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advancements in wireless technology and the continued rollout of 5g. this is from the house energy and commerce subcommittee on communications and technology. [inaudible conversations]

good morning, everyone. to give good morning, everybody. to give our digital teams -- [ no audio ] the communications and subcommittee will come to order. today, we are holding a hearing titled 5g and beyond, exploring the next wireless frontier. due to the covid-19 public health emergency, members can participate in today's hearing in person or remotely, via online videoconferencing. in accordance with the updated guidance, issued by the attending physician, member staff and members of the press

present in the hearing room are not required to wear a mask, although you can do so if you want. for members participating remotely, your microphone also be set on mute for the purpose of eliminating inadvertent background noise. members participating remotely will need to unmute your microphone each time you need to speak. once you unmute your microphone, anything said in web ex will be heard over the loud speakers in the committee room and subject to be heard by the live stream and c-span. since members are participating from different locations, all recognition of members such as for questions will be in the order of subcommittee seniority. documents for the record can be sent to joe orlando at the email address we provided to staff. all documents will be entered into the records at the conclusion of the hearing. the chair now recognizes himself -- sir, is that noise in the background?

if someone doesn't have their self muted, please mute your microphones until recognize. the chair recognizes himself for five minutes. welcome, and thank you for being here today. a special welcome to our witnesses and i thank them for their contributions to this discussion. i'm very glad to be hold thing hearing on such an important issue. i am heartened that the communications and sub committee has shown such bipartisan leadership and interest on this issue. spectrum policy is not an issue on the top of the average consumers mind but it plays a significant role in their everyday lives. the average u.s. household has 25 connected devices, smartphone penetration is above 80%, and wireless describe subscriptions outnumber the u.s. population. we use baby monitors and garage door openers, and listen to the

radio and watch tv using our mobile devices and our factory and farms and transportation systems are ever more connected, many of them wirelessly. all of these users are dependant on spectrum and the american economy is dependant on spectrum. spectrum will be necessary for customers regardless whether they have a wired or fixed wireless connection. so it's our job as members of this sub committee to make sure spectrum policy continues to enable these uses and opens new opportunities for the next generation technologies and innovations. fundamentally we need to use our nation's airways as efficiently as possible. with an eye on the expediential

growth of wireless data usage we know more spectrum will need to be available for consumer use. this means the federal government that still holds a majority of this country's spectrum needs to use it more efficiently, and recognizing it as a viable opportunity and work are -- with neighboring spectrum users. for congress we should recognize the spectrum demands of the federal government and give agencies the tools they need in this process. with our commercial spectrum we must achieve a balance of licensed and unlicensed spectrum. it's important to make spectrum available to sustain the deployment of 5g and to pave the way for 6g. at the same time, we need to sustain the explosive traffic we have seen in wi-fi and to fuel the next generation of wi-fi, wi-fi 7. i believe the lower 3 giga hertz ban presents an

enormous opportunity to make the spectrum available. the spectrum innovation act strikes the right balance between federal and incumbent user needs and maximizing spectrum for consumer use. with additional spectrum reallocated to the private sector, new opportunities will arise for additional uses in both licensed and unlicensed spectrum bands. i want to take a moment to thank ranking member latta and his staff for the work they are doing with my team to find a bipartisan path forward for this bill. i am looking forward to moving it with their support. another item that needs swift action by congress is the extension of the fcc's ability to conduct spectrum options. in addition to how spectrum is used we also must look at how the spectrum allocation decisions are made, and congress is taking steps such as with the spectrum coordination act and

ntia and the fcc are acting as well as their announcement on increased cooperation demonstrates, so with ranking member latta, i recently laid out principles that should help guide us. ntia must continue to be recognized throughout the federal government as the entity tasked with balancing the needs and concerns of the federal government. clear rules and expectations for all spectrum users will lead to better outcomes. these roles and processes should be based on science and engineering and lastly the federal government needs to speak with a clear unified voice when making spectrum decisions. recommitting ourselves to these principles will lead to better management policies and ultimately better outcomes for both the federal and nonfederal users of spectrum. while these are weighty topics, it will affect how you are economy can function and grow.

i look forward to hearing the witnesses' expert testimony and the thoughts and concerns of my colleagues. thank you to our panelists. i am now yielding to my friend, ranking member latta, for his opening statement. >> thank you, mr. chairman and friend. thank you for holding today's hearing and for our witnesses being here today. it's great to look out and see your smiling faces. it's wonderful to be all in the same room together. and we are pioneering one of the ways to manage access to the airways. decisions on how best to manage the airways to maximize the potential has led to the growth of wi-fi and multiple generations of mobile technology from 2g to 5g. the app economy and so much more. the benefits these technologying had have been transformational to our economy and our way of

life. a recent report estimates that unlicensed spectrum generates over $95 billion per year in the connective technology market. i am a co-chair of the wi-fi caucus. when wi-fi was first created, nobody predicted the impact it could have on the economy. in the 1990s congress provided the fcc to auction off licenses to use a portion of the airways and since then they have held over 100 auctions to power everything from 3g to the radio. in addition to ushering in a new way to harness the efficiency of the free market the fcc paved a way for new innovative services. by auctioning licenses for certain portions of the airways users have certainty they can invest upwards of tens of billions of dollars in the infrastructure necessary to use those airways without fear of

being interfered with. the last two auctions alone netted over $100 billion for the u.s. treasury, however as more and more of the spectrum is being used it's more complex as commercial uses are introduced the possibility of those case of raising the potential for harmful interference put a spotlight on how the fcc makes such a decision. these concerns are magnified when federal agencies are using a new commercial user. over the years we have seen challenges with how agencies coordinate their plans for introducing new services and studying the potential for harmful interference. as the energy and commerce committee continues to build on its work to improve the process we should be looking at how these decisions will build trust in the engineering and certainty in the licensing process. that, when a decision is made, all users can accept the result and not work to further undermine it.

with the fcc's authority expiring at the end of the fiscal year to issue licenses, it's important congress can submit a review of what has worked and what has not. i look forward to hearing from our witnesses today on the opportunities and challenges that lay ahead for smartly managing our spectrum resources. again, i want to thank our witnesses for being with us. i want to thank my friend, the chairman, for holding this hearing today and i would like to yield the remaining time i have to mr. scalise. >> thank the gentleman for yielding, and thank you, mr. chairman, for hosting this hearing and i appreciate the witnesses being here. when you look over the years, congress, and especially this sub committee and the commerce committee led the way in bringing bipartisan action to assert u.s. global leadership in wireless innovation. it's one of those times when we come together to get good things

done and it starts in this room. under the leadership, the fcc auctioned off several spectrum bands for commercial use leading to great consumer benefit and huge strides in innovation. these auctions have generated private sector investment. with the most recent auction generating more than $80 billion in revenue. by the way that $80.9 billion that was generated far exceeded the congressional budget offices to 25 to $30 billion, and with the private sector stepping up over $80 billion was generated. we want to see that continue. it's critical our nation's spectrum management process work efficiently. and the authority action, it's important to allow the fcc to complete pending auctions as

well -- you look at the 2.5 giga hertz ban, that's one area. also, to continue to give the private sector more opportunities to build out their networks. moving forward it's imperative we do what we can to avoid needless delays in deployment and we allow operators to operate in the spectrum they paid for and to encourage further investments so america can continue to lead the world also also heading off the threat posed by china. this commit hey has taken specific action to address that, as well. soy look forward to hearing from the witnesses and thank you again, mr. chairman. i yield back the balance of my time. >> the gentleman yields back. the chair now recognizes mr. pallone for five minutes for his opening statement. >> thank you chairman doyle. this committee has a long tradition in working together in a bipartisan fashion to lay the

ground work for innovation in this country and this hearing is no exception. we begin today to explore the next frontier of wireless technology and it's important that we lay the foundation that we continue to lead the world in technological advancements. there's no question that our nation's airwaves -- without them, we would not have wireless energy alerts, the app economy, smartphones, messaging services, the internet, and of course drones. just imagine that for a moment so much of this technology we rely on every day simply would not exist. these are remarkable achievements but our past success does not always dictate the present or the future. our nation's global leadership in providing consumers with access to 4g wireless technology and wi-fi does not guarantee we will see the same results in 5g or next generation wireless technology such as 6g and wi-fi 7.

the stakes could not be higher. the united states is falling behind our counterparts across the globe in enhancing our national security capabilities, and since transitioning our airways to allow for new use takes time and we have to start to put the necessary pieces together now so the u.s. can be ready for the wireless technologies of tomorrow. this is especially important because china already reportedly made three times as much mid band spectrum available for 5g compared to the united states. mid band spectrum delivers the best of both worlds when it comes to wireless broad band, faster speeds, less buffering, and access to a signal indoors. these are the airways that will fuel advancements to public safety, manufacturing and supply chain management. it's not just enough to make the airways available for commercial use, but we must place it in the hands of innovators that can put

them to good use for the public's benefit. since 1994, the federal communications commission has accomplished this feat through its spectrum auction program and through innovative, unlicensed spectrum policies. the fcc's auction program has been a success raising $200 billion since its inception and now the fcc spectrum auction authority must be extended or will expire in six months and the fcc may not be able to complete one mid band spectrum auction and auctions that already occurred may not be able to properly close. for these reasons i urge my colleagues to work in a bipartisan way to extend this authority once again. we must do this well before the fcc begins its planned auction of the 2.5 giga hertz ban in july. otherwise, the auction will be disrupted. and congress would also be able to put auction proceeds to good

use by funding priorities like promoting digital equity, next generation 911, the replacement of suspect communications equipment. we must ensure the federal government speaks with one voice when it comes to our airwaves. so this act will clarify how important spectrum auctions are to keep our processes streamlined. i'm most pleased to see new leaders at the national communication administration and the fcc have started to make headway to ensure both agencies speak with one voice. will produce the strategy that i strongly support in creating this position in tia to meet the current and future spectrum demand of consumers and federal agencies alike as we explore the next wireless frontier and i

welcome the panelists and look forward to hearing from them and i will yield back. >> the chair recognizes the ranking member of the full committee for five minutes for her opening statement. >> with that, i immediate back. >> the chair now recognizes mrs. rogers for her opening statement. >> thank you, mr. chairman. before i begin, we just heard from president zelenskyy, a strong and courageous leader for the freedom loving people of ukraine. america must stand and support ukraine's call for freedom and self determination, and that includes countering putin's evil and unjust attacks by ending his ability to use energy to fund this war by flipping the switch on for energy dominance in america and for our allies. this committee has the opportunity to lead and to answer president zelenskyy's call to do more and i continue to urge us to do that. now to the topic of today.

the success of our nation's wireless future, it depends on good management of the spectrum resources. we led in deploying 4g, and today our witnesses and our wireless carriers are working to make sure we lead in fifth generation technology. i just climbed a 180-foot tower with commissioner brandon carr and made the first 5g call in eastern washington. it is going to be a game changer in rural communities. to win the future we must continue to promote innovation and keep up the demands for new and improved wireless technologies. the efficient use will be essential to keep up with the demand for wireless devices. under president trump, over 3400 mega hertz of licensed millimeter wave spectrum, 280 mega hertz of licensed spectrum

in the c band and 100 megahertz in the 3450 to 3550 mega hertz band was made available. this brought in over 100 billion. wireless carriers worked closely with federal incumbents on developing technology in the ban known as the citizens broad band service radio ban, which auctioned licensed spectrum while protecting navy radars using the frequencies. we're starting to see next generation technologies being developed to utilize that spectrum. we must build on this success, providing certainty to both industry and government agencies for spectrum reallocations and auctions is a top priority, and this includes addressing the fcc's expiring auction

authority, to ensure auctions are successful and able to be completed. and making sure that costly fights, like we have had before the fcc and others over c band do not become the norm. without that certainly, we cannot expect industry to invest the billions needed to clear spectrum bands in the future. to maintain u.s. leadership in wireless technology, we need a national spectrum strategy that outlines goals, objectives, and actions that can be taken by federal agencies and industry, to ensure the most effective use of spectrum. even with a national strategy, repurposing spectrum is becoming more difficult. it's crucial the agencies work together.

the timeline, however, does not keep pace with commercial technology. many federal agencies have resorted to public fearmongering rather than work through an established process. during high profile disputes, we have seen agencies, such as the department of transportation, attempt to assert its authority over commercial spectrum bands where their agent cigs do not hold licenses. these costly interagency battles threaten our ability to lead the world in next gen communications. we must have confidence in the established process as we continue to push for stable spectrum pipelines. meanwhile adversaries like china and russia are trying to undermine our leadership. china is trying to use standard setting institutions that set standards that take theirs rules over ours. i strongly support the candidacy

to become the secretary general of the international telecommunications union. doreen is running against a candidate from the russian federation. given recent atrocities by russia it's essential we stand behind doreen and help keep the internet open and safe. i look forward to hearing from all our witnesses. >> jemts -- gentle woman yields back. pursuant to committee rules, all members written's opening statements shall be made part of the record. it gives me great pleasure to introduce our witnesses for today's hearing, starting with greg guice, and vaughn todd, and director of the competitive

carriers association board of directors. jane stanbeich, and scott bergman, senior vice president of regulatory affair ctia. and mary brown. as you know, you all have five minutes for your opening statements. there's a little box in front of you that we have one minute left will turn yellow. and then at the end of five minutes, it will turn red. if you speak longer than that, a trap door opens up under your chair and you're whisked down to the rayburn subway and out of here. so let's try to stay to the five-minute rules and we'll enforce it up here, too. >> you are now recognized for

five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman and ranking members. thank you very much for inviting me to testify here today. my name is greg guice. as members of this committee are well aware, we are in the midst of a connectivity revolution, as more devices and services demand spectrum resources, the policy to satisfy that demand is becoming increasingly challenging. to meet that challenge, we must first use all of the tools in the toolbox to provide access. license, unlicensed, open access, sharing. second, as this committee recognized, we have to insist on expert coordination, led by the fcc. and third, we need to emphasize the public interest first and foremost in our spectrum policy. supporting those structural

components will allow policymakers to address the spectrum needs to secure opportunities for all americans, and to maintain our collective global competitiveness. as the ranking member just noted, demand for connected access means there are few opportunities remaining. everyone has to work to enhance efficient use of spectrum and policymaker also need to focus on issues such as spectrum utilization, and tightening of technical parameters, including receivers. in addition, we need to use all the tools in the toolbox when it comes to access. in 2009 and 2010, when i was honored to serve as counsel on this committee, a number of folks on the committee made the case that we do not need to frame our spectrum policies in terms of a fight between licensed and unlicensed.

they were calling for a mix of access regimes that promote efficiency, and a healthy, vibrant wireless sector. an example of that is the fcc cdrs proceeding. there, the fcc chose a three-tier access regime that balanced the needs of protecting ongoing incumbent use, while creating opportunities for commercial license services, as well as open access spectrum use. as members of this committee, you're also well aware of the importance of spectrum coordination and interagency process. as the chairman rote in the

op-ed last week, it is essential that the coordination process be followed and that it be made clear mtia is the agency that concerns the federal agencies and the agency that is meant to address those concerns. we're also encouraged that the fcc and ntia are working on their spectrum coordination update. they have reestablished high level meetings, they're updating the memorandum on understanding, promoting evidence based spectrum analysis, and developing a national spectrum policy. all of this is critical to restoring our inner agency process. as this committee and the fcc explores new spectrum opportunities, we must ensure that every allocation serves the public interest, convenience, and necessity. this means more than simply making spectrum available for new services. it includes ensuring that members of our society, all members, including rural

communities, low income communities and communities of color, enjoy the benefits of these spectrum technologies as consumers and creators and innovators. simply put, spectrum policies should serve the public interest as congress has directed. i wanted to spend some time this morning discussing access regimes, interagency coordination and the need to focus on public interest. those elements are key to the next phase of exploring the wireless frontier. guy over five opportunities in detail. but just to briefly mention them here in closing so i don't fall through the trap, to advance the public need, congress should renew the fcc's auction authority and should support public interest needs with those auction revenues. the committee should consider how auction revenues could advance public interest objectives, such as digital equities, and that public

knowledge and other public interest groups have joined in coalition to support as part of our airwaves for equity campaign. that doesn't mean ng 911 and other needs can't be satisfied, as well. we hope this committee will encourage the fcc to think about opening up the 12 giga hertz ban for a variety of uses that protect the incumbent satellite opportunities and allow for a greater mixed use of that band. and finally, this committee can support sensing technologies and advances in incumbent informing capabilities that promote sharing, as well. thank you for your consideration. i am sorry to go over time. >> i was going to say, your chair was looking lower as you were speaking. mr. todd, you are recognized for

five minutes. >> chairman doyle, congressman latta, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify. htc is the nation's largest telecommunications cooperative, where our local subscribers are our owners, and we call them our members. for over 70 years, the htc has been the leading coastal communications provider for coastal south carolina. i am excited about the role that wireless plays in our future and htc's efforts to bring the latest communication services to our members throughout our service area, and while the potential of wireless services including 5g and beyond is limitless, the key input needed to make that potential reality is spectrum.

carriers depend on sustainable and predictable access to spectrum. congress can support that all americans have access by extending the fcc spectrum auction authority. second, by bringing additional bands to the market for licensed commercial use. third, making sure that winning auction bidders can swiftly and efficiently put those spectrum resources to use to serve consumers. htc was formed in 195s over 700 employees working to provide the latest services for over 100,000 members. we support local economic development and community and educational programs and even further htc returns excess revenues earned back to our members in the form of capitol credit. currently over $153 million today. we work hard to meet the needs and provide a high level of service to all of our members preserving a geographically and

demographically diverse region that stretches from urban destinations to rural farming. during a pandemic we practiced -- and as a cooperative htc made efforts to make connectivity is part of her covid response is participating in the ebb program now the affordable connectivity program. appreciate the members of committee the committee for creating and maintaining this important connect to the to keep within reach for our communities. htc provides a full range of communication services to our members and balkan activities important tool in our portfolio it depends on our villages to access special resources. wireless services are particularly important to reach a rural area especially when larger companies will not expand to provide service as well as more urban areas where larger companies have a broadcast. spectrum is needed to provide

reliable wireless connectivity. it typically obtained through secondary market transactions. fcc actions allow for things like smaller license apps. this is critical for smaller companies like ours. we continue to bring the latest services to market. means no additional spectrum will be made available in ready me to make sure congress extends the fcc spectrum auction authority. this all makes racial availability and market aiming access to this spectrum would provide increased confidence in our ability to make defeat -- meet the future data needs of our subscribers and enhance our ability to compete. expansion of auction authority will ensure hbc has what they need to participate in the 2.5 gigahertz auction. we strongly encourage congress and the ftc to make a sufficient supply of spectrum to meet

growing wireless demand. anyways that allows smaller carriers to meet. while the fcc should make additional spectrum available for it was use the interagency spectrum court-martial process should be improved. i think numbers of this committee for working to enhance and restore faith in the process including efforts to date the memorandum of understanding. in closing 5g and other next-generation wireless technology will rapidly expand connect to the date and improve many aspects of everyday life to ensure networks can expand and meet the demands of the next wireless frontier with better access to spectrum. thank you and i welcome your questions. >> thank you mr. todd. the chair recognizes ms. stancavage for five minutes. >> members of the subcommittee

thank you for inviting me today to provide a global perspective on spectrum policy to enable 5g next-generation wi-fi in six g.. i'm responsible for global policy efforts related to digital infrastructure including connectivity by g. wi-fi and 68 i, a.b. and i/o g.. including -- i've extensive experience working at the regional and global level in putting the world to radio communication conference. intel is one of three semiconductor manufacturers in the world. intel products are foundational >> intel is one of only three semi conductor manufacturers in the world using advanced nodes. they are foundational to personal, cloud, quantum and high performance computing, avs

and more importantly for today's hearing, 5g and wi-fi. we are a provider for infrastructure and intel is also a leader in bluetooth technology solutions for the pc market. intel plays an active role in the technology life cycle in developing standards to enabling infrastructure and end user devices. with respect to pipeline considerations it's crucial to replenish the pipeline for mobile broadband technologies to meet near term and long term deployment goals for consumers and a wide range of businesses. as fcc chairwoman recently stated for 6g we need to start planning now to identify spectrum in the 7 to 15 gigahertz range. 6g may utilize high bands, bands above 95 gigahertz as well as low bands. replenishing the spectrum

pipelines requires the timely results of study and commercial availability of the spectrum, including bands, for example, such as the lower 3 gigahertz bands. making decisions in a timely manner is crucial to enabling a u.s. leadership role in wireless globally. the fcc's decision to open up the 6 gigahertz for wi-fi has been transformative. with over 60 countries following the u.s. lead. so what is a timely manner? to provide some perspective on this issue, the itu targeted completion of 5g high band spectrum process in november 2019, to enable commercialization, the intel team completed our internal analysis of the status of availability as well as technical characteristics four years prior to that, in september of 2015. the fcc issued its first report in order making high band

spectrum available over three years before the target date. over the next few years other leading countries also took steps on 5g spectrum. as a result of the fcc's early action when the international treaty deliberations occurred much of the high band spectrum was for use at the conference in 2019. for 6g the process is scheduled to be completed in 2030, and looking back at the previous timeline the question i have is do we think the u.s. is on track to make spectrum for 6g.

unless we move rapidly now, moving on to the importance of interagency cooperation, coordination, ntia must be in power to ensure together with the fcc that the nation's spectrum resources are managed in the public interest. additionally extension of the fcc spectrum auction authority will be important for continued u.s. broadband deployment efforts. finally despite the crucial nation of the simi conductors underpinning this technology, america has lost significant -- federal investment is urgently needed to reverse the erosion by leveling the playing field for america's semi conductor industry. congress took the first step by authorizing the america for chips act last year. congress must finish the job by conferencing the bills funding

as soon as possible. this investment will bolster the u.s. capacity that underpins 5g and other digital infrastructure. thank you for holding the hearing on this important topic. we look forward to working with the committee, the fcc, ntia and other federal agencies to ensure the spectrum pipeline continues to flow to support u.s. broadband development and deployment. >> thank you very much. mr. bergmann, you are recognized for five minutes. >> chairman doyle, ranking member latta and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be with you and testify today. i am scott bergmann, and i want to thank you for your focus on creating smart spectrum policies, 5g in our country's future. we have identified specific bands for the fcc to auction. in the 2020 5g act. fueled by a remarkable record of

investment, 5g wireless broadband networks are transforming the way we live and work. 5g is also helping to protect our planet. according to a recent study 5g will put a 20% contribution helping the country to meet our climate change goals. now fixed wireless 5g with its expanded capabilities is helping to bridge the digital divide and bring competitive choice to the home broadband market. every benefit we're experiencing, job creation, smart cities and improvements in health care and our environment, it's predicated on the availability of spectrum. we demand for fixed and mobile 5g services increasing, we need to free up additional spectrum, especially licensed mid band. fcc chair should be commanded for moving quickly on the auction last year as directed by this committee.

after this auction, however, the spectrum pipeline goes empty. and we understand global leadership in wireless goes to spectrum. on five occasions congress has granted broad action authority in all but one a short-term one-year extension, it has used these opportunities to direct auctions of specific bands. ctai urges congress to do the same this year. second, it's in our national interest to identify a spectrum pipeline of bands that can be auctioned for exclusive licensed use. option

authority in the short-term one-year extension. this usage opportunity drax auctions in advance. we the congress to do the same. second it's in our national interest to identify his spectrum pipeline to the option for exclusive licensees. this band is adjacent to the existing full power spectrum offers the ability to provide large channels making it an ideal fit for 5g and congress can streamline this access. we support the spectrum innovation acts to enhance the process to bring back critical ban to off schenn. congress should identify and set clear deadlines at the same time it expands auction authority. congress has long leverage congressionally directed spectrum including deficit

reduction. we deferred to the committee held auction procedure be in welcome the opportunity to collaborate. chair one woman rosenworcel proposed -- and that's an important goal worthy of our support. such an approach would provide a much-needed list touring nations system in wireless leadership. third ctia supports a national spectrum strategy that can help lead the challenge and provide a guidepost for advancing u.s. 5g leadership. finally there is much we can do to revitalize spectrum management for lowliest government spectrum process generally works well it broke down in debate. we commend the recent fcc spectrum court nation initiative as a nation we can must do better. thank you again for the opportunity to testify a net

look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much. thank you cherundolo ranking member >> thank you very much. ms. brown, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you members of the sub committee. my name is mary brown and i am here to provide you with cisco's views on wireless. it's a $49 billion provider of networking equipment, solutions and services located in san josé, california. our customer base spans government and service providers. and wireless offers wi-fi and private 5g solutions. spectrum is vital to all of our customers. thanks to the leadership from congress, the united states finds itself in the enviable position of being a technology leader in both unlicensed and

licensed technology. not only does this mean that u.s. consumers get the best and get it first, but companies domestic and foreign, see the u.s. as a place where advanced technologies are developed and deployed. wi-fi is a prime example of a technology that's benefited from congressional and fcc leadership. and here are three reasons that prove it. annual u.s. revenues for the sale of unlicensed devices are approaching $100 billion annually. while the total economic value of wi-fi in the united states will reach as much as $1.6 trillion by 2025. the dollars are big, but the number of devices is larger. comcast reported last fall that its customers are connecting nearly 1 billion devices on its network alone. in the 2018 mobile now act, congress declared as a matter of federal policy, the fcc must provide for unlicensed spectrum. in 2020, the fcc opened 12

megahertz, paving the way for a new 6 gigahertz generation of wi-fi. as broad band networks increase in speed, so too must wi-fi that operates at the edge. wi-fi is the most widely deployed spectrum technology in american business. 5g will soon become part of that enterprise story. and we are looking forward to enabling a convergence of wi-fi and 5g for our customers. for 6g, we have launched the next g alliance, enabling the u.s. to develop a consensus division on what it hopes 6g will uniquely accomplish. turning to the question of spectrum coordination on government agency disagreements, there is probably one unfortunate issue upon which we can all agree.

we have not found that happy place in spectrum policy decision making, where collaboration reins over confrontation. while my written testimony contains several suggestions, here are two points. first, congress should make clear to ntia, that it wants ntia to be the lead agency on spectrum matters. second, the memorandum of understanding is an important development which should all celebrate, underscoring the importance of agencies working together. kopg has maintained fcc auction authority since 1993 and should renew that authority this year as congress and the fcc continue to work on more spectrum for 5g and ultimately 6g. many continue to think of auctions as simply a budget reconciliation tool. it is true over the decades, auctions have amassed over $175 billion enabling spending on a

variety of important public interest programs. thinking about auctions narrowly, far more important is the economic value measurable in hundreds of billions of dollars of contributions to the gdp, created by the networks that have been built as a result of auctions. auctions serve other important purposes. in 2012, congress authorized the first incentive auction. this new form of auction provided a much-needed tool to the fcc as it began its work of transitioning spectrum allocations from 20th century technologies to 21st century ones. so this remains highly relevant. incentive auction authority is important to help us transition efficiently from old allocations to new ones. ntia needs to be the lead agency on spectrum and policies should

continue to enable the advance of licensed and unlicensed radio technology. thank you for the opportunity to testify. i look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much. we have concluded opening statements. we're now going to move to member questions. each member will have five minutes to ask questions of our answers. and i would ask all my colleagues, whom i love dearly, to adhere to the five-minute rule. i will start by recognizing myself for five minutes and try to set a good example. as we heard from our witnesses today and demonstrated by the strong demand in recent auctions for wireless licenses, mid band spectrum is important for wireless connectivity. our bill seeks to maximize the amount of spectrum available for consumer use in the 3.1 to 3.45 prime mid band spectrum. as an advocate for competitive

spectrum usage, can you discuss how you see the innovation act producing greater utilization of the band? >> yeah, it's a great question. and the act itself sets out there are opportunities for licensing in this band and there are opportunities for sharing. opportunities for sharing. because as we've learned in the cbs process, if we engage with d.o.d., we engage with ntia and the fcc, we can structure a path forward that will result in more spectrum coming online. for utilization. then if we sort of locking ourselves into a camp on the spectrum. >> thank, you mr. bergman, do you believe this legislation could help provide consumers with greater access to 5g and other next generation wireless technologies? >> mister chairman, thank you for the question, thank you for your focus on this legislation. absolutely. for 5g, it's all about mid band and a lower three gigahertz band is absolutely critical band. so we appreciate your leadership with a spectrum innovation act which was speed access to this band. focus on having ntia in the fcc

in the room. it's focused on license spectrum, its focus on a timeline for auction, all critical in moving this internationally harmonize keep in market. >> thank you, so spectrum usage increases, and our airways become more crowded, where increasingly seeing confrontations between incumbents and new users including even new users and the neighboring spectrum bands. so i'm glad to hear the witnesses reinforce the importance of having federal government engage in a coordinated spectrum management process. miss brown, you discuss in your testimony how we manage the impact of new spectrum users on a chase and an incumbent systems. could you expand on that and how that would shape the end user and consumer experience? >> yes. thank you for the question. i think the way in which we've equipped our agencies to resolve new band adjacency's is not lending itself to a successful resolution of issues. at this point. my observation around these

issues, and it goes to c band but also to transportation spectrum innisfil elsewhere. is that the decisions are often challenged by universe user communities who fear interference and who do not perceive that there is a voice in the decision-making process that addresses their concerns from their perspective. so to be clear, these are communities know a lot about their systems but they don't know a lot about spectrum sharing or adjacency's. and so we've seen them striking a confrontational pose instead of a collaborative one. so we need to think about new ways to put, new dynamics into the process that helps build consensus. in my testimony, i suggested a couple of things to explore, one is to put the ntia's boulder lab more front and center in the middle of these issues to help build engineering consensus around with the right answers are. another might be to give the fcc the authority to conduct

independent engineering research, which does not really do today but which other regulators in other parts of the world do. the payouts, of course, is enormous because by sharpening the tools that the regulators have and building consensus, we can reduce the friction, we can get better use out of our airwaves, which is a matter of interest to consumers but it's also a matter of national competitiveness. >> thank you. you know, much of today's discussion has been about domestic spectrum policies but what happens at the international level certainly is going to have a direct impact on what happens here at home. so for this reason, i like to take the opportunity to mention the upcoming leadership elections at the un international telecommunications union. i want to second would ranking member rodgers said, u.s. has nominated a very well qualified candidate, doreen bob didn't martin, and it's important that congress in the administration continue to advocate for her to be the next secretary general

of the body. with these important considerations in mind and recognizing your experience within the international forums, miss dan cabbage, i was hoping to hear how spectrum issues here in the united states shape international conversations and global policies and how that ultimately impacts american consumers and companies. so would you please share your thoughts for us in ten seconds? >> it's absolutely crucial, mister chairman. >> that's a great answer. and with that, i yield back my time and recognize my good friend mr. -- >> i was waiting to see if her chair disappeared. thank you mister chairman. miss bergman, you point out your testimony, the fcc terrell authority and grant in permanence or licenses for the use of spectrum expires on september 30th of this year. however, the fcc retains authority to access spectrum

for lower three gigahertz ban those provided in the infrastructure investment and jobs act. as congress considers whether or how to reauthorize spectrum options authority, what's spectrum bands are in the pipeline and how should congress be thinking about extending the fcc's authority to continue to make spectrum available for commercial use? >> thank you, ranking member for that question. it's on to the most important things for us. which is auctioned authority and having a spectrum pipeline in our 30 years with auction authority, it's never expired before so this is new ground, it's really important that we move forward. and when congress does that, we urge you to consider our spectrum pipeline, there are some really important candidates for us, it's all about mid band spectrum. the lower three gigahertz band, which you mentioned, is absolutely critical, there's work that sorted on that now. but congress can work to advance that, speed access to that band, it's internationally harmonized, it's large channels. there are also other mid bands that are really important as well to.

the seven gigahertz band is subject to focus, it's something that ntia has looked at. we would urge this committee to look at. four gigahertz ban is that's being used internationally, we would urge his committee to look there as well to. delighted to talk to you all about low and high vents as well to put the focus really is on mid man spectrum right now. >> well, thank you. miss brown, as you may know, i am co-chair the wi-fi caucus which is focus on the benefits that unlicensed veteran provide for our economy a new emergency technologies. recently, the fcc mission amount of unlicensed available for wi-fi use. would you speak to how americans use both licensed and unlicensed spectrum, what do you expect to see in terms of demand for both licensed and unlicensed spectrum in the next 5 to 10 years? >> thank you for the question. thank you for the question. the demand for any wireless technology, whether it's wi-fi or 5g, just continues to rise. wi-fi today and unlicensed

spectrum represents more than half of all internet traffic. because we are consuming most wireless traffic and we are indoors, whether at work or at home. that is not to say that 5g is an important, it is vitally important. and we are going to be using a lot more of it in the future. from a consumer perspective, what we are going to see, i think, is more of a convergence of the two ecosystems as we go forward. one example of that would be the fixed 5g offerings that are already in the marketplace. where the traffic is hauled via 5g back to a base station but in the home, the connections to the actual devices are wi-fi. some more examples like that coming and more exam conversions and it's going to be to the benefit of the american consumer. >> thank you very much. mr. todd, h t c communications

are for both rural and earn urban environments are mix of licensed and unlicensed spectrum. would you want to speak about how you identify your spectrum needs and what the 2.5 gigahertz spectrum option would mean for rural provider like htc? >> think you for the question. so for htc, mid-atlantic remains choice, it's critical for us for propagation and speed. it's important for scalability and markets that you mentioned, both rural and urban areas. so consumers will lose out without access to this technology as the increase for broadband continues to grow and those needs occur across our service area. >> thank you. miss stancavage, if i heard you correctly, the u.s. might not be in the league in 60. how do we wake people up around this place to make sure we stay in the top and what would happen if or not in the league in 60? >> thank you for the question. and before i start, i would

like to say, i've been with intel for 20 years and we expected a good reception in ohio, but it is far exceeded that. so many thanks for that on behalf of my colleagues. >> we appreciate it. >> in terms of 6g, it is really important, i describe the five-year gap basically where we had an intercept that with product of 11 plants. and so, when we look out to the 60 horizon, trying to complete that process internationally by 2030. i don't see the urgency that i think we need to have to make sure that we are in a position. so anything we can do to initiate those discussions and make sure they happen in a timely manner would make the u.s. really well placed to make sure that windows discussions happen globally, the u.s. positions are taken into account and we can coalesce countries around our position. >> thank you very much. mister chairman, i yield back. >> thank the gentleman, the

chair now recognizes chairman of the full committee -- >> thank you chairman doyle. our airwaves should be used for advanced funnel ideas like free speech association democracy. authoritarian regimes like those and russia and china are using this resource and said to watch and track their people, spread disinformation, and shutdown free speech and that's why it's as important as ever that the u.s. and like-minded countries meet in the development and deployment of these technologies. so that our public interest principles are at the center of any technological progress. so i want to ask mr. geiss, can you explain expand how we keep the public interest at the forefront of our spectrum policy. ? a to pursue thank you for the qu. it is a critical aspect that we need to pursue. public interest has been the driver underneath our spectrum policy for decades. focusing on ensuring that

communities, that communities of color and others have the opportunity to get connected. and ensuring that that technology is open. that's important. so we all have in a right and an ability to speak on these networks. i think as we look forward to how we do that, making certain that we address digital equity concerns as you mentioned in your opening statement. using auction revenues to advance that. and that does not have to compete with some of the other public interest needs i know. i know many members on this committee are looking at. that >> thank you, and i also wanted to ask miss stancavage, so fcc's recent spectrum coordination initiative helps improve things, and we also look at the legislation of the committee. so my question to you why is

spectrum coordination important globally, and how can we aid in this effort and with having a national spectrum strategy in place help? >> thank you for the question. so in terms of making sure that we are available and participating in those discussions, when you move into a new spectrum bands, the components you need to do that are not readily available. so you need radios, filters, etc. and when you need those components, if the u.s. doesn't have bandwidth and the manufacturers are not aware of those, what ends up happening is other countries can then go into the void and put other bands in higher priority. so if the u.s. does want to be a leader here, early action allows us even signaling ideas of which bans are under consideration. starting that process. that is really helpful for us to be able to identify those

and make sure that that is happening at the international level as well. >> thank you. miss brown, and license use of our airways offers benefits and unlicensed airwaves have helped kids complete their homework as well as make advances in health care and other things. in addition, a recent report found that unlicensed spectrum contributes to over 79 billion dollars per year in economic value. so with these benefits in mind, what is the impact to consumers and innovators if the u.s. fails to free up additional airways for unlicensed use? >> great question thank you for the question. let me elaborate a little bit on what my colleague was saying. consumers benefit when we can lead in spectrum allocation, then we can lead in product development. so for example, in the recent

six gigahertz band, we were the first country to adopt that unlicensed band. we have now over 200 pieces of equipment that have been through this certification process. ranging from television sets, access points, laptops, smartphones, etc. all of that is happening here first. so we get the access to equipment and the innovation, and the innovation of new uses of unlicensed. and as we move forward where expecting to see a lot more deployment of augmented reality and virtual g reality types of devices in that band. because we now have the room to speck truly support those types of technologies. tremendously important thank you. >> thank you i yield back mister chairman. >> the gentleman yields back, the chair now recognizes the ranking member misses cathy

mcmorris-rodgers. >> thank you mister chairman so i had voiced my concerns with the faa circumventing the established management process and pressuring wireless carriers to accept more conditions on the spectrum licenses. so the congress designated the fcc as an expert agency to make spectrum adamant decisions in the public interest. and with the necessary authority to work through these types of concerns. so mr. bergman how can we move forward from this incident. and build trust in this process? >> thank you so much for the question, it is absolutely critical. i think from a nearly universal set of perspectives, we can agree that the process broke down. and, that's really unfortunate because we had the fcc, ntia, who are on the spectrum. they are experts. they plan for an auction, he had wireless carriers invest

tens of billions of dollars. and purchase the rights to use the spectrum. and you had like in the 13th hour rejections. and that's a tremendous challenge and undermines that auction authority and our spectrum framework for making that spectrum available. so i think that some of the things that we think about our improving coordination. and i applaud mr. davidson, and the spectrum coordination initiative. we think that's a positive step. we're encouraged that the coordination has improved. it's gotten much more engineered. or engineering focused. it's important that these are science based decisions. make sure that concerns are raised early. and that we plan for those concerns. one of the things we think about is the whole government approach is key so we don't just identify concerns, we can plan for priorities. we know that 5g is a priority on the plan for that.

and this is all about making sure we receive the benefits of 5g. it's about the 1.5 trillion dollars to the economy. that the 5g stands to bring. so i appreciate that and i appreciate your focus on this issue. >> so over the last couple of years several years the committee is taking action to ensure communications networks are secure. and you can tell you the wireless leadership in the wireless industry. so -- in the united states this has historically we've been a leader in identifying what spectrum is coming down the pipeline. other countries like china seek to disrupt that leadership and offer a different vision with their spectrum interest in mind. what can we do to ensure leadership internationally as well as continued economic growth and innovation bias trusted allies and partners. >> thank you for the question. i think we are already doing it, we need to keep doing more of

it. this hearing is a great example. we need as my colleague have set my colleagues have said, to identify spectrum pipeline. to continue to advance our spectrum allocations in support of our largest technology ecosystems. namely wi-fi and 5g and leading into 6g. and as a result of that by taking action and building consensus here, we have enormous weight when we turn to face the international community. we've seen that in the unlicensed base with his six gigahertz decision that we made in 2020. where we have dozens and dozens of countries that are following the fcc's lead. so moving quickly, and paying attention to it, getting the work done, that's very important. and we need to keep doing more of it. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> so miss stancavage, one of

the major successes under the trump presidency, is to -- how does the u.s. compare to its international counterparts in the terms of spectrum availability, and what areas of the spectrum policy should be thinking about domestically. as well as the international level. >> thank you for the question. i would characterize it as there is a different amount and different use cases, and that's happening -- it's sort of started in some of the leading markets and countries that wanted to make sure they were playing a leadership role moving forward. and the u.s. was the very first in terms of the high band spectrum that we made available. we then saw the international community at the world radio conference come together on which bans were going to be

targeted globally and used. and they are following the u.s. lead. so we are expecting to see a lot more 5g deployment, in countries that have not done that to date. when we look at the bigger picture, we have to also see what continues, like 5g is not a point in time. the standard was created in -- and that will continue to evolve as we move towards six g. as that happens we want to make sure we have spectrum available in the near term. so domestically we should be thinking what can we put into the spectrum pipeline for the near term. and also we should be looking at over the longer term, for 60, how are we going to make sure that we have identified which pieces of spectrum may be viable in the u.s., and which ones we want the international markets. i would say near term, making sure we have the pipeline. >> thank you i've got over i yield back. >> the gentlelady yields back

and the chair recognizes mr. jerry mcnerney for five minutes. >> i am really glad you held this meeting i'd like to thank the witnesses. i co-chair the national wi-fi congress can. and mr. guice, how do we make sure that it is not overlooked and we push for more availability? >> thank you for the question. the main way to do it is to recognize that the successful way to look at our spectrum policy is to make a variety of excess regimes as we're available as we look at spectrum bands. as has been noted here, you have a seven gigahertz band and that is a great opportunity to expand on our unlicensed work. so opening that band up, especially the hundred 25

megahertz. that presents real opportunity to advance, but help us evolve into wi-fi seven. not only -- . and that will be critical. >> thank you. >> you observed that using artificial intelligence in the network fabric was identified by the alliance of the telecommunications industry, and solutions, and this question goes to miss brown, i'm sorry. so this is been identified as heal by the alliance, for an indie street solution for 6g technology. so how does that affect the united states ability to compete with other nations in artificial intelligence? >> thank you for the question. it is widely expected that will be used in the 6g networks to a

far greater amount than it is used today. by leading in six g both in terms of what the vision and the cases are and how that impacts spectrum allocations, and getting that work done. in a prompt way. that is going to ensure that u.s. innovation, will be first in these new six g networks to come. this is another sort of benefit of paying attention to the spectrum allocation process and getting that work done as quickly as possible. thank you. >> thank you. >> and miss stancavage, can ai be used to enhance efficiency? >> thank you for the question. i think that most of the ai that we see right now in terms

of network, is to increase network performance. to make sure that the network is operating as well as it can be. and to continue to improve it. i think as you move forward towards edge computing, and more pushing the compute aspects closer to the end user, we will see increased ai applications and allowing the benefits of the connectivity with the compute and ai to maximize the overall benefits. >> mostly upon the network performance in the i think mostly is going to be on the network performance in the near term but i would not underscore what the applications will enable. when you can look at ai being able to, for instance, look at machine wells on a factory floor to make sure that the weld has been done correctly.

in a way that no person could see the images. so it's the end user applications that ai will encourage when you combine it with the connectivity. but, for the near term, i think it's mostly in term of the network performance and really enhancing that overall performance. >> thank you, that's a viewpoint i haven't thought of which is looking at welding in parts in the factory floor. mr. brown, you discuss how the united states should replenish the spectrum pipeline. and how china has implemented mid band spectrum in the mid upper frequencies on the four gigahertz band. how will american consumers and businesses be affected if other countries continue to innovate their spectrum offerings while the u.s. legs? >> thank you so much for the question. mid band spectrum is key to 5g because it provides the capacity that we need for new

expanded capabilities, higher capacity, lower latency, and what that enables is a variety of benefits. it enables us to address key concerns about the digital divide, with new services like 5g from home. it enables us to address our nations climate change goals as we start to integrate 5g into some of the highest emitting sectors in our economy. it enables us to be the home for innovation, by bringing topics like the one you are raising, ai, or virtual reality and innovation in those industries here to the u.s.. so that's why it's so critical that we have an advance spectrum to enable that continued growth. >> the gentleman's time is expired. >> i yield back. >> chair now recognizes mr. guthrie for five minutes. >> thank you mister chair, appreciate the recognition and appreciate everyone being here today and as you know, we're pushing against the september 30th deadline and i'm the co-chair with miss matsui of the spectrum caucus.

and i believe that making more spectrum available to nonfederal users is critical. especially as 5g and other wild technologies are being deployed. in the united states. my first question, mr. todd, how has making more spectrum available for commercial use bolstered our efforts to close the digital divide? >> thank you for the question. so as a cooperative, htc is focus on serving all of our members equally and providing equal access to service. broadband inspection has allowed us to be able to expand in the markets where larger carriers may not have made broadband available. so we've been able to see firsthand how breaching the digital divide can really affect and improve opportunities in rural communities. we've seen examples of hot spot deployments in community centers, due to covid, be able to allow households without access access to broadband at those locations to be able to

connect. for us, it's all about the availability and usability of the spectrum to be able to make sure that as we continue to expand out, folks have access to as soon as they can to broadband. >> we, from coughs in our area, trying to expand broadband to areas that are underserved as well. is that, is your focus mostly on areas that are underserved by, obviously population areas are gonna be serve by people have the ability to go in and recover their investment. are you focus on areas that are necessarily been able to recover investment? >> yes sir, our expansions been into areas where we've been unable to recover investment through the traditional mechanisms. we participated in different programs, whether it be state, federal funding programs to have access to grants, to expand into those areas, those vehicles have been very beneficial for us. >> okay thanks, let's get to know, think. you and then miss brown, rep matthew and i have been working on legislation to reauthorize

the fcc spectrum auction authority and beyond the three gigahertz band and the two don't five gigahertz band, we are continuing to do our due diligence to determine whether tunnel bands will be right for auction. and so, my question, mrs. brown, one of the benefits for congress preserving its authority to direct the fcc to conduct certain options? >> the congress has played a leadership role for 30 years in identifying spectrum bands and providing direction to the fcc about what should happen next. and that is an invaluable policy direction that really helps drive consensus across the fcc and, ntia and other agencies. i can't stress enough how important it is for you all to help the spectrum community direct the fcc on this

important auction program. we have not had for a long time, auction authority without some direction in terms of what's spectrum should be up next. and i encourage you to do that again this year. >> great, thank you. appreciate that. mr. bergmann, i agree with you about the importance of making spectrum available for exclusive use. particularly the mid band spectrum. one of the early amendment options was a cpr s auction, which as you know, grant priority licenses to commercial users with coordination or the department of defense. we've also seen the three dot for five gigahertz auction that granted flexible use licenses. spectrum coordination is key for successful operations sharing regimes. even address the sparked spectrum act which requires ntia to establish an incumbent -- sharing special routine federal and non federal users. so tonight my question, what

are some lessons learned from the previous auction -- that can we need to take into effect as we look at the next spectrum? >> thank, you congressman guthrie. it is important that we be thinking about all tools that we have available to us to make more spectrum available. and so we appreciate the focus there. i think for us, when we think about spectrum access, it's about certainty. you know our company has made investment of about 30 billion dollars per year in license acts the spectrum and having that certainty is absolutely critical. so we and we look at, you know, different spectrum sparing arrangements, one of the challenges of the cpr s framework is the complexity it's more complex than any other countries has deployed in that sort of critical area. when we think about things like

the power levels can be used. and so, for us, i think the market tells the story. if you look at the cprs auction in comparison to the sea band auction right above it or the three dogs for five fan right below it you see that the market value, that greater certainty that you have exclusive you spectrum. and you know, to a value of a 41. when we are for the mental spectrum, -- >> thank you i think my time is sort of expired so i yield back. i heard him. >> thank you, mr. guthrie. before we go to the next question, i want to recognize former chairman that's just walked into the room. joe barton from the great state of texas. and more importantly, the republican manager of the congressional baseball team. joe, good to see you. >> good morning. >> that's why i love you so much, joe. glad to have you here, mister chairman.

>> [inaudible] >> thank you. miss clark, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you mister chairman i think our ranking member for convening this important hearing. thank you to our witnesses for their testimony and for joining us today. greetings to everyone. as the covid-19 pandemic has laid bare, the need for accessible broadband connectivity in both urban and rural areas is critical for underserved and marginalized populations to state connected to essential online resources like education, remote learning, employment, remote work, health care services, telehealth, and as well as narrowing the digital divide. many in these communities use mobile devices to participate in online activities, such as virtual learning. which often requires high speed network connections that aren't always accessible and or

available. my first question is for miss, excuse me, mister guice. mr. guice you've noted that a primary focus on public interest needs is necessary to fulfilling the growing demand for spectrum resources. when competing ideas for public interests are at play, how can we ensure that spectrum policy decisions made in the public interest do not further entrench inequitable spectrum access for historically underserved communities? >> representative clark, it's a real question, and thank you for leadership in this area. i know that we work together a number of efforts to ensure that these communities get served. it's critical, it's critical that we focus our policies on ensuring that we don't leave folks behind. that we know traditionally get left behind. and so, to advance those initiatives, we've suggested digital literacy as one way to reach those communities, making certain that they have the

skills and the tools necessary to get that access. we're obviously looking at all the money that congress has put forward on a bipartisan basis to drive investment into these lower income communities in our rural and urban areas. as a way to address that. and we're also looking at the fbi -- fcc gave the congress gave the fcc on a bipartisan basis. to look at past digital discrimination and make sure that we bridges gaps. >> quick question, how do we create maintenance of effort? there's oftentimes we do these one shot deals and you know it wanes overtime's. and these committees have been systemically discriminated against. how do we create within the dynamics before us a maintenance of effort? >> that's a great question as well. you know, we've, and one context we have a universal service program that provides continued funding. in this context, we should look

at auction revenues. this is a source of funding that is pretty substantial. where we couldn't tao a foundation with some of these revenues. a portion of it. and say to them, here is your mission, make certain that these communities needs are addressed. make certain that we focus those efforts. so we love to work with their office on trying to bridge that. >> absolutely. and as a follow-up in your testimony you explain that revenue generated from spectrum auctions could support public interest needs. that being said, should we also be looking at how we might, spectrum relocations and auctions themselves be constructed to promote digital inclusion and increase access to the affordability of 5g connectivity for unserved and underserved communities. >> yes, absolutely. i mean that's, that is the -- we need to make certain that we're getting everybody, all americans connected. and figuring out the tools to help them is critical. >> wonderful, i think you.

as the world goes wireless, the uses and demand for wireless connectivity and spectrum continue. to increase rapidly. in recent years, the u.s. has made enormous progress in unleashing spectrum, which has been allocated for both licensed and unlicensed use. miss brown, in your testimony, you stated that the united states finds itself in the inevitable, excuse me, an enviable position of being a technology leader in both unlicensed unlicensed acknowledging. as we replenish spectrum pipeline, it's a critical that we use available spectrum bands as efficiently as possible, recognizing that what considerations should policy recognizing this, what considerations should policy makers take into account when evaluating the best methods for allowing new uses in spectrum band? >> well the short answer that question is yes, we should. and i would point by way of example to the fcc's flexible spectrum licensing program.

which allows operators to continually upgrade and change out the technology that they're using in the license spectrum that they have. that's a huge advantage that the united states has globally, not a regulators do it. and we should encourage it. >> ladies time has expired. china recognizes mr. kinzinger for five minutes. >> thank you mister chairman and i wish i could be there with you all soon. and i appreciate all the witnesses for being here. we can all agree, with most of us, publicly say the united states has a invested interest in being the role leader in 5g tech and service. i think it's also safe to say that the coordination of spectrum policy, which is absolutely vital to the effort to lead in 5g and beyond, has been subpar. don't get me wrong, the fcc's options have been a major success bringing intensive billions in revenue to the federal government and allowing for efficient use of commercial

spectrum. but in the past five or six years alone, we've seen numerous disputes in a government -- industrial and government industry disputes with hamper that effort and there have been embarrassing frankly. what, how can the u.s. be expected to lead when it has to grapple with turf wars in the government and scaremongering from -- all work together to overcome these challenges, reauthorize spectrum, option authorities and unnecessary obstacles to spectrum organization and efficiency. first question, mr. bergmann, with a demand for spectrum reaching an all-time high, what does congress need to do to direct more spectrum towards 5g and 60 and what are the spectrum needs of the industry going to look like for 60? >> thank you so much for the question, congressman. i think i can answer both your question with one answer which is to say, the key is for this

committee to focus on extending the fcc's auction authority with the defiance of the spectrum bands. because that's what's critical for advancing 5g and it's also critical for addressing the coordination issues that you referenced, i mentioned earlier that the fcc and ntia are spectrum regulator experts this committees are expected nations vote and we really look forward to this committee to look lead in terms of defining those auctions and praise interns advantage in terms of moving quickly and also helps reduce some of your back and problems of cornish that we've seen more recent years. adam are you still with us? there he is. well.

adam are you able to hear us? but wonders of modern technology. do you want me to go to the next witness? who is next? >> i am going to recognize -- and then we'll let adam back on. adam are you there? >> yes. if you can hear me i yield back. >> okay the gentleman yields back. and the chair recognizes mr. marc veasey for five minutes. >> thank you very much and as many of you know, like the rest of the country, the dallas area has experienced a huge growth in technology companies and we want to make sure that we are collectively working together to ensure that low income

communities and communities of color across the metroplex as we like to call it, can benefit from some of these opportunities made possible. and as to explore the next wireless frontier. that brings me to my next question and that's for mr. we guice. >> can you elaborate on how using a mix of spectrum regimes, can benefit low income communities and communities of color as new technology and conservatism emerge? >> thank you for the question. a mix of access regime, what does it make sure that entrepreneurs, minority businesses, have the opportunity to explore getting access to spectrum and spectrum technologies on unlicensed networks without a huge upfront payment on acquisition. so it creates those kind of opportunities. in addition the fcc actually has a policy given to it by this congress under section 309,

that it should structure its auctions in a way that encourages minority and women owned businesses to participate. as the excess fc fcc looks at structuring options, we encourage them to think about how the design of that option auction, in terms of spectrum service areas, make hindu that capability or the opportunity for women and minority owned businesses. so we have to push them, we hope that you will push them, but it is that mix of access. entrepreneurs and innovators, and the unlicensed space -- will can obtain without having to go through the spectrum acquisition cost. and should encourage that participation. >> what can congress do to help prioritize that. to make sure that everyone who wants and needs to be connected has equal access to the next generation technology? >> well, congress took a

substantial step in the eye i j. a, and bringing connectivity to these communities. and the ntia as it rolls out the program needs to be rigorous and ensure that states are pursuing those opportunities. and through the mapping and other efforts that they are targeting these communities with those investments. >> miss stancavage i want to ask you question. as government actually works together for deployment, we should be very intentional about advocating in the public and recreating a robust workforce for the pipeline. i want to ask you about saying

about the entail. i'm what initiatives have the intel taken, for the cutting edge technology but also to recruit high school students and college students with diverse backgrounds to join the technology workforce? >> thank you very much for the question congressman. so intel takes workforce development very seriously. we have a variety of programs in ohio for instance, it's part of our initiative there. to make sure we are doing workforce development. that's part of our ohio rollout. but in addition one of my colleagues is very active in a program with ai, that we are making sure that ai for youth is explaining the technology and helping. we have also programs at the community college level that we use, i believe that the first lady biden was at one of the

sites to look at that as well in arizona. to see what we're doing in that perspective as well. so we do have for college students, younger students, and what we're doing with workforce because we see it as absolutely critical to make sure that we are prepared now and over the longer term. >> thank you very much, and with that mister chairman i yield back. >> the gentleman yields back. and now yield five minutes to my fellow suffering pittsburgh pirate fan, mr. bilirakis. >> it's a bright future we have number one team in baseball i guarantee it. okay so, in 2019 ctia showed a five-year spectrum plan.

yeah and i said it was a good idea, to define those goals. since then there have been well publicized incidents instances that have proved that federal agencies are not on the same page when it comes to spectrum strategy unfortunately. and in some ways this harmony is an embarrassment for our functioning government. in my research i found that the country of australia has maintained a five-year spectrum plan since at least 2017. their plan is publicly updated by annually, with their successes, failures and status reports. which are then rolled into an updated five your plan. the question is for mr. we bergmann. what would you say is the status of a unified american spectrum strategy? and what's at minimum, should be included in a u.s. strategy

on spectrum. and should we use australia's spectrum plan as a model? >> thank you congressman. your description of the focus on the spectrum auctions and spectrum planning is critical. i think that's definitely something we can benefit from. and the national spectrum strategy is accumulated to do that, and can plan for auctions and you can make sure that you are taking your most highly valued access. we've talked about advance petra, when we look at the portfolio of advanced spectrum, we see that government is law -- and the d.o.d. has access to two thirds of the spectrum. also looking for allocations between licensed and unlicensed. we have today about 1900 megahertz, of that spectrum unlicensed. anywhere between 270 or 454 licensed spectrum in that

range. so i think it's important to make this kind of strategic decisions so we have enough of the right assets coming to market. i would also encourage this committee again, as our spectrum experts, that you all can help with that spectrum pipeline when you guys consider the fcc's auction authority. and provide some of that direction as well to. >> thank you very much. one issue i have been pounding the desk on, and i'm not going to pound the desk mister chairman, but on getting the law ntia and the fcc to update the memorandum of understanding on spectrum coordination. this committee unanimously passed my bill, the spectrum coordination act, which we do just that and i appreciate that mister chairman. you putting that on the agenda. i would love to see it get on the floor of the house of representatives as soon as possible. prior to our last hearing, these two agencies put out a press release that they would be working to update on the --

on their own. mr. bergmann again, how we received anything on the status of this update, or do we have a timeline for an updated agreement, do we know what they are seeking to address to make this process better? and as a follow-up again, we all know intimately the problems surrounding -- at the last spectrum option auction and licenses. so let's go ahead get that response from you first. . >> but we want ntia to get the lead of that and we appreciate your efforts to move that forward. we think it's critical that all agencies appreciate and recognize goals that you talked about with a national spectrum strategy, so we both have ntia

and fcc leading, and the other agencies thinking about how do we support those goals. and if we get out early we can support that. >> so is there better way to incorporate any federal agencies that share spectrum, or any adjacent spectrum to avoid these blunders without you know having problems. because that's important as well. what do you think? >> i we do have existing processes through inter governmental coordination. and the key is that that broke that process broke down. and we need to have a re-commitment to those coordination policies so those concerns are addressed early. but what is at stake is how quickly can you bring 5g to market? how can we bring 5g home for the digital divide. affecting rural areas, how do we push innovation faster here in the u.s.? so i think it's critical that

we get that spectrum on line in july and definitely encourage this committee through your oversight role to make sure that those agencies are getting that feedback as quickly as possible. >> gentleman your time has expired. >> the chair now recognizes mr. don mceachin for five minutes. >> thank you mister chairman and thank you for convening the hearing. i would like to start off with just noting that when we did the development of broadband services in rural communities, we found it was critical to ensure that we knew what areas were served and what areas were not. and that's why i was privileged to help with the passage of the broadband data act last congress. which was intended to help improve wireline providers, with broadband maps. but you know it's trickier with wireless providers. so how do we make sure that we have an accurate map of which

wireless provider in isn't which area, and why isn't port and get it right? >> thank you congressman for the question, thank you for your leadership on trying to secure support for devices so we can get folks who are in our low income communities connected. we will continue that work. the mapping question is a really good question. when we talk about wireless mapping, it is different and more difficult than a wireline map. unfortunately too often maps relied on sort of the, theoretical propagation characteristics. which leaves a lot of communities unserved but reported as served. as we look at the rollout of 5g, and a small sell technology, that technology that that technology actually relies on, it will be critical that we get that information right. because the opportunities to miss communities in our urban sectors as well as in our rural sector are just vastly

increased. so, let's take a look at the actual technical opportunities but let's make certain that the crowd sourcing of data that we present as an opportunity to challenge those maps are available to consumers as well. so it can't just be a state-led effort. it can't just be a professional effort. we need true crowdsourcing, because the opportunity for people opportunities to basically miss these communities are pretty great. >> okay i have a question again for mr. bergmann, i would like to talk to you again so where do things stand on the effectiveness of fixed wireless. for rural communities. and how do we ensure the spectrum remains available as we move forward with auctions? >> thank you much so so much congressman for the question. as we think about trying to meet our biggest challenges and

connecting 100% of the population. and that is an absolute right for this committee. i think that mobile wireless is particularly well suited to make those connections. and so i would applaud this committee for its focus focus on technological neutrality. and it seems you know we've seen the success of programs like the affordable connectivity program, as others. and we are really excited as we think about, now fixed wireless for home broadband. we see already our nationwide providers, regional providers, connecting tens of millions of homes already and with the right spectrum, they have plans to connect together over 200 million homes. we know that this can be a critical part of the equation it can be deployed quickly, in many cases can be deployed more affordably. and it's going to bring choice

to the home broadband market so we're very excited about 5g home for wireless and appreciate this committee's focus on making sure that we've got the right spectrum to do that. >> thank you sir, i think all the witnesses, mister chairman, i'm going to give you a whole minute back, i yield back. >> thank you mister mceachin, turn out recognizes my good friend dole johnson for five minutes. >> thank you mister chair, mr. todd. as co-chair of the 5g caucus, i'm focused on finding additional spectrum opportunities so that our nations 5g network can be swiftly deployed. i'm pleased that fcc chair rosenworcel -- announced the fcc plans to start an oxen for 2.5 gigahertz band this july. this auction will make more spectrum available for 5g expansion, especially in rural parts of the country. but unfortunately, the fcc's auction authority is set to expire on september 30th.

something like that has never happened since the fcc's auction authority was first and acted in the mid 90s. please walk us through how this looming expiration might impact the preparation of smaller carriers. >> thank you for the question. for a small korean perspective, not continuing auction authority would hinder our participation because we don't have the resources that larger regional national providers have. >> mr. bergmann, recently a technical disagreement in the sea band spectrum made national news. we all heard about it. as spectrum repurposing is becoming more difficult, we need to ensure a spectrum licensing system provides certainty to encourage investment in wireless technology and we need to ensure that federal agencies are communicating collaborating,

and fully cooperating to ensure safety issues are addressed without disrupting the auction process. the sea band spectrum those auctioned is a non federal band, can you explain how the faa and insert itself into the process and whether they had a former role in the reallocation process? >> thank you very much for the question and the focus on the issue. i think we can all agree that the process broke down in the c-band ultimate or discussions, cause unnecessary friction. we saw that when we look at how the rest of the world eases that band. they flee and has both 5g and safe flights. and so i think it's absolutely critical that we learn from the lesson. when we have companies that are willing to invest tens of millions of dollars to -- to bring jobs, it's actually

critical that process happens smoothly and i think the keys are, as you said, making sure that there is early agency input. the fcc and anti-aid to have a process where they do share proposed decisions and circulate those. i think the challenge here is that some of those aviation, so that aviation equipment listens outside of its band. in the 5g world, we stay in our lane, were very focused on providing personal lane. that aviation equip and listens outside of its band and so, when i think about early planning, i think about not just raising concerns but how do we plan for the future so that there are technology upgrades that we have more efficient with a spectrum? >> back to those operative words, cooperate, communicate and collaborate across agencies to make sure we address these questions upfront. mr. bergmann, continuing with you, the fcc was established by congress to be the

authoritative technical expert on spectrum matters. while the faa coldest not love the outcome of that proceeding, would is the long term impact of the public's trust when americans see federal agencies raising last-minute concerns after the auction? once concerns were already addressed, by the so-called expert agencies. i mean, how can the american people trust what we're doing if we miss something this big? >> absolutely agree with you. i think we saw unnecessary friction in the aviation industry for consumers and certainly in the wireless world as well to. we know that every six month delay in 5g cost us 25 billion dollars in the benefits that we hope to achieve permit. so essentially critical that we solve these issues going forward. >> you bet. one last question for you, mister bergmann. all ask you quickly. one of the biggest auction the fcc has ever connect is the

option of this event spectrum, while the first 100 megahertz of the full 200 -- has been made available to remaining hundred 80 megahertz of the spectrum will be made available in phase two of the transition. as congress examines whether and how to extend fcc authority, to issue permits and licenses, will be impacting your industry at the fcc is unable to complete the processing of the face two licenses? >> absolutely. it's, absolutely critical that we bring spectrum that first phase available in july and it's critical that we move forward with phase two as well to. we know that's key to all those benefits that 5g will bring to us. >> okay so your wear of it. thank you. >> gentleman's time has expired. china recognizes mr. soto for five minutes. >> thank you mister chairman, in central florida for the nation americans rely on spectrum for cell service, internet, social media, gps,

various abs from health to music. that's why i was so excited about the 5g rollout. this was a tremendous accomplishment. we know there was balancing that had to happen between both cellular and aviation. and those issues will continue to be resolved. and it's key that we work together, both through cellular and aviation and other areas as we go forward on a c band concerns that have been around for about four years. especially representing central florida tourism capital with so much air traffic. we happen to be able to do this because we work together. in public private partnerships, government as well as private industries. and that's why it's so key for us to do the same thing as we open up new spectrum for auction. which is why we're here today. to make sure we educate the american people on why it's key to extend the fcc's auction authority currently set to expire on september 30th of this year. and what's at stake,

particularly mitt van spectrum which is good signal, has a good signal range, it is better indoors, it helps with increased capacity, faster speeds, latency, so many things that are key to making sure we have the crisp cell phone connection. and so we have to continue this work together as we march towards 6g, you heard, it 6g next. to those of you at home who are just catching up of 5g. artificial intelligence, virtual reality, machine learning another technological advances. 60 will be critical to these for our economy, health care, national security, finance, entertainment, so many other issues. and that was brought up before about the american competes act that ships acts that's included in there. because all of this is together without the supplies for cell phones and so many other technological advances. we will be able to let this happen. i'm hopeful like within from such a law, particularly with the recent budget that this

committee and this congress will come together to pass the america competes act. chips act funding we're excited to make microchips in central florida in neo-city and we're going to keep going forward on that. i'm also concerned about commercial spaceflight and streamlining telecommunications with regard to our rockets that go up. literally every week, multiple times a week, by spacex, blue origin, you will, layup course by nasa. so our launches is something that we look forward to a longer discussion on in the future. before now, we know it's critical for fcc and ntia to work together to develop physicians on international spectrum issues. one, to help achieve global formalization, too, to make sure when the best position to capitalize on with the next generation of wireless technology has to offer. three, to ensure a timely commercialization of products for the u.s. market. miss stancavage, why is it important to the u.s.'s security interest to play a

leadership role in engaging the national community inspector policy? >>, thank you for the question, congressman soto. it is absolutely critical as i described, we have to be early in the process to make sure that we have the components around it. so that we're able to intercept the product and investment cycle to make sure that there is timely access. and that's true for licensed and unlicensed technologies. and when the u.s. does act quickly, what you see is the bands of the u.s. elects, we do have the equipment to support those and then were able to provide that equipment and were than able to capitalize on the economies of scale when other countries do as well. so rather waiting at the back of the queue, where the front of the queue and then we're able to make sure that we have the equipment and we have it at a more cost-effective manner. >> like in so many issues, critical for america to lead and i appreciate that. mr. bergmann, much of the

mid-spectrum is occupied by federal government agencies, obviously this is a sensitive area where we have to have careful balance. you have any recommendations on how we can determine what's spectrum the government needs and will can be reallocated? >> absolutely. thanks for the question the folks on biden spectrum. you're absolutely right. the federal government is overweight and on maiden spectrum portfolio. there are absolutely important missions there. the key is to find ways to be more efficient with the spectrum that we use. in a commercial while this is a two, we have strong incentives to constantly have new generations of technology that are more efficient. spectrum. we've increased our spectrum efficiency by 42 times. in the last ten years. the same infant scent of snow takes the for the federal government. so we need to find a way to make a more efficient so they can do their import missions and we can reallocate spectrum for commercial use. >> time is expired. china recognizes mr. long for five minutes. >> all right, folks, everybody gather out here about a week in the auction, hey hey, beautiful

day production you all know it never rains on a auction there's always a cool breeze and about 40 degrees. but very happy to be have here today selling the two dot five gigahertz band and your all had your credit for your prudent everything so everyone is free to bid. at will. -- ten billion dollars. all right. [inaudible] sold at 13 billion dollars to chairman doyle, 13 billion, so if you will pay the bill at the door either before you leave that will be greatly appreciated. and folks, i have a 31 year, had a 31 year career as an

auctioneer before coming to congress and so i know a little bit about auctions and this is the place that things happen. it's transparent fair and all equal to everyone, everyone's free to bid, auctioneer-ing spectrum benefits the american taxpayer and the federal government, in fact, it has a potential racing evident funds as you just witnessed here with paying 14 billion for the band. to the u.s. treasury and for the congressional priorities such as rural broadband deployment in places like my district in southwest missouri. it's important for the fcc auction authority to be extended with language requiring some fcc auction for a short term. now, switching gears, miss brown, i'd like to ask you upon a-ification of federal agencies the fcc is required to auction spectrum in the lower three gigahertz band within the next seven years. as ntia looks to potentially relocate and combat federal fist systems or to find a

technical solution to sharing. what is the liability and invisibility of the broadband rates for spectrum assignments and their use and how important is it that ntia gets this information? >> thank you for the question, it is critically important and why getting information about federal use in that band because three gigahertz is the most important 5g band not just the united states but in the world. because it can get put to work immediately to deliver 5g services. so i think one of the things that the spectrum innovation act does well is it does give a timeline to ntia an fcc to make up their minds. but it also gives some flexibility in the decision-making depending on what they find the band and whether it can be moved or changed, modified, whether any say put so i think congress is on the right track there.

i will go to miss our stancavage next. the fcc started the spectrum horizons to seek comments, on how to seek or how to unleash above 95 gigahertz. so how is the rest of the world looking at what was possible uses for the spectrum? >> thank you congressman. basically when we look at this it's about the capabilities that are enabled. when you look at 4g, it was very human-centric. and it's what you did on your phone. with 5g, we added a little ultra reliable -- and also massive machine tech communications. those extra capabilities are allowing businesses to get those same types of benefits. now as we move into 6g there is research and development going on, for some of those that

would require very very large band with. very short range. and that would be consistent with those bands. for things like positioning, very high accuracy positioning and sensor uses. so you want to take advantage of the capability that the technology brinks. and what is able to be deployed there. so there is definite interest in a lot of different research areas to look at those high bands. >> thank you and i just like to make a note, that if it brings in less than 13 billion, they should offer me to be there auctioneer. so mister chairman i yield back. >> i thank the gentleman, and i'm going to need an installment plan billy. >> the chair now recognizes mr. chiraz tom o'halleran for five minutes. >> thank you mister chairman and i appreciate that. as we consider the future of the nation spectrum and on

locations, and leadership in this frontier, we have to recognize all making more spectrum available that's important for american leadership, and 5g deployment, it is also critical for closing the digital divide in rural america. the spectrum decisions made, and i hope we get this done by september, law or the end of september. made here in d.c., we can vastly improve connectivity in arizona and across rural america. this is a key part of unlocking the potential of wireless broadband in rural america, indian country, and that's the lifeblood of the 20th century economy. it's critical to economic development, tele-health, education and rural areas and ensuring the tribal communities and the revival that serve them to respect the resources

necessary and that's essential to closing the digital divide. and making sure our rural schools, hospitals and businesses are not left behind. we in the past spectrum options, like the most recent 2.5 gigahertz, the fcc created a tribal priority window. so the spectrum to be allocated to ensure eligible federally recognized tribal governments, as well as tribal communication providers, were able to conduct and connect to their communities. this presented a landmark opportunity for tribal nations to gain access to spectrum, to better serve their communities. mr. guice, i know you are working with tribal nations before and including a rural indian community in part of my district. can you discuss what else we should be considering to make sure that tribal communities can get the best wireless

services possible? >> thank you congressman, thank you for the question. it was an honor to serve -- for the years in which i did that. but it did give me an awareness of, was how difficult the challenge is of bridging the divide in our tribal communities. what congress can do is what you did. promote the opportunity for tribal windows when spectrum becomes available. make certain that there is sufficient time for those tribal communities to apply for that window. so we appreciate your leadership on that. for that work. but as congress looks at spectrum opportunities, it needs to recognize the sovereignty of our travel nations. and that sovereignty means that they should have some input into the destiny of the wireless spectrum that runs over their lands. so that is what the tribal window created and as we move forward on all spectrum bands, we think that is a good policy

for the fcc to look through. in addition the fcc could look at trouble bidding credits and how to better utilize them. and in spectrum license areas that tribal communities can build networks on their lands, where provider has the area but not the will to build. so i look forward to working with your office on this issues on these issues and public knowledge is an advocate for tribal communities to make sure that they have affordable access. because as you know they are some of the least served communities in the country. >> thank you very much, and the fcc's auction for citizens broadband radio service, more than 200 bidders won over the 20,000 licenses. including many entities like wireless internet internet services. so mr. -- why so many bidders were able to win in the auction.

and how can we learn from it. and how quickly ensure that rural providers are able to meaningfully produce and participate in the future options? >> thank you for the question. as a small provider, having access to licenses is critical for providers to be able to participate at auction. as i mentioned earlier, as a small provider we have limited resources. i would expect this to be a similar situation for other providers as well. where we don't have the resources that larger providers have to participate in auctions a larger scale as well as larger sizes a spectrum. so for us, having usable spectrum, that's available and that has equipment that we can roll out, that definitely supports competition in that area. >> thank you. >> the gentleman's time has expired. >> the chair now recognizes mr. carter for five minutes. >> thank you mister chairman,

and thank all of the witnesses for being here today. and miss -- i'd like to start with you. during the pandemic, america relied on wi-fi. for work school and everything. in fact i was reading a book the other day and it said that the average teenager was on the internet five hours a day or more during the pandemic. more than they were before. it's unbelievable that that is true. and we're on the internet so much. but what i wanted to ask you is icy spectrum plays a crucial role, in these technologies, and after the last administration they made an unprecedented amount available for commercial commercial use. will that be enough to keep up with all the new data? that americans used today?

i mean all of us are on the internet. i'm hunkered down now. and using it virtually the and do you think that's going to be enough to. accommodate all of us? >> thank you for the question. over the long term, it probably won't be enough. but i think for the immediate term. industry is already rolling out innovative new technology on the six gigahertz band, and we're looking forward in a couple of years to a second generation of technology coming into that six gigahertz band. a technology known as wi-fi seven. that will be coming our way in about two years time. but that said, if demand continues to go up, and we expect it will with ar, vr, and other technologies. we also need to look for other opportunities. including perhaps, spectrum at

the very low end of the seven gigahertz range, or other places we could expand wi-fi technology. >> okay let me ask you something else. there is a little known engineering arm of the anti i, and we believe that this is being underutilized with the egg the level of expertise it has. so i recently introduced a bill, for the scientists codification act. and this would provide the authority to continue its work. with the focus on establishing a and initiative to support communication and tracking technologies. especially where communications -limited. miss brown, would you elaborate on what makes the people of boulder so uniquely positioned. for the spectrum technology? >> yes thank you and the boulder lab is a national treasure.

it is the place where radar was invented in world war ii. it has a long and distinguished career in spectrum sciences. i think that innovations like your bill, that would enable that lab to work on commercial issues around sharing and adjacency's would be welcome and it struck me as very astonishing that we got so far down the road in sea banned the base without actually having facts on the ground about what the altimeters could or could not do, and the degree to which interference might arise there wasn't actually until this fall that we started seeing facts pop out on that and i noted this week, there was an article in the one of the national my newspapers about boulder getting involved in actual measurements using d.o.d. funding. so yes, more flexibility and more funding for that lab would

i think really help us with mitigating the kinds of issues we've seen in spectrum allocation. >> thank, you miss brown, appreciate that. mr. bergmann, i want to ask you really quickly, i have the honor and privilege of representing the first victim of georgia and. it includes the entire -- but also includes a lot of rural areas. getting broadband to those part of the state is really important to my constituents for a number of reasons. work, learning, entertainment, whatever. understand that future of 5g is more than just mobile but there will be a fixed component to it. that your members will offer home broadband services with 5g. would you tell me what it would mean for rural americans, will they have access to this 5g home broadband services? >> yeah thank you for the focus on fixed wireless for 5g home. it's an absolutely key growth area and our company's national regional are all investing in

it. we see them covering tens of millions of homes today, together, they'll cover over 200 million homes. over the next couple years. the key, i, think for this committee is, you will have just made an enormous investment in making sure that everyone is connected with the 40 billion dollars to the infrastructure legislation. fix world can play a key role there by going faster and providing the full complement of services that this committee is looking for. services can provide 100 megawatts down, 20 megabits up, are really key for connecting everyone, faster, more cheaply and bringing competitive choice of the home robin market. >> thank, you mr. bergmann and thank you mister chair i yield back. >> gentleman yields back. chair recognizes congresswoman rice for five minutes. >> thank, you mister chairman. i just want to thank our colleague mr. bill caracas for the raising important -- between the ntia in the fcc and

i think it's really really important that it be fixed, everyone's acknowledge that maybe it's not where it needs to be. and i think that's really important. government and industry working together has allowed the u.s. to be a global leader in new and emerging wireless technology. we were the first nation with widespread 4g coverage, leading to callous innovations here in the u.s., including the development of the app economy. now with the emergence of 5g annex generation wi-fi capability, the u.s. can build on this leadership record grow our economy and be on the forefront of technological innovation for the good of communities everywhere. mr. guice, you mentioned the importance of import -- it seems that recent spectrum disputes involved parties that questioned the finale of the fcc's decisions.

how can congress ensure that parties with interest in the spectrum band are able to have their voices heard early in the process and at the same time, allow fcc to reach a final decision that everyone can count on in making investment and development decisions? >> thank you so much congresswoman it's a great question. as this committee and as the chairman and ranking member of highlighted, reinforcing that inner agency processes and insisting on it being followed is the best step. and the oversight of this committee, on that process, is extremely helpful and producing the finality. so encourage this committee to stay very active on that with members around congress that are quite often approached by private entities and on behalf of some of the federal agencies that they regulate. to get involved in this process. so it is a difficult one to fix. that said, there is a public process that is run in these and these, these privacies, the

government agencies should all participate fully in bringing those, that information to the records that we can make an evidence based decision. i think as miss brown testified, it's a sad fact that at the end of the process in fact after the process was done, that we learn that there were these concerns with the altimeters and the sea band. that's just inexcusable, there was an opportunity for a public record and for data to be submitted to take into account those concerns. and so that sort of how we fix that, we have to insist on not only that public participation but at the end with decision has been made, in coordination with ntia and the fcc, go for the spectrum auctions. that that finality is insisted upon and that there is given no quarter for those voices that come in after the fact to try to disrupt it. >> miss brown, can you explain how disputes over spectrum delay, deployment of new technologies.

>> probably yes -- probably the principal case of principle delay involves the transportation spectrum -- which has lingered now for some years. the fcc few years ago, couple of years ago, had decided that some of that spectrum should be made available for wi-fi. and cut back the amount of transportation spectrum. that continues to be disputed by the transportation industry which would like more spectrum available for communications and networking of vehicles on the road, for safety purposes, etc. but that's a prime case where the user community and the transportation sector and the fcc had different visions for the same spectrum. so now we're waiting around for cold case that will be resolved soon. that will tell us what the

future of that band is. and i certainly hope that once that is resolved, and if it is resolved in the fcc's favor, that the fcc can probably go forward and d.o.t. can probably go forward with implementing transportation solutions in the spectrum that is left for it s. >> thank you, thank you to all the witnesses and i yield back, mister chairman. >> gentlewoman yields back, chair recognizes congress woman as shoe for five minutes. >> thank you mister chairman for holding this hearing. let me begin by addressing something to mr. bergman. i thought that mr. carter asked you a very good question and i was very anxious to hear your answer. but i didn't hear it. the most recent annual speed

test by a pc mac found that verizon and at&t's five she speeds in several cities or comparable or sometimes even slower than they are 4g speeds. to make matters worse, consumers sometimes have to pay more for 5g by upgrading their device or their plan. now, i do understand that there are reasons that speeds aren't optimal yet. relative to 5g, but this practice of advertising faster speeds and yes i did watch the super bowl along with millions of others. and one ad after another about complete 5g across the country. all that advertising and charging for it while delivering lower speeds. it seems to me like a highly misleading practice to make.

so my question is simple, why are americans more for slower while speeds? >> and if you could just be you know condenser answer. >> absolutely. thank you for the question, congresswoman, i'm glad to have a chance to. >> i know it's a tough one so thank you for saying thank you to a tough question. >> i'd highlight a couple of things. one, we continue to see where the speeds go up here after year. they're up 85 times since 2010, up 360% since thousand 18. >> 2010 was 12 years ago. i don't know, did you let me ask this, did you read this article. nue to go up year after i have not seen that article. but speeds continue to go up and prices continue to go down

your year. so speeds go up and races go down. but we think it's critical that consumers have accurate information about what their purchasing. i agree with you about that. and we're excited about advancements in speed that we see from competition. and the increasing value that we see for consumers. >> yes well, i appreciate your words but they really don't you know you're not answering the question that i posed because there is heavy advertising, but what has been advertised is not so. it just isn't so. so it could be documented that is not so. and consumers are you know, being told that they, you know while the advertising is simply misleading. i understand why you don't want to acknowledge it. because it is uncomfortable to do so. but i think the problem remains. going to mr. guice, i

appreciate your view that congress should ensure that spectrum proceeds are obviously used in the public interest. but one of the issues that i have been on for, oh my goodness a decade and a half, is next generation 9-1-1. is there anyone on the panel that thinks that 9-1-1 next gen 9-1-1, should not be a part of the proceeds of future, auctions? is there anyone who doesn't think that? you could raise your hand. it's just to remind everyone these, this is our public safety system. i think that once and for all, we really need to address this and make sure that every community whether they are

rural, suburban, urban, that we have a solid system for law enforcement, for firefighters. we owe that to the american people. they dial 9-1-1 and they need someone to answer. so i look forward to making sure that spectrum fronts, or part of those funds, they actually go to 9-1-1. it is music to my ears to hear so many members and witnesses talking about unlicensed. i've been on that for a long long time. so i won't spend any time on it or ask questions because i just want to highlight that it is a delight that everyone knows, especially members, of the value of unlicensed. because it is the innovation pot form. >> the gentlelady's time has expired. >> two seconds. >> i think the gentlelady.

>> mr. -- you have some questions? >> it's thank you everyone. and this is about the rollout of sea band and that. and the stakeholders need to be involved think we all know that. but doing out on the front end, it feels like if we're really going to beat our competitors, china, we really have to be better on again than that. now let me climb off the soapbox and talk about my district a bit. i have a rural district. i like to laugh at my colleagues back east and say it's rural. because i invite them out to utah to see real rural. and for my definition of rural is you have to drive three hours without seeing a structure. and that's how my district is. there's rural parts of utah and you have the navajo indian reservation, and i'd like to touch on that for a minute mr. bergmann, because currently the

indian asian has been given priority in the 2.5 rollout. but i'm glad. right we have to help these good people. imagine i have people without water or electricity, never mind broadband and some of my districts. and we all know that my intention is to have the rest of the auction, and we talked about this and how important these options are. but i'm concerned that supply chain issues, that could be a delay abroad. and the trouble nations and then the delay in auctions. mr. bergmann given the supply chain issues, what challenges do you see? >> thank you congressman. you are right. the challenges that troubled nations face are unique and very difficult. i think the options key part of that. so we encourage the committee to move forward with extending auction authority. particularly when you think about deployment challenges.

certainly supply chain challenges. i think there are some things felt broadly across the economy. and encourage the people to do things their. and we need to be creative. the funding that was made available through the infrastructure act, it played a key role in trouble areas. so how do we make sure we go faster on federal lands? how do we make tribal ends more quickly? it really is an approach. >> yes yes, so could you comment about this issue about delaying the auction. and if that happens, what would that do to the whole 5g rollout? >> my 30 years of fcc auction authority, we have never had it expire. it's critical that we have auction authority warmer heading into a set of options because we want the bidders to have certainty, so they will be able to use their licenses. that they're stepping up to invest in. >> so tell me. is here are you saying don't worry? >> we need to make sure that

auction authority is there. >> i'm with you on. that would let me ask you about national spectrum authority. so which agencies and things like that, walk us through how we do that successfully. >> absolutely, i think it will play a key role. you heard today about the challenges of spectrum coordination recently. we need to have, agencies coordination coordinating and sharing data. and we need the fcc and ntia ahead of that. and we would encourage this committee to take an important role in that too because you all recognize the importance of spectrum to make sure that our policies reflect our national priorities. >> can you touch on balancing commercial, versus government interests. >> absolutely when we think about -- spectrum, the key ingredient for 5g. our portfolio of mid band spectrum is weighted towards government today. we know the u.s. government is

the primary user and d.o.d. has access to nearly two thirds of the frequencies. we need to find ways to be more efficient. get those federal government missions done and make 5g more bailable. >> it's amazing you know how you spectrum. >> the wireless industry we invest tens of billions of dollars every year to have new generations of technology be more efficient. we have to make sure we're doing the same thing on the government side to. >> thank you and miss stancavage, as the u.s. prepares for the world radio conference, how can we be supportive? how can we continue to show american leadership? >> thank you for the question mr. congressman. i think the most important thing is to make sure that the u.s. is an early actor. that identified early bans are potentially available. then following through into the commercialization commercialization process. so it's clear where we're going

through this. anything congress can do to support in terms of identifying spectrum early, opportunities, making sure that follows through that would be welcome. >> the gentleman's time has expired. >> thank you i yield mr. chairman. >> the chair now recognizes mrs. doris matsui for five minutes. >> thank you very much mister chairman. as co-chair of the congressional spectrum caucus, i want to thank you for this important hearing. spectrum government is a bipartisan thing, and it's america's competitive edge in the 24 secretary. it's important that the federal government is speaking with one voice move this forward. but i have a question regarding the spectrum pipeline. to ensure that the united states remains a global pay center, and wireless communication technology. a reliable pipeline of spectrum is needed. but we have opportunities

coming up in a 2.5 and three gigahertz bands. beyond that the picture becomes less clear. i believe that the seven gigahertz band presents a meaningful opportunity to keep our pipelines strong. but given the federal users, and the need to -- at the whole government approach. and that's why i said to our will ntia and history yesterday, looking forward to finishing the study of seven higbie hurts. so mr. guice can you talk about the characteristics. and how they could be used to support commercial missions. >> thank you for your leadership on spectrum issues misses doris matsui. this is another --

were mixed outcome -- . what we learned in this is that spectrum coordination over a period of years, 4 to 5 years of coordination and hearing the agencies out and in working through the ntia an fcc inter agency processes and only after that period of hearing folks, and really taking in their perspective to we get to a situation where we could utilize the most of that band. seven gigahertz with their sensitive military systems, and a real need for d.o.d. to have its voice heard through the ntia a process. only by doing that kelly really utilize this band to its fullest potential. like i indicated i think the lower seven gigahertz is a real opportunity for unlicensed. but we do see other might be license opportunities but i think only by going and with that sort of open can we get

the federal agencies to really focus on what the realm of the possible is for the band. >> certainly. and mr. bergmann, do you have any more comments on that? >> thank you, congresswoman, we certainly appreciate your leadership on spectrum issues. thank you for your letter today on focus on the seventh gigahertz band. we've talked a lot about the importance of mid band and the simon gigahertz band is a huge band. it's 1300 hundred megahertz. as you've heard, there are important federal systems there. but there are also opportunities to be more efficient with how we use that spectrum. so we would certainly encourage him to follow your lead and terms of asking our federal government policy makers to look at how we can make some of that spectrum available. we know that spectrum has been under studied since 2019. and there are real opportunities there for license spectrum so, thank you for your leadership on that, we love to

continue working with you to see that included in a spectrum pipeline bill. >> certainly. thank you. and in september of this year, the fcc's auction authority is set to expire. this authority underpins america's ability to really bring new spectrum to market. and saying ahead of the other countries in the race to 5g and beyond. extending this authority can and should be bipartisan, and with implications for the next two dot five gigahertz option, it should happen as soon as possible. mr. guice, do you believe, and this question was asked before, do you believe a high auction -- things like next-gen 9/11 9-1-1 will be a useful way to help modernize america's communication infrastructure. >> yes. over the last decades we've seen is that auction revenues could be substantial and they should be put to use to advance our public interest needs.

angie 9-1-1 is a critical need, congress had looked at providing some of that funding as part of the i-aj. unfortunately that and get their. so we need to use auction are used to get there so -- >> okay, fine. and mr. bergman how can extend the auction authority quickly increases the likelihood for success for 2 to 5 auction? >> and i think i'm out of time but maybe you can make a couple of comments. >> i'd say quickly, auctions have a bedrock of our mobile while it's now works including 5g. and bitters in auctions the to have -- so getting that auction authority accent is really critical. >> general lady's time is expired. gentleman, chair recognizes congressman welch for five minutes. >> peter, can you hear us?

well i can see his video but i don't think he can hear us. >> hi. >> okay, peter, you have five minutes. >> thank you, i am having sketchy in and now internet so if i go off, mister chairman, you know what to do. >> you have 5g up their peter? >> i have questions similar to congressman -- and matsui. i want to ask mr. guice, do you agree agree with chairwoman rosen morsels proposal to use auction proceeds to fund angie 9/11 deployment. is there much president for allocating auction proceeds to fund public interest projects like that? >> thank you, congressman welch, yes we do support it. we think it can be a nice compliment to our drive to make certain that option revenues are being used for public interest needs as opposed to flowing into the general

treasury and leaving the sector. so yes, to angie 9-1-1 for sure. and there is president, back in 2012, congress doesn't need option and used to fund that network. >> we can you hear us, peter? >> yeah, mister chairman, it's cassie in an out so i'm going to spare. you and yield back. have confidence they'll handle this on my behalf. >> okay, gentleman yields back. chair recognizes congressman cardenas for five minutes. >> but thank you very much, mister chairman. and ranking member for holding this very important hearing. i think it's really important

for people to understand that we were talking about is quite invisible to the american people but at the same time, as you've heard from all these experts today, it is incredibly critical towards not only the livelihood and the education in the health of people across america. with that, i'd like to ask the mr. guice. wi-fi is the most heavily used wireless technology in the world and was born in the u.s. consumer schools and businesses rely on it for more now than ever before. what actions can congress and the administration take to continue advancing that element of wi-fi here in the united states? >> thank, you congressman cardenas. yes is important we continue to provide spectrum access opportunities for wi-fi. it is a key connection point, as miss brown recognized, you, no weather on a 5g network or a

fix network. if you're in your home, you're likely going through a wi-fi network. and so making certain that there is sufficient spectrum to make that a meaningful connection is important. as i mentioned earlier, i think the seven gigahertz spectrum offers a real opportunity to build on what we did in six gigahertz. and so we look forward to working with you on this committee to make sure that it advances. >> speaking of 60 hertz, and your testimony, is where the fcc's recent decision to open up the 5.9 and six yards bans for a license used. what's the next bands the fcc should consider for unlicensed use? >> thank, you i think that opportunity really is in likely in the seven gigahertz band. it is adjacent to what's going on in six, it would give us an opportunity to take the 180 megahertz channel and increase it to 360 megahertz which is going to be critical for wi-fi seven. so we look forward to that as a real opportunity.

>> and what should we expect to do, call ourselves to do to make sure that rural communities and communities of color, tribal lands, etc don't fall behind our current and future wi-fi technologies as they become available? >> yeah, it's a great opportunity for this committee to look at a mix of policies to promote, we can talk about digital literacy to make certain that our low income in communities of color have the skills necessary and the tools to make the connection to broadband, be it wireless or wired line. i think for our tribal communities, pursuing the tribal parity windows when we look at spectrum auctions is a critical step. in recognition of their sovereignty. and i think just making certain that we understand where service is and is not available is critical and like i

mentioned the 5g space, making certain that we have crowd source data to ensure that the small cells are operating our 5g are delivering 5g technologies are being delivered to our rural and urban corridors so that those communities that live in those have opportunities to get that access. >> so mr. guice, true public private partnership to make sure that we don't leave people behind. >> absolutely, that is going to be critical. these are quite often communities that are vulnerable and they are highly dependent on government making certain that their needs are represented in policy. they don't quite have the lobbying capabilities that some of our larger companies. and so it's incumbent upon members like you to represent those needs. >> is there a battle of the bands going out there, mr. guice, when it comes to like safety, etc. i know is mentioned more than once about the department of

defense having a large segment of the spectrum within their purview? e do believeso look, the governs the spectrum that the needs and we want to be respectful of that. but we do believe with others on this panel, that there can be more efficient use of that spectrum. the key is going to be working through a collaborative process with those agencies and the direction of this committee that there are certain pencil spectrum that need to be thought of as coming online for commercialization to further those opportunities. but if we approach in a collaborative and cooperative spirit, and really listen to their concerns, i think we have a real opportunity to open up more of the spectrum and to accommodate their needs be a license or where government agencies need to stay through sharing, open access spectrum opportunities, all of that needs to be on the table. and they need to feel comfortable coming forward environment where those interests will be respected. >> gentleman's time has expired. >> thank you mister chairman, i yield back. >> so i think we've gone

through our committee members and i see my good friend and fellow pennsylvanian mr. joyce who is waving on. and i yield you five minutes, sir. >> thank you, chairman doyle. another pennsylvania ranking member lotto for allowing me to waive onto this important communication and technology subcommittee hearing. and thanks to all of the witnesses for appearing with us here today. spectrum is vital in ensuring that connectivity for all americans, especially the constituents in my district in pennsylvania. mr. todd, how would you have a national spectrum strategy or certainty about what spectrum bans the fcc intense auction, help increase participation by regional providers like h g c? >> thank you for the question. so for htc, having a plan allows us to better prepare and plan and have an understanding of what spectrum would be

allowed to be able to support in the areas that we serve. so for, us it means faster expansion of access to areas that need service. >> and that expansion into access is so important within my district in pennsylvania. my constituents are looking forward to this being present. mister bergmann, wireless carriers utilized low, mid and high van spectrum in different ways. but recent focus has been placed on making mid band spectrum available. how should congress be thinking about these various spectrum bands as we consider how best to keep the pipeline full? >> thank you, congressman. that's exactly right. the focus for 5g right now is on mid band spectrum. and we would urge this committee to move forward with series of directed options to create a pipeline of mid band spectrum for 5g and then for 60. there are -- we've talked about a little bit, the lower three gigahertz band,

700 cougars, banned all of these provide the capacity and the coverage that we need to make sure that we connect everyone and that we can continue to lead and innovation. >> mr. todd, how does htc utilize it spectrum across various bands to serve constituents like mine in rural america. in adams county, outside of gettysburg, in bedford, in fulton, and huntington county. how does htc hope to achieve that? >> thank you. for htc, i guess we can't speak to the areas in pennsylvania that you serve but in rural communities that are adjacent in our surface area, we look at additional spectrum as needed tool for us to be able to expand access specifically for us, hotspots and mobility are essential. we have areas today where technicians are unable to connect wirelessly in certain areas, we're using wired fiber facilities to complete orders

but we need new ability to be able to access and communicate back with our offices to ensure efficient operations. so moving forward there, it allows us to be able to provide access quickly more reliable access and to serve more areas. >> fcc chair rosenworcel recently announced the fcc will be -- of additional bands the summer. what's benefits, mr. todd, specifically for rural americans with this additional auctions make available? >> thank you again for us as consumer choice and competition are essential for additional band spectrum to be rolled out in our opinion having availability and capacity for bishop bandwidth is essential to achieve what your objectives are. >> again, i like to thank all the witnesses for your participation here today. i'd like to thank cher doyle for allowing me to waive onto this important hearing. thank you and i yield. >> thank you, gentlemen yields

back. i see we do have one more committee member who's come on. so we will yield five minutes to congresswoman kelly. >> thank you, chairman doyle, for holding this hearing today. spectrum issues are often grab headlines. when they do as we have seen recently they suddenly are top of mind and national news. my hope that the renewed commitment for cooperation including a forthcoming updated -- between ntia in the fcc will help ensure we don't have public spat around spectrum usage in the future. as 5g continues to grow out of planning for 60 and beyond beyond again it's important u.s. maintain its leadership position and deploy advanced wireless technologies. the government and private sector must work closely to align technical specifications investments to have a quick robust adoption nationwide. through these -- in your testimony spoke about

how developers need to know which spectrum bans would be available to foster u.s. acknowledge the leadership. can you walk us through the decisions that need to be made at both the international and national level, so a company like intel can begin investing in ships to support future generations of wi-fi, 5g and successive wireless technologies? >> thank you for the question, congresswoman kelly. so when we look through the process, when we look at is to determine a new, when a new spectrum ban comes online. you need to have the relevant components available as well. so you need to have radio seat have filters, etc. so we try to do is have -- make sure we understand the international environment. we are markets are, typically the u.s. have been in the front of that. in terms of identifying spectrum bands. and then we're able to take that and determine sort of win we would need to intercept in the product development

timeline. when we look back at 5g, we actually completed our analysis and we're starting to intercept product timelines in september of 2015. for a decision that the international community did not make until november of 2019. that gives you a sense of how long it takes to make sure that you have everything in place to support what's going to be needed for global economies of scale. and we look forward to making sure that the u.s. is able to be in a place to do something similar with respect to 60. >> thank you. miss brown, do you have anything to add on to the importance of strong consistent u.s. leadership on spectrum issues to a company like cisco? >> yes, thank you very much. miss stancavage spoke about the importance of identifying spectrum bands early so that industry can plan and have

equipment available outside of the i.t. due process for example. in a license spectrum u.s. leadership plays a crucial role and we have seen in the last two years since the fcc opened up the six gigahertz band, again, congress's direction for the mobile now act. that enormous amount of countries are following suit. so this is all due to the fact that the fcc was the first mover and people are paying attention and warning the same kinds of innovation and their economies that were getting here. so a very important issue to pay attention to and i think for the question. >> it's safe to assume, thank, you that consumers and business will only connect more devices that use more data in the future. so we need to prepare now for that networks can support this dramatic increase in demand. miss brown, i understand we will need to make more spectrum available for license and unlicensed used to meet these

anticipated network demands. what do you believe are the spectrum bands that will need to free up first to allow for the rapid employment of advanced wireless technologies? >> thank you for the question. the first issue, of course, is getting the 2.5 auction across the finish line so we need auction re-authorization to get that done. i think that the panel here is an agreement that the lower three gigahertz band that needs to be carefully examined. by ntia, the constituent federal agencies and the fcc to determine what can be done in the lower three gigahertz band. i cannot emphasize enough how important three gigahertz spectrum is in 5g networks globally. so anything we can do there is good. there are other bands in play for potentially for the future. mr. bergman brought up the four

gigahertz band, that is a band that is being used by 5g and asia region. that might, we might want to look at that. and 70 or hurts, depending on what is in there, could be a band of interest as well. either for a license, license or both. >> thank you so much more time is up, i yield back, thank you mister chair. >> gentlemen healed back. mr. walberg i can tell you how happy we are that you were able to join us here at the last minute and it's my great pleasure to yield five minutes to you. >> mister chairman, you're so kind and that's exactly why came back. to join you, to bring that joy. i don't think my moments of the other committee would take so long and cost so much disruption bubble trying to do that here. today's hearing is appropriately named the 5g and beyond. as co-chair the 5g caucus, i think we should be doing more to educate members of congress and staff about the

opportunities of future generations of wireless networks. the promises of 5g and it successors or not just placing fast download speeds for urban centers. they'll be key players and connecting rural communities like mine. the point person agriculture, spurring better tele-health services and more. this is why of directed my staff to begin reaching out to stakeholders to ensure that we as a caucus and the congress are continuing to march towards 5g and beyond. it's imperative that we stay on top of these issues both at home and abroad and honestly and personally whether we understand or not, is something that is coming and we need it. mr. bergman, at-home a major factor of wireless leadership is ensuring that our spectrum pipeline does not run dry after the upcoming 2.5 gigahertz auction. and i'm sorry i missed belize auction that went on here. have you identified spectrum bands that would be good

candidates for future 5g uses and secondly, what can congress do to help identify these additional bands? >> thank you very focused on the ban spectrum. it's absolutely critical. i would highlight the lower three gigahertz band as absolutely critical for 5g. this is a place where dozens of country or around the world are using the spectrum. so it's really key that we put this to play and i would certainly commend this committee to look at that. there are a couple of other bands that i would casual to look at as well to that the seven gigahertz band is an enormous band, has federal users in a today. with important missions, but we think there are opportunities to be more efficiently so that band and to make some of that band available for commercial license use. and then we ought to look at what other countries are -- the fork hurts band is also being used in asia. for 5g services as well to so we should be looking at each of these different candidates. looking with the rest the world is doing and then also leading as well to.

just as we did was to commit a hertz we can lead an event here in the u.s.. that's critical, we would encourage you all as you think about extending auction authority to make sure that you all to would congress has done each time its accent authority before, which is to set a defined set of options. >> we do need to lead. we can't, we can just get out of the way. we need to lead. and thank you for looking beyond our borders, leadership international standard setting will allow the u.s. to shape 5g policies that benefit american companies and consumers. not bolstered a deployment efforts of our adversaries. miss stancavage and miss brown, both of your organizations have been very active in standard setting bodies around the world. can, how can u.s. participation in international regulatorily processes we improve to help us take the lead in expanded spectrum for 5g and going to 60? >> thank you for the question,

congressman walberg. so i want to first to differentiate between two types of standards bodies. for instance, 3g ppe's industry led, the intel representatives there, we are very active there and and others, wi-fi alliance, etc. those are industry led. and we look at those, we send our technical experts. the ones for doing the technical innovation in the ones who are have the expertise in wireless networks and sort of how to best increase the technical capabilities of those going forward. in the regulatory arena, we have the international telecommunications union. and that's a place that i have gone as a spectrum policy expert. and so, that's the group that's looking more at sort of wish spectrum bands or move supply kabul, etc. and there, it's really important that we as the u.s. understand we are we are going, what we have in the pipeline in the near term but also over the longer term.

so we're able to make those priorities apparent and try to get other countries to coalesce around those. so i do want to differentiate between the two different types of standards body. >> thank you, miss brown? >> i don't have much to add to miss stancavage excellent summation. i will say that standards internationally play out in a number of venues. and u.s. leadership is critical. for example, in the wi-fi world, we have an industry let sanders group, i triple eat that as most of the sterilization work. but it turns, out one of the key entities that does standards for wi-fi is also the european telecommunications sanders agencies. etsy. and they are important because significant part of the world falls are standards. so by leading here, by leading in eye trouble he, we've also been able sleet and at sea. so again, being the first mover is very important.

>> gentleman's time has expired. seeing no more members, the chair request unanimous consent to enter the following records and other information into the record. a letter from a broad range of 20 carriers and members of the wireless ecosystem urging congress to extend the fcc spectrum auction authority. letter from digital liberty to the house subcommittee on communications and technology without objection, that is so ordered. i want to thank our witnesses for their participation in today's hearing. i would remind members that pursuing committee rules, they have ten business days to submit additional questions for the record to be answered by the witnesses who have appeared and i would ask the witnesses to please respond promptly to any such questions that you may receive. at this time, the committee is adjourned.

general mark milley testified on the president's 2023 defense budget request. live at 9:30 am eastern on c-span 3. online at c-span.org. or on our free video app, c-span now.

russia presents the most immediate nuclear threat to the u.s. while discussing the russian invasion of ukraine. other topics included iran, the withdrawal from afghanistan and china's influence in the middle east and africa.