perfectly frank, it is years after years that i've reflected on it and call it up. realize what a frightening, frightening, moment that is. how that vulnerability is a defining feature of what it means to be black. think of any particular police interaction, it is potentially a killing zone. what it means to live with that existential reality. >> to watch the full program just search devin carbon o, or the title of his book, unreasonable book tv dot org. con centhi everyone, i'm jack 11th l i am the chief branding consultant officer at sixth and i. on behalf of the team, thank you for being with us tonight. for those who may be new to sixth and i we are center for art, entertainment, and culture for jewish and -- celebrating the release of her new book, payoff.

russia is a truth teller and a builder of movements. we have seen that through her movement with grossly code. the pioneering non profit that regime out founded to close the gap in information society. >> a national movement for centering women in economic recovery into champion policies that support all moms. reshima saujani unwavering passion is at the heart of pay up the pandemic made clear to her and to billions of women that workplaces have never been built for working mothers to have a fair chance. that is what we saw a historic number of women leave their jobs in 2021. highlighting that it is a system that needs to be fixed, not women. reshima offers a plan to educate corporate where leaders, advocate for policy reform and reimagine our workplaces. tonight she will be having this crucial conversation with sally buzbee the executive editor of

the washington post, where she is the first woman to lead the 144 year old news organization. previously, sally was the executive editor and senior vp of the associated press. later in the program we will take some of your questions, you can submit those using the q&a button on the bottom of your zoom window. we are also including a link to purchase copies of pay up with autograph book plates in the chat box. thanks again for joining us. please give a warm welcome to reshima saujani and sally buzbee into your homes. >> i! >> hi everyone. it is great to be with all of you. thank you all for doing this today. reshima it is so nice to see you again, even if it is virtually like this. talking to you about all of these important issues you are raising. >> thank you, it's highly, it is so great to be here. i know a lot is happening in your life and in your world. for you to take the time to be here and to talk about women

and working women it means a lot, i think to everything a person who has participated tonight. so thank you. >> that is very kind. there is no more important issue in our world, i think it is fair to say. let's get started! the title of the book is, payoff! the future of women and work and why it is different than you think. let's start with, how is it different than what you thought? >> workplaces have never worked for women. covid showed that. so many of us found ourselves without affordable childcare. managers who didn't get it! partners who were not doing their part. now women are in crisis. millions of women have left the workforce. the largest exodus of women leaving the workforce in the history of our nation. 51% of working women say they are anxious and depressed. the cdc released a report saying two subgroups that are most at risk right now are 18 to 24-year-olds and moms. moms! moms don't break. we had an opportunity to finally make workplaces work

for us because they never have. >> you write in the book that this thing that i think many of us have probably felt before deep down, we get this sick feeling that we are colluding with our own erasure. we are squeezed, or do we squeeze ourselves, into a guilt shame filled cone of silence. requiring the contradictory demands of childbearing and professional ambition. after all, wasn't having it on what we asked for? i'm curious why you think this all came to head during the pandemic? was it always happening in this just worsened it? or why do you think it came to a head during the pandemic? >> i think it was always happening. my book -- hillary clinton was talking about this. ever since she entered the workplace she was told, don't put pictures up of your kids. don't talk about your motherhood. the only way we could show up at work was hiding half of ourselves. i think the problem, sally, is

corporate feminism really bought into this. i bought into this! you know? i spent the past decade telling girls to lean in real hard, girl boss their way to the top! in covid i found myself with two little kids, running in organization and it broke me. i have resources! we learn the having it all is really a euphemism for doing it all. there was something about covid, whether it was being at home with our kids. this whole idea of zoom schooling being invented. knowing that we would be the beneficiaries, right, of that work. no one cared. the way that we've been doing it. telling women to get a mentor, get a sponsor, color-coded calendar, that was not getting up to equality. we were fighting the wrong guy. the fight we should have been fighting is how do we get to equality at home? how do we create structure so we can stop trying to fix the woman and fix the system?

>> that idea of fixing the woman versus fixing the system is obviously very much at the heart of this. i think many of this i'm constantly asked how do you do what you do? as if we are somehow superhero people who, if they could just figured out what we did it would work. many of us probably get asked that question. was that a good bit of advice they gave to people? the way i did it? talk to me a little bit about that. about that issue. the people approach you with that? i need to change to make this work, is that something you hear? >> all the time. i think the whole idea of imposture syndrome, why women show up -- again i spent my life trying to get women into technology. the amount of women for point illicit m.i.t., brilliant phds, invariably the last question they will ask is i feel like i don't belong here.

why am i exhausted? why do i feel like i can't cut it. it's because women are doing two thirds of the caregiving work. the reason is, we thought that was the way. looking at my life, i spent almost a decade trying to have a baby. when i finally had sean i was on two planes, two trains every week trying to deal with movement. i didn't see him see -- i don't see him crawl. i don't see him or hear him say his first words. i look at myself in the mirror and say, well that's the price. that is the price reshima, you have to pay for changing the world. it shouldn't be the price that we have to pay. you know? if we want to work or make a difference. what we have been doing has come at a huge cost. i think where it is really showing up right now, not even just the labor market or the women in the workforce it is really the mental health piece that should terrify all of us. >> are there any companies that

are doing it right? is there anything that you see that is, just on a private level, that is helpful or hopeful for the future? i think there are companies who have gotten a little better in the pandemic. i worry that we are going backwards that once we get everyone back to the office. yes, there are companies like disney, catatonia, have bill onsite daycare to really help with the child care issues. there are more companies that are offering paid leave. paid leave benefits and secondary benefits. there are some companies that have pushed backed -- against flexibility and remote working. we are going to make it possible for people to work wherever works for them. i think there is a trend. what i worry about, sally, is there's also a trend to go back to the old normal. joe biden to my mayor, new york adams. being like, get out of your pajamas and go to work. as if it was that easy.

as if that was the issue! we are still not talking about the fact that the latest job number 27 times more men entered the job market, we are still missing millions of women. black women have the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years. it is all about -- or it's a lot about the cost of childcare. >> what would a new definition of working motherhood look like for different groups? obviously there are different groups. there is privilege affluent white women, there are women of color. how would you think through or think about what this means for different groups women with different life experiences at this point in time? >> three out of ten american families a run by single moms. i think about how i built girls a code, i built it i went to refugee camps. i went to the poor communities and i said, if i can teach her

i can teach anybody. when we designed workplaces we designed them for white men who had a partner who stayed at home, doing all the domestic work. we did not designed them for a single mom, i think a woman of color that is an hourly wage worker. we need to. the thing is, we have an opportunity to do that right now. big company should be providing the same paid leave benefits across the board, right? if you have women in factories and women in the front office they should get the same benefits. it should not matter the color of your skin or how much money you make. and as an indicator of how you get to spend time with your kids and how you get to raise your kids. that is what is fundamentally broken in this country. it shouldn't be about privilege dictating your ability to have a job or be a mother. describ u.s. has long been a total

outlier in child care in general. the system you described happens in some countries. maybe not perfectly but it does happen in some countries. obviously you have a marshall plan for moms. what would be a realistic step forward in the united states? what are the elements of what that entails to you? >> had you asked me six months ago i would've said, pass build back better. get that 7% feeling for childcare. pass paid leave. extend the child care at credit. those things were actually providing relief for working families while we had them. it's still shocks me, sadly, that we are bowing now airlines but we are not bailing our moms. all the evidence, all the data and all the pain that politicians of one party already facing in the ballot box that they still, still, cannot grow a heart. that to me tells me there is something fundamental that we need to shift in our culture.

i was doing a panel with some senior executives in canada and some political leaders in canada and france. it almost made me cry was this woman in canada was like, it's so interesting. post pandemic in canada it's a bull market for women. we have more women in the workforce. that because you get free childcare in quebec. you have paid leave! it is actually proven that when you create structures of support, when you start encouraging families to share in the domestic labor and you provide support to single parents that that is actually good for the economy. good for our health, good for our children. the fact that we, as a country, we like to say we're about family values we can't get there it is -- it is not surprising because i think part of the problem, sally, it goes back to the history. women were only allowed to work in the workforce because of world war ii. men were going off to war and they need workers.

they said, okay, come in. they even provided paid leave and childcare at some moments, right? when the men came back we were pushed out again. we have always been doing this dance of saying please, please, please. let me work. you know what i mean? we've been doing it, at the expense, again, at our families. and our own mental health. i think we just need to call it right now. call it what it is. resist this push against the old normal. the opportunity is the great resignation. 11 million open jobs. can you see these ceos faces? please, please. anybody! come to work. it is a sellers market. we have an opportunity, all of us, not just women! man. child's parents. trans, nonbinary, all of us have the opportunity to dictate the terms of what we want workplaces to look like. >> how can women use that

leverage though? oftentimes if women are under stress, or if they're looking for a job quickly. they are at a transition point in their life they do not always have the time to thoughtfully think through -- maybe in some cases the resource awfully thing through, maybe there is a better job. maybe a have leverage in this conversation. not to mention that none of us are taught to have conversations about jobs with average. are we teaching, are we doing a good enough job of teaching the next generation of women how to do those things? what specific -- like, if you are offering specific concrete to both someone right now in the labor market, what am i asking for? what am i pushing for? obviously depends on the age of that stuff -- let's talk about specifics. this is fascinating. >> this is what i outlined in my book. i am all about strategy, solutions. we know what the problem is, how do we fix it! i think there are two issues. typically i think that we

haven't been in a job market where there are so many open jobs and employees have leverage, that is fresh. it's not going to last forever but it's gonna last for a while. secondly, most of the workplace organizing has often happened in labor unions. there is not an organization that calls you up and says, here's your shot. you can get them to pay for your childcare, all of it. here is what you need to ask for. we also do need to actually start teaching, working women in particular. i think millennials are getting this right. they are going in asking for seven figures, your corner office. my office. mental health pay, pay for my therapy. they know their worth. it's not a woman's issue it is a working mother problem. we have been so traumatized by our experience as mothers in the workplace. the mother had penalty. you leave the work forth, you

get page 40% less than when you exited it. we are kind of like, please, please let us back in! we are breastfeeding in closets. we are putting networking lunches on a calendars rather than say we have to take your kids to your doctor's appointment. we are turning the video off on zoom praying or kids don't scream as if they don't exist. as if this identity doesn't exist. that is what we have been doing for 100 years. that is what our grandmothers did. what our grandmothers did, how do you on teach that? though much of this movement have to start there. you do have leverage, you are worthy. the third thing is, for everyone who's listening right now, what is the one thing you want to change? maybe you want to work from home? work remotely -- at the end of the school day, two days a week. maybe want to fight for that flexibility. your employers may be really

pushing. maybe you do want to ask about what childcare benefits are? i think part of it is figuring it out -- what do i need? saying, you know what? so many people i know would rather quit then ask for what they need. the great resignation, sally, is being led by women. they are quitting. we are going to our next job and we are quitting again! we didn't solve -- i do not want to put this all on us but i think the other piece of this is it's not just us. the things that we want, that want that to. the amount of man i know who want to take their kids to school in the morning, want to take their kids to soccer class. they are in the job market instead of asking. it shows, culturally, we have a problem, right? we are afraid -- fear of retribution, for trying to advocate for ourselves as parents. >> what role do you think the

culture of the country. you are basically saying, this is the way the united states and its culture has been all along. what has cost that? rugged individualism? or women aren't in the workplace or striving for perfection that feminism in america was striving for perfection? what do you think, culturally, or is it literally just the government, we don't want to use government to form benefits unless we need to? sent an i secretary clinton said such a interesting thing yesterday. you remember we were close to getting childcare during nixon, the bill failed. when nixon talked about why the bill failed he basically said, i think the appropriate place for women's at home with their kids. i when you listen to joe manchin, when you listen to mitt romney, some state senators across the country use kind of still hear the same things.

i think culturally there isn't the will to fix workplaces by men in leadership. it's insane thing i would argue with ceos. i am shocked, right? they know what's happening. now many people have left, we know why they're leaving. there is still this resistance. they don't actually want to make workplaces work for us. maybe they don't want us there. at the extreme, a little bit of why i advocate the topic. if you had asked me a few years ago or he writing this movement banning this book -- no, when i wrote my first op-ed i read the comments section. i never read the comments section. what was so fascinating was people on the left were like, what about the dads? people on the roy were like, motherhood is a choice.

people on the left still insist on wanting to talk about this as a caregiving issue. i think that is a mistake. i think it is not appealing to the people two thirds of caregivers are women. if you don't have focus then you cannot move the needle. if i had called girls who code kids who code i would not have top 1500 thousand girls. why are we forcing women out? similarly here, why did the pandemic push women out? why was the caregiving put on women? on the right it is about this idea that motherhood is a choice. you don't get anything from your government! you don't get anything from your partner. your employers. there is a sense that you are in yourself it's your personal issue, you've got to fix it the

fascinating case with this is a school closures i hope washington writes about this i want to know when that decision was made from a policy perspective too -- norway, other countries they didn't shut the schools down. they decided to keep him open. we shut the schools down. we design something called zoom schooling where you needed a parent to log on your child at these our increments. while, again, 80 plus percent of parents work. lost women are in the workforce. we knew in march, april, may, june -- we had this data. women are the ones doing the homeschooling. when they decided to do this cross country release of policy in terms of how we are going to teach millions and millions of kids we knew who was going to

be affected by. we just don't care. we didn't design it in a way that would relieve how they could choose between their unpaid labor in the paid labor. i wonder, i don't know i haven't investigated but was that brought up? did they talk about that? more we even considered? because we have always been the default -- again, if men were doing that home schooling. no way! they would've kept the schools open. >> it is a fascinating question. we've all had so many -- my children are above school age at this point but so many people in my workplace were literally just going like -- it all went to just your personal resources. there was nothing else that was available. if your husband or your partner of any sort winds helping you

with schooling than that was great. if not you went to the grandparents or -- he had to take the time. you talk, in this book, about your own experiences, right? there is literally a moment where you are describing falling apart. being in the fetal position on the floor! was that difficult for you to do? there is almost a drama around those first couple of months. we did our best but, oh my god! there are the seeker conversations that women have -- did your children learn anything or do they just run wild? there is almost this go around the pandemic. did we do a good job or did actually fail? i don't know the never heard men have those conversations. i have heard a lot of women. >> most men were like, that was amazing. i got to think, and rest. learn to play the guitar. think about it, i started the

pandemic i had a super bowl ad. i was gonna teach more girls than it ever taught before. i had a newborn baby that i had via surrogate. all of this anxiety about not spending the time -- i was really looking forward to my leave! the pandemic about three weeks after tsai was born. and you go back to work with a newborn, home school was sean. basically save girls who code from being shut down. people don't realize that we were close. the pandemic that the first resources to go were so many women's organizations that shut down during the pandemic. most of my leadership team were working moms. we were all trying to save our babies, literally. the babies who code and our children. i got covid-19 it barely registered. my liver failed! i was a mess from a house perspective. i think the trauma, going back to that, the trauma that that

decision was made without my input scared the out of me. so many of us have sacrificed so much to get to the point where we were at, to have it taken from me and not even acknowledged still two years later it has not been acknowledged. what happened to moms. it's funny, i was writing about this today, everyone this league is like, oh my god you must be so excited to book, your book! i'm not. i am reliving my trauma every interview i do we talk about how hard it was. i have resources. i have childcare! i can work from home. my husband works from home. when it was safe and father is on this call and drop my baby off with my parents or they can watch them for a couple hour so i could work. i talked to so many women today single mom they had to teach

the mom. >> that is the typical thing. my story is not typical compared to my sisters -- let's shift gears a little bit and talk about smaller companies. i think it's an interesting thing. one of the issues in the united states is women work for corporations, of course they do. a lot of women, because they might come in and out of the workforce, tend to work for smaller companies. nonprofits or whatever it is. not necessarily go just with one company for a long time. they are in smaller organizations. smaller organizations have more difficulty doing the kinds of things that you are talking about in your book. what would you, what do you

think are practical ways to also get smaller, not just big, but small and companies active on this issue. >> i was, now i am, a ceo of a smaller company. very early on in girls who cody had paid leave before new york state did. i got was if i take care of people they will stay with me that was true. the expense of providing paid leave. far less than the expense of attrition. people leave companies fast -- [inaudible] >> and i just lost, can people here reshima? i'm having trouble hearing her. maybe i did something on my end. reshima you just what --

i think people cannot hear. >> i think i fixed! it >> awry. oh my gosh. >> this is a woman who -- >> it's also my husband fall because he turned on his airpods. >> super resilient! how non, -- >> thank you all for your wonderful patients. we will start again very soon. >> all! right yes. are you okay. we can take the time, get yourself settled. you're okay? >> oh, i'm so used to this! it's just a day in the life. >> very good. so, let's briefly pivot to the topic of man. what is the role of men in all of this? whether we are talking about partners, whether we are talking about the people who should have some of the burden of this. if the burden fell on women in

the first months of the pandemic and is still falling on women at this time -- what should men do to make this world, the situation, better? >> i think our goal has got to be to solve for gender inequality that is happening. i'll studies show that women are doing two and a half jobs to surge of the caregiving work is done by women, how do we change that? i think for me, i married one of the good ones. when we had sean i took my leave and he really didn't. my to do list went like this and has shrunk. we haven't really been able to correct it, until i wrote this book! it is how you set the tone. i think that has to change. for a lot of us, we have been taught that, this is our shame. i cannot tell you, sally, how many people during the conversation of said, you have to find a new husband.

you are clearly not teaching him well. you feel like your partner is not doing what they are supposed to do you feel like it is your shame. like you messed up. i think we have to take a step back and say, it is not my job to fix him. we all have to fix the structure. we have to think about what of the things that are exacerbating that. this is why i really believe in mandating paid leave. it is not enough for these companies to tout that they offer 28 weeks of paid leave. i want to know, who is taking it? other men taking it? what we hear, right, from studies is that men are not taking it. 70% of american fathers take less than ten days off. even even if they have it available. we're not fixing the gender ratio of the domestic and confident of labor that's happening at home. and the only way we get through easily fix that. i think corporations have to

start really auditing their policies and start saying, what could i be doing that is essentially -- that could shift that ratio? whether it's mandating paisley leave. whether that's we will monday morning, so what did you all do with your kids? whether it's promoting flexibility and remote working. you actually do get men being at home to do the laundry in between their zoom session that's. we got to call that a goal. it's funny there was the philippines had this -- part of this cultural. the philippines had this whole air campaign that laundrie's love. can you imagine the next super bowl having like snoop dogg and lebron james doing an ad campaign about how much they like doing laundry? that's kind of what we need to do. it is good that the ceo of twitter announced that he was taking paid leave. i liked him to have probably taken a little more. but that's kind of the stuff in

the right direction. >> and do you think that -- this is one of those sort of blame game questions that this is one of the conversations among women happens. are we -- do women actually state what they need and their demands clearly enough? or do we just kind of take it? it's obviously a no win situation during a pandemic you're not going to feed your child, you're not going to not feed your child. you're not going to not care for your child when there is a global global emergency going on. there are moments where women have leverage as you are saying right now. are we really organized? are we really brave enough? is there really enough structure amongst us that that would be supported? and whose responsibility is that? is that my responsibility? is running this organization?

those are the questions i think are women brave enough? are women doing enough at this moment in time? or is that what you're trying to do to make that call? >> i think when it comes to ourselves -- how do we -- i talk about in the semi book. how do powder solve? you should sleep more and meditate and do yoga. that's what's wrong. that's what we're told. it's about creating tangible boundaries. in our house, i do the mornings, he does the knights. if i'm sitting around watching netflix at six, he'll be like hey, could you roll of the bottle or change the diaper? i just leave at six. and i plan my girl's dinner. i have dinner for myself. but i create boundaries. i don't -- my book party. much microphones for their. we love to guys home with the kids. i made a list of what he was to feed him and what time it was good a bed and i wouldn't pajamas. out i was like why did you do

that? because you've just created all this work. that's cognitive labor. that is mental brain space that is work. and so we've got to figure out how we let that go. i don't think it's so much about the negotiation because i think this is what was very revealing about covid in terms of our partners. they saw us doing it. i think we should tell maybe they just don't know. over that they know. >> it was right in front of them. >> so now it's time for us to take our own situation into our own hands. your second point about how do you get some of these policies implemented. and this is really what i do think is missing from the ecosystem. in the women's space. is that when i was trying to get more women to be -- to go into technology. girls who code could work with women in tech. come into those offices and say this is what you need to do.

that's how we got it done. there is no similar organization that is really set up in the same way to the type of pressure. there isn't government. there's a lot of national law center. workers alliance. in the workplace. , -- that's where it's going to start taking the lead on. it's starting to take the lead on. so part of pay up as an advocacy tool kit. everyone if i were to come to your office. i will fire everybody up and it'll help you -- my goal really is the first step. about subsidizing childcare. building a national business coalition mission. to basically give people companies to start committing to doing it. that's a top down strategy. it also means that everybody has to start asking for it. not just mothers or parents. a lot of what i wrote this book for was for young women. during the pandemic, some of

many of the -- no thank you. i don't want that. i'm no want to have kids. what i said to them is don't let people take your choice away. you choose. you choose if you don't want to have kids. but don't -- we all got a fix the structure to preserve choice. >> one of the audience questions that i'm going to turn to israel on this issue that is a really that we're talking about working mothers. because obviously, women have more caregiver responsibilities for let's say -- they have elderly parents or something like that. there is this issue of sometimes people in workplaces -- if we're trying to make accommodations are to help people who have children. people who don't have children concerns we has to work. there can be tensions like that in more places. i think we've all come across across this. what would you say to those? that would get us back to the question of, and this is where some countries are different than us. everyone has a stake in child

rearing. whether you personally have children or not. we're very far culturally in the united states from that kind of idea. i'm curious is that something you believe in? regardless of where i am in my life journey, i should care about whatever my gender is, i should care about the rearing of children in the ability of that to be done well in the world without impacting some -- >> i do believe that. i believe that when we let the child's -- for 41 million kids in poverty. that should devastate all of us. that countries are valid in the way they treat the women and children. and so i also leave as an activist you always support the most vulnerable. and right now, the most vulnerable in our country our mothers. and so we all have to do our part. i think you've seen other communities, whether it's black

lives matter, about race, whether it's about lgbtq. you've had communities come together and say we are being treated unfairly. we all as community need to rally around that to root out racism, to root out discrimination based on sexual orientation. i think similarly, we've never seen discrimination as against mothers as a thing. never recognized or just accepted that that's a real. what's interesting is history with equal pay day. and we had the women's soccer team. they're the pay cap. the pay gap is now between childless women. childless man. there's actually no pay gap. the largest pay gap has been childless women and mothers. . i ate how long we've been

trying to solve the pay gap, we have been clear about what the quebec pay gap is. it's about mother penalty, pure you did. we have got to recognize that working mothers are discriminated against in the workforce as a class. and yes, if you have resources, it's a little bit better. we have to start by figuring out how do you root out of discrimination against women of color? that are underserved. that's where it begins. i think when we start to see what happens to them. the choices that they have to make. i think about my omaha. my parents came years refuge jeez. i was a latchkey kid. they couldn't afford the $50 a week for childcare. i grew -- we were up as a brown family in a very white working class neighborhood. we were bullied in school.

my parents were bullied. their house was spray-painted and tp'd. because we couldn't afford childcare, my sister and i would walk the ten blocks home. i would say run the ten blocks home. lock ourselves in our house and hide. we were afraid. i think about how my mother felt at 3:45 every day win she had to let her babies walk home. the incaution bill troy says that mother's have to make every single day because we do not provide them -- we we make it harder for them. i think the revolution includes all of us. all of us. and sometimes we have incidents that happen in our life. in our history, that show that we need to do something. and covid was one of those. was that for working mothers. >> do you think that story has

been told enough? >> no. >> there has been obviously coverage and things written but this is not exactly what i like the central narratives of the pandemic. that is been one of the -- certainly not the biggest story around the pandemic in any way shape or form. >> it's not the biggest story. but god bless every single female journalist. i find it so fascinating that women would rather call the washington post or the new york times and scream then called or legislator. i think women have put so much -- the story has been kept alive. by a female journalists. is it the front page? is it -- is the thing that we as a country are united on? where is the woman's job czar? >> there are some excellent, excellent questions are coming

in from the people who are listening to us. i do want to turn to some of those, although i reserve the right to ask some for followups. these are really good questions to go to. the real bone of all we're talking about. the first one is just such a practical shin i love it and it's also the kind of thing that's right and center peoples mind. what is your advice for a woman interviewing for a new job who wants to learn about the -- company's parental policy but does not want that company to be scared of from hiring her? >> she's gotta ask. we gotta get over that. our fear in many ways has gotten us there. for all the men and women who don't have children, you have to ask. you have to ask. it's like -- i think an example of this is the amount in millennials with mental health was a huge issue and it's a huge issue. i had something on people and say to me, do you pay for my therapy? and they were a fearless when they asked. because they knew there was an

epidemic. and they knew that they -- even if they were not experiencing it, in solidarity with others, they needed to normalize it. and we need to normalize motherhood. not feel like how i'm asking -- i'm going to be distracted are not gonna be productive. we gotta normalize that we're looking to work -- that care about families. >> as hard as you can before mother's. what advice would you give to single moms trying to navigate current workplace structure is? >> again, we need to build everything from single moms. and we need to even more so fight for them. i think women who have working -- moms and partners have to figure the single moms. even if you don't think that you need subsidize childcare any don't think any paley you don't need flexibility we have to ask for it on behalf of them. so many more families today are being run by a single mothers, single parents.

and it's still operating from a two parent perspective. again, thinking pandemic is a great example of that. think about all the single mothers who had to navigate the zoom. in their work. this -- woman was telling me today that her son was making a smoothie in the middle of her call as a pharmaceutical sales person. and so so much that. we know that when that happens, suddenly you are looking at me thinking that i don't have it together or i'm not committed. we know that there is a penalty. that's the other thing. i think the motherhood penalty piece of me that gets back to pay equity day. we have to demand that every single ceo literally hire some coders, gets an algorithm, just an algorithm. and solves it. they can do that overnight. and again, i think when we saw removing it, we will start removing so many single moms are just not getting paid equitably. so not only are they having to

do themselves. they don't have the resources that they deserve to do it. >> so this is a good follow-up. kimberly asks what are the two or three things you would suggest that investors ask companies to do to support women. and then also what should consumers do to hold companies accountable? if i care about this issue and i have leverage as a consumer or as an invest. what are the practical and most impactful things to push companies to do? >> i think investors should ask i want to see your policies. i want to see your policies on maternity leave. i want to see your policies on unpaid leave. i want to see your policies -- what are you think hunter's love child care? do you think that your cost -- i'm anna borden we're always talking about nutrition. it's the biggest and if you are worried about because incredibly expensive. pushing in saying, do you think you can reduce unit -- providing some sort of

subsidizing of childcare. acknowledging that that is economic issue. i want to also know what do you do support working women's mental health? a lot of companies are seeing women leaving at a higher rate than men. so it's not just the great resignation. there is something that is profoundly different that is happening. especially with others. the other thing is that many employers don't track who's a caretaker. they don't even know who in your workforce is apparent or who could be taking care of an elderly parent. and so recognizing that as a status that math in the same way that we ask people about race or gender. because we have goals around them as we should. we should have goals around keeping and retaining working mothers because we know that they are the ones that leave at the highest rate. what are we doing doing to fix it? >> in other words, not just

looking at rates of -- women within the company but are specifically working mothers. having a career advancement the company. that super interesting. i don't know that is there anybody who does that? >> i don't know. there should be. we did this report that found that technology companies that 50% of women lead by the time the 35. that certainly by the time they're having kids. and so we think where -- the narrative used to be their leaving because they want to spend time with her kids. that's not what's happening. they're leaving because they can't have kids and work here i think companies have a hard time taking ownership. that they may be attributing or their culture might be attributing to some of this. -- one of our policy focuses is to start looking at attrition and

pick the. the motherhood bias in the motherhood penalty and start pushing companies to start collecting data on this. and offering solutions. we're starting with child hair because i actually feel like that's not crazy. meaning i actually feel it's more likely that we're going to get 50, 60, 70% of companies to start subsidizing child care. definitely for the pass the bill formerly known as build back better. >> let's -- do you think universal paid family leave will ever be passed in the u.s.? what would it actually take? >> it has to be. one of the most things that was so heartbreaking is that we were so close. so many of the advocacy organizations like plus, like paid leave for all. like marshall for moms. the philanthropic resources, the dollars that are going into making sure that those organizations thrive are like

this. like thank god for melinda gates. on her oh she make sure that there is in many ways this care movement that's thriving. and so so many of people are operating in these tiny budgets. there is a lot of starts and stuff, starts and stops. we should have a fully funded hundred million dollar sponsored by whoever. paid leave campaign. because if we don't, we're not going to get it because i actually think we did a bipartisan poll on this. republicans and democrats want this. there is the will for this. part of what i have found is we are looking into this more deeply is that it was really i think many other business coalitions that helped kill it. and there is the sense this narrative on the hill that it's too expensive, the government is not to do because companies are already providing it anyways. if you look at most of the data that's out there, whether it's

a survey done by a consulting company. they'll say do offer paid leave or not? and so the check boxes yes or no. the check box is not for how long, who's taking it, is it actually really substantive? the narrative is that everyone's getting paid leave. that is not true the other narrative is essentially that if google -- if i were could google and google essentially -- i'm not saying google's doing this but if they're offering paid leave. they're not fighting against the build back better bill. to offer it for everybody else. holding all those companies accountable. the chamber. everybody who's a member of the chamber. accountable. for making paid leave not happen for the millions of women who don't have it. for the vast majority who don't. >> it's a really interesting -- that's an interesting thing to look at. just not just their policy but their lobbying for. >> he said how do we do this for all of us? it can't just before you.

because that system doesn't change of us just for you. >> so one of the questions from our audiences. really talking about which is why this isn't a priority. i think the only way we make more progress is if we elect more women's to position the path her to be able to elevate legislate these policies and the faith and federal levels. fundraising for female candidates is challenging and we all know many -- how can we change that paradigm? >> it's true. the women that were there fighting, fighting, fighting where all the women. grace mae, senator gillibrand. amy klobuchar. they were the ones that were trying to keep -- there just wasn't enough of them. i think that's right. we have to have more women serving. i also think we have got to create a movement of moms this is what we're trying to do with pay -- we have to create a moon imams are fighting for issues that affect moms there are lots of

greater positions imams fighting for their kids. mothers against drunk driving. mothers for climate change. we're great. you sauce out there to open up the schools against the masks. the nonsense i will say on critical race theory. in full force. we don't fight for ourselves. that same energy, for all those moms across the country that we're trying to take books out of schools was put into paid leave and affordable child care. we would have those things. we have got to figure out, they want those things. so it's not that those same women want those things. we've got to figure out from a movement activist perspective how we fix that in the cycle. the politicians are scared of us. but they're not scared enough.

so the threat of isis threatening. but we didn't have 1 million women munching on washington because we're so tired. >> what would you do with the kids if you went to march? i >> had a zoom school them. >> do you think that that is always going to be an issue? how can you -- >> i'm going to make sure it's not. it's not. because it's like -- i think we -- i see a gap and i think other people see a gap now. i think the issue on the left is to really start getting people to boost art embracing organizing as mothers and that doesn't mean we're leaving anybody out. i think that that is challenging. their sort is a shuns that are fighting for their issues. dedicated to the things that every single day benefit us.

we're so used to being martyrs. we think oh gosh is that too selfish? that i should be spending time? people with older kids they -- it's why we still fight for choice. even though -- i want to protect my right so forever. i want to protect this institution of motherhood because i really believe that in many ways that is the conflict. that is my big a hot south. this pass women's history month, , there are probably hundreds of millions of sessions about how to get -- a sponsor. how to raise your hand. how to invest. really, there should've been never panel chauvin like how to get the man in his office to do more laundry. let's all audit our corporate policies and figure which are the ones that are helping exacerbate the gender inequality that's happening in my home? how do we have a 50/50 goal here at goldman sachs -- gets that ratio of 50 50%.

can you imagine? we are being distracted. again. we're being distracted to telling -- telling us to fix ourselves. we're not the problem. >> you are essentially saying that i need to be in organizing effort and it needs to be not like going back to fix a warm or fix the workplace. the question is am i doing something wrong, that means that i can't balance responsive disease that i have? or is there something systemic that is -- >> there something systemic but that doesn't mean that you can't fight for the system to change. it's not about you. the system has to change and that's what we see as a bigger landscape. this is, hard sally. there is an industry -- corporate feminism. i got like 100 teachers mike clause about how this will be a girl boss. you're asking the very people who for the past 30, 40 years

have been telling all of us to work a little harder. and we'll get there, we'll get there. and so can you imagine of all these women in business organizations. all of these women's organization started saying like me, we were wrong. we've been focused on the wrong thing. we gotta shift our focus and focus on equalizing unpaid labor. imagine what would be possible. in that sense, about the woman, i'm going to own that as the ceo of girls who co-. that i need to tell my students and people who look up to me something very different. this -- second piece is -- the only way that the structure is going to change simply fight for it. and we make sure that our allies and our partners we fight for it to. no no one's going to give it to us. it's not in their interest. it's not -- and you see that by two years of the pandemic.

productivity, stock market through the roof. systematically, nothing has changed in terms of the cost of child, caretakers being so down. we still have variants constantly around. but yet still there is this push to return to the old world. they're not thinking about us. they're thinking about them. >> there is one question i'm going to ask that came from the audience which was referring to the title playing off the title of your book. what are the ways that people in the workplace, women in the workplace, can push for salary transparency? which many people feel is a critical issue for -- >> huge. i think that we -- we have to start demanding it from each other. i've done that. new york state now, you have to actually start putting your salary on job descriptions. i also think that there is a statewide push that we can make to have that. i think if you are a sea level or a manager and you do have a say when you think about how

are we recruiting people. what's going to help. people are gosar asking for. it we couldn't post a job opening on twitter without having a salary ban because will get hit for it. again, it goes back to the kids. they want transparency on this. this is the way that we are moving. i do think that that will help with -- when you first get into a job. the question is, the inequalities still grows over time and the promotion. how do you get transparency unpacked? >> that's a really good question. so there is a lot of audience response that is from things like saying how wonderful it was that you sort of exhibited or illustrated the issues that women face and -- it was a lot of like support that you handled it with such grace. and also i think just empathy

that we all have these things happen to us. >> i'm gonna go kill my husband. >> there was a lot of praise for you on how you handle that situation. my favorite thing is someone said thank you for addressing the major issue that is landry -- probably speaks to each of us. with the husband or the partners does the laundry bad. it becomes sort of an issue where you're like well, i just -- all just take it on. just a lot of support for everything that you're doing. i'm going to ask just one final question. which is really and then we'll wrap it up. this is been such an amazing conversation. my only regret is we should have these conversations in the middle of the pandemic because of so fascinating to i'm frilled you've written this book we could've harness even at so -- i don't think we have time for the energy to do that but there

was such an exciting thing to think about. my question for you. my question for you is where are you but also not just you as a person although it superintendent that. you as a person who believes in this cause. where you go from there. are so you've laid out manifesto. you're going to talk to companies and try to get them to make men's. how would you build that? how would you build on that to make the most progress? or how are you intending to build on that? i am igniting a revolution. when i decide there's a problem i want to, solve i don't stop until i do. that is exactly what i -- really were saying this yesterday. oh, that's cute, your teaching girls to code. that's what we're doing it is here. this is a moments once in a lifetime moment. for someone who's been fighting for women in goal girl since i was 13, i don't want to die

fighting for the wrong thing. this is the problem that we have to solve. i do believe in my heart, again, canada and norway are great examples. if we can fix this, we can get to equality. all of the girls can dream of being president and ceo and living their own destiny. can dream of being a mom and taking care of your kid for four or five or 67 years and going back into the workforce. and being able to go back into the workforce. it is that preserving that ability to move in and out. it is so critical. so, we got to ignite this fire. i think we can. one, it does begin, like, i'm not asking you to march. i'm not asking you to call your congressman. i am asking you to advocate for one thing for yourself. get our tool kit.

sign up to be an advocate. i want you to feel, women need to feel like we are back in control of our lives. in the profile in the washington post, when i said the, and i believe it. there's 40 million of us that have gone through some version of a collective experience. that is a lot of millions. >> that is amazing. i think we're all in huge of your energy and your intensity and your commitment to. this is one's pleasure to speak tonight. thank you so much. really, thank you on behalf of everyone who joined us. this has been really inspiring. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> i echo the gratitude. this is very on brand rebook. we love it. special thanks to you. and especially to, you sally.

to be with us in the overseeing coverage of ukraine. thank you for everyone in the audience for joining us. that link to purchase the book is in the chat box. we are going to email everyone that link as well. we hope you will come back and see us soon. you can check out our calendar. until then, take care and goodnight. emotions play an important and vital role in your everyday life. not always moment to moment unless you're talking about a fact. but emotional experience happen much more often than people think. it is not just when you get really angry at the driver for cutting you off. that's not the only time the day that you're feeling a motion. you are feeling it in a much more and subtle and every day normal situation.

and all through the day. your emotions are what prompt you to do and take many reactions. if you had no feelings at all, if you are just a robot with no feelings, that was what data was supposed to be on star trek. at least spoke with human. data was purely an emotional. what would cause you to even do anything. you have no desire or goals or enjoyment or joy. why would you get up off your chair unless your program specifically said at 9:00 it up and go make coffee or whatever it is our current robots do. it would never initiate action on its own unless was programed into it. i talk about how that works and how emotion is really vital. >> you can watch the full program at book tv dot org. just search leonard or the title of his book, emotional.

james o'keefe and your new book american james, and your new book america muckraker, rethinking journalism for the 24 century, you write that there is an indecently close and personal and professional relationship between reporters and the people they are supposed to cover. is that a bad thing? >> yes