>> c-span is your one stop guide the our nation's commanders in chief. find short biographies, video resource, life facts, telling the story of their lives and president cease, nall uneasy to browse c-span website. visit the website to begin exploring this rich source today. the head of the federal bureau of prison testified about the first step act. this house judiciary subcommittee on crime hearing

also touched on recidivism rates, education skills training for inmates, and vaccine mandates for prison employees. >> the dee will come to order. good morning again, and welcome to today's oversight hearing of the federal bureau of prisons. i would like to remind members that we have established an email address and districts list to circulate exhibits, motions or other written materials that members might want to offer as part of our hearing today. if you would like to submit materials, please send them to the email address that has been previously tributed to your offices and we will circulate the materials to members and staff as quickly as we can. i would also ask all members to mute your micro phones when you are not speaking. this will help prevent feedback and other technical issues. you may unmute yourself any time you seek recognition. i now recognize myself for an

opening statement. today's hearing on oversight of the federal bureau of prison is a follow-up to the hearing the subcommittee held on january 21st, 2022, and it was our commitment to our members that they would have the actual represent isn'tive at this time of the federal bureau of prisons to be able to hear directly from the leadership and to secure answers the hearing last week probed the bureaus implementation the first step act, the covid-19, and the response to the pandemic. and other topics, crucial top ics in the line of justice. i am pleased to have the director here today so we may

delve deeply into many issues faced by the bureau. two years into the pandemic covid-19 remains a pressing issue as the virus continues to wreak havoc for people living or working in confined spaces, which is especially true for the prison system where social mediaing must be balanced with the need to ensure safety and security. we continue to hear horror stories of bop facilities struggling tom contain the virus. we heard last week from senator chris murphy thatological 40% of inmates at ban dairy were either in isolation or quarantine with only 80 officers available for service, which means each officer on duty was responsible for three prison units.

we must work together to ensure that the remnants of the past that can be corrected by this administration that has a new approach to this system. then on monday we learned that the women's nilt fort worth in texas, my state has the fourth highest covid positive numbers of any facility in the country. eight women have died of covid-19 at fmc carswell since the beginning of the pandemic while 18 inmates have died of covid at forth mail facility. in the last weeks the number has fluctuated between 6,000 and 9,000 inmates. in that same two week period five inmates in bop custody have died from covid-19 bringing the number of inmates who died of covid-19 related illnesses to 284. it appears there are too many inmates in the facility to

control the spread of vane and it appears there has been a slow and ineffective utilization of compassion release. the bureau of prisons has compassionate relief, the c.a.r.e.s. act, and the first step. modified even by then attorney general barr. although, using overly restrictive criteria, bop released thousands of prisoners under the c.a.r.e.s. act who re-established themselves with their families and communities and more importantly have not reoffended, the bop should rescind the previous administration's decision that would have called many of them back unnecessarily. i think it is important to note these individuals who had been released were released on their application for compassionate release as opposed to the bop assessing their prisoners and determining whether they could be released. however, as thousands continue

the test positive for covid-19 and others die, bop has failed. i think they are just waiting. some may day. from january 1st, 2020 to january 302021, they filed less than 1% of the compassionate relief homeowners associations filed in the entire country. to address this issue, we expanded compassionate release and later expanded it again the allow inmates to file their own motions 30 days after they first made a request with their warden. one quart of the inmates who died in custody of covid-related illnesses actually filed application for compassionate release raising questions about the -- while -- staff operate

with compassion, sensitivity, and strength as they work every single day. 98 facilities remain at level three which includes social distancing at all facilities. as of monday this incident raises concern about the set a of the facility. particularly in my backyard, beaumont which has staffing shortages. the consequences of staffing shortages have been referenced time and time again. the death of jeffrey epstein one example. i went to that facility. i saw the need, the freezing

cold and the needs of those employees that were there. they begged for help and didn't get it. precip at a timed the closing. our chairman worked hard on this issue. i hope as we go forward we will listen to the issues. we know some issues are being investigated by the oig. we understand that conditions in many of the prisons are not what they should be. we know that the pad risk assessment two at the first step act and other patent programs have not been effect ofly employed.

prison is a place of accountability and punishment. but it should also be a place of redemption, restoration, service, and certainly a place that is decent for staff to work at. i look forward to this discussion with our director and i look forward to continuing to restore the federal prison bureau the way it should perform. without objection i submit into the record written documents from allen kay for the january 22, 2022 meeting. written statements submitted by dr. homer vincent from the january 22, 2022 subcommittee. i now recognized the

distinguished member from arizona, the ranking member, for his opening statement. thank you, and welcome, mr. davis. >> thank you madam chair. and i first thank you madam chair, for holding this hearing. and i also thank you for bringing in director of prisons director carbajal. because i think that your swift response to many of us who requested that his presence be here. and i appreciate your response to that, madam chair. and we are grateful for that. and i welcome director carbajal as well. thank you for your service, sir. we are glad to have you here today. the federal bureau of prisons is tasked with protecting society by confining offenders in the controlled environment of prisons and community-based facilities. don't's duty is not merely to provide housing, food, and security for federal inmates but also to help inmates become law-abiding citizens upon release. all americans have an interest

in bop's mission because the vast majority of federal inmates, well above 90%, will some day be released into our communities regardless of our efforts to reduce recidivism. bop's job is not an easy task. it has only become more complicated due to covid-19. in response the covid-19, bop undertook a number of steps to safeguard the health, safety of inmates, bureau of prison staff and the public. bop prioritized inmates for home confinement who did not present a risk to public and restricted movements between facilities. these are reasonable measures. the other side want to go further and continue to use covid-19 to let even more convicted criminals back on our streets.

they even passed legislation in the house to release criminals from state and local jails. the consequence of these actions have deadly real world results as we have unfortunately seen. in march of 2021. eric rhine bold was released from bop custody after being compassionate release based on covid vulnerability. by july, just four months later he was accused and charged with murdering his wife. just a few weeks ago, in oregon, clifr upped grove was charged with first degree robbery first degree death and felony fleeing and unlawful use of a weapon. he had been granted compassionate release for covid related reasons the previous year. in spite of these enumerous crimes that have been committed by inmates released early my colleagues across the aisle are calling for more inmates to be

released regardless of their crime or prison stems. democrats on this committee want to open the jails and defund the police. they are turning the public health crisis into a public safety crisis as well. i -- i tell you, director carbajal to pass on our appreciation to your officers and employees, they have a tough job and to that enthey have our support. i understand many voiced concern over the biden covid vaccine mandate. i look forward to hearing from director carbajal today, and i also trust, madam chair, that we will soon have the d.c. director the u.s. marshall's office in for a hearing as well. i think some of the evidence that came out of last week's hearing would do well on both

sides of the aisle. and i appreciate you again bringing in director carbajal. i thank you, madam chair. i yield back the balance of my time. >> i thank the ranking member for his statement. i acknowledge at this time the service of our chairman, and ranking member. thank them for their leadership in this committee. it is now my pleasure to introduce today's witnesses -- or witness. and that is michael carbajal. who is the director the federal bureau of prisons. he began his career with the bureau of prisons in 1992 as a correctional officer at the federal correctional institute three rivers, texas. he is in essence a committed, dedicated servant to the federal bureau of prisons. he served in position of leadership in texas, kansas, louisiana, before becoming the regional director of northeast region in 2016.

mr. carbajal became the assistant director for the correctional programs division in 2018 and held that position until he was appointed director in 2020 in the last administration. let me again take note of his service and as well the many corrections officers that i have had -- and staff -- the privilege of meeting throughout the system. as i indicated, our task here is to provide a reform and restoration, and continued improvement on the institution of the federal bureau of prisons. we welcome you, mr. carbajal -- director carbajal, and we thank you for your participation i'll begin by swearing in our witness. i ask our witness to turn on your audio and make sure that i can see your face, and raise your right hand while i administer the oath. do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the

testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief. so help you god? >> yes, i do. >> thank you. let the record show the witness answered in the affirmative. thank you. please note that your written statement will be entered into the record in its entirety. accordingly, i and that you summarize your testimony in five minutes. to help you stay within the time frame there is a timing light on your screen. when the light switches from green to you have one minute to conclude your testimony. when the light turns red it signals that your five minutes have expired. i now recognize director carbajal for five minutes. thank you. you are recognized. >> thank you. and good morning chairwoman jackson lee and ranking member biggs and other distinguished members of the committee. it is my honor to speak today on the professionals who workday in

and day out to support our criminal account mission. the bureau's work is challenging and has been exacerbated by the covid-19 virus. our management of the pandemic has been scrutinized despite the fact we have worked in lock step with the cdc in shaping the guidance for the benefit of everyone who works in the environment. the bureau is one of the first federal agencies to offer covid testing and vaccinations. in january of 2021, the cdc recognized the for leading in its rate of vaccination utilization. 80% of our staff and 70% of our inmates have been fully vaccinated and we continue to increase those rates. after issuance of the c.a.r.e.s. act the bureau began screen asking transferring vulnerable and eligible inmates to reentry centers and home confinement. the bowero transferred more than 37,000, 9,000 pursuant to the

c.a.r.e.s. act. it continues based on assessments and the balance with our law enforcement mission. another criticism is that we are understaffed. the narrative is routinely misrepresented without reference to factual data. we have correctional vacant audios, seven out of the 121 make up almost 40% of our vacant cease. increasing and maintaining our staffing levels woin appropriated funding levels remains our priority. last calendar year we hired more than 3,000 stur staff. we have proven that we can hire employees. although hiring is not an issue at the majority of our locations we routinely outbid by competing state or local corrections or law enforcement agency who is pay a higher wage. accordingly we continue to work with the department to consider the use of additional incentives so we may be more competitive. another area of misguided criticism is the implementation of the first step act. the bureau worked with the

development on the development of the risk and needs assessment system in support of the national institute of justice who developed the risk assessment 2508 called pattern. staff were trained on the first step act including the pattern tool and we worked with the union to support policies that support implementation of the law. we recome aught toed the sentences of over 150,000 inmates to make sure they received good conduct time under the new law. we are delivering more than 80 different programs based on inmate assessments. we hired additional staff to expand our reentry programs and initiated programs for special needs and women and vocational training. over 75,000 inmates part mated in first step act programs in 2021 inspite of the constraints caused by the covid-19 pandemic. we are modernizing the education platform to the use of tablets for better accessibility and

created an online system. additionally, we are exploring ways to provide inmates with id cards compatible under the real id act. we extanged with he can especially experts to evaluate our programs and working with dij to review our risk and needs assessment system. we are also enhancing monitoring and valleys evaluation of our programs and our spending. the bop worked in concert with the department to finalize the rule regarding first step act time credits. we applied the rule retroactively and immediately released almost 4,000 from home confinement and rocs. we are currently temperaturing 2500 into prerelease custody. in sum, over 8,000 inmates have had their time credits applied. the bureau supports and has always been committed to the

implementation the first step act. and we are statutorily compliant. last year the governmental accountability office reported highlighted areas where the bureau needed to improve. in response, i established a task force to address these areas. as a result of the task force's work, eight of the priority recommendations identify are now closed. our work in this area continues. chair woman, ranking member, and other distinguished members of the committee, this concludes my statement. >> madam chair, i think you are still on mute. >> because my very delicate fingers -- i press it and it doesn't want to open up. let me try to hit it real hard. let me do something a little different, if i might and i'm

not sure -- is miss baz here? >> yes i'm here. >> imgoing to yield to you for beginning at this time, and i will follow. thank you so very much. miss bass is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madam chair. good morning, director. i am glad to have you here before the committee today. i am suri you are aware two weeks ago the subcommittee held a meeting on matters pertaining to the bureau of prisons the first step act and covid epidemic. i was glad to hear from experts on these topics but i am still left with a few questions, questions i believe you might be able to answer. femme lirs thank you for your service to the bop and also to acknowledge your quick responsiveness on occasions when i reached out with specific

topic. the bop was provided additional authority to grant compassionate release for incarcerated person who is met a number of criteria to demonstrate a low risk of reoffense as opposed to the way it was distribute described a few minutes ago, democrats asking for the prison doors to just be opened up incrime natalie. can you tell me how many people within the bop have been granted early release under this program? and i wanted to know, for those people that were granted, how many reoffended? i know there have been individual cases. but i know if you have any numbers overall, or percentages of how many people were reincarcerated due to a technical violation such as missing a curfew or a phone call, or how many people were released and unaccounted for, how many people offended again,

with violent crimes? >> thank you congresswoman bass, and i appreciate the opportunity to make distinctions here. i think there is often confusion. first, as i stated in the opening remarks we transferred 37,000 under the c.a.r.e.s. act to home confinement and compassionate release. under the statute, and our current policy, we make a recommendation to the court, the court makes the final decision, not the bureau of prisons. the bureau of prisons doesn't take a position on the motion in and of itself. as you stated there is criteria. we use our policy criteria to evaluate and ensure that each individual case, extraordinary and compelling circumstances this they are fully considered. individualized case. we also take into account public

safety and impact. we do not take part in the decision. i can't answer how many have been recidivists. wans once they are released they are not in our custody any more. in the c.a.r.e.s. act, 328 were brought back to secure custody. eight of those were new crimes. one was a serious crime. i don't have the details in front. >> you said again 320 -- could you repeat that again? >> yes. 320 of the inmates under c.a.r.e.s. act home confinement have reoffendsed and been back to secure custody. >> so you don't know of those 303:20 how many were technical violations that brought them back? you said eight committed new

crimes. can i assume that the rest were technicals or not? >> i can clarify that. the most common offense, about 160 of the 320 were for abuse of alcohol or drugs. some of them were escapes. they weren't where they were supposed to be. most of them were violations of that nature. some was misconduct. eight were new crimes committed. the rest were technical violations. >> can you talk about vaccine districts amongst staff, how many staff have been vaccinated, and also inmates? >> sure. our staff, approximately 80% of our staff, about 30,000 of our staff are fully vaccinated. we have about 95,000 -- 93,000, 95,000 inmates, it is a moving target. that's about 70% of our population we continue to offer the vaccine and the booster to all inmates. and of course people can change their mind at any time if they

choose to come back and get it. we make the vaccine available. >> for the 20% of the staff that are not vaccinated, what protocols do you have in place? do they have to get tested weekly? what's in place? >> yes. prior to the mandate we were offering weekly testing. it was voluntarily. obviously when the mandate came out, we mandated weekly testing for unvaccinated. there was a preliminary injunction issued in january by a judge. we are observing that. we ceased enforcement of the vaccine mandate and all processes with it. but we continue to encourage staff and inmates to be vaccinated. it is a moving target but we average about 80% staff, 70% inmates. >> thank you, my time is expired. >> fingers are now working. ranking member business, it is my pleasure to yield to you your five minutes for your questioning of the director. thank you very much.

>> thank you, madam chair. director carbajal, again thanks for being here. a court issued an injunction blocking the mandate for federal loyees. were any bop employees fired fire to that injunction being issued? >> i don't have the exact numbers off my head but we can certainly follow up and get that information back to you. >> director, are you saying, yes, you believe some were fired but you don't have the exact number? >> i believe some were, congressman, but i do not have that information in front of me. i can certainly get it back to you. >> do you know if those employees will be rehired? >> congressman, again, i'll consult with my human resource director. there is processes. so we are observing the processes. and they do have due process. so we can get back to you with that exact information. >> thank you very much. other federal agencies are creating databases to track

employees who request religious exemptions to president joe biden's vaccine mandate for federal employees. has the bop created a database of employees that request religious exemption requests. >> congressman w the mandate, we were exploring and reviewing and approving if necessary religious medical exemptions. we have vooesed that process because of the preliminary injunction and we are following the guidance given to us. >> i want to make sure -- i'm sorry. i didn't mean to interrupt. i just want to make sure i understand. you were constructing a database, and you are not now? is that what i understood? that's what i understood. >> yes, congressman, obviously we track it. we have a process to keep track of the information. so, yes, there is a database, along with everything else we do, it's tracked for accountability purposes so we know what the status is and things of that nature. we have since ceased enforcement of that. >> okay. i appreciate ms. bass's line of questions. i have a lot of the similar type

questions. so, good. in my opening statement i mentioned a couple of examples of individuals released from bop custody because of covid-19, and they committed serious crimes afterwards. is bop tracking recidivism rates to see if individuals who have been released because of covid-19 have committed crimes after their release? >> congressman, the recidivism data that we use -- our recidivism rate for the bureau of prison is 43%. the state's actually own the recidivism data. we work with them. i don't know if enough time elapsed since the passage of the c.a.r.e.s. act but i would have to ask specific questions about that. but, again, there is a difference between someone we release and tracking them and someone who is still in our custody in home confinement. >> so, i understand that the court makes the final determination on the compassionate release petition.

and are you tracking those who have been released on compassionate release at all for recidivism rates? >> congressman, i don't want to misspeak. again, when we release someone from our custody, we do not -- the bureau of prisons do not track them. they are released from our custody. they are returning citizens. the state owns the recidivism data. we work with them and other sebastian to get that. but i can have my staff get back with you. i am not -- obvious leap don't know the exact procedures but we can get the information for you. >> i appreciate that. and i wish you would, reach out to my staff. but in particular, for instance, i want to make sure i understand this. so in arizona, if someone who is given a compassionate release, you guys don't track it but the arizona law enforcement, department of corrections, department of public safety, someone is tracking it and gives you data. is that your understanding? >> yes, congressman, it is a a

collaboration of us working with the state and other law enforcement entities. there is a lot of moving parts here. again, way above my head but yes, that data is obviously being tracked. >> i have been asking about compassionate release. i would assume the first step act, same thing on the recidivism issue? >> yes. obviously, there is interest in, you know, our first step act data. and we are working with nij and outside consultants to review data and things like that. we are working on a platform. i know one of the criticisms early on is that we didn't have that data. again, there is a lot of moving parts. it isn't because we don't want to track it. there is a lot of entities here. we have to collaborate with local state and federal law enforcement agencies in order to do that. >> director, i would hope we can get that information sooner rather than later and whatever we can do to help facilitate that, let me know. i will have my office reach out

and have yours reach out to mine. i think this information is critical. i think everyone wants to understand that. thank you for being here. madam charks my time expired it. yield back. >> i thank you the chairman, the ranking member, very much. now i would yield myself the customary five minutes. my time is short, mr. carbajal. thank you so much, so i appreciate your respect of that. following the death of the inmates in texas monday all bop facilities have experienced a lockdown. can you explain the national lockdown and how long are inmates confined to their cells during the 24 period? if you can give a brief answer on that, we will take a longer one in writing. director? >> yes, congresswoman, the decision to lock down the entire agency is a serious one. we did it because we felt we needed to to find out what was

going on. i won't get into operational things. but the groups involved, there are 2500 in our custody spread throughout the agency. we need to make sure we separate them and secure them. i am hoping that the lockdown will be short-lived. we don't like keeping inmates again in their cells. and we will do our best to get them out as quickly. but keeping safety of everyone if mind. >> thank you. if you would give this committee an update on the moment that the lockdown stops, we would appreciate it. following up. beaumont low in texas a low security facility has ten infected inmates, 942 inmates that recovered from covid out of 1,974 inmates including the camp and correctional institution, which includes low offense individuals. that is almost half of the inmate population that has been infected with covid-19. 20 staff are positive right now, and 40 recovered. how many inmates were placed

into home confinement from beaumont low. how many were released under compassionate release or first step act in the so, what aged inmates are given priority? if not by age, are inmates at beaumont low given priority for release? you can answer the last question first, please. director? >> yes, congresswoman. i don't have the exact data for every specific institution. beaumont low, we can get you that data. i know we have it. i don't have it off the top. >> you use the c.a.r.e.s. act. is that ongoing to be utilized to date since it is still operable in law? do you use that? >> absolutely. we continue to screen inmates for appropriate placement on c.a.r.e.s. act. >> under the c.a.r.e.s. act, with your discretion, individuals do not have to meet the 50% time of their sentence;

is that correct? >> that is one of the criteria along with others. there is only four hard criteria. >> it's correct -- right, that they do not have to meet a 50% incarceration rate of their sentence? >> in instances like that, we to have the discretion. there is a usually a higher level review. if the staff at the prison feels it is appropriate outside of the c.a.r.e.s. act we have authority to review cases such as that. >> you have that authority. mr. man for the and mr. cohen do not have 50% of their sentences; is that correct? >> i am not going to talk about individual cases, congresswoman. but we have a procedure in place. we have a committee that reviews them. i can go through that process if you will like. >> appreciate it if you would provide it in writing if you are not going to discuss it on the individual's release under the 50% rule. what are you doing to prevent more covid-19 death in the bop

facilities? >> congresswoman, we have been in lock step with the cdc and other entities from day one. we are doing the same thing that everyone else in the country and world is doing. we are learning from -- learning how to mitigate this virus. i stated earlier that it is hard to social distance inside a prison. we have learned from that. that's why we appreciate the ability under c.a.r.e.s. act to transfer people out. because we were able to lower our population. in the low security institutions like the one you described. we following cdc guidance. we do everything in collaboration with them. thankfully, our pandemic plan assisted in writing the correctional guidance for the pandemic. >> thank you. thank you, director. i will get the rest in writing. thank you very much. are you aware of the racially risk of impact? with this in mind can you considered revising the cut off

between risk qualities which would allow more people to be released and get rid the racial disparity we are experiencing? >> the pattern was not developed by the bop. it is developed by niy and reviewed by the attorney general. we keep up with the changes. we work with the department. we are the ends user of that tool. we did not create it. >> final lesion do you think it would help inmates on the compassionate release if bop filed the motions rather than the inmates? >> congresswoman, as i stated earlier, we don't have the authority to independently release someone. we work with the department of justice, and we make recommendations to the court. the judiciary makes the final decision. we do make staff available to gather documents. we work with the attorneys. we work with the public defenders and the courts to ensure all the documents are

available so we can -- it is just not a quick process. that's what people needs need to understand. the compassionate release process is a difficult one and has to be done individually. each individual case has been fully considered under its unique circumstances it is not a fast process. >> thank you. my time expired. now yield five minutes to the gentleman from ohio. mr. chabot. >> thank you. before coming to congress over a quarter century ago now i served as local elected official on cincinnati city council and county commission, hamilton county, ohio n. those two capacities i was very involved with our incarceration at the local level. things like double filling inmates to help with the overcrowding problem we had. then work release programs where we got inmates out picking up

trash on highways, cutting down weeds. two for one type programs and those types things. when i got into congress and onto this committee, the judiciary committee i wanted to continue on that effort. one of the closest things was prison industries. i also got involved and worked with for example, former representative rob portman who is now a united states senator. and he was one of the principal moving forces for the second chance act which we worked with him on. and then the first step act, which we passed some time ago. and i work with adam shir in a bipartisan manner on the justice -- adam schiff in a bipartisan manner on the justice initiative. we send out letters over the years urging members to support funding for that particular program. so before i ask you about euni

core or prison industries i want say that most of the up mates at the federal level, certainly the case at the local level as well. these are inmates that for the most part need to be removed from society because they have committed a crime and yes, punishment is involved. but the truth is the vast majority of these folks are going to be out on our streets some day. we are better off as a society if we recognize that. and if possible reform some of them and give them job skills that they can actually work in the private sector some day to keep them from coming back. now, it doesn't work perfectly. but it can work. and i strongly support those, and will continue to do that. but back to prison industries, which trend transformed into euni core, this is the program that we have where the prisoners at the federal level actually are in work programs. so they are learning a skill that they will hopefully be able to carry over to the private

sector, which should help recidivism rates so people don't -- which means that people don't come back to prison. and the recidivism rates are far too high. as we know, people do ten to come back. but the rates are better when you actually get these people a skill. we oftentimes think of the stereotype of people making license plates or whatever. but it can be furniture, a whole range of things. i want give you a little bit of time here if you could tell us how that program is going. what your experience has been. how has it affected recidivism rates? is it a positive thing? those types of things, mr. director. >> yes, thank you congressman. unicore absolutely is a benefit the agency. it was establish by congress in 1934. the mission is to train and employ inmates for exactly what you said, to give them a skill to return productive members of society. you know, the -- about the last recidivism review they did on

unicore, which is several years old, 24% of inmates that worked for federal prison industries were less likely to recidivate, 67% were likely to be gainfully employed upon release. it is a good bram. we like to say it is number one. you are right, 95% of the people in custody are going return to society. it is important to do that. our board of directors take their responsibilities seriously to minimize the impact to any given industry. we do that through public comment, board hearings, things of that nature, for those who think we are taking from local industry, there is procedures if place to stay compliant with that. >> thank you very much. i don't have a lot of time left. let me ask one other thing. i know that it's one of the greatest challenges that you all have when inmates are there, a, they are criminals. they got there because they

committed a crime. they can prey on each other or they can make it dangerous for the guards. so a program like prison industries, is that also a mechanism for, you know, a tool for maintaining kind of good behavior and making sure it is a less dangerous environment than it otherwise might be? >> absolutely, congressman. one of the biggest things that we battle in a prison is idle minds. anything we can do to keep people productive or learning a trid or a skill is our goal. >> thank you very much. i think my time's expired, madam chair. so i yield back. >> gentleman's time is expirds. let me for a moment thank the members who are here today. i will yield to ms. simmons in a moment but i can't to acknowledge dean, scanlan, cicilline, liu, coleman, biggs, chad ott, stuby, tiffani,

massey, sparks, fitzgerald, and owens. thank you for your presence here today. my pleasure now to yield five minutes to the gentlewoman from great, ms. determination. >> good morning and thank you so much, madam chairwoman. attention for the exceptional work that you are doing in this particular area. director carbajal, it is great to see you, and thank you for joining us. i just want to first of all make it quite clear that we all understand that there are some people who need to be locked up. but we also understand that many of them will reintegrate back into society and it is incumbent upon us to make sure they have the tools they need to be successful. we all understand that. director, you spoke a little bit about unicore and how special it

has been. could you talk a little bit more about that program and how we can even improve upon the success of that program. how can congress be a better partner in helping those that will be coming back into society? >> yes, i appreciate that, congresswoman. i think speaking about it and being able to support the program in and of itself oftentimes we are criticized that we are taking jobs from the local communities. as i stated earlier, we have a board of directors who oversees that. it is a great program. the more that we can keep inmates, teaching the trades and working. the other thing that i think hits home is that we are teaching them the soft skills of reentry. some of these folks have never had an actual job in a factory, you know, punch a clock, so to speak. and they also are earning a decent living for being incarcerated. part of that is paying their financial responsibility.

a lot of them are able to help support their families. again, teaching that soft skill, which is 50% of our mission of reentry, i have to stress that we want the same thing, we want people to go back to society as productive members of society. and we are committed to doing that. half of our mission is keeping people safe and secure. the other half, which we are equally committed to is making sure they get the skills to go back and be productive members of the community. >> thank you for that. you also talked about your opening statement some of the challenge that you have in terms of needing staff and requirements, that you are being outbidded by other state and local organizations, certainly, or agencies, i'm certainly sensitive to that. could you talk a little bit more about what -- look, increased salaies is probably the answer. but could you talk about some of other, maybe concrete creative ways that you are looking to not only recruit c.o.s, but to

retain them? >> yes, thank you, congresswoman. very much a priority for us it always has been. again, i stated earlier that there is a narrative out there that we can't hire. that's not true. we proved we can hire. we have several locations that are chronically difficult to staff. in those places that you stated we have a hard time competing with local industry or other correctional industries we don't set the pay bench. opm does that. we are working with the department on other types of incentives. we usury krut men and intention incentives, relocation incentives. all of those are things that we work with to get approval from the department and support going to opm to be able the look at these areas. some of the hard to staff places as the congresswoman stated earlier, beaumont. bow month is atn a rest of u.s. -- is an arrested u.s. pay

scale. it is hard to get people there when they frankly can get paid more working down street. it is not the facility. i spent four years of my career there. it is not the facility. it is us competing with the other facility in the location. >> peschel that weren't necessarily trained as correctional officers, if you will, were being utilized in that capacity. could you talk about that. if that was just a rumor set all of us at ease about that. >> i appreciate the opportunity to set the record straight. first off, we would not put untrained people in there. it is one of the thing we pride ourselves on, all of our staff receive the same training regardless of where they work. we have uniform staff that are correctional officers, and the

nurses, the food service people, the teachers, everyone goes through the exact same training. that gives us the ability to utilize these staff safely. so that narrative is inaccurate when you hear it. we are challenged with staffing. we are funded at 90%. during my tour as director your priority has been staffing. we have funded all of the positions that we get money for. as i mentioned earlier, at one point i hired 1,000 over, my staff went 1,000 over. we are able to do that because human resources know our attrition rate. it is hard to get ahead of it. it is a challenge. there are lot of moving parts. it is a large organization. 38,000 staff is a lot of people to keep track of. >> thank you, director. madam chair, i am out of time. i yield back auto gentlewoman yields back. her time is expired. my pleasure to yield now five minutes to congressman stuby. you are recognized.

>> thank you madam chair. director, thanks for being here. obviously the committee has a lot of questions and we appreciate your attendance today. on july 1st of last year i wrote a letter to both you and the director the d.c. departments of corrections about the treatment of the january 6th suspects. your office responded on july 21st. the d.c. department of corrections has so far refused to answer and we are almost a year after the fact that i sent the letter. director i recognize that many of the most egregious examples of mistreatment of january 6th inmates happened not in your system but in the d.c. jail. it has been reported that january 6th inmates in the d.c. jail who are not vaccinated for covid-19 are forced into solitary confinement for 14 days after meeting with their attorneys. yes or no, does bop have the same policy in your facilities? >> no, congressman, we do not. >> i'm glad hear that.

that also highlights how out of step and illegal the policies of the d.c. regarding january 6th inmates is. it's also been reported that january 6th inmates in the d.c. jail have not been allowed haircuts or to attend religious services unless they are vaccinated for covid-19. yes or no, does bop have the same policy? >> no, congressman, we treat all people in our custody, everybody has equal access and is treated with dignity and has access to everything equally. regardless of -- >> this shows -- thank you for your response this. further shows how egregious the d.c. jail's treatments of january 6th inmates is. it has further been reported that inmates in the d.c. jail have been denied medical treatment. in your experience as a career law enforcement officer and a prison official is the

acceptable conduct for a institution to deny medical treatment? >> congressman, i am not going to comment on what another correctional agency does without knowing all of the information. i can stress to you that in the bop, who i represent, everyone has equal access, the medical care pramts programs, communities placement, things of that nature. i wouldn't know anything about d.c. -- i would advise you to contact d.c. corrections. >> i did, and they are not answering my questions. i am highlighting the difference between your agency and theirs. if you know the answers offhand that would be great. i understand if you don't have that in front of you or you don't know. but i would like your commitment today follow up with my office on the following, first, the number of january 6th inmates in your, in bop's custody that are awaiting trial and the number of such inmates who are in special housing units.

second, the number of january 6th inmates serving sentences, and the number of such inmates who are in special housing units. i would ask your commitment today to get me those responses. >> yes, congressman. i can get you those responses. we do ooshs i am aware we have 19 in our custody. eight are pretrial as to their specificing, i will follow up with that information with your staff. >> i would appreciate that. >> you said 19 in custody and how many in pretrial confine men? >> 19 in custody, eight in pretrial. i don't know their exactly status, i don't want to misspeak. >> provide that to me. i am not sure but i am sure other members of this committee would be interested in the answer to that question. one more question. judges rue tenially make recommendations to the bureau regarding placement of an inmate at a institution or enroll men

in programs. your office also noted that the bureau's policy requires a good faith evident to follow these judicial recommendations. i would point out judicial recommendations are very much at the discretion of the judge. while i generally have faith for them to call balls and strikes on purely legal matters on areas such as this it is obvious for personal biases to come into play. my question is this. if the judge makes a recommendation on the terms of the january 6th inmate's custody and it was based on political leanings, bop would be compelled on a good faith effort to follow that recommendation; is that correct? >> recommendations that are made by the judiciary, we respect them and work with them. there are a lot of moving parts inside our agency. we make the final determination. it is simply that, the recommendation. we give ate look but we make the

final decision on the best place to quarter and keep the inmate safe and secure. >> thank you, my time expired. >> it is my pleasure to yield five minutes to the gentlewoman from pennsylvania, congresswoman dean. >> i thank you, madam chair, for hosting this important hearing. and i thank you director carbajal for your work. i was happy to hear last april before a senate judiciary committee that bop was working to expand mental health treatment and vocational training and life skills. i also hope the bop is expanding substance use disorder treatment recovery therapy and the rest. one thing i have in mind in particular are educational opportunities. we know they make all the difference in helping to break this cycle of recidivism and reincarceration, which is why i introduced eliia cummings, the

prep act legislation that would ensure that incarcerated individuals receive educational opportunities they need to successfully re-enter their communities, re-enter their lives after completing their sentences. can you behind hindered by the pandemic, 150,000 inmates completed programming. of course, the literacy programs, the ged, we offer many trades. we have over 200 career technical educations. we have done a lot of work with expanding programs specifically for the female offenders. we have dedicated staff just to

make sure that we process that population special and unique needs. we're working with the department of labor to expand apprenticeship programs. we know that vocational trades help people get jobs when they go out. #. >> some of the things is higher education, what percentage of inmates are enrolled in educational programming? >> i don't have the numbers. i'll follow up. i'm sure we can get that you information. >> terrific. share that with the committee. that will be great. what programs are in place regarding substance use disorder. what percentage struggle with mental help nl or addiction and how many are being offered? treatment? >> we have a drug abuse program that is one of our best evidence

based programs. we also under the first step back we expanded our treatments, they target air specific subset for the opioid people with opioid use disorder. and we currently work on expanding those treatments. i he don't know the exact percentage. it is high amount of people that come into our system with drug and alcohol abuse programs. i don't have the exact percentages. we can certainly get them to you. >> i would really appreciate it if we can get the percentages and also to understand if it -- if treatment is universally available throughout the system. we know that there are -- is high correlation of addiction and substance use disorder and incarceration. on to the solitary confinement in a few minutes that i have left. we read reports. we hear from unmates and families on the dangerous side effects of solitary confinement. the serious lasting psychological damage contrary to the set of questions i just

asked you. it was conserve toughly estimated that 60,000 to 80,000 people were confined to solitary and we understand that solitary may have been used as a substitute during covid. >> we average around 9,000 inmates at any given time in our restrictive housing units. 8,000 are for administrative purposes, kun ducting investigations, sometimes separation for their own safety. there was 1100 in there for disciplinary action. we try to use alt earn tough sanctions. we try to eliminate the time someone spends in restricted housing. one we've done to address this

issue for the things you stated is that we've expanded what we call a reintergraduation housing program which allows that group of inmates who tend to spend time in restricted housing general population type atmosphere, a smaller general population so that we can remove them from the restricted housing. so that is something something that we monitor daily. we're committed to make ug sure that everyone has access to program, medical and everything else. we also ensure that we make rounds daily and check on the inmates. the they have constant inmate could be tact. >> i look forward to the information coming to the committee and you yield back. >> thank you, gentle lady. i'm pleased to yield five minutes to mr. tiffany. you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. good morning, madam chair. first of all, director, can those that were fired as result of not taking your staff as a

result of not taking the vaccine, can they get their jobs back? >> he would follow all the rules and laws. >> is prison ministries allowed in the bureau of prisons? >> yes, congressman, they are. >> have they been in during covid? >> well, we had to restrict through our covid operations, obviously, people coming in for their safety and ours. we don't want to introduce covid-19 to our environment. it's been restricted. we work on that. we have a matrix out there operational at the institution ceo if they fall into that criteria, they can make the adjustments daily. so i can't answer that today. but we can certainly get you the information if you're interested in the specific location. >> please do that.

with the explosion in crime in the united states the last couple years, have you seen an increase in the inmate population in the bureau of prisons? >> actually, congressman, our population decreased over the last several years. >> is part of that as a result of the covid-19 release that's you have done? i think you detail the numbers earlier. >> yes, congressman, it is. please keep in mind that we're on the back end of the criminal justice system. so it takes time to go through the system so i would defer some of that information probably to the doj. we get them at the back end of it. >> thank you very much. can you still contract covid-19 whether you're vaccinated or not. why are we still releasing inmates? >> congressman, if i understand your question, under the

c.a.r.e.s. act? >> yeah. yes. >> because it is a statute we're following it. the guidance that we were given. so we follow the law, congressman. >> do you think we should rethink that? as congress sets this policy? or can change the policy? >> congressman, i would defer you and your members of congress to answer that. >> so we had the two stabbing deaths down in i believe the beaumont facility in texas. prior to the stabbing incident, if if these two people would have had covid-19, is it possible they could have asked for release under the law? >> i want to paint the right picture here. we're going to review everybody by criteria. the security level where this

incident happened and the fact that these individuals members of security group threat, the chance of them being released is probably very slim because one of the criteria is you cannot have a crime of violence and it appears these two -- these individuals were involved in violence. they're going to continue their criminal activity. >> so it's not completely ruled out that they could have got released. >> that's why we have the criteria we utilize on good discretion and judgement and follow that statute. >> federal prison unmates are keeping large sums of money. effectively shielded from court orders including people like the pedophile larry nasser, the bo boston bomber. what specific plans does the bauer owe have if place to

ensure victims get what they are owed? >> congressman, good question. the i want to stress something that we do not have the authority to seize funds from an inmate without consent. we're working to change that rule that will allow us to incumber funds to pay fines and rest constitution. our inmate trust fund collects about $6 million annually to make sure that they pay rest constitution. but i stress we don't undependently have the authority to retrieve funds. we work with other law enforcement entities n that case, the united states marshal office, the united states attorney's office and the courts in those manners with very to do that. >> i think that is something, maed am chair that, should be looked at. the other thing i urge we need to hear after hearing the questioning and i'm so glad the representative from pennsylvania was concerned about the solitary confinement. we need to have a hearing on the january 6th detainees. we need to have a full, full

airing of what is going on with those january 6th detainees. they're being submitted to conditions that many on this committee including the other side of the aisle find reprehensible. it's time to have a hearing on january 6th detainees. i yield back. >> thank you, gentlemen. the gentlemen's time expired. i'm pleased to yield to the gentle lady from pennsylvania. you're recognized now for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. i appreciate you having this hearing today. thank you, director, for being with us. i was hoping you would help me clarify the baseline population that we're talking about here. sorry. so as i understand it, the uninmate population from 1940 to 1980 is around 24,000, is that right? >> yes, ma'am. if my memory serves me, yes.

>> so i'm pulling up your website here. >> that's right? >> that's correct. >> what is your current census of inmates in the bureau prisons. >> i don't understand. >> are you housing 153,000 unmates? >> yes, i'm sorry. i didn't hear you. about 153,000. 134,000 in our 120 bureau facilities, there are 6200 private contract facilities, 7100 in rocs and 5400 in the other facility. >> ways having trouble figuring

out where all the numbers were. >> those are estimates. they change daily. >> okay. i think everyone on the committee knows that by the time we got to, you know, 2013 or, so we had widespread agreement. everyone from the coke brothers to the obama justice department saying we are overincarcerating people in this country. it's a huge financial drain as well as a huge waste of human capital. i think a problem. there's been some emphasis on the purpose of the bureau of prisons for punishment. it also has a rehabilitative purpose, right? >> yes. i would like to stress something. we're not here for punishment. the taking about it courts for the criminal justice system, that's the punishment. we're here to how's people that are in our custody. more importantly, to prepare them to re-enter society. keep them safe while they're here. >> i'm particularly interested as my colleagues are in the

rehabilitative function, the efforts that are made to ensure when people are released from prison, they're able to successfully re-enter and that they're not worse off than they were before they went in because that doesn't serve society either. what is the current recidivism rate to your knowledge from the federal prisons? >> it's about 43%. >> okay. you may want to update the website. it says 34%. >> i'll have to have the staff look at that website. i'm not familiar it with being in the 30s. >> okay. it's on the home page. >> okay. we'll correct it. >> all right. so with respect to my colleague miss dean talked about some of the educational programs, i recently had a constituent reach out about a relative's participation in the bureau of

prison's drug rehab you willtation program. they encountered problems getting all the earned credits counted towards release because the program was paused by covid. and eventually this constituent's relate you have was able to get the credits. they had to go to court. and that's not a particularly cost effective method of deal with this for nu anyone. is that still the case and if not, is it back up and running at all facilities where previously offered? >> yes. as i stated earlier, covid-19 certainly impacts our institutions. we have operational matrix that dictates how they operate. we've been affected by it. i know that certain inmates have been affect iffed. -- affected. i'm not familiar with the particular case you're talking about. we can certainly get back to you on the specifics of that case. but otherwise, we go to the

point of trying to work with them so that they can benefit from home confinement, finishing the program, getting their time and all the whole is to get the time credits. again, i'd like to stress we're not trying to keep people in except unless they need to be in. if they are or any time credits, we want them to go back to society as appropriate. >> okay. one last question. i'm running out of time. i was very interested in the effort to put more apprenticeship programs in there so people have hard skills that will enautomobile them to become employed when they am come out. what is the trajectory on that? how many places have apprenticeship programs and what efforts are being made to expand that? >> your time has expired. director, i'll allow you to answer the question. >> thank you. >> congresswoman, we can get back to you with that information. we're working to grow that program. >> thank you. appreciate it. yield back. >> i thank the gentle lady for her questioning. now it's my privilege to yield

five minutes to mr. massey, the gentleman is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. i want to thank you, director, for your staff being responsist to my inquiries about how many vaccinations exemptions have been granted. as of january 20th, 4,738 exemptions, most of them were religious exemptions. instead of asking you, i want to inform you that this is having a very negative effect on the morale of the officers. the fact that they are required to live under a vaccine mandate and the inmates are not. it's kind of interesting that the inmates have more rights than the officers themselves. they also resent they had to apply for religious exemptions when in fact they should have been granted medical exemption. most of them have been automobile to get the

exemptions. you want to check to see if you suspended the mandate. there are still officers required to do the weekly testing and also to certificate few that they have religious exemption even as of this week they had to do. that i appreciate the accommodation that's you have made because it will negatively affect morale and recruiting if it we do keep this vaccine mandate in place. i want to ask you how many correctional officers were budgeted for the bop by congress? i'll give you my number. the number i have, i'm trying to see if it's correct, is 20,446. >> yes, congressman. again, this -- i appreciate the opportunity to clarify that. specific correctional officers, what we call the correctional officer that works the posts is approximately 14,000. the 20,000 you're referring to

is 6,000 additional support positions that fall under the correctional officer series. this is a classification issue. it is often confusing. that includes other position that's work in correctional services. actual true correctional officers that we look at is approximately 14,000. >> have the 6,000 been hired? >> we have currently, congressman, about 1100 correctional officers vacancies right now. almost half of those are at seven locations that are hard to fill. >> there is one facility in my district, the ashland fci. five years ago they had 130 officers and now they have 100 and told they're going to 98. yet they got more inmates. and we see that augmentation is used there. i'm concerned that the unmates inmates are going up and officers going down. i would like for it to be a sauf

environment. i think if it's understaffed it's not safe. also they're utilizing the overtime virtually every day at that facility. it is cheaper for taxpayers if we had more slots filled. and i heard that augmentation is used there to back fill some of the slots. i'm not going to debate whether they're trained enough. you already addressed that. you assured us that they are. but what is augmentation? where did those people come from when they go serve in it roles that correctional officers might otherwise fill? >> oh, i think you're muted, director. >> sorry. >> augmentation is a tool we use in our agency to make sure that we complete the first part of our mission first. that's to keep everyone safe and secure in order to be able to do

second part of our mission which is give people a chance to return. we use, try not to do it, it is certainly a tool we have to use. we use people from other disciplines such as teachers and nurses, things of that nature. we try to limit that. those decisions are based upon a roster. i state earlier, we have 1100 correctional officer vacancies. we are funded at 90%. we have 38,884 positions. we're funded for 35,161. much that's about 3,723 vacancies about $500 million we're short. our correctional oufr field rate got as high as 94%. it is currently 92%. so our goal is to fill every single position that we're funded for. i can't spend money we don't have. >> okay. i would like for you to look specifically at ashland fci. my concern about augmentation should be a concern.

when you take people away from being teachers to being guards or other services, then the teaching doesn't happen. and then we can see higher recidivism because we know that vocational schools and education correlate to recidivism. i hope we can get more slots and rely less on pulling teachers away that are so important and other people important. so thank you for indulging me. i yield back. >> thank you. the gentleman's time expired. my privilege to yield five minutes to the gentle lady to georgia. i thank her for her very powerful remarks this morning at the national prayer breakfast. the gentle lady is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you chairwoman lee. good afternoon. i thank you for being here today. you'll soon be leaving the bureau and we just want to thank you for your service.

during the subcommittee's last hearing, we reviewed the implementation of first step act. and at the bop. and the impact that covid has had on the bop operations. i looked into the policies addressing the care of pregnant women, especially with the national guidance for the health and safety of pregnant women. since that time, i was pleased to hear that the bop has taken action to better align its policies on about 5 of the 8 care topics that the gao found to be -- to not fully be aligned with the national guidance recommendations. i hope that bureau will continue to work to ensure that all eight of those care topics are met. so that the help and well-being of the facilities, is you no he, fully protected.

i do want to examine how they're handling the re-entry services. the re-entry of citizens into society is integral to any recidivism efforts in our communities and the financial health of the offenders. however, it is difficult to, i guess, actually to assess recidivism patterns unless you properly collecting data on it. for example, the last federal justice statistic publication of recidivism of federal offenders i was able to locate was published in june 2016. and the employment status was published last december. covers federal inmates released back in 2010. so further the latest bop publication on recidivism that i was able to find was from 2006. so director, what steps has the

bop to improve the data collection to effectively track the progress of unkars rated individuals as they transition from prison to re-entry centers or home confinement? and does the bop have plans to create standard metrics to evaluate recidivism so that the bop facilities can share best practices? >> yes. i appreciate your interest in this. this is very important to us. it's a very complicated process that gathering recidivism data. we work in conjunction with the state and other law enforcement entities. we're not sole owners of that data. my save are working with other components to set up a platform. we're committed to working on bettering that platform to get that data and to track it. >> sir, then once that is done or initiated and completed, could you just please -- i would love to have that.

if you would. >> yes. we can do that. >> thank you. also curious to know how many re-entry he could order naught naturors have in prison or per prisoner, how many vacancies are there for these jobs? you made mention of the number of vacancies that you have. but how many vacancies are for these jobs and what steps has the board of prisons taken to fill these positions? >> yes, congresswoman. we're committed to filling all our vacancies, as i stated earlier. we strive to do that. those are positions that we strive to fill as we do all of our positions and as i stated earlier we are filled every position we have funding for. and we're committed to continue to do that. i can get you the exact numbers. i'll get back with you on that. i don't have it in front of me.

>> wraely appreciate that effort. i would like to have that conversation. the i really appreciate that. while as has been stated by must colleagues before me, you know, we're very, very concerned about, you know, actually, you know, people say that criminals have rights and yes, they do have rights. just as victims have rights. and we just want to make sure that when those that are incarcerated have the ability to have fair treatment while they are incarcerated because at the end of the day, they're human beings too. thank you so much, madam chair. i yield back the balance of my time. >> the gentle lady yielded back. it is my privilege to yield five minutes to the gentleman, mr. fitzgerald. you're recognized for five

minutes. thank you. >> thank you, madam chair. my colleagues introduced several pieces of legislation that would eliminate bail. ineligible for grants under the burn assistant grant program. these reforms continue to be pushed in the wake of the tragic events where violent criminals are released either on bond or when they're involved in some of these terrible crimes of which some of must colleagues have been talking about this morning. in my only district which i represent modified their bail practices to eliminate or

deemphasize the use of monetary bail systems. coupled with i think some of my colleagues desire, you know, that has been going on for a year, discussions about defunding or dismantling the police departments or bail reform efforts. you know, it's troubling. it's making some of the communities less safe or sending the wrong signal or message to some of these individuals that ultimately commit these crimes. additionally the pretrial would provide grants to states if they eliminate their money bail system. and then things like the minnesota freedom fund of which, you know, even vice president harris was involved in for a period of time. so this fund and others that are similar have kind of contributed, i think, to this

overall concern. and then right in my backyard in the fifth congressional district in wisconsin, we had the national attention given to the christmas parade of murders that happened. darrell brooks was released after running over a woman with a vehicle. this is prior to the parade. then he was released on bail despite having a lengthy criminal hustry including a charge for aggravated battery and outstanding warrant in nevada. and then as you know, he subsequently drove his car through the christmas parade in wisconsin killing six individuals. one of whom was an 8-year-old boy. bail reform policy such as cashless bail have been supported by some of my colleagues. actually do more harm than help

in what i would consider the minority communities that benefitted from the reforms. director, i guess crimes that are considered felonies are being treated as civil infractions in controlling kind of the criminal and the justice system from the perspective of the benefit always goes to the criminal. what the fallout? you talked about this earlier. under the first step, the calls upon prisons to create rules around evidence based recidivism reduction programs and product you have activity. can you comment? ? there has to be a relationship

between those incarcerated and certainly the set of statutes at the state and federal level and how they affect that. what is the interaction during your period of time as director? >> congressman, i'm not sure you understand your question. we're committed to re-entry. we don't control who comes to our custody. that's on the front end of the justice system. the courts determine that. when they come in here, our mission is to keep everyone sauf and secure and ensure they have equal access to programming like i stated before, 95% of the people return to society. >> one more quick one. one of my experiences as state legislator as well as in in relationship that i've tried to develop with the federal system within the state of wisconsin, one of the things that is always linked is the literacy rate

compared to recidivism. we find if if an eighth grade level they're far less likely to recommit. is that something you looked into? is it something you monitor? >> yes, congressman. we have lots of literacy programs, high school equivalency, ged, and we encourage inmates that is part of the risk to need assessment when they come in. we assess them and we address their needs. we assign them programs to address needs. thats what the first step back is for. we were doing that all along. we had a risk assessment. we formalized it under the first step back. >> thank you. i yield back. >> i thank the gentleman for his questioning. now i'm pleased to yield to the gentle lady from missouri. you're recognized for five minutes.

>> thank you for convening this important hearing. i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record the experiences of 17 women across five federal facilities which have been royed by the national council of incarcerated and formerly incarcerated women and girls. >> without objection, so ordered. >> thank you. in these e-mails, women in federal custody detail horrifying accounts of not being allowed to get out of their beds all day because of covid lockdowns, being forced to eat expired food, having little to no access to medical services to treat cancers and other underlying conditions. having to pay $2 to file a sick complaint. this is all happening under your watch. these are complaints coming from not one or not two facilities, but five different facilities which makes clear that these issues are not isolated but

systemic. these women cannot hold you accountable bought we can. i would like to use this opportunity to ask you questions that they cannot directly ask you out of fear of retaliation. so yes or no, are you aware of these complaints across so many of your facilities? >> i'm not aware of the complaints but i'm ready in hearing from you and your staff so we can look into them. i find if that happening, it's unacceptable. >> thank you. thank you. our staff will be in touch. thank you for that. >> our complaints filed by people in bop custody being logged and am i able to access those logs? >> we absolutely keep a log of complaints. we take all allegations seriously. we have an office of internal affairs. we follow the process. we work with the office of inspector general. and other law enforcement agencies, certainly the fbi and investigation agencies, we take all of those complaints and

allegations seriously and we look into them. >> am i able to access the logs? >> if you'd like, i can have my staff reach out to you and see the information that you're interested in and we'll provide that to you. >> thank you. thank you. in the midst a raging pan demic that made incarcerated individuals vulnerable, rather than allowing them to serve sentences from their homes away from the abuse of the bop system, the federal prison population has grown. keeping them in prison. it is an act of cruelty. in april of last year, you told the senate judiciary committee that 50% to 75% of those incarcerated have been reviewed for home confinement and 24,000 out of over 150,000 people in federal custody have been placed in home confinement. as to have day, have all of those incarcerated been reviewed for home confinement now instead of the 50% to 75%?

>> we review haul of them. we placed 27,000 inmates. over 9,000 were specific under c.a.r.e.s. act placement. they would not be out in community custody at this point in incarceration. our population is actually reduced, congresswoman. >> we looked at the website. is the website inaccurate? >> i'm not certain which information you are referring to. of. >> we went to the federal bureau of prisons website. so two weeks ago i along with another representative, swent a letter seeking clarification from the bureau on the implementation of the office of legal council new guidance for those on home confinement under the cares act. we asked for a response. no later than february 7th of this year. can we get a commitment from you

that such a response is forthcoming? >> i'm aware of your letter. and we are certainly working on answering it. understand, please that there is a clearance process of which i do not control. we're committed to getting a response to your letter. >> thank you. i yield back. >> the gentle lady yields back. thank you. it's my pleasure to yield to the gentleman from iowa. >> mr. owens, you're recognized for five minutes. >> we'll then -- we'll then be happy to move to the gentleman from rhode island. we're pleased to yield five minutes. you're recognized now. >> thank you, madam chair. thank you director for being here. i too join the letter that the woman referenced and look forward to your response to

that. we held a hearing on january 21st to learn more about the response to the pandemic and specifically discussed compassionate release as a tool to reduce prison occupancy and keep people safe. i have a piece of legislation that would expand the availability during a public health emergency. given all the evidence we've seen about successful reintegration for release during covid-19, seems to me that makes sense to fully utilize this tool. so my first question is what is the bureau of prisons current policy for release of individuals at high risk of serious willness from covid-19? >> congressman, the process is sometimes confused with the home confinement which we use. of it's a quicker placement. the process is much more difficult. it was a timely process. each individual has to be reviewed and unique.

>> so director, my understanding is you don't use compassionate release or recommend it related to people who pose -- have serious risk of illness? you don't use that process at all? >> under the cares act, we review everyone for placement. but, yes, we do. there is a reduction in sentence motion. we do evaluate and assess it under our policy. >> do you use compassionate release for individuals and what is your current policy in terms of compassionate release of such individuals? that's not a hard question? >> if they submit a request, we follow our policy and statute and review it. if it's appropriate, we make the motion. if not, we deny it. >> okay. health care workers across the country are experiencing burnout. i presume that correctional

staff feels similarly, especially during outbreaks. given the statistics i've seen on overtime rates and considering the on going risk of covid-19 and staffing shortages and the expanded authority to release individuals to home confinement, why are they not utilizing strategies like this more fully to reduce the number of incarcerated individuals in it prisons? >> we are utilizing it. we make recommendations to the court. the court makes final decision, not the bop. if the motion is maud up under the act, they can do that after 30 days, we don't fay a position on the motion. we're not part of those agencies. it goes to the system. >> director, my colleague has questions about solitary confinement and the numbers she referenced i concurred with. the number increased 500% in

2020. 300,000 people in solitary confinement at any one time. the policy using restrictive housing for cdc recommended medical isolation caused unbelievable harm to incarcerated individuals. my question is what steps did the leadership take to ensure that it's following the appropriate guidance like the cdc guidance and not solitary confinement during this or any future public health? ? >> congressman, we follow the cdc guidance. in some cases we go above and beyond. i'd like to clarify though that medical use lags is oftenly confused. there are instances when inmates place in restrictive housing are isolated also medically isolated. and those cases it's appropriate. we don't place people from the general population who are in medical isolation dwoevenlt place them in restrictive

housing. there are different rules. is. >> director, december 2020, the u.s. special torture issued a statement related to use of solitary confinement in the prisons. the psychological and physical consequences of solitary confinement are well documented and range from aggressively to severe forms of anxiety, stress, and depression and suicidal tendencies. this deliberate infliction of severe mental pain or suffering may well amount to psychological torture. so my question is the bop aware of the mental and physical damage of solitary confinement? do you have policies in place to try to reduce the solitary confinement? will you furnish us with the supporting documents to reveal to us really the status of the

use of solitary confinement in your efforts to mitigate. i think you're on mute, mr. director. >> sorry. yes, congressman. that is a lot of information. we'll certainly get that to you. i will tell that you we're kmuted to continuing to appropriate reduce our use of restrictive housing. there is a reason for it. we do but we have policies in place. making the rounds. making sure they have access to programming. question get you that information and answer any questions you like regarding that. >> i appreciate that. the making surrounds not check in on somebody. they're experiencing psychological torture. is that sufficient? i appreciate that information. >> so the gentleman' time has expired. thank you. and my pleasure now to yield to the gentleman from california among many of our members on this committee.

and we yield to you for five minutes. you're now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. i appreciate you for holding this important hearing. director for your public service. how many covid-19 vaccines did the bureau of prisons administer? >> congressman, we administered to date officer 292,000 doses to both staff and unmates. 80% of our staff give or take, 80% are vaccinated. and about 70% of our inmate population. it's a moving target. there are always people coming in and out. every person is offered the opportunity to get vaccinated. >> did anyone die as a result of getting the vaccine? >> congressman, i do not know that. i have to get you information from a medical doctor. i'm not -- i don't have that information in front of me. >> sir, you would have been told if someone died after getting

covid-19 vaccine. >> i'm sure i would. >> i'm going to tell you you would have been told if it that in fact happened. >> did you see that they came out saying if you get a vaccine in a booster shot you are 97 times less likely to die. are you aware of that? >> yes. >> i want to agree with the former president who said that covid-19 vaccines are one of the greatest achievements of man kind. and i want to talk about the religious exemptions. i happen to be catholic. the pope was also called -- he has said getting covid-19 back seen is a moral obligation.

>> were the bureau of religions giving exemptions to those that are catholic? >> i don't review the exemptions. we have processes in place. i'm certain we can get that you information. we have ceased because of the injunction. >> if you can get me that information, that will be great. and now, i would like to enter two articles for the record. the first is from forest magazine, june 19, 2020. bureau of prisons special capital forces under scrutiny for use and d.c. protests and training mishaps. the second harl is story behind the unmarked federal agents from political and stated june 5th

2020. so i'd like to ask you, were bureau prisons, personnel used to crack down protesters? is it and were they in fact unmarked? >> we did assist. initially and i answered this. i was asked this during a press conference. initially within the first few days our staff were not properly marked, in essence for people on the civilian side to recognize them. they had local institutional logos. we corrected that within a couple of days. we marked them to show they were federal bureau prisons personnel. it was an oversight. we appropriatebly marked them. they have all been deplowed and

they are federal officers. >> for any future occurrences, they'll all be identified. i do understand that correctly? >> we corrected the issue before the end of that. and we have deployed them since. and they're all appropriately identified as federal bureau prisons officers. >> there are allegations that there was excessive use of force. some may have used tear gas and other actions that were not appropriate. so my question goes to training. these bureau prison folks, they're trained to deal with prison issues. the do they also get training on dealing with crowds who are exercising first amendment right through free speech? >> congressman, i know that some of those things were under current review. i don't think it is appropriate for me to comment on them. i can check back with my staff and see the status of that and answer your questions off line. i don't want to misspeak in this forum.

the matter is still under review. >> thank you. if you get me that information, that will prevent the attorney general from randomly deputizing the u.s. marshals and randomly deputizing prisoners. with that, i yield back. >> there goes my fingers again. thank you very much for your questioning. and it's certainly my privilege now to yield to another important distinguished member of this whole body. and that is mr. cohen of tennessee. you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chairman. thank you for holding this hearing. if i ask any questions that were

asked earlier, let me know. i've been at a hearing of the helsinki commission. we had the polish foreign minister. been very involved in it those issues. these are important issues as well. i want to make this hearing. pandemic highlight md of the failings for federal prison system. the bureau of pruz system unfortunately failed to protect those in the custody in the staff and address chronic understaffing. the bop has also lacked transparency and reforms such as the first step act. what lessons you have learned during your tenure and what advice do you have for your successor to address some of the issues that we've seen within the bureau of prisons? congressman? >> yes? >> i'm trying to unmute. if you're asking about the lessons learned from the pandemic, we followed cdc guidance from day onest we learned we need to protect the

most vulnerable, elderly. isolate the sick. the same lessons that the people in the world have known. strict movement, communicate better. those are some of the lessons learned. i think that we have gotten processes in place. we wooshg with the cdc. we invited them into our institutions. they have visited us. and our pandemic plan worked. n. collaboration with the cdc. >> well, let me ask you about the first step act. that is one of the few successes mr. trump had, that and the operation warp speed. that seems like it should have been pursued bigger and it wasn't. why was first step act in trying to get individuals that should be eligible for release, not operation warp speed for bureau of prisons? >> i'm not sure i know what you're referring to. we are fully compliant with the first step act. and we had implemented a risk

and needs assessment. we formalized it. we released inmates under the first step act. i'm not certain what you're referring to. >> was there lawsuit january that you needed to have certain report in on folks that would be eligible for release? maybe you got it done. i don't know. one point it wasn't done. >> we were awaiting the finalization of the rule. we submitted that draft rule under the last administration at the end of january 20 and it was final yuzed in january. we are statutory compliant with the first step act. >> that's good. excellent. >> they avoid the reincarceration of those released to home done funment. those releaseded to apply for kmutations of their sentences. in your view, was home confinement under the cares act successful? do you agree had that those released have proven their abuilt to assimilate back into their homes, families and

communities? >> we understand it's important to the cares act. we released 37,000 to home confinement, 9,000 of those under the cares act. 320 of those have reoffended and we follow the statute and rules. so we follow the laws that are um plemented and we continue to do so. >> the department of office of legal council published a memorandum from the bureau of prisons was no the required return those that home confinement. he wants the emergency period ended. but as the bureau of prisons are taking steps to the department of justice and knew interpretation of the law so that people that were on home confinement would be able to remain on home confinement and

apply for their commuting of sentences. >> we have not nailed down the how. when we do that, we'll make it -- we'll be as transparent as possible to make sure that everyone gets the information. we take the information and guidance of the attorney general. we'll continue to follow the laws. >> thank you, sir. let me ask you this. >> you were head of bureau of prisons when mr. epstein committed sue sued? >> no. >> you were there when michael cohen was arrested and put in solitary confinement when he tried to exercise his first amendment rights. >> yes. >> did you ask -- did you have anything to do with that? were you made aware of it, the desire to have him brought back into custody and put into solitary confinement? >> you was briefed on it afterwards because he's a high publicity case as any high publicity. i was not directly involved in

that decision. >> thank you. based on the last question. since mr. epstein committed suicide and security there was awful, have you seen to it that miss maxwell has better security? care or supervision to make sure she doesn't do anything to end her life? >> yes, congressman. i don't want to discuss specific security issues on any individual. he but we appropriately ensure that people in our care have the appropriate supervision and security. >> thank you, sir. thank you, madam chair. >> thank you very much. this has been an important hearing, insightful approach by members on both sides of the aisle. and so as we come to a conclusion, mr. bigs, as ranking member, do you have any additional points that you might

want to place on the record? >> thank you for being here. i look forward to the number of responses that you indicated to me that you and your staff would get to he m i look forward to seeing those. and madam chair, i'll yield back to you. >> i thank the gentleman very much. director, just one final point that comes out of the testimony. he an adjunct faculty. he was with us in our previous hearing. his investigation revealed disturbing lack of access to care when a new medical problem is encountered. we heard the questions, line of questions coming from several members. this process called sick call in most settings relies on the ability of incarcerated people to submit a written or electronic concern and then be

seen in a face-to-face encounter within a dau or two. the first bop facility that had the time to -- had the opportunity to visit as he inspected the metropolitan detention center, it baum apparent that people were reporting that the sick call requests including covid-19 symptoms were ignored but that the facility was actually destroying their original requests which violates basic correction as standards. as this is an accountability hearing and a recognition that there should be, if you will, accountability and the exercise pune tough measures, these are all dignity. men and women. can you comment on that kind of action? >> yes, i appreciate you allowing me to clarify. that first off, i'm aware of at report. he won't discuss that specific

incident. i will will reassure you that each of our institutions has an outpatient clinic. it is overseen by a bored state certificate feud physician and medical director. we have outside oversight. we have joint commission, aaahc and aca. we have received the same reviews that any outside clinic or nursing home would. our mortalities are reviewed. i'm not sure. i mean, we get oversight. we're going to do something about it. correct the issue. >> thank you, director. our staff will get to you to get answers in writing. that in particular at the detention center in brooklyn, new york. i want a direct response to that matter. i thank you for that. i'm also going to suggest that there is a board of health

oversight for the department of prisons. there is one specifically focused on helping the bureau going forward will be very helpful. let me finally submit to the record man died of covid in ft. worth prison. cases spike at woman's facility. as i conclude, let me say i'm not sure whether or not you'll appear before this committee or committee in the other body. but let me take this opportunity to show our appreciation from a person who has chosen as his career to serve the nation. and obviously coming into the bureau many, many years ago, you have continued to make a commitment to serve this nation. so it is my privilege to be able to say thank you for your service and should not go unnoticed. you served under many administrations, democratic and republican. you chose to commit yourself to

hopefully the lives and ultimate liberty of individuals that we hope will be restored and will will enter into society and never return again. want to make sure that we thank the hard-working without objection, all members will have five ledges will ittive days to submit additional questions for the witness for additional materials for the record. the hearing is now adjourned. i hope that was heard. thank you very much. >> thank you, congresswoman. >> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view what have is happening in washington live and on demand.

keep up with live streams and floor proceedings from the u.s. congress, white house events, the courts, gns, more from the world of politics, all at your fingerprints. also stay current with the current editions of washington journal and find scheduling for c-span networks and c-span radio, plus a variety of compelling podcasts. c-span now is available at google play and the apple store. c-span now, your view of washington, any time, anywhere. coming up next a decision on law enforcement initiatives and restorms with attorney general vanita gup too and charles ramsey former police chief. they spoke with mayors from around the country during the u.s. conference of mayors. >> with that, i will turn it over to vanita gupta to share some words of wisdom with us. so