app, c-span now or online at c-span.org. >> washington journal continues. host: peniel joseph is joining us, the director for the center for studies of race and democracy at the university of texas. he is the author of the third he is the director for the center of study of race and

democracy at the university of texas austin he is also the author of the third reconstruction, america struggle for racial justice and the 21st century mr. joseph, what happened on juneteenth the odds that came out nice >> juneteenth is the day in 1865 in galveston, texas, the community of black people and in all of texas are going to hear the news of order number three, which is really three parts one had racial slavery is over and now african americans should do work contacts on the plantations or wherever they are to, to remain at the places they are and three to not go to the military encampment really, black people listened to the first part it is less of a

story of the 200 thousands blacks in texas and toiling on foundations. many of whom were in places like louisiana during the civil war as places in the south fell and the last battle of the civil war was outside of brownsville, texas in may of 1865 so the way we properly tell the story, that this empowers the black people they finally heard the news, there is a more january -- 1863 frayed lap people, it is an order that impacts the confederacy there is no general emancipation where most black people are. there are black people who escape from southern lines and become what the lincoln

administration calls contraband and, provide information and really vital resources to the military victory alongside over 180,000 black men and some of whom served as nurses and other things on the frontlines juneteenth becomes a second american founding, it is where the country starts to become the multi racial democracy that we are today it really sets up a new origin story of democracy 1776, thomas jefferson, juneteenth is really the answer to what fred douglas had questioned in 1862 what is the 4th of july? how could you have an independence holiday durham the super exploitation of black folks the assault, rape, murder, the building of capitalism on

the backs of black people that occurred during the period from 1776 to 1865 >> what happens after 1863 that leads up to order number three in 1865 >> it is really the civil war, there is no ending of racial slavery, technically the end of racial slavery in the united states is the first week of december 1865 with the ratification of the 13th amendment, which ends racial slavery, except in instances of punishment we end racial slavery but very soon after we start off the system and start up the system that is going to lead to mass incarceration in the 20th and 21st century we there was no, that is what is so interesting about american history is that the civil war,

which is a war that people did not want to talk about or call it a war between states it is a war about the emancipation of slavery that is the key to the whole thing the only way emancipation could happen is through the other defeats and complete surrender of the confederacy that is what happens in 1863 and 1865 obviously, at the courthouse virginia violently surrenders to ulysses s grant that is a very pivotal period this period of 1865 in june at the time, now we know how this story played out, but at the time, although lincoln had been assassinated in april people are unsure of what is going to happen right? there are republicans lead in

congress led by thaddeus stephens who want to distribute land for the newly freed women and men who want to punish the south, who want to imprison confederate traders they committed treason against the union all of that does not happen, but at the time it is a liminal space it is liminal, it is a space where anything is possible for a few years that is actually going to be true because of the rise of black elected officials, black wealth, black citizenship, and dignity at least in archipelagos afraid of all along the former confederacy along a renewed united states south >> when was juneteenth first celebrated, and how? >> it was first celebrated by the next year and galveston in

1866. in other parts of texas, it is going to be celebrated as an emancipation day with food, parades, barr because there is a tradition of having ride colored food that is connected to west african folk ways. red is a color that speaks of the resilience of black people warren in slavery. we think about the first celebration, the first celebration comes the next year and in subsequent years. in places like east texas and houston, black people are going to get together, freed black people and by what is now known as emancipation parties. so they can celebrate juneteenth. >> what is the significance of it being recognized as a

federal holiday today? this monday, it fell on the sunday yesterday. this is the first year. >> it is extraordinarily significant both on its own and because of what is happening presently in our country they ziglar significance is the only american holiday that recognizes racial slavery the fact that racial slavery is key to the united states and american capitalism, american democracy the wealth that was created here, also, systems of inequality and systems of liberation that come out of that period of slavery that, on its own, is this massively important recognition but against the backdrop of 2020 and the murder of george floyd, breonna taylor. the protests for black lives and now with the january 6th hearings and also the anti

critical race theory legislation that successfully banned the teaching of really the history behind juneteenth. it's more important than ever that we actually have this federal recognition that enforces and really compels, inspires millions of people to reckon with the legacy of juneteenth. the legacy of racial slavery and the afterlife of racial slavery in our own time. which we've all experience especially in the last two years. i think in the last two years since may 25th of 2020 and the death of george floyd. the whole country and really parts of the world have experienced this reckoning with racial slavery and systemic racism that is absolutely central to juneteenth. >> i want to invite urge viewers to join on this conversation with the history

and significance of the federal holiday of juneteenth. and for those celebrations as well, tell us how you celebrate. the divided lines regionally. eastern central for the country who lived there to a 2748 8000 mountain pacific two 027488001. i want to show for our viewers what president biden had to say last year before he made it a federal holiday. >> this is a really, really, really important moment in history. by making juneteenth a federal holiday, all americans can feel the power of the stay and learn from our history. celebrates progress and grapple with the distance we've come. but the distance we have to travel. i said a few weeks ago, marking the 100th anniversary of the tulsa race massacre, great nations don't ignore the most

painful moments. great nations don't ignore their most painful moments. they don't ignore those moments of the past, they embrace them. great nations don't walk away. we come to terms with the mistakes we've made. and remembering those moments, we begin to heal. and grow stronger. the truth is, it's not simply not enough just to commemorate juneteenth. after all, the emancipation of enslaved black americans didn't mark the end of america's -- promised to deliver on equality. it only marked the beginning. >> when you listen to the president there, what's stands out to you? >> i think the line about great nations confronting the most painful part their history is very, very important. i think about germany and it's

awful history of genocide against jews. during world war ii. and the fact that what they've done is really confront that legacy, they've done reparations, they've done the exact opposite of what we've done vis-à-vis the civil war. they don't have monuments to nazi's all around their built environment. quite the opposite but they also don't try to a race and a face what happened. they try to really confront what happened, recognize the wrong. both politically but also their moral wrong and vowed to never let that happen again and do better. and so in a lot of ways, the reason why juneteenth is so important is that we still live in a country that acts as of slavery, racial slavery, never happened. that the cast system, the racial qasem, the hierarchy that slavery creates an embeds

in embeds never existed. and also -- politics of dehumanization and by people that allowed slavery to persist did not exist. so we live in a country that is to use to embracing big lies, it's not just the big lie of former president donald trump and the gop of the 24 century but it's really the big lie of american democracy vis-à-vis racial slavery. there is no united states of america without the backbreaking labor that black people did and also the fact that black bodies were monetized by wall street. they were monetized in the caribbean. they were monetized all throughout the united states and globally. so unless we can admit that and really we need to teach that, that was part of the lesson of the 1619 project. this idea of a new origin

story. partially that was embraced, partially that inspired a huge, huge backlash that still wants us to be afraid of this history and it's really by being afraid of that history and erasing that history that we find ourselves in the political and racial divisions that we continue to have and they continue to persist. across time and space seemingly in america. >> in a in texas, you're up first year for peniel joseph. good morning to you. >> good morning and thank you for this because yesterday i wanted to talk about juneteenth and it just didn't happen. i'm 73 years old, i grew up in east texas. east texas was one of those, and also texas, was one of those places where juneteenth was celebrated. the state of texas -- was going out of business.

i mean, they were getting ready to be bankrupt because of slavery. excuse me. but the two year is going on, blacks couldn't get out, negros couldn't get out of texas. and then you had resin bowie who came in, jim bowie's brother, they don't know where he came from. but he was going to free states and telling people they had jobs, good jobs in texas. not knowing, because you didn't have a newspaper that was going around saying okay, we're all free. that did not happen. but what we came up with is juneteenth was celebrated with families. they would farmed the land up until 12 noon. go home, take all the kids,

everybody. they had what was for family. and we had, as kids growing up, the best times of our lives. we really didn't celebrate the 4th of july because it wasn't about us. it was juneteenth was about as texans. and when you talk about juneteenth, people talk about juneteenth, they don't really know what's juneteenth really was for blacks in texas. and also share cropping, that's how our land, we own our land for 150 years, we still own it. longview texas and in -- we don't get rid of our crops, our land like that. we don't just and people like oh, they, these blacks, they didn't know what's going on. we did know what was going on. the history of juneteenth when they all of a sudden, they come

on these channels, juneteenth, juneteenth, juneteenth. we celebrated juneteenth for as long as i've been alive for 73 years. and my ancestors, longer than that. it was about family. >> can i ask you how, do you remember as a kid and over the years what the conversation was like around this significance of this day? >> yes. they taught us to respect who we are. and for what people have fought and given up for us. and that was part of our negro history. that was taught by a gentleman, knitted e williams. he was mentored by frederick douglass. and george washington carver. he had no education but he learned to read from the sharecroppers. and then he brought back to ned

e. williams, a little country school. the education. and what was important to us. tax receipts. and voting. right now, people talk about reparations. i don't care about reparations. would i care about is our kids learning to vote. and their rights. and demanding for you, mr. allen, he did make a statement about we need to do better. and not let the government take care of us. we don't vote. here in texas, it's the worst voting ever. what's used to be some of the best voting. and i have to disagree with sheila jackson. >> just hold on the line, peniel joseph do you have any questions or reactions to what you heard from anna? >> i think the idea of family.

really a book, juneteenth, where she talks about her family growing up. in texas, in congress, texas. her memories of making food with the family, having the discussions with the family, parades, the barbecue, the homemade food. so i think families usually hugely important when we think about juneteenth and ms emancipation day. in texas, i think it's especially important. i live in texas now, i'm a native new yorker transplanted, but black texans have not gotten their do in terms of the history of civil rights and just american history and liberation struggles in the way that they fought to whether we're talking about freedom townsend texas, freedom colonies from the 19th century. all the way to the civil rights era, not just in big cities like houston and austin and san antonio, dallas. but in rural areas, deep, deep

rural areas. washington county, texas, other parts of texas that were very, very instrumental from slavery and reconstruction all the way to the president. in expanding our boundaries of citizenship and dignity in democracy. >> peniel joseph, how do you feel about reparations? what's your view on that? >> well, i support reparations. i think that reparations for those of us who have been privileged enough to study american history and black history, are hugely key because voting rights are absolutely important. i agree with the last caller on that. but where reparations provides a context for is the economic power that black people have had stolen from them. so part of the dark side in the painful side of this history

that president biden alluded to is the fact that black labor and wealth was stolen multiple times since 1776. so we can start in 1776 and not 60 19. it's both during the period of slavery from 1776 to 1865 but then really from 1865 all the way to late 1960s. you have an extraordinary system of theft of black economic power. and that theft comes in the form of everything from mass incarceration to the theft of land. excuse me. allergies. to residential and public school segregation, to when we think about the second world war. about a half 1 million less african americans are allowed to be inducted into the

military than there are proportionate numbers but i suggested. and so many people then didn't get access to the gi bill, didn't get access to federal loans for homes. it's extraordinary what's happened to black people not just over the last hundred and 50 years but since the birth of the united states of america. so the only way when we think about providing economic parity would be through reparations. there's a great book by black economist, william darity. his wife, kristen mullen, who's a notice color as well. called from here to a quality. reparations from african americans in 24 century. that i would suggest everybody read because i think it's an extraordinary book, very, very important to read. and when you think about reparations, i think we have to think on in multiple ways. federal, state and local and we

need right now proportional representation for black people all across not just corporate america but also in terms of venture capital private equity hedge funds. we are not 12% of. that we are not 12% of the wealth that is being made i am thinking wealth and not just income >> we will leave this conversation here, so it can continue watching if you go to our website at c-span.org or with the three c-span now video app we take you live now to capitol hill where federal reserve chair jerome powell is testifying before the senate banking committee. live coverage on c-span three.