today during women's history month. we're incredibly fortunate to welcome jared kearney assistant director and curator at the james monroe museum in today, during women's history month we are incredibly fortunate to welcome jarod kearney, assistant director and

curator at the james monroe museum in fredericksburg, virginia. for a presentation which will showcase a selection of original items from the life of elizabeth kortright monroe. elizabeth monroe's story is a fascinating one. through her childhood in new york to her experiences as wife of the minister to france and later the fifth u.s. president. jarred will illustrate elizabeth's life using musuem collections which have been handed down through generations of the monroe family. a bit about our speaker. jarod kearney began as curator of the james monroe museum and library in november of 2011. previously, he was curator of the woodrow wilson presidential library and museum in stanton, virginia. prior to that, curator of the rye historical society in new york. he has been director of the hallockville museum, farm, and folk life center on long island. worked at the

greensboro historical museum in north carolina. jarred received his m. a. in museum studies and b. a. in history from the university of north carolina at greensboro. he is also a blacksmith, woodworker, raises bonsai trees, is a photographer and has acted in numerous films. it is wonderful to have him with us today. again, there will be time for q&a at the end of our presentation. please feel free to leave those at the bottom of your screen. without further ado i will turn the zoom over to jarred. >> hello! thank you so much for that great intro. thank you highland and the james monroe museum for having me. i am really excited to be here and to show you some really cool stuff from elizabeth monroe's life. before i begin, before i jump into the material, all of

these cool artifacts that i have here, let me ask you a question. if you are in your house and time suddenly froze, everything just sort of, stood still. hundreds of years from now people were looking at the artifacts, the items, that were in your house, what would those items say about you? what's the story they would tell? my guess is they would probably say an awful lot, right? artifacts in collections are not just separate from us, they are a part of our story. they are part of who we are, who we were, and who we will be. i know that sounds a little deep but -- anyway! that is what these artifacts do. they tell a story. i'm going to start with something pretty cool, let's

dive right in. let me pull this open, i will show you this. i will show these artifacts to the camera and hopefully you'll be able to have a good view of these. okay, so, what is this? what is it that i'm holding here? this is elizabeth monroe's necessaire. it belonged to her. it is actually cast with a guild. a gold on top. it has these fancy cast carvings. but, what is it? what exactly is going on here. i'll show you! if you open it up there's all kinds of stuff that are actually in this necessaire. it is actually something she would have used. people ask about the practicality of things, what would elizabeth monroe carry around with her? this exactly is one of them right here. the necessaire is sort of like -- sort of like a pocket watch. excuse me, a pocket knife. a swiss army knife and it housed all that kind of stuff on here. what am i talking about? first of all, this is something that would've been in there. look at

this little sucker! look, i don't know if the camera shows it that well but it is a little knife it has a little screw on the end there. little threads that would screw in. you could use it for eating or for sharpening graphite. i will get a little bit more into that in a second because that is kind of cool too. of course this has a companion piece, you have a fork, all right? can you see that. notice there are two tines, that is typical at the time. threads on the back of it as well. these things, actually there is a little extender that is in here. you can pull it out, believe it or not there is actually a little extender and screw goes on the top if you wanted to, theoretically, you could have a meal with this thing. the question i get is, would they actually have done

that? probably not, but elizabeth monroe would've had the capability if she so choosed. another thing i want to show you is a little screw to go along with. it that's very good. i want to show you this what on earth is that, okay? this was in the necessaire. what on earth is it? it is actually, believe it or not, an ear scoop. that's right, you heard that right. this is an ear scoop, it would've cleaned out the ear. it sounds ridiculous but this is something they would've used. people did in fact injure themselves, it's made out of metal. it is a danger to themselves. people actually did injure themselves. nevertheless, there you go. used for cleaning

out the ear it would've been in her lovely necessaire here. something else that was interesting we have a measuring stick here what was interesting about this is this kind of necessaire--this was used by both french and english firms. it is really hard to tell them apart because they both have very, very, similar looks to them. they both have these cast carvings and everything, this does not have any markings on it, okay? it's a mystery whether it was french or english. looking close up and lo and behold it actually is the metric system that tells us that this was french, it was made in france. we are not using the metric system back in those days and up to this day. there you go! let me show you

let me show you this piece here. i will pull it out, what on earth is this? this, believe it or not, was a notepad for elizabeth monroe. what am i talking about? i'm talking about graphite pencils. they actually did do that. pencils were not the same as they are today. graphite would write on this. what is this? it's not bone, it's actually ivory. it is a little piece of ivory slab that she could write on in her daily life. it goes to show that she had the ability, the capability, to write herself notes. in the museum we have another one, bigger slabs of ivory they would've written themselves notes back then. they actually did do that. it is something that we still do today. a little different, we type it into the ipod or

androids or anything like that. we set ourselves a little reminders. this is the ipad or android back then, at least on some level. wouldn't the graphite wipe off? unless you specifically wipe off the graphite it actually stays on there. how do i know this? you can do an experiment at your house if you want to. take a tag, a garden tag for garden plants, right one with pen and write another with graphite, okay? stick them outside. the graphite, the pencil, will last way longer than the pen will. the pen will fade. graphite will actually stay on here. a little antique tip for you. if you but one of these, you might be able to see some of the notes, under certain light, still written on them. there you go elizabeth monroe's necessaire. it's something that she would've carried with her. it shows practicality but it also showed a certain style that someone in her position as, back then at least, as wife of the ambassador would have had. what else do i have here?

people ask about things we have with elizabeth monroe. i want to show you this. what is going on here? this looks like, at least in modern terms, it looks like a modern slipper something he would wear lounging around or something like this. this is actually in the ballet style. this is very regency period. you could see someone from a jane austen novel wearing something like this. this belonged to elizabeth monroe. this is something she would've worn around the turn of the century. something that is interesting about this, if you look at this, this shoe here,

okay? this shoe belongs to elizabeth monroe's mother. look at this. this would've been just a couple decades later, you can see how radically the styles changed. it works in the sense that if you can imagine, elizabeth monroe with her husband going to europe back in those days especially the mid-1790s the first time europe was, they didn't know what to make of us. most of them thought that we would fail, most wondered who are these upstarts. we were more popular with france we went over there -- they might have been expecting the americans to show up barefoot, who knows? did not know what to make of this new

american country. in a sense it was important to wear styles that were reflective of the society where you are going. being ambassador to france, he would want to wear something that was the latest fashion, especially in the position of being an ambassador's wife. it's not just the hoity-toity part of it. it is important in establishing that we are serious, you know what i mean? we are serious, we are a country, we have formed and we are here to stay. we are not going anywhere! we will not collapse like a lot of people thought we would. as bizarre as it sounds, little details like that actually matter. it matter to elizabeth monroe and it mattered to james monroe at the same time they -- in fact why don't i transition to this dress back here. a gown, very regency period. very jane austen. this gown belonged to elizabeth monroe, she wore this

overseas. she would've worn it on the second diplomatic mission at the turn of the 19th century. you can see that it's very slick, very straightforward. a lot different than those gowns that were coming out just a couple decades beforehand. much more lavish, it had the bodices and much wider, bigger everything. more sleek, more streamlined, right? it it would've been modern, it would've been the new style to wear. it is made, believe it or not, out of

velvet. what's really interesting, as sort of a side nerd tangent here. velvet, you know how they make velvet? they have two pieces of material that are intertwined between. back then they had a machine, down by hand, that would cut the material in half. what am i talking about? i'll show you a picture here. do you see that? i know it's reversed. i apologize. you can see the machine would cut and it would create -- this right here, those thread sticking out, that is what makes that velvet texture. whenever you seeing velvet you're actually seeing the inside of the cut two pieces of material. kind of cool right? anyway, elizabeth would've worn this. we don't have it but, especially at formal occasions, it is likely she would've had this gold drapery, a scarf that would've gone and folded around her. we do not have that. it would have added a little extra something to it. again, very much in the style at the time. not overly done is very much part of the

monroe and there esthetic. they wanted to have enough fanciness that they belonged in the room but not to overdo it. that this is our own style, it was reflective of what was happening in america at the time we were forming our country we were forming our identity. the material culture reflects that. we were borrowing some things from europe certain styles, certain things. we also had our own thing going. with monroe, it was not overly done. you can see that in a lot of their clothing, a lot of materials they purchased. it was good but it wasn't crazy over the top. i thought that was kind of cool. all right, what else do i have here? okay, let me show you this. i am going to show you this. this is a cameo that belonged to elizabeth monroe. can you see that? something that is really cool about this,

these were all handmade they are actually all handmade to this day. what exactly is happening here? what is going on? why is it white here and then a pinker color back here. this is actually made of a shell. what they would do you, they do this to this day but if you can imagine you take the seashell, you cut out a piece of the opal for the cameo. the craftsmen, imagine the craftsmanship, slowly start carving away, they slowly start carving away so that there is white, and they get down to that pink, the center part of the shell. you look at a shell the inside of the conch shells are pink-ish, red on the inside on the outside there is that white, bone white. that is what they are doing. they carve it out just enough to get to the inner part of the shell to reveal and show the outer part as the relief. it is an

astounding piece of hand craftsmanship. this was all done by hand! everything i'm showing here was done by hand. think about that! the dress, the necessaire, these are all done by hand! it's all pretty amazing. so what? so, what's the big deal with that? elizabeth would want to make sure part of how she was presenting herself would be in with the latest fashions. not over done, but with the latest fashions. lo and behold, who was a big fan of cameos but napoleon, okay? napoleon and his wife, josephine. big fan of cameos. why such a big fan of cameos? when napoleon was invading italy and greece, going into all those old school places, they would find ancient roman cameos that were done in the exact same way. exact same way! he would send some back to josephine. josephine fell in love with them. cameos became

popular, became in fashion again in part because napoleon was invading other countries! it is kind of messed up, right? that is exactly what was happening. napoleon had these all done up, it was actually a really beautiful piece that we have here today. but this one is of elizabeth monroe. it's kind of cool, you don't see these a lot but every once in a while you can still see one that is worn. as it spanned the time period, spanned the decades. that is what is cool about artifacts. right? some artifacts spanned the decades certain kinds of dresses, certain kinds of shoes may be -- things like that. they spanned many many time periods. you might see someone have this in the 1960's or even today or

200 years ago. then there are artifacts that you don't see any more. they will not come around again. they exist only because we still have them and we take care of them. i will show you one such artifact. what is this? let me hold this up. what is going on here, what is the? can you see that? this, i will open the lid here, this is a vinegarette. what's is a vinegarette. it's something you did not see anymore. it was actually to help with smells to put it plainly. they were sort of the deodorant of back in that time period when you have a vinegarette like this what they would do and i actually have it here they actually had, look at that, a little tiny sponge. i'm not making this up, it's a little tiny sponge that would go inside the

vinegarette. the vinegarette -- if you look at this, on the inside, silver on the outside but inside it's gold. that is because vinegarette, it was acidic. the sponge would soak up some of the anti-odor stuff, vinegar was part of the ingredient in a lot of these. you can imagine the vinegar smell it's a little bit some strange right the sponge we're go inside this little compartment that was right here. it would actually help to mask smells. it is a little deodorant accoutrements there. what is cool, i blew up a picture, this was actually made by john shaw an english silversmith. if you can see this, it's actually a detail, the inside of the vinegarette. it's a little flowerpot, you

know what i mean? to symbolize something fresh smelling. that is exactly what was going on with this. this is not an artifact that spans time, this is one that is gone with the wind as they say. they do not make these anymore. at least not for the purpose we did back in the day. also, if you want to talk about bureaucracy, i have another thing that has to do with that. these are some of the makers marks, marked into this tiny, tiny, vinegarette. because of actual silver laws back in the day. i will piggyback on this a little bit i will show you -- let's see if i can find it. do i have it? looks like i don't have it. okay, never mind. there is, we have a perfume bottle in the collection. the perfume bottle is really, really, tiny. they actually have makers marks set all on the insides of elizabeth

monroe's perfume bottles. all these dutch makers marks that you can't even see with the naked eye. that is bureaucracy. it is the one constant, as bones said in star trek, the one constant in the universe is bureaucracy. they still did it all the way back then. something i get asked a lot, about i'm gonna show this right -- this is a fan favorite right here. what is this? little baby shoes that belonged to elizabeth, well, eliza. elizabeth monroe she did have three children. eliza born in 1786, mariah was 1802, james spencer 1809, he unfortunately passed very young. people ask if back in the day they had such a thing as baby shoes, well there you go, absolutely they did. this is actually made

out of leather, believe it or not. little tiny baby shoes that would've belonged to elizabeth monroe's daughter. yes, that is something, motherhood has not changed. well i want to show you next exactly this incredible piece of jewelry here. this is actually a tiara, right? you can see the prongs that go in here. this belonged to elizabeth monroe. again, this would've been worn by her during the public life as the wife of a diplomat, as the wife of the future president, this is something she would want to have in order to establish that you are serious, you mean business, and you actually do you have the ability to be in the room with other countries and things like that. specifically, look at this tiara, okay? look at this! each

one of these are coral, little pieces of coral beads on gold, okay? you can imagine the craftsmanship of actually shaping each one of these pieces. each one of these had to be done and then drilled into and then put individually and then added to the tiara. tiara's are kind of making a comeback, aren't they? they went away for a while, you see little kids sometimes they wear them and things like that. this one, she would've bought this while she was over in france. again, this is something she would've worn at special occasions, formal events things like that. it was a necessity to be able to mix and match to other diplomatic corps now i'm gonna get into this part here i want to show you this piece. have to be very careful put it

on a black background. what is this? look at that this is elizabeth monroe's aquamarine necklace. sorry, i don't know what happened. zoom just dropped out for some reason! i do not know what is going on with that we are back. we are back, where did i leave off? let me see here, this is elizabeth monroe's necklace, aquamarine. okay? you see this big bulbous cross and everything that was going on here. was this fashionable at the time? let me show you something. when i was doing research on the exhibit for this sort of thing i came across this picture of ceramic sellers in france around the same time period that elizabeth monroe would've worn this necklace. if you can see up close, look at the necklace that she is wearing. right

there, see that? the necklace she's wearing, the bulbous stones. the bulbous cross. lo and behold, it is the same exact necklace. the same exact style. elizabeth monroe knew her stuff. this is aquamarine, like i said. it is surrounded by, it looks, like copper. superb, amazing craftsmanship. you might ask yourself, so? she has some fancy jewelry, things like that. what's the point what's the big deal? let me ask you a story, imagine for a moment you are elizabeth monroe, you are accompanying your husband over into france in the mid 1790s. you're accompanying has been over there. you are

born into moderate wealth. your father was a merchant, you are not completely un-used to the opulence of paris and everything but it would have been something to see. it would've been overwhelming. the climate of the time, imagine! this is the climate of the time you are right in the waning part with the committee on public safety. right at the waning part of that. 1790's in france there are executions going on the craziness going on there is an aura of paranoia in paris at the time people were getting executed left and right, getting killed in paris. not just people but people of your class! the upper class, nobility, things like that. wealthy folks they were getting executed! you are there with your husband, one good thing is at that point france

appreciated the u.s.. they had a good relationship at that time. but still, not a very good vibe in france. you show up as this young woman in france at the time you're husband's friend, the marquis de lafayette. famously helping the united states out in the revolutionary war a really good friend of your husband he has been imprisoned up in austria. he is up there up in prison. his wife, his young wife the marquis de lafayette's wife is in prison. her name is adrienne. she was imprisoned in the same city you just arrived in. these are friends of the

family, important folks. the wife's uncle, this is the uncle of adrian, pleads with monroe to do something. do something to free her from this prison in paris. guess what? the chances of her being executed more really, really, good. really high! this was not a joke. this wasn't just some slap on the wrist. this was a serious thing. the problem is monroe, james monroe is in a really tough bind at the time. as an ambassador, he cannot make these waves. they are just starting off as a country you can't go over there making all these demands. he had to walk this tight line okay? what do you do? you want to help out the wife of your friend who more than likely is going to be executed, you want to help her

out but you can't, what do you do? this is where elizabeth comes in, okay? you can imagine this young woman in france with all this new stuff, all these new sights and sounds, probably a little scared a little intimidated. what does she do? at the time there wasn't a lot of fancy carriages in paris for rent or things like that. everything was in chaos, all right? she gets a carriage elizabeth has it gussied up she gets in the carriage she gets all gussied up with jewelry, a tiara, just like this. she would've gussied up with a fancy cameo, just like this. carrying a necessaire, maybe. i have this as part of the package there. just like that. maybe wearing a dres just like this. she gets gussied up so she looks like the wife of an

ambassador. she goes down, they get down to the front gate, you can imagine a crowd gathered around. you have to understand that at this point she was known, they actually called her la belle americaine. the beautiful american. wait, is that the diplomats wife? is that elizabeth monroe getting out of that carriage? what is she doing here at the prison? while, she gets out and a crowd starts to gather up. she strolls right up to the gate and she demands to see adrian. you can imagine the captain of the prison guard is standing there at the gate and here is the diplomats wife, all gussied up, looking important! looking like, if you don't do what i say you are gonna get in trouble. that was the whole point of all that show. what does he do? he let her in! he

really had no choice. you can imagine, poor adrian because she was inside. she's inside she doesn't know what's going on all she knows is they come to her door and they say, we need you. we're gonna carry you out the door here. in her mind, she might be getting executed, right? what does she see, lo and behold, she sees elizabeth monroe standing there. what was interesting about that is that moment was not lost on people, okay? you can imagine the people standing around in all this darkness, all this paranoia doom and gloom, no hope for the future, there is this little light of bravery that happens in the middle of that. people started talking,

word gets around when monroe couldn't do anything but he's going behind the scenes asking the committee of public safety, what can we do here? so the short story of it is -- adrian's mother and her grandmother were both executed! her coming up, the short story is that adrian was actually released. she was actually let go! really because of that act of bravery that elizabeth did. part of these artifacts helped her create that presents, create that story to the people around her that she was somebody that need to be listened to, you are going to let her go, you are going to let her go, and adrian ended up going free, and adrian being the person that she was went up and negotiated with the emperor

to let her stay with lafayette. with her kids in the prison for five years. so, anyway, you wonder about who elizabeth monroe was and what do artifacts tell about her and that is the heart of it. in a way, these things helped save a woman's life in a roundabout way. these artifacts are here, and we know highland has a bunch too. that is why it is important to cherish these artifacts and let them tell their story. and to save them in the future because if you and i do not than who well? anyway, i think i will stop it there and see if we have any questions from folks. >> awesome, thank you so much, jarred, that was spectacular. thank you for speaking so passionately about the importance of material culture and the way that items can tell us these important political, diplomatic, and international histories. we do have some questions from our audience. i'm going to go in the order

they were entered into our q&a. to begin with, there is a question about if any objects reflect elizabeth's new york heritage? >> i am going to say yes, the short answer is yes. we actually have a wedding dress that could have been her wedding dress. it was used from material that most likely belonged to her mother. this would have been new. i am going to show you, it is right here. come with me. >> take us around, thank you. >> let me show you, i have a right here. this is kind of cool. >> i love the collections bases, this is truly behind the

scenes. >> can you see this? >> i can see that, yes. >> this actually belongs to elizabeth monroe but the material was older and likely belonged to her mother. it would have come from overseas but it would have been imported into new york maybe by her father who was a merchant. and so, it has that new york stamp. there it is. just wanted to show you that. >> that is absolutely beautiful. kind of in line with thinking about materials, there was a question of what other material was in that spectacular coral tiara that you showed us. >> it is gold. it is mostly

gold. these tines here, i think are copper if i'm not mistaken. so, there is gold. in fact, it might be an ally of copper because it is a little bit stronger. it is definitely soft. if there is no medulla it is probably ten and his probably a little less. it is motion just gold and coral, just astounding. the craftsmanship on that, it is amazing. >> on that line of craftsmanship and the notion of the makers of some of these items, there was a question. since we are looking at her objects and her property, can you tell us about her relationship to slavery in this era, when slaves were considered property. and, arguably, may have been making some of these items as well. >> yes, that is a wonderful question. the short answer is

the monroes owned, over the course of their lives, some 250 slaves if i'm not mistaken about that. their wealth, as far as the management of their farm, everything was all based on slavery. munroe bought and sold and elizabeth monroe was in that family. now, as far as her personal relationships i do not know as much, there's been a lot of research in that but we have a museum. i do not have it with me but we have several items that were crafted by slaves. that is the truth of it, so, we have a betty lamp. i wonder if i can pull out, i don't think it is very near. we have items that were crafted by slaves. i do not believe any of these particular ones were, but we do have those items. yes, that is an integral part. >> yeah, yeah, thank you. a question about elizabeth's parents, where they well

traveled? >> well, lawrence was a merchant, so, there would have been some traveling going on there. as far as translating to elizabeth, i do not know how much she really went in and out of the country as far as that goes, but he would have certainly been familiar with international vibes, and people coming and going. i do not know the exact extent of it but there would have been some. >> our items on display at the james monroe museum with a description and story on each item? are these items, for example, on display, do you keep them in storage? i know preservation and conservation are always an issue with textiles in particular. >> the short answer is yes, a lot of these are actually out on exhibit. we have an exhibit upright now that has qr codes

on each of the artifacts that you can scan, and it will bring you to a different curator chat where i talk about them. they are all online as well, these curator chats. they are either on facebook or some of them are on youtube. most of they were on facebook live. the answer is yes, these two items are not currently out but the cameo and the dress will go back up. >> yes, lots of places to see some of these items and learn about them, the curator chats i will be certainly checking them out so, that sounds wonderful. >> yeah. >> there are at least two more questions in this q and a, does the collection includes french or british ceramics that were

owned by the monroe's? >> yes! we have tons of those, i know i can grab that very quickly, just one second. i am just going to run over and grab them. >> we will bear with you. >> [inaudible] >> all right, i'm going back, i promise. this, here is a good example. this is french, one of the first white house china to come out. you can see it has the monroe crest on it. it has 20 stars around the inside, symbolizing 20 states. in 1817 and it has the gold rim. this was made in paris, this is called hard paste porcelain. it

is a little bit tougher, you can see it a little bit tougher, then soft base which you see a lot today. something that is interesting is whenever they were putting and bids for ceramics to decorate the white house, and this would have been later. there were 30 firms around paris at the time that we're making porcelain good enough to be in the white house, so to speak. interestingly, monroe was so beloved in france, all 30 of them bid. you may say that is a money thing, but all 30 of them? come on! that is a lot. they all bid on it because they wanted to make porcelain for the friends of france. >> they are beautiful and

elegant, i love that piece, an interesting question, i had that about the address, the goal dress lacing up the back. does the other dress have closures in the back, or would she have been sewn into that dress? that is a question i have also had with some of these dresses. >> sewn into it, i do not know about that, i do not know much about the actual putting the dress on. i have heard this summer but i do not want to speak out of turn, there are clasps in the back so i do not think she would have been sewn into this. this one certainly not, it was a bit slicker. you are not worried about getting pulled in. i had heard that, i guess my answer is i do not think so. certainly now on this one, and the other one looks like the clasp in the back that was put in. >> there is a question about that aquamarine cross necklace, when the merchants wife as depicted in the picture you

share is amazing have worn something so costly? or would hers have been made of less valuable materials? >> that is a great question, interestingly the aquamarine is not that crazy expensive. do not get me wrong, it is not like diamonds or emeralds or something, a lower tier as far as that sort of thing goes. that is more affordable, it sounds very hoity-toity but of something that was very wealthy. the style certainly was the same but the gems could be something even less. it is a good catch, it could have been glass or something. not glass, it would have been crystal. the difference between glass and crystal is the lead content. you can almost see the

difference between it, as bizarre as that sounds. >> okay. >> you are right, a clerk or merchant, in this situation, may not have even had aquamarine. she would have had style, which is the important thing. question that is coming to us from our facebook audience, how tall is she? and the dress she looks like she may have been a short women. >> you're looking around five two, in there, you are absolutely right. >> must have made a striking couple with monroe being a tall

gentlemen and her being shorter. there was a question, a really interesting one about the european history separating secular from religious. when wearing a cross have been especially dangerous for anyone? >> yes, it did not seem to be, why was it so? i do not think it was considered an offense. you do see them. you see crosses in the pictures of that time period and things. you are right, i would imagine religion certainly in general was not a great topic at that point in time. it does not seem to have affected the necklace and things. >> yes, very interesting, that exhausted with a question so far in our q&a, we've got about ten minutes left with you. i had a few questions, mostly is

starting with the necessary, with several people asked for the spelling. i hope i did it justice in the chat. i think, i know i did. how did we learn, or you as a curator learn about unfamiliar, unknown, or objects that are on obsolete? what are some of the ways you can figure out what something was used for? the spurn, for example. how do we learn about these weird little things? like to do. i sort of i call it sort of the craftsman approach to history. >> that is a great question, if you get an artifact and you do not know what is going on with that, what i like to do is the craftsmen approach to history. i like to start with how it was made. that is where i like to start, especially if you do not know much about it or anything like that. so, how was it made? start simple. it was cast, not carved, which means that

someone molded a cast out of it. the materials were something that was time appropriate, for example. if this was gilded, or we were not doing that time period they think it is, it was an anomaly or a different time period. so, i like to approach how it was actually made, if you can locate down who is making it in that particular time, that helps a lot. we have these gloves that were doused, very simple. so, at the very least that no skin, as a material, was popular in the u.s. because we have an abundance of rock material. it's a horrible say of wing we have an abundance of deer. wait more than europe. so, the skin would've been how they would've made them. in here, the u.s., so. that's one way you can pinpoint it down. and then fortunately, with the

internet, we have a lot more access to things now. buzzword searches. then you compare and contrast, if you sort of do detective work and sort of drill down what you can find. another thing i like to do is, a lot of times, there are makers marks and things on these that are not visible to the naked eye. so, i would literally just take a magnifying glass and scour every inch of it, just see if i can find one. a few times, i've actually found that. in fact, the example i was using with the perfume bottle. you can see these with the naked eye, there is no way. and so, that's another way, you just scour everything you can about it. eventually the pieces sort of come together, especially when there's no smoking gun. >> yeah, are there any existing written documents about elizabeth monroe's personal items? do we know anything from letters, either perhaps from her hand, which i know are few and far, but anything about her through letters?

>> yeah, you know, as far as these artifacts specifically, i don't know if any letters talking specifically, unfortunately, about these items. like, by the way, elizabeth purchased an aquamarine back necklace or something like that, so, as far as i know, there's not a whole lot that actually tracked down a specific item, unfortunately. i wish there was, you know, if you find one, please send it our way, for sure. >> i was going to say, are there any items that you would love to know more about or you know she had but we don't have in hand anywhere? >> yeah, i would love to know more about the specific, especially the wedding dress i showed you before, if we could find something that said, oh, on her wedding day, she wore, because we see wedding dress because it was about the same time that she would've had a wedding. it's something that you could've worn to a wedding then, so it's more, you know, supposition. i would love to have a letter saying, oh, she wore a floral pattern with this, you know, on

her wedding day. that would've been pretty cool. >> that would be the bow on the entire thing. i love that. there is one more question about, for actually a couple more questions. do we know anything about the dutch heritage of her name, i'm assuming courts right? >> the dutch heritage, gosh, again, i don't know much about her dutch heritage side of her. but that is a great question. i can find out and get back to you, that's for sure. >> yeah, i think there's a lot about elizabeth that our wonderful research questions about, you know, her upbringing, which is gwen's question here in the q&a. how was she taught as a child? was it a governance, did you go to a school, do you know anything about that? >> well, you know, we actually have samplers and things like that that a lot of the teaching

would've been, you know, especially in new york, being a dutch connally that sort of thing, the education would've been a little bit better. so, you know, we actually have examples of samplers that were done, you know, especially by her children, that would say, they would actually learn how to write, learn how to do that, and actually so it in their. so you are looking at sowing and sort of basic life skills like that. so, the education, her education would've been, you know, certainly more at new york than it would've been, you know, in a lot of other places, especially in the u.s. at the time. so, a little more comprehensive. >> >> beautiful. yeah, we have a highland sampler from that mariah, her younger daughter, who was 11, that she brought when she was 11. so, that's something to see in the next generation. just for the last minute, i have just one more question for

you. you've talked a lot about these makers marks, which are just, i think, personally fascinating and locating them, how small they can be. do you know if she had any favorite makers, like, where there any consistent makers that you have come across? >> right, that's a good question to. a lot of her items are not actually marked by who made them themselves, but a lot of them are french in origin. she had a real affinity for french culture, just like her husband did. a lot of that comes from her years spent over there at the time. -- so, in a sense, the tendency for her would've been for french makers, for sure. specific ones, you know, i don't see a specific pattern that would come from one person, but definitely french. >> yeah, wonderful. i'm sorry, wonderful.

well, are there any other questions from our audience? >> no one, right? all right. >> nobody? wonderful. >> great questions that were asked so far, thank you. >> these were spectacular, awesome audience, thank you all for joining us today. thank you, jarred, for this wonderful conversation. yeah, thank you, this has been wonderful. i hope you see these comments in the chat. i learned a lot today about elizabeth and i think it's an incredible way to access her, and to think about women's history, and as you pointed out so eloquently, you know, their role and some of these really important political moments and how we see that through style. >> that had gone missing in history, yeah, for sure. they need to be found.

on our weekly series, the presidency, historian -- asking the question, do we really need a president? >> when lincoln resolves who

issued the emancipation proclamation, in september of 1862, he calls his cabinet together and he tells them, i have finally resolved, i'm going to issue this emancipation proclamation. we are going to free the confederacy slaves, it's a dramatic moment. it's probably the most important single decision a president has to make, in terms of domestic policy in the 19th century. and he explains it to his cabinet in terms of what he called a covenant, a vow he had made with god that if the union army were successful in driving the confederate army of robert e. lee back across the pot of mac river, which they did at the battle of -- just a week before lincoln has this cabinet meeting, lincoln said, he had made this vow that he was going to send the proclamation after him. and now he was going to fulfill that vow. now, this astonished the members of his cabinet.

they were a bunch of hard bitten politicians. they were not used to this kind of thing. one of them actually said, would you mind repeating yourself? that i hear you correctly? lincoln said, yeah, i made a vow to my maker that i would issue this proclamation, and now i'm going to do it. are there other moments like that in american history that show a direct influence of a presidents fate on decision-making? >> i think there are multiple examples. one that comes to mind from more recent years, for us that new history, as well as politics, is president ronald reagan. and after he survived the assassination attempt, he said that he believed that god had spared him to do something even more than he had been doing thus far as president. then if you think about the relationship that he had already started, but then he really went on to forge with various leaders, including pope john paul the second, to wage

what ended up being a winning act in the cold war. and, of course, reagan could not have known that going in. but he said he had faith in god and he then had good policy. but it was very much dramatic. he talked about the divine plan. he would talk about the dp, with various advisers, and he got that from one of them originally, but then he liked it so much, he used it. so, he definitely comes to mind. >> the presidency airs saturday at 2 pm eastern. it's available to watch anytime online at c-span.org slash history.

next on american history tv, the discussion on will draw wilson's second wife, edith, and her political influence and actions in the white house. edith wilson was first lady from 1915 to 1921. the first ladies association for research and education hosted this event. >> good evening, my name is nancy keegan smith, i would like to welcome you as the vice president to tonight's program. thank you to our partner, american university school of public affairs, who has been so supportive of our endeavor. and, to our institutional members rider university, white house historical association, massachusetts historical