well, hello, good evening. welcome to the virtual norwich bookstore event space and thank you for joining us tonight. my name is sam. i am as many of you have pointed out new here and thanks to all of you who have come by the store and said hello to me and introduce yourselves on it's great to meet so many of you and those of you who i've yet to meet i hope to soon tonight. i am delighted to be here with two folks who i admire quite a great deal, of course be great political cartoonist and author jeff danziger and the norwich book stores, very own karen pratt. i'm gonna get out of the way

real quick and let this show get on the road, but first a couple of announcements tonight, we are celebrating the release of lieutenant dangerous. jeff danzigures vietnam war memoir many years in the making i'm gonna be posting a link to purchase that book from the norwich bookstore and to purchase other books that we discussed during tonight's event those links will appear in the chat if you find yourself so moved we would deeply appreciate it if you shop local and purchase a book from us purchase a couple they make great gifts and you you can make those available for pickup at our store in norwich if you are here in the upper valley or if you're from further field, we do ship around the country around the continental united states. we're happy to take care of you. so please don't be shy that when you see in the chat. we'd love to shoot you a copy of lieutenant dangerous or a book of your choice. now the norwich bookstore is a local independent business. we love what we do and our

programming everything that we do in the store and outside of it is supported by your book purchase and we are grateful to you our upper valley reading community for keeping us going throughout this this long and tumultuous. here that was and throughout the going into the future. so thank you so much for all of your support. we are now open for browsing. we're open monday through friday nine to five and on saturdays nine to three. so we hope to see you in the store again soon whether you've visited us before or not. now tonight i am thrilled to help launch a book that we're very attached to locally and that has been as i think we'll talk about a little bit tonight sometime in the making and and sometime in the telling tonight. i am honored to welcome. jeff danziger to discuss his new

memoir lieutenant dangerous of vietnam war memoir. jeff danziger is of the most widely recognized political cartoonists of his generation. he's syndicated to the national post and by the washington post news service, and he's the recipient of the herblock prize and the thomas nast landau prize. he served in the us army from 1967 to 1971 that includes one year in vietnam in the first air cavalry the 11th acr and another units. he received the bronze star and the air metal during this time and it's this time that he discusses in lieutenant dangerous. he now splits his time between new york city and vermont and we're very glad to have him here and joining jeff danziger tonight is the norwich book stores very own aaron pratt many of you know, karen as one of the upper valley's literary taste makers many of you watching tonight probably rely on her for your next great read and her recommendations are known far

and right why but before she came here to vermont karen had a long and story career in washington dc. she spent 27 years with cbs news the last 20 of those as executive producer of face the nation. so as she says she's no stranger to asking good questions, please from wherever you joining me tonight. join me in welcoming jeff danziger and karen pratt. thank you. so jeff did you want to do to read a little bit from the book or do you want me to start your questions? let me start with a few questions as sam said this book had a long gestation period why do you think that was what did you need to get some distance or a lot of distance from the war? in order to write about it. a distance might be the wrong

word, but it's been 50 years since the end of the war. and i've turned into a different person, but i thought about it. every day something that doesn't go away. and as as time went on i skipped thinking about why did that happen? why did i do it? why did i well why did i do what i was told? i'm not i'm fairly obedient in person. but in this case going off. to join the army, which i had no use for. and in a war which i had no use for. and about a year ago. i was at in new york and i was talking to some students some very well educated young people and they said well it's an if you didn't like the war and you didn't like the army. why did you join? and i shocked i said i didn't

join i was drafted. and they didn't know. the mechanics of the of the draft which was terribly unfair and i started to explain it to them. and as i went on i thought god somebody should write this stuff down if these people have not had in their in their reading and their education or even in their their movie going and television watching. some sort of explanation of what happened. in vietnam, then i ought to try to at least. scribble down the outline something so that's why it took so long it probably. i mean, i hope that we're ready now. the the power right now of the of the pullout from afghanistan where we are leading after how many years have we been there

probably longer than they were in vietnam. where we're pulling out and just saying well, that's it. take care of it yourself folks. of that is exactly what happened in 1975. in the famous scenes of the helicopter leaving from the roof the latter. yeah. yeah hanging on to the hanging onto the skids. and here we are the same thing and we'll go, you know, we'll go on and on doing this. well, there's a great statement by i think it was. carrier or maybe was this the secretary of state? i can't remember saying well, we don't think kabul will fall. oh great. yeah. what what i'm curious about though is that the the book is so full of very specific detail. you know and as somebody who's memory can be a little sketchy myself i'm talking about right now. i was wanting did you take notes

when you were over there? how did you remember this stuff? i because i did and and i don't have a very good memory right now, but i but i do remember that and some parts of it. i had written down. i tried to get all those details in as a as an a novel in 1992, so i did have some plus plus i've talked to a great many people who who veterans who have the same feeling that? the national forgetfulness we've got nobody knows anything about the korean war. nobody's anything about vietnam. they probably don't know very much about all the wars in between. or how we got into them and they and they don't seem to thought that they don't care. i mean i understand people are busy. but they it should be reminded so that we don't do.

what we're doing in afghanistan, which is making the same mistake again. afghanistan is 9,000 us troop skills so far. vietnam was 58,000 us troopscale, which people forget. which you know, i you know, they forget that when i remember when the towers went down and they were talking about this great loss of life. and you look at vietnam and it was much so much more. i mean, i'm not saying, you know, every life is valued and so on and so forth. that's not what i'm saying. but but the the level of how this was so much worse than anything that had happened, you know. is is ridiculous? but you didn't you didn't take have a diary when you were there. no, it was literally. all in in my head well, i'm also let's go back to when you said you think of vietnam every day.

how does that mean? i don't mean to sound like shrink, but how does that manifest itself? does it just come into your mind or does something remind you of i guess some people were terribly affected by it. for some reason. i can't. can't explain it in terms of psychology or it i came home and i when i came back from vietnam on the plane. i landed that we landed at travis air base in san francisco. and the next thing i thought i have to get a job. the next day i was i was out of the army then the next day after coming home from the warsaw. and i came back to vermont and i didn't have a job. and we needed money. we didn't have we we had saved some during the during the war, but but not very much and we had an old house on the hill in vermont. yeah, and i fortunately got a job teaching school, but there was no provision made for to you

know to provide some additional money so you could get started again. it was just that there was no help in terms if he's getting a job or they just dropped you like we're just friends, you know. oh, no, no not not on the part of the government people were so sick in the -- thing that they they didn't want to they didn't want to think about it. well, you know there is. an expression. yeah, i mean, i think what you're saying is that nobody really they just wanted to put it out of their minds that they didn't really want to come to terms so that they didn't want to understand what happened and how the us failed. um, but you know, i'm sure you know the expression the germans deal with it in terms of dealing with the nazi past and it's called fragangian heights pavilting and it means dealing with the past and they the germans after you know, back in i guess it started in the seven

now, maybe 60s started to you know, re-educate the the public about what really happened during world war two. so in order to make terms within come to terms with and understand what happened. who knows if it was successful at all, but it seems as if in the united states no one ever did that at all. no, we have never had the south african equivalent. which was the where they tried to rationalize and have people come forward and admit that they had been racist and that they had been cops and beat up people and so on so they're they're we don't do that. i don't know why i guess we just want to move on. also. i think that the government in general wanted to wanted to wanted to move on to something else and there were at the time other things to move on to there were other disasters. fortunately able to move in. but the effect on people coming

back from vietnam like yourself where it was it's as if it never happened. i think it's fair to say. we felt like fools. i mean that felt like but you had no choice you i mean in terms of draft being drafted and most of them were drafted you had they had no choice. how can you feel like a fool if it wasn't yours. it was not your volition. generally, that's right. but a lot of people went to canada a lot of people went to sweden. some people were saying you could have done that. yes, and there were deferments available. you could i was i was touched by i was invested by the fact that the young people i was talking to didn't know what the rules of the draft were and they were they were terribly unfair if you were in college you didn't have to go in the draft if you were even in graduate school. you didn't have to go for a while if you were married. you didn't have to go and then if you were married and had a baby didn't if you work for a

defense contractor, you didn't have to go if you had important. work that you were doing for example oddly enough if you're a farmer you didn't have to go. i didn't know that and if you were homosexual you didn't have to do. i unfortunately was not as not a homosexual i could have gotten out of the whole thing. yeah, sometimes when i think about actually but i'm gonna make it jeff i never knew right? but and i i also wonder what what is your view of the draft now? i've never asked you that i've known you for many years. i've never asked you. there really isn't a draft. there's a draft registration. no, i know there isn't a draft should you yes, what for the end of the and toward the end of the book. i asked the question if you were. given to people who are reading if you were given. the a notice that you had to leave your life. your wife your family and even

maybe your children leave your career. they the bank came and took my truck away that i had just bought a new. yeah, so and the money was lost any equity that i had the thing was lost. nobody cared would you do it and then if they said you well now you're in the army and now you have to march and push-ups and what would you do and that's a -- good question the army i actually like like that part of the book very much. it's at the very end and because it makes the reader work a little bit, you know and put yourself in in your position. you witnessed some pretty horrific. things events situations do those come back to you. do you have nightmares and yeah, yes. they do. i mean it's not. i don't wake up screaming.

i'm not the manchurian candidate or anything, but but you you do get to see. first of all, you get to see the effects of explosions and and the technology of killing other people you don't you don't forget about that and you know. as i say in their wars kind of interesting if you've been avoid getting killed and you don't mind loud noises, but it's it's the lesson that's learned is that you really can't? make people do anything by threatening them with guns and exposives. they won't do it. they might look like they're going to do it, but they don't we draw our example of the ho chi min of the nut the amount of bombs dropped. i believe this is the case the amount of bombs dropped on the ho chi minhan trail. er is equivalent to the amount dropped during the whole of world war two. is that right? all of world war two by both sides that's inconceivable it is

and not only that but they ran out of bonds. there are air force ran out of i the tendency in here to blame the air force for everything because they can tell politicians look we can we don't have to see dead bodies us bodies coming back. we'll just drop bombs and you know, they'll be so scary that people will do what they're told. well, they don't do what they're told they didn't do in london during the blitz, which must have been completely horrific. they just won't do it. and you know the armies this is sounds good. but armies have two jobs killed people and blow things up. well, we were trying to make. of policy stick we were trying to win arts and minds as well as john when the johnson said it's rather. possible terribly funny but it is yes in a way. and they won't do it and they don't do it didn't do it in

afghanistan. and they didn't do it in all sorts of other countries where we had sent in troops. iraq was of course a cataclysmic failure. we never learn what you're saying. that's the really that point yeah, just don't worry. we're do you remember much vietnamese? you should read that piece that part at the book. about the difficulty the vietnamese language what well i was talking about the french and the learning. and it might be might be good to explain the title of the book. yes, i was not dangerous in lieutenant dangerous. i was not a dangerous soldier. it's not in the way. i was supposed to be when i what? when i was drafted you were in for two years and the second year was the infantry. i didn't want to be in the infantry some little interior

voice. so i signed up for a language school, which was a year long, and i told myself that. it'll be over in a year. halfway through the language school of this. 47 week course in el paso, texas, i thought i was right because lyndon johnson decided not to run again for office and he was going to have the palace be smart. and it was going to be all over. but the language school to determine whether you were any good at it they gave you an aptitude test and i'm good at languages. i'm good at romance languages, but as i say and here vietnamese is not a romance language. it is not a slavic language. it is an uneven combination. chinese vocabulary and a phonetic alphabet invented by the french while they were enslaving the locals during their incredibly cool colonization of the country.

most difficult aspects for normally thick american is that vietnamese is tonal like chinese it goes up and down? the vietnamese phonetic alphabet was devised by french missionary alexander derose may he find in his own fat? to get the pronunciation, right? he added seven vowels. six homes, plus two letter ds and a number of other oddities that had no counterparts in romance language in addition over the centuries three distinct accents had developed one in north vietnam flipped and precise one for the middle part of the country not as clipped and one for the south slurred and imprecise and further addition yet when he's themselves thought it was amusing to add their own personal accents. i add all this language about language. the blackouts of conclusion that for americans who were smart enough to pass the test meaning smarter than most but not much.

learning vietnamese was a slow process to learn enough of this melodic tongue to be able to figure out what intercepted enemy messages meant was difficult close to impossible. in addition here's this goes over and over. in addition the army screwed this up as well. we were taught the southern dialect which is somewhat lazy and sing song. in the south the soft d is pronounced as a y in english in the middle part of vietnam. it's pronounced as a j in the north of this pronounced as a hard z as a zip and we were learning the southern dialect but by that time the enemy wasn't southern dialect. it was the northerners who had the northern dialect and it was maybe it was easy for people who lived there to understand the difference between the two dialects, but because it wasn't helped it wasn't helped if you were on the radio trying to figure out what was going on.

is it fair to say that not a lot of information was gained from from americans who had rudimentary if any knowledge of vietnamese was gonna sound north or south south but say no information was game. first of all, you're on the radio and second of all this if you're trying to figure out what's going on during attacks and actions or you're riding along in the helicopter. you can't understand anything. well, you know that when you talk about the helicopter, i was thinking, you know, the the, you know, iconic sound of a helicopter in all those movies about vietnam and about how stupid a weapon it was you talk about that. about general westmoreland, this was the first war i think other than korea.

career, the helicopter was used to medevac wounded troops and that was considered pretty good. but there weren't there were any guns on the helicopters in korea? we had thousands of helicopters. then we tried to shoot at people from the air. when the russians supplied the north vietnamese with heat-seeking missiles round to air missiles the ground to air missile would go up and it would see the exhaust of the helicopter and fly into the exhaust of the turbine. and with great accuracy i might and after a while. the helicopter pilots just said we're not going to do this anymore. this is ridiculous. so they really stood down. i mean do you think that was that widespread? it was not widespread, but during the last operation that i had anything to do with which was a an operation up in the northern part of south vietnam

they pretty much didn't want to do it and they were supposed to be flying in. south vietnamese troops to do operations against the ho chi minh trail. the south vietnamese troops didn't want to go they didn't want to get out of a helicopter when they landed on a mountaintop. and i think i point out is pretty hard to get people to. get off your helicopter if they don't want to and they all have guns. exactly the ho chi minh trail. was genius really? yeah, in some parts. it was a it was a mile wide. and everything i didn't know that either you have that in the book. i did not know that. i mean the ho chi min trail you think of is, you know first but tunnels and bicycles and things like that but a mile wide is that's not a trail.

that's a highway and very well it was in the mountains so you couldn't exactly see it and if you i mean the other thing that the air force neglected ever to mention was that every bond crater. is a place to hide from the next bonds? and they had well, there are pictures available. of the thousands of bond creators in that area which some was in north korea a south vietnam, but a lot in cambodia. but you how i i am actually ignorant of the size of this bomb craters. i mean, how would how would you generalize the size of a average bomb crater? i guess i mean, i know there are different sized bombs and so forth, but most of the bombs were 500 pounds when they made they made a good size crater, which probably the hole itself was somewhere about 20 yards 30

yards across that's a big hole and if you and it threw a lot of dirt up in the air and that it quite quickly filled up full of water. so it was a good it was a good place to hide. and they were all over the place. yeah. um when going back to the the writing of this book did you have to do research to to remember the history? not not your experiences? i can understand how they might be more, you know in sort of engraved in in your head. but but the your command of the history at the time is is quite good. well, i've read a number of books about the history i've read night recommend another book the best nonfiction book of the war is you know shands book of white shining why and that that i did use that and i also

had read some other tim o'brien's book, which is the best fiction written about the war. both his book the things that he carried karen. yeah, and also a second book that he wrote about the war about me alive. the tim o'brien was in the americanound division, which was the division. that the milan master was part of and that book is called in the lake of the woods lake of the woods is great. oh really? good novel you it's gripping. it's right. yeah. it's about the guy who comes back after having either participated or witness it in me. like i can't remember which and and his and he runs for office. he's about to run a check his record more carefully. yeah. yeah, i i was a great book. yeah, i agree.

yeah did did were you aware when you were over there? and i know you weren't over there for that long, but were you aware of what was going on in the united states in terms of the anti-war activities and so on and so forth. yes, i was i was how did you get that information? well when i was drafted there were several people who came to. to tell me how i would how i could get out of the draft what i could do whether i could shoot myself in the foot or become a conscientious objector or whatever, okay. so i knew i knew about it plus. it was on television. the whole war was on was on. over there available to you. no not oh i see when i was. yeah, i'm asking about i understand why you would understand didn't know. yeah. we didn't know that the radio

station afvn was the army television station and they they mentioned it and stars and stripes carry different stories by 1970 a pretense resolver that people support that we were going to win you mean or that or that there was support. i'm curious. you know, we all know how divided the country is now and i lived through vietnam and my my father was a republican and actually had wanted to go to vietnam. he was a world war two vet and wanted to go to vietnam but was too old and you know, really supported what they were doing over there and it caused incredible tension in our family and that was just a microcosm of what was going on in the country and i am wondering what you think about in terms of how divided the country is now as

opposed to how divided it was then, you know because people say, oh now they say the country's never been more divided. i'm not so sure. that's true. i mean, obviously there's the civil war, but i'm neither one of us experienced that i don't think did you know, so that's right. you need it. so what would you what do you think about that? think think the difference was the draft. when you were sending people who didn't want to go. over to a war zone to fight a war. they and their families and everybody else would object and it did so strenuously and the war and the draft was so i'm unfair and so crazy. and people got out of it for got out of the goal for the damnedest things. we knew that the people who were being sent over as infant for troops slogging through the rice paddies up into the mountains.

they really had lost a war with their own efforts to stay out of it. now you don't you don't. have a draft you have the army which is full of. a volunteers and you can really tell how differences by looking at some of the advertising that the army now does to try to get people to join up. it is it's like war movies people jumping out of helicopters having one shooting guns saluting saving people saving. yes savings saving people need whereas once these people get in if they don't like the army they just they just get out. that's it. right, but in but in terms of the society of our society and how divided it is then do you think it is? i have two questions. do you think it's more divided now, or is that too just too hard to figure and the second

question and i've just ruined my number two rule for being an interviewer which is to ask two questions at time. you never should do that. the first questions is is it as divided as it was then and well, and if you can answer that one first and i will i i really i don't know. i don't know how to even even count up the ways except the fact that we don't much care about what happens in the middle east. we don't i don't think we feel as much of an affinity for for the afghans and in addition to which we have plenty of history to show you the afghans beat the through the russians out through the british and how we thought we were going to do anything over. if and i don't know maybe it's just that people have just gotten used to our government in our military. doing things which are if not

stupid are indefensible. and there is also the suspicion that there wasn't really in vietnam that there was a great deal of money being made in. when i don't i'm excuse me that great deal of money is being made. in the wars in the middle east in by contractors by gun yes and factors etc. plus we thought that who have an interesting keeping a conflict going is what you're saying. yes. the fact is we didn't know i know later on that the largest contractor in south vietnam during the war was a company called rmk. it was partially owned by lady bird johnson. who was lyndon johnson's wife? excuse me. what? presidents yeah wife owns part of the company that's building roads and bridges. yeah. do you think it's possible to have an equitable draft to have

a while the alternative is that? a draft where everybody has to serve and do something. some countries notably. is remembered as a what? yeah, it's really. yeah, well yeah these countries will have some sort of national service that might be a good idea i don't know what they would do will you know it's been brought up a number of times as i recall. it was charlie rangel and in new york who is a big draft. that's right. we wanted to reinstate the draft and never got anywhere. never got anywhere. i don't think the army wanted it. i mean here you had an army that was made up of people who wanted to be there possibly would be a good time to read a short quick. sure. yes, absolutely. i was trying to talk about the

mood that was in the army at the time at least as i remembered. it might have different someplace else, but all of the america national diseases race in quality religion seasonal hatreds and generational suspicions were gaining script below the surface. stateside the fault lines were made flagrantly visible by the press some accurately others blown out of all proportion. i became aware that in general. i dislike everyone who outranked me and felt pity for anybody iraq, right? which was almost known. the enlisted men hated the commissioned officers the draftees hated the enlistees the junior officers hated majors and above lifers hated the civilian contractors the army hated the air force as fly boys and pansies the air force hated the army right back as slobs and killers the infantry hated the rear restaurant -- soldiers from

rural america hated -- from new york and ally the -- has hated themselves for being lumped in with ubers. draftees hated those who escaped the draft and escapees hated anyone who reminded them of their cowardly. good luck and of course blacks and whites and civilian life, even who could get along ate at each other. i suppose some protestants. it is in catholics when somebody had to hate the -- in general everyone in the army hated the army unless by the end of the sixties and into the 70s. the only came slowly to realize but the real damage was being done not to the enemy, but the army itself by itself. discipline not only went to hell but in some units disappeared. promotions, especially to command positions carried such personal danger that they were not sought after as they should have been a sort of command avoidance occurred. so that the best commanders did not always rise and rank some didn't want to. it became apparent that the

age-old guiding principle of all military effort was not only distance. it was probably impossible. this principle was and is and i guess should be. victory and good morale where there was any is not lauded. it was suspect. well, that's pretty good line. what it in terms of the class? situation. i was really struck and i'm gonna read from you book now a little bit. i was really struck by this point. um, william f buckley pointed out that during the operative years of the war 65 to 75 the ivy league university's graduated in excess of 20,000 men of whom 11 were killed. in vietnam i mean that is actually a a shocking. statistic to me i mean because here you have in world war two.

everybody wanted to to join up right and in vietnam, everybody did their to to not go. and there was really no effort to. get people to want to do what what the government wanted them to do, which must have given them some clue that it wasn't. the right thing to do. well the work. yeah, it wasn't working a lot of so many of the stories you tell about the incompetence and the absurdity of the military procedures and actions which are really hard to believe in terms of counting the bodies and so on and so forth and any number of things that stories that you tell you ever think you were living in crazy land? it was just no in fact the lunus story was about the polaroid cameras when they would report

when they would have an action against the enemy of firefight. they would have to report how many americans soldiers had been killed and then they would report how many north vietnamese soldiers have been killed and like so they always tried to say well we had five guys killed, but they had 15. there was no way to hide how many americans have been killed, but they would boost the number for the enemy. and so the press finally said well your line. and that about that time polaroid. came out with this handy little camera. that would take a picture instant and come out the front. and they issued these to infantry platoon leaders so that they shot somebody they wanted to report how many were killed. they'd have to have a picture. except of course that there was no shortage of film and you could take two or three pictures.

and then when you got back to the base the officers club and said well. all trade you this one and it was it was an insane thing, but you could get more more different pictures of the dead north vietnamese the dead enemy soldiers and then claim the additional. additional kills the wonders of camera technology, i guess. that's my god. tell me about your novel, which i read years ago and where the name of it, which is as good as the novel i think. came from this kernel stood up and it was a lecturing the press and richard to tell them what the what the oh, yeah, the title of the book is rising like the tucson. and he stood up and he said that lectured the press and said they shouldn't say that it was. war was going badly because with

american money and american advisors vietnam would rise like a tucson from its ashes. yeah the right state, but he had the wrong bird. we're on city too. what was that novel about was that? it was essentially about a young. oh, let me add. let me add it it is available and if you want to get it, all you have to do is call the norwich bookstore. yes, go on. sorry jeff. the it was about a essentially about a friend of my father had a was in the south pacific after the war and he went into business in the philippines. and so the character in the book says well the same thing can happen if you go around you buy. real estate now and saigon. the united states is not going to leave and they're not going to lose and that real estate's going to go up in value and so he is in connecticut, but he

tries to get his son to go into the real estate business in saigon in the middle of the war. and of course sun doesn't want to do that. he just wants to get get home and his son is kind of clueless ineffectual officer by mistake and so that's essentially what the book is you told me it was optioned? it was optioned by some movie companies, which i won't mention here for a father and son team. and they opted it for about eight years and then they both got too old so they stopped option. also, i think it's true to say that nobody was. nobody wanted to go to see any more movies. about vietnam after the deer hunter and apocalypse now and hamburger hill you just you walked out of the movie. wondering, you know feeling bad

that you're not supposed. did you win of those movies and they're there a few more full? no. camera in the name of that one with bert lancaster in it. anyhow that number of vietnam movies did any of them strike you as realistic? i mean apocalypse now is just so over the top that it's no, and i think deer hunter was also a deer hunter actually was damaging to veterans because if you watch that movie you came away from the idea that they're all crazy. for have been driven crazy and or you know played guns with russia played russian lead with with guns. that was right. and although the actors did a good job. i thought that producer director michael cimino should have been punished for that. but have any have any lived up to reality? wow. i don't know war movies in

reality. it's it's hard to say nobody right the wars usually boring and then there's a very exciting period would have noises you. i'm curious if after writing this. you felt some sort of relief. i did. did you stop reading did you stop thinking about it every day? no. still thinking about you know, you begin to you begin to wonder what it is about your country and your countrymen. then you see. doing the same thing in afghanistan or you see them? going crazy and attacking the capitol building. and the insurrectionists and voting for people who are clearly draft, not just draft dodgers but liars about being about. i'm talking about. everybody who is now in most of

the positions of power in the government now have been voted in despite the fact that they never served never had any service we mentioned charlie randall used to say well why isn't anybody who was in the in the government from -- cheney and george bush on down? all how come they've never served if they keep getting getting voted in. there must be at some. off american characteristic. we just don't we don't care very much about veterans and and you don't think that had that has changed someone i mean because there was a lot of pushback in terms of how veterans many veterans were treated so badly after the vietnam war that i thought. that people like senator mccain and had had not fixed that but had been ameliorated somewhat but then of course you have trump coming on and making fun

of senator mccain for being a loser. so what you know, i i thought i thought john mccain should have said a little bit more about that, but but he didn't and either he didn't want to play on the fire on his own military service as a reason why you vote for which might have might have been. very good, but it was not just military service. he was a he was a seven years, right? but even even that i think he decided that he wouldn't do that. i don't know what he decided, but he wouldn't do that because it just wouldn't wouldn't be attractive. to what was it? you mean he was you think he said did that politically? yeah, he was afraid it was not going to be attractive politically. well, and he turns out he was right and what people voted for was this over stuffed loudmouth and essentially trump who didn't not only didn't water to deserve

in the war of his time but lied about it couldn't remember which foot had the bone spurs. just makes it right and is still in a voting population of this country still has a great deal of support. right we've talked about some pretty grim things, but i also want to say that i thought this book. was like you very funny. in parts, i mean some parts of it were grim for sure, but they were also some very funny parts. i mean there are things in war that happened that are funny. okay. and it was curious when i came back the movie mash. that just came back just came out in the summit. i did that came out in the 70. so 70 no came out and it's 69 or 68 69. i saw it when i was. but the but that that was korea. that's right. right, right, but it wasn't just

career. it was actually wasn't vietnam that they were talking about. the yeah, it was marvelous. comedy. yes. it was a black background. yes, exactly and and your book has illustrations. not not surprised illustrations. yes. there are some little sketches now. i think that sam has some questions from from the peanut gallery as it were. indeed i do we've been collecting them while listening to the two of you and i have to say, you know, one of my favorite things about hosting these events is we often get to have authors and interviewers who know each other have some history together and that's very clear listening to the two of you and it's been a it's been a pleasure to sit back here and be a fly on the wall. so thank you to both of you jeff gary in the chad had a question

about whether you may use of the gi bill when you came home and if that was available to you. again yeah, i got a it's just a master's degree. i got a master's degree from university of vermont. and yeah, so that's good. a lot of the a lot of the benefits that have been enacted to get people to to enlist now or to volunteer now weren't available for quite a while and not only that but you know the gerald ford forgave everyone who had either ducked the draft or lied or on the sweden. and so as i said, we we just felt like -- fools in the

question and answer box over here liza asks, where did the title lieutenant dangerous and your moniker come from? i think we alluded to that we didn't we didn't find exactly i didn't do that. thank for asking that question. when i was over there as a sleep as a link as a translator and did almost no no translation. they really didn't know what to do with me and they gave me a group of south vietnamese translators south vietnamese who spoke english and they had a very difficult time with my last name danziger and they would come out with don juan or danjevue. and finally they decided on dangerous as a word that they that the new. of so, that's i became it was an uncomfortable joke for a while lieutenant dangerous. and any of you watching tonight if you have questions, you can drop them into the chat or into the q&a module at the bottom of

your screen. you can click on that type in your question and i will see it and we've got a few more minutes to ask questions. so if you've got one feel free to ask jeff asks again, you alluded to this a little bit but jeff in the shot wants to know if you could share any of your humorous or mash like experiences from your time. maybe there's a story in the book. say it again, please. i'm sorry. i do. are there any humorous mash-like experiences that you could share? either i don't know. i i mean, i hope you're funny, but i don't know if they were. appeal to anybody else when you came home. this is what when you came home from the wars on the army? yeah, and the army just has a tendency because of these ideas come from people who are kind of on the clumsy side. you would get a traditional american meal your first meal back. so the plane came into travis

air force base in. san francisco and everybody took off to have a good time in san francisco and i my wife was in denver and i didn't know what to do with myself and i wandered over to the air force mess and the air force has four meals a day. they're midnight mess. and i wanted into this mess hall and the sky from the kitchen sticks his head out and there was nobody there. i had the whole mess all to myself. let me sticks his head out and he said you want your meal? i said yeah. and he said, okay take a tray. so i took a tray and i sat there. by myself eating this piece of leatherish steak and bunch of french fries strawberry

shortcake with cool whip on it and that was welcome home. this indeed a true american meal or other instances. we we had i all also did to work with pows over there and because it was a civil war people on other side could could. give up. and then a lot of them gave up when they were sick. so this one fellow came in he was a and he had been an artillery warrant officer for the north vietnamese and my the colonel said we'll keep him here and we'll see if we can get any information out of them. and then we had to turn them back over to the south vietnamese army and i supposed to go down. and and and getting bringing back, so we drafted some letters and we got in jeep me into

other. yeah and enlisted people and we drove down to saigon about about 40 miles. and tried to get them out when we went to the embassy which the same building where the the helicopter took off the roof. and it was sunday and the state department. didn't work on sunday, so nobody was there. the place was all locked up. we finally got in and american colonel who had been writing something came down and you know, say what did you want? we told them. and he said well we can't do anything today. and i said okay fine. we'll go back. we need some gasoline. and in the compound there there were four or five gas pumps. and there were guarded by this filipino guy who had a gun. but he wouldn't give us any gas because it was state department gas. so i took out my 45, which i couldn't hit the inside of a building. and so you have to give us some gas.

or i'll shoot you. he wasn't by the way the enemy he was just a pirate. you wouldn't do it. we had to siphon gas out of some other cars to get. put in our jeep to take home. and for the other two enlisted guys, who were with me i'm all i could think it was jesus they must must really be in inwardly laughing at what clowns we were me and the colonel and the guy with the with the gun ever. just and plus it was american gastric. and one more question in the in the q&a from gary who wants to know where were you stationed when you were in vietnam? at first i was stationed up near the cambodian border in a town called fuk vin which is now a golf course for japanese businessmen. and then i was stationed in swanlok which is down toward the coast which was a very friendly

america to town to the americans. it was absolutely by the north vietnamese. and then toward the end there was a an operation to go north and to where the operation against the ho chi minh trail was taking place as we were supposedly leaving. and i had about five. translators who went with me and halfway up the country in helicopters. they deserted they just said that's it. we're not going any for them. i went on by myself. clearly quite a story and one that i think a lot of readers are going to enjoy, but i hope also learn something from and the the book.

once again is lieutenant dangerous a vietnam war memorial. it is the new book the new memoir from jeff danziger jeff. thank you so much for joining us and for sharing some of your your memories your experiences your stories. and thank you karen pratt for your wonderful interview as well. yes. and as a reminder, you can purchase lieutenant dangerous from the norwich bookstore. we ship all over the country or if you're here locally. you can pick up a copy in our store. we've got copies on the shelves now, we'd love to see you or put a book out on the porch for you for contactless porch pickup if you prefer and no matter what we hope that you support our wonderful local author, jeff danziger and thank you for supporting a local business as well. we're grateful for it. once again, jeff dancer. yeah. up the book. oh, okay. holding up his copy of lieutenant dangerous a vietnam

war memoir which by the way is published by a local press steerforth, press just across the river in hanover, and we're we thank them for for putting out great important books. once again, the book is lieutenant dangerous a vietnam war memoir. thank you. jeff danziger. thank you karen pratt, and thanks to all of you watching do good work. be safe read good books, and we will see you soon. have a great night.

good evening, but as much as and thank you for tuning in on behalf of all of us at the locally based independently owned bookstore books and books in miami, florida and in partnership with miami book fair. it's my pleasure to welcome you to a virtual evening with tanya hester and jeanette ruiz to discuss wallet activism use every dollar you spend earn and save as a force of change published by our friends at ben bella books. tanya hester is the author of wallet activism and work optional retire early the non-penny pinching way after spending most of her career as a consultant to democratic politics and progressive issue campaigns, and before that as a