and so i that's leading up to the fair. there are a bunch of art installations and others a building, you know dedicated to artistic pursuits, but i can't sorry. i can't speak specifically to their involvement, you know on a piece by piece in the world's fair. i that i don't know. that's great context though. thank you. okay, so a couple people are curious about the international exhibition of 1939 in san francisco. which do we know is there any connection between the two of them? there are competing world's fairs that year in fact in that opening clip of roosevelt giving his speech which is a guy hereby declare the world's fair and he pauses and says the new york world's fair open because there are concurrent fares and i again, i don't know the specifics but there are worlds fairs that are the big events

every four to five years and then there are worlds expos that are on off years. so the 1937 paris event that i depicted there was an expo the 1939 was a world's fair and so for whatever reason there's no connection in terms of it's not like the same organization that runs new york also runs san francisco, but they bid for and got an expo the same year the full world's fair was going on and so there was a sort of intercoastal competition, but from you know, what are the corporation that runs the new york is unconnected to the one that runs san francisco by what i understand. wonderful. thank you. okay, so other than the company exhibits so like general electric or any of the others did the us as a country have an exhibit or not because it was hosting so the us sets up their

pavilion as the parisphere so the big round building there was an image of or they're putting the democracy in it with all the basically depicting the suburb. that's meant to be sort of the centerpiece of the fair and the us contribution the us also exhibits a bunch of its technologies and a bunch of different expo buildings. so like the television the light bulbs these things are on display as the us has contribution because typically what the country's bring are cultural displays feats of science and technology and then products that their country excels at making so the soviets for example their feet of science and technology was they had just recently conquered the arctic they have been doing these expeditions up to the arctic circle with flights and people going up there so they had put a big arctic display up with like polar bears and these planes that would win in you know, this wild display of the arctic. are technological feats so yeah, the us does have a sort of a

number of different exhibits, but they're centerpieces the parisphere and the trilon the big tower that they that they put up as sort of a visual grandiose thing because like the olympics the host country is supposed to like show off and build these grandiose things and that's what they build in fact one other side note that parisphere was supposed to be engineers so that it looked like it was floating on this fountain that was blasting up underneath it, which would have been really cool, but they couldn't make the engineering work. i'm so it just sat there above above a pond. and speaking of you had mentioned that at the 64 they had rockets and space stuff. so someone was curious if there were any aeronautical exhibits of planes or rockets or anything like that at the 39 world's fair. yes, there were so air travel lots of exhibits about that

showing off modern aircraft. so aluminum bodied aircraft rather than like wood and fabric biplanes, which is what we really had in the 1920s, but the big like so the aircraft sure the big exhibits the things people were most interested in were trains. they showed how they had a whole show about afra. the name of it slipping my mind, but like showing the evolution of railway travel from the old wild west to these like modern sleek bullet trains. they even had a high speed steam powered train running between i think was baltimore and new york to bring people up to the fair. are so it's these modern trains which are still steam powered although general motors did have on display the newest technology in locomotive, which was a diesel electric train, which is what we used today. and if you i should have put a picture up but like it looks like a modern train what you would recognize as like a freight train engine. that's what it looks like. so trains are really big but

it's the cars the automobiles and the highways that people are just fascinated. little on space travel a little on rockets rocketry was sort of seen as being like amateur child's play through the 1920s it didn't it wasn't big yet until really after world war two when again hitler overshadows his whole fair when hitler proves in the war with their vengeance rockets that like rocketry can work and i can work as a weapon a really effective weapon. so where the us devotes enormous funding to developing the atomic bomb as our super weapon hitler defend devotes enormous funding to developing rocket engines to launch to cap a bomb with and launch at london. so yeah less about space travel that doesn't become a thing until the 1950s when people get fascinated really with it, even though like we know about space ht wells and more of the worlds and all of that but yeah less so

about that. great. thank you. okay, so someone wants to know who are some of the maybe now famous architects that were commissioned designed some of the pavilions. is there anyone that stands out or is more of a household name i guess. no idea that someone's clearly interested into architecture. so i yeah that i that that's beyond the realm of what i know, but i mean if we're looking at world's fairs in general in the 1800s, i think it was the 1893 chicago world's fair. there is a big amount of hoopla over the fact that a woman had designed one of the buildings that's in the 1800s. but yeah, i i don't know about architects specifically, but they did typically bring in, you know, these architects who built these big grandiose designs architecturally one of the problems was how do you build a building like that?

you know gm building 10 stories tall. look, it's amazing the parisphere and trilon build it cheaply because you're gonna tear it down in just two years. so again in earlier days, there was all kinds of problems of like buildings being built really flimsy because again, like i'm not gonna highly engineer this thing it's gonna be scrap in two years. buildings would blow over in the wind and all that. in fact the parisphere the round building in a heavy storm parts of the facade ripped off of it because they were just sort of like stuck on the outside again. you don't need this to last more than two years. so aside from how the buildings are built. i don't know who actually built them. not to worry. okay, so i know you mentioned attendance surging at for example the uk pavilion but someone is curious. what was the attendance in general like in 1940 versus 1939. it is many people come the second year. we're not so much. so the attendance of these

things like everything that everything like this the projections were wild we're gonna get 60 to 80 million people attending the fair and and they ended up getting i i don't recall how it broke down in each year like 25 million one year and around that or a little bit less the second year the numbers. so one of the things they tried is because they had projected, you know, 60 million people and that's kind of what they needed to make good on their financial promises there the attendance never hit anywhere near what they thought it would and so right at the end i think of season one and certainly in season 2 they lowered the price which did bring in some more people. but again, it kind of would have fizzled a little bit the problem with lowering the price was they had pre-sold a bunch of seasons passes at the higher price, and now people wanted refunds because they're think they're getting ripped off and so

financially and attendance wise it's became a kind of calamity. they expected i think near a million people on opening day. they got 200,000 and i think 44 million overall, which is nothing to sneeze at but is not the 60 million they needed so there were you know an overall attendance. it was a well. it's not a flop 44 million is certainly not a flop but it didn't reach the level that they had hoped in inside the fair. there was all kinds of competition over. yeah who's exhibits gonna be the best and in season two the british exhibit became really popular right after the invasion of poland the polish exhibit became really popular, which is swarmed with people, but overall the number one exhibit with with highest attendance was the general motors exhibit. you know people would wait three hours to get into it it our average about 30,000 people a

day riding there. it was a ride you rode through the building to look at this, you know amazing. display of what the 1960s would look like. so general motors takes the cake as being the best attended exhibit at the fair. great. thank you. so someone did ask if it was a financial success and from your answer. i'm assuming it wasn't it was not it wasn't a complete bust but it's very rare like the olympics. it's very rare that these things make money. the corporation had borrowed a bunch of money with the promise of paying it back at certain interest rates and then started trying to convince the people often. it was corporations who got the seed funding in there first and when it was clear that they weren't gonna get paid back but pennies on the dollars, they tried to use it as a pr thing like yes, i support the fair because it's a good civic, you know project but yeah financially financially it was not profitable. and what was the public reaction

or opinion to the fair? that's a good question because it kind of ties in with the lack of profitability in that one of the public's reactions was that it was too expensive. this is the midst of the great depression ticket prices. they thought were too high but the biggest complaints were that the food prices inside the fair. we're way too high. okay, it's always funny today. they were complaining that a hamburger cost of dime. that was too much money. and so while people were, you know, they were fascinated by this people, you know cried during the gm exhibit. they just it was really overwhelming in a way. people were attracted to the technologies and all of that but you know, it's still the midst of the great depression and people complained about the price and the food so much that yeah the the tickets sales the price was cut and then the fair had to promise that later that year. they would have cheaper food

options available inside the fair that it wouldn't be such a you know, a money grab so people were cheap. that seems to be like if you read the media accounts, they're complaining a lot about the price of the fair and partly not to say that it was underwhelming but partly the reason they never hit the attendance targets they had hoped is that it just didn't generate the buzz that people had hoped and will never know if that's because the war breaks out and people aren't willing, you know, people are pulling back on their spending aren't willing to go have this fun celebratory thing. it's hard to say. it's funny. it hasn't changed much right you go to you know, disney world and we're still talking all our beer at the stadium or something. yeah. we'll always complain about price of food any who so someone else want to know could new york or some other us metropolis make a latter day world fairer expo a financial success or has the

magic of everyday electronic technologies and permanent exhibitions like disney world's epcot rendered world's fairs and exposed passe. um no, and yes, i think is the answer there, but it's yeah the part of the reason these things fizzled is they are enormously expensive. they almost never turn a profit. they take it all these resources to build and what really it's become is that countries don't need this anymore. right? like we don't really do this. we don't need a huge exposition to show off how great we are and get all these countries together. i think partly it's become supplanted by the olympics which we have the same complaints about like it's too expensive countries lose a bunch of money on it. then you're left with all this infrastructure. you can't use afterwards if things just get torn down so i think that's a big part of it. i think also now in most major

countries, there's just not these huge swaths of open land available in the cities anymore, which is where they used to build it, you know and philadelphia they built it sort of in the middle of the city and new york. it's just on long island. um, but space in these places again. these are huge fairs huge unbelievably huge. so i think that's one of the things and i think that person who asked that question is right that like maybe we've gotten jaded or we're just like there's i can't even think of a technology now that excites me the way from what i've read. i wasn't around in the 1960s but like the way that like the space race excited people the way that electronics excited people robots excited people in that way now, it's what like the most exciting thing is virtual reality and the metaverse, which is entirely lame, you know, if you ask me i'm not gonna go to world's fair to see, you know, put on goggles and look around and see a fake world around me. i think that you know, and

mainly the fact that we have less time life is more busy and there's just such a plethora of entertainment options that i'm not gonna spend two weeks going to a world's fair. to walk around for the day to see things that i already see so that's on one hand that naturally as i'm talking this through. i think even now that it used to be exciting in an era before mass advertising and commercialization which comes up really after the 1950s. it was exciting to go to the fair and go to a corporate exhibit and see general motors cars. i mean, they're just giant advertising platforms. but like that was cool to see all the new things on offer. so yeah, i think it's we've lost our sense of childbike. hope for the future in that way and we just numb ourselves with the, you know endless entertainment available and the personal note here is i too when i started researching world's fairs number of years ago was kind of surprised to see that

they're still going on the one in and even that like one of the things i study a lot and love the research of his food and the 2015 world's fair in italy. surrounded or revolved around food and as a researcher on this topic. i didn't even know that thing was going on. i might have gone to it, but just didn't know didn't know that right now. there's one going on. so yeah, it's lost. it's a lure and i'm not sure this thing will ever really come back in a big way that inspires people like it used to and speaking of food. we've actually got in a question or two surrounding food from the fairs. so first law how did food displays represent the future of food production preparation and consumption consumption if they did at all. oh, that's a good question. i don't know off the top of my head that i recall that they represented the future of food production and consumption. i don't. from what i've come across there is no like futuristic space

foods available at the time, especially then it was essentially most of the countries would in their pavilions have cafeterias that highlighted their own national dishes, you know, trying to think of an example. i wish i had sort of flipped through my notes to think of an example of a food that was on display that you could go to a cafeteria and eat the thing i do know is that the problem was often eating in like the national cafeterias was more expensive than eating at the fairgrounds outside the pavilions, and so people complained about that too, but it's more of we're coming to show you our quote unquote foreign foods, i guess. well if i'm finland and coming it's not a foreign food to me, but we're gonna put on our national dishes the fair did make a big show out of out of saying that they're gonna offer cheaper hot dogs and hamburgers to the masses, but i i can't think of any yeah food corporation that put on a new

display. it was really the big corporate giants like general motors and goodyear tires that set up like it was firestone tires that set up an actual factory to show you how a tire was made. of course, they called it the tire of tomorrow, but you had a working factory, which i guess is cool to look at but it'd be neat if they had food factories, but even then the mechanization of food really hits in the 1950s and after world war two, so, yeah, that's another thing. i i can't give specifics on. so someone excited excitedly put into the q&a the belgian waffle, so maybe that was one well, so that it like one of the technologies they displayed was an electric waffle iron. so yeah, you can use the iron to make waffles and that might have been exciting that you can do this in your own home. so yeah that that is a food product on display. um, and someone else said that you always hear about how the

ice cream cone was invented for or at the chicago world's fair. are there any that were created? at the 1939 new york world's fair like something that wasn't put on display necessarily but kind of came out of it anyway. um specifically in terms of food, not that i'm aware of it is often world's fairs that sort of launched new food innovations, you know the ice cream cone. the hamburger was launched at the allegedly one of the many origin stories was launched in the 1904 fair where they wanted to take a beef patty and put it between two pieces of bread so you could walk around while munching on it the hamburger before that wasn't really popular in the us i can tell you one of the things the organizers wanted to do, but didn't that they wanted to again as a marketing thing wanted to make hot dogs and hot dog buns in the shape of that trilon that that big tri-sided tower beside the

round building. that's they were gonna do that as a marketing thing. maybe that would have been cool. maybe hot dogs would be these like triangle shapes today if that had really taken off but you know what comes out of the fair on not on the food side certainly television skyrockets and really takes off after the 1850s the new modern automobiles definitely the highway system that they put on display there, you know takes 20 years, but but becomes now ubiquitous it's how we drive around today on these cloverleafed interchanges and these superhighways even if even with like radar-guided cars with collision avoidance and all of that. so yeah, there are some things that that have stuck around that come out of the 19 of the world's fair. all right, so i think we have time for maybe two more questions and then i'm gonna ask you one question after that. that's not necessarily content related, but someone noticed something in your background that they want me to touch on

but she probably know what it is. like i can guess. yeah, so someone wanted to know how many structures and buildings are built for the fair are still standing today, and i know you alluded to you weren't sure so if you don't know let me know because we've gotten a few people that wrote in about this. yeah one there's one building that may remained and it was constructed with the intention that it would remain after the fair. actually. i think it's a government building today, but they kept one it was maybe this relates back to the person who asked about architecture. so it's the infamous robert moses the highway builder of new york city who had a hand in designing this fair and he wanted after the fair was over to turn this into a big part much like central park which i understand parts of it were maybe even to this day. so yeah almost all of the buildings saved for that one central one were torn down and scrapped which was pretty common

in the context of world's fairs. you'd keep like one little centerpiece and the rest gets thrown in the trash or in this case melted down and and made into bullets and tanks some of the countries dismantle their their pavilions. they're made to be, you know easily to take apart and they ship them back home famously, you know, russia i mentioned ships there is back home and they used i'm gonna get this mixed up whether it's the 1937 or 1939, but they always tended to at the peak of the tower on their buildings put this huge bronze statue of a man and woman like charging into the future and communist glory that element is now in a park in moscow on actually on a fairgrounds in moscow. they kept so some countries keep pieces of them. i mean most famously the eiffel tower in paris was the centerpiece of their 1889 world's fair it too was meant to be torn down after the fair, but

they left it up now. it's an icon of paris so like good for them, but there's nothing really iconic that stayed behind about the world the fair in new york. great. thank you. and it looks like we have a couple new yorkers in the audience because they mentioned it's now flushing meadow park. so anyone who's in new york and wants to go and imagine what it might have looked like back then you should there we go. so, okay. so that's a new part of it at least was turned into a park. so there we go over dog. okay, so final content question. you showed a bunch of different technologies and you might have alluded to the answer to this a little bit but out of the technologies that were showed at the fair which was the most successful in which was the least successful now that have, you know, hindsight. yeah, i mean the television i think is the most successful. i mean that of course it dominates our life today and you know, it wasn't invented at the fair as i mentioned wasn't even debuted technically at the fair

the nazi speedest to that but this ability to transmit, you know, images and news and everything, uh stalls out because of world war two and then by the 1950s is just you know rocketing so certainly the television the least successful i think is that notion of like flying cars. it's something that they talked about in the 1930s. they certainly play up in the 1950s that this idea is just around the corner we talk about now or flying cars just around the corner or companies working to develop them and it's not gonna happen like so, you know starting in 1939 they were talking about building buildings with landing pads for everyone's private flying car. so the part of the car didn't work out the radar, you know the ability for car to track the car ahead of it and speed up and slow down cars have that now? still relatively recent so that took but 80 90 years to come to

fruition, but certainly the highway system is as i mentioned earlier the idea of the suburbs that you'd live outside the city and you'd commute in and your private car that vision. worked and part of me as always did this research i wished they kind of would have kept some of these exhibits. i really wish gm and the parisphere the democracy would still you know, they put it in a museum. so we today could go back and look at rather than just seeing it in pictures or reading about it what they thought the future would be because i think if you went through the gm exhibit today, it would look like a lot like today minus the flying cars, of course. fair enough. okay. so now the non-content question someone's just curious if you use the typewriter in the rotary phone behind you. the the typewriter. yes, it works. it's the 1926 the rotary phone. no, it works.

i would assume i'm using years. but yeah the phone it was my father's the typewriter. i don't know where that one came from. i've got a number of typewriters. so yeah the phone no, but the typewriter. yes, you know like i'm stuck in 1939 on the consummate historian. i use it to write letters to friends and family. so it's it's functional. awesome. well, thank you so much. that is all the time we have for today. so thank you to our audience for joining us and for your great questions and thank you alan for

are historian and joseph ellis as well cnn. >> good evening everyone my name is kevin butterfield on behalf of george washington mount vernon and the ladies organization continues to protect and preserve it today, i want to welcome me too this conversation about george washington's farewell address. on september 19, 1796 george

washington announced to the world he would not seek reelection to the presidency. his letter to friends and citizens offer some of the much thorough, thoughtful and inspiring advice has ever been given to the american people. in more than a few genuine warnings were included there as well. the hopes and fears remained with us as a nation are now discussing this now 225 year old document. much of what we debate and discuss in 21st century america politics is addressed here in one form or another. in recognition of this document we brought together an incredible lineup of talented scholars to reflect on the relevance of the farewell address today. we were joined by jon avalon author, columnist, senior political analyst, is the author of books including the one we will discuss tonight washington's farewell a new book on abraham lincoln coming out next february. his work is going to be

important to our conversation here tonight as were the work of lindsey stravinsky. she is presidential cabinet, history senior fellow at southern methodist university. in the lecture of media and public affairs at george washington university she's also a fellow at the international. she's the author of the award-winning book the cabinet george washington and the creation of an american institution. i was when the leading scholars of american history author of more than a dozen books else has been awarded the pulitzer prize for founding brothers the revolutionary generation and the national book award for america stinks, his biography of thomas jefferson and most recent book, the cause, the american revolution that discontent comes out tomorrow. all of our guests are great friends of mount vernon. were so pleased to be able to

offer signed copies of their books. look for links in the chat that can help you find those and of course please feel free to visit us anytime at mount vernon.org. welcome. >> hey. thanks for having us. >> are here to discuss a really important document in american history. i guess the farewell address. i give the tiny little preview of what it is just imagine someone coming into the conversation right now, what is the formal address john will turn to you first, what is the text? >> it is america's original >> scripture. it is most widely printed completely declaration of independence. it was the sum total of wisdom that george washington accumulated and a life of war and peace as president that he put down first with james mattis and alexander hamilton

as a warning to his friends and fellow citizens which is how he addressed it, about the forces he felt could derail the democratic experiment going forward. it's one of the most relevant document you can imagine. even though it fell out of favor for a time, i think when it is read today it is a stark warning about the dangers of what we call hyper- partisanship, excessive debt, foreign wars, foreign interference in our elections and also suggest some of the liberty some the things we can draw upon to avoid the straps. that unity of morality and virtue. the importance of fiscal discipline and political moderation. >> they turn to you, lindsay, george washington create a text john mentioned there were other authors, can you tell us

a little bit about the years leading up to this. this is a moment he decides not to be present any longer. as a great scholar of washington's presidency set the page of those last months or days in the washington presidency as he's thinking this address appeared cocksure. i did not want to stand for second term at all. he had wanted to be in office for a couple of years and hightail it as soon he could they did not really like being president he had to be away from home has so much stress and pressure he knew every step to establish a precedent for this to come after him. he did not like criticism he was wearing his reputation met he would be damaged by a poor choice. we also had a real commitment to the importance of being an

office. felt very strongly the american people the election of peaceful transfer of power had to be practiced and cultivated. he was determined to try to oversee that. early in 1796 they had a conversation about the process rolling shared a series of drafts of the next two months until september washington

then published his paper in september to reach the maximum number of people to make it clear he was speaking to the people not to congress or different branch of government too. >> will be spending most of that's our time talking about the text itself. what can you tell me, what would you add about the origins of what led up to the creation of this document you might want to share about washington before 1796? >> i would venture to guess john and the modern presidency no president in the american's who did not want to be president more than george bush. not on a second term he did not want a first term. and when he was going up to that in york he said he felt like a prisoner going to jail. and he really meant it.

almost half have to do with mount vernon. that was where he wanted to be. he really did. all of the views of the presidency are shaped by it 20th century significance. washington did not regard the presidency as the capstone of his career. when he was she did not have to do. the great thing he did was win the war. i think that is true of all four of the presidents, the first floor. adam's great thing this before the revolution to bring it into meaning. jeffersons was the declaration. madisons was the constitution and the federalist papers. all of them did not think about the presidency is the great moment in their lives. washington was aficionado of

residence. even before that and newburgh refusing to become dictator annapolis where the capitol was the surrender of his commission george the third is that it can't be if the depth does that he be the greatest man in the world. well he did and for that moment at least he was. jefferson writes about this right after. i think jefferson actually wrote some of washington's speech i can't prove that. but jefferson says one man saved us from the fate that befalls most republics. there thinking cromwell, subsequently they can think of napoleon, we can think of now,

we can think of castro a variety of who never run away from office. those that might still be alive in american politics. but the president is ratified as a constitutional amendment in 1951 i believe. the real president all leaders, no matter how indispensable are disposable. you do not die in office like a monarch.

the dominant thing we need to remember is this was not ever delivered as an address. now both of our commentators already know that but we have not mentioned it. it was not a speech was an open letter to the american people that first appeared in a philadelphia paper and then i think a new hampshire paper gives that the farewell address. but that initial reaction to the address is oh my god, he cannot leave us. it was like the father saying to the children, you are on your own then. and that was a trauma. nobody thought he was ever going to retire. fate presumed he would win elections until he died.

and again he could not wait to get back to the place where you are sitting, kevin. >> jim reference something you write about this in your book, this is not the first bit of advice washington shared a widely with the nation. could you tell us a little bit about washington back in 1783 in how we also his guidance of the nation. >> that was originally called his farewell address. >> i did not know that is that true? >> yes. that is a true story. what is fascinating about that is first of all there's continuity. with the power of the gesture itself the simple act of voluntarily relinquishing power itself was they were

referring to jefferson and an epilogue to my book i think it's perfectly crystallizes washington throughout his career. jefferson said the virtue of a single character probably prevented this regulation from enclosed azimuth other has been by a subversion it was intended to establish. and certainly there were some of the stakes in 1783 as well. the normal course of events was the military leader would displace the tyrant and then become a tyrant himself. so, talk about the prevalence of ancient roman and greek precedent on this young republic, this was a real step he took. he was a voluntarily relinquishing power it was completely genuine. the advice he gives in 1783 is

very similar albeit subsequently seek through the prism of fights he saw as president and the fights over the ratification of the treaty in america's foreign policy. basically says first of all this is not a time of celebration. now we need to establish the republican show the world we can establish republic on a scale never before seen, right? among other things it was wisdom a democracy could not exist. it would never work in a country as big as the 13 colonies. one is about the need for national unity. in fighting with cottonelle congress all throughout the war. cannot find a sense of resolve her focus on the common good. did not want to levy to support the troops.

with a sense of unity and think as citizens. i think one of the important points is independence and freedom can be sort of a state of nature. liberty requires responsibility. excuse me i'm just finishing at lincoln book right now. that is what washington said in the 1783 address. and again in 1796. >> one of the things i can do tonight and hopefully can start this now is bring up a few of the short quotations people can pull out of the farewell address. >> this one i would like to bring up because as we were discussing if you read down to the bottom that refers to the method is given this kind of advice before. this interest in warning of a parting friend. possibly have no personal motive at this council.

this was the way he begins his right after i can't read the exact phrase he has a few paragraphs and then he said here perhaps i should stop. but then he goes on many, many paragraphs longer to give some serious advice to the american people. when you see phrases like this, a disinterested morning how does it sit with washington as leader and president of you as he really did see himself as president for all of the american people. at least for the american people really wanted to represent them regardless of their partisan identity was. that might be out little rose

glassing the situation. there is bias he by the end of his presidency what she did not necessarily want to admit. he felt like certain sides of been more critical of him domestic rebellions things like about. but he wanted to see himself as above those things. he did with a political president we had for sure. and his leading office leaves and more creative to do that. had he still been in office there is no way people would have been disinterested they would've been for a third term. but by leaving office he had put himself in that elevated position give out advice and claim to be disinterested even if some -- what is really fast and about the reception to this farewell address is people who are inclined to

think well of him saw it as disinterested as he had intended. those were inclined to see him as a more political actor thought it was very political. >> disinterested warnings of a parting friend how do you read that guidance? >> i agree with what was just said print limiter try to on that a little bit. political parties the founders as a group including washington all regarded political parties as evil vultures that were floating to the political atmosphere. jefferson even claimed if i have to go to heaven as a third-party i prefer not to go at all. washington believed and said i think john adams is the only other president.

and so and washington's second term, now political scientists think the creation of political parties is one of the major contributions they made but because it disciplines dissent and the possibility of opposition which is a good thing. washington and adams let's stick with washington was incapable of thinking a political parties anything other than an evil intrusion. he could not see himself as the head of a party. and so you might think he's in an actor is him he is a classical figure in that. i would build on something again. the aurora, you look up and

textbooks they will say the opposing party that comes into existence is called the democratic republican party. wrong. it's not called the democratic republican party it is called the republican party buried the word democrat and democracy as an epitaph in the h century it means mob rules. democratic republican does not come until 1860 with monroe. it is tricky because that party morphs into the democratic party. it's even worse that the federals morphed and it's really tricky. but the aurora is the 18th century, john, you might comment on this, fox news. and when they publish the forged documents, forged british documents claiming washington throughout the war was really a trader he was

trying to be of benedict arnold but got feet to the punch by benedict arnold. this was just off the top stuff. and actually, among the people commenting on his farewell address was thomas paine he hated him because he didn't think washington got them out of france fast enough. he said we must all devoutly pray for his imminent death. and so the criticism he was a getting too. >> it's pretty funny by the way he was famously an atheist. >> that is true he was. you mean pain not washington. the level of partisanship in the 1790s is comparable to what we are facing in washington now, okay? the press there were no rules

for the press. all the news fit to print. now, washington stands firmly against that whole thing. he thanks of you have any problems you can vote me out of the next election. but the level of partisanship in the newspapers in the 1790s is scatological. in washington really cannot understand that. he does not understand it. only think he is hurt by it. i think he survives the french and indian war. he should have been killed when he was a young man. he should've been killed several times. he was not even a wounded but they wounded him in his second term they really got him. he could not wait to get out of there. i know we want to move int