with incredible credentials. now, you can -- president trump had jeff sessions and there. carrying out his agenda. president george w. bush had alberta gonzales. none of those are great, incredible legal minds. they were affected though for the time in which they were there in carrying out the presidents agenda. and that, i would contend that look would be in earnest of what tom clark working for truman. >> all of these are available to watch online at all time on c-span dot org slash history. >> it's such a pleasure to introduce doctor holly a. mayer who was a dear friend of mine for decades now. we were catching up a little bit on the terrace earlier trying to calculate the years, but it's been -- it was back in the 19 hundreds when we first met.

isn't that amazing how that sounds now? doctor mayer is now a professor emerita from the duquesne university and liberal arts, in my hometown, pittsburgh, pennsylvania. where she taught for many decades. she had two stints as a chair of the history department there as -- well after receiving your ph.d. de woo. she also served as the visiting herrell k chair of at the u.s. army war college. and is currently, during this academic year, at west point where she is serving as the visiting professor of history. she is also -- has been commission and served in the u.s. army reserves. so she stands a long time ago. but you still stand fairly

straight. your recognizable as a military person still. she is the author of a whole slew of articles about the military and history -- historical, i'm sorry, the military political social intersections of history in the era of the american revolution, the colonial era. her first book belonging to the army, camp followers, and community during the american revolution is still in print and it's an essential text for studying this period of time. but she is here to talk tonight about her hot off the press, i think this is hot off the pressed, a new book congress's own a canadian regiment, the continental army and the american union. what does canada have to do with the american revolution? join me and warmly welcoming doctor holly a. mayer. >> thank you so much, it is wonderful to be here with all

of you and to share in this community of history and the revolution in particular, and to of course examine this particular very unusual regiment, or none common regiments for an uncommon revolution as we can say for it. i'm starting off, and i just wanna point off, that that is an image, it is a painting that is on the cover of my book. so i figured i might as well say kudos to him as well for helping illustrate my book, as well as of course being here, and many of his other illustrations and paintings in the month that you will be able to see. well, it's well worth it. with congress's own, i want to talk a few things about the regiment in particular, and then spend more time talking about sergeant major john h. hopkins, who was the person who introduced me to this regiment through his writings in his

journal that i found at the historical society in pennsylvania. i wanted to take a step further to talk about this with you and make sure that i am going in the right direction here. it's to pick up and talk about the congress's own regiment which actually went through around three or four different names through its lifetime. as this uncommon regiment, it was first formed actually in january of 1776 authorized by the continental congress for moses haisen as the colonel and lieutenant colonel and toward until as the second in command. and it was commissioned as the second canadian regiment. it brings us up to this point about why canadian regiment. and i asked students at times, did you know that canada was involved? well, yeah, there was an invasion, the americans lost. they had to retreat from quebec, you know, by june of 76 they are gone and that's the end of

canada. well, no, not really. not by any means here. but while the american invading force was up in canada, it was already starting to recruit canadians to join in this rebellion. certainly, the continental congress was sounding out declarations to the canadians, especially french canadians, essentially saying, come join us! rebel with us! you know, and you might think it goes back to the enemy is my enemy, the enemy is my friend, so french canadians might have been the enemies of most of the new england years and people who had been fighting colonial wars with the french and indian allies through a series of imperial conflicts, but at this point it was, let's invite the canadians and because we truly want this to be a continental rebellion, let us have a true continental congress with canadian representatives, let us have a continental army which includes canadians as well.

as we invite others to join us and what was first, of course, a rebellion, a defense of the rights of americans, or these continental provincial's in the early part, and then after july of 76, ultimately, a revolution for the independence of the country itself. so they were joining us. the first regimen, or the first canadian, was by james livingston, who had already been an action up there, so he was the first canadian, and moses hayden got the second canadian. to give you a background on moses hayden, he had originally been a rogers rangers during the seven years'war, and then he had actually gotten a commission with the 44th regiment of foot, which ultimately led him to retire in the montreal region and ride around saint-jean in canada itself. so i'd like to point this out, here was an american who did get a british commission as

opposed to washington who did not. his inaction was really torn about which way he was going to go. he was getting a pension from the british government for his service during the seven years'war, he was right there on the borderlands, you can see it up there, in st-jean, south of montreal. would he give up those lands, that pension, to join in this american rebellion? at first, he wasn't sure. he was really on the fence on the borderlands, which way was he going to go. ultimately, at the, and of course, as we know, he decided to join with the americans, with the privy so that he could create his own regiment, the second canadian regiment in this case. so hazen it is not the person i want to talk about, i want to continue on with another one in other points.

the second one was an entry retreat in canada, and at that point it lost half of its recruits on that retreat, down to crown point. and then ford conquer robe and, ultimately, into albany. through the summer of 76, there was a question as to whether or not these kanye didn't regiments would continue. canada was not choosing to join in this rebellion. so why would you have this other canadian regiment? the original idea behind it was that it would be like all the other colonies that became states. it would have his own iteration of her regiment. is>> but if it's not joining the rebellion, what are we doing with this regiment? ultimately, what happened is that congress, by september of 76, went back to hazen, and he was really pushing for this, and said, yes, we will reauthorize your second canadian regiment, you can recruit among the canadian refugees that were up around albany, certainly recruit those that had come with the american

forces to tie congress aga, but we're also authorizing you to recruit among all of this states. here's another unique factor of this canadian regiment, it's allowed to recruit elsewhere. this brings up the next point. how many people from elsewhere would actually want to join the canadian regiment? if there from pennsylvania, jersey, connecticut, maryland, which is where they're trying to recruit. and in the middle of that, certainly by the end of 76 going into 77, we see then the advertisements going out, the recruiting going out, for congress's own regiment. this is not something that necessarily congress had organized or authorized, it came out of the regiment itself. i think it probably came from lieutenant colonel edward antill who was a part of this,

he was more of a thinker then moses hazen, quite frankly. i see haze and as the proulx galas, he was really rather irritating as a purse -- his commanding officer saw him like that. certainly general knocks at the end of it who said that this man was blessed with some of the most obstinate tempers he'd ever seen. but it is the kind of temper that this regiment continued an action through the rest of the war. amongbut given this it starts g up recording to new for congress [inaudible] and you can see what's going on here. you can't wait for a second canadian among all of them, but you can for congress but's guard. here is scott elite status. this sounds really good. this is better than just simply want to first pennsylvania, really? the first virginia? why not congress's own? and they did tremendously well. this regiment was authorized 1000 man. so much bigger than the common

kong turn untold infantry regiment but it was authorized 1000 and by the spring of 77, it was getting close to 900 men had enlisted in this regiment. now, if they all stay? absolutely. not see it in the records, some of these guys joined up, put cockade in their cap, got about the money, and ended all of. so you've got that, they don't all stay. but it was tremendously successful recruiting under congress's own. unfortunately, this regiment also didn't get along well with others. it got a rather [inaudible] reputation or what it was doing in congress came back and said it you're not supposed to be calling it. so what is it supposed to be called? back to second canadian? no, that's not doing recruiting. they tended to keep growing, which was rather traditional, by name so it was hazen's

regiment for much of this law war. but also noted that in some of the rosters, that the captains in this regiment put a little cors under this roster. there is still congress's own regiment and they knew how they were being recorded and how they were doing the recruiting. so they were incredibly successful under that name of congress's own and continued to do that through the west of the war, even after 1781 when james livingston's make meant was demobilized. anybody left over from that, as well as other foreign recruits and soldiers, joined hazen's regiment and it became known as the canadian old regiment. but that's the name not the name in the pension accounts. he's an's regiment, congress is on, is what they usually say they. picked up on that identity. so that leads me to the other one that i want to talk about, is this is how we get sergeant

major john h. hawkins, is that they are recruiting among all of these other camps and garrison's up in the new york area and they are sending recruiting officers down here into pennsylvania into these other states to the point where we've got soldiers from 11 of the states in the regiments. the only ones we don't have is i haven't found anybody from south carolina or georgia in this regiment, but they've got somebody from every other state. so, we've got this tremendously unique regiment that was called canadian, was called congress's own out in some ways is a microcosm of the continental army itself is that within its companies and many of these companies were segregated by states, they were certainly at least two of the companies that krystal french could even with officers who are still talking french with other soldiers,

with all of these other recruits. so sergeant major john each hawkins, from what i can see, had actually first enlisted in 76, in a pennsylvania unit, had served throughout, and then in early january of 77, was up for reenlistment. so many of the soldiers we have invested in 76 were on short term in this. prince john h. hawkins r the army going into 77 once again trying to recruit anomie at this point, and john h. hawkins realistic in congress's own. as he reinvested, because he also had service time, and i think also because he was so literate, he was a writer on -- come to that in a moment -- is that he first was given a corporal cylinder list went and then quickly within weeks was made a shot sergeant of the regiment. so john h. hawkins, who is he? i think he is from philadelphia.

some of this were i won't say full assumptions. i'm following clues. i spent probably way too much time trying to find this guy in the records. not always the easiest person to find. but from what i could understand, first of all by reading his journal, is that he kept talking about his typographical brethren he. talked about printing offices. he talked about newspapers. he was holding newspapers and books in his knapsack's. in fact, when you look at that journal over there, they've got it on the page where he's talking about what he lost when he shocked his knapsack when he was running before those brutish highlander is to get away at brandy wine. and then part of it, when you look at in there, he's talking about the papers and the quills and the books and the other things that he all had in his knapsack. so we've got this point that he was affiliated with printing in some form. so i went a little further in

trying to do research and actually found a runaway ad for an apprentice that ran away from david seller's printing shop here in philadelphia in 58. so you go, is this the same guy as john hawkins? it's printing, it's pennsylvania. you know, yeah, it's very likely. unfortunately i couldn't nail it down for sure, because he didn't say in his journal anywhere that he was a runaway apprentice. i want to? i but there was this. and of course, you get that little hint in this, looking at hawkins in his story, is that he had run away from david seller's shop. well, david seller had been the partner of haw, david haw, who had been the pardon of benjamin franklin, who was the most notorious runway printers of all, right? so he's following that kind of

tradition in some form or another. well, from what it appears, he must have come back and serve out his term as an apprentice or found something else, because he's back here in pennsylvania and in philadelphia, but obviously not finding a job or his own independent shop and. thus, there he was enlisting in the continental army during the revolution in this. so we followed him, but did also make sense about why he would be a subject and certainly by a sergeant major. >> this is somebody who can keep the records and he was. she was writing some of the order of the books. so we've got proof of this individual. but the big part was that journal. no, of course, i look at that journal, and it's wonderful. and think about the material resources when you can touch this. and i'm, going and i was, and your hearing this and going, 250 years ago, he was writing in this. and so, from his pen and ink to

my eyes, to see what's going on in his world at that time. he is speaking to me through the writing and i in turn and trying to speak to you through his writing as well, to introduce you a bit to his world, and what he saw in this revolution. so to take it from there, again, he is there in the regiment that had probably close to 1900 men serving in it over the course of the war so again unique and a tremendously large of a unit in there. so i wanted to take a step further from his journal in this -- and we can come back to talking about this, certainly to answering your questions about the regiment itself, where and how -- but whatever they want to pick up on in here is that [inaudible] country campaign. that is not as familiar to many people looking at the revolution just like a canadian

redshirt is not so familiar but one of the great things in hawkins's journal is when he talks about what he sees as he is marching through this country who is he talking to, who are some of the people? he is looking at the community that is becoming a nation and he is saying what is similar and different as he is marching throughout. so this brings me back to this point that i wanted to [inaudible] out. here is i'm picking up on another scholars work -- banished derek anderson -- who is talking about imagined political communities in this. and he promised that a nation is an imagined political community because the members of even the smallest nation will never know most of their fellow members. they will never beat them or even hear of them yet in the minds of each this the image of

the communion. that image of the communion can exist at the same time through shared experiences or overtime through events like this. so we are part of that imagined community that is part of the nation. and we are doing it through him. so right now, as we work through his words, we are part of the imagined community of that developing nation in the 17 70s, going through the 1780's. so, we are sitting here in philadelphia, here in 2021, in the philadelphia that he was living in in 1776, that he marched through on the way to yorktown, if you will, as well, actually he sailed through it, in 1781 and the like. but we are part of that immigrant community. we are part of an imagined community right now as we're all finally getting to see each other but then there are those of them who are over there,

over zoom. so i say, how do you, you are part of this imagined community. we're all together to look at this particular history. but the other part that benedict anderson and mentioned in his, is that when we form these communities, he talked about journeys or pilgrimages between times and statuses and places. so again, we are part of that journey. but these are meaning creating experiences that create the experience of the amendment community. and so i'd like us to consider to that when we look at the continental army as it is marching through the united states, the new united states, they are creating those community, and it's not all imagined. they are actually experiencing it, they are actually seeing it, they are actually meeting these people. so here it is, this philadelphian, who is meeting people up in massachusetts and new york and up into the coos

country that is vermont and new hampshire. he is meeting them and he is making these distinctions about are they like us or unlike us? are they with us, are they not with us in some form? and we expand that to all of the thousands and tens of thousands who were part of that army at the time, taking what is imagined and making it real in some form or another. so we come back to that reality as we look at hawkins. so i wanted to pick it up, especially in this one aspect. coos country campaign. this was in 1779. so even before this, a year before this in 78, there was a talk about a possible other invasion into canada. general lafayette was given charge of that possible invasion in 78, it's let's move up and go for it. certainly, hazen i was going for hope for -- this that's yes,

let's go back to canada and i have my estates back there, i want to get by lines, back the worst of it. and it went [noise] nowhere. okay, that was the end of it in 70 80. they could not get the supplies, they could not get the support. quite frankly, general washington was not real front of the idea either. he had other things he needed to do in 78 instead of worrying about canada. so it was put on the backburner. then, on the 6th of march, 79, washington ordered his regiment to move in to the coos country. so at that point hazen's regiment had spent the winter at what was called putnam's folly, which is outside of reading, connecticut, one of the largest in cambodia through this war, and probably about the largest inhabited area at that point in connecticut, in their, so it was a big down. and they were given the orders to start marching north into the coos country and then

eventually to build a road or cut a road from half hill, new hampshire, which is up at the top there, threw into what were the new hampshire grants, also called the pretended state of vermont at that point, and to move up towards the canadian border. so this was the orders. now, what was the reason for it? hazen's orders were, you are to scout the area, build a road, and then get to the populace. so three components to that mission. he wanted hazen in particular to discover whether the inhabitants would support an expedition focus to canada and go out into. it especially if they would do it with the french support, which by that time, america had. so he was going, you know, why don't you go up and do that? hazen is delighted to take his regiment up there to do this.

know what he didn't realize, and what washington didn't tell him, is that this was actually part of washington's greater strategy, which three fourth could be seen as a strategy of disinformation out to the enemy and those who are within the states as well as up to canada, either against the enemy in canada -- so if they think the enemy is coming one day, they might not be watching as closely in another direction -- and that also, ultimately, a bone to throw to people like hazen we had kept harassing him -- remember he had that obstinate often attempt -- about making an invasion into canada. can you all figure why washington wanted a diversion in the spring and summer of 79? and a >> look a little over there to new york on that border, you might have heard of general sullivan and a campaign against

the native americans into new york, to move against that enemy. wouldn't it make a lot of sense if you're sending sullivan up one way to have hazen created diversion and another local? it's a faint. move them in a different direction. so hazen's delighted and since his troops up. this brings us back to hawkins. hawkins describes what he is seeing on that track that you see listed on there. they're basically following the connecticut river valley, moving up into new hampshire and then across into what will be vermont. so he describes the various towns and peoples of this track. they move out in three divisions, essentially what would've been three battalions within the regiment itself as they saw it. moving up first through to springfield, massachusetts. at springfield, hawkins records,

at daybreak, on 14 april, all three divisions march out followed by a baggage trail. he records eight wagons, 21 teams, 21 teams? to be pulling these wagons? those have got to be very heavy wagons, and they definitely are. because what is on them? loaded with spades, shovels, axes, picks, carbines, horseman show, pistols, and other military stores. carpenters tools, armors tools, provisions. they are out to really cut this road, and they are taking all the tools but them. so think four minute, what that would look like to the communities through which there's a baggage train going with the soldiers in these three divisions, who may not have seen a lot of soldiers up to this point, but they are

moving through. this is part of haisen engaging the populace. it is not just the tools to cut the road. this is, if you will, to show the flag in this area. this is a borderland on this revolutionary frontier, where much of the action is beyond their, but they are not forgotten. okay? we are sending troops up there to deal with issues they are worried about. and of course, haisen is still hoping that he will get his lens back. so they have the part. so they have that, and they are traveling behind their forge. if they break their tools, they can fix them. they have that in the wagon trail as well. so again, they are marching out, we have all of these animals, all of these wagons, moving out, to show the force of the continental army and by extension, congressional

authority. they are moving on that into these hinterland's. this is part of creating that political community as well as sent as sending the military up. so they started marching and hilly territory, but, hawkins is looking there. oh, where are the level roads? where are the beautiful pine trees country? where the trees are shaping the road on a hot day. that's really important when you are wearing wool and you are marching up this and it's warm. where are the fine houses and the farms? he looks at north hampton. what a handsome a large village. though much scattered. checking it out, how does this work. but it goes, the court of justice is small but very elegant house. inside work is very grand. so, other things, pointing out how people are living. so he's praising some areas that he goes through, and then

he denigrates others. swans-y, for instance, was despicable. okay? not good for any pr there. war pool? oh lord, he wore poll. where he found the troops much scattered, some dwelling and houses and others and barnes. the poor, mean, despicable, wretched town could not afford one regiment room in their dwelling houses for one night. this is the first night that our men have been under the necessity of lying in barnes on this march. so fascinating point. in this, he's revealing that, as they have been marching through these communities, they have been quarter in people's homes. the inhabitants o longest track have been wool coming the soldiers into their homes. they have not had to lay out

under the stars or, at that point, in barnes. i will point out that it could be all welcoming, another point or two is when you look at what's hazen is doing, he was also perfectly willing to threaten counsel men along the way. that if you're not willing to give the supplies we need, for instance, flower, then we will take it. if you do not let us staple our houses and your farms, we will put them in any way and we will stay there until you supply. again, that obstinate temper either be very willing to do it or will use a little bit of authority to get what we want. >> the that was part of, it butt was interesting, but the despicable one is the one where they make them and sleep in the barn. the other ones, these wonderful communities, are welcoming them, the soldiers, into their homes. so he was very happy to leave

miserable walpole, that was on the 24th of april. arrive in charleston. handsome, those small, but lovely. it resembled princeton, new jersey. so again, there is this other side to it where he's taking what he knows and comparing but he's just meaning. hey, they are like us, they are like princeton up there. hey, we have these connections. they're part of our community in doing this. he also pointed out the other side of the connecticut river is, what is called, the state of vermont. but, which is in dispute at that time. he is observing and recording, he is examining what is different, what is similar, what is common, among these various regions and people. they were certainly some unpopular -- some unfavorable comparisons, but quite frankly, he was often very positive about what he was

seeing. i will say he was also always looking for future opportunities in this. the thing that we see with hawkins is he couldn't make it as a printer down here in philadelphia, i think that was a surplus of printers down here in philadelphia at the time, but he was certainly looking out there, and you see things like, albany, do you have a printing press there? i see no one's using it. well, he was drafting a letter to say, would you be interested in letting me have it, setting something up? he looked at dartmouth college. oh, they have a printing press, wonderful! this liberty of liberties as the printing press. he thought this was great. that is true civilization, is to have a press. so he's out there looking for other opportunities and you go, this is what other soldiers were doing as well as the air marching through. are they going to go back home, or are they going to look for opportunities elsewhere.

so when the process of all of this, hawkins was checking this out as hayes in regiment was out there collecting intelligence, denying intelligence to the enemy, as they were saying it, because they were also sending out elements up into canada at that point, checking in with native americans. trying to have native american allies, or at least keeping them neutral, if nothing else in there. and making sure that the new settlers were protected from, and also made sure that they were not engaging with, the enemy. at that point. again, the regiment was showing the flag as it was moving into the border land to cut the invasion route. as it did, and by the end of august, we hazen had indeed cut the route up to what is now called hazen the's notch, and it's right there below the canadian border. he was very close, he was within sight of the canadian border when he got borders from

washington to return. washington had gotten what he wanted out of this expedition, the faint had work, sullivan's expedition was successful, it was time for them hazen to bring his regiment back so we could be ready for engagements through the rest of 79 and moving into 1780 at that point. so, with this, and i know that i am coming at the end of this, they continue on, if we go back to what you have said after the week coos county, campaign, they went back to morristown, the regiment suffered through the difficulties of morristown. the regiment did much to yorktown in 1781. hawkins was very good about recording that one as well we, the town to yorktown. at yorktown, the regiment did distinguish itself, in

particular it's infantry company, which had been to one lafayette, and the light -- part of the assault party under hamilton on readout number 10, which beat the french who are trying to take out read out number nine at exactly the same time. after yorktown, the regiment was sent up to lancaster, pennsylvania, not too long from here if you will. they were on guard duty with the prisoners of war there where i would like to point out that hazen again was pressing for an invasion of canada. threw into 1782, you know, let us do it. and everybody is waiting for the diplomats to get everything done, to get the peace treaty, let's end this, and there's hazen going, come on, let's have one last chance, let's go for canada again! i love it. washington writes him back going, interesting, send me your plans. you know.

and i think this is great as a senior officer he's going, write it out for me, about how this would actually work. and the trouble is, it only kept hazen occupied for a few weeks and he had already set the plane back. but at that point washington had other things for him to do. he brought them back in new york, he spent the rest of the war up in pompton most of the trip was furloughed. by june july, 1783, one small contingent of it then continued up to west point, between west point and uber where they stayed in till the army was completely disbanded and november of 1783. so here was a regiment that served basically from 1776, when it was authorized in january, to november of seven 1883. and in it, sergeant major john

h. hawkins was in it from 70 1777 through to 1783. and i am very thankful that he left us a journal to see part of this regiments travels. thank you very much. >> tyler, behind. you raise your hand, maybe i will kick things off. as soon as our contingency plan comes into effect here with our handhelds. i appreciated your casting the role of the continental army as the sort of nationalizing force. it's something for those of you who are familiar with our court exposition here at the museum, you are brute will recall a very dramatic scene with cast figures with the snowball fight where george washington breaks

up this fight between new england and virginia soldiers. we have that because we want to remind, or for the first time tell visitors, that the nation did not spraying out of the heads of the man who were gathering on the street here, but it was a very hard, long process, perhaps an ongoing process that is still going on. a little bit later in the court, especially when you see that display of soldiers buttons from the period of 1777 and the valley forge encampment when the usa was of course printed on the buttons worn by soldiers and uniforms. one of the things we wanted to convey is this is actually the first time most americans will have seen, we chant usa. the first time it appears is, of course, on the bodies of these continental army soldiers. so i think, this regiment, again, being a regiment without

a country is just an incredible embodiment of that process. the very much were. when you start looking at the rosters, at the end of this war, you tenant benjamin moores, he was actually is the nephew for his hazen, started to do a roster. they were pulling all the news together. actually, hawkins was part of that and he had done part of the roster and move them together. which was that master roster had about -- i counted 1482 soldiers on that roster -- and then i also get more research and pulled out another 300 or so that we're doing it. many of them where the french canadians who had left or were staying ahead in canada instead of coming down and retweet. so again you get into about 1900 men with him. but on that roster, they didn't all have places where they came from, which was absolutely apparent because when they run when they wanted a bounty lens that the rest, they had to have a state affiliation by which to

get it. but about 300 of those names just had u.s. after them. in other words, they had no state affiliation, they only had the united states affiliation. and then after that, we saw the pennsylvania pennsylvanians and the new yorkers and the new jersey and the like that you saw, but that u.s. was essential for the french canadians. it was also essential for some of the foreigners they did. so we did have some prisoners. some of the prisoners of war at lancaster john hazen's regiment, jones was an english in that case. other side also joined. so it was very much a multi ethnic, multi lingual regiment there with the continental army. >> what happened to sergeant major hawkins after 1783? >> oh, that's the hard part. sergeant baker hawkins almost disappears. there's only two other records i was [inaudible] and they are both about valley lands in particular, as he was selling them off for

distributing them elsewhere. and basically by 93, i can't find him. i actually went into the records for the yellow fever hospitals to see whether he died in one of the hospitals, to see whether that happened. i couldn't find his name. i was a little relieved by that point. i did find at least to john hawkinses in the philadelphia directories. and one was more of a cobbler and another was a gross. and i think, you know, is it possible, if he is who i think to who he was, he would have some experience leather working the family. i'm more inclined to think it was a grocery. with his experience it would have been relatively easy for him to set that up and to go into trade. he definitely did not become a farmer as far as i know. he didn't disappear. i think it was too open for that. i didn't have that kind of experience. but i spent a lot of time trying to do it. because i was determined, i am going to find the sky! i have got to!

you have this marvelous journal. i have been spending all this time reading about him, i want to meet him. you know, this kind of thing. more than hazen. hazen, a. problem. but hawkins i wanted to beat. and i couldn't. but finally one of my colleagues, after responding to long, she says, you know, that's part of the story here is that so many of the people we have named on these rosters, this is all we've got of them, that we know that they lived. we have their name and we have nothing else. so we know more about him, but he also represents so many of these soldiers who came in, enlisted, fought, and disappeared. >> do we know where those jewels were between him disappearing into the ether and them ending up ads hsp and coming into the collection there i? >> i have not seen it but if

you want to talk to [inaudible] -- >> someone to talk to about this -- >> [inaudible] at some point they were bound together and so they were actually, when he was writing them, they were in smaller, like, paper bound kind, or stitched together pages, and then at some point, somebody decided to put them within a leather pointing. and when they did, there are one or two pieces that were burned out of order. so i was going, it stops here, but then let's not go into this page. and then i find it later on in the journal. so there was a little bit of a difference. and if you take a good look at the journal, you will notice that the pictures are in different sizes, and the different trunks there that, again, is showing where this first came from, and that the binding was later for this. but yeah. >> thank you, doctor mayer. i want [inaudible] the first question to one of our guests watching from home. this is from riley sutherland,

who clearly like as a fan of your past research. reilly asks, does dr. mayors research reveal anything about the canadian women attached to hazen's regiment, and if so [inaudible] women that we know from the american revolutionary or british forces? >> absolutely. and i managed to get a little bit in there about the women with the regiment there. i couldn't leave the camp for the without. there was no way. what we do know is that women and children did also retreat with the french canadians at the retreat from canada. mazen's hazen's wife charles it was also a refugee. it would antill's wife was a refugee. she also kept bearing children in camp and losing about half of them in camp through the process of this war. there were certainly other soldiers that had their wives and their children with them in camp, and what is interesting

is that within a few years, at least with the french canadian, seeing that some of the soldiers who had come down are starting to marry the daughters of the other soldiers who had come down. so they were maintaining their community ties in the camps. regulations at some points there they were say ing womeso it is that it was mur soldiers with teenage daughters, and that then if you look at the regulations, at some point there they were saying, women over the age of 14 would not be allowed in the camp separately. and you go, well, at that point you get married and you get russians and your allowed to stay in camp. i did not find as many women following with the anglo soldiers, and certainly not with the deserters from the german or the british side coming in with them. but most of the time that's, they could stay closer to home. so one of the things with can follow stories is, remember, are they coming out of the areas in which there is action

or has been taken by the enemy and so they are following because they are also refugees, not simply because of the funding? but yes, they are there. they are in the book. got him! >> i'm curious, can you talk a little bit about, your fast forwarding to the 19th century, when those who had survived to pension act in 1818, 1832, like, what were you able to find out through, through those sources? which i think should be known by all americans, i mean this is the first oral history archive of an american conflict, 80,000 pension records in the national archives, and it's still such a is -- >> it's a marvelous [inaudible] -- >> such a bountiful feel to block. so what did you find about this you are? >> first you find that the best records usually come after the 1820 pension [inaudible] when they say you've got to show need, and what do you own, what you don't own.

and they're making. this by the time we get into the 1830s, at this point, they just go, you survived, okay. which we can pension you off at that point. but in the 1830s, also, is when the widows could ask for the pensions based on their husbands, service, the soldiers service. and they would have to give proof of how are you actually married? the first of the accounts said, were you married during the war? and later on? were you married within through so many years of the war? and then finally it was, well winded it -- didn't matter when you marry the veteran, it's just that you had been married to one of the soldiers -- but what was tremendous and where i got most of the record for this was among french canadians, is because actually congress, or the war department, was tending to push against some of them, especially going, well, that means that she got married when she was 13. no, no, that can't be. there's gotta be something. right well, no, they actually did mary at 13 in some of these cases.

and there are other reasons why. and they would try to get more information from these women. most of them were illiterate and you can't write your name, and she doesn't know this stuff, but you can give the story or tell tales about, well, we stood up in the barracks before everybody in the company and declared that we were married with the company commander there to supervise this. so it was a common law marriage. and then for them, they were waiting until a priest would arrive and they could actually do the sacramento marriage at that point. which date happen. there was a missionary priest by the name of father farmer who went up to the encampments up there and he married some of them and baptized some of the children. so we've got that. but what they were doing is then telling us these a little intimate details of their life, at least, when they thought they got married, if they had had children while they were still in camp with them at some point. but the other part that was tremendous is that they had

maintained [inaudible] those manual as french canadians, new york state gave a bounty lands. and those bounty lands were up past plot spoke. so they were right smack dab there on the canadian border. some of them were within 50 miles of where they had lived before the war. so they were right close to home again at that point, and they had created a community up there, and then in the pension accounts, you've got sister being witness to sister to be in witness to a brother's children, to then their children are representing their parents in these accounts. but they really were all very much a strong community this way. so it was -- yeah, a great other story. >> yeah, it's a great -- certainly the theme of much of your work is thinking of these, these institutions, rather their regiments, armies, as communities.

and you know, really comes through [inaudible] better if they come a community [inaudible] if they have that sense of affiliation with him. and as i said, it's also picking up on this idea of creating a community that is a nation. so you've got the smaller communities and then that bigger one that keeps growing from that. >> i'll ask another question from our friends on the internet. what jerry nick is wondering if john hopkins says anything about the famous cabal and inside dealing that those of us who've been studying the later years of the revolutionary war might have heard off. >> not as much. i wish he. would there are quite a few gaps in his record. part of it is you would see he's not part of his journal as he was running away from that highlander ad brandywine. another part is that all buddy. when they are making up from willing to albany as part of

that first so-called eruption into cameramen canada in 78. and he had lost out of his pocket that he thought was stolen, and they went another journal at that point. so there had been -- so there are gaps in the record at that point. what i do see at the end and -- this was before the uber conspiracy -- as he was talking about hazen and hazen's militarily family altogether in arid skyler's house up there. and they're sitting around, and he's trying to write in his journal, and he's trying to write letters, and people are singing and dancing all around him. and then the housekeeper, apparently, at that point, kept just trying to push his stuff aside. and he said, i didn't come in fear of my life right now, as jews branding brandishing knives that will be to put down on the table to set the table for dinner. so he was talking more about things that intimately concerned him as a [inaudible] to those greater events. i would have loved to have seen the account about the knee at

new jersey, the hazen's graduate was part of putting that down. but that's one of the gaps in the journal. >> i was about the call john reese. >> holy, could you tell us what you know about any african americans with the regiment? >> i didn't look this up. i was checking it out. there were a few african americans in hazen's regiment. but what made it difficult is that in the rosters, they were not putting down race next to the soldiers names. they put down where they came from, because that's where they would be supplied and paid, but there was no indication of race. so what i started to do is i was researching some part of what we can do is sometimes is by meaning. it's a name that seems like it was often associated with and frequent americans. and if i ran across that name, i would try to research it.

and i did find if you that way by tracing them back to the census accounts. so, kate, who could have been cato known for that one point, he was found a free person of color up in connecticut, but he was never noted that way in the regiment itself for it. another person that i came with -- so i found about three or four, is really all that i could say that for sure i had cooperating evidence to say that this was a person of color. one was john saratoga. now, he's an interesting character in this. no indication whatsoever about race. where i found out was later on at the end of the war is that edward chen, who is the pay master of the regiment, put in the people were saying that all monies due to john saratoga way to go to him, for he is my slave for life. so, here we know that we had --

so, kate monfort was a free person of color and now we've got john saratoga, who is an enslaved person, both serving in the regiment on the roll. major john taylor from virginia broad and enslaved servant with him, and registered him into the regiment so that he was getting the russians in and pay through his enslaved servant. so, we do know that they were there, there were other accounts for putnam's regiment at one point, like around 27 men, and hazen's management was part of putnam's regiment and they said they were 27 african americans with the regiment at that time, some of them were probably in hazen's management. but, so i was really trying to track them down, but i found it very interesting they did not make that designation. and what does that mean?

that they are not making that designated on these troops imagine what tha t knapsa>> before we give everyone opportunity to get their books sign, or to appreciate -- it is our long tradition for scott stevenson to have a final question. [laughs] >> i do like to have a final word, as you know. we have portions, presumably not all, of the diary, have been published? i'm just curious if -- me why would you like to say about that? >> i did in the midst of doing this -- this is one of the things where your research, if you, well goes wrong right. i'm not sure where it is. but when i first came across the sergeant majors journal, and he is my sergeant major, is, i started to think, this would be a great thing to transcribe, imitate, and then published as

a primary source for use. so i've transcribed the entire journal, i have the transcription in my records. but i got so involved going, every time i was going to entertain something, what am i going to learn more? i want to learn more. and the next thing you know is, i think i am writing a monograph. i think i have another story in this. so there is a part of me that is still thinking, maybe i should still go back and publish this primary source for use in schools and elsewhere. whether or not that is as important anymore as we do more and more digital history is the question. if i don't go in that direction, i will give the transcription to hsp it just doesn't make sense for to steal my computer at that point. [applause] >> the second half of my final question is just, more broadly, as we approach

the 250th anniversary of the declaration of independence, going to be somewhat of a celebration, i hope here, in philadelphia. i am curious, what are you thinking about, what are your aspirations, what are you worried about? open-ended question, but how are you reflecting on the commemoration and anniversary that is coming up? >> certainly hoping that i will still be here to celebrate that with you all. actually, right now, i'm just working -- actually, i'm an editor for volume on women waging war. it is a collection of essays about the women side of this war, it's under contract with uva press, so that should be coming out next spring. this is the project in the near term. and there might be a revisiting of sergeant agent hawkins. >> thank you very much, holly, for joining us here tonight. >>

>> how did the suffragists swing the vote? in a discussion with the historical society, descend bob and rebecca roberts, airs of two political families, explain the suffragists strategies and tactics in the suffragist playbook, your guide to changing the world. >> there had been celebratory rates, i'm sure you've seen this picture before, but this idea of taking a cause, a march on washington, that was a suffragist idea. and it's common that we think of it as a traffic headache, but it had never been done before in this way. the idea of a political march through the corridor through federal rushing to, through the legislative branch to the executive branch. that was alice paul's idea. in the 1913 parade, which, i will talk about at great length if i'm given an opportunity, so i have to restrain myself

because we have lots to cover today, it did not go at all as planned. again, evident that it was planned out to its last minute, but then there was this massive crowd that blocked pennsylvania avenue. so for perspective here, this picture is on 13th street, you see the capital in the background, it's a really broad street, right? it has wide sidewalks and there is no space between these, men and they are man, you see the bowler hats. they were there for the win to wilson integration the next day. and they behaved very badly. they blocked the street, they spied on the women, they call them names, they trip them. the police did nothing to get this crowd back. in some cases, the police joined in the name-calling and spitting. but, again, how familiar is this image now, right? this is the march for our lives. in the wake of the dog and douglas shootings. this is a friendly crowd, but this is the same picture, 100

years later. once you start seeing these parallels to tactics of suffragist, you cannot unsee them. another one. picketing the white house. no one had ever done this before. this was the national women's party idea. so not only is picketing in the white house now incredibly common, this is an image from the summer when there were so many black lives matter protesters that they started adding their signs to the fence that the white house had put between the protesters and itself. but what are these women doing? they are making a message go viral. this is the 1917 equivalent of a tweet. right? sure, it reaches the people who are standing in front of the white house, one but it reaches many more people in the picture, in the newspaper. >> watch the full program and thousands more at c-span.org slash history. >> in troubles with george, no fan you'll feel h