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america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. now a hearing on new advancements on wireless technology and the continued rollout of 5g. this is on communications and technology. [inaudible conversations]

good morning, everyone. to give our digital good morning, everybody. [inaudible] the subcommittee on communications and technology will come to order. the committee on communications and technology is holding a hearing entitled 5g and beyond, exploring the next wireless frontier. through the covid-19 public health emergency members can't participate in today's hearing either in person or remotely online video conferencing. in accordance with the updated guidance by the attending

physicians, member staff and members of the press present in the hearing room are not required to wear a mask although you can do so if you want. for the members participating remotely, your microphones will be set on mute for the purpose of eliminating inadvertent background noise. members participating remotely will need to unmute your microphone each time you wish to speak. please note once you unmute your microphone, anything that is said will be heard over the loudspeakers in the committee room and subject to be heard by the lifestream and c-span. since members are participating in different locations at the hearing, all recognition of members such as questions will be in the order of subcommittees and you're ready. the documents for the record can be sent at the e-mail address that we've provided to the staff. all documents will be entered into the record at the conclusion of the hearing.

if someone doesn't have themselves muted, please mute your microphone until you are recognized. the chair recognizes himself for five minutes for an opening statement. welcome and thank you all for being here today. a special welcome to the witnesses and i thank them for the contributions of the discussion. i'm glad to be holding the hearing on such an important issue as the subcommittee with jurisdiction over spectrum and federal and commercial spectrum management, i am heartened that the communications and technology subcommittee has shown such bipartisan leadership and interest on this issue. spectrum policy is not an issue on the top of the average consumer's mind but it plays a significant role in their everyday lives. the average u.s. household has 25 connected devices, smart phone penetration is above 80%, and wireless device subscriptions outnumber the u.s.

population. we use baby monitors and garage door openers, listen to the radio and watch tv using our mobile devices and our factories, farms and transportation systems are ever more connected, and many of them wirelessly. although users are dependent on spectrum and the american economy is dependent on spectrum. as we push toward 100% broadband connectivity at home, spectrum will be necessary for customers regardless of whether they have a wired or fixed wireless connection. so, it is our job as members of the subcommittee to make sure the spectrum policy continues to enable the uses and so it's our job as members of this sub committee to make sure spectrum policy continues to enable these uses and opens new opportunities for the next generation technologies and innovations. fundamentally we need to use our nation's airways as efficiently as possible. with an eye on the expediential

growth of wireless data usage we know more spectrum will need to be available for consumer use. this means the federal government that still holds a majority of this country's spectrum needs to use it more efficiently, and recognizing it as a viable opportunity and work with spectrum users. for congress we should recognize the spectrum demands of the federal government and give agencies the tools they need in this process. with our commercial spectrum we must achieve a balance of licensed and unlicensed spectrum. it's important to make spectrum available to sustain the deployment of 5g and to pave the way for 6g. we need to sustain the explosive traffic we have seen in wi-fi and fuel the next generation of

wi-fi, wi-fi 7. i think the band presents an enormous opportunity to make the spectrum available. the spectrum innovation act strikes the right balance between federal and incumbent user needs and maximizing spectrum for consumer use. with additional spectrum reallocated to the private sector, new opportunities will arise for additional uses in both licensed and unlicensed spectrum bands. i want to take a moment to thank ranking member latta and his staff for the work they are doing with my team to find a bipartisan path forward for this bill. i am looking forward to moving it with their support. another item that needs swift action by congress is the extension of the fcc's ability to conduct spectrum options. in addition to how spectrum is used we also must look at how

the spectrum automation decisions are made, and congress is taking steps such as with the spectrum coordination act and ntia and the fcc are acting as well as their announcement on increased cooperation demonstrates, so with ranking member latta, i recently laid out principles that should help guide us. ntia must continue to be recognized throughout the federal government as the entity tasked with balancing the needs and concerns of the federal government. clear rules and expectations for all spectrum users will lead to better outcomes. these roles and processes should be based on science and engineering and lastly the federal government needs to speak with a clear unified voice when making spectrum decisions. recommitting ourselves to these principles will lead to better management policies and ultimately better outcomes for

both the federal and nonfederal users of spectrum. while these are weighty topics, it will affect how you are economy can function and grow. i look forward to hearing the witnesses' expert testimony and the thoughts and concerns of my colleagues. thank you to our panelist. i am now yielding to my friend, ranking member latta, for his opening statement. >> thank you, mr. chairman and friend. thank you for holding today's hearing and for our witnesses being here today. it's great to look out and see your smiling faces. it's wonderful to be all in the same room together. and we are pioneering one of the ways to manage access to the airways. decisions on how best to manage the airways has led to the growth of wi-fi and multiple

generations of mobile technology from 2g to 5g. a recent report estimates that unlicensed spectrum generates over $95 billion per year in the connective market. when wi-fi was first invited nobody predicted the impact it could have on the economy. in the 1990s congress provided the fcc to auction off licenses to use a portion of the airways and since then they have held over 100 auctions to power everything from 3g to the radio. in addition to ushering in a new way to harness the efficiency of the free market the fcc paved a way for new innovative services. by auctioning licenses for

certain portions of the airways users have certainty they can invest upwards of tens of billions of dollars in the infrastructure without fear of being interfered with. the last two auctions alone netted over $100 billion for the u.s. treasury, however as more and more of the spectrum is being used it's more complex as commercial uses are introduced the possibility of those case of harmful interference put a spotlight on how the fcc makes such a decision. over the years we have seen challenges with how agencies coordinate their plans for introducing new services and studying the potential for harmful enter veer kwrupbs. as the committee continues to build on its work to improve the process we should be looking at how these decisions will build trust in the engineering and certainty in the licensing

process. that, when a decision is made, all users can accept the result and not work to further undermine it. it's important congress can submit a review of what has worked and what has not. i look forward to hearing from our witnesses today on the opportunities and challenges that lay ahead for smartly managing our spectrum resources. again, i want to thank our witnesses for being with us. i want to thank my friend, the chairman, for holding this hearing today and i would like to yield the remaining time i have to mr. scalise. >> thank you for hosting this hearing and i appreciate the witnesses being here. when you look over the years, congress, and especially this

sub committee and the commerce committee led the way in bringing bipartisan action in wireless innovation. it's one of those times when we come together to get good things done and it starts in this room. under the leadership, the fcc auctioned off several spectrum bands for commercial use leading to great consumer benefit and huge strides in innovation. these auctions have generated private sector investment. with the most recent auction generating more than $80 billion in revenue. by the way that $80.9 billion that was generated far exceeded the congressional budget offices to 25 to $30 billion, and with the private sector stepping up over $80 billion was generated. we want to see that continue.

it's critical our nation's spectrum management process work efficiently. and the authority action, it's important to allow the fcc to complete pending auctions as well -- when you look at the 2.5 gig ahurts band, that one thing. moving forward it's imperative we do what we can to avoid needless delays in deployment and we allow operators to encourage further investments so america can continue to lead the world, and i will look forward to hearing from the witnesses and thank you again, mr. chairman, mr. latta. i yield back the balance of my time. >> the gentleman yields back. the chairman recognizes mr.

pallone for five minutes for his opening statement. >> thank you chairman doyle. this committee has worked in bipartisan fashion to lay the ground work for innovation in this country and this hearing is no exception. we begin today to explore wireless technology and it's important that we lay the foundation that we continue to lead the world in technological advancements. there's no question without them we would not have wireless emergency alerts, the app economy, smart phones and of course drones. just imagine that for a moment so much of this technology we rely on every day simply would not exist. these are remarkable achievements but our past success does not always dictate the future. the leadership in providing consumers with access to 4g

wireless technology and wi-fi does not guarantee we will see the same result such as 6g and wi-fi 7. the united states is at risk of falling behind our counterparts across the globe in enhancing our national security capabilities, and since transitioning our airways to allow for new use takes time and we have to start to put the necessary pieces together now so the u.s. can be ready for the wireless technologies of tomorrow. this is especially important because china already reportedly made three times as much mid band spectrum available for 5g compared to the united states. faster speeds, less buffering and access to a signal endures. these are the airways that will fuel advancements to public

safety, manufacturing and supply chain management. it's not just enough to make the airways available for commercial use, but we must place it in the hands of innovators that can put them to good use for the public's benefit. the federal communications made this possible through policies. the fcc's auction program has been a success raising $200 billion since its inception and now the fcc spectrum auction authority must be extended or will expire in six months and the fcc may not be able to complete one mid band spectrum auction and auctions that already occurred may not be able to properly close. for these reasons i urge my colleagues to work in a bipartisan way to extend this short once again. we must do this well before the

fcc begins its planned auction of the gig ahurts e the federal government speaks with its own place when it comes to the airwaves and that is why the chair man and the ranking member and the spectrum innovation act it will help to clarify howaherz important the spectrum options are on the horizon should they operate to keep the process streamlined. instead of the head way to ensuring the agencies both announced the spectrum coordination initiative and reported to the house back in november and this initiative will produce the strategy that i strongly support in creating this position in tia to meet the

current and future spectrum demand of consumers and federal agencies alike as we explore the next wireless frontier and i welcome the panelists and look forward to hearing from them and i will yield back. >> the chair recognizes the ranking member of the full committee for five minutes for her the gentleman yields back. the chair now recognizes ms. rogers. >> thank you, mr. chairman. before i begin, we just heard from president zelenskyy, a strong and courageous leader for the freedom loving people of ukraine. america must stand and support ukraine's call for freedom and self determination, and that includes countering putin's evil and unjust attacks by ending his ability to use energy to fund this war by flipping the switch on for energy dominance in america and for our allies. this committee has the

opportunity to lead and to answer president zelenskyy's call to do more and i continue to urge us to do that. now to the topic of today. the success of our nation's wireless future, it depends on good management of the spectrum. we led in deploying 4g, and today our witnesses and our wireless carriers are working to make sure we lead in fifth generation technology. i just climbed a 180-foot tower and made the first 5g call in person washington. to win the future we must continue to promote innovation and keep up the demands for new and improved wireless technologies. the efficient use will be essential to keep up with the demand for wireless devices.

under president trump, over 3400 megahertz of licensed spectrum and the c ban and an additional 100 megahertz in the 3450 to 3550 megahertz band. this brought in over 100 billion. wireless carriers worked closely with federal incumbents on the tia and known as the citizens broadband -- the cbrs, and it protected navy radars using the frequencies. we're starting to see next generation technologies being developed to utilize that spectrum. we must build on this success, providing certainty to both

industry and government agencies for spectrum reallocations and auctions is a top priority, and this includes addressing the auction authority to ensure auctions such as the 3.45 gig gig ahurts. needed to clear the spectrum bands in the future. to maintain u.s. leadership in wireless technology we need a spectrum strategy that outlines the goals, objectives and actions that can be taken by federal agencies and industries to ensure the most efficient use of spectrum. even with a national strategy progressing it is becoming even more difficult. it's crucial that the agencies and stakeholders work together.

it doesn't keep pace with commercial technology. it's a difficult and many federal agencies have resorted to public fear mongering during recent high-profile spectrum disputes we have seen agencies such as the department of spectrum disputes we have seen agencies such as the department of transportation attempt to assert its authority over commercial spectrum bands where their agencies do not hold licenses. these costly interagency battles threaten us to lead the world in communications. we must have confidence in the established process as we continue to push for stable spectrum pipelines. meanwhile adversaries like china and russia are trying to undermine our leadership.

china is trying to use standard setting institutions that set standards that take theirs rules over ours. i strongly support the candidacy to become the secretary general of the international telecommunications union. doreen is running against a candidate from the russian federation. given recent atrocities by russia it's essential we stand behind doreen and help keep the internet open and safe. i look forward to hearing from all our witnesses. >> pursuant to committee rules, all members written's opening statements shall be made part of the record. it gives me great pleasure to

introduce our witnesses for today's hearing, starting with greg guice, and vaughn todd, and director of the competitive carriers board of directors, global security affairs ctia and mary brown, senior director of government affairs systems inc. you will have five minutes for your statements and the little box in front of you we have one minute left will turn yellow and then at the end of five minutes it will turn red and if you speak longer than that, a trapdoor opens under your chair and you are whisked down to the rayburn subway and out of here. with that, i want to thank everyone and you are now

recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chairman, ranking member and member mcmorris rodgers. thank you for inviting us here to testify today. i'm the director of government affairs and public knowledge. dedicated to promoting freedom of expression and open internet and access to affordable communications and creative works. as members of the committee are aware we are in the midst of the conductivity resolution with more services, demand spectrum resources, proceed to satisfy the demand has become increasingly challenging. to meet the challenge we must first use all the tools in the toolbox to provide access to the licensed, unlicensed, open access sharing, second is the committee just recognized, we have to insist on expert coordination led by the fcc and the end tia and third emphasize the public interest first and foremost in the spectrum policy.

supporting the structural components will allow the policymakers to address the spectrum needs to secure opportunities for all americans and to maintain the collective global competitiveness. as the ranking members mcmorris rodgers noted the demand for the devices to meet that demand means that there are a few opportunities remaining. everyone has to work to enhance and policymakers need to focus on issues such as the spectrum utilization, incumbents and tightening of the technical parameters including receivers. in addition we need to use all the tools in the toolbox when it comes to access. back in 2009 and 2010 when i was honored to serve as counsel on the committee under then chairman waxman, representative doyle and a number of other folks on the committee made the case that we do not need the policy between licensed and

unlicensed but rather they were calling them for what we now know as the sound framing, and exit access regimes that promote spectrum efficiencies and a healthy, vibrant, wireless sector. .. they did it all without interference. cvrs show that policymakers when they do focus should focus on remaining open to the idea of exploring the full suite of access regimes when considering any spectrum band.

as members of the committee you are well aware of the importance of spectrum coordination and interagency process. as chairman doyle and ranking member latta wrote in their op-ed last week it's essential the interagency coordination process be followed and it be made clear ntia is the agency to hear concerns of federal agencies and the agency meant to address those concerns. we are encouraged as was just recognized the fcc and ntia are working on their spectrum coordination update. they have re-established high-level meetings and are updating the understanding and developing a national spectrum policy. all of this is critical to restoring our interagency process. as this committee and the fcc explores new spectrum opportunities, we must ensure that every allocation serves the

public interest, convenience and necessity. this means more than making spectrum available for new services, it includes ensuring that members of our society, all members, including rural communities, low-income communities and communities of color enjoy the benefits of the spectrum technologies as consumers and creators and innovators. simply put, spectrum policy should serve the public interest as congress has directed. i wanted to spend sometime this morning discussing access regimes, interagency coordination and the need to focus on public interest because those elements are key to the next phase of exploring the wireless frontier. in my written testimony i go over five opportunities in detail but just to briefly mention them here in closing so i don't fall through the trap, to advance the public interest need congress should renew the fcc's auction authority and

should support public interest needs with the auction revenues. the committee should look at digital equity, and that public knowledge and other public interest groups joined in coalition to support as part of the airways for equity campaign, and that doesn't mean a dedicated wireless funds that other public needs can't be satisfied as well. to promote sharing opportunities the spectrum innovation act is a great opportunity to do that work and we look forward to working with you as that moves forward in this committee. we also hope this committee will encourage the fcc to think about opening up the 12 gigahertz band for a variety of uses that protect the incumbent satellite opportunities and allows for a greater mix of the band so we can fully utilize that. and finally i think this committee can support sensing

technologies that promote sharing as well. thank you for your consideration. i am sorry to go over time. >> i was going to say, your chair was looking lower as you were speaking. mr. todd, you are recognized for five minutes. >> chairman doyle, congressman lata, is it's to be here. hcc is the telecommunications optitive, where our subscribers are our owners and we call them the members. it has been the leading communications provider for coastal south carolina. i am excited about the role that wireless plays in our future and htc's efforts to bring the latest communication services to our members throughout our service area, and while the potential of wireless services

including 5g and beyond is limitless, the key input needed to make that potential reality is spectrum. carriers depend on sustainable and predictable access to spectrum. finite resource. congress can support that all americans have access by extending the fcc spectrum auction authority. second, by bringing additional bands to the market for licensed commercial use. third, making sure that winning auction bidders can swiftly and efficiently put those spectrum resources to use to serve consumers. htc was formed in 1952 and has over 700 employees working to provide the latest services to our over 100,000 local members. we support local economic development and community and educational programs. even further, htc returns excess

revenues returned back to the members in the form of capital credits totaling over 153 million dollars to date. we work hard to meet the needs and provide a high level of service to all of our members. serving a geographically and demographically diverse region stretches from urban destinations to rural farm lands. there's an urgent need for broadband services and as a cooperative, installing new community and school hot spots and participating in the ebb program, now the affordable connectivity program. i appreciate and thank the members of this committee for committing and maintaining this importance to put connectivity in reach. there's a full range of communication services to our members and wireless connectivity is an important tool in our portfolio.

wireless services are particularly important to reach more rural and impoverished areas, especially where larger companies will not expand to provide services as well as more urban areas where companies have us locked out. the spectrum needed to provide wireless reliable connectivity is available from the fcc. importantly, fcc auctions allow for things like smaller licenses, and this is critical for smaller companies like ours. to continue to bring the latest services to market, we need to know that additional spectrum will be made available and we need to make sure congress expends the fcc auction authority. this year's 2.5 gigahertz auction will make spectrum available in our markets. gaining access to the spectrum will provide us with increased confidence in our ability to meet the future data needs of

our subscribers and enhance our ability to compete. the expansion of the auction authority will ensure the fcc has what they need to participate in the upcoming 2.5 gigahertz auction. we urge congress to meet growing wireless demands, including in low, mid and high bands, meaningful ways to help smaller carriers to participate. while the fcc should make additional spectrum bands available for wireless use, the coordination process should be improved. i think members of this committee for working to enhance and restore faith in the process, including efforts to update the memorandum of understanding between the fcc and ntia. in closing, 5g and other wireless technologies will rapidly expand connectivity and improve the aspects of every day

life, and to make sure we can expand and meet the demands of the next frontier. thank you. inviting me today to provide a global perspective on spectrum policy to enable 5g next-generation wi-fi in six g.. i'm responsible for global policy efforts related to digital infrastructure including connectivity by g. wi-fi and 68 i, a.b. and i/o g.. including -- i've extensive experience working at the regional and global level in putting the world >> i have expensive experience working in at the national regional and global level including the itu and the world radio communication conferences. intel is one of only three simi conductor manufacturers in the world using advance nodes.

they are foundational to personal, cloud, quantum and high performance computing, avs and 5g and wi-fi. we are a provider for infrastructure and intel is also a leader in bluetooth technology solutions for the pc market. intel plays an active role in the technology life cycle in developing standards to enabling infrastructure. with respect to pipeline considerations it's crucial to replenish the pipeline for mobile broadband technologies to meet near term and long term deployment goals for consumers and a wide range of businesses. as fcc chairwoman recently stated for 6g we need to start

working now. 6g may utilize high bands, bands above 95 gigahertz as well as low bands. replenishing the spectrum pipelines require not which bands to study but the commercial sreulability of the spectrum including bands such as the lower 3g gigahertz bands. and it's crucial to enabling a u.s. leadership role in wireless globally. the fcc's decision to open up the 6 gigahertz for wi-fi has been transformative. so what is a timely manner? to provide some perspective on this issue, the itu targeted completion of 5g high band process is november of 2019, and the intel team completed our

internal analysis of the status of availability as well as technical characteristics four years prior to that, in september of 2015. the fcc issued its first report in order making high band spectrum available over three years before the target date. over the next few years other leading countries also took steps on 5g spectrum. as a result of the fcc's early action when the international treaty deliberations occurred much of the high band spectrum was for use at the conference in 2019. for 6g the process is scheduled to be completed in 2030, and looking back at the previous timeline the question i have is do we think the u.s. is on track to make spectrum for 6g.

unless we move rapidly now, moving on to the importance of interagency cooperation, coordination, ntia must be in power to ensure together with the fcc that the nation's spectrum resources are managed in the public interest. additionally extension of the fcc spectrum auction authority will be important for continued u.s. broadband deployment efforts. finally despite the crucial nation of the simi conductors underpinning this technology, the u.s. has lost production to asia over the past 30 years. federal investment is urgently needed to reverse the erosion bi-leveling the playing field. congress took the first step by authorizing the chips early last

year, and while intel is doing its part to invest in technology leadership in the u.s., congress must do the job by making sure the funding is there as soon as possible. this investment will bolster the u.s. capacity that underpins 5g and the infrastructure. we look forward to working with the committee, the fcc, ntia and other federal agencies to ensure the spectrum pipeline continues to flow to support u.s. broadband development and deployment. >> thank you very much. mr. bergmann, you are recognized for five minutes. >> chairman doyle, ranking member latta and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be with you and testify today. i am scott bergmann, and i want to thank you for your focus on creating smart spectrum policies, 5g in our country's future. we have identified specific

bands for the fcc to auction. fueled by a remarkable record of investment, 5g wireless broadband networks are transforming the way we live and work. 5g is also helping to protect our planet. according to a recent study 5g will put a 20% contribution helping the country to meet our climate change goals. now fixed wireless 5g with its expanded capabilities is helping to bridge the digital divide and bring competitive choice to the home broadband market. every experience with 5g, job creation, smart cities and improvements in health care and our environment, it's predicated on the availability of spectrum.

we need to free up additional spectrum. fcc chair should be commanded for moving quickly on the auction last year as directed by this committee. in her recent announcement, the auction is a welcome sign. after this auction, however, the spectrum pipeline goes empty. and we understand global leadership in wireless goes to spectrum. but the right policies we can maintain our global wireless leadership. we offer to the committee today more recommendations for the global leader in wireless. the ftc -- fcc auction authority as is slated to expire in september and to ensure the licensed spectrum will deliver 5g to consumers and businesses auctions are proven to be the that rock of 5g and u.s.

networks. since 1993 congress established our first in the world spectrum auction authority and never allow that authority to lapse. congress is granted broad option authority in the short-term one-year extension. this usage on five occasions congress has granted broad action authority in all but one a short-term one-year extension, it has used these opportunities to direct auctions of specific bands. ctai urges congress to do the same this year. second, it's in our national interest to identify a spectrum pipeline of bands that can be auctioned for exclusive licensed use. the lower band is a top priority. it's adjacent to existing full power commercial spectrum and offers the ability to provide large channels making it an ideal fit for congress for 5g. and now congress can take steps to streamline this access and we support the act that brings the

process to bring that to action. at the same time it extends auction authority. congress's long leveraged directed spectrum auctions to key priorities, including deficit reduction. we welcome the opportunity to collaborate. we would note the chairwoman recently asked for proceeds for the ng 911 services. it could provide a boost to our nation's 911 system and the leadership. it can help to meet this challenge and provide guide posts for advancing u.s. 5g leadership. finally there's much that we can do to reutilize a unified voice

to spectrum management. while it generally works well, it broke down in the debate. we commend the coordination initiative as an important first step. as a nation we can and must do better. thank you again for the opportunity to testify, and i look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much. ms. brown, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you members of the sub committee. my name is mary brown and i am here to provide you with cisco's views on wireless. it's a $49 billion provider of equipment, services located in san josé, california. wireless cisco offers wi-fi and private 5g solutions. spectrum is vital to all of our

customers. thanks to the leadership from congress, the united states finds itself in the enviable position of being a technology leader in both licensed and unlicensed technology. not only does this mean that u.s. consumers get the best and get it first, but companies domestic and foreign see the u.s. as a place where advanced technologies are developed and deployed. wi-fi is a prime example of a technology that benefited from congressional and fcc leadership and here are three recent statistics that prove it. annual u.s. revenues for the sale of devices is approaching $1 billion annually while the total economic value of wi-fi in the united states will reach as much as $1.6 trillion. comcast reported last fall that its customers are connecting nearly 1 billion devices on its network alone. in the 2018 mobile now act

congress declared as a matter of federal policy the fcc must provide for unlicensed spectrum. in 2020 the fcc opened 1200 megahertz of spectrum paving the way for new generation for wi-fi. why tpaoeu is also the most widely deployed spectrum technology in the business, and 5g will soon become part of the enterprise and at cisco we are looking forward to 5g for our customers. for 6g, the next g alliance enables the u.s. to develop a consensus vision on what it hopes the 6g will uniquely

accomplish. on government agency disagreements, there's probably one unfortunate issue upon which we can all agree. we have not found that happy place in spectrum policy decision making where collaboration reigns over confrontation. while my written testimony contains several suggestions, here are two points most important. first, congress should make clear to ntia and the executive branch generally that it wants ntia to be the lead agency on spectrum matters, and the recently resized memorandum of understanding is a important development we should all celebrate underscoring the importance of agencies working together. on auction reauthorization, congress maintained reaction authority since adopted in 1993 and it should review that authority this year as congress and the fcc continue to work on more spectrum for 5g and

ultimately 6g. it's true that over the decades auctions have amassed over $175 billion enabling spending on a variety of important public interest programs, however thinking about auctions narrowly as a vehicle that puts cash into the federal budget atm misses the mark, and far more important is the economic value measurable in the hundreds of billions created by the networks that have been built as a result of auctions. auctions serve other important purposes. in 2012 congress authorized the new form of auction and that was a much needed tool to the fcc as it began its work of transitioning spectrum allocations from 20th century technologies to 21st century ones. in conclusion, renewing action authority remains relevant to

the networks, and ntia needs to be deemed the lead agency on spectrum within the executive branch and spectrum policy should continue to enable the advance of licensed and unlicensed radio technology. thank you for the opportunity to testify. i look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much. we have concluded opening statements. we're now going to move to member questions. each member will have five minutes to ask questions of our witnesses and i would ask all my colleagues, who i love dearly, to adhere to the five-minute rule unless you hear my gavel. i will try and set a good example. as demonstrated by the strong demand, mid band spectrum is vitally important for connectivity. our build spectrum innovation

act seems to maximize the spectrum available for consumer use in the 3.1 to 3.45 in prime to mid spectrum. as an advocate for usage, can you discuss how the process, we engage with ntia and the sec. we with structure a path forward to coming online. >> do you believe this legislation can help provide consumers with greater access to 5g and other technoltechnologie? >> thank you for the question. thank you for your focus on this legislation.

absolutely. 5g is all advanced and the lower is absolutely critical band. we appreciate your leadership with the spectrum innovation act that would speed access to this ban. focus on license spectrum and a time line. all critical for nationally harr -- harmonized. >> we're increasingly in con -- confrontations between incumbent and new users. i'm glad to hear the witness reenforce the the importance of having federal government engage in coordinate spectrum management. you discuss how we manage the impact of new spectrum users. could you expound on that and how that would shape the end user experience? >> yes. thank you for the question.

i think the way in which we equipped our agenies to resolve is not lending itself to a successful resolution of the issues at this point. my observation around these issues and it goes to see band but also to transportation spectrum and elsewhere is that the decisions are often challenged by users communities who fear interference and do not perceive there's a voice in the decision making process that addresses their concerns from their perperspective. they know a lot about their systems but don't know a lot about spectrum sharing or agencies. we need to think about new ways to put new dynamics into the process that helps build consensus. in my testimony i suggested a couple of ways to explore. one is put the boulder lab more front and center in the middle

of these issues to help build engineering consensus around what the right answers are. another might be to give the sec the authority to conduct independent engineering research which it does not really do today but other regulators and other parts of the world do. the pay out is enormous because by sharpening the tools that the regulators have and building consensus, we can reduce the census which is matter of interest to consumers but also a matter of national -- >> thank you. much of today's discussion has been about domestic policies. for this reason, i'd like to take the opportunity to mention the i coming leadership elections at the u.n. i want to second what ranking member rogers said, u.s.

nominated a well qualified candidate. it's important that congress and the administration continue to advocate for her to be the next secretary general. with these important considerations in mind and recognizing your experience within the international forums, i was hoping to hear how spectrum decisions here in the united states shape international conversations in global policies and how that ultimately impacts american consumers and companies. would you please share your thoughts with us in ten seconds or i'm in big trouble with my colleagues. >> it's absolutely crucial, mr. chairman. >> that's a great answer. with that i yield back my time and recognize my good friend. >> i was waiting to see if the chair disappeared. thank you. you point out your testimony the

sec general authority to grant you permits or licenses with use of spectrum expires on september 30th of this year. however, the sec retain authority to office spectrum reverse band that would have the instruction best of jobs act. as congress considers whether or how to pre-authorize authority, what spectrum bands and pipeline and how should congress think about extending the authority to continuing to make spectrum available? >> thank you for that question. it's on two of the most important things for us which is auction authority and having the spectrum pipeline. in our 30 years, it's never expired before. this is new ground. it's really important that be moved forward. when congress does that, we urge you to consider spectrum pipeline. there are some really important

candidates. the lower three is critical. congress can work to advance that and have access to that band. it's internationally harmonized. focus really is on the spectrum right now. >> thank you. >> ms. brown, i'm co-share of the wi-fi caucus. what do you expect to see in terps of license in the next five or ten years. >> thank you for the question.

the demand for any wireless technology whether it's wi-fi or 5g just continues to rise. wi-fi today and unlicensed spectrum represents more than half of all internet traffic because we are consuming most wireless traffic when we are indoors whether at work or at home. from a consumer perspective, what we are going to see is a convergence of the two eco systems as we go forward. one example would be the fixed 5g offerings already in the marketplace where the traffic is called the 5g back to bay station but in the home, the connections to the actual devices are wi-fi.

more examples like that coming and more convergence and it's going to be to the benefit of the american consumer. >> thank you very much. would you want to speak about how you identify your spectrum needs and what the 2.5 gigahertz mean for the provider? >> it means choice that's critical to us for propagation and speed. consumer would lose out without access to this technology as the increase for broadband continues to grow and those needs occur across our service area. >> thank you. >> if i could ask you a question, if i heard you correctly, the u.s. might not be in the 6g. how do we wake people up to make

sure we stay in the top and what would happen if we're not? >> thank you for the question. before i start, i would like to say i've been with intel for 20 years and we expected a good reception in ohio but it has far exceeded that. many thanks for that on behalf of my colleagues. >> we appreciate it. >> in terms of 6g, it is really important. i describe the five-year gap where we had to intercept that with product development plans and when we look out to 6g horizons, complete that process internationally by 2030, i don't see the urgency that i think we need to have to make sure that we are in a position. anything we can do to make sure that can happen in a timely manner can help make it well

placed. the u.s. positions are taking into account and we can colease countries around our position. >> thank you very much. i yield back. >> the chair recognizes mr. pallone for five minutes. >> thank you. it's important that the u.s. and like minded countries lead in development and deployment so our public interest principals are at the center of any technological progress. can you expand how we keep the public interest at the fore front of our spectrum policy?

>> thank you for the question. it's a critical aspect we need to pursue. focusing that they have the opportunity to get connected is important so we all have a right and ability to speak on these networks. as we look forward to how we do that, you address it in your opening statement. it's an important step using auction revenues to advance that is important. that doesn't have to compete with some of the other public interest needs that i know a number of members in this committee are looking at. >> thank you. ntia and fcc recent spectrum

coordination issue certainly helps improve things and we also requiring something similar to last year. my question to you is why spectrum coordination important globally? would having a national spectrum strategy help? >> thank you for the question. you need radios, filters, et cetera. when you need the components, if the u.s. doesn't have advance forward and the manufacturers are not ware of those, what ends up happening is other countries can go into the void and put other bands in higher priorities. if the u.s. does want to be a

leader here early action allows us signaling ideas of which bands are under consideration and starting that process really is helpful for us to be able to identify those and make sure that is happening at the international level as well. >> thank you. ms. brown, unlicense use of our air waves offers economic benefits and they help kids compete or complete their homework as well as the naval advances in health care and other things. in addition a recent report found unlicensed veterans contribute over $79 billion per year in economic value. with these benefits in mind, what is the impact to consumers and innovators if they fail to free up additional airways for unlicensed use? >> great question. thank you for the question. let me elaborate a little bit on what me colleague said.

consumer benefit when we can lead in spectrum allocation and we can lead in product development. we were the first country to adopt that unlicensed band. we have over 200 pieces of equipment that have been through the certification process ranging from television sets, access point, laptops, et cetera. all of that is happening here first. we get the access to equipment and the innovation and the innovative new uses of unlicensed and as we move forward we're expecting to see a lot more deployment of augmented reality and virtual reality types of devices in that band. we have the room to support those technologies. tremendously important. thank you. >> thank you. i yield back, mr. chairman.

>> the gentleman yields back. the chair recognizes the ranking member, mrs. rogers for five minutes. >> thank you. our last hearing with nti administrator, i voiced my concern with faa circumventing the establishment management process. how can we move forward from this incident and rebuild trust in the spectrum decision making process? >> thank you for the question and your focus on this issue. it's critical. nearly universal set of perspectives we can agree to the process broke down.

that's really unfortunate because we have the fcc and ntia who are experts, look at the issue and plan for an auction. had 13th hour objections to that and that's a tremendous challenge. it undermines that auction authority and our spectrum frame work for making that available. some of things we think about are improving coordination, would applaud mr. davidson, chairwoman for their spectrum coordination initiative. we think that's a very positive step. we're encouraged coordination has improved and gotten much more engineering focused. it's important these be science based decisions and concerns are raised early and we plan for those concerns. one of the things we think about

is whole of government approach is key so we don't identify concerns, we can plan for priorities. we know 5g is a priority. this is about making sure we achieve the benefits of 5g. it's about $1.5 trillion to the economy and 4.5 new jobs 5g brings. >> international harmization can play an important role. the countries like china seek to disrupt that leadership and offer different vision with their spectrum interest in mind. what can we do to ensure continued u.s. wireless leadership internationally as

well as continued economic growth and innovation by our trusted allies and partners? >> thank you for the question. i think we're already doing it. we need to just keep doing more of it. this hearing is a great example. we need, as my colleagues have said, to identify, spectrum pipeline, to continue to advance our spectrum allocations in support of our largest technology ecosystems namely wi-fi and 5g and leading into 6g. as a result of that by taking action and building consensus here, we have enormous weight when we turn to face the international community. we have seen that in the unlicensed space with the 6g hertz decision where we have dozens of countries following the fcc lead. moving quickly, paying attention to it, getting the work done,

very important and we need to keep doing more of it. thank you. >> thank you. one of the major successes under the trump administration was bringing together ntia to establish america's mid-band initiative teams. to identify and make hundred megahertz of mid-band spectrum for 5g. how does the u.s. compare to international counterparts in terms of spectrum availability and what areas of spectrum policy should we be thinking about to better position the united states at the international level? >> thank you for the question. i would characterize it as there's different amounts onds different use cases and that's happening. it sort of started in some of the leading markets and countries that wants to make sure they were playing leadership roles moving forward and the u.s. was the very first in terms of the high band spectrum we made available.

we saw them come together on which bands were going to be targeted and used. we have expecting to see a lot more 5g deployments in countries that have not made them to date. when we look at the bigger picture, we have to see what continues. 5g is not a point in time. the standard was created in 3gpp. that will continue to evolve as we move towards 6g. as that happens, we want to make sure we have spectrum available in near term. domestically we should be thinking what can we put into the pipeline for the near term and be looking at that over the longer term for 6g. how are we going to make sure that we have identified which area -- which pieces of spectrum may be viable in the u.s. and which ones we want the

international market. i would say near term, making sure we have the pipeline and longer term. >> thank you. i've gone over. i yield back. >> gentle lady yields back. >> this is really important subject to me. i'm glad you held it. i thank the witnesses. i've long advocated on the spectrum international strategy. >> thank you for the question.

it's a great opportunity to expand on our unlicensed work. opening that band up could present real opportunities to help us evolve into wi-fi 7. really keeping that mix of access regimes available is what will be critical. >> thank you. you observe that using artificial intelligence was identified by the alliance for telecommunications industry. this question goes to miss brown. using ai is been identified by the alliance for telecommunication industry as the goal for 6g technology. how does that availability of license and unlicensed spectrum affect the united states ability to compete with other nations in ai.

. >> thank you for the question. it's widely expected that ai will be used in 6g networks to a far greater extent than it is today. it's already used in networks today but to far greater extent. i think by leading in 6g both in terms of what the vision and the use cases are and understanding how that impact spectrum allocation, paying attention and getting that work done in that way is going to ensure that u.s. innovation will be first in these new 6g networks to come. this is another sort of benefit of paying attention to the spectrum allocation process and getting this work done as quickly as possible. thank you. >> thank you. can ai be used to enhance

spectrum utilization spectrum efficiency? >> thank you for the question. i think most of the ai we see right now is actually, in terms of network, is to increase network performance. make sure nempbs network is ope as well as it can be. as you move toward edge commute -- computing, we will see increased ai applications and allowing the benefits of the connectivity with the compute and ai to really maximize the overall benefits. it's going be on the network performance in the near term. i would not underscore what the

applications will enable. when you can look at ai being able to, for instance, look at machine weld on a factory floor to make sure the weld has been done correctly in a way that no person could see the images. it's the end user applications that ai will encourage. for the near term, i think it's mostly in terms of network performance and enhancing that overall performance. >> thank you. that's a viewpoint i had not thought of. how will american consumers and businesses be affected by their country's continued to innovate their spectrum offerings while

the u.s. lags? >> thank you so much for the question. it's key to 5g. it provides the capacity we need for new, expanded capabilities. higher capacity, lower latency and what that enables is variety of benefits. it enables us to address concerns about the digital divide. new services like 5g for home. enables us to address our nation's climate change goal as we start to integrate 5g into the highest sectors in our economy. it enables us to be the home for innovation by bringing topics like the one you were raising, ai or virtual reality and innovation in those industries here to the u.s. that's why it's so critical that we have advanced spectrum to enavailable that to continue to grow. >> gentleman's time has expired. >> i yield back. >> chair recognizes mr. guthrie.

>> thank you. i appreciate the recognition and everybody being here today. we're pushing against the september 30th deadline. how has making more spectrum available for commercial use bolstered our effort to close the digital divide? >> thank you for the question. as a cooperative, hgs is focused on serving all of our members equally and providing equal access to service. broad band expansion howed us to expand where larger carriers may not have made broadband available. we have been able to see first hand how bridging the digital divide can affect and improve

opportunities in rural communities. we have seen examples of hot spot performance in community senter to allow households without access to broad wand band to come together at the locations to connect. for us it's all about the availability and useability to make sure as we continue toex pands out, that folks have access as soon as they can to broadband. >> are you focused on areas that aren't able to expand? >> yes, sir. we have participated in different programs whether it's state, federal funding programs to have access to grants, to expand into those areas.

those vehicles have been very beneficial for us. >> thanks. that's good to know. thank you. we've been working on legislation. we re-authorized the fcc spectrum auction authority and beyond the 3 gigahertz, we continue to do our due diligence to continue what additional bands may be right for auction. my question is what are benefits for congress preserving its authority to direct the fcc to conduct certain auctions? >> congress has played a leadership role in providing direction to fcc about what should happen next.

it really helps drive consensus. i can't stress how important it is for do you all to help the spectrum community direct the fcc on this important auction program. we have not had, for a long time, auction authority without some direction in terms of what spectrum should be up next. i encourage you to do that again this year. >> thank you. thank you. appreciate that. we have seen the 3 dot giga hertz auction that granted flexible use licenses. it's key for successful

operations. i introduced the smart spectrum act that require ntia to have an incumbent system between federal and non-federal uses. what are some lessons learned from the previous auctions like cbrs and 45 gigahertz we need to take into effect as we look at the next spectrum? >> thank you. it's important we think about all tools that we have available to us to make more spectrum available. we appreciate the focus there. i think for us, when we think about spectrum access, it's about certainty. our companies have made investments of about $30 billion for year in license access spectrum and having that certainty is absolutely critical. when we look at different spectrum sharing arrangement, one of the challenges of the cbrs frame work is the

complexity. it's more complex than any other country has deployed in that sort of critical area. we think about things like the power levels that can be used. for us, i think the market tells the story. you see that the market valued, that greater certainty that you have with exclusive use spectrum and, you know, to value of about four to one when you just for the amount of spectrum. the reason is -- >> thank you. i think my time is expired. i yield back. he was about to gavel me. i heard him.

>> that's why i love you so much, joe. >> glad to have you here. >> thank you. >> thank you to our witnesses for testimony. it's critical for underserved and marginalized populations to stay connected to essential online resources. it's as narrowing the digital

divide. my first question is for mr. ghist. you noticed a primary focus is necessary to fulfill the growing demand for spectrum resources. >> thank you. i know we worked together on a number of efforts.

it's one way to reach communities. to drive investment into the lower income communities and our rural areas. looking at the authority the fcc gave -- congress gave the fcc on a bipartisan basis to look at past digital discrimination. >> how do we create the dynamics

before us? >> that's great question as well. this context this is a source of funding that is pretty substantial. make certain the needs are addressed and focus the efforts. >> there's a spectrum reallocation, reconstructed to promote digital inclusion and increase access to the affordability after 5g connectivity for unserved and

underserved communities. >> yes. we need to make certain we're getting everybody, all americans and figuring out the tools to help them is critical. >> wonderful. i thank you. it's been allocated for both licensed and unlicensed. as we replenish spectrum use available recognizing that what considerations should policy recognizing this, what considerations should policy makers take into account when evaluating the best methods for allowing new uses in the

spectrum band? >> the short answer is yes, we should. could operators to continually that they are using in the license spectrum that they have. >> have a vested interest in being the world of 5g tech and service.

in the past five or six years alone, we have seen numerous disputes in our our government, in our industrial and government industry disputes. they are a bit embarrassing, frankly. how can the u.s. be expected to lead when it has to grapple with turf wars. first question, with the demand for all time highs, what does congress need to help to do to direct more spectrum toward 5g and 6g.

>> thank you so much for the question. i mentioned earlier spectrum regulator expert, this committee is our nation's spectrum expert as well too. we look forward to the committee to lead in terms of defining the auctions and reduce it. >> adam, are you still with us?

there he is. >> i'm going recognize -- then we'll let adam back on. are you there? >> if you can hear me, i yield back. >> okay. gentleman yields back. >> thank you very much. as many of you know, i just like the rest of the country the dallas/ft. worth area is

experiencinggrowth in roofing and technologies companies. our next question for mr. guice. benefits low income communities as new technology. >> thank you very much for the question. it ensures that entrepreneurs, minority businesses have the opportunity to explore, getting access and spectrum technologies without a huge up front payment

on spectrum acquisitions. it creates those opportunities. we encourage to think about it and spectrum service areas may hinder that opportunity for women and minority owned businesses. it can pursue opportunities. the fcc should structure its

opportunities. >> needs to be connected and has access to next generation technology. >> congress took a substantial step in bringing connectivity to these issues. the states are pursing it. rural divides that need to be bridged. this is a once in a generation investment. >> i wanted to ask you a question. deployment, we should be very

intentional about advocating in the public. the benefits of 5g and other cutting edge technology. >> we have a variety of programs. in ohio we are as part of our initiative making sure we are doing work force development as part of our ohio roll out.

doing that respect as well. >> i yields back. there's no question and it's a bright future. in 2019, eia unveiled the idea

of a national five-year spectrum plan. at that time, i said this was a good idea to ensure a unified strategy among agencies. federal agencies are not on the same page when it comes to spectrum strategy. in some ways this disharmony is an embarrassment for our functioning government. it's maintained a five-year spectrum plan since 2017. then roll to an updated five-year plan.

at minimum should be included in a u.s. strategy of spectrum and should we use australia's spectrum tomorrow? >> thank you. i talked a lot about it. we can look for allocations

between license and unlicensed. we have about 1900 megahertz. i think it's important that you make the strategic decisions so you have enough of the right assets coming to market. i would encourage this committee, you all can help with that spectrum pipeline. the understanding of spectrum. i'd love to see it on the floor

of the house of representatives as soon as possible. where their seeking to address to make this process better. problems surrounding federal agencies of the last spectrum auction and licenses. >> do you think it's critical

that all agencies appreciate and recognize the goals that you talked about, the national spectrum strategy so we have ntia and the fcc leading and think about how support goals so we can plan for them. >> i think we do have existing processes through intergovernmental coordination. the key is the processes broke down. how quickly can we bring 5g home

to bear. definitely encourage this committee to make sure the agencies are getting the feedback as quickly as possible. >> gentleman's time has expired. >> thank you. i'd like to start off and note when we did development of wired broad band service, we found it was critical to ensure that we knew were areas were in and not.

it's a little tricky with wireless providers. >> thank you. unfortunately, too ovten our maps have relied on the theoretical propagation characteristics which leaves a lot of communities unserved but reported as served.

it's going to be critical that we get the information right. the opportunities to miss communities in our urban sectors as well as communities in our rural sector are vastly increased. let's take a look at the opportunities but make certain the crowd sourcing of data we present is available to consumers as well. >> thank you. i'd like to talk to you about the so-called last mile, if we can. how do we ensure the spectrum remains available as we move

forward with auctions. >> thank you so much for the question. as we think about trying to meet our biggest challenges like connecting 100% of the population which is absolutely right goal for this committee, i think mobile wireless is particularly well suited to make those connections and i would applaud this committee for its focus on technological neutrality and the programs you have adopted and seen with success of programs like the emergency broadband benefit. two out of every three consumers choosing wireless. they have plans to connect together over 200 million homes. we know this can be a critical

part of the equation. it can be deployed quickly. in many cases can be deployed more affordably and it's going to bring choice to the home broadband market. we're very excited about 5g home for wireless and appreciate this committee's focus on making sure we have the right spectrum to do that. >> thank you, sir. i thank all the witnesses. i'm going to give you a whole minute back. i yield back. >> thank you. the chair recognizes bill johnson for five minute. >> thank you. mr. todd, as co-chair of the 5g caucus, i'm focused on funding opportunities so the 5g network can be swiftly deployed. i'm pleased it was recently announced the fcc plans to start an auction for the band this july, this will make more

spectrum available for 5g expansion especially in rural part of the country. unfortunately, the fcc's auction authority is set to expire on september 30th. something like that has never happened since the fcc's auction authority was first enacted in the mid-90s. please walk us through how this looming expiration might impact the preparation of smaller carriers. >> thank you for the question. from a small carrier perspective, not continuing auction authority would hinder our participation because we don't have the resources that larger regional national providers have. >> okay. recently a technical disagreement in the c-band spectrum made national news. we all heard about it. a spectrum repurposing is becoming more difficult, we need to ensure our spectrum licensing

system provides certainty to encourage investment in wireless technology and we need to ensure that federal agencies are communicating, collaboraing and fully cooperating to ensure safety issues are addressed without disrupting the auction process. the c-band spectrum that was auctioned is a non-federal band. can you explain how the faa inserted itself into the process and whether they had a formal role in the reallocation process? >> thank you very much for that question and the focus on the issue. i think we can all agree the process broke down in the c-band and caused unnecessary friction. we saw that when we look at how the rest of the world uses the band safely and has 5g and safe flights.

it's critical we learn from this lesson. when we have companies that are willing to invest tens of billions of dollars to solve the digital divide, bring jobs. it's critical that process happen smoothly and making sure there's early agency input. the fcc do have a process where they share proposed decisions and circulate those. i think the challenge here is that some of those aviation -- some of that aviation equipment listens outside of its band. in the 5g world we stay in our lane. we're focused on providing service in our lane. that aviation equipment listens outside of its band. when i think about early planning, i think about not just raising concerns but how do we plan for the future so there are technology upgrades to be more efficient with that spectrum. >> back to that operative words,

cooperate, communicate and collaborate across agencies to make sure we address the questions up front. faa stakeho not like the outcome of that proceeding, what is the long-term impact to the public's trust when americans see federal agencies raising last-minute concerns after the auction? once concerns were already addressed by the so-called expert agencies, i mean, how can the american people trust what we're doing if we miss something this big? >> i would absolutely agree with you. we saw unnecessary friction in the aviation industry, for consumers and certainly in the wireless world, too. we know every six-month delay in 5g costs us $25 billion in the benefits we hope to achieve from it.

it's absolutely critical we solve these issues going forward. >> you bet. one last question for you, mr. bergmann. one of the biggest auctions the fcc has ever conducted is the auction of the c-band spectrum while the first 100 megahertz of the full 280 megahertz has been made available, the remaining 180 megahertz of the spectrum will be made available in phase two of the transition. as congress examines whether and how to extend fcc authority to issue permits and licenses what would be the impact to your industry if the fcc is unable to complete processing the phase two licenses? >> absolutely. well, it's absolutely critical we bring spectrum, the first phase available in july, and it's critical we move forward with phase two as well, too. we know that's key to all those benefits 5g will bring. >> europe aware of it. >> the gentleman's time has expired. the chair now recognizes mr. soto for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman.

in central florida and throughout the nation americans rely on spectrum for cell service, internet, social media, gps, various apps from health to music, and that's why i was so excited about the 5g rollout. this was a tremendous accomplishment. we know there was balancing that had to happen between both cellular and aviation and those issues will continue to be resolved, and it's key that we work together through cellular and other areas as we go forward on c-band concerns that have been around for about four years representing central florida, tourism capital, with so much air traffic. we happened to be able to do this because we worked together in a public/private partnerships, government, as well as private industries, and that's why it's so key to do the same thing as we open up new spectrum for auction which is why we're here today, to educate

the american people and why it's key to extend the fcc's auction authority currently set to expire on september 30th of this year. and what's at stake mid band spectrum which has good signal range and is better indoors, helps with increased capacity, faster speeds, latency, things that are key to make sure we have the crisp cell phone connection. we march to 6g next, to those of you at home just catching up with 5g, virtual reality, machine learning and other technical advances. 6g will be critical to these for our economy, health care, national security, finance, entertainment, so many other issues. i'm glad it was brought up about the american competes act and the chips act included in there because all of this is together without the supplies for cell

phones and other technical advances. we won't be able to let this happen. i'm hopeful like with the infrastructure law this committee will come together to pass the america competes act. we're excited to make microchips in central florida and we're going to keep going forward on that. i'm excited about commercial space flight and our rockets that go up, every week by spacex, blue origin and by nasa. our launches act something we look forward to longer discussion on in the future. we know it's critical to work together on international spectrum issues. one, to help achieve global harmonization, two to make sure we're in the best position to capitalize on what the next generation has to offer and to

insert timely commercialization of products for the u.s. market. ms. stancavage, why is it important to the u.s. economic and security interests to play a leadership role in engaging the international community in spectrum policy? >> thank you for the question, congressman soto. it is absolutely critical. as i described, we have to be early in the process to make sure we have the components around it so that we're able to intercept the product and investment cycle to make sure there is timely access for licensed and unlicensed technologies. when the u.s. does act quickly, what you see is the bands the u.s. selects. we do have the equipment to support those, and that we're able to provide that equipment, and we're then able to capitalize on the economies of scale when other countries do as well. so rather waiting at the back of the queue we're at the front of the queue and we're able to make sure we have the equipment and

we have it in a more cost-effective manner. >> like in so many issues critical for america to lead, and i appreciate that. mr. bergmann, much of the mid-spectrum is occupied by federal government agencies, a sensitive area where we have to have careful balance. any recommendations on how to determine what spectrum the government needs and what can be reallocated? >> absolutely. thank you for the question. you are absolutely right the federal government is overweighted. there are important missions there. the key is to be more efficient with the spectrum we use. new generation that is are more efficient. we've increased efficiency by 42 times in the last ten years. the same incentives don't always exist so we need to make them more efficient and reallocate spectrum for commercial use. >> and that's why we're here

today. >> the gentleman's time has expired. the chair recognizes mr. long for five minutes. >> all right, folks, we're about to begin the auction. hey, hey, a beautiful day for the auction. it never rains. always a cool breeze and about 42 degrees. happy to have here today selling the 2.5 gigahertz band and we've had your credit preapproved and everything so everyone is free to bid at will. $25 billion here. $15? $10? $10 billion? 2.5 gigahertz -- come on now. all right, $6 billion -- [ auctioneer call ] sold at $13 billion to chairman doyle. $13 billion. sir, if you will pay your bill at the door out there before you

leave, that would be greatly appreciated. and, folks, i have a 31 -- had a 31-year career as an auctioneer before coming to congress and so i know a little bit about auctions and that is the place that things happen. and it's transparent, fair, and all equal to everyone. everyone is free to bid. it benefits the american taxpayer and the federal government and has the potential to raise significant funds, as you just witnessed, paying $13 billion for that band to the u.s. treasury and for the congressional priorities in places like my district in southwest missouri. it's important for the fcc auction authority to be extended with language requiring some auctions even for a short term. now switching gears, ms. brown, i would like to ask you the fcc is required to auction spectrum

in the lower three gigahertz band in the next seven years as ntia looks at federal systems or define a technical solution to sharing. what is the viability and the visibility for spectrum assignments and their use and how important ntia gets this information? >> thank you for the question. it is critically important that ntia get the information about federal use in that band because three gigahertz is the most important 5g band not just in the united states but the world because it can get to work immediately to deliver 5g services. i think one of the things the spectrum innovation act does well is it gives a time line to ntia to make up their minds and

flexibility depending on what they find and whether it can be moved or changed, modified or needs to stay put. so i think congress is on the right track there. >> thank you. and i'll go to ms. stancavage next. the fcc started the spectrum horizons proceeding to seek comment on how to unleash innovation above 95 gigahertz. how do you envision the future of these frequencies being used and how is the rest of the world looking at possible uses for the spectrum? >> thank you for the question, congressman long. it's about the capabilities that are enabled. when you look at 4g, very human centric what you do on your phone. with 5g we added ultra reliable low latency computing and iot.

those extra capabilities allow businesses to get the same types of benefits and now as we move into 6g there is research and development for some of those that would require very, very large bandwidths for things like positioning, very high accuracy positioning and sensor uses. you want to take advantage of the capabilities that the technology brings and what is able to be deployed there. there is interest in a lot of different research areas to look at those high bands. >> i just want to make a note that if this 5.2 brings less than $13 billion they should hire me as their auctioneer next time. i did my 5 1/2 minutes in 2 minutes so i yield back. >> i thank the gentleman -- i need an installment plan. the chair recognizes mr.

o'halloran for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i appreciate that. as we consider the future of the nation's spectrum allocation and american leadership in this frontier, i want to recognize that while making more bandwidth is available, it is also critical for closing the digital divide in rural america. the spectrum decisions made -- and i hope we get this done by september, the end of december, the potential to vastly improve connectivity in arizona and across rural america. access to spectrum is a key perk of unlocking the potential of wireless broad band in rural america and indian country broad band is the life blood of the 21st century economy. it is critical to economic development, telehealth, and

education in rural areas. ensuring our rural and travel communities and the providers that serve them and have access to the spectrum resources necessary is essential to closing the digital divide and making sure our rural schools, hospitals and businesses are not left behind. in the past spectrum auctions like the most recent 2.5 gigahertz, the fcc created a tribal priority window so that spectrum could be allocated to ensure eligible tribal governments as well as tribal communications providers. we're able to connect their communities. this presented a landmark opportunity for tribal nations to gain access to spectrum to better serve their communities. mr. guice, i know you are working with tribal nations before and including the indian

community in the southern part of my district. can you discuss what else congress should be considering to make sure tribal communities can get the best wireless services available? >> thank you, congressman o'halloran for the question. what it did give me an awareness of was just how difficult the challenge is of bridging the divide in our tribal communities. what congress can do is what you did, promote the opportunity when spectrum becomes available. make certain there's sufficient time for those tribal communities. we appreciate your leadership on that work. as congress looks at spectrum opportunities, it needs to recognize the sovereignty of our tribal nations, and that means they should have some input into

the destiny over what runs over their lands. that's what the tribal window created and as we move forward on all spectrum bands we think that's a good policy for the fcc to look through. the fcc can look at billing credits and how to reform those to better use lice so the tribal communities can build on their lands where a provider has the area but not the will to build. i look forward to working with your office on these issues. make certain they have affordable access. they are some of the least served in our country. >> in the broad band service more than 20,000 licenses including many entities like wireless internet service

providers and tribes. why so many bidders were able to win the spectrum in the auction? what lessons can we learn from it? and how can we ensure rural providers are meaningfully able to produce and participate in the future auctions? >> thank you for the question. it is critical for small providers to participate in small auctions. as a small provider we have limited resources. i would expect this to be similar for other providers as well where we don't have the resources that larger providers have to participate in auctions on a larger scale as well as larger sizes of spectrum. so, for us having usable spectrum available, that has equipment we can roll out in

those areas. >> the gentleman's time has expired. the chair now recognizes mr. carter for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and i thank all of the witnesses for being here today. ms. brown, i want to start with you, if you will. during the pandemic americans relied on wi-fi for work, school and so many other things, in fact, i was reading a book the other day that said the average teenager was on the internet five hours a day more during the pandemic than they were before. it's unbelievable to me that is true and we're on the internet so much. what i wanted to ask you was unlicensed spectrum plays a role in enabling wi-fi technologies and under the last administration there was an unprecedented amount of

unlicensed spectrum available for commercial use. do you think that will be enough to keep up with the new data rich applications that americans use today? all of us are on the internet. i'm hunkered down now. do you think that will be enough to accommodate all of us? >> well, thank you for the question. over the long term it probably won't be enough. i think for the immediate term industry is already rolling out innovative new technology on the 6 gigahertz band and we're looking forward in a couple of years to a second generation of technology coming into the 6 gigahertz band of technology known as wi-fi 7 will be coming our way in two years' time. but, that said, the -- if demand continues to go up, and we

expect it will with other sorts of technologies, over time we do need to look for other opportunities including perhaps spectrum at the very low end of the 7 gigahertz range or other places where we could expand wi-fi technology. >> okay. let me ask you something else. there's a little known research in the engineering arm that's in boulder, colorado, and i believe this expert facility is being underutilized given the level of expertise it has. i recently introduced a bill, the institute for telecommunications scientist codification act. this bill would give statutory authority to continue its work with the focus on supporting the development of emergency communication and tracking technologies. would you elaborate on what

makes the next generation spectrum technologies? >> yes, thank you. the boulder lab is a national treasure. it is the place where radar was invented in world war ii and in spectrum sciences. i think innovations like your bill that would enable that lab to work on commercial issues around sharing and ajay seven sis would be welcome. it struck me as astonishing we got so far down the road without having facts on the ground what the altimeters could or couldn't do and the degree to which interference might arise. it wasn't actually until this fall that we started seeing facts pop out on that and i note this had week there was an

article about boulder getting involved in actual measurements using dod funding. so, yes, more flexibility and funding for that lab would, i think, really help us with mitigating the kinds of issues we've seen in spectrum allocation. >> thank you, i appreciate that. mr. bergmann, i've had the honor of representing the first district of georgia. it includes the entire coast and a lot of rural areas. getting broad band is really important to my constituents for a number of reasons, work, learning, entertainment, whatever. i understand the future of 5g is more than just mobile but there will be a fixed component to it and that your members will offer broad band services with 5g. what would it mean for rural americans? will they have access for these services?

>> thank you for the focus on fixed wireless for 5g home. it's a key growth area and our companies, national, regional, are invested in it. we see them covering tens of millions of homes today. the key, i think, for this committee is you all made an enormous investment in making sure everyone is connected with the infrastructure legislation. it can play a key role by going faster and providing the full complement this committee is looking for. really key for connecting everyone faster, more cheaply and bring competition to the market. >> thank you, mr. bergmann. i yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. the chair recognizes congresswoman rice for five

minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to thank our colleague mr. bilirakis for raising the issue of the importance of the mou between the ntia and the fcc, and i think it's really important that it be fixed, everyone has acknowledged maybe it's not where it needs to be and i think that's really important. government and industry working together has allowed the u.s. to be the global leader in new and emerging wireless technology. we were the first nation with widespread 4g coverage leading to countless innovations. now with the emergence of 5g and next generation wi-fi capabilities, the u.s. can build on this leadership record, grow our economy and be on the forefront of technical. you mentioned the importance of spectrum management. it seems that recent spectrum

disputes involved parties that questioned the finality of the fcc's decision. how can we ensure they are able to have their voices heard early in the process and at the same time allow fcc to reach a final decision that everyone can count on in making investment and development decisions? >> thank you, congresswoman. it's a great question. as this committee and as the chairman and ranking member have highlighted, reinforcing that interagency process and insisting on it being followed is the best step and the oversight of this committee on this process is extremely helpful in producing that finality. i encourage this committee to stay active on that with members around congress that are quite often approached by private entities and on behalf of some of the federal agencies they regulate to get involved in the

process. it is a difficult one to fix. that said, there is a public process that is run and these entities, these private entities, the government agencies, should all participate fully in bringing those -- that information to the record so we can make an evidence-based decision. i think as ms. brown testified, it's a sad fact that at the end of the process, in fact, after the process was done, that we learned there were these concerns with the altimeters and the c-band. that's just inexcusable. there was an opportunity for a public record and for data to be submitted to take into account those concerns. and so that's sort of how we fix it. we have to insist on not only that public participation but at the end when the decision has been made in coordination with ntia and the fcc to go forward with the spectrum auctions that finality is insisted upon and there's given no quarter for those voices that come in after the fact to try to disrupt it.

>> ms. brown, can you explain how disputes over spectrum delay deployment of new technologies? >> yes. probably the principle case is the spectrum at the top end of the 5 gigahertz band which has lingered now for some years. the fcc a few years ago, a couple years ago decided that some of that spectrum should be made available for wi-fi and cut back the amount of transportation spectrum that continues to be disputed by the industry which would like more spectrum available for communications networking of vehicles on the road, for safety purposes, et cetera. that's a prime case where the

fcc had different visions for the same spectrum. now we're waiting around for a court case that will be resolved soon that will tell us what the future of that band is. and i certainly hope once that is resolved and if it is resolved in the fcc's favor the fcc can promptly go forward with implementing transportation solutions in the spectrum that is left for i.t.s. >> thank you. thank you to all the witnesses and i yield back, mr. chairman. >> the gentle woman yields back. the chair recognizes congresswoman eschew for five minutes. >> thank you for holding this hearing. let me begin by addressing something to mr. bergmann. i thought mr. carter asked you a

very good question and i was very anxious to hear your answer. i didn't hear it. the most recent found that verizon and at&t's 5g speeds in several cities are comparable or even slower than 4g speeds. to make matters worse consumers sometimes have to pay more for 5g by upgrading their device or their plan. i do understand there are reasons speeds aren't optimal yet relative to 5g but this practice of advertising faster speeds and, yes, i did watch the super bowl along with millions of others and one ad after another about complete 5g across the country, all that

advertising and charging for it while delivering lower speeds, it seems like a highly misleading practice. why are americans paying more for slower wireless speeds? and if you could just be -- condense your answer. >> absolutely. thank you for the question, congresswoman. i'm glad to have a chance -- >> thank you. i know it's a tough one, so thank you for saying thank you to a tough question. >> so i would highlight a couple of things. one, we see wireless speeds go up year after year. they're up 85 times. >> 2010 was 12 years ago. so i don't know -- did you -- let me ask this. did you read this article?

are you aware of the article? >> i have not seen the article but know speeds go up and prices continue to go down year after year. we think it's critical consumers have accurate information about what they're purchasing, so i would agree with you about that. we're incredibly excited about the advancements in speed that we see from competition and the increasing value for consumers. >> well, i appreciate your words. they really don't -- you're not answering the question that i pose. there's heavy advertising but what's advertised is not so. it just isn't so. it can be documented that it's not so. and consumers are being told that they -- well, the advertising simply is

misleading. i understand why you don't want to acknowledge it because it's uncomfortable to. i think the problem remains. going to mr. guice, i appreciate your view that congress should ensure spectrum proceeds are obviously used in the public interest. one of the issues i've been on for, oh, my goodness, a decade and a half is nextgen 911. is there anyone on the panel that thinks that 911, nextgen 911 should not be part of the proceeds of future auctions? is there anyone that doesn't think that? you can raise your hand.

this is our public safety system and i think that once and for all we need to address this, whether they are suburban, urban, that we have a solid system for law enforcement, for firefighters. we owe that to the american people. they dial 911. they need someone to answer. i really look forward to making sure that spectrum funds part of those funds actually go to 911. it's music to my ears to hear so many members and witnesses talking about unlicensed. i've been on that for a long time. i'm not going to spend any time on it or ask questions because i just want to highlight that it's a delight everyone knows, especially members, of high value of unlicensed because it

is the innovation platform. >> the gentle lady's time has expired. i thank the gentlelady. you have five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman, mr. ranking member, and our committee members. i will climb up on a soapbox for half a second and then ask some questions dealing with the rollout of c-band and the concerns we saw with that. i think we all understand the stakeholders need to be involved. doing that up on the front end, it just feels like if we're really going to beat our competitors, china, at this game, we have to be better on our game than that. now let me climb off the soapbox and talk about my district just a little bit. i have a very rural district. i like to laugh at my colleagues who say they have rural and would invite them out to utah to see real rural. you have to drive three hours without seeing a structure and that's how my district is.

i have vast amounts of rural parts of utah. the navajo indian reservation. i want to touch on that. the indian tribes have been given priority in the 2.5 gigahertz spectrum rollout. i'm glad. we have to help these good people imagine -- i have some people without running water and electricity let alone broad band and we all know -- and the intention to have the rest of the auction. i'm concerned supply chain issues, there could be a delay of the tribal nations and a delay in the auction. do we expect delays to build out into tribal lands and what challenges do you see? >> thank you, congressman, and you are right the challenges tribes face are unique and incredibly difficult.

2.5 auction is a key part of that and i would encourage the committee to move forward with extending auction authority particularly when you think about deployment challenges, certainly supply chain challenges are felt broadly across the economy, and we encourage the committee to think about things we can do there. and we need to be creative. the funding that this committee made available through the infrastructure act will play a key role focused on tribal areas. we need to think about how to go faster on federal lands, how do we help tribes move more quickly? it really is an all of the above approach for tribal lands. >> yes. could you comment about delaying the auction and if that happens it will expire and what would that do to the whole 5g rollout? >> in my five years we've never had it expire. it's critical we have auction authority as we're heading into auctions because we want bidders to have certainty so they know

they'll be able to use those licenses they are stepping up to invest in. >> so you're telling me don't worry? >> we definitely need to make sure it stands. >> i'm with you on that. let me ask you about national spectrum strategy. is it a good option? if so, how do we -- which agencies and things like that help us? walk us through how we do that successfully. >> absolutely. i think it will play a key role. you've heard today about the challenges of spectrum coordination recently. we need to have agencies coordinating, agencies sharing data and we need the fcc and ntia in front of that and would urge this committee to take an important role, too. you recognize the importance and need to reflect our national priorities. >> can you just touch on balancing commercial and government interests? >> absolutely. particularly when we think of

this key ingredient for 5g, overweighted to government today. the u.s. government is the primary user. we need to find ways to be more efficient and go et those missions done and make more spectrum available. >> the wireless industry we invest tens of billions every year to have new generations of technology to be more efficient. we need to do the same thing on the government side, too. >> thank you. ms. stancavage, as the u.s. prepares for the next radio communication conference, how can congress be supportive? how do we show american leadership? >> thank you for the question, mr. congressman. i think the most important thing is to make sure that the u.s. is

an early actor, we identify early which bands are available and follow through so it's clear where we are going with this and anything congress can do to support in terms of identifying spectrum early, opportunities and making sure it follows through would be welcome. >> the gentleman's time has expired. >> i yield. >> the chair recognizes ms. matsui for five minutes. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. as co-chair of the spectrum caucus along with mr. guthrie, i want to thank you for holding this important hearing. it's a fundamental in maintaining the competitive edge. the satellite broad band is important the federal government is speaking with one voice to move us forward. i have a question recording the

spectrum pipeline. to ensure the united states remains the global pacesetter, a reliable pipeline is needed. we have exciting opportunities coming up in the 2.5 and 3 gigahertz bands. beyond that the future is less clear. i believe the 7 gigahertz band is a meaningful opportunity to keep our pipelines strong. given the amount of federal users we need to proceed carefully with the whole of government approach and that's why i sent a letter to nti administrator davidson yesterday urging him to kmet to finishing the study for 7 gigahertz. can you describe the characteristics of the 7 gigahertz band and how they might be put to use to support commercial operations? >> thank you, congresswoman matsui, and thank you for your leadership on spectrum issues.

you've been a great asset for everybody to have on these issues. what i would say this is another example where mixed access regimes will be beneficial to the outcome. what we learned was based on coordination over a period of years, four to five years of coordination, hearing the agencies out and working through the ntia and fcc interagency process only after that period of hearing folks and taking in their perspective did we get to a situation we could utilize the most of that band. a real need for dod to have its voice heard through the ntia process only by doing that can we really utilize this band to its fullest potential. the lower 7 gigahertz is a real

opportunity for unlicensed but we do see there might be licensed opportunities. only by going in with that open mind for a variety of access regimes can we get the federal agencies to focus on what the realm of the possible is for that band. >> and mr. bergmann, do you have any more comments on that? >> we certainly appreciate your leadership on spectrum issues. thank you for your letter focused on the 7 gigahertz band. we've talked about the importance of mid band and the 7 gigahertz band is a huge band. it's 1,300 megahertz. there are important federal systems there. there are also opportunities to be more efficient in using that spectrum. asking our federal government policymakers to look at how we can make some of that spectrum available.

we know it has been under study since 2019 and there are real opportunities so thank you for your leadership and we look forward to working with you. >> thank you. in september of this year the fcc's auction authority is set to expire. this underpins america's ability to bring new spectrum to market in the race to 5g and beyond. it can and should be bipartisan and with implications for the next 2.5 gigahertz auction it should happen as soon as possible. mr. guice, do you believe -- i believe the question was asked before, do you believe tying auction revenue to investments and things like nextgen 911 would be a useful way to help modernize america's communicationss infrastructure?

>> yes. what we've seen is that auction revenues can be substantial and should be put to use to advance our public interest needs. ng-911 is a critical need. unfortunately that didn't get there. if we need to use auction revenues to do that, let's do that and think about digital equity. >> okay, fine. and mr. bergmann, how can extending auction authority quickly increase the likelihood for successful 2.5 auction? and i think i'm out of time, but maybe you can make a couple comments. >> quickly auctions are the bedrock of our mobile wireless networks including 5g. getting that auction authority is critical. >> thank you. >> the gentlelady's time has expired. the chair recognizes congressman

welch for five minutes. peter, can you hear us? i can see his video, but i don't think he can hear us. >> hi. >> okay. peter, you have five minutes. >> thank you. i am having sketchy in and out internet so if i go off, mr. chairman, you know what to do. >> do you have 5g up there, peter? >> i had a question similar to congresswoman matsui. i wanted to ask mr. guice, do you agree with the proposal to use auction proceeds to fund ng-911 deployment? is there much precedent for allocation proceeds to fund public interest projects like that? >> thank you, congressman welch.

we do support it and think it could be a nice complement to our drive to make certain auction revenues are being used for public interest needs as opposed to flowing into the general treasury and leaving the sector. yes, for sure and there is precedent under first net back in 2012 congress designated revenues to fund that network. >> can you hear us, peter? >> mr. chairman, it's sketchy in and out so i will spare you and yield back. i have confidence you'll handle this on my behalf. >> the gentleman yields back. the chair recognizes congressman cardenas for five minutes.

>> thank you very much, mr. chairman, and ranking member for holding this hearing. it's important for people to understand what we're talking about is quite invisible to the american people but at the same time as you've heard from all these experts today it is incredibly critical for not only the livelihood but the education and the health of people across america. so, with that, i'd like to ask mr. guice, wi-fi is the most heavily used wireless technology in the world and was born in the u.s. consumer schools and businesses rely on it more now than ever before. what actions will congress and the administration take advancing the development of wi-fi here in the united states? >> thank you, congressman cardenas. yes, it's important that we continue to provide spectrum

access opportunities for wi-fi. it is a key connection point, as ms. brown recognized. whether you're on a 5g network or a fixed network, if you're in your home, you are likely going through a wi-fi network. and so making certain there's sufficient spectrum to make that a meaningful connection is important. as i mentioned earlier, i think the 7 gigahertz spectrum offers a real opportunity to build on what we did in 6 gigahertz, and so we look forward to working with you and this committee to make sure that advances. >> speaking of 6 gigahertz in your testimony you support the fcc's recent decision to open up the 5.9 and 6 gigahertz bands for unlicensed use. what's the next spectrum bands that the fcc should consider for unlicensed use? >> thank you. i think that opportunity really is likely in the 7 gigahertz band. it is adjacent to what's going on in 6. it would give us an opportunity

to take the 180 megahertz channel and increase it to 360 megahertz which will be critical for wi-fi 7. so we look forward to that as a real opportunity. >> and what should we expect to do? what should we call on ourselves to do to make sure rural communities and communities of color, tribal lands, et cetera, don't fall behind on current and future wi-fi technologies as they become available? >> it's a great opportunity to look at a mix of policies to promote. we can talk about digital literacy to make certain our low-income and communities of color have the skills necessary and the tools to make the connection to broad band be it wireless or wire line. i think for our tribal communities when we look at

spectrum auctions is a critical step and in recognition of their sovereignty. and i think just making certain we understand where service is and is not is critical. in the 5g space making certain we have crowd source data to ensure the small cells operating in our 5g are delivering 5g technologies are being delivered to our rural and urban corridors so they have opportunities to get that access. >> mr. guice will take a true private-public partnership to make sure we don't leave people behind. >> absolutely. that is critical. they are highly dependent. they don't quite have the lobbying capabilities and so it's incumbent upon members like you to represent those needs.

>> is there a battle of the bands going on when it comes to public safety? i know it was mentioned more than once about the department of defense having a large segment of spectrum within their purview. >> the government needs the spectrum that it needs and we want to be respectful. we do believe there can be a more efficient use of that spectrum. the key is working through a collaborative process with those agencies and the direction of this committee there are certain bands that need to be thought of as coming online for commercialization to further those opportunities. if we approach it in a collaborative spirit and listen to their concerns, i think we have a real opportunity to open up more of this spectrum and accommodate their needs be it licensed or where a government agency needs to stay through sharing, open access spectrum opportunities, all of that needs

to be on the table and they need to feel comfortable coming forward. >> the gentleman's time has expired. >> i yield back. thank you. >> i think we've gone through our committee members and i see mr. joyce waving on. i yield you five minutes, sir. >> thank you, chairman doyle and ranking member latta to wave on to this important communication technology subcommittee hearing. and thanks to alm of the witnesses for appearing with us today. spectrum is vital in ensuring the connectivity for all americans, especially the constituents in my district in pennsylvania. mr. todd, how would you have a national spectrum strategy or certainty about what spectrum bands the fcc intends to auction help increase participation by regional providers like htc?

>> thank you for the question. so for htc, having a plan allows us to better prepare and plan and have an understanding of what spectrum would be april loud to be able to support in the areas we serve. for us it means faster expansion of access to areas that need service. >> and that expansion to access is so important within my district in pennsylvania, my constituents are looking forward to this being present. mr. bergmann, wireless care yes, sir have low, mid and high band spectrum in different ways but recent focus placed on making mid-band spectrum available. how should congress be thinking about these various spectrum bands as we consider how best to keep the pipeline full? >> exactly right. the focus is on mid band spectrum and we would urge this committee to move forward with a series of directed auctions to

create a pipeline of 5g and 6g. there are candidate bands that we talked about a little bit. all of these provide the capacity and coverage to connect everyone and we can continue to lead in innovation. >> mr. todd. how has htc utilized across various bands to serve constituents like mine in rural america, in adams county outside of gettysburg, in fulton, in huntington county? how does htc look to achieve that? >> i can't speak to the areas of pennsylvania you serve, but in rural communities adjacent to our service area we look at additional spectrum as the tool for us to be able to expand access. for us hot spots and mobility are essential.

we have areas today where technicians are unable to connect wirelessly in certain areas using wired fiber but we need mobility to be able to access and communicate back with our offices to ensure efficient operations. it allows us to provide access quicker and to serve more areas. >> fcc chair announced that the fcc will begin an auction of additional bands this summer. what benefits for rural american would these additional auctions make available? >> for us it's consumer choice for additional bands of spectrum to be rolled out. having the availability is essential to achieve what your objectives are. >> again, i would like to thank all the witnesses for your participation here today.

i would like to thank chair doyle for allowing me to wave on to this important hearing. thank you and i yield. >> thank you. the gentleman yields back. i see we do have one more committee member who has come on. we will yield five minutes to congresswoman kelly. >> thank you, chairman doyle. spectrum issues don't often grab headlines. they do as we have seen recently, they suddenly are top of mind in national news. cooperation including a forthcoming update between the fcc will help ensure we don't have public spats around spectrum usage in the future. the plan for 6g begins, it's important the u.s. maintain its leadership position in deploying advanced wireless technologies. the government and the private sector must work closely to

align technical specifications and investments to allow for quick, robust adoption nationwide. ms. stancavage, which spectrum bands might be available to foster u.s. technology leadership. can you walk us through the decisions that need to be made at both international and national levels so a company like intel can begin investing in chips to support future generations of wi-fi and wireless technologies? >> thank you for the question, congresswoman kelly. so when we look through the process, what we look at is to determine a new spectrum -- when a new spectrum band comes online, up need to have the relevant components available as well. you need radios and filters, et cetera. we need to understand the international environment, where markets are, the u.s. has been in the front of that in terms of

identifying spectrum bands. and we're able to take that and determine sort of when we would need to intercept in the product development time line. we completed our analysis and have time lines for a decision that the international community did not make until november of 2019. that gives you a sense of how long it takes to make sure that you have everything in place to support what's going to be needed for global economies of scale and we look forward to making sure the u.s. is able to be in a place to do something similar with respect to 6g. >> thank you. ms. brown, do you have anything to add on to the importance of strong, consistent leadership on spectrum issues to a company like cisco? >> yes, thank you very much.

ms. stancavage spoke about the importance of identifying spectrum bands early so that industry can plan and have equipment available. outside of the itu process, for example, unlicensed spectrum u.s. leadership plays a crucial role, and we have seen in the last two years since the fcc opened up the 6 gigahertz band, again at congress' direction from the mobile now act, that an enormous number of countries are following suit. so this is all due to the fact the fcc was the first mover and people are paying attention and wanting the same kinds of innovation in their economies that we're getting here. so a very important issue to pay attention to, and i thank you for the question. >> it's safe to assume -- thank you -- that consumers and business will only connect more devices and use more data in the future, so we need to prepare now so that our networks can

support this dramatic increase in demand. ms. brown, i understand we will need to make more spectrum available for licensed and unlicensed use to meet these anticipated network demands. what do you believe are the spectrum bands that will need to free up first to allow for the rapid deployment of advanced wireless technologies? >> thank you for the question. the first issue, of course, is getting the 2.5 auction across the finish line, so we need auction reauthorization to get that done. i think the panel here is in agreement that the lower 3 gigahertz band needs to be carefully examined by ntia, the constituent federal agencies, and the fcc to determine what can be done in the lower 3 gigahertz ban. i cannot emphasize enough how important 3 gigahertz spectrum is in 5g networks globally. so anything we can do there is

good. there are other bands in play potentially for the future. mr. bergmann brought up the 4 gigahertz band, used by bands. that is a band being used by 5g in the asia region that might -- we might want to look at that. and seven giga hertz, depending on what is in there, could be -- could be a band of interest as well, either for unlicensed, licensed, or both. >> thank you so much. and my time is up. i yieldback. >> the gentlewoman nields back. mr. bone ar, i can't tell you how happy we are that you joined us at the last-minute and it is my pleasure to yield five minutes to you. >> mr. chairman, you are so kind, that's exactly why i came back, to join you, bring that joy. i didn't think my amendments in the other committee would take so long and cause so much

disruption. we will try not do that. today's hearing is appropriately named the 5g and beyond. as co-chair of the 5g caucus, i think we should be doing more to educate members of congress and staff about the opportunities of future generations of wireless networks. the promises of 5g and successors are not just blazing fast download speeds for urban centers. they will be key players in connecting rural communities like mine, deploying precision agriculture, spurring better telehealth services, and more. this is why i have directed my staff to begin reaching out the stakeholders to ensure that we as a caucus and a congress are continuing to march toward 5g and beyond. it's imperative that we stay on top of these issues, both at home and abroad, and honestly, and personally, whether we understand it or not, it's something that is common and we need it. mr. bergmann, at home a major factor of leadership is ensuring

our pipeline does not run dry after the upcoming 2.5 mega hertz auction. i am sorry i missed milley's auction that went on here. do you have candidates that would be good for future 5g use? secondly, what can congress do to help identify these additional bands. >> thank you for your focus on mid band spectrum. it is critical. the highlight this lower 3 mega hertz band is critical for 5g. this is a place where dozens of countries around the world are already using the spectrum. it is key that we put this to play. i would commend the committee for looking at that there are other bands i would encourage to you look at. the 7 giga hertz band is an enormous band that has government workers, we think there are opportunities to be more efficient and to make some of that band available for commercial licensed use. then we ought to look at what other countries are doing

internationally. the four giga hertz band is being used in masha for 5g services, too. we ought to be looking at each of these candidates, look at what the rest of the world is doing, also leading, just as we did with 600 mega hertz, we can lead here in the u.s. that's critical. i would urge you as you extend auction authority that you do what you have done each time you have extended authority before is which is to instill a defined set of options. >> we need to lead. we can't get out of the way. thank you for looking beyond our borders, leadership in a national standard setting will allow the u.s. to shape 5g policies that benefit american policies and consumers, not bowler the the deployment efforts of our adversaries. ms. stancavage, and ms. brown, both of your organizations have been active in standard setting bodies around the world. how can u.s. participation in

international regulatory processes be improved to help us take the lead for expanding spectrum for 5g and going into 6g? >> thank you for the question congress man walberg. i wanted to differentiate between two types of standards bodies. for instance, 3gpp is stli-led. the intel representatives there, we are very active there and in others. wi-fi lines, high triple e, et cetera. those are industry led. the ones doing the technical innovation and the ones who have the expertise in wireless admonition and how to best increase the technical capabilities of those going forward. in the regulatory kraen we have the international telecommunications union. that's a place where i have gone as a spectrum policy experts. that's the group that's looking more at sort of which spectrum

bands is most applicable, et cetera. in there, it is really important that we, as the u.s., understand where we are going, what we have in the pipeline in the near term, but also over the longer term. so we are able to make those priorities apparent and try to get other countries to coalesce around those. so i did want to differentiate between the two different types of standards bodies. >> thank you. miss brown? >> i don't have much to add to ms. stancavage's excellent summation. i will say that standards internationally play out in a number of venues. and u.s. leadership is critical. for example, in the wi-fi world, we have an industry-led standards group ieee that does most of the standardization work. it turns out one of the key entities that does standards for wi-fi is also the european telecommunication standards

agency, et ceteray, and they are important because a significant part of the world follows their standards. by leading here, leading in ieee, we have also been able to lead in etsy. again, being a first mover is important. >> thank you, yield back. >> gentleman's time has expired. seeing no more members, the chair requests unanimous consent toer in the following records and other information into the record a. letter from a broad range of 20 carriers and members of the wireless ecosystem urging congress to extend the fcc's spectrum auction authority. letter from digital liberty to the house subcommittee on communications and technology. without objection, that is so ordered. i want to thank our witnesses for their participation in today's hearing. i would remind members that pursuant to committee rules, they have ten business days to submit additional questions for the record to be answered by the witnesses who have appeared. and i would ask the witnesses to

please respond promptly to any such questions that you may receive. at this time, the committee is adjourned. [ indistinct chatter ]

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