with his book about 1966 and the black power movement. joining us now is washington post white house bureau chief and co-author of this book. his name is george floyd, one man's life and the struggle for racial justice. what was the angle you were taking in writing this book? >> we wanted to tell george floyd's story. not the story of his death what the story of how he lived in america. you could tell readers a little bit about the country in which he lived and the struggles he had as he came of age in america. an america that has moved beyond the days of jim crow and colored water fountains and blatant

racism but still suffers from inequality, discrimination, systemic racism that often happens behind the scenes, often happens behind closed doors and underneath the surface and wanted to showcase how that operated in george floyd's life. everyone saw how he died, under the knee of a police officer that happened to be white. there are many ways that racism takes place that is not quite as visceral, not quite as emotional, not quite as evident as someone dying under the knee of a police officer and we wanted to showcase how that happens in our school systems, prison systems, housing systems and show the george floyd was a human being. he had his ups and downs and highs and lows but he was a human being before he became this icon of social justice. we wanted to honor his human

story and allow people to see him for who he was, not just on his worst moments but throughout the course of his life. that is what we wanted to show. >> that was in may of 2020. three years ago. what were some of his ups and downs in life? >> he was born poor. from the beginning, he was born into deep poverty. not because of his family not working hard but because of where his family was. north carolina, in the deep south, hard work was not always rewarded with wealth for people who look like george floyd. they had their wealth stripped away through fraud, racial terror in the late 1800s and early 1900s. he had dreams and visions. we talk to his second grade teacher who told us about how he

wanted to be a supreme court justice. she actually kept one of his assignments 40 years later and saw he had been able to write, read and do everything on grade level. he had hopes and dreams and had the opportunities to chase the american dream. . he was a tall, big person was able to excel on the sports field and went to the state championship with his high school football team and saw a pathway to get into college through sports. he got a scholarship. he had what seemed like a pathway to stability despite the deep poverty. he was born into. we see over the course of the book that despite the opportunities, despite persistence to overcome obstacles, those obstacles eventually catch up to him in terms of poverty, substandard schooling, a policing system that was unfair in many cases

and targeted communities like the one he grew up in. later in life, we see him confront a series of lows, being arrested for petty drug crimes and spending time in jail, experiencing poverty as a result of his criminal record. he could never get a job in part because he was not able to qualify for the professional licenses you would need to get a job because of his criminal record. we see the lows, which included substance abuse, make his life very difficult. one reason he was in minneapolis was he had left his hometown of houston to move to minneapolis to get into a rehab program. despite his willingness to uproot his life, try for a better shot at life, changes pathway, we saw a police officer snuff that life out before he had the opportunity to remake

his life. >> we will take calls during the segment, as well. we want to get the numbers up on the screen. if you want to send a text message to our guest, you can send it to this number (202) 748-8903. please include your first name and your city. at what point did you and your co-author decide to take the approach you did and was it one of those casual conversations? >> this book grew out of a series that rented the washington post. it was myself, robert and several other reporters who each

took on a different part of george floyd's american experience. there was a reporter who wrote about his experience with the housing system. the criminal justice system. i wrote about his family history. robert wrote about his experience in the american health care system. we have a lot of different pieces of the puzzle. understanding his experience, how we came of age, long before he met derek chauvin. we got an understanding of how his life was like. that series ran to great acclaim of the washington post. robert and i got together and decided we would tell a deeper story. we would turn the series into a full-length book which we were able to start from the beginning, even before george floyd came on the scene. tell the story of his ancestors and their american experience and how we came into the world. how he experienced america, in a much different way than most

people experience this country. we decided to take on the project and not only write about his life but what his death meant for america. the movements marked by his death. every day people taking to the streets, some people who had never protested before. some people decided this was too much and they went to change the country they lived in. part of the book was about george floyd and part was about the experience of america dealing with his death and the aftermath of his death, the conviction of the officers who murdered him and how the country responded to his death. we wanted to be able to tell that story. we knew we were living through an important part of american history. we wanted to record the history and write the second draft of history that is more thorough and more nuanced and get some of the details we were not able to get in the moment in the immediate aftermath after he was killed. we thought it was compelling

because of how major the moment was in our history, to be able to tell the history of the person whose death sparked the moment and tell the story of the country who grappled with his death and all of the issues that were brought to the surface by his murder. we thought it was important to be able to tell that story in the best and most thorough way possible. >> what percentage of your time did you spend in north carolina, houston, minneapolis? >> i spent most of my time in houston. i moved to houston to do the research for this book and immerse myself in the community where george floyd grew up. to spent time in the housing projects where he grew up. meet with the people who knew him when he grew up. to walk on the fields where he chased athletic stardom. to go to some of the courtrooms were he was sentenced to time in prison. spent time with friends and family members who had him over

for dinner and remembered who he was, this tall and gregarious guy who was big and never quite felt comfortable in his body because people saw him and were intimidated by him but he saw himself as gentle and loving to the world. i spent most of my time in houston. i spent some time in minneapolis, as well. my co-author spent a lot of time in minneapolis, covering the trial. he spent time with george floyd's family. he traveled to other parts of the country, as well, where george floyd had family. it was important to immerse ourselves in the communities where george floyd lived and communities impacted by his death so we could get a feel for what it was like to be him and for people who were coming to know him through his death and being animated by the death and dealing with the issues that the country decided to deal with as a result of the fact that he

died in such a heinous way in front of the eyeballs of millions of people. >> let's take some calls. let's begin with don calling in from new orleans. you are on book tv. >> i apologize, we are going to put you on hold. the producer is going to talk to you and tell you how this operates so we can get you on the air. did you approach derek chauvin for an interview? >> we did. >> we try to get in touch with him. by the time we were writing this book, he had already been convicted and he was in jail. we reached out to him through the appropriate channels and he decided he did not want to stick with us. >> did he consider it? >> i am sure he did but he turned down his chance to tell

his side of the story. we did hear from him in court and from his lawyer. we have some of his side of the story. we have some of his side of the story through interviews he did through the legal process. there is an entire chapter about derek chauvin and his american experience that we got him talking to people who knew him, worked alongside him and were arrested by him. george floyd was not the person -- not the first person he arrested with the technique of the knee on the neck. we talk to other people who were brutalized by derek chauvin. we were able to understand a little bit about how he approached the job of policing and how he came to the corner on may 25, 2020, and how history changed by the fact he was responding to the call and

responded the way he did. >> what was one question you would've asked derek chauvin? >> i would have wanted to know what he thought of when he first saw george floyd -- there were multiple opportunities he had to de-escalate. there were multiple opportunities he had to remove his knee from george floyd's neck. what understanding what he thought when he first saw george floyd and what triggered him to become some aggressive in his arrest of george floyd that even after george floyd stop moving that he continue to keep his knee on his neck. i think there is something we could find out by understanding what he saw. maybe he did not see george floyd's humanity in the way that all the people who saw him die saw. that is something i would want to know. i think that would get to the heart of why he responded the way he did. >> new brunswick, new jersey.

you are on book tv. we are listening. >> hi. thank you so much for the two of you writing this book and that you focused on his life. i have a quick question. since this is a broader issue, i had no idea all of these things occurred in his life that were extremely positive. do you ever think about the possibility of a play about his life? i think there is a movie. i am about 20 minutes from manhattan so i am thinking play or theater. i would love to see a play with all of the things that you talked about, what he did and accomplished. because it is a broader issue of racism, injustice and being underserved, i think that would be awesome. have you thought about the possibility of a movie or play? >> thank you so much for the

question and for the suggestion. we are journalists what we are open to any form of art that allows a story to be told in a powerful way. the world of theatric arts, the world of dramatizing stories will allow people to connect with the story. i hope that in some moment, when the time is right, that this story is able to be dramatized. we tried to write it in a way that is engaging and translate to the dramatic world. we wanted it to be engaging to readers. if you have the opportunity to pick up the book, it reads like a real-life story, a movie because we wrote it in that way. there is a lot of dialogue. we heard from a lot of people. we did more than 400 interviews for this book. it allowed us to bring some of the scenes to life. there is a lot of power. for people who might not ever

pick up a book, being able to dramatize his story and have people connect with george floyd this way. it all started with a video. a dramatic moment that was caught on camera on a video. i think people were able to connect with this not just because of the written word but the video of george floyd's death. there is something that can be done to showcase the drama of his life, the hopes and dreams and aspirations he had, not just the negative video that was his death but the dramatic way he lived life, the powerful way he lived life. i think there is something to be said about focusing on the fact it started with a video that was heinous and brutal but there are ways to dramatize the ways and parts of his life that were more hopeful and positive. this is a very sensitive topic and we want to be deliberative

and diligent about thinking about how it might be translated for the big screen or smallscreen. it is something we are not rushing into. it is something we are thinking about. if we do decide to move forward, we went to be a positive approach and something that will be sensitive. we want whatever is done to be true to the story. we want whatever could be done to be true to george floyd's own personal story and the story of the country he grew up in. >> the name of the book is "his name is george floyd." if you live -- send a text message (202) 748-8903.

first name and city in the text message if you would. this text message from illinois. do you know, or was there speculation that mr. derek chauvin knew of or knew who george floyd was? >> that is something we researched and spoke to his many people as we could to run that down. what we learned was, it did not necessarily matter whether or not show -- derek chauvin knew him. our understanding was they worked in some of the same places but there was no sense of a strong personal relationship but derek chauvin was known as an aggressive police officer. no matter who he encountered, he likely would have used the same technique. he used the knee-to-the-neck

technique so many times. when he would be asked about the level of force, he would say the person was bigger. george floyd was a bigger person. it is not surprising after learning about derek chauvin's history in policing that he decided to use this technique. it did not have to be out of a personal grudge he had with george floyd. it was just how he behaved. it was the kind of officer he was. we did not find any evidence that he was doing it out of personal spite. even though the two men moonlighted at the same nightclub and work security at the same nightclubs, there was no sense they had a personal grudge or personal relationship of any kind. derek chauvin was the kind of police officer who could do this

kind of action whether or not he knew someone. >> vicki, carolina, good afternoon. >> both the caller before hand and he just answered my question. did the police officer know george floyd at a nightclub that they worked at? >> you are right, he just answered that call so we will move on and talk to dan in new jersey. dan, you are on book tv. >> i was really shocked because if you remember, the officer had his knee on mr. floyd's back. for you to breathe, the ribs are rotating on the spine. it is a tremendous effort with the weight of a man on your back

to expand your ribs. the other knee -- that would suppress the drive to breathing. mr. floyd was doped up on drugs that would affect his respiratory drive. all in all, i think this was a case of poor police training and a medical condition the combined a number of factors that were most unfortunate. by putting this officer in jail, we are disregarding the fact we are not training as to the real medical issues that involve drug addiction and holding down people when they are being arrested. mr. floyd was a very big man. >> i think we got the point. >> thank you so much for your comment. these things were litigated as

part of the trial. there were many medical experts who testified to what exactly happened. how the pressure was applied to george floyd's neck and how that stopped him from breathing. although george floyd did have opioids in his system, those did not contribute to his inability to breathe, according to the medical experts who testified. these issues have been litigated, the jury heard these issues and they rendered a verdict of guilty for derek chauvin. that is how the american system of justice works. we respect those verdicts. mr. chauvin has had the opportunity to go through appeal and question whether or not it was a just verdict. i think the fact that it was a unanimous guilty was the result of a jury that heard all of the

medical evidence and about how exactly the process went down. this was a case that had a lot of evidence. there were dozens of camera angles and information about how george floyd spent his final moments. we were able to use those medical experts to showcase exactly what happened to george floyd, exactly what happened to his organs, exactly how he lost his life. there is a lot of speculation about what might have killed him , the medical evidence is pretty clear about how he died and the fact that derek chauvin's knee on his neck was a major contributing factor to his death. >> did you talk to members of the jury? >> we did not do that as part of this story. we talk to the legal team that prosecuted derek chauvin. in part because the verdict was unanimous and it was so clear,

we found a lot more value in speaking to the prosecutors and the people who testified getting into the jury and on earth their anonymity, we spot they spoke -- we thought they spoke in a clear voice with a unanimous verdict of guilty. we thought that being able to retell the story of the trial, it was much more valuable for us to speak to the prosecutors who put together the case, who dealt with the evidence and presented a case to the jury along with the witnesses who testified and spoke to the jury through their testimony and got some reaction from the jury through some of the eyes of those on the witness stand. we got a sense of what played well with the jury and what did not play well with the jury. >> a few minutes left with our guest.

california. good afternoon. >> hi. i just want to know why everything has to be turned into a race matter. ever since this whole chauvin thing, our country has been so divided. half of america sees a very sad situation where he died. i do not think he was intending for him to die, do not think he was people. there was a crowd around, he was pushing on his back and he died. there is so much tension. you do not know if black people are looking at white people and thinking they are special or white people are thinking black people hate them, it has been so divided. what can we do to stop making everything racist and start getting along? >> that is a good question. one of the things he wanted to do in the book was allow people to understand one another

better. a lot of people never met anyone like george floyd in their mouth. many people -- george floyd in their life. some people would say that is someone who is not up to any good based on how he is dressed. we wanted people to read this book and get to know someone -- someone who is in their family. someone who is talkative and gregarious and interesting, complicated and nuanced. we are in a very divided time. the fact that george floyd died brought out a number of issues that the country has faced for much of its history. the country has had a complex racial history and we have to deal with that. we cannot sweep it under the rug. there has been a history of racial injustice in america and we are trying to get to a better place. in order to get there, we have to confirm our history. the fact that george floyd was killed because people to

confront parts of our history maybe they were not familiar with, maybe they were not willing to confront in the past. sometimes it does force us to get through a period of divisiveness and confront some of the ugly parts of our country's history when we see someone die on camera the way george floyd did. the goal of our book is to help us understand each other better. help us understand what needs to happen to bring more equality into our system. it is easy for us to it is users say -- it is easy to say lets everyone get along, but as long as someone like george floyd races so many trials in his life because of the color of his skin, that makes it harder to say let's all get along and forget about race for the time being. so our book hopes to improve some of these inequalities so

that some time in the future we are not talking about race so much because we don't have as much racial inequality in our system. we have to confront the issues, and deal with the issues in order to get to a place where in the future we are not having to focus as much on inequality as we do now. as long as we have inequality in our system, it's going to be something that causes inequalities -- that causes divisiveness in our system, so we need to do what we can to address those inequalities and bring our country to a more united place. >> white house bureau chief for "the washington post your cup -- "the washington post." your co-author works with you. >> he just left "the post,"

sadly for us. just in the last month or so, he joined the new yorker. he is still in washington. still will be writing about the key issues of our time, so i'm looking forward to following his career as a fan and co-author. he is a great writer and was a great person to work on this book with. >> alvin is in denver. please go ahead. >> i purchased your book. i'm reading it now. i appreciate the perspective going back generations in george floyd's family, establishing at one time his relatives owned more land in the particular county in north carolina. i really appreciate that. i paid a lot of attention to the trial. i watched a lot of it, and you

kind of touched on this a little, but i worked in the criminal system. i have my own ideas about this. why do you think children -- why do you think chauvin wanted to incapacitate george floyd, and that's why he kept his knee on his neck? there's a police department -- >> hi, alvin, we are going to have to leave it there. we are running out of time. short answer to an important question. >> very complex question, very nuanced. during the trial, we learned that derek chauvin was not trained to use force in that way. even his police chief told the jury that is not the way to use force. no matter his intent, that was not the way you use force, even according to his own police chief, which we rarely see at trials. it is important to remember that

the chief of police said that is not the way to use force. >> the book, "his name is george floyd: one man's life and the struggle for racial>> ok, ready? >> ok, welcome, everyone. it is so referentially quiet in here. maybe that speaks to the topic? welcome to civil rights, the black power movement, and where we are today. yet another panel on civil rights, the black power movement, and where we are today. i'm a journalist and writer in los angeles. i'm joined by three wonderful authors and historians and