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>> comcast supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. hou>> we are back and join this morning by now standing, a white house columnist for the hilt newspaper, years here this morning to talk about how a controversial issue, are playing out in state legislatures. now, good morning. >> good to see you. >> so, you recently wrote a column in the hill newspaper talking about how the culture wars in the united states are playing out at the state level. tell us a little bit about why we are seeing this? >> i think it depends on the specific issue. so, obviously, abortion has been a culture or forever. clearly, a thing moved to the states by the supreme court decision, about 11 months ago, striking down roe v. wade. then you have other additional issues, like the so-called crt

allows, whichever they come to the forward is a matter of debate much more recently. then in addition to that, frankly, you have some politicians, presidential ambitions columnist as well, governor desantis in florida, has quite clearly and quite ostentatiously been asserting himself into some of these debates, the abortion ban, so-called anti woke act and things like that. >> why are we seeing this being dealt in state legislatures, rather than in washington, in congress at the white house? why are we seeing this come up in gubernatorial and legislative at the state level? >> i think a couple of reasons. one, in relation to gun laws, for example, obviously very salient, for very sad reasons. there has not been a lot of federal action on that area. the pro-gun control groups have increasingly focused on state legislatures, and have by their rights made some progress

there. so, that is one part of this picture. i think also, jesse, there is the fact that, our politics have become increasingly nationalized. the big issue, the ones that excite such passions, have become dominant even at state level, and as you said, gubernatorial races, sometimes even on a more hyper local level, things like school board elections, are now being fought on crt issues, things like that. >> is this a good thing? or is this bad, but these are going on, the same conversation going on in different places, likely coming to different solutions? is this a good thing or is there's a bad thing? >> one of the experts i spoke to suggested it was a good thing. his argument was that in a sense, it is the job of the states to experiment a little bit more. he put it that the federal government with their two guard things if they go completely crazy, but state legislature is

another state body, they can deal with these issues and a level, by its nature, closer to the people. so, a law but you might see in alabama is not necessarily the same kind of law for voters in vermont will support. so having those state level disparities, is not necessarily a bad thing. >> however, especially when it comes to hot button issues like gun control, abortion, does this mean that americans face different laws in different states? and they may or may not know what jurisdiction has which law? >> i think that is an important point, particularly on those two topics, on gun laws and abortion laws. we really do see very dramatic differences. obviously, on the gun question, there are all sorts of questions, whether one states law should be recognized in another state. in the abortion question, you and i have a region of the

nation, primarily in the south, that is prohibiting or coming close to prohibiting abortion completely. and the north east and west coast, they have taken an entirely different view, going out of their way to protect reproductive rights over there. so, does that contribute to the sense that we are in some ways to separate nations? possibly, but it is also reflective of the voters in those states. >> speaking of the voters in those places, there are some people who say that there is a national group, that is manipulating these state legislatures by trying to push through the same laws in different states, using lobbying, using their political powers. is that what we are seeing? do we see these shadowy national groups pushing through laws but states may not have moved on their own? >> so i want to be a little bit careful in answering that one. i think that the different laws

in different states reflect different political cultures in those states, different views on the part of voters. that said, if you want to nefariously effect things, you can do that and get more bang for your buck, honestly in state legislatures or even more localized areas. because those races do not typically come with budgets attached, certainly not the way a presidential election does for example, or even a senate race. so you can impact state legislatures, certainly school board elections, if you wish to do so much easier than you could do on the national level. >> are we seeing that? are we seeing more lobbying from larger groups, focusing on state legislature? one of the things we can see, congress is pretty much deadlocked. you will not get any more controversy or big name issues through congress. we see these groups moving money away from congress and where state legislatures?

or they can get changes they want? >> i think in broad terms, we do. certainly, we see an increased focus and an increased recognition of the importance of these issues or these matters. when you look at something like the debate over criminal race theory, 18 states have now passed some form of restriction or prohibition on what might broadly be called critical race theory. defining crt is a whole other battle, as you know. you know, abortion again, we talked about 13 states, with almost total prohibitions, 14 depending on how you characterize it, at the same number, with really tight restrictions. i think those kind of pivotal issues do encourage groups with interests, who are involving themselves to a greater extent. >> i want to get deeper into some of these issues. before i do, i want to remind our callers, they can take part in this conversation. we will open up our regular lines, that means democrats,

you can call in that 202-748-8000. republicans, your line will be 202-748-8001. independents, your line is going to be 202-748-8002. you might, you can always text us at 202-748-8003. and we are always on twitter, c-span, wga, facebook, facebook .com slash c-span. so i want to dive in a little bit more today about the gun laws in the u.s.. of course, we have been, we had that shooting yesterday in austin, texas. we see different states with different gun laws. and we see a whole plethora of gun law is trying to push through in several state legislatures. what, what is the landscape we see out there right now? >> i think there are a number of states that have actually passed more stringent gun laws recently. look at michigan, where

governor whitmer recently signed something that basically increases the storage requirements for guns. and washing things date governor, signing an actual assault weapons ban, and a number of other restrictions. colorado, governor polis. now the point i would make of it, those are all democratic governors. we are not seeing this kind of moves in the in places like texas, despite these catastrophic events. the uvalde massacre, as well as what we saw yesterday. there has not really been traction for gun control effort in texas. in fact, you remember jessie, the last gubernatorial election, we had governor abbott, who is a strong advocate, shall we say, of the second amendment, quite easily defeating beto o'rourke, the democrat, who have been pushing for much more stringent gun laws. >> how does one state decision

to perhaps, be more stringent on gun laws affect the next state across the border? where are these laws just entities undo themselves? >> i think they effect it, but in a fairly nebulous way. often, they affect the general perception of what may be politically possible. for a very long time, there was a perception that any mention of gun control is bad for democrats, good for republicans. i think that has been eroded in a number of these states. but it is not a universal rule. and there are these big differences between states which are much more resistant to gun control laws, and those that favor them. so does it have an impact? it has a sort of abstract impact, but not always a very specific one. >> you said earlier, state legislators and state law have a greater chance to experiment, especially when it comes to these hot button issues.

but, don't you have the supreme court in the entire court system looking over the shoulder saying, you want to do this in your state, but it's against the constitution? >> yes, they absolutely do. they have state troops that sometimes in giving themselves to take a very obvious example, we were just talking about the six-week abortion ban in florida. i'm not sure the media has done a great job pointing out that is not in effect yet, because the courts in florida will require components of the states constitution. then on top of, that you have of course the supreme court, a short distance from where we are sitting right now, kind of weighing in on any number of these matters and declaring state measures unconstitutional. >> looks like some of our viewers will take part in this conversation. we will start with mark, who was calling from florida on the democratic line. mark, good morning. >> hello, good morning. thank you for taking my call. since we are talking about

culture wars, and in the role of state legislatures, what does your guest know about the culture warrior, texas state representative brian slaton's little upset there? >> but very much is the honest answer to that, i don't know if you want to invite me or otherwise, but i'm not very aware of mr. slaton's activities you are alluding to. >> i think he may have dropped off. all right, so, actually i do not know what he's referring to as well. we will see if we can find out later in the show. let's go to gary who is calling from livingston, texas, on the republican line. >> gary, good morning. >> good morning. i just wanted to correct what you said a while ago. the shooting that happened yesterday, was in allen, texas

and not austin. thank you. >> did either of us say austin? >> i do not think. so but if we did, it was in allen, texas. let's go to luis, who was calling from kansas city, missouri on the independent line. luis, good morning. >> good morning. thank you for taking my call. could you discuss the difference between bribery and the influence of forces with congressman? >> that is actually a great question. and that could be a long discussion. i mean, the influence of money in politics is something that has been an issue for decades. but it seems to be intensifying as an issue. at what point is the purchase

of influence illegal? there is an old saying, that these gaveled is what is legal rather than what illegal. obviously, a lot of parties are very dependent on getting financial donations. they would argue universally, i would, think that does not affect the votes they cast were positions that they take. i will leave it up to you and the rest of our audience to adjudicate whether you think that is true or not. >> one of the things that we have seen, especially as it comes towards the next presidential election, we talked about this earlier, but some governors seem to be using these culture wars at the state level to let's just say, increase their national standings. is it a democratic party, the republican party, or any party particularly benefiting from

having these local state level culture war battles in their state legislatures? does that give the republicans an advantage? does that give democrats an advantage? >> i do not think it is that clear cut, it is a great question. i think there are some areas in which they benefit republicans. and to your point, presidential ambitions. you mentioned governor desantis earlier on. very clearly, he has used his state powers legitimately, to promote or gain prominence for a particularly conservative position on these culture war issues. but does it ultimately benefit one party or the other? i think for example, advocates for gun control would argue that they have had more success at the state level and federally, so it's not an issue, it's benefited the liberal side, on other issues like abortion, i think it primarily benefited republicans than conservatives. >> one issue that has popped up

on a local level that we have not talked about yet is the gender affirming care issue, and the transgender issues that we have seen all of the sudden, that seemed to be talk about in quite a few state legislatures. where do we stand with that? >> where do we stand with that is there are a number of legislatures considering, trying to pass. but that gets back to your previous point about which issues benefit which party. and it is notable there was a pull a couple of days ago in the washington post, that indicated that broadly speaking, the american public favored, we'll, more republican position, the poll that found a majority of americans believed that gender is determined by the sex assigned at birth, and a large majority of americans were opposed to trans women or girls being permitted to compete in sports with people who had the female sex assigned at birth.

so i think with that issue, that one were clearly, it seems to me, progressives, whatever term you want to use, have gone out in front of where the american public is. >> when you say out in front, you mean the left is not in a box? >> and it is not instep with where the american public are, yes. >> and how does that affect what goes on at the state level? does that mean that republicans can use its issue, and try to pass laws, to put them in an advantage in the next upcoming election? >> yes is the short answer. i think that is because you can use laws at the state level in the literal sense, try to private things, to encourage things, but also you will use laws at the state level to promote or amplify a particular issue. so on that issue, about what might broadly call trans rights, if republicans calculate, it seems me correctly, the data,

but the public is broadly sympathetic to their position, then they can push these bills in state legislatures, by means of keeping the national spotlight on those topics, and then there is a political advantage to be gleaned from that. >> let's go back to our phone lines, and this talk to richard, who is calling from verona, missouri, on the democratic line. richard, good morning. >> hello. i just wondered, i spoke a while ago, the guy wanted to do about bribes. you can't bribe a supreme justice, i never thought you could, but i wondered sometime, there are guns and abortions down in texas, you know. you know, it is a republican deal i guess, with abortions now. i was old enough to remember when abortion was illegal all

over, and women went to back alleys, and places like that, taking coat hangers and stuff like that, you know? so you can pass laws but it won't change peoples way to do things. now, there's guns, there is abortion. i hope this will be the death of the republican party this upcoming election, because i'm tired, i'm even frayed but going to the mall in springfield, getting shot. who want to go to church if you will get shot? so it's pretty disgusting, now. i have spent a long time, living, i've seen in history what these people are talking about. i've lived through that history. things are better now than they have been, i will go with that way, thank you, sir. >> yes, i think richard raises a number of interesting points there in relation to the supreme court, obviously the

current controversy around the justice thomas's, i would say, adding fuel to the coals, with there being a code of ethics for the supreme court justices, which it appears there is not at the moment, on the point of abortion. richard, the point that you raised about how things were in the past when abortion was illegal, i think it is an important one. certainly, there are republicans, moderate, centrist republicans who expressed concern about the party as they see, it pursuing too hard a line on. congresswoman nancy mace of south carolina for example, has suggested or required, or demanded that the party tried to find some middle ground on that issue, we would have to see if those calls honor that suggestion. >> let's go to rachel, who is calling from 40, texas, on the independent line. rachel, good morning. >> good morning. i was listening to someone on

c-span the other day, and they were talking about, with the deal expiring, it could sell military rifles. right after that, the cartels were able to get military rifles. that's when we started having problems with people coming over, from mexico. we had problems with illegal's coming over here. that's the time, when they will lift the brady bill that expired, over 80% to get military rifles could get them. but then, fox news, and conservative radio lied, and said that the sale of the military rifles could better help find the iraq war. and that is the reason why so many people allowed the brady bill to expire. why is it that fox is not held

accountable for the lives? >> i'm not exactly sure what your point is in relation to iraq, rachel. obviously, the assault weapons ban as you say, did expire. there have been calls, but leaves from president biden himself to try to resurrect that ban. there aren't immediate signs of that happening in congress anytime soon. but it remains a live political issue, just one, with the any intent action on. >> since the caller brought up fox news, i am wondering, how much effect does the statewide, local media have on the laws and the coverage? does their coverage affect these issues being fought at the state and local level, the way that we see congress being covered by the national media? does the same relationship exist at the state level? >> probably not, but for a reason you and i will probably find quite discouraging, which

is at the state level, the media has been hollowed out to a very considerable degree. one can basically look across the nation, at how many fewer correspondence there are, whether it is with state newspapers or state broadcasters, covering what goes on in these legislatures. i would argue that goes to the other point you raised earlier in the conversation, whether lobbyists, moneyed interests can affect things in the state legislatures. broadly speaking, we both know the media has those faults. we are not perfect. but broadly speaking, the less scrutiny there is of anybody in power, the more at liberty they feel to do shades the. so i think that is another problem. >> and for our viewers, i want y'all to know we do not forget, our wonderful producers have found this story in yahoo.com, i want to read to you, about

the lawmaker that our first caller asked about. a house committee in the texas state legislator on saturday, recommended the explosion of state representative brian slaton, who reportedly had a 19-year-old internet's apartment, had inappropriate sexual contact with her, and then gave her a loyalty test to try to pressure her to stay silent. but was the lawmaker, that the first caller was talking about. we did not forget about, it just wanted to make sure we brought it to you. you have anything you want to say about this? >> i don't. i mean, i literally was not aware of the allegation until you read it. by working assumption is that he denies that he did those things? >> that would be my assumption as well. >> i don't want to get too far ahead of what the facts are. but obviously, if those facts were out, that will be reprehensible conduct. >> now, are there national groups who specifically pushed legislation at state level, but

we can look at and see that, these groups are pushing these hot button issues at state levels? are there are groups who specialize in that? >> i think there are groups that are increasingly concentrated on that. so on the liberal side, i think, you can cite the demand for the pro-gun control group, in combination with an organization that's pre-match been affiliated with, has very much emphasized the capacity to change laws at the state level. now, on the conservative side, there are a number of groups, clearly concentrating, there were a number of groups i think affiliated with what used to be referred to as, there's only one brother particularly active in these things, and they clearly saw a purpose in

pushing laws at the state level, yes. >> let's go back to our phone lines and talk to michael, who was calling from sterling, virginia on the democratic line. michael, good morning. >> hello there. thank you so much, c-span, for taking my call. also for providing this forum. and i would like to mention my respect for mr. stanage and his willingness to take on an issue like culture wars, which i am sure is wide open and quite frightening from your perspective. i wanted to go back to something you said about the difficulty in determining where the line is, when we tried to determine someone's fundraising, or being influenced by money.

i never really thought about it much, but when you think of something, so i wanted to ask you to expand on this. how crazy is the idea, to completely pull public, not public but free money out of elections and elections, debates, that type of thing and then purely have it be taxpayer money that pays for that stuff? maybe possibly even require some of the media forums to provide space? and then do also have taxpayer money ensure that journalism is clear and transparent. and up right. i just want to know, how crazy

is the idea, to fully disallow any kind of money into the campaigns? just taking on taxpayer money. these people are working for the taxpayer anyways, you know? so i will just take your answer off line, thank you, sir. >> thank you for the kind words, michael. i will give you a brief answer. is not a crazy idea, the problem is we need to get lawmakers to vote for it before it becomes law. there are all sorts of examples elsewhere in the world of public funding of elections, on the banning or severe restriction of private funding. but can you get such a law passed here? i think that is really the question. you also raised the point about journalism, some disparity in journalism. i think that gets into a more tricky area. because then you get into government funded journalism, and people have, i think,

understandable concerns about that. >> at what point do the state movements on these hot button issues turn into constitutional issues, where states are now involving themselves in things that the federal government should be doing? the biggest example i can immediately think of is the border states and immigration. and there are complaints that washington is not doing anything. so they have to do something, but can they? >> that is a great point, we have not really got into immigration until now, which is, there are real, serious constitutional issues there because it is the bailey or responsibility of the government to make immigration law. then we have texas, which says we can't tolerate the criminal situation of thousands and thousands of people coming across the border. so in that issue, there are

clearly constitutional issues, clearly issues of federal power and the federalization of the system here. when you also have as the case with governor abbott, sending people to the border state, forces us to the border. then yes, you get into pretty constitutionally deep waters on that one. >> but wouldn't the same thing go for gun control, for example? sense we have had the second amendment, the interpretation of the second amendment is in the constitution? >> yes, i guess the scenario there would be one in which state legislatures passed a very restrictive gun control law, could so-called gun rights groups then protest against that and take it to the supreme court? i think if they can make a compelling case, that would actually violate the second amendment, of course, the supreme court right now, as

currently constituted has a clear conservative majority. so that hypothetical scenario, those gun rights groups might find quite a favorable hearing, i can imagine. >> and i know several of these hot button issues sometimes go to states with an expectation that a conservative state will do this, a liberal state will do that. but sometimes there is a surprise, like what happened in nebraska, in south carolina? and there are attempts to pass more stringent abortion laws. speak about this, based on what they do in presidential elections? >> great point. nebraska and south carolina, there is an attempt from both of those states that failed, and as legislators, despite the fact they are conservative states. i think that really goes to this complicated question of abortion, the politics of abortion. we've seen that almost as soon

as the supreme court struck down roe versus wade. you might remember, there was a ballot initiative in kansas that the liberal side, or pro-choice side, pro abortion rights side one. we've seen that pattern repeated in the number of places, as the same day of the midterm elections last year. there were ballot measures on the five states linking to abortion. the liberal side won all five, including in kentucky, and in montana, states that are not known for their liberal leanings. >> so is at the state legislature, not being where its constituents are, or maybe trying to get ahead of where's constituents are? >> it could also be the scenario, over and over again in politics, of politicians worrying about a challenge from the direct flight, the republicans, the left flank if they are democrats. so as we see them propose these bills, as has happened in south carolina, that was a near total

abortion ban being proposed. and the reason that failed, was they were slightly more moderate republicans who said i myself, and personally conservative, but can't vote for this. that was an interesting development. >> let's go back to our phone lines, and let's start with tom, who is calling from redford, michigan on the republican line. tom, good morning. >> good morning, gentlemen. so, i do have kind of a comment about gun control. you did bring up how governor whitmer decided the law, the new gun control laws for michigan, about storage and stuff like that. now with michigan, where the prosecutors are enforcing the law, the shooter actually was found with a concealed weapon

by the east lansing police. he went through the process of going through the courts and everything. they ended up charging him with a misdemeanor, carrying, illegally carrying a weapon in his vehicle rather than a felony gun charge. now, because of that he was able to purchase guns, that he then used to do the shooting in east lansing. now, if we have all these laws it is all well and good, but we're not enforcing these laws to begin with. it seems like the criminals who appropriate these guns will end up not following the laws anyways. i'd be curious to hear what your thoughts are on that. i think it is a very valid point, tom. it is one that comes up a lot. there is clearly on the liberal side a push for all kinds of gun control. you don't need me to repeat them. you know all the various measures that we are talking about. oftentimes, when something

tragic happens which it does with a depressing degree of frequency, people of note that some of these changes don't match up to the nature of the shooting. would a certain change in the law actually helped them to as you mention in east lansing, what happened in allen, texas yesterday -- you know, that is a valid point even though i also think people have valid concerns about the sheer number of firearms into this country and the ease of availability. the point about the laws not being enforced and so forth seems to be a legitimate point to make for sure. >> we have seen a list of culture war issues show up in state legislatures like reproductive rights, the gender affirming care. you don't hear as much about crt. it is still out there. as we move toward the presidential election, do you see any other cultural issues that you expect to see pop up

at the state legislative level? >> that is a great question. i think you have hit the main ones in what you just said. when we are talking a moment ago about immigration, immigration in a sense is a culture war issue, right? it goes to people's sense of security. it can also go to people's sense of a change in american culture. there are all sorts of different strands within that debate. there is clearly a very big divide overall between how democrats and conservatives see that. i think the main ones are the ones that you mentioned, the abortion debate, the gun law debate, the crt debate. governor desantis is in a battle with disney. i'm not sure that it is national because of such a -- i'm not sure other states are going to start acting. >> okay, let's take another call. let's go to phil who is calling from illinois on the independent line. good morning. >> good morning. okay, i find it in congress

that state legislatures want to protect the life of a fetus up until it's birth. they do not want to protect that same life by allowing high capacity semiautomatic guns to be owned so that those same children can be killed in school. >> yeah, sorry, phil, i wasn't sure if you are adding more to that. that is a point that i think is rightfully raised a lot. you know, the sanctity of life is something that is cited all the time by opponents of abortion. there was not much sanctity of life in texas yesterday, unfortunately. i think that that is a valid

point to raise again. i think you used the word in congress. i think that incongruity is something that politicians on the democratic illiberal side to raise on that particular topic a lot. >> as we see more of these culture war issues play out in state legislatures, we are also seeing more state legislators protest and take action inside their state chambers like the tennessee three and zoe is f or in montana. do you expect to see more of that as these hot button issues start showing up at the state legislative level? >> i think that the tennessee three case was particularly important and emblematic of some of these bigger issues. it started off as a debate, of course, about gun control. that was what sparked the original demonstrations for which those lawmakers were than expelled and subsequently

reinstated. the fact that the two lawmakers who were expelled were black clearly played into that discussion as well in a state that has, how would we put a diplomatically, a checkered history of race relations in the case of tennessee. i think that was a point where you saw these very explosive strains in american life of issues of racial equality and issues of gun control and violence come together in a very combustible mix. i think that is why that particular controversy got so much national attention, seemingly come from nowhere. i think we could see that happen again in the future. >> let's go back to our phone lines and talk to k who was calling from houston, texas on the democrat loan.

good morning. >> good morning. >> i was calling -- is the culture wars, i'm not really into that. it used to be more strong. >> more strong on what? tell us more about what you are talking about. >> i am from texas. this governor has weakened the law to have all of these people in this space. it's like the wild west again. it is maddening and out of control. you are talking about gun laws? is that what you are referring to? >> yes, yes i am. >> yeah, i mean, i am in a tricky position here. i'm not here to express personal political opinions. there clearly are a lot of people who share your feelings.

at the same time, there are many other texans who are very protective of the second amendment. i would note that in the wake of shootings in texas there have not really been restrictions on gun laws. i think it was only in 2021 that there was a permit-less carry law passed in texas. you know, you are absolutely entitled to the beliefs that you hold. aturthose beliefs have so far nt carried the day in the texas legislature or the governor's mansion. >> we are going to run out of time. before we do, i want to ask a question. we have talked about these culture war issues going down to the state legislative level. we've talked about crt being fought at the school board level. do we see these issues go into counting councils, town councils, city councils?

do we see these and it is getting ready to make their own judgment on these culture war issues? >> we do. i'm trying to think of examples. i've certainly read about instances we are having. honestly, councils don't really have much control over things like crt issues or abortion or things like that. those issues that are not really within the legislative field of influence of hyper local races become central issues in those races. i think that it's part of what we were talking about earlier, that nationalization of our politics. it becomes less about, do we think jane or john are going to be people who can find the school property? it becomes more about where they stand on a trans writer or something. that complicates the type of rules. >> it makes it a lot more important to participate in voting. >> absolutely. always do that.

>> we would like to thank denials standoffish, a white house columnist at the hill newspaper, for being with us this morning and talking us up about how controversial policy issues are playing out. thank you so much for being here. >> my pleasure. glad to meet you. >> this afternoon, fbi director christopher wray and dea administrator and milligram testify at a budget hearing about a number of law enforcement issues life before a senate appropriations subcommittee at 2:30 pm eastern on c-span 3. you can also watch on our free mobile video app, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. order your copy of the 118 congressional directory now available at c-spanshop.org. it is your access to the federal government with bio and contact information for every house and senate member and importantinfoation on congressional committees. scan the code at the right order your copy today or go to

the c-spanshop.org. it is 29 95 plus shipping and handling and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. >> book tv, every sunday on c-span two, features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. at 9 pm eastern, the former ceo of the b.e.t. network deborah lee recounts her career in the entertainment industry with her memoir i am generally. at 10 pm on afterwards, investigative reporter alexandra robbins provides a behind the scenes look at issues teachers face in the classroom today with her book the teachers. she is interviewed by madeleine will. watch book tv every sunday on c-span two and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime.