a pleasure to be with you today and to discuss a really important book from a guest that many of you may be quite familiar with and others may be engaging for the first time today, i want to introduce congresswoman mia love. hello, how are you? i'm doing very well. how are you? how are things in utah right now? it's snowing still. no, we got the big snowstorm and it is it just started again this morning. awesome. well, i hope you are staying warm and dry and thanks for taking time out of your day to speak with us. thank you. pleasure. now we want to start with this.

this awesome book qualify by mia love finding your voice leading with character and empowering others. how did you decide that was the time to write this book? well, i just felt like now, especially because i'm not a member of congress any longer, i just felt this sense of being just unshackle old. and i didn't i could say whatever i want to and i didn't have to worry about a real action that i could. people know who i am and why we need now more than ever, members of congress that are going to lead with character. what is it in this book that you think it's most important that you perhaps would not have been able to articulate the way you would have liked while you were in congress? i think what it's more what's

most important is my humble beginnings, the fact that my parents couldn't shop for us at the the really cool stores, that all other friends in school were shopping at, that a lot of my clothes, there were secondhand clothes. they were also, although it's cool now to be able to go to salvation army and shop, that's what my kids are doing. but they were clothes that got from walmart my parents, got from wal mart. i mean, they did what they could to make sure that ends meet and those are the things that people get embarrassed about or think that they're not qualified because they didn't grow up with a silver spoon in their mouth to read. but those are the people that should be leading. now, congresswoman, i remember that being a of your narrative, when you made history as the first black republican woman to go to congress, is there another part of your story that you feel

like was not highlighted as much as it should have been at that time, that you now feel like this book is able to address? well, i think it's able to address the reason why i am so pro immigration. good, thoughtful immigration policy, because i am an example of that. i am an example of good immigration policies where my parents were able to come and contribute to society and ended up having their daughter be the first black republican woman ever elected to congress. it's it's the american dream. your american dream is is quite a unique one. i mean, it's fair to say that most people are don't often hear about haitian immigrants going to utah and raising a daughter who becomes a lawmaker or so. can you talk to us a bit about that? details of your immigrant story?

well, my parents immigrated from haiti in the seventies and i talk about this in the book because it's so incredibly heart wrenching when i think about it. and i about this as a mother, how my mom and dad had to leave their two children behind for over five years. i was born in new york. my brother and my sister were still in haiti. my brother, i talk about the experience. it's after my dad went first to the united states and i talk about how my brother cried and cried and screamed at my mom and said daddy got on the big white bird and never came back. meaning the plane and never came back. please don't. and she had to pry his little hands away from hers and get on the plane while watching him scream, not knowing when she was going to be back to see him now, assuming many of our viewers are just less uninformed about haiti and its politics and its

history, what was it about 1970s haiti that led your parents to say, we need to go to the states? well, it was actually early, earlier than that. and again, this is addressed in the book. my dad was 14 and and he was being chased along with some other people by the tonton marcoux. but those were the thugs that were that were that did the bidding of the dictator at the time. that was at the time they no law applied to them. they could do whatever they wanted to and they wouldn't they wouldn't be questioned for it. and so if a young man got in the hands of a total recruit that was having a bad day or that wasn't doing that felt like he wanted to do whatever. there was no chance for them. there was no justice for them. and so my dad hid in a sewage pipe for a long time until daylight. and he went to his mom and his mom that he had died. his mom just thought that he didn't come home at night, that he was dead somewhere.

and so my dad decided at that early age that he was not going to raise children because he did not want to feel the same way his mother felt. he saw the look on his mother's face. and he said, i'm not going to raise children in this kind of situation. and he decided that age that he was going to at some point when he had a family raise his children in the beautiful country, he'd only heard about the united states of america and he, in fact, did do that. when you think about your father, your your father in particular, his story, what he went through to come to the states to provide a better life for you and your siblings, how does that shape your views on immigration when looking at current individuals trying to come to the states to flee comparably chaotic situation shifts? yeah, well, i think about immigrants, but i think about my parents. i think about how my dad said

the greatest day of his life was when he pledged the allegiance, the american flag, and he knew exactly what he was saying. and he meant every word of it. he said he studied the constitution and studied american history and feels very strongly even today, that his love for america is stronger than so many americans, people that were born in this country. and i said, dad, what makes you say that? and he said, because i know what it's like to live outside of this country. i know what it's like. i don't take it for granted. and how did that patriotism shape you as a child? were you a kid knew, you know, before middle school that you wanted to be a lawmaker? or is sarah sanders okay? but i imagine something i said i wanted to do when i grow up. you know, this politics was never one of those things that i

wanted to get involved in. but it did shape my love and my patriotism for america. i because i knew of these stories i sat at my father's foot as he told me these stories of growing up. i he was actually he had they had his family had a farm and. he had to walk with donkeys up the mountain to try and gain the work, the farm, get food, come down. it was a treat. forrest's walk, it was really hard to make to live in haiti. it was really it was just a struggle every day. but he told me about what a dictatorship was like. he told me about the differences and why america is so great and why it's important for people to continue to have power, not government have power. i grew up with all of those stories and i appreciate that

this country and i knew that no matter what, i would at some point do what i can to not be a burden to society to give back any chance i had. i was going to give back. and that started early on in my adult life, being on the city council in saratoga springs and eventually becoming mayor. so obviously you had the privilege of not growing up under a dictator, but when you reflect on your childhood, what is what are some of the things you remember loving most about this country separately, perhaps from what father loved the most about america. well, i love the fact that i mean, it's very hard as a child to grow up and and live here and know that you just take the you you just take what america gives for granted. but one of the things i love the most growing up is that my parents told me and even my

teachers, it was up to me. i could be whoever i wanted to be. i could do whatever i wanted to do. as long as i worked hard for it, i could be a doctor. i could be a teacher. i knew that that privilege was available to me here. and while you were certain that you didn't want to be a lawmaker, what are some of the goals you remember pursuing? and striving for as a young child? oh gosh. i mean, i was involved in choir. i was involved in all of the musical. i knew that i wanted to get all i knew at that time as i wanted to get good grades so i could have options because at that, when i was really young, i didn't know what i wanted to do. i never said that i didn't want become a a congressman. i just said that that wasn't what i wanted to do. it's not what i said i wanted to do. and i up i knew that i wanted to. i mean, in my mind, i was going to i was going to perform on

broadway musicals because i, i did performing arts in college. i was just i just loved the, the world of musicals and entertaining and making people feel good when one might say that lawmaking as entertaining and some ways that are quite different from, what you were striving for as a young person, but you did find your way to the halls of congress and had a memorable impact in terms of history making and also in terms of helping people rethink what an american looks like, what do you think of when you think about the impact you had in congress retrospectively? well, i think, first of all, there are several facets of this. first of all, i've always said, yes, the first black republican woman ever elected to congress. i certainly hope i'm not the last. but one of the frustrating things that i found is, it was

really difficult to get it, especially people in my party to get to allow me to lead in areas like immigration, like women's issues that that i was about and that the messenger counts. when you're sending out a message, people that you're trying to speak to need to feel like you relate to them. you understand them. and that's one of the things that i continue to tell even kevin mccarthy today. and all of the and the gop leaders today is the messenger counts. and we have to put forward people who are who can deliver that message so resonates to the ones that we want to speak to i mean it's just i that that impact i hope i'm not the last the impact also is that you don't have to be an attorney graduated from harvard and i try

to try to really emphasize this in this book that your experiences especially the humble ones your your the things that framed your life is as long as you are leading by the content of your character, as long as you are leading by who you are and what you believe in, those that's what really matters. that's what really that's what leaders should do. and that's who leaders are. there's been a long, constructive rebuttal. i'm sorry i interrupted you. you were talking about it not being comfortable. it's not comfortable. it's not comfortable all the time. i mean, you've got so many people that are expecting you to say things a certain way, do things a certain way. but when you lead y character, you know, right from wrong, you stand up for the things that are right and and you call out the things that are wrong and you end it. at the end of the day, that's

what we need. i joined the congressional black caucus. i was the only republican in the congressional black caucus because i had a motto. i said, leaders put themselves in uncomfortable positions or situations and get comfortable there. it was uncomfortable for me to be the only republican there, and i got really comfortable there because i made friends and i found people that i love dearly to this day that i call my brother or sisters because we found things that we can work on together. you talk about that experience a bit in the chapter in your book titled good trouble. i'm paraphrasing it, but i remember that phrase being in the chapter title because it's a nod to an iconic saying from the late representative john lewis, who i know you had the privilege to serve. can you talk a bit more about your time as the only republican in the cbc and why you may think

it's important and valuable for current republicans, black republicans in congress to attempt to join this really influential caucus? yeah. and, you know, it's just not, like i said, a lot of people said, don't do it, man. it's not going to be they're not going to like you. it's not going to be comfortable. your policies do not align. you know, just stick with the conference. well, i was in the conference, the gop conference. but then i decided that maybe i would just take a chance and join. and i met up with marcia marcia fudge, who ended up becoming like she was my chosen big sister. there i had paul ryan, who was my mentor and big brother, who i would go to for advice and help. but i also marcia fudge, which made me so much more well-rounded, but there's a great example that came from that, where cedric richmond on the way to the state of the union, we talked, he said, you know, we see so much and we see so many things in the same way.

why are you republican? i said because of the stories that my dad would tell me about why. it's important that people have power and that we don't centralize power and dictators and, people who are able to have too much power in the highest levels of government. it's so bad for the united for people. and i also said that being a mayor a city council, i found that the most efficient, the most effective solutions are found at the most local level. i was able to address issues very quickly and the closer you get decision making to people, the better it is. and cedric told me he's like, i understand that. he's like, i think differently because the local level is what kept my family ancestors from having the ability to vote, from having. they were the ones that chased

us down in the streets that didn't give us the rights, and we had to go to the federal government to finally make sure that the states allowed us to vote without fear of harm or being jailed and i got him. we got each other because we saw the perspectives from from each other's point of view and it made it so that we looked for each other and we found ways to work together and things that we could agree on. it's such an important point. i different americans have different with small government in terms of making their lives better or worse. and that certainly shapes their politics and the policies that they support. what is it in the current gop? you've been out of congress for a few years now that you find yourself aligning with most, and what do you find yourself

disagreeing with most? well, i well, the principles again, the principle of free markets is really important. those are the things that my dad was able to come to the united, a $10 in his pocket. he found work. and the harder he worked, the more he progressed in his work, the more money he was to make it was those. it was the mom and pop shops, the small businessmen that were able to hire my dad. he had three jobs to make ends meet. one was him being a janitor, cleaning toilets in order to pay for books for me, for college, we need to be able to continue to have the opportunities to, give people as many opportunities so they can be as ordinary peers, extraordinary as they as they choose to be. but we cannot burden them with high taxes. i am still pro lower taxes. we have to be able to allow families to take care of each other. we have to be able to depend on

each other and have this idea that we have an obligation to care for those who cannot care for themselves. instead of looking to government, to do it for them. i still believe that we have to find a way again along with lower taxes to lower gas prices, to lower inflation. it's hurting americans to give people as much access as possible and to let them be the masters of their own success instead of making people dependent on a federal government to do everything in everything for them and on issues you disagree with, i mean, one could argue that the gop exists today is is quite different in some areas from the one you were a part of, at least on the hill. i think the you know, that's really that's a little that's a little more i certainly wasn't

prepared to i could have thought about it a little bit more. i disagreed in the past, obviously, with some of the statements that the former president made, some of the issues that that he brought up. i disagree with. i do not believe if there's any disagreement, it would be this our job as leaders is not to attack people. we should attack problems and not care who takes credit for it. we should never make it our policy or make it a point to attack individuals or americans. we're in the same boat and what we all need to realize is that there are countries out there that do not want us to succeed, that want us to fail. there are entities out there that just do not want.

america to exist, and we need to work together to keep that at bay. foreign policy is a big issue and we need we're worried and we need to watch out what's happening with with russia, with china. we are if we take our eyes off of the off of the conflicts there, we're going to find ourselves a bit unprepared for the problems that are coming at us. you obviously write about finding your voice and you still sound very passionate about quite a few ideas. can you talk a bit about how you've been able to find your voice after leaving congress? what does finding your voice look like for you now at this stage in your life? i finding my voice meant accepting all of the things that made me who i am accepting and acknowledge. gee, i talk about so many stories that i would i was embarrassed about. i would have never stood on the floor and talked about some of

the things that i experienced as a child. and there's nothing to be embarrassed about because it made me who i am. it made me who i am. my mom's being embarrassed about my mom's really thick, heavy accent, trying to fit in, you know, being a leader is not trying. it's not about trying to fit. it's about letting people be who they are and letting them live out their american dream, their version of the american dream, not mine, but theirs. it's about knowing that sometimes and i say this and i and i've said this over and over again, failure is fertilizer for the future. parents taught me that everything that you learn from the mistakes of today and yesterday will benefit you in the future. but you have to learn from them. the only failure is not learning

and growing from from that. from that failure. when you think back on your time in washington, what would you say was your greatest failure as a lawmaker. i would say my greatest failure is not speaking up enough or more. speaking up enough or more. i always felt like i needed to wait my turn. wait till i'm called upon. wait till i am. that would be my biggest failure. i could have spoken up and out more. and what would you have said? well, there's a lot to say. depends on moment, right? yeah. depends on the moments. mm hmm. mm hmm. i, i should have done, i think,

more tv than i did so i could get my message out. not what i was told or what i was told to get it out. right. i feel as if i should have done more that way. what i would have said. i would have spoken out more about immigration. i would have spoken out more about some of the great things that i was working out. and i always thought to myself, i shouldn't i mean, i shouldn't boast about about the things that i've done. i always looked down upon that and i should've spoken up. i was i authored a bill called the stop act stop taxpayer obligation to perpetrators of sexual harassment. there was a fund out there that if a member of congress. was accused of a sexual harasser moment or there they would be

able to make it go away by being able to settle with with taxpayers dollars, with the accuser and make the issue go away. but i authored that and i passed that bill. and it's no longer they can no longer use taxpayer dollars to do that. and i think it's helpful to have due diligence if you are innocent, then make it make your voice heard. protest that innocence and have your due diligence go out and defend yourself. speaking of the bill, you just mentioned, as as i'm sure pay quite a bit of attention to, there have been quite a few metoo moments on capitol hill as since you left congress. why do you think that this issue became its prominent other topic as it did when it did, considering how long it existed?

well, i was actually in congress when a lot of that was out. so many. i just i just did. it comes from two things. one, people may be getting a little too comfortable, maybe getting a little too a little too confident. you need a little bit of humility. and women not speaking up enough and saying, you know what, this is uncomfortable and it's really interesting because i've actually had moments where i've actually said, this is not me. this is uncomfortable. i'm not the one to mess with. turn around and walk away. i and you. and it's. it's. but i was not subordinate to anyone. right. and when you were in that position, you realize that there's somebody. that can affect your job or can affect your work. it's hard to do. so i was in a different

position. it's harder. it's harder to do when it's somebody that affects your work. but i've i've said this and i will continue to say this. we need to start having uncomfortable conversations with our girls, with our boys. we need to make sure that they know what's appropriate, what's not appropriate. you're right. none that i have conversations with. you know, he's 15. and i tell him, i. i talk to all the time so that he's very clear before he ever gets himself in a situation that might make someone else uncomfortable or compromise compromise himself. i have two girls. i have conversation with all the time. you write in the book quite a bit about being a parent, and i

would love to hear how, you know, as you have gone about raising kids over the past few years, how that has shaped your political worldview and your positions on policy and your outlook on how this country should function completely. it has completely because everything i did in washington was to make sure that my children had a better had a better country, an improved country to be raised and preserve the things that made this country great and improve upon the things that can that can improve this country. i mean, we my kids know more about policy. as a matter of fact, my daughter is a fellow at the center for growth and opportunity at utah state university. she writes policy not from a political standpoint, not from a republican or left or right

standpoint. she just uses data to talk about why immigration is good for the u.s. economy, why it's good for us as a country and as a people. and it's i mean, i just i love the fact that she's doing that and that my my being involved has made my kids realize that they have to be involved. they have to stand up. they have to make their voice heard. or someone else inferior to them is going to it for them. but no, no political ambitions have been vocalized yet. bear with you for my kids. yeah. they also saw the bad. they also saw the apathy. they also saw that. you can't even. i had to turn off social several times just because people can be so cruel. i think they can be. and another thing that this book

does is it talks about who i am authentically instead of letting somebody else tell people who i am. there's a lot of that that goes on when a member of congress. oh she's this or she's this. she's not really black. she's. or else she wouldn't be gop or she wouldn't be saying these things. mean all of that. i get tell my story. i get to talk about who i am because there were so many lies that were put out there during campaigns. there are so many different things. and i said i get to tell who i am and i that what this book does than anything else is anyone who reads it sees it the way that they can be involved, that they can actually lead that are not to listen to the noise of the people that are telling you you're not experienced enough.

you're not good enough. you don't have the right type of pedigree that they can they could lead and that the. thing that qualifies that is their character. what what is the biggest miss perception about you that you feel like you were able to clear up in this book? because this idea, because i'm a black female that i should have i should be a democrat or i should be this or i should be that and. i never and i hope people understand this don't allow anyone to ever put you in a box. i went to chicago once and i was speaking to a group, the university of chicago speaking to a group of aspiring attorneys and again, i was told, nia, don't go. these people are obama people and they will hate you. and they will boo you out of them and you're going to universities. it was just they were like, it's not a good time for you to go.

don't do it. and i remember told my story. i spoke about who i am and what i believe. and one young lady stood up and she said i don't understand how you could be on the wrong side of the fence. you could be a black female, how you could be a republican living in utah, being a member of the church of latter day saints, of jesus christ of latter day saints, mormon or lds. how could you be all things. and i said am all these things because i refuse to fit a model that society tells me to fit into a mold that they say, this is where you belong. this is what you should think. this is how you should think. and i said, if martin luther king didn't stand up to government and say that we are not second class citizens, you would not be here today. didn't fit this mold it that government wanted to fit him into. he didn't fit this mold. he said, i am much more than that. i said, don't take my policies. i don't want you to take my

policies and believe my policies and run it. what i want you is to your right to think for yourself and to have your own thoughts for you self and your family. that's what i want. you are here because you're a human being that deserves to be here and you're working for your right to an attorney and to be whoever you want to be to be as extraordinary or as ordinary as you choose, to be. your point about not fitting in a box because of your gender or your ethnicity, it's one that is frequently made by former south carolina governor nikki haley. and and we hear also from senator tim scott from south carolina also making that case quite bit. and i think we'll hear that point just resurface here on the campaign trail next year as the gop seeks to figure out who is

going to nominate who they're going to nominate heading into 2024. do you feel like since you left congress that your party is more welcoming to more people, color to more women to more individuals who are less likely be define and in a traditional way. when we start of republicans i think whole as a whole that's what that's what our principles would suggest. i think as a whole, yes. i think there are certain individuals that do not represent the best of what we believe in. i mean, you look at people like nikki haley, like tim scott, you look at, gosh, i served with will hurd and carlos curbelo. we used to have this joke. as a matter of fact, when there were in the gallery and we were on the floor and we were talking

together and i would say we need to disperse. we can't be helped. we can't sit a clump and talk together. we need to we need to look, at least from there more diverse. we need to disperse. and i have always encouraged and what want us to to make sure that we're being as open and and diverse as possible because the policies that i believe in that i subscribe to as a member of the gop are good for everyone or good for minority families, are good you name it. that's why again, i am so i'm such an advocate of. immigration policies because if we are not setting up good immigration policies we can either set those policies up or things happen to us as we see on the borders today, we see the

horrible things that happen on the borders. people being left under bridges. i was i was when i saw how the haitian people were being treated as they were trying to get get their piece of the american dream. it was horrible. we need to have some policies. it's in our constitution uniform rule of naturalization article one, section eight. that means that we have to have a uniform rule of a way in. those things. i mean, you watch that. i mean, those are the i was incredibly passionate about those things because they so who i am. and you're still incredibly passionate about it. obviously. and i would love to hear your thoughts on the main thing you believe the biden administration is getting wrong when it comes to immigration right now. they're not addressing

immigration policy at all. they had the house, they had this senate and the white house that a perfect time to see what they put forward, what they could put forth, and nothing was done. nothing was done. we are our children are being killed by fed now. every day that's coming in across the border. i just there i was on financial services in over to terrorism and all this and financing. i was also over human and sex trafficking in the united states and how that was happening. i mean, we have a responsibility make sure that that is not happening at our borders. but but it is people are doing some horrible and bringing children in to being trafficked

for the purpose of trafficking. it's it's it's just an acceptable you are passionate about children and you speak about the youth quite a bit what type of advice would you give to new lawmakers are trying to balance being a represent and raising kids in this country at same time just remember what you're doing it for. you're doing it for. i did. i every policy i thought about my children all the time and what country they were going to be left with. and that includes kids. another thing that i agree with with the gop is that we need to do something about our out of control debt and spending. there's no way. i mean, you can't even get your arms it. but you have to start you have

to start even if it means that we have a balanced in 20 years we have start we cannot leave our children with this with this type of burden. what would i tell my children? you asked me a question. i got off track. what would i what would i say to the youth or to newcomers yeah, to to you know, there are quite a few moms and dads of young children who have just started in congress this this session. and you know what? it's like to have young children and be in washington for quite a bit of time. and i will i would love to hear what you would tell them. how how do you balance that? i would say don't shy away from going home. go home, come back. remember who you're fighting for and what you're doing it for. i mean, being a member of congress, i still thank goodness for modern technology, but i would face time. my children, my daughter would say, mom, do you know where my son garrett is? is do you know where this is? do you know where that is?

i would still have conversations with my kids as a matter of fact, every night at 10:00 eastern time, i knew it was 8:00. and my kids were getting ready for bed. i would have a conversation with them and i would be stuck right here. they couldn't go anywhere. they would have to be right here with me having a conversation about the day to just remember who you're fighting for. keep in touch with what's going on at home so that you can represent people better now that you're in the district. more, are you seeing that's going on at home, on the ground with with americans, with voters with students that you feel like people in washington might be missing frustration with washington frustration with washington.

people's lives aren't getting any better. my kids are watching adults on tv be absolutely horrible to each other. things that aren't getting done. also there are there are so many people. i mean, the biden administration and i'm with him this i wish he would do something. but the biden administration talked about the noble cause of eradicating cancer, of just doing everything that they wanted. but i've seen no movement. they also promised doing something on immigration, and i've seen nothing, just i'm frustrated, just like people are frustrated because they're like, we're all these promises instead of the promises kept, we're seeing still gas prices are still high. inflation is not i mean, the what we're getting in terms of what we're in paychecks not matching what the the rise of

inflation people are still they're having more of a hard time making ends meet, putting food on the table, taking care of their family. and what would you encourage your neighbors to do with those frustrations? we know that apathy is a real issue amongst so many americans. and while others, you know, our motivated to become more engaged somehow civically or through nonprofit work or entering politics themselves. how would you encourage someone to move for more? despite their frustration? i would say, first of all, read book because they they would get a heads up to expect. i mean, i talk about imposter syndrome. i talk about all the people and all the noise coming at you, making you doubt yourself, doubt your qualifications. i would say, first of all, read the book. second, figure out what you

passionate about and then go and lead on that. i would love to hear how you overcame your own imposter syndrome and where you feel like those origins came from. yeah, i think that there are. i think it's something that women experience a lot of. so i just i'm not really sure where it comes from, but i think it's just history, not women not being in positions of leadership, all of those i mean, you start to you start to doubt whether you can they couldn't. well, could i now we need to have women that are women that actually are in leadership, that are ceos. so that instead of if they couldn't, could i are you that are say they could so so can i.

they could they did it. i can do it too. and what is it that you think you can now that maybe you didn't think you could do before you got to congress? what are you focused on now goal wise? well, i'm i'm so focused on i mean, it's it's i'm still able to speak on policy. i have a different opinion. i'm i'm political commentator on cnn. i'm able to get on and have an authentic opinion a diverse opinion so that people can make informed decision. i'm still working to give people access to information and encouraging americans to be involved, to stand up and get involved in happening in our country. and are you finding that to be something that's easier now that you're outside congress, or are there new challenges you find yourself facing? i'm not at the challenges.

i mean, there's still, again, i think that there are the it's actually a little easier. it's a little easier because i have now asked my opinion. i don't necessarily have to solve them as. a member of congress, you have to offer a solution. and i mean, even i still offer a solution. it's just not going to be a scrutiny as it was when i was a member of congress. so can still it's a little easier that way if someone who covers lawmaking. one of the things i'm very aware of that makes offering solutions quite difficult is that this is this a huge country? it's incredibly diverse. lots of lots of people impacted differently by these issues and finding solutions that work for all of them. isn't an easy task. as someone who was tasked with finding solutions, what did you

find to be the most difficult part about that process. it's the what i found is that there are some solutions the problem is that are some issues that are used as wedge issues by the political side of both sides of the party right. so you've got the i see you've got the the triple c, those it's about winning and less about solving problems. and how can people pivot in congress from focusing winning to actually finding solutions to people's problems like what did you find to be most effective when you were centering solutions and the people impacted by them. i again, i didn't care who took

credit for it. if i had an idea there are times where i would go to a partner with a person, with a member on the other side of the aisle. i did that with kyrsten sinema on financial services quite a bit i mean our states are pretty closely hands issues were very similar we things that we could work on and then i, i started again working with my friends emanuel cleaver you call him rev came to utah and did a poverty workshop together. we taught we went to talk to as many different entities possible and we we talked about the difference between generational poverty and situational poverty and answer for one is not the answer for the other. sometimes you need different types of solutions because if you try to if you try to solve situate single poverty with the

solution for, generational poverty, it just creates a bigger problem. but having discussions and talking and finding sometimes not just one solution, sometimes it's the larger solutions sometimes it's a it's a a collaboration. bipartisanship seems very difficult and increasingly rare right now when. you look at capitol hill, do you have any ideas of how lawmakers can cut through that. okay, say it again. i'm sorry. you were you were sharing your experiences, working with people from the other side of the aisle, which is not something that happens as as much as i think a lot of americans, what like when they look at our current congress and i was wondering if you had any suggestions for how lawmakers could make some gains in that

area. they just have let go of their ego and. also let go what they think may be good or bad for them in an and join i mean, joining the congressional black caucus wasn't a political it wasn't a political move. it wasn't something that i could go back to my district and say, yes, i join this or i did this, but i did it, and i was able to get some great things done. so it just means and i'm going to say it again, this is the whole idea don't lead by policy don't lead by who is in front of you don't lead by who's in the white house. don't lead by what you are. what the house leadership or the senate leadership says lead by character. lead by character. and you'll get things done for

people lead by what's right and wrong versus what's left. and right. and lastly, you getting things done and i would love to hear if you're hoping to get things again on capitol hill or a return to a political office in some other capacity. well, i am not going say no if the opportunity arises and i can make a difference, it's my obligation and i would do that for everyone else. also, it would be my obligation to do it, and i'll be ready when the time comes, when that tap on the shoulder comes as what winston churchill says, will you be ready ready? well, finest hour. i will be ready. well, until then, congresswoman, we thank you for taking time. talk with us today and to share your thoughts and your experiences and and values on on

character, on leadership, on the qualifications that made you who you are and make carrying as you move forward. thank you so much for joining us. thank you. thank. appreciate it. hope you enjoyed the book.

good evening. and he represents rhode island in the united states