continues. host: cornel west is with us.

he is now the green party presidential candidate, author and activist and professor emeritus at princeton university running for president. professor, why did you decide to enter the race? guest: first, i just want to thank you. i entered the race because i think we are at such a low point in the history of america. we have got to reintroduce each other to the best of ourselves, the best of our tradition. [indiscernible] we are at a point now where there is so much hatred and not enough talk about love and justice, not enough talk about something bigger than ourselves. what is bigger? truth.

i am in it because i'm engaged in the quest for truth and justice. for me, it is a matter of raising my voice and making sure that we acknowledge the ways in which the two-party system is an impediment for dealing with the problems of working people here and around the world. both parties have big money, wall street [indiscernible] u.s. troops in 150 countries, $.57 for every dollar going to the military. we need jobs with a living wage. we need decent housing, quality education, the basic social needs. you can imagine disproportionately black and

brown are wrestling with poverty. the abolition of poverty and homelessness. i want jobs with a living wage across the board. i want a u.s. foreign policy that is not tied just a big money and corporate interest. i want a foreign policy that acknowledges the land which america is a nation among nations. we don't have to be the policeman of the world. i know i should stop there. host: we wanted to make sure that our callers know that our lines are open for dr. west. one line for republicans, one for democrats, one for independents and all others. your displeasure with the two-party system is no surprise. it has been the theme of many of the conversations you have had on this network and elsewhere. what pushed you to say this time i'm running for president? guest: i just thought about all

of the creative, imaginative, courageous fellow citizens that i need and how we end up with two candidates? trump on the one hand, biden on the other. good god. with brother trump, you have got a gangster in the objective sense. i don't hate brother trump, i just hate his gangster activity. he is pushing us toward an almost kind of civil war. biden, again, i love the brother but he is a hypocrite. he is pushing toward world war iii when you talk about what he has to say about china and russia. we can have high-quality citizens actually become politicians, but they cannot be politicians because many are paid off by big money. many are captured by wall street and silicon valley. we need citizens who become

politicians, concerned about the plight and predicament of the vulnerable ones. i came out of my position at shiloh baptist church [indiscernible] i look at the world through the eyes of the least of these. host: dr. president biden. you said he is -- back to president biden. he said he is a hypocrite. where else do you think the president's policies have been hypocritical? guest: he promised -- and would not push it. he promised $15 minimum wage and would not fight for it. he promised voting rights and he would not touch it or make a deal with manchin. that is our conservative brother down in west virginia. when it came to the debt ceiling

agreement, what happened? cut back on the poor, expand military and make the deal with manchin. that is one of the few times it seems to me that not just biden but the democratic party as a whole -- as you know, i was very close with bernie sanders. he was not treated justly. he was not treated right. the democratic party is undemocratic in that sense. [indiscernible] it seems to me that we are concerned about truth and justice and if we want to preserve whatever is left of our present democracy, we have to engage in the critique of the oligarchy and critique of the way in which two parties with ties to big money, big military, corporate wealth.

60% of our american citizens are struggling to make it month by month. host: we have a number of calls for you, dr. west. i do want to ask you in a bit about your strategy. now, you are a green party candidate, and getting on the ballot across the country. let's get to our callers and hear their comments and questions first. let's start with elise from springfield, virginia. caller: it is a pleasure to speak to you. i have to tell you, after listening to c-span, i really think that we need to abolish all political parties and get rid of money in politics. but that is just my opinion. i totally agree with you on some points. i wish that there was a way to address on the student loan issue because kids have been taking out student loans are working with a system that is

almost a kin to loansharking. also, the other thing that i find really interesting, and this is from the gentleman who called from florida, he is rabidly against any type of help for students in this country, but we watch the stock market program every day. there are now four programs, four organizations that are there to help businesses to get $26,000 per employee as they receive ppp grants. they make it very clear they don't have to pay that $26,000 per employee back. so for the republicans who are sitting in their chairs with steam coming out of their ears, can you imagine how we feel knowing that they get to subsidize businesses and our

students don't get anything? the issue of abortion? do you really think that we need to put our little girls on birth control as soon as they hit -- because some guy wants to rape them in advance? there is no consideration for children in this country. we have people swearing up and down on bibles, but they don't have a problem with having guns that kill them. i find that both political parties and people who call in and swear that this is their opinion and it is the gospel, they are doing more damage to our public and our citizens by the way that they are so negative and so hateful. host: elise in virginia. guest: i resume a lot with what

my dear sister is saying. part of the problem is we have to learn to be self-critical without being -- and self-confident without being self-righteous. we need a certain kind of futility while tied to a certain tenacity. there's nothing wrong with standing up for your views, but we have to learn how to listen and take other people's views seriously. that is what public life is all about. once democracy loses that, you get into polarized name-calling and you end up with gangsterized and bows and arrows going both directions. when you think about children, my god. 23% of children live in poverty in the richest nation in the history of the world. we have so much big money floating at the top. it is hemorrhaged at the top. there has been a massive distribution from working people to the top.

organized greed at the top. greed runs through all of it because as human beings, we all have greed. organized greed is what we are dealing with and it makes no sense to have three individuals with wealth and equivalent to the bottom 150 million american citizens. three individuals that have wealth equivalent to 50% of the american citizenry. one person at the top have wealth equal to 90%. they say we deserve it. please. we know the arbitrary nature of the redistribution of wealth has gone from working people to the well-to-do in the last 50 years. that is what we need to call radically into question. my campaign really is tied to my own calling. my calling is something that

cuts so much deeper than partisan politics. it is tied to how do we keep track of each other's humanity and access the best that each and everyone of us knowing that all of us have the worst inside of us? host: let's hear from tonya in cincinnati. good morning. tonya on the democrats line in cincinnati. are you with us? tonya, one more time. then we will go to isaac. isaac is calling on the republican line in woodbridge, virginia. caller: hello. i have been a fan of yours for a long time and i watch a lot of your lectures and i read your books. one of the most discussed topics you discuss is race relations in america. you claim that a jim crow junior is still very prevalent in american society. so, my question for you is, how

do you explain the phenomenon that many african immigrants, including ugandan americans, ghanian americans and especially nigerian americans are some of the most successful and immigrant groups in america? guest: appreciate the question. you and i know that if we were to look at the mass incarceration regime in america, what do we find? a disproportion of black and browns. i'm here in california. black people in california are 6%, almost 35% of the homes. what is going on? it has much to do with the fact that when you have a group like myself, black folks who have been here for nine generations, enslaved for over 100 years and then slavery with jim crow and lynching, disenfranchisement for another hundred years, that is different than our precious african brothers and sisters, caribbean's, who are voluntary

immigrants. who come in hitting the ground already with a tremendous self of sense confidence -- sense of self-confidence. it is the same with our european brothers and sisters who came. when i say jim crow junior, what i say is the american apartheid system was legal segregation, legal jim crow, but to factor -- de facto. where people live, the schools people attend, the networks people have access to. that is the jim crow junior. we are talking about not losing sight of the humanity. you are right. immigrants are not monolithic

but they are very different. culture makes a difference, strong institutions make a difference. but when you have deep institutions that are racist and white supremacist in terms of how they connect, relate, perceive black folks, especially black folks who have been here for a long time, then you have something going else. keep in mind, we are never solely victims. i come from a black people who have produced some of the greatest warriors and freedom fighters in the face of overwhelming trauma, overwhelming terror. every community has its thugs. i have a lot of gangster in me. i work on it every day. host: here is joseph in compton, california. democrats line. caller: good morning.

it is an honor to talk to you, mr. cornel west. i read your books. i also come from the streets of the gangster. i have been watching this stuff going on in america/ it led me to proclaim the great jubilee. as we see this republican party claiming the system is being messed up because of donald trump gangsterism, we have been living under the suppression of the federal government since we have been here. under the concept of jubilee that has been written on the liberty bell, i am proposing to pardon all my brothers and sisters that have been mistreated under the federal criminal system. it is this right that we have two proclaim this right of jubilee. in jubilee, that all public officials should resign. it is not term limits because everybody has a right to also be reappointed.

even they gave obama a chance to run. by jubilee, we can start this whole system all over and give it a free chance but they are not willing to do that. because it is difficult, but this is what is bogging us down as a people. it is going to happen but just as we be bold enough and claim it and do the right thing and turn this world right side up, we all know we come up in this world upside down. now, we see the kingdom of love. host: dr. west, your thoughts. guest: i appreciate my brother's spirit and his words. i think when they are talking about jubilee is the physical conception of justice. you see that in hebrew scripture. again, it has to deal with trying to understand the

acknowledgment the damage done and then trying to repair it. that is what reparation is all about. i don't see how one can be fundamentally committed to truth and justice and not also committed to some form of reparations when people have been damaged, people have been exploited. labor has been taken and even land taken and so forth. we see that with the japanese and it was highly appropriate with our jewish brothers and sisters in germany. this issue of truth and justice is very challenging. it is double-edged. it is not just against others but we do have to take some responsibility. host: the green party is on some 15 states, according to their website. on the ballot in 2024 in 15 states. how do you plan to approach this in terms of where you will

campaign, the types of events you will focus on and getting on the ballot in those states where the green party is not yet on the ballot? guest: as you know, these are decisions in real time. we are in the process of access activity. i am a green party participation in the nomination process. that will culminate next summer. we should probably be on a good 48, 49 states. it is a process and that is part of the problem. the two parties make it very difficult for third parties. the libertarian party, the green party. i come from a people that say lift every voice. you have to find your voice and your voice is unique to yours just like your fingerprint.

we have too many echoes in american politics. too many that just reflect and not enough thermostats that shape the opinion, shape the perception and try to teach people how to have respect for fellow citizens and tell them the truth. this is true about foreign policy, domestic policy and it is true about our establishment. host: let's hear from trent on the independent line. monroe, louisiana. caller: brother, cornel. the whole shift of the atmosphere c-span has just shifted since you have come on. you are the yearning hope, you are part of it. i am a conservative hard right christian. i have watched you over and over again blend literature, poetry, theology. there is something inside of you that is a real cry that transcends left and right. here is what i kind of want from

you. this jeffrey epstein, the liberals, the conservatives, the media, nobody will talk about it. when you go deep into that thing, there is the key that unlocks the deeper things that control the country. bless his heart, donald trump was right there with epstein. he looks like he has been doing a lot of bad things with him. they have got that on him. you could relieve that brother of his sins if he be that guy that makes this a part of your presidential campaign. i love you, brother. man, i thank god that one day i will get to see in heaven with you and talk for years and years. guest: my dear brother, i salute you. we are praying for each other. just a matter of trying to be honest about what it means to follow jesus of nazareth. he is crucified.

why did he go in? not because he hated money changers, he hated greed. he had a deep love for the least of these. 25th chapter of matthew going back to hebrew scripture, spreading that lovingkindness. we need that spirit, my brother, translated into our public life. translated into our public -- politics. the love i have for you and the love you have for me because much deeper than politics and political agreement. we have to acknowledge when we do deeply disagree. me and my dear brother traveled the country and we try to talk about this over and over. can we be candid about the underside of our society and access the sunnyside? u.s. foreign policy, can we have

a deep commitment to jewish security and palestinian dignity and acknowledge that the israeli state is occupying. does that make you antisemitic? no, if you make sure you're staying in contact with the jewish brothers ancestors. in terms of the policy is complicated in terms of the moral and spiritual issues. we have to be very honest about that. you cannot get a people out of the republican party or democratic party when there is a massacre of palestinians and no one says a word. that is morally obscene. that is spiritual malnutrition. they are scared, fearful, intimidated. but when you are committed to truth and justice, you are freed.

the truth sets you free. host: question for you on twitter from tony who says, is dr. west aware of the wealth gap over the last 50 years tracks the rise in the national debt? guest: indeed. you can see the national debt has not much to do with the wars. trillions in iraq. over half a million iraqi lives were lost. hardly mentioned. c-span has been willing to talk about it because you have a variety of listeners. an iraqi life has the same value as in american life, lithuanian life, a life in china. that is the notion of what it means to be made in the likeness of god. therefore, we have to be honest about how the national debt is

tied to war and what it means to be critical of war. not because we are pacifist, i have a great respect for quakers and others. i am a christian but i'm not a pacifist. i believe in justice but in very different circumstances. afghanistan, trillions of dollars. iraq, trillions of dollars. ukraine, now over $135 billion and growing. more than likely, you don't know how much money is actually being paid. we have to be sensitive with our ukrainian brothers and sisters but also critical. now, two decades later, 13 former soviet countries are now part of nato with missiles targeted at russia. if russia had missiles in mexico and canada, what were the u.s. government do? probably blow them this leather

reins. -- to smithereens. the wealth of america is greed. the best of america's love, justice and willing to live in the world as a nation among nations. that is the legacy of martin luther king and so many of the others i have mentioned. host: to ken, caller from spokane, washington. caller: good morning. what a privilege to be able to speak with you this morning. i just have a question for you regarding the democratic party's very dark past and its present, and probably the future of the democratic party. i was just wondering why do not all but the majority of black americans continue to vote democrat? i will take my answer offline.

thank you for being on this morning. very good discussion, thank you. guest: thank you, my brother. very important question. as you know, republicans was once the party of lincoln. keep in mind, abe lincoln won on a third-party ticket. black folk were tied to the republican party until the 1930's when the dixiecrats and southern democrats became more dominant -- excuse me, they shifted from the republican to the democrat party. the independent party where is where you had the dixiecrats that became republicans in the 1960's. wallace ran on a ticket where 12.8% of the candidates ran on a wiper -- white supremacist campaign.

unfortunately, both parties do not speak to the needs of black, poor and working people but professional classes. black leadership became tied so much to the black professional group and the black democrats and they turned their backs on lack poor and black working people. you have class issues within the black community. under the democrats, joe biden, the architect of what? mass incarceration. he is the one that stood out there and said we want to make sure we never see them again. brother joe, those are human beings down there. some of them are doing wrong. many of them, nonviolent offenses still going to jail. what happens when wall street has its crimes. predatory lending, fraudulent activity? how many wall street executives

went to jail under obama and eric holder and biden? hardly any. roughly the number of black folks in the national hockey league. it is clear black folks are locked into a democratic party that does not speak to the plight of black poor and working people but the black democrat does very well. even though i myself as a professor could be considered very much part of the middle class, i have a moral commitment first and foremost to poor people and working people of any color, any religion, any sexual orientation. why? because they have been left out. unfortunately, the black leadership breeze black folks -- we have to keep in mind, we have almost 40% of our fellow citizens that don't vote at all. they have given up on the electoral political system.

these are the citizens i will be going at. host: on the georgia next and we will hear from ellis. caller: how are you doing? glad to talk to you. a couple of questions i want you to answer for me. number one, do you think the election was stolen? number two, if you have a stolen document, do you think you would be in jail today? number three, why are you really running when you know you don't have a chance of winning and you have a great thing and i think you are very intelligent. may god bless you. guest: thank you so very much, my brother. we will be praying for each other. i don't think the election was stolen. i don't think our election process is perfect. i think we need to struggle for more election integrity. unfortunately, because of the role of big money.

we don't get high quality candidates because oftentimes you have to have big donors to even run for office. i don't think it was stolen, not at all. host: i think ellis was referring to alluding to the documents that former president trump is now charged with taking, charged by the government with taking documents. i think that is what he is alluding to. guest: i see. i think we need to follow the process to make sure people have a fair trial in the matter who they are. we also know that biden had documents, hillary clinton had documents. too often, politicians get away with it. we have to be committed to a fair trial. the third question as to why i am really running, i have already told you.

this is just the color of truth and justice spilling over. when you run for something, it is not a question of thinking you can win it in the short term. too often in america, we associate the pragmatic with the myopic. it is not just a matter of thinking you see a way out at that immediate moment. i come from a people that make a way out of no way. we don't know what is going to happen in the next 13 or 14 months. we have no idea. when you are trying to be used by something bigger than you, it is not a question of thinking you have the ticket for a utilitarian way. there is something spiritual, immeasurable, invisible in terms of having impact on people that in and of itself is a certain kind of winning. i'm not one to reduce everything to the utilitarian and short-term consequential consequences. not at all.

the reason i am really running is the reason i have been living and breathing and loving and laughing for the last 63 years when i accepted jesus at shiloh baptist church, because it is a calling and i want to be true to that calling and all about love that has been poured into me, to be honest about that love and try to spread it when you can love and truth and speak in the truth. love and beauty means trying to enact something that allows people to see humanity and light of all the ugliness in the world, surrounding yourself to something bigger. so you can be a force for good before you die. that is why i am running. host: let's get one more for you. david is calling from newport news, virginia on the independent line. caller: good morning, dr. west. it is an honor to speak with you, but i am truly an independent because it is without a doubt the two major parties are deeply flawed.

however, the problem i have is that the republican party has become an instrument of fascism. i am really afraid to vote third-party to hand the reins of power over to a deeply flawed and dangerous group. i respect your positions, but i'm very hesitant to support you. how would you respond to my concerns? guest: that is really a very crucial question. it really is. because this is the clash between what i was talking about in terms of utilitarian thinking , counting the numbers, and trying to create something new. fascism is real. fascism is at work in a powerful way in the republican party and can in the

republican party. and it could easily spill over in the democratic party too. don't think the republicans have a monopoly. but certainly trump is worse. but one out of 10 of those voted for bernie sanders. but it is a matter of policy and spirit. but how do you fight fascism? i don't think you can fight fascism. if you are in the democratic party, tied to the same militarism, and you have a caretaker that says i'm not the almighty but i'm all the alternative. this is what joe biden says. to fight fascism, you need a stronger vision, stronger passion and channeling all of the frustrations into a more all

embracing project. right now too often you follow the neofascist pied piper, that is what tribe is. can't just be short-term because the short-term will never get out of the frick and frack and tweedledee tweedledum cycle. because when it comes to militarism and poor people, a whole host of issues, it is taboo. nobody wants to come to terms with it. nobody wants to come to terms with the military budget. in the end we've got to somehow make a break or disruption and it has to be done in such a way that citizens have a spiritual awakening and a moral reckoning of going more radically democrat

and by that i mean allowing the voice of those everyday people, their voices to be heard. the two-party system does not allow the voices of working people to be heard. the politicians are already bought, captive or so deeply tied to big money. host: we will look forward to future campaign invest -- events, cornell west. the green party presidential candidate. thank you for your time and your conversation with our viewers, professor