths and in many ways, they become, they had their own religion going on and they're starting to move in and move out and who is to be canceled, and you know, we haven't talked about this but i would say i was canceled because of an opinion that i expressed. and it was it strayed so far from the whole idea of america being a nation where you add some freedom in our first amendment, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association that there are people that would totally append and destroy our constitution and so we

are regressing as a nation and as a people. and i think that with abduction, we wrote that book and is co-authored with a man that has been a pastor because he saw so many young people that were raised in christian homes and families that went off to college and secular college. not just secular college, it could also be a christian college . but they were questioning their faith and christmas they were atheists.so what the political leftthey have an agenda . secular and atheism, they just operate like a religion and we wanted parents to know what their children would encounter when they off to school and also what was taking place in our public schools even k-12 with the sexual agenda and various things childrenwere being

exposed to that many parents were not aware of . >> this is the text message for you. my name is ellen. what is your opinion of the new laws restricting access to voting in texas and georgia among others? >> i don't see new laws restricting access to voting. i think the voting rights act and its various extensions because it was first enacted in 1965 has been extended many times.the voting rights act was to remove barriers to voting. there are no barriers today to voting. and the stuff now with the ballot harvesting the supreme court has ruled against where people were sent absentee ballots that they didn't request and i know some relatives that in virginia who had never voted. the people showed up at their door, two or three people with balance, pretty much demanding that these people vote which they did.

this whole thing, this is not how a democratic republic is supposed to operate. and so i think that we need ballot integrity. i think it's problematic to have days and days where people can turn in ballots without really checking identification. i think there should be national identification. that is not a problem for americans because we cannot live in this nation without having identification. if you're on public assistance you have to have identification to be able to sign up to get a check. if you're on social security you have to have identification. it's not a problem so i don't see this. i think the democratic party i think the partisan but this divides parties and i think the democratic party has to

recognize they are using minorities, in particular black people to advance their own agenda . and that this whole thing about voting rights, voting rights are not being impeded. what they're trying to do is take away each state's ability to govern its own voting laws and to nationalize that. that is not in our interest for the federal government to have more power. so in georgia and various states there were things done in the last election, documented election irregularities put in place because of covid and i think those are measures that were allowed because of the pandemic that they should not be allowed in 2022 even though i think there's a lot of people who would like to bring back those restrictions and they would like to use it again. >> you mentioned being canceled, what happened.

>> it's a long story, howmuch more time do we have ? >> we have 35 minutes left. >> i've always been considered a provocative thinker . and i've always been transparent and it's like if i try not to be transparent it just doesn't work. i was born transparent but january 16, 2015. this was after the charlie have don't attack in france that happened ibelieve on january 7 . i wrote an opinion piece that criticized islam and i said that islam is not like other religions read that it posed a threat to us and i talked about the need for muslims to understand our constitution and our way oflife . that's set off a firestorm. nothing that i've ever done in my life was as controversial as that.but the day after i a newspaper published the article, i knew

that white people i've known in the past was over. and it resulted in protests of me and i was called a bigot and a hater. i was harassed. for more than a year. and it was a factor in my making a decision to leave academia and i have people lie on me and they were protesting, these were deemed stupid protests, they were not my students, not students that had evertaken classes from me . they were students from other universities that then there was a change.org petition, they had a petition to have me fired and then they realize she's tenured. then they wanted me suspended and they realize she's tenured, you can't do that. and they wanted me to be forced to go through mandatory sensitivitytraining . and they truckfound out they couldn't do that .

but it was a very stressful time in my life. i found myself labeled, harassed. marginalized. called all sorts of names. and it was very hurtful and two years later i made the decision to take an early retirement and a lot of that had to do with i didn't want to be in a stressful environment and if i age i'm thinking i cannot be doing my best work under these circumstances. this is not where i need to be. so i stuck out on my own and i started to businesses, carol swain enterprises, unity training solutions and i have a nonprofit 501(c)(3) and pretty much on out there in the world sharing my views and i say my classroom is the world. welcome to my classroom. my classroom is the world. and through videos and

various things i've been doing i've reached over 77 million people. far more people than i could have reached in a university classroom. so for those people who were trying to cancel me and to end my influence, by pressuring me they actually gave me a bigger platform. in fact the more people that attacked me morefollowers i picked up on social media . so please, attack me some more. >> we have 30 minutes left in our conversation with carol swain . dick is in monroe new jersey, go ahead. >> professor, thank you for your work. i really appreciate it and i see that you have much in common with other black conservatives like shelby steele or todd so well and others. and i guess i make an assumption that you

collaborate and support each other and now, i wonder with all that work from my perspective i think you're having an enormous significant impact on conservatives who are defined themselves as conservative but i wonder if you're having an impact on in your view on the black community at large and to move some of the black community towards a more consensus point of view? >> i think i am and i ran for mayor in nashville in 2019 and i made it a point to campaign in the black community. in 2019 my office was set up in a historically black area. and i greatly got to know people, they got to know me. i had a great experience and

came in at number two first election, number three the second election. i was grossly outspent by the other candidates and nashville as a city has never had a republican mayor.i ran as a republican but i have some democrats go up to me and it was a great experience but now i am working with the organization that focused and that started, they have a foundation and i've been to their rallies and i do a little short segment for them, a little show called against all odds where i talk about my experiences and i had met just a fourth of young black and hispanic conservatives. and some of them came conservative because they watched one of my videos or they saw me somewhere. so i have an army of young people and they're not just black. i would say they cut across every race and ethnicity.

who support me, who follow me . i love them and some of them they tell me i wish you were my mother or grandmother or you remind meof my mother or my grandmother that's okay . i don't mind being reminded of their grandmother. but i think i am making contact with young people and i think that we can do better in america. and it goes back to us, how we treat each other. and us seeing the humanity in all individuals and doing on toothers as we would have them do unto us . i hate the critical race theory and the diversity equity and inclusion training . that focuses on dividing america. that will not bring about racial reconciliation. wrinkle racial reconciliation for itto occur you have to have people working together .

working together acrossracial and ethnic lines . it cannot be an unequal relationship for one that's expected to do all the other work and the other groups is expected to receive. you have to work in equal partners. when it comes to the black community, one of the books that i talked about is as having impacted my life is booker t. washington's up from slavery. that's the book i read as a child. i believe it was a factor in my quest for education and 13 washington came out of slavery. and he was able to get an education because he wanted an education. he worked very hard for that education and he became the founder of the trustee university in alabama and i think that a lot of young people were talking about systemic racism. the racism, they need to reach booker t. washington's up from slavery and when we talk about black culture and

the racism of white people we need to talk about the fact that black wall street was established and created less than 60 years after slavery ended. so these were blacks that did not get government loans set aside but they were to build a community and a city, a part of town that was the envy of the area. and so the lights thatwere involved in burning down black wall street, there was a lot of jealousy involved . black success and it was not based ongovernment loans and handouts . >> what's your advice for somebody who wants to run for office? >> i think they need to sit down and figure out why they want to run for office. we have to many people that want to run for office. i think that we people who are not running for office they want the power. they want to go to congress

and they want to go somewhere and stay in office. we need people who are willing to make a sacrifice. they have something going for themselves. they're not standing, they are willing to step away from a profession or step away from something to pour themselves into the nation and for the betterment of everyone and that they're willing to lose all this if they are called to do something that's unpopular but it's the right thing. we have to many people that are there for themselves and so if you want to run for office, make sure that you know why you want to run for office. is it about you or is it about someone else? is it about the nation as a whole. too many people in both political parties should not be in power. >> would you do it again? >> ,me? i don't think i'm called to office. god called me to hold politicians accountable. if i were appointed to, if

someone approached me about an appointment, i wouldhave to weigh it very seriously . i've learned never to say never because if you spoken to me five years ago and asked me would i ever run for office, much less mayor. like, me run for mayor? maybe i would consider running for senate but mayor, i would say no. but i did run for office so i've learned never to say never. but it's not something that i think that i aspired to do. i think i can have more influence doing the things i'm doing right now. >> not berlin new york, we have offered carol swain. >> listen, i'm anyone. my wife and i have been married six years i think it is. we've set foot in every state

. i don't know how many countries. i was in themilitary 26 years but anyway , so we both are retired, retired now and i've done a lot of thinking about the status of our nation in general. so much is involves how children are raised. you need to have two parents and a family. that's number one. hopefully the gentleman with a wife also, are they working? and so i think our faith, my faith as a christian as i look back on my life, it's so key in terms of living a clean, proper, sensible life as i think the lord has prepared for us. and so when we don't have a parent, two parents in the family and we don't have to children, the good things the bible tells us that we don't

lie, we don't steal, all those things. so so many of our kids don't have that opportunity to know that that's the way that one should live.and. >> host: thank you for your comments serve. >> i agree and all this focus on systemic racism and inequity. research shows that a young person born in poverty, if they finish high school if they get a job, if they wait until they are married to have their first child, they're not likely to be poor and any household that is single-parent in it, whether by woman or man that is single-parent they're going to be poor. a lot of the problems do stem from poverty and the fact that you have broken homes yet we have people argue that the traditional family, that that's a european idea.

that hard work is a european idea. that massive standard english is racist. that planning for the future is racist. all that dooms people to failure because many of us who been successful and i'm sure that among your viewers we have a lot of successful people and people in professions, they know that you have to get to places on time and you have to learn math and standard english. there's so many things that having the moral background and the fiber of these values, those things are important. they don't belong to people, they belong to all people. see what she is the author of these books black spaces, black interests. which came out in 1993. thenew white nationalism in america, 2002 . the dating immigration in 07.

we the people result to reclaim america safe and promised a september 20, 2011. abduction, how liberalism deals our children's hearts and minds in 2016 and the 1776 report and a black eye for america, a critical race theory is burning down the house. both came out this year. and she has another book coming out shortly this year . counterculture letting, what jesus has to say about life, marriage, race, gender and materialism. carol swain, on your twitter. says we the people is your trademark brand. what does that mean? >> it's a call to we the people in the preamble of the constitution. to stand up and be the people who reclaim our nation andour world . and when i i was concerned about our country and that was the first book where i really focus on communicating

with the american people rather than with my colleagues. so on my later books have been books that were not for an academic audience with the exception of debating immigration and the debating immigration there are two volumes, 2007 and 2018. those are essays. they are supposed to be to a lay audience but these new books were really written for theamerican people . but i just wanted to take us back to our christian roots and there are some founding documents that i think every americanshould read . when i see every american i'm talking about immigrants and people that are here in america and want to be part of our culture and that would include the declaration of independence, the constitution and i would say even the 10 commandments in the bible because the 10 commandments have american

laws and values across our nation. that's what the blue laws came from and to understand america you have to understand the documents that people found important. and in the, that book be the people, there's a chapter on american founding and ideal with different sides of the issue.lots of citations and there's a book by craddick and more of the godless constitution that points out that god is not mentioned in the constitution and that was done because not because of the people were trying to keep religion out, they considered religion sacred and so there was a conscious decision not to have a religious document when they drafted the constitution. but i think every american needs to read those documents . and understand what it means because those documents laid the groundwork for everything

that happened subsequently, blacks being given the right to vote. women being given the right to vote. the civil rights act that followed. all that has come out of we are as a people and in america we've made lots of mistakes but we've always tried to remedy our mistakes. and we have, our nation became the envy of the world. i feel likethe america that i loved as a child , that motivated me to reach for the american dream, that that nation no longer exists. and i see that america is teetering on the edge of a precipice and i believe that we can fall to china, iran or any other hostile nation because we turned our backs on god. are a god driven nation. we deserve judgment and

that's why i came to say god bless america. i hate it when it comes out of the lips of people who are destroying america. >> another text, kerry in las vegas says i'm still trying to figure out how math is racist. >>. [laughter] me too. you think about the racism behind and this was a bill gates funded study. of ethanol mathematics. the young people that are being taught that math is racist and that teachers should notdemand right answers from minority students . those students would not grow up to be mathematicians, they would be doctors, pharmacists, nurses, anywhere you require a mass because it would be required to wear some masks and i as a person who struggled with now, i still had to learn math. i took math and community

college and i had to get through those statistics courses and my first book black racist, black interest i had multiple regressions in there. i had to learn it to get my phd. it was like water off a ducks back, i learned what i had to learn and i forgot it but i had to learn to get in school . >> april is calling in from santa monica california. good afternoon. >> first i'd like to say that i agree with the professor that we are one human race. that is why i actually would like us to stop even using the term racism referring to things as racially different and racially constructed because we are all one race and that's human. that said, this country that we live in is going through what it's going through was indeed founded on the myth of

white supremacy and i don't understand how teaching that is seeking hate. it's just teaching the truth. i'm married to a man. i love my white brothers and sisters and i want us all to do better and that is why i think it's important that the myths ofwhite supremacy be looked at . in full sunlight and that we acknowledge the fact that within these documents, these founding documents of the constitution, black people were said to be 3/5 of a human. of all the wonderful things that came out of the constitution be commitment to the constitution, the amendments . these are allthings that had to be followed for . and i daresay that knowing things of women who fought for years for the right to vote hated men. they just also wanted to be at the table with the men.

>> let me tell you something, i appreciate your call but that 3/5 clause of the constitution, you need to look that up because that's a false narrative . when the constitution was ratified it had nothing to do with black people being considered 3/5 of a human being. it has to do with representation in congress and it was the non- slaveholding northern states that fought for the compromise because during that time each state was awarded a representative per 30,000 persons and in the south they had 600,000 slaves . they were pushing to their slaves as population. the north would not allow them to do that and get them as full people because they have given them more representatives in congress so with the battle over how many representatives they were going to get in congress so the people that actually pushed for the 3/5 clause were the abolitionists.

so that's something you can look up even wikipedia get that one right. and so that's bothers me. like i was taught like you heard it and i heard educated people, some of them with law degrees repeating what is a false narrative and ally that is easily refuted by just going to the research and so as far as america being a white supremacist country, the first people here in this nation and we go back to 1619, america was not founded and 1776 with the declaration of independence, that was when the nation that we call america, the united states of america was founded. 1776, not 1590. then we were a british colony and the initial what we call slavery was a personal

indenture ship where people were released after seven years many of those people who have been indentured servants they themselves got indentured servants so they got slaves. and slavery became permanent much later and it was agreed that caused it to become permanent and there were always free blacks in america. they came here through the african slave trade. they came here through that but there were free blacks. many of them held slaves themselves, not just their family members so we want to talk about slavery we need to talk about the fact that native americans as well as whites and blacks held slaves. so slavery is a stain on all america,not just on one group . >> victor, canoga park california, go ahead with

your question four: >> thank you very muchdoctor swain. i've been following you . i've been reading your interviews. my quick question, before i continue, [inaudible] i have to question when did you become, when was this transition from a democrat or republican number one, number two i'm looking at a huge list of intellectuals like you in the black community that are republicans kind. democratic in the country, they don't even believe in systematic racism . but the blacks and leftists and the democrats, [inaudible] >> i think we've got two questions. >> i couldn't understand his questions clearly.

one asked me when i became republican, what wasthe second question ? >> the second one was black conservatives academic scholars are proud of the us view. while democrats are not so much. >> i stated earlier in the program that i had a christian conversion experience late 1990, 1999 or 2000 i became adevout christian believer and as i grow in my faith , i became very uncomfortable with the democratic party. if you are a christian and you read the platforms of the two political parties, they're very clear and very different but what they stand for i became uncomfortable with the platform and some things that democratic candidates were advocating but i was not ready to become a republican .

i became an independent and i was an independent up until 2009 and in 2008 president bush appointed me to the national endowments for the humanities and so the advisory committee to the us civil rights movement, civil rights commission, i'm sorry. those are the two political appointments and during that time i was appointed by a republican president. i started getting invited to various events and i got to know republicans personally and i initially was going to be the independent. throw rocks at both political parties but at some point i decided for one thing i didn't feel i could vote for the democrats any longer based on their party platform and what they stood for because of my faith. and i realized the republican party isn't perfect.

we're all in perfect. we're human beings but it did not align with what i believed so i made a decision in 2009 to become arepublican . that's how ibecame a republican . then black conservatives, they have varying views. there are different views of conservatism. i'm a christian conservative. some of them are libertarians. we differ quite a bit but i do think we all love america and we believe, i mean i grew up believing it was the greatest nation in the world but now when i learn more about things our nation has done and the shame of afghanistan and various things that our nation allowed to take place our history, i realized that it wasn't as great as i thought it was again we'reall in perfect . what we have in america is a lot of people i think that

want to do the right thing and i think that the african-american is not a race. they love their fellowman . they want to get along and this comes across whites and blacks read and also the average black person very much like the average white person, we have more in common than we do, we have more in common than we do in differences and that people just want to get along. live their lives and not be discriminated against whether you're white or black or some other group. we don't want discrimination and i think that if we did not have so many quote leaders out there pushing their own agendas that we would have a better nation and we would have a better world because the people that are leading us now are being paid off some of them by foreign powers and some of them are people that they don't care about the communities they represent.

they care about staying in office and we don't need any more political leaders like that so there's someone out there again, you're wondering whether you should run for office if you want to run for office for the power and it's not because you care about people or you care about making a better nationand a better world , you need to think of what you're doing. >> janice from delaware, let's try to get this last one. janet, newark delaware. turn down the volume on your tv. going to move on to john in hershey pennsylvania. you're the last color. >> is a great show. it's an incredible amount of respect for your guests. i believe she puts herself in a dangerous position with her political views being an african-american. and i shudder to think of the

threats that you receive. i just have a couple of quick comments. i happen to believe that two of the major evil or disastrous institutions in our country that have become disastrous or our education and the democratic party. >> we've got his point. carol swain, back to higher education and education and your book production. >> you want me to respond to the caller to mark. >> yes ma'am. >> as far as threats and fear, we're all going to die one day. and we don't know the manner of our death and people are terrified of covid.

if you're supposed to die you die and i happen to believe as a christian there's a time and place for my that's already known. it's written in the book and that i cannot live my life in fear. and i will live as long as god wants me to live so i don't allow threats. like people have taken everything from me they could have taken from me . and you know, yet i drive you and i thrive because of god's protection but if something should happen to me, i don't believe anything that happens on my work was done. and when my work is done it won't matter. so the most important thing i think for people to realize is that you're going to die. live for something that's going to make a difference for someone else. and what was the other part of the question? >> the most dangerous institutions in america.

>> i think that the democratic party has been taken over by a radical fringe group because i was a democrat most of mylife and the democrats were not always what they are today . for people who are democrats, you need to take your party back. because what i see in washington and what i see around me, that is not the democratic party that i grew around andi knew . and i live, i've lived long enough to remember the time when democrats and republicans worked together for the good of the nation. they were not as polarizedas they are right now . the democrats and republicans should have the national interest and because of the lobbyists and they get from area's interests, they're not representing us. there representing themselves. i don't know what to do about

congress. whether it's the executive branch, the judicial branch or the legislative branch, they have broken institutions and our schools have been taken over by the critical race theorists and it's not just the critical race here is. there are critical race theory. there's critical we're theory, feminist theory, they're dividing males against females, heterosexuals against homosexuals, blacks against whites, were people against rich people. it doesn't have to be that way . i would encourage americansof goodwill to push back across political lines, across religious lines . we don't have to live this way. we can restore our nation but we have to get rid of our leaders and we have to decide what's important to us and we have to reclaim the media. every institution has been taken over.

i didn't list 1984 as a favorite book but people need to read orwell's 1984 because we are living an orwellian nightmare and it d the christianity, not say i wrote the book out of a