host: we are going to keep going

with open forum. i want to share this story written on the propublica of a grad student on covered the largest slave sale. she is joining us and is also joined with bernard powers, director for the center for the study of slavery in charlston. welcome to both of you.

let me start with lauren and the headline in this piece, this uncovering of the artist known slave auction in the united states, explain what you were doing and what the project you were working on and how did you make this discovery? guest: is interned during graduate school at the center for slavery and i had been sitting in my room doing newspaper research in the archives at slave traders in charleston during that time period and stumbled across it. i had been doing that job for a few months and happened upon it. host: what did you come upon? guest: the sale of 600 people. i thought it might have been a misprint and i emailed dr. powers and we had a meeting and realized it was real. host: when you saw that number,

the sale of a 600 enslaved people, what was your first reaction? guest: shock but also knowing that these auctions happened in the past and knowing that the biggest time up till that was 426. it was jarring to me. host: professor powers, when you got that call, what was your first reaction? guest: was quite surprised because all along we thought the figure higher historians had uncovered a bit over 400 people was the record. and then to find out that south carolina, charleston in particular was on the much larger sale was really surprising.

but also in keeping with other characteristics that we know about in south carolina, i will mention a couple. charleston was the major center for the sale of africans during transatlantic slave trade and also the city of charleston in this time period when the 600 people were sold, charleston demonstrated a larger level of slaveholding along the might -- among the white families. about three quarters of all of the white families in charleston owned enslaved people during the decade of the 1830's. host: what is the significance of this find? guest: there are a number of significances is regard to the find. one of the things that both lauren and i were struck by was

that there were no stories, narrative stories, in the newspapers about this sale. that suggests how routine the sale of human beings were in the city of charleston and indeed throughout the south. the other thing about this location, and it is that we know the precise spot where the sale occurred. it is adjacent to a building that is known as the old exchange building. when george washington visits charleston in 1791, he is entertained in the old exchange building, where they celebrated america, independence, freedom

and liberty. yet decades later, just adjacent to the same building, 600 people would be sold off. so that connection between slavery and freedom is intimate and organic and this is just one of the most important examples of that connection in american history. host: lorne, have you gone to that spot scribe -- lauren, have you gone to that spot described in that? what do you think was happening? guest: absolutely. that is a very heavily trafficked spot and was the most popular tourist attraction. many walked past the spot every day. being there is a feeling of heaviness and heartbreak.

it is not something to take lightly. there is an historical marker that talked about the slave auctions but it doesn't talk about this one. host: bernard powers, can you describe what you think happened on that day when 600 enslaved people were sold? guest: well, it must have been an area that was very crowded with enslaved people waiting to be auctioned off with white purchasers who would have come from a variety of adjacent states to make their bids. one would have seen enslaved people trying to influence might purchase them, trying to be

purchased by people they deemed to be the most benevolent and humane. they would have been trying to keep their families together. but even so, perhaps many and even most would have failed to remain with family members and would have been sold off individually. he would have heard the screams and wailing of sorrowful black people who were separated from one another forever insofar as they knew at this time. so it would have been a very graphic scene and a very inhumane seen as people were commodified, sold off and separated, never to see the relatives again. host: help of -- with the help

of propublica. what did you learn? guest: winek about an estate where he passed away and they sold 600 people as well as other property from his estate. we learned that 100 of them were bought back and we are learning about their stories and that is the plan for future research. host: can you talk about that, bernard powers? what will you do with the discovery? guest: one of the things we hope to do is give a far greater

voice to stories like this one. think about -- the thing about charleston today is you can walk around the city and not see the evidence the tremendous role the city and its plantar class and merchants played in the trafficking in human beings. the center for the study of slavery in charleston is based on the kind of research that lauren and others have done to identify these important sites and to, where possible, mark them with plaques and to organize them into virtual tours that can be assessable around the world. people were interested in learning more about this subject which helps us to really uncover

and to make public the important role that a place like charleston has played in the institution of slavery and the slave trade in particular. host: what did you make of the connections made by pro publica the role of a and purchasing them? what was happening at this time? guest: it was an interesting story for ann ball, because most white women were not in the direct role that she decided to play as a slave owner and as a manager of enslaved people. she could have easily just simply allowed all of the property to be sold off, human

as well as the land and property to be sold off. that is not the decision she made. she wanted to be directly involved in slave ownership and management which was rather unusual for white women to take on. nevertheless, she was considered to be someone who was a very stringent disciplinarian, one who had the whip used on slaves that she owned very routinely. that story really indicates thar more white women played important roles in the system of slavery, and we need to find out more about that and learn who they were. host: oren, you announced -- lauren, you announce this

discovery in your masters thesis. how did that turn out for you? guest: very well. it was published on proquest and i passed my thesis and got my masters degree so it was a great launching pad and i hope to continue my research for a phd. host: you can find the thesis in the pro-public a article at pro publica.org. bernard powers, tell us the work of the center. guest: the center for the study of slavery in charleston is part of a consortium of universities over 90 strong. the consortium is known as the university studying slavery and we are involved in examining the role, historically, that the institution of slavery has played in our schools. this is one of the final

frontiers yet to be investigated and we not only look at the role of slavery, which ended in 1865 in the u.s., but we understand the institution of slavery had a long legacy that comes all the way down to us in the present time. our work includes the examination of the way in which race helped to shape higher education and the way in which our education was connected to racial issues throughout our various locations. there are seven universities in south carolina that are part of the consortium and we put on public programs and sponsor research that delves deeply into the institution of slavery and the role of race in higher

education and the role of race in our locations, so that people have a greater appreciation for the depth and the legacy that slavery and its consequences have had for the development of america and the present shape of our society today. host: before we let you go, you are also a board member of the international african-american museum which is set to open in charleston later this month. what can you tell us about this? guest: indeed, the public opening for the international african-american museum will be june 27. it is a project we have worked on for over 20 years. it is located on the cooper river early, the site for this museum is the wharf where in the

united states, when congress finally outlawed the atlantic slave trade it ended at this particular place in charleston, and this was the last major center for the transatlantic slave trade in the entire country. south carolina has played an outsized role in the history of race, slavery, the coming of the civil war, and there is a host of consequences that result from the black presence in south carolina. we explore those consequences having to do with slavery, race, emancipation, civil-rights, and we look at the implications

those have for the united states as a whole. wherever possible we look at the international connections that south carolina and race related issues has with not only the state but the nation. host: bernard powers, lauren devila, thank you