as measure this was this was a workhorse. now that's your horse.

and other topics. this is about two hours. >> the committee will now come to order print out objection the chairs authorized to have recess of the committee anytime good morning again welcome to today's oversight ihearing of the federal bureau of prisons. i would like to remind members we have established an e-mail address distribution was to the circuit exhibits most other written material that members might want to offer as part of our hearing today. if you like to submit matures placing them to the e-mail address that is been previously distributed to your offices. to circulate the materials to members and staff as quickly as weekend. i would also ask all members to please make your microphones -- back to mute your microphones when you're not speaking this will help prevent feedback and other technical issues, you may unmute yourself any time you

speak for recognition. i now recognize myself for an opening statement pay today's hearing on oversight of the federal bureau of prisons is a follow-up to the hearing the subcommittee helen generate 21s, 2022. it was ourur commitment to our members that they would have the actual representative at this time of the federal bureau of prisons to be able to hear directly from the leadershipus. and to secure answers. the hearing last week told the bureau implementation the first step actiq over 19 the bureau's response to the pandemic and the implementation used for release in the bureau among other topics in the line of justice. and accountability during that hearing any questions were raised many of our members thought to speak directly to the director. the firm please have the director michael hear it today so that we may delve deeply

into many issues faced by the bureau, two years into the pandemic covid-19 most pressing and impactful issue is the virus continues to wreak havoc among many of the facilities and i am uncomfortable as to whether or not they have met the challenge and met the task. from the outset the viruses increase the health or us or people living or working in confined spaces which is especially true for prison systems were social distancing must be balanced with a need to ensure his safety and security. we continue to hear horror stories of gop facility struggling to contain the virus for instance last week that approximate 40% of inmates at the danbury correctional institution in connecticut were either isolation or quarantine with only responsible for three units. we as a congress must collaborate to ensure the

remanence of c the past can't be corrected by this administration that has a new approach a new commitment to the reformation of the system. then on monday we learned federal medical center cardwell delivers a facility in fort worth texas and myspace has the fourth highest covid positive numbers of any with 248 inmates and 46 members covid positive that died since the beginning of the pandemic. the past weeks the number of covid-19 positives in the system have fluctuated between 6009 and the same two week period use inmates to die to 84's too many inmates to

control the slow and ineffective utilization which should be with discretion the bureau has. several mechanisms within the authority to reduce the number of inmates and compassionate relief the cares act and the first step act. modified even by then attorney general barr. although using overly restrictivee criteria release thousands of prisons under the cares act reestablish themselves and their families and in their communities and importantly not reoffend with the bureau and d.o.j. should be commended for their decision to rescind the previous administration's opinion that would have called manyr of these individuals baca into custody unnecessarily. i think it is important to know that these individuals have been release for release on their application for compassionate reliefe as opposed assessing prisoners and determined they could be released which causes the problems we have now.

the continue to test positive for covenant teen and others die they have failed to effectively utilize the authority to request compassionate relief or inmates. i think they are just waiting for somebody to die. jennifer's 2020 to january 3020, 2021 there's a height of the pandemic prisons less than 1% the total compassionate relief motion filed throughout the entire country in an attempt to respond to this issue and to help alleviate the rise of spreading covertly expanded tcompassionate relief and later expanded again to allow inmates to file their own motions 30 days after the first made a request with the warden. notably one fourth of 284 inmates who died in custody of covid related illnesses actually filed a motion for compassionate relief, raising questions about the efficiency and efficacy of the process. one is left to wonder how justice was served by the process with 62 inmates filed for compassionate relief

themselves through counsel and those pre-existing pre-existing medical conditions cited by the bureau after theyst died of covid related illness while in custody. why couldn't there be a response? the bureau and only. grapples with inmate infections and deaths but also with staff member infections and death. the last two weeks the number of covid-19 has range from 900 to almost 2007 have died of covid related illness. staffing shortage have long been a problem has made a bad situation even worse. statistics didas not bode well for the state of operations per bureau for sellers across the country. staff norms become infected are required to quarantine due to exposure covid-19 directly affects the remaining staff at the facility to provide safety, security, and covid related medical service and cynicism within inmates. take this moment as i conclude my remarks to be able to give appreciation to

the corrections officers and staff that operate with compassion, hopefully sensitivity and they worked every single day. ninety-eight facilities are meant level three of the operation levels which improve social distancing in all areas of the facility. but as of monday all federal prisons on a national lockdown two inmates died during a fight and believing multiple inmates. including those in gangs brother details are not forthcoming due to the ongoing fbi investigation this raises concern about the safety and security of the facility, particular in my backyard beaumont which is been compromised by long-standing staffing shortages. the consequences of staffing shortages time and time again epstein was linked in part to the hours ofnv overtime officers guarding him are required to work and required an employee who is not a corrections officer to guard him. i went to that facility, saw

the need, freezing, cold and needs of those employees that were there they begged for help and did not get it. that precipitate the closing of the metropolitan corrections internment as well as worked very hard on this issue. and so i hope as we go forward we will listen to the issues, we know some issues are being investigated by the oig. we understand the conditions in these prisons are not what they should be. we know the risk assessment which is the core of the implementation of the first step act and other programs have not been effectively utilized for b hope to answer that question on the program that indicates the national institute of justice identifies areas that ibe understand are being addressed to advise the pattern if inmates are assessed under the current version for disadvantage they must be

reassessed under the new version. prison is a place of accountability and punishment. but it should also be a place of redemption, restoration, service and certainly a place for staff to work out. so i report to this discussion with our director and i look forward to continuing to try to restore the federal prison bureau and theti way it should perform. without objection all submitted to the record the following document testimonies submitted for the gentry subcommittee hearing entitled the first step act pandemic and compassionate relief. where the next steps in the prison. a letter from allison k gertie dated february 1, 2022 in a company attachment written statement submitted the generate 21st, 2020 to subcommittee the first step pandemic compassionate relief on the next step for the prisons.

i now recognize the distinguished member from arizona in the ranking member for his opening statement, thank you and welcome. >> thank you madam chair. i first thank you, madam chair for holding this and for bringing in the director of prisons because i think that your swift response to many of us who requested presence be here i appreciate your response to that madam chair. we are grateful for that. i welcome director as well. thank you for your service. we are glad to have you here today. the federal bureau of prisons is tasked with protecting society by confining two controlled environments of prisons and community based facilities gop's duty is not merely to provide housing, food, and security for federal inmates but also to help inmates become law-abiding citizens upon release.

all americans have an interest in gop's mission because the vast majority of federal inmates, well above 90% will someday be released into our communities regardless of our efforts to reduce recidivism. gop's job is not an easy task. it's only become more complicated due to covid-19. the response aer covenant teen took a number of steps to safeguard the health, safety of inmates through prison staff. the prioritized inmates from home confinement who did not pose a significant risk to the public. restrict the number of visitors among detention facilities. these are reasonable measures to my colleagues on the other side of the aisle want to go even further. they've tried to use covid-19 as a reason to look more convicted criminals back onto our streets. even wrote the interning general urging him to quote use every tool at his disposal to be released as many prisoners as possible".

they even passed legislation in theav house to pace dates to releasele inmates in local jails. think about that. my colleagues across the aisle want to use our tax dollars to incentivize states to put more criminals on the streets earlier. the consequence of these actions have deadly results which we have unfortunately seen in march of 2021, eric was released from the gop custody after being granted compassionate release based on covid vulnerability. just four months later my butt was accused in charge of murdering his wife. and just a few weeks ago in oregon, was charged with first-degree robbery, first-degree theft and felony fleeing and unlawful use of a weapon. granted compassionate release the previous year. despite these numerous times that have been committed by inmates my colleagues across the aisle are asking for more

to be released regardless of their crime or prison sentence for it other committee members which open the jails they are turning public health crisis into public safety crisis as well. i tellpr you, director please pass on our appreciation to yourur officers and employees for they have a tough job. i want them to note they have our support. too that end i understand many gop officers voice over the vaccine mandate. i strongly oppose efforts to mandate covid-19 vaccines and introduce legislation to prevent for having vaccine mandates. i also request that madam chair we soon had the d.c. director of the u.s. marshals office in for hearing as well. i think some of the evidence that came out would do well for both sides of the aisle to

hear. i appreciate you bringing in directors good to have them here pretty thank you madam chair and i yield back the balance of my time. >> i think the ranking member for his statements. i acknowledge that this time the service of our chairman and service art ranking member mr. jordan. thank you for their leadership of this committee. it is now my pleasure to introduce today's witness or witness. that is michael, who is the director of the federal bureau of prisons began his career with the bureau prisons in 1992 as a correctional officer as a federal correctional institute three rivers. he is in essence a committed, dedicated servant to the federal bureau of prisons. he served in position of leadership and texas, kansas, louisiana before becoming a

regional director of northeast region in 2016. he became the assistant director for the correctional program division in 2018 and held that position until he was appointed director in 2020 in the last administration. : : : program division in 20 and held that position until he was appointed a director in 2020. let me again take note of his service and as well the many corrections officers that i have had the privilege of meeting throughout the system. our task here is to provide a reform and restora to turn on your audio and make sure i can see your face and raise your right hand while i administer y the oath. do you swear or affirm under

penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give udis true and correct to the bet of your knowledge, information and belief, so help you god? >> yes. >> let the record to show the witness answered in the affirmative. t thank you. please note your written statementses will be entered ino the record in its entirety and accordingly i ask that you your testimony in five minutes. to help you stay within this timeframe there is a timing light on your screen when the light switches from green to yellow, you have one minute to conclude your testimony. when the light turns red signals that your five minutes has expired. i now recognize the director for five minutes. thank you. you are recognized. >> on behalf of the corrections professionals who work a day in

and day out to supper the critical law enforcement mission the bureau's work is incredibly challenging and has been exacerbated. our management of the pandemic has been highly scrutinized despite the fact we have worked in lockstep shaping the guidance for the benefit of everyone that works in the environment. the bureau is one of the first to offer testing and vaccination and recognized the bureau for eleading [inaudible] we continue to increase those rates. after issuance of the act transferring vulnerable eligible inmates to residential centers. the bureau has transferred 37,000 inmates for potential

placement and home confinement based on the law enforcement mission. another criticism is we are understaffed and misrepresented without reference to the factual data. we have 1100 however seven institutions out of 121 make up 40% and increasing anduniv maintaining with an appropriated funding level remains our priority. last calendar year year we had over 3,000 staff and at one point hired 1,000 staff. we've proven we can hire employees and even though it's not an issue at the majority of the location, we are routinely by competing, state and law enforcement agencies to pay a higher wage. accordingly we continue to work with of the department to consider the use of additional so that we may be more competitive. another area of misguided criticism is the implementation of the actou of the bureau workd

with of the department on the development and the risk and support of the institute to develop and the new pattern toolshe we worked to negotiate policies and implementation of the law. the consensus of 150,000 inmates to ensure they received. the mental health issues or other special needs. we've expanded programs and vocational training with 70,000 ndinmates participating in first step act programs by the end of 2021 and the constraints caused. we are modernizing the education platform to include the use of tablets for better program and

we've created an online system to connect with volunteers at the facilities. additionally we are exploring waysy to provide inmates with id cards under the real id act. we engaged with experts to evaluate the programs and we are working to review and a stronger data platform to enhance the monitoring evaluation. in concert with the department regardingg the credit we applied the rule retroactively and immediately released 4,000 inmates. we are releasing approximately 1600 and transferring 2500. in some over 8,000 inmates have had their time supplied towards the supervised release. the bureau support has always

been committed to the implementation of the first step act and we are compliant. last year the governmental accountability office reported highlighted areas where the bureau needed to improve and in response established a task force to address these areas. as a result of the work, the priority recommendations identified are now closed. our work in this area continues. other members of the committee, this concludes my statement. >> madam chair, i think you are still on mute.

>> i'm going to yield to you at this time and follow. the first step act and the covid epidemic i was glad to hear from several experts on the topic that i'm afraid i'm left with a few questions i believe you might be the one to answer on the particular specific

situations. one of the ways it attempted to address the epidemic in the system was by providing additional authority to grant compassionate release for incarcerated persons who met a number of criteria to demonstrate a low risk every offense as opposed to the way it was described a few minutes ago with democrats asking for the prison doors to be opened up indiscriminately. can you tell us how many people have been granted early relief under this program? and i wanted to know for those people that were granted, how many reoffend? i know if there's been individual cases but i want to know if you have any numbers overall or percentages of how many people were in violation missing a curfew or phone call and how many people were released and were unaccounted for, how many people offended

again with violent crime? >> thank you, congresswoman, and i appreciate the opportunity to make thee distinctions here. i think that there is confusion so i'm going to try to clarify as i stated in my remarks we really stand transferred 37,000 under the act and compassionate release as a separate entity. under the statute and current policy we make a recommendation to support the court makes the final decision, the bureau of prison doesn't take a position on the motion itself and as you stated we use the policy criteria to evaluate and ensure that each individual case is as compelling and circumstances that they are fully considered. these are individualized cases and we take into account public safety and victim impact but i

stressss we do not do that and e court makes the final decision. we did not track data i don't have it in front of me for compassionate release because when an inmate receives a sentence of reduction they are no longer in our custody. i can answer the other part of the 37,000 that we transferred on confinement in the community with 90,000 of the specifics to the cares act, 320 approximately 320 that i am aware of committed violations that have been brought back to secure custody. eight of those were new crimes that i'm aware of and one was a serious crime i don't have the details in front of you but i'm sure we can get them for you. >> so use it to 320, could you repeat that again? >> 320 of the inmates under the cares act home confinement. >> so you don't know how many were technical violations?

could i assume the rest were technical or not? >> i can clarify that. i appreciate that. the most common is about 160 of the 320 were for abuse of alcohol or drugs. some of them were not where they were supposed to be, some were violations of that nature. eight of them were new crimes committed and the rest were technical violations. the vaccine distribution, one among staff. >> we have approximately 80% of our staff which is about 30,000 staff that are fully vaccinated and we have about 95,000 inmates, 93 to 95 with moving targets that change constantly so that's about 70% of the population. of course people can change

their mind at any point if they choose to come back and we will make the vaccine available. >> for the 20% of the staff that are not vaccinated, but protocols do you have in place, do they have to get tested weekly or what is in place? >> prior to the mandate we were offering weekly testing, volunteering obviously when the mandate came out, we mandated the testing for unvaccinated. there was aou preliminary injunction issued in january by a judge and we are observing that and see support for the vaccine mandate and all processes with it but we continue to encourage that and they become vaccinated and that is a moving target but we average about 80%. >> thank you. my time is expired. >> it is my pleasure to yield to you your five minutes for your questioning of the director.

thank you very much. >> thank you, madam chair. thanks for being here today. p.the federal court issued that for the vaccine mandate for federal employees or any employee is fired for not receiving the vaccine prior to the injunction being issued? >> congressman, i don't have the exact numbers off the top of my head. i can certainly follow up and get that information to you. >> are you saying you believe some were fired but you don't have the exact number? >> i do believe somewhere, but i do not have that information in front of me and i can certainly get back to you. >> do you know if those employees will be rehired? >> i will consult with my directors. there's processes we are observing and we can get back to you with that exact information. >> thank you very much. other federal agencies are

creating databases to request religious exemption. the vaccine mandate and federal employees have they created a database? >> with the mandate we were exploring it and reviewing and improving as necessary religious and medical exemptions. we have seized that process because of the preliminary injunction and we are following the guidance given to us. i just want to make sure i understand this. so you work on the database and you are not now? that's what i understood. >> yes we track it. we have a process to keep track of the information, so yes there is a database along with everything else we do it's tracked for accountability purposes so we know what the status is and things of that nature. we have since seized enforcement of that. >> i appreciate the line of

questioning because i have a lot of similar type of questions. in my opening statement i mentioned a couple examples because of covid 19. are they tracking rates to see if individuals who have been released because of covid 19 crimes after the release? >> congressman, the recidivism data, the rate is 43%. the states actually owned the recidivism data. we work with them and i don't know if enough time has elapsed the carespassing of act but i would have to ask specific questions about that. but again there is a difference between someone we release in tracking them and someone who's still in our custody. >> so, i understand the court makes the final determination on a compassionate release

petition. are you tracking those that have been released on compassionate release at all with recidivism rates? >> congressman, i don't want to misspeak again when we release someone from our custody the bureau doesn't track them, they are released from custody and our returning citizens. the state again owns the recidivism data and we've worked with them and other entities. i can have my staff get back with you. i honestly don't know the exact procedures that we can get that information for you. >> i appreciate that and i wish you would reach out to my staff. in particular for instance i want to make sure i understand in arizona if someone is given compassionate release, the arizona law enforcement department of public safety, someone is tracking it and gives you data, is that your

understanding? >> yes, it is a collaboration of us n working for the state and other law enforcement entities. there's a lot of moving parts that's way above my head but yes the data is obviously being tracked. >> i guess i've been asking that. i assume the first step act the same thing on the recidivism issue. >> in the first step act data we are working with outside consultants to review data and things like that. we are working on a platform. i know one of the criticisms early on we had a lot of moving parts and there is a lot of entities here we have to collaborate with other local state and federal law enforcement agencies to do that. >> director, i hope that we can get that information sooner rather than later and whatever we can do to help facilitate that, please let me know and iwe will have my office reach out and you can have your office

reach out to mine. this information is critical because everybody wants to understand that. thanks again for being here. anmy time is expired and i will yield back. >> i would thank the chair man, the ranking member very much and i will now yield myself testimony for five minutes. my time is short. thank you so very much, i appreciate your respect on that. in the penitentiary in texas on monday, all facilities that had locked down, can you explain the decision to institute the lockdown, the national lockdown and how long inmates are confined to their cells during a 24 hour period? if you can give a brief answer on that, we will take a longer a one in writing. director? >> yes, congresswoman. the decision to lock down the entire agency is a serious one. we did it because we felt we needed to to find out what's

going on. i won't get into the specific operations but the groups involved are spread throughout the agency and we need to make sure that we separated them and secure them hoping the lockdown will be short-lived.. we do not like keeping inmates in their cells and we will do our best to get them out as quickly that keeping safety with everyone in mind. >> thank you. if you would give the committee and update on the moment of the lockdown stops, we would appreciate it for all the members.s. following up, in texas, a security facility has ten infected inmates, 942 recovered from covid. that seems high out of 1,974 total inmates including the camp and correctional institution, which includes low offense individuals. that's almost half of the inmate population that's been infected with. covid-19. twenty staff are positive right now and how many inmates were placed into home confinement and

how many were released under the compassionate release? are older inmates in those facilities given priority to be nyassessed for release under the compassionate release or forced to step act and if so, what age is given priority if not by age are any ann inmates close and if you can answer the last question first, please. >> yes, congresswoman. i don't have the exact data for the specific institution. we can certainly get you that data. we don't have that. >> is that ongoing to be utilized today since it is still operable in the law? >> absolutely. we continue to scream inmates for appropriate placement under the cares act. >> and under the act with your discretion, individuals do not have to meet the 50% time of

their sentence, is that correct? >> thaty. is one of the criteria along with others. there's four hard criteria. >> but it's correct they do not have to meet the incarceration rate of the sentence? >> in instances like that, we do have the discretion there is a higher level review and if the staff feel it is appropriate outside of the cares act, we have procedures in place for cases such asce that. >> mr. manafort and mr. cohen, to your knowledge, not 50% of the sentence is that correct? >> i'm not going to talk about individual specific cases, congresswoman. but we have procedures in place and a a committee that reviews them and i can certainly go through that process if you like. >> i would appreciate if you could provide in writing if you're not going to discuss it on the individuals release under the 50% rule. let me ask what are you doing to prevent more deaths in the

facilities? >> congresswoman, we've been in lockstep with the cdc and other entities from day number one and we are doing the same thing everyone in the country into the world is doing, learning how to mitigate this virus as stated earlier that it's hard to social distance inside of a prison. that's why we appreciate the ability under the cares act to transfer people out because we were able to lower the population with security facilities and the one you described. we are following cdc guidance and we do everything in collaboration with them and the pandemic plan actually assisted in writing the correctional guidance for thehe pandemic. >> thank you, director and i will get the rest in writing. are you aware of the racially disparate impact of the pattern risk assessment tool inmates of color may be more likely than white and with this in mind have you considered revising the threshold categories that would

enable more individuals to earn credits with early release and maximize the benefits of the first step act and take away the racial disparity that we see very clearly? >> director? >> congresswoman, i want to express one thing. the pattern toolt did not develop, it was by an ij and approved by the attorney general. we are aware of changes. we've appropriately made those adjustments and we work with the department to do that. we are the end user of that tool. we did not create it. >> finally, do you think it would help inmates on the compassionate release if they filed the motion rather than man-made? >> congresswoman, as i stated earlier, wer don't have the authority to independently release someone. we work with the department of justice and make recommendations to the court. the judiciary makes the final decision and we do make the staff available to gather documents and we worked with of the attorneys and the public defenders and of the courts to

ensure all the documents are available so we can -- it isn't a quick process that. that's what people need to understand. compassionate release process is difficult and has to be done individually. each individual case has to be fully considered under its unique circumstances. it's not a fast process. >> my time is expired. thank you. we will pursue that with you. i yield five minutes to the gentleman from ohio, mr. shabbat's. >> i want to thank you for being here with of the committee today. before coming to congress, over a quarter-century ago now, i served as a local elected official on the cincinnati city council and on the county commission, hamilton county ohio and in those two capacities, i was a very involved with our incarceration at the local level, things like double selling inmates to help with the overcrowding situation that we had and then work release programs where we got inmates

out, cutting down weeds, two-for-one type programs and those type of things. so, when i got here to congress and then to the judiciary committee, i wanted to continue in that effort and one of the closest things most prison industries that ios want to discuss your in a second but i also got involved and worked with, for example, former representative rob portman who is now the united states senator and was one of the principal moving forces for the second chance act which we work with him on and then the first step act which we passed some time ago and i worked with adam schiff in a bipartisan manner of the justice reinvestment initiative to make sure that members we sent out letters over the yearsse urging members to support funding for that particular program. so, before i ask about the

prison industries i want is a most of the inmates we have at the federal level, this is certainly the case of the local level as well. these inmates, whereas for the most part do need to be removed from society as they've committed a crime, but the fact is the vast majority of the folks are going h to be out on e streets someday so as a society we are better off if we recognize that and if possible, reform some of them and give them job skills that they can actually work in the private sector someday to keep them from coming back. it doesn't work perfectly, but ittt can work and i strongly support those and will continue to do that. back to back to the industries which then transformed. this is the program that we have where the prisoners at the federal level actually are in work programs learning a skill that they will hopefully be able to carry over to the private

sector and what should help the recidivism rates, which means people don't come back toie prin and at the recidivism rates are too high. as we know people do tend to come back but this is one where over timear they tend to be betr when you give people a skill. and often times we might think of a stereotype of people making license plates or something but it could be furniture, it could be a whole range of things. i would just like to give you a little time here if you could to tell us how that program is going, what your experience has been, how it has it affected the recidivism rate, is it a positive thing, those types of things mr. director. >> thank you, congressman. absolutely it's a benefit to the agency established by congress in 1934. the sole mission is to train and employ inmates for exactly what you said. it givesis them a skill to retun back to society. about the last recidivism review

that is couple of-years-old 24% work for the federal industries were less likely to recidivate. 16% were more likely to be gainfully employed upon release, so it is a good program. we like to say it is one of our number one if not the number one evidence-based program because it teaches the skills you spoke of. you're correct [inaudible] it's important to do that we have a board of directors that take the responsibility very seriously and they minimize the impact to any given industry. certainly we do that in the hearings and things of that nature for those that think that we are taking from local industry there's procedures in place to comply with that. >> thank you very much. i don't have a lot of time left so d one other thing. it's one of the greatest challenges you have when inmates are there that they are

criminals, so they got there because they committed a crime and they can pray on each other or they can make it a very verydangerous for the guard, soa like the industry is that a mechanism for a tool for maintaining kind of good behavior and making sure that it is a less dangerous environment exam it otherwise might be? >> absolutely, congressman. one of the biggest things that we battle his idle minds. so anything we can do to keep people productive learning a trade or skill is our goal. >> thank you very much and i think my time is expired, so i will yield back. >> let me for a moment thank the members that are here today. i want to acknowledge congressman lou, congressman cohen, congressman big, congressman stu b, congress

woman [inaudible] fitzgerald, thank you for your presence here today. my pleasure now to yield five minutes to the gentle lady from florida you are now recognized. thank you so very much for your service. >> good morning and thank you, madam chairwoman. thank you for the exceptional work that you are doing on this particular area. i want to make it clear that we all understand we also understand many of them will integrate back into society and it is incumbent upon us to make sure thatit they have the training, tools that they need to be successful. we all understand that. director, you spoke a little bit about unicorp and how successful

it has been. could you talk a little bit more about that program and how we could even improve upon the success and how congress can be a better partner helping those that will be coming back into society? >> i appreciate that, congresswoman. i think speaking about it and being able to support the program in itself often times we are criticized that we are taking jobs from the local communities and as stated earlier we have a board of directorses who oversees. it's a great program and the more we can keep inmates teaching them the trades. the other thing we are teaching them the soft skills of free entry. some of these folks have never had an actual job and punch the clock soac to speak. they are also earning a decent living for being incarcerated.

part of that is paying for financial responsibility. a lot of them are able to help support their families. again, teaching that soft skill which is 50% of the mission of reentry. i have to stress we want the same thing, we want people to go back to society as productive members of society, and we are committed to doing that. themm mission is keeping people safe and secure, the other half, which we are equally committed to, is making sure they get the skills to go back and be productive members in the community. >> thank you for that. you also talk about in your opening statement to some of the challenges that you have in terms of meeting staffing requirements, that you are being outbid by other state and local organizations or agencies. i'm certainly sensitive to that. could you talk a little bit more about increased salaries is probably the answer, but could you talk about some of the other maybe creative ways that you are looking to not only recruit but

also retain them? >> very much a priority for us and always has been. yi stated earlier there is a narrative out there that we can't hire. we've proved we can hire. we have some that are difficult to staff in those spaces you stated we have a hard time competing with local industries or other correctional agencies. we don't set the pay advance for that. we are working with ofha the department and we use recruitment and retention incentives and we use relocation incentives. all of those are things we work with to get approval from the department and support to be able to look at these areas. some of the hardest to stuff places as the congresswoman stated earlier it's hard to compete with local industries

when frankly they can get paid more working down the street and that is one of the challenges. it's a great facility i spent 40 years of my career there so it's not the facility. it's us being able to compete with of the location. >> and director, finally i remember hearing some concerns about were centered around officer safety because of staffing shortages where personnel that were not necessarilyar trained as correctional officers if you will were being utilized in that capacity. could you talk about a bit more about that? >> yes, congresswoman. i appreciate the opportunity to set the record straight. we wouldn't -- we are very fortunate as a correctional agency one of the things we pride ourselves on and all of our staff are correctional trained workers that have received the same training regardless of where they were, so we have uniform staff that are correctional officers and

the nurses, the teachers, everyone goese through the exact same training. that gives us the ability to utilize the staff faithfully. so that narrative is inaccurate when you hear it. we are challenged with staffing and i will tell you that we are funded at 90%. during my tour as director, the priority we have funded all of the physicians that we get money for -- positions we get money for. int hired a thousand over. we are able to do that because the human resources. we try to get ahead of it. it's a constant challenge. there's a lot of moving parts it's a large organization. 38,000 staff, a lot of people to keep track of. >> thank you so much, director. i'm out of time and i will yield back. thank you. >> the gentle lady yields back. -lher time is expired. thank you. it's my pleasure to yield five minutes now to congressman stu

b. >> thank you, madam chair. director, thanks for being here. obviously the committee has a lot of questions, and we appreciate your attendance. july 1st of last year i wrote a letter to both you and the wdirector of the dc departmentf corrections about the treatment of the january 6th suspects. your office responded on july 201st. the dc department of corrections correctionshas so far refused td almost after the fact that i sent a letter. director, i recognize many of the most egregious examples of mistreatment of january 6th inmates happened not in your system, but in the dc jail. it has been reported that a january 6th inmates in the dc jail who are not vaccinated for covid-19 are forced into solitary confinement for 14 days after meeting with their attorney. yes or no, does the same policy work in your facilities? >> no, congressman, we do not. >> while, i'm glad to hear that

and if it also highlights the step in the policies of the dc jail regarding january 6 inmates. it's also been reported that january 6 inmates in the dc jail have not been allowed haircuts or to attend religious services unless they are vaccinated for covid-19. yes or no, do you have the same policy? >> no, congressman. we treat all the people in our custody, everybody has equal access and is treated with dignity and has access to everything equallyal regardless- >> thank you for your response. it further shows how egregious the jails mistreatment of january 6 inmatese goes. it's furtherer been reported january 6 inmates in the jails s have been denied medical treatment, and this was largely the basis for a federal judge finding the world and in contempt. in your experience as a career in law enforcement officer and prison official, is this acceptable conduct by the

correctional institution to deny medical treatment? >> congressman, i am not going to comment on what another correctional agency does without knowing all the information. i woulddhe stress to you -- >> i'm highlighting the q difference is how you run your agency and how they are running theirs. additionally i would asksk for n update on the statistics were of inmates in custody that are awaiting trial and the number of such inmates that are in special

housing units. second, the number of january 6 inmatesth serving sentences and the number of such inmates who are in special housing units. i would ask your commitment today tots get me those respons. >> yes, congressman. i canet get you those responses. we have 19 in our custody. eight are pretrial and as to the specific housing to date, i don't want to misspeak but i will follow-up witht that information with your staff. >> i would appreciate that. you said in 19 in custody and how many pretrial? >> 19 in custody, eight are pretrial. i don't know their exact status and i don't want to misspeak. >> if you could provide the details of that not just to me but the members of this committee i'm sure would also be interested on that information. i've got a little bit of time left, so one more question. your office response to my letter was noted judges, quote, routinely make recommendations to the bureau regarding placement of an inmate. at a a specific institution or enrollment programs, and you

also noted your offices require a good-faith effort to follow these judicial recommendations. i would point out such judicial recommendations are often very much at the discretion of the judge and while i have faith in the judiciary to call off the strikes on o the legal matters n discretionary issues such as this, it is obvious it's possible for the diocese to come into play soom my question if te judge makes a recommendation on the terms of the january 6 inmates custody and the recommendation was influenced by the judge's political leanings, they would become followed by policy to make a good-faith effort to follow the recommendation, is that correct? >> congressman, recommendations that are made by the judiciary we certainly respect them and work with them, but there's a lot of moving parts in the agency. we make the final determination and it's simply not a recommendation. we ultimately make the decisions based on the best place to keep people safe and secure.

>> thank you madam chair. my time is expired. >> thank you and it is my pleasure to now yield five minutes to the gentle lady from pennsylvania, congresswoman dean. >> i thank you, madam chair, for hosting this important hearing and director for your work. >> for the treatment and vocational training and life skills i also hope they are expanding substance use disorder treatment recovery. helping to break the cycle of recidivism and reincarceration which is why i reintroduced

elijah cummings. legislation that would ensure that incarcerated individuals receive educational opportunities they need and after completing the sentences. could you give us an information on the number of people today and rolled in your system and educational opportunity? >> the current information one of the 80 we were hindered and how to slow things down. we've done a lotot of work with expanding programs and have

dedicated staff to make sure that we process that population and we work with the department of labor for apprenticeship programs because we know the vocational trades. what percentage are enrolled in educational p programs? >> i don't have the exact numbers but i will certainly follow up and i'm sure we can get you that information. >> if you could share t >> i don't have the exact numbers off my head, but i'll follow up. i'm sure we could get you that information. >> terrific. if you would share that with the committee, that would be great. what programs are in place regarding addiction and substance use disorder, what percentage of inmates struggle with either mental health or addiction, and how many are being offered treatment?

>> we have many drug abuse programs available. we have our residential drug abuse program that is one of our best evidence-based programs. we also, under the first step back, we extended our map treatments that targets a specific set of people with opioid use disorder, and we currently work on expanding those treatments. i don't know the exact percentage. it is a high amount of people that come into our system with drug and alcohol abuse programs all have the exact percentages, but we could certainly get them to you. >> i would really appreciate it if we could get the percentages and also to understand if treatment is universally available throughout the system. we know that there is a high correlation of addiction and substance use disorder and incarceration. on to the solitary confinement in the few minutes that i have left, we read reports, we hear

from inmates and their families on the dangerous side effects of solitary confinement, the serious long-lasting damage contrary to the last set of questions i just asked you. pre-pandemic, it was conservatively estimated that 60,000 to 80,000 people were confined to solitary, and we understand that solitary may have been used as a substitute during covid for isolation, medically required isolation. can you give us an update on the use of solitary confinement, and importantly, i hope, on a recognition that it is a failed practice. >> yes, congresswoman, we have around 9,000 inmates at any given time in our restrictive housing units. about 8,000 of those are, for administrative purposes, pending

placements. there are 1100 pending disciplinary action. we try to use alternative sanctions and we try to limit the time that someone spends in restrictive housing. one of the things we've done to address this issue just for some of the reasons you stated is we've expanded what we call reintegration housing program, which allows a group of inmates who tend to spend time in restrictive housing a general population atmosphere, a smaller general population so we can remove them from restrictive housing. we monitor them daily. we're committed to making sure everyone in there has access to programming, medical and everything else. we also make sure we make rounds daily ask check on the inmates. they have constant inmate contact. >> i thank you for your answers and i will wait for answers coming to the committee, and i yield back. >> i'm happy to yield five

minutes to mr. tiffany. mr. tiffany, you're up for five minutes. >> thank you. can those who are fired as a result of not taking the vaccine, can they get their jobs back? >> congressman, we have processes for all that, and i'm certain we will follow them in the appropriate due process. following opm guidance, regulations and all the rules and laws. >> is prison ministry allowed in the bureau of prisons. >> yes, sir, they are. >> have they been in during covid? >> well, we had to restrict, through our covid operations, obviously, people coming in for their safety and ours. we don't want to introduce covid into our environment. it's been restrictive, but we have a matrix out there

operational. if they fall into that criteria, they can make adjustments daily. for any given place, congressman, i can't answer that for you today, but we can get you the information if you're interested in a specific location. >> please do that. with the explosion in crime in the united states the last couple years, have you seen increase in the inmate population in bureau prisons? >> actually, congressman, our population has decreased over the last several years. >> is part of that as a result of the covid releases that you've done? i think you detailed those numbers earlier. >> yes, congressman, it is, and please keep in mind that we're on the back end of the criminal justice system, so it takes time to go through the system, so i would defer some of that information probably to the doj. we get them at the back end of it. >> thank you very much. whether you're vaccinated or unvaccinated, you can still contract covid-19. why are we still releasing

inmates? >> congressman, if i understand your question correctly, under the c.a.r.e.s. act, is that your question? why are we releasing under the c.a.r.e.s. act? >> yes. >> it's a statute. we're following that, the guidance we're given, so we follow that, congressman. >> do you think we should rethink that as a congress that sets this policy or can change the policy? >> congressman, i would defer to you and the members of congress to answer that. >> we had the two stabbing deaths down in -- i believe it was the beaumont facility in texas. prior to the stabbing incident, if these two people would have had covid, is it possible they could have asked for release

under the law? >> well, congressman, i want to make sure i paint the right picture here. we're going to appropriately review everybody by the criteria, but the security level where this incident happened and the fact that these individuals were members of a security threat group and in high security, the chances of them being released were probably very slim, because one of the criteria is you cannot have a crime of violence, and it appears these two individuals were involved in violence. precisely why prisons exist. there are a small fraction of people that are going to continue their criminal activity. >> so it's not completely ruled out that they could have gotten released? >> congressman, that's why we have the criteria. we utilize our good discretion and judgment and follow that statute. >> federal prison inmates are keeping large sums of money, as much as $100,000 each, in government-run deposit accounts, effectively shielded from court

orders, including people like the pedophile larry nassar, the boston bomber. what specific plans does the bureau have in place to ensure that victims get what they are owed? >> congressman, good question. first i want to stress that the bop does not have authority to seize funds from an inmate without their consent. we are working with the department of justice to change that rule that would allow us to automatically encumber funds or a portion of their funds to pay fines and restitution. our inmate trust fund collects about 6 million annually to make sure they pay restitution, but i stress again that we don't independently have the authority to retrieve funds. we work with other law enforcement communities, in that case the united states martial's office and the attorney's office in the courts when we have to do that. >> i think that's something that needs to be looked at. the other thing i would urge, madam chair, after hearing mr.

stubing's questioning, and i'm so glad the resident from california was concerned about solitary confinement. we need to have a full, full hearing of what is going on with those january 6 detainees, because they're being submitted to conditions that many on this committee, including the other side of the aisle, find reprehensible. it's time to have a hearing on january 6 detainees. i yield back. >> thank you, gentleman. the gentleman's time has expired and i'm pleased to yield to the gentlelady from pennsylvania, ms. scanlon. you're recognized now for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. i appreciate you having this hearing today, and thank you, mr. carbajal, for being with us. i was hoping you could clear up the baseline population we're talking about here. so as i understand it, the inmate population for the bureau of prisons from 1940 to 1980 was

around 24,000, is that right? >> yes, ma'am. if my memory serves me correctly, yes. i don't have that information right in front of me. >> i'm actually pulling it off your website here. so then the population doubled in the '80s to about 58,000, doubled again in the '90s to 136,000 and continued to climb until 2013, at which point the bureau of prisons was housing about 217,000 people, is that right? >> that is correct. >> so what is your current census of inmates in the bureau of prisons? >> i'm not sure i understand your question, congresswoman. >> so are you currently housing about 153,000 inmates? >> yes. i'm sorry, i didn't hear you. about 153,000. 143,000 in our 120 bureau facilities. there's about 6200 in four

private contract facilities, 7100 in rocs and the 5400 i mentioned on home confinement for c.a.r.e.s. act. >> thank you. i was trying to figure out where the numbers were. >> that's a rough estimate. they change daily. >> i think everyone on the committee knows that by the time we got to, you know, 2013 or so, we had widespread agreement, everyone from the koch brothers, saying we were housing too many inmates and it's a human capital and human rights problem. there's been some emphasis on the purpose of the bureau of prisons for housing, but it also has punishment, right? >> we're not here for punishment. we're here to house people

remanded in our custody and more important to get them ready for society. punishment is not our interest. >> and some of the inmates in the rehabilitative section, to ensure that when people are released from prison they are able to successfully reenter and that they are not worse off before they went in, because that doesn't seem to serve society well, either. what is the current recidivism rate, to your knowledge, from the federal prisons? >> it's about 43%. >> okay. you might want to update the website. it says 34%. has there been a significant change in recent years? >> no, ma'am, i'll have to have my staff look at that website. i'm not familiar with it being in the 30s. >> okay. it's on the home page. so with respect to my colleague,

ms. dean, talked a little bit about the educational programs. i recently had a constituent reach out about a relative's participation in the drug abuse rehabilitation program, and they've encountered problems getting all their earned credits counted toward release because the program was paused by covid-19. and eventually this constituent's relative was able to get the credits, but they had to go to court, and that's not a particularly cost-effective method of dealing with this for anyone. i know that ordep was paused at many facilities. is that still the case, and if not, is it back up and running at all facilities where it was previously offered? >> yes, congresswoman. as i stated earlier, covid certainly impacts our institutions. we have operational matrix that dictates how they operate. we have been affected by it. i know certain inmates have been

affected. we expect our staff to work with them. i'm not familiar with a particular case you're talking about, but we can certainly get back with you on the specifics of that case. but otherwise we go to the point of trying to work with them so they can benefit from home confinement, finishing the program, getting their time credits. the whole goal is for them to get the time credits. again, i'd like to stress that we're not trying to keep people in unless they need to be in. if they earn any time credits, we want them to go back to society as appropriate. >> one last question. i'm running out of time. i was very interested in the apprenticeship programs so the inmates have hard skills to employ them when they get out. how many places have apprenticeship programs and what is being enabled to expand that? >> your time has expired. i will allow you to answer the question. thank you. >> thank you. >> we can get back to you with that information.

we are working with department of labor to grow that program. >> thank you. i appreciate it. i yield back. >> thank you to the gentlelady for her questioning. now it's my privilege to yield five minutes to mr. massey. the gentleman is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chairwoman. i want to thank you, director carbajal, for your staff being responsive to one of my inquiries about how many vaccination exemptions have been granted at the bop. it looks like as of january 20th, there were 4,738 exemptions. most of them were religious exemptions. instead of asking you, i want to inform you that this has had a very negative effect on the morale of the officers, the fact that they are required to live under a vaccine mandate and the inmates are not. it's kind of interesting that the inmates have more rights than the officers themselves. they also resent that they've had to apply for religious

exemptions when, in fact, they should have been granted a medical exemption. but at least some of them have been able to get the exemptions, and you may want to check in on whether you completely suspended this mandate because there are officers who are still required to do the weekly testing if they're not vaccinated per the mandate and also to certify that they have a religious exemption, even as of this week, they've had to do that. but i appreciate the accommodations that you have made because it will negatively affect morale and recruiting if we do keep this vaccine mandate in place. i want to ask you how many correctional officers were budgeted for the bop by congress. i'll give you my number. it's not a gotcha. the number i have, i'm just trying to see if it's correct, is 24,446. >> yes, congressman.

again, i appreciate the opportunity to clarify that. specific correctional officers, what we call the correctional officer that work those posts, is approximately 14,000. of the 20,000 you're referring to is 6,000 additional support positions that fall under the correctional officer series. this is a classification issue, and it's often confusing. that encumbers other positions that work in correctional services, but the actual true correctional officers we look at is approximately 14,000. >> have the 6,000 been hired? >> we have currently, congressman, about 1100 correctional officer vacancies right now. almost half of those are at seven locations that are hard to fill. >> okay. there is one facility in my district, the ashland fci, where five years ago they had 130 officers, now they have 100, and they're told they'll go to 98,

yet they have more inmates. we see augmentation is being used there. so i'm concerned that the inmates are going out but the officers are going down. i'd like for it to be a safe environment, and i think if it's understaffed, it's not safe. also they're utilizing overtime virtually every day at that facility, and it would be cheaper for the taxpayers if we had more slots filled. i've heard that augmentation is being used there to backfill some of those slots. i'm not going to debate whether they're trained enough. you've already addressed that and you've assured us they are. but what is augmentation and where did those people come from when they go serve in roles that correctional officers might otherwise fill? i think you're muted, director. >> sorry. augmentation is a necessary tool that we use in our agency to

make sure that we complete the first part of our mission first, and that's to keep everyone safe and secure, in order to be able to do the second part of our mission which is give people a chance to return. we don't like to do it but it's a tool we have to use. we use people from other disciplines such as teachers, nurses, things of that nature. we try to limit that. those decisions are based upon a roster locally that the ceo makes those determinations. i stated earlier we have approximately 1100 correctional officer vacancies. i'd like to stress, congressman, that we are funded at 90%. we have 38,884 positions. we are funded for 30,361. we're about $500 million short. it's currently 92%. so our goal is to fill every single position we are fund

unded for, but i can't spend money we don't have. >> i'd like for you to look specifically at ashville fci. when you take people away from being teachers to being guards or other services, then the teaching doesn't happen and we could see higher recidivism because we know that vocational schools and education correlate to recidivism. so i would hope that you can get those slots filled, that we can get more slots, we can rely less on overtime and rely less on pulling those teachers away who are so important, and the other people who are important for complying with first step. thank you, gentlewoman, i yield back. >> i'm pleased to announce the lady from georgia, ms. mcbath, is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chairwoman lee.

good afternoon, director carbajal. i thank you for being here today, and i thank you for your service as the director as you'll soon be leaving the bureau, and we just want to thank you for your service. during this subcommittee's last hearing, we had an opportunity to review implementation of the first step act at the bop and the impact that covid-19 has had on the bop operations. i used that opportunity to inquire at that time into the bop's policies addressing the treatment and care of pregnant women, specifically the bop's alignment with national guidance for the health and safety of pregnant women. since that time, i was pleased to hear that the bop has taken actions to better align its policies on about five of the eight care topics that the g.a. found to not fully be aligned with the national guidance recommendations. i hope that the bureau will continue to work to ensure that

all eight of those care topics are met so that the health and well-being of pregnant women at the bop facilities, they're fully protected and cared for. today, however, i do want to examine how bop is handling its reentry services. the successful reentry of citizens into society, as well as any recidivism efforts, crime and the financial health of these offenders rejoining society. however, it's kind of difficult to, i guess, actually to assess recidivism patterns unless you were properly collecting the data on it. for example, the last federal justice statistics publication of recidivism of federal offenders i was able to locate was published in june 2016, and the latest publication on the employment statuses of released public offenders covers them released back in 2010.

so the latest publication on recidivism that i was able to find was from 2006. so, director carbajal, what steps has the bop taken to improve its data collection to more effectively track the progress of incarcerated individuals as they transition from prison to reentry centers or home confinement? and does the bop have plans to create standard metrics to evaluate reentry outcomes such as job placement recidivism so the bop facilities can share their best practices? >> yes, congresswoman, i appreciate your interest in this. this is very important to us. it's a very complicated process gathering recidivism data. we are not sole owners of that data. i will tell you my staff are working with other components to set up a platform, and we're committed to working on bettering that platform to get

that data and track it. >> sir, then once that is done or initiated and completed, could you just please -- my staff, we would love to have what that platform looks like and what it entails, if you would. >> yes, we can do that, congresswoman. >> thank you. i'm also curious to know how many reentry coordinators that the board of prisons have per prison or per prisoner. how many vacancies are there for these jobs? you made mention of the number of vacanies that you have, but how many vacancies are for these jobs and what steps has the board of prisons taken to fill these positions? >> yes, congresswoman. we are committed to filling all our vacancies. as i stated earlier, we strive to do that. i don't know the exact number of reentry coordinators, but those are positions we strive to fill, as we do all our positions, and as i stated earlier, we have

filled every position we have funding for, and we're committed to continue to do that. i can get you the exact numbers. i don't have them in front of me. >> we really appreciate that effort. i think my colleagues and i would be really interested to have that information, and i really appreciate that. well, as has been stated by many of my colleagues before me, you know, we're very, very concerned about, you know, actually -- people say that criminals have rights, and yes, they do have rights, just as victims have rights, and we just want to make sure that when those that are incarcerated do have the ability to have fair treatment while they are incarcerated, because at the end of the day, they're human beings, too. thank you so much, madam chair. i yield back the balance of my time. >> the lady has yielded back. thank you. it is my privilege now to yield

five minutes to the gentleman, mr. fitzgerald. you're recognized for five minutes. thank you. >> thank you, madam chair. sorry about that. my colleagues on the other side of the aisle introduced several pieces of legislation that would eliminate bail in the federal system and make states that utilize bail for pre-trial release ineligible for grants under the edward burn assistance program. violent criminals seem to be released either on bond or when they're involved in some of these terrible crimes of which some of my colleagues have been talking about this morning. jurisdictions in california, maryland, new jersey, new york

and in my own district which i represent milwaukee county, to deemphasize bail systems. coupled with, i think, some of my colleagues desire -- which has been going on for a year -- discussions about defunding or dismantling the police departments or bail reform efforts. you know, it's troubling, i think, and it's making some of the communities less safe or it's sending the wrong signal or message to some of these individuals that ultimately commit these crimes. additionally, the pre-trial integrity and safety act would provide grants to states if they eliminate their money bail systems. and then things like the minnesota freedom fund of which, you know, even vice president harris was involved in for a

period of time. so this fund and others that are similar have kind of contributed, i think, to this overall concern. and then right in my backyard in the fifth congressional district in wisconsin, we had the national attention given to the waukesha christmas parade of murders that happened. darrell brooks, the individual, was released on a $1,000 bond after running over a woman with a vehicle. this is prior to the parade. and then he was released on bail despite having a lengthy criminal history, including a charge for aggravated battery in an outstanding warrant in nevada after skipping bail for a sex-related crime. then, as you know, he subsequently drove his car through the christmas parade in waukesha, wisconsin, killing six individuals, one of whom was an

eight-year-old boy. bail reform policies such as cashless bail that have been supported by some of my colleagues actually do more harm than help in what i would consider some of the minority communities that could have benefited from, i think, some of these reforms as we discussed them at the state and federal level. so, director, i guess crimes that are considered felonies are being treated as misdemeanors or civil infractions. you know, in controlling kind of the criminal and the justice system from the perspective of the benefit always goes kind of to the criminal, what's the fallout? i know you talked about this earlier, but under the first step, the prisons create rules

around evidence-based recidivism programs and productivity. can you comment? i mean, there has to be a relationship between those incarcerated and certainly the set of statutes both at the state and federal level and how they affect that. what's the interaction during your period of time as director? >> congressman, i'm not sure i understand your question. you know, we're committed to reentry. that's 50% part of our mission. the others we're keeping safe and secure. we don't control who comes in our custody. that's in the front of the justice system, the court, to determine that. when they come in here, our mission is to keep everyone safe and secure and make sure they have equal access to programming. as i stated before, 94% of those people return to society. >> just one more quick one. in my experience as a state

legislator, as well as, i think, in kind of the relationship i've tried to develop with the federal system within the state of wisconsin, one of the things that's always linked is the literacy rate compared to recidivism. you know, we find that if an inmate can read at an eighth grade level, they're far more likely to recommit. is that something you guys have looked at or checked into, and is it something you monitor? >> yes, congressman, we have lots of literacy programs, high school equivalency, ged, and that's part of the risk assessment when they come in. we assess them and we address their needs. we assign them programs to address their needs. that's what the first step act is for. we have a long risk assessment, we just formalized it in the first step act. >> thank you, chairman. i yield back. >> i thank the gentleman for his

questioning. now i'm pleased to yield to the gentlelady from st. louis, missouri, vice chair of this committee. congressman bush, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chairwoman, for convening this important hearing. i ask for unanimous consent to enter into the record the experiences of 17 women across five federal facilities which have been provided by the national council of incarcerated and formerly incarcerated women and girls. >> without objection, so entered. >> thank you. in these e-mails, women in federal custody detail horrifying accounts of not being allowed to get out of their beds all day because of covid lockdowns, being forced to eat expired food, having little to no access to medical services to treat cancers and other underlying conditions, having to pay $2 to file a sick complaint. this is all happening under your watch. these are complaints coming from

not one, not two facilities, but five different facilities, which makes clear that these issues are not isolated, but they're systemic. these women cannot hold you accountable, mr. carbajal, they cannot, but we can. and i would like to use this opportunity to ask you questions that they cannot directly ask you out of fear of retaliation. so, mr. carbajal, yes or no. are you aware of these complaints across so many of your facilities? >> congresswoman, i'm not aware of those particular complaints, but i'm certainly interested in hearing from you and your staff so we can look into them, because i find that unacceptable. >> thank you. our staff will be in touch. thank you for that. i have complaints about people in bop custody being logged, and am i able to access those logs? >> we absolutely keep a log of complaints. we take all allegations seriously. we have an office of internal

affairs. we follow the process. we work with the office of the inspector general. and when needed in other law enforcement agencies, the fbi and investigatory services, we take all of those complaints and allegations seriously and we look into them. >> am i able to access the logs? >> congresswoman, if you'd like, i can have my staff reach out to you, see if we can get particular information you're interested in, and if we can, we will provide that to you. >> thank you. thank you. in the midst of a raging pandemic that has made incarcerated individuals uniquely vulnerable, rather than allowing people to serve their sentences at home and away from the trauma of the bop system, the federal prison population has grown. keeping them in prison is an act of cruelty. in april of last year, you told the senate judiciary committee that 50% to 75% of those incarcerated have been reviewed for home confinement, and that 24,000 out of over 150,000

people in federal custody have been placed in home confinement. as of today, have all of those incarcerated been reviewed for home confinement now instead of the 50% to 75%? >> we review all inmates for home confinement under the c.a.r.e.s. act. more than 9,000 were specific under c.a.r.e.s. act placement. those are 9,000 inmates that would not be in custody in our population. >> we looked at the website earlier today, so is the website inaccurate? >> i'm not sure which information you're referring to. >> we went to the federal bureau of prisons website. two weeks ago, i, along with representative bonnie wauser

man-coldman, we went to the office of home confinement under the c.a.r.e.s. act. we asked for a response no later than february 7 of this year. can we get a commitment from you that such a response is forthcoming, mr. carbajal? >> congresswoman, i'm aware of your letter and we are certainly working on answering it. understand, please, there is a clearance process of which i do not control, but we are committed to getting you a response to your letter. >> thank you. my office will be in contact. i yield back. >> the gentlelady yields back. thank you very much. it's my pleasure now to yield to the gentleman from iowa, mr. owens, for five minutes. mr. owens, you're recognized for five minutes. we'll then be happy now to move to the gentleman from rhode island, mr. ciccolini.

mr. ciccolini, you are recognized now for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair, and thank you, director, for being here. i too join in the letter ms. bush just referenced and i look forward to hearing about that. we talked about your response to the pandemic and specifically discussed release. given all the evidence we've seen about successful reintegration during covid, it seems to me it makes sense to fully utilize this tool. my first question is, what is the bureau of prisons' current policy to consider release of individuals with the highest risk of serious illness from covid-19? >> congressman, the compassionate release process is sometimes confused with the home

confinement which we used for quicker placement. the compassionate release process is more difficult. it wasn't meant to be a consistent process. >> so is it my understanding you don't use compassionate release or recommend compassionate release to people who have a serious risk of illness with covid-19? you don't use that process at all? >> under the c.a.r.e.s. act, we review everyone for placement of home confinement, but if they follow a reduction in sentence motion, we do evaluate it and assess it under our policy, we just don't independently release someone from our custody. >> i know you don't. my question is do you use compassionate release of individuals who are at a high risk of serious illness of covid and what is your rate of releasing a serious individual? it's not a hard question. >> if they make a request, we review it. it's appropriate we make the

motion. if not, it is denied. >> health care workers across the country are obviously experiencing burnout because of the pandemic. i assume your staff feels the same, especially given the outbreak in the facilities. considering the ongoing risk of covid-19 and bop's expanded authority to release individuals to home confinement, why is bop not utilizing mitigation strategies like that more fully to release the number of incarcerated individuals in federal prison? >> we are utilizing it, congressman. we make recommendations to the court as appropriate, the court makes the final decision, not the bop. if the motion is made up of the inmate on the first step act, which they can do in 30 days, we don't take the first position on the motion. it goes through the system. >> director, my colleague

congressman dean raised questions about solitary confinement, and the numbers she referenced i concur with. the number increased 500% in 2020 to about 300,000 people in solitary confinement at any one time. the policy of using solitary or restrictive housing as a substitute for cdc-recommended medical isolation has caused unbelievable harms to incarcerated individuals. my question is what steps has the bop leadership taken to ensure it's following the appropriate guidance, like the cdc guidance, to place people in medical isolation, not solitary confinement or restrictive housing during this or any other public emergency? >> congressman, we follow the cdc guidance. in some cases we go above and beyond. i'd like to clarify, though, that medical isolation is often confused with solitary confinement. there are instances when inmates placed in restrictive housing are isolated also, medically isolated, and in those cases

it's appropriate. we don't place people from the general population who are placed in medical isolation, we don't place them in restrictive housing. if there is a case where it's an issue where we're out of space or something, they are appropriately tagged. there are different rules for that. >> director, in 2020, there was a statement used for solitary confinement, irreprehensible use of solitary confinement can lead to anxiety and severe mental pain and suffering and suicidal tendencies. this may end up in solitary torture, end quote. is the bop aware of the damage of solitary confinement to individuals in their care, and

do you have policies to reduce solitary confinement, and would you furnish this committee with all the supporting documents to reveal to us really the status of the use of solitary confinement and your efforts to mitigate it? i think you're on mute, mr. director. >> sorry. yes, congressman, that's a lot of information. we will certainly get that to you. i will tell you that we are committed to continuing to appropriately reduce our use of restrictive housing. in some cases there is a reason for it, but we have policies in place, making rounds, making sure they have access to programming and earning time credits. we can get you all that information and we can answer any questions you like regarding that. >> i appreciate that. and director, one final note. the fact that you check in on somebody while they're experiencing what is psychological torture isn't sufficient, so i look forward to that information. i thank the chairwoman and yield back. >> thank you, the gentleman's

time is expired. thank you, and my pleasure now to yield to the distinguished gentleman from california, among many members of our committee, and you're now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chairwoman, for holding this important meeting. thank you, mr. carbajal, for your service. how many doses of vaccines do you administer? >> we've administered 200,000 doses. 80% of our staff is vaccinated and about 70% of our inmate population. it's a moving target because there's always people coming in and out. every single person is offered the opportunity to be vaccinated. >> did anybody die as a result of getting the covid-19 vaccine?

>> congressman, i do not know that. i would have to get you information from a medical doctor. i don't have that information in front of me. >> sir, you would have been told if someone died after getting the covid-19 vaccine, wouldn't you have? >> i'm sure i would have, congressman. i just don't have that information in front of me. >> why don't you get back to us, but i'm telling you, you would have been told if that, in fact, happened. did you see the cdc say if you get a covid-19 vaccine and a booster shot, you are 97 times less likely to die than if you're unvaccinated, from covid. are you aware of that? >> yes, congressman. >> okay. so i want to agree with the former president who said that covid-19 vaccines are one of the greatest achievements of mankind. and i want to talk about the religious exemptions. i happen to be catholic.

the pope was also called the vicar of christ, has said that getting the covid-19 vaccine is a moral obligation. what i want to know is would the bureau of prisons have given any exemptions to folks that are catholic, and if so, what possible basis could that be? >> i don't personally review those exemptions. we have processes in place, and i'm certain we could get you that information. we have actually ceased because of the preliminary injunction. we ceased the process of medical and religious exemptions for the time being. >> if you could get me that information, that would be great. now, chairman -- chairwoman jackson lee, i'd like to enter "bureau prison capital forces under scrutiny for d.c. protests

and training mishaps." the second article is titled "the story behind bill barr's federal agents" from "politico" and is dated june 5, 2020. director carbajal, i would like to ask you, were bureau prisons personnel used to crack down on protesters, and were they, in fact, unmarked? >> congressman, we did assist the department of justice and other law enforcement components during those protests initially, and i was asked this question during a press conference. initially within the first few days, our staff were not properly marked. in essence, for the people on the civilian side to recognize them, they had institution logos. we corrected that within a couple of days. we appropriately marked them to show they were bureau of prisons personnel. it was an oversight. when it came to our attention, we appropriately marked them.

they all now are deployed. they're undeployed, they are marked for future attention. we have deployed them since and they are all appropriately identified as federal bureau officers. >> there are also allegations that there was excessive use of force, that some of them may have used tear gas and other actions that were not appropriate. so my question goes to training. these bureau prison folks, they're trained to deal with prison issues. do they also get training on dealing with crowds who are exercising their first amendment right to free speech? >> yes, congressman. i know that some of those things are under current review, so i don't think it would be appropriate for me to comment on

them. i could check back with my staff or check the status of that, and we can answer your questions off line. i don't want to misspeak in this forum. the matter is still under review. >> thank you. if you could get me that information, it's important, because i introduced to congressman beulenhaur for the deputy who was denying inmates their free speech. with that i yield back. >> there go my fingers again, but i thank you, mr. lieu, for your questioning. it's my privilege now to yield to another important distinguished member of this

whole body and that is mr. cohen of tennessee. mr. cohen of tennessee, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chairwoman, and thank you for holding this hearing. if i ask you any questions that were asked earlier, mr. carbajal, let me know. these are important issues and i want to make this hearing, and i'm happy i can. the pandemic has highlighted many failings in the federal bureau system. unfortunately, they failed to protect the health of those in their custody and the staff from covid-19 or addressed understaffing. they have addressed important criminal justice reforms such as the first step act, mr. carbajal. what lessons have you learned during your tenure and what advice do you have for your successor to address some of these issues we've seen in the bureau of prisons? mr. carbajal? >> congressman, sorry, i was

trying to unmute here. if you're asking about the lessons learned from the pandemic, first off we followed cdc guides from day one. we learned that we need to protect the most vulnerable, the elderly, isolate the sick, quarantine the exposed. the same lessons that the rest of the country and the world have known. restrict movement, communicate better. those are some of the lessons learned, and i think that we've got good processes in place. we work with the cdc. we've invited them into our institutions. they have visited us, and our pandemic plan has worked in collaboration with the cdc. >> let me ask you about the first step act. that was one of the few successes mr. trump had, that and the operation warp speed. it seems like it should have been pursued with vigor, and it wasn't. the first step act tried to get individuals who should have been eligible for release, not operation warp speed for the bureau of prisons.

>> mr. congressman, i'm not sure what you're referring to. we are compliant with the first step back and we had the need assessment the first formalized. we released inmates under the first step act -- >> was there a date in late january that you needed to have a certain report in on folks that would be eligible for release. maybe you got it done. i don't know. but at one point, it wasn't done. >> we were waiting for the finalization of the rule. we submitted that rule at the end of january 20 and it was finalized in january. we are statutory compliant with the first step act, congressman. >> that's good. i wrote a letter urging them to avoid the reincarceration of those released.

in your view, was home confinement successful, and do you agree that those released have largely improved their ability to successfully simulate into their homes, families and communities? >> congressman, we're always committed to returning people to society. we understand it's important in the c.a.r.e.s. act. we've released over 37,000 to home confinement. 9,000 of those under the c.a.r.e.s. act. only 320 of those have reoffended and we follow the statute and the rules. we follow the laws that are implemented and we continue to do so. >> the department of justice office of legal council published a memorandum reporting that the bureau of prisons was not required to release those to prison once the emergency period ended. but has the bureau of prisons under your guidance begun taking steps to effectuate the

department of justice memorandum so they can remain on home confinement? >> yes, congressman, i'm aware of the opinion. we're working with the department. we are not -- we have not nailed down the how. when we do that, we will make it as transparent as possible to make sure everyone gets the information. but we certainly take the information and guidance of the attorney general, we'll continue to follow the laws. >> thank you, sir. let me ask you this. you were the head of the bureau of prisons, were you not, when mr. epstein allegedly committed suicide? >> no, i was not, congressman. >> you were there when michael cohen was arrested and brought back and put into solitary confinement, were you not? >> i believe that did happen under my tour, yes. >> did you have -- were you asked -- did you have anything to do with that? were you made aware of it, the desire to have him brought back into custody and put into

solitary confinement? >> no, congressman, i was not made aware of that. i was briefed on it afterwards. i was not directly involved in that decision. >> thank you. based on mr. -- last question, madam chair. since mr. epstein committed suicide and the security there was awful, have you seen to it that ms. maxwell has better care or supervision to make sure she doesn't do anything to end her life? >> i'll let the director answer the question. the gentleman's time as expired. director, you may answer. >> yes, congressman. i don't want to discuss specific security issues on any individual, but we appropriately ensure that people in our care are -- have the appropriate supervision and security. >> thank you, sir. thank you, madam chair. >> thank you very much. this has been an important hearing, insightful by members

on both sides of the aisle. as we come to a conclusion, mr. biggs, as ranking member, do you have any additional points that you might want to place on the record at this time? >> thank you, madam chair. if you will, thank you, director for being here. and i look forward to the number of responses that you indicated to me that you would have your staff get to me. i look forward to seeing those and, madam chair, i'll yield back to you. >> i thank the gentleman very much. director, just one final point that comes out of the testimony of dr. homer vinters who was with us in our previous hearing, his investigation revealed a disturbing lack of access to care when a new medical problem is encountered. we've heard those lines of questions coming from several

members. this process calls -- in most settings relies on the ability of incarcerated people to submit a written concern and then be seen in a face-to-face encounter within a day or two. in the first facility that he had the time to -- had the opportunity to visit as he inspected, the detention center quickly became apparent that not only were many people reporting that their sick call requests were being ignored, but that the facility was actually destroying their original request which violates basic connectional standards. this is a recognition that there should be, if you will, accountability and the exercise of the punitive measures, we all have concluded that these are human beings deserving of restoration and dignity. men and women. can you comment on that kind of action?

>> yes, congresswoman, i appreciate you allowing me to clarify that. first off, i am aware of the report. we looked into it. we followed up. i won't discuss the specific incident, but i will reassure you that each of our institutions has an outpatient clinic, it's overseen by a board state certified physician and a medical director. we have outside oversight. we have joint commission, aca, we've received is same reviews that any outside clinic or nursing home would have. our mortalities are reviewed by an independent review. we get oversight. if there's a mistake made or something of that nature, we're going to look into it and do something about it, correct the issue. >> thank you, director. what i would ask specifically is some of the questions that may not have been answered more thoroughly and our staff will get with you so we can get answers in writing and that, in particular, at the metropolitan detention center in brooklyn,

new york, i wanted a direct response and answer on that matter and i thank you for that. i'm also going to suggest that there is a board of health oversight for the department prison -- federal bureau of prisons. i know you have a number of other agencies. but i think one that is specifically focused on helping the bureau going forward will be very helpful. let me finally submit into the record, a man died of covid-19, cases spike at women's facility. as i conclude, director, let me say, i'm not sure whether or not you'll appear before this committee or a committee in the other body. let me take this opportunity to show our appreciation from a person who has chosen as his career to serve the nation. and obviously, coming into the bureau many, many years ago, you have continued to make a commitment to serve this nation. so it is my privilege to be able to say thank you for your

service and should not go unnoticed. you've served under many administrations, democratic and republic. and you've chosen to commit yourself to hopefully the lives and the ultimate liberty of individuals that we hope will be restored and will enter into society and never to return again. i hope that is your vision. you stayed. and as i thank you, i want to make sure we thank the hard-working officers that go by the appropriate mixture of reform, accountability and compassion. thank you, again, for your testimony this morning. this concludes -- and your service to the nation. this concludes today's hearing. thank you to your distinguished witness for attending. without objection, all members will have five legislative days to submit skills written questions for the witness or additional materials for the record. the hearing is now adjourned. i hope that was heard. thank you very much. >> thank you, congresswoman.

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