leon white. vietnam war correspondent and author, peter oz ows. elizabeth becker, former u.s. ambassador to vietnam,raymond bkhardt. and former life and time magazine photo journalist, mark godfrey. the end of the vietnam war, 50 years later. live saturday 9 am eastern from george washington university. on american history tv, on c-span two. book tv, every sunday on c-span two features leading authors discussing the latest nonfiction books. at 8 pm eastern, former bridgewater associate ceo and 2022 u.s. candidate outlines his vision for a better future for america with his book, superpower in peril. at 10 pm, on afterwards, david jim, author of mud street reflects on her families american experience across five generations and the impact that

chinese exclusion act had on her family and community. she is interviewed by -- mary lou. watch book tv, every sunday on c-span two. and find the full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at book tv dot org. >> with us is hanover's low, ski she's the chief advocacy officer for the national reliance on mental illness. here to talk to us about mental health when it comes to gun violence. the proposed an actual red flag laws that are some states are implementing. first of, all your organization, the national reliance on mental illness, what is your role? who funds your organization? >> thanks so much for having me. so tsunami is an organization that provides resources, education and support for people with mental health

conditions and their family members. we've been around for over 40 years. we really advocate to improve the live -- >> when you say advocate, are you advocating to the public, but also do you lobby state and -- congress legislation? >> we are a nonprofit organization but we do lobby to improve systems to make sure that there is better mental health services in place, that there is affective mental health care programs at the federal level and then we have over 49 state chapters in over 600 local affiliates across the country advocating at the state and local level. >> certainly in the recent shootings, the mass shootings, there have been pointed out that a number of those shooters have had backgrounds or troubled backgrounds with some mental health concerns. some with actually some mental health problems. in the wake of that, the issue

of red flag laws, the use of red flag laws has risen in stature and people paying attention to it. how bless understand what red flag laws are and how do they work and what states are using them across the country? >> red flag laws are also called extreme risk protection orders. they are civil court orders that temporarily remove firearms from individuals who are displaying risk factors of harming themselves or other individuals. currently 19 states plus the district of columbia have these laws on the books. they've increased significantly in the last five years. >> how did they get implemented? who is the person to say the issue that red flag? >> ultimately it is a judge who makes the decision. but anyone can -- not anyone, there are different factors and different states,

their state by state laws. so law enforcement in every state can petition the court to remove those guns temporarily. some states also allow family members to file those petitions. school administrators, in some cases mental health care providers or other health care providers. and in one, case, even coworkers can petition the court to remove those firearms. >> you mentioned the family members, they can petition the court. family members concerned that one of their other members of the family has firearms, has some troubling issues, what are the steps they should take to do that? to approach law enforcement or a judge to say hey, we are concerned about my son, my daughter, et cetera. and can we get a red flag law? can we use the red flag law? >> yeah, the process looks a little different in each state. but essentially you can get an

ex party hearing which is an urgent hearing in front of the court to remove those firearms for short term period. that is usually about three weeks. and that will be followed up by a second hearing with the court where the petitioner will have to testify and the individual in question would also have an opportunity to present evidence and have their due process. typically, the period is six months to a year that those firearms are removed. and they can be renewed overtime. so if after a year, the individual doesn't display that they -- the situation has changed, the court terminated that court order. >> how do you judge the effectiveness of a red flag law? >> there's some really good data. the biggest thing as a mental health organization is that we look at far arms as they relate to suicide. more than half of all can deaths are suicides and it's

90% of suicide attempts by firearm or lethal. it's a highly lethal means of suicide. and connecticut, for example, has estimated that they are law has reduced one in ten suicide deaths as a result of being in place in indiana, over ten, years they've reduced suicide deaths by seven and a half percent because of their extreme risk protection order law. >> is there data on who has asked for those red flags? is it a family member going in saying hey, we are concerned about this person? it could be suicidal? >> it could do damage to himself or herself and in addition to an other people? >> you know, law enforcement has traditionally been the main entity that has requested those. and some of these laws are relatively new in the last five years. there's not a lot of comprehensive data out there on

who is making those requests. we know that some of the recent laws passed to allow for a wider spectrum of individuals. family members are a really important part of an individual's life and can identify those, but we know not everyone is close to their family or in daily contact with their family. so making sure we have a variety of options for petitioning the court is important. >> hannah, she is the chief advocacy officer for the national reliance on mental illness or naomi, you can call us on 20274 8001. that's the republican, light to wait to -- four as the democrats line. and for all others, independents and all others, it's 2027800. two after the covenant school shooting in nashville, following some of the political uproar at the state house, the governor in tennessee signed an

executive order on background checks. he's calling for red flag law. calling the legislature in to pass a red flag law. do you have any idea which direction the tennessee legislature may go on this? >> having the governor speak out in support of this -- the relevance of the bipartisan communities act that passed last year in congress that really encourage states to pass these laws. so this can be bipartisan in nature. and i hope that tennessee takes that to heart and looks at this. in any other, state exploring one of these laws really needs to make sure that it's based on evaluating realtime behaviors and not a diagnosis of a mental health condition. people with mental illness are much more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators of violence. a person with mental illness is

23 times more likely than there appears to be a victim of violence. we need to make sure that these laws are based on actual realtime behaviors that a person might be exhibiting. and looks at real predictors of violence. >> what can we do in the absence of gun stores, individuals, what can we do in the absence of a red flag law and the absence of having a diagnosis of somebody with a mental issue. when someone purchases a firearm that should not be purchasing a firearm, could do harm to themselves, their family member or friends. should they know that this person has firearms and is potentially at risk to the community? >> you, know another opportunity is that it's done purchase reading periods where it reduces the imminent harm that can be done by firearms or suicides. some states are exploring not

and allowing intervals to opt into that and make sure that they are not able to purchase a firearm if they are going to be suicidal or have suicidal ideation. those are some other things that we can implement. you, know the concern that we always have is the focus is on mental illness. the united states is not the only country that has mental illness. it's common around the world and you are the only country that has this public health crisis when it comes to gun violence. only about 4% of violent acts are attributed to mental illness. so we need to look at the larger picture of how we are limiting the use of firearms to cause this harm both to individuals and self inflicted, harm as well as large mass acts of violent. >> we have calls waiting for, you let's go to christine who is in moon sake. rhode island. first up, go ahead, christine. >> yes, good morning. great topic. thank you for your service.

i'm just calling because people with mental illness need more services. the families need a whole lot of support. when they started letting people out of the institutions, those people were put into group homes which, we had a lot of behaviors but never anybody buying guns. now the people who have to live with family members. if the police are called the police, if they has not inform the procedure of where to bring the people for the services, services or herbal. our young, we've had mental illness go way back where they had no -- people with learning disabilities and up in jail, they end up getting involved in drugs. and a lot of the mental illness is caused just by society and it can be triggered at anytime.

i have a nephew that has schizophrenia and it's just horrible on the family. not horrible, we love him, but he disappears and he is in places where he could be harmed. and it's a dangerous situation for everyone around. but as far as the gun laws, that needs to be taken care of. how long is it gonna take to take care of the mental health? we have young teenagers losing their minds because of the way the adults are behaving. >> christine? anna? >> christine, thank you for calling. and i hope you're not feels doing well. right, now i know that there can be times when it so difficult on the family. 160 million americans live in a mental health provider area.

it's easier to purchase firearms and get mental health care in this country so we have a huge challenge and making sure the individuals are getting the services they need. you mentioned police responding to a person in crisis. there has been a lot of work, hopefully folks who are watching are aware of 9-8-8, the resource that came out last year available nation wide that people can call mental health substance use or crisis -- to get crisis services and de-escalation support. there's an effort behind that to make sure that we are providing mental health response when people are in crisis and not relying on law enforcement. there's a lot of issues there and absolutely agree that we need to do more for people with mental health conditions and we are in a crisis right now as it relates to that in this country. >> let's go to lucy, florida, anthony? >> anthony in florida, you are on the air. >> hello, good morning, good morning.

the, my, friend how are you? >> good, thank. you thank you, good morning, miss hannah. i'm a retired federal police officer that has been involved in active shooter situations. i have to say, it's more than just what we call a mental health -- these shooters are ingrained in hate and anger. and they respond off their hate and anger, just like the situation in tennessee. a workplace violence situation. it's the same thing when i went to a gentleman with a contractor. his contract was about to be up, he came in and shot the people he worked with and then he went from there, shooting all the other folks. he killed like 11 folks before we ended his reign.

my concern is that it's more than just mental illness, there's a disconnect for these individuals not to understand logic and law and have integrity and their behavior and learn how to deal with their anger. and i think anger management, along with dealing with mental disconnection would be very important. and we need to ban these assault weapons. my last point, and i appreciate you giving me time, the congressman and the senators who support these gun rights, they don't let them bring them to the building, and the building right behind, you to the white house. they let them walk around assault weapons around other people. they keep them out of their. buildings and there is a reason. because you can't control these folks of these weapons because once you start with the assault weapons -- the military weapons. it does great damage. thank you for --

i love your glasses game, man. you always wear some good specks. >> i appreciate you, anthony. your thoughts,? anna >> anthony, first, thank you for your service. and i can't imagine the trauma that you and your fellow officers have gone through. i think it's a big part of this conversation. the mass trauma that is caused by these acts of violence. you are absolutely. write research has shown that predictors of violence are past violent acts, sexual or physical abuse, misuse of drugs or alcohol, past misdemeanors for violent acts. there are real risk factors that we can look at and predictors, and it's usually a multiple factors that contribute to an individual displaying violence. and focusing on one thing does not solve the, problem certainly not one thing that is not a strong predictor of violence like mental illness.

>> it's the use or misuse of social media predictor of violence? >> we don't know enough. for over 20 years there was a ban or, it-limited federal dollars being used for gun violence research. we don't know the impact of social media. we don't know what that is doing. certainly we know that it's having an impact on youth mental health. we have a youth mental health crisis in this country. but we don't know what else it's doing. there is a lot to unpack there. and there's a lot to dig into. we need to know more. >> you mentioned a ban on research, now, is the cdc allowed to do the violence research? yes, it's called the dickie amendment is lifted by congress in 2019. yes, now we are starting to get a little bit more funding into the cdc for gun violent research which is absolutely critical to better understanding how we study these acts of gun violence. next is tom, woodbridge,

virginia, welcome. >> thank you guys. please give me enough time to get through this. this is -- i'm a recognized leader in virginia with regard to the second amendment. an opposition to the red flag, laws in addition to, that i'm a recognized counterterrorism expert. and i spent the last five or six years that-ing the mental health crisis in the united states because of the misconception that guns have something to do with mental health. she just hit on it, but it's usually lost on everyone. we virtually every single case of gun violence in the united states that is not in the 17 inner cities in the united states that have massive gun violence due to the drug war and fatherless-ness and hopelessness, the majority, virtually every single one of the mass shooter instances, the

individuals involved were known to be suffering from massive anxiety, massive depression, suicide like ideation. and sued side like ideation -- 4% of cases, ten become homicidal ideation, which they either killer families or they kill coworkers, or they kill filibustered, and who they target as to take out their pain. which is internal. on the world to try to in the sense elevate themselves from their place of misery in the world. and that is the real crux of almost all these mass shooter problems, we know, in almost every single one of these cases that these people are potentially violent and with the problem is with red flag laws, as it's usually weaponized by the left is that

it's not really about people who are potentially violent. it's about people who have guns. and anyone who has a gun is essentially we -- to a great many number of people, they see people who have guns as being a threat just because they own guns. and 99.9% of all firearms in the hands of american citizens today basically killed no one. it's really small percentage of firearms that are used in these mass shooters that are in the hands of firearm owners. however they get 1000% of the media. and it's incredibly incredibly tragic when these events happen but unfortunately, in a free society, unless you're willing to impose totalitarian law and change the entire makeup of the united states, this is never gonna go away. and even if you did do that, it

would be impossible to eliminate it. -- >> okay, you've got your point. through let's hear from our guest on. that thank. you >> okay, so this is not about taking guns away. the red flag law is extremely stream protection orders. they allow an individual to. process they have a chance to present their evidence and speak to the court. and you know, i think that's an important part of this. this is not unilaterally taking away anyone's firearm. and i do disagree with the collar about the fact that mental illness is a part of all of this. again, the mental illness is only a trivial factor. 4% of acts of violence. that's not even gonna, violence that's violence overall. so it's a very small percentage when you look at the number of people with mental health conditions as part of the overall population. when -- >> do you agree with his analysis of mass shooters and

with the elements -- the anxiety and depression and suicidal ideation? do you think that's a common thread with mass shooters in this country? >> i don't think we have evidence to show that that is a common thread. nor that that is a contributing factor, but it -- you know, also, gun violence is incredibly pervasive. and common sense illusions that limit that, kaiser family foundation just came out with a poll where we won in five americans said that they have had a firearm pulled on a. and they've been not situation. and you know, it's incredible to see the impact of firearm usage in this country. and you know, comments and solutions can go a long way to mitigate that impact. but focusing on factors that aren't the contributing factor

is not going to solve the problem. >> the associated press had an article about the issues that they found with red flag laws. their headline, was red flag laws get little, use as shootings and gun deaths soar. in that piece, they said that they found 19 states in theistrict of columbia are used to remove firearms from people, 15,049 times since 2020. feerhan ten per 100,000 adult residents. experts, they, right called that woefully low and not nearly enough to make it dent in gun violence considering the many firearms in circulation. countless potential warning signs, on enforcement officers encounter from gun owners every day. >> one of the missed opportunities is when we have these laws on the books. it's educating law enforcement, the public, mental health professionals. that they exist. and how to utilize them. and that is an important part of this. and you know, recent activities by congress and the administration around these

laws to focus on better educating the public in key stakeholders about the existence of this week court orders and how to obtain them. and i think that is absolutely critical and making sure that they get utilized more and that we are helping people and saving people. >> all, right next up is bill intel hasse, florida. democrats line. >> hello? >> phil, you're on the air. >> oh, thank, you i've been washing since 1987. first time caller. >> great. >> this is -- >> yeah, thank you. this is a very important issue. i'm actually looking at an article written by mark berman, washington post, july of last year. and he quoted governor abbott, who said that anybody who should somebody else has a mental health challenge. period. and your guest just pretty much said but i wanted to say. the mental health, for the most part, it's not particularly violent. violence attributed to the

mentally ill with, you guessed indicated, only comes to like 4% of violence. and i think with gun violence towards strangers it's only 1%. so while the push for mental health treatment, i'm all for it. i'm just not sure how much that's gonna impact gun violence towards others. now i think it could be very helpful with those with to decide ideation, but i think it's really sad to hear that politicians and the nra promote this myth that we gun violence by others is caused by mental illness i don't. think that's the issue. the issue for me is that, you know when you fill a country with weapons like we, have there's 400 million weapons now in the united states. that there is going to be this interaction between human emotions and behavior, very strong emotions, anger, hate, jealousy, rage. and if you happen to be carrying a gun at the time, and near expressing the strong

emotions, some people may use that -- some people with limited impulse control. i don't know how we get around that one. that's gonna be really difficult. those are my major, points i really appreciated. >> thanks, phil. >> bill, thank you for those comments. and absolutely agree with you that until illness is not the factor here. and yes, that is so much of the conversation. not only reinforces the stigma around mental health, conditions which keep people from getting the help they need. it can be true that we have a gun violence crisis in this country and a mental health crisis in this country, but they're not necessarily the same thing or related to each other. , so yes we need to invest in mental health care, and our mental health system. but that is not going to solve our gun violence crisis. >> on to pines, florida, this is nelson on the independent line. >> good, morning i want to say that i'm 73 years old.

i'm a calm path wounded vietnam that and i may be -- i'm a retired firefighter and paramedic. i have to say, i've dealt with extreme violence in my lifetime. and i know what guns do. i believe that the problem that we are experiencing in the united states it's a result of a psychological cultural change that has taken place in my lifetime. , when i was -- the big problem was, and my, kid we had a fistfight after school with school bully. today, kids have to worry about going to school and getting shot. and i believe that all of this has to do with this cultural change that seems to disregard human life. we see it in the political left, with the antiabortion, and we see it on the political right with the issue of guns.

any kind of -- and i agree with you that mental health problem is not the issue. i believe that the cultural -- change >> nelson, you're breaking up a little, bit sorry about. that we've got most of your call. any thoughts? >> nelson, thank you for your service and for sharing your thoughts. you, know you mentioned children and suicide is the second leading cause of death for children, ages ten into young adulthood. and firearms are the most common cause of death for our kids. and you know, thinking about kids going to school and worrying about what might happen there. but, also the availability of firearms for any child that is feeling bullied or has other events in their life that are contributing to suicidal ideation. it is a real concern, and we are losing far too many

children as a result of this. and you, know, certainly, we've seen the change and in my childhood to now as well. and we really need to solve. those are kids deserve better, they deserve to feel safe at school. they deserve to feel supported, and we shouldn't be giving them the tools to cause harm to themselves or. others >> suicide is risen to record highs, the front page, story the washington, times the national suicide rate rebounds close to a 20-year. high it jumped in 2021 after declining the previous two years, as the final count fell just shy of a two decade high, according to government, figures for the centers of disease control and prevention. now you mentioned, earlier, that 9-8-8. program tell us a bit more about that and its efforts and suicide prevention. >> the 988 suicide and crisis lifeline, available to everyone by calling, texting, 988 or chatting online at 988 lifeline

dot org. you, know millions of people have already called since it became available last ally. and the goal there is to help people in crisis. mental health, substance use, suicidal crisis, to connect to a trained crisis counselor. that's who's answering the phone. it reduces the need for an in-person response. it connects people to additional care and services. and again, this is all focused on making sure that we are giving a person in a mental health crisis and mental health. response >> i think you pointed out earlier in our conversation, suicide is the number one gun death. correct? suicide? that's the number one gun death? >> more than half of all firearm deaths are suicide and more than half of suicides are conducted by using firearms. >> on to erik who is in pittsfield, massachusetts. >> go ahead. >> hey, how are you guys? i love the show. first time we color. and, i think for coming on.

you know, i'm a conservative, and i'm a gun owner. the crazy thing is, oh my, buddies my friends, we shoot together, we all wish there was stronger laws. and i feel like the media posts out, and the potent didn't act like it's a 50/50 issue when, if i had to wait a month for, again i will wait a month. i'm a law-abiding citizen. these politicians are also corrupt. i mean, it's just crazy. i've got my veteran friends, is wearing assured says capitalism runs on blood now. and it's just -- you know, i feel like we all want the same thing. we want stricter laws. why won't politicians able to? us if there is metal mental health issue, why isn't the medicare for all? and i'm conservative lifelong. >> is it possible for there to be federal red flag laws? >> well, i mean,, politically i

think that will be difficult. also, i think a lot of this is understate jurisdiction. so that what the federal government has done is provided more funding to the department of justice to incentifies dates to pass these laws. department of justice, after an executive order from president biden also put out model extreme protect order legislation in 2021. so now that's out, there and it's no incentivizing states through grant programs to implement those, i think that's the best option that we have right now. but we're also not exploring safe storage laws in terms of storing firearms safely, only 13 states have, those on the books and as well as these waiting periods as mentioned. certainly, somebody is at imminent risk they can get past the period of imminent risk. >> we will go to bryant in maryland. democrats line. >> good morning, i am no expert

on guns, i don't know many guns, i'm no expert on mental health, but i think it's a little exhausting hearing some folks who say that there's nothing that we can do to -- that we should accept this in our society and gentleman called previously, and he explained that only a certain percentage of gun owners commit these crimes, and punishing gun owners, you know, i'm open to solutions, i don't think we need to take guns away but you have to flip the analogy also. if there's any of number of folks that are dealing with mental health issues in our society, some folks deal with them over long periods of, time other people have episodes and lapses. they're not all going out and committing mass murder. so i think it's unacceptable for us to continue to just say, well this is something within our society that we have to live, with and to sacrifice it we have to -- we have to sacrifice it in

order to be american. thank. you >> read, well said. stigmatizing any group of individuals on any factor is not going to solve our problems. we know that these are much more complex challenges that our nation faces. and if we implemented solutions that are based on evidence of what causes these acts of violence, then i think we can get to a better place. but a lot of times the solutions that are put forward are not solutions at, all they are based on reinforcing these stigmas and not really addressing what we know is going to help the problem. and solve the situation. >> next up is joel in eagle, idaho. >> hi bill. >> hey there. >> a couple of things, first problem is the american psychiatric association comes out every year with standards for mental illness. and there is very little

agreement on what mental illness is. that's point number one. point number, to serotonin re-up take inhibitors are a major treatment in depression. and these had some very very long term ill effects on the human brain. so that needs to be addressed. the other thing is that you talk about mental illness, it's somebody with dementia, are they mentally ill? is it somebody with depression? are they mentally ill? what about pm s? you could make an argument that there are some wild attributes that they have with that conditions. it's tough to define mental illness other than the obvious schizophrenic or her health cases like that. the other thing is that you can think the eight you for some of those situations years ago,

they opened up all the mental hospitals and the supreme court decided that the living conditions were not up to par, and lastly, i'm not sure that i want a federal judge or any type of judge making a decision on second amendment rights. i'm a gun owner, 78 year old vietnam vet. and i don't want a liberal judge deciding that for me. but i would like to hear your address on ssris. >> okay joe, we appreciate your call. >> you know, jewel mentioned that we've moved away from institutionalization, which is actually good. think the problem in our country is that we have not increased the availability of community mental health resources. so putting people in an institution was a very ineffective and inhumane way to treat anyone with a mental

illness. until health's health and there are effective ways to treat, that and yet we don't invest in those effective ways, so community mental health services have been underfunded for decades. i would also note that there is the dsm-5, which has diagnostics for a wide range of mental health conditions. we do know what mental illnesses are and what are some of the symptoms and factors of those mental health conditions. so there is quite a bit that we know about that. >> he also touched on what i think a caller before was alluding to, said something along the lines of, the moment of some of these shootings is not a mental health issue, not a mental illness issue but strong emotions come into play. anger, revenge, vengeance, jealousy. and that can cause the use of the firearm. that doesn't necessarily indicate a mental illness on the part of the person in the

firearm. >> those are mental health conditions, they're a lot of angry people in this country and that is often what comes into play. it's the trigger for these acts of violence. but people often conflate that with having a mental illness. and you know, having psychiatric disorder does not mean that you are going to engage in that violence. the anger certainly is a huge factor. >> on to atlanta, and bob is up next on the republican line. >> yes, so my regards to miss nguyen's laskay, but it appears to me that she doesn't know what she's talking about. i used to work in a big psychiatric hospital, all of which got closed here in georgia. especially right around the 80s. by a bunch of do gutters like her that think that you can just tell somebody and it will get handled. there are times when you're de-compensated. when you're actually crazy you need institutionalization that is quarter quote, need a good

psychiatric hospital to stabilize. you i can tell but i just looking heard her she's never been in one or anywhere else. >> okay, bob. we had to respond to that? hannah? >> no one would, debate just like any health condition, that some people need impatient care. that was not what i was saying. however, that is not how most people with mental health conditions need to receive services. >> on to joan in rochester, minnesota. joan is on the democrats. line go ahead. >> my main thing is i think, dwight, eisenhower said the best thing in the world, beware of the military industrial complex. i think the industrial complex has overrode a country with guns. and we keep blaming it on the people and their problems, and all this other stuff, when all that we have to do is take that military firearm out of the hands of the people in this

country. let them have their hunting guns, or their range shooters and all the good things, you know the things that are treasure to them. and get the ar whatever, 15th, out of the hands of everybody because we have the industrial military complex. it's way too strong. and the people need to speak up, and their voices need to be heard instead of being squashed. thank you. >> thank, you hannah, you may have mentioned this bff survey. this is one caught our eye. this one says that more than half of u.s. adults have experienced gun related incident. including one in five have been personally threatened with a gun or have had a family member who has been killed by a gun. 31% of those surveys have been threatened by a gun. is there any research into the mental health effect of the continuing news about mass shootings? the presence, the daily presence of shootings and violent crime certainly in our

cities? >> not enough, for sure, there's not enough research to know the impact, but we do see a significant increase in mass trauma, particularly those most directly impacted. but you look at the impact on, parents on kids across the country, going through shooter drills in their schools. there is a component of that that certainly impacts individuals and kids and particular that are growing up with this as normal. you, know there is a huge concern about what being part of a -- having a gun pulled on, you what that does to you, and the ptsd that might result. that can certainly cause ptsd for some individuals. certainly not everyone, but you look at how we provide better mental health services to individuals that need it as a result of our gun violence, and gun epidemic is critical here. >> what is the role in the case of the mass shooting when we

trauma counselors will go in and talk to people? what is their role? >> the role is to process what people are feeling. to validate that, it's important that we do it not only for the individuals that were part of -- but also police, officers what they witness and the wakes of these events is absolutely devastating. we also see high rates of suicide among law enforcement. so these trauma counselors can really help process that, and help individuals understand what their triggers may be. what they're feeling and what they're feeling is valid, which is also important. >> on to portsmouth, virginia. dr., butler is it? go ahead. >> yes, >> you are on the air. >> yes, i trained as a psychiatrist. i found i did not have that personal patients too through it so i switched to surgery. however, i would like to ask,

what do other countries do two with respect to this issue? and what laws, if any, do they pass that we might consider? that would bear on this question, in particular is this a national problem of employment or opportunity for hope and being able to earn a living? or is it something more subtle. i asked that because i don't know the answer. and i'm fascinated by your program. >> thanks for that. hannah? >> i can't say but i'm an expert in international policies and what other countries do, what i do know is that the availability of firearms is much more limited in other developed countries. certainly, one other countries have had horrific acts of mass

gun violence, australia being one example, they have taken significant measures that have vastly reduced subsequent acts of gun violence. so i can't speak to all of the policies that are in, place but i know the availability and the lack of restrictions on firearms usage and the types of firearms certainly contributes to that in this country. >> here is richard in gillette, wyoming, go ahead. >> yeah, you know, the other color mentioned the military industrial complex and eisenhower, speech i read that originally was the military industrial congressional with. but it did advisers suggested he took congressional out. but my question on red flag laws, what i heard about them is that they lack due process. i was wondering if that lady could speak to that. >> yeah, that is a common

misconception about streamers protection quarters, or red flag laws. while a judge can issue a temporary order that lasts for a couple of weeks, that has to be followed up by more extensive hearing where the individual does have due process. can speak for themselves. present evidence, the petitioner also has to testify. so the process is absolutely a part of this. and something we strongly support that we don't want anyone to have their rights unfairly restricted and that is an important component of these, laws that an individual has their say and is able to represent themselves in a court of law. >> our guest is the chief advocacy officer of the national reliance on mental illness, hannah will, housekeeping so much for being on the washington journal this morning. >> thank you so much for having me. >> we'll get to all of your thoughts in a, minute let's start with the speaker yesterday, after his