in order to be able to deliver a conservative agenda. and the project that is sponsoring project 2025 is another vital. part of building that institutional infrastructure that can actually deliver conservative policies, having what i've seen on both of the atlantic, i think both of those things vital in order for conservative policy to deliver but we can't just deal with the administrative state at a national level. what we've also got is the global administrative state. we have the united nations, the world health organization, we have the cop process. and one of the things i tried to do was stop britain hosting cop in glasgow. i but i want to see us in future abandon that process. the best people to make

decisions are people that a democrat typically elected in sovereign nations. it is not people sitting on international bodies who would divorce from the concerns of the public. the final thing conservative need to do is appeasement and by ending appeasement. i'm talking about the appeasement of woke or ism at home as well as the appeasement of totalitarianism abroad. we have to do both of those things because both of those things are threatening our way of life. totalitarian regimes like china, russia and have to be stood to the only thing they understand is strength. and now the military aid budget has been passed through congress. the needs to be more clarity about russia can be defeated and how china and iran will also be

taken on and in order achieve that we are to need a change in personnel at the white house. now i worked in cabinet whilst donald trump was president and by while president biden was president and i assure you the world felt safer when donald was in office. 2024 is going to be a vital. and it's the reason that i wanted to bring my book now because getting a conservative back in the white house is critical to taking on the global. and i hate to think what life would be like with another four years of a placement of the woke left in the united states, as well as continued weakness on the international stage.

but my final message is that winning in 2025, winning in 2024, and into government in 2025 is not enough. it's not enough just to it's not enough just to have those conservative that there will huge resistance from administrative state and a left in politics is never been more extremist or more virulent. and that is why it will need all the resources of the american conservative movement think tanks like heritage and hopefully your allies in the united kingdom to succeed but you succeed because the free world needs you. thank you. why do you think. got to be that next year wasn't

a good morning everybody thank you very for joining us here at the heritage foundation. i'm nile gardiner, the director of the margaret thatcher center for freedom and, actually delighted to to host this here at heritage. i have to say, you'll book is is an absolute tremendous read. it's a very robust just a conservative book that really does stand up, i think, very forcefully to the left's nefarious agenda. it's also, i think, a very, very gutsy book. and a it's a book that is very courageous in so many respects, taking on the the ruling left wing establishment here in the united as well. and that's that's a very important thing. so i very much enjoyed reading the book. and yes i do plead guilty. i have to say, to be a critic of of the obama administration and

also quite critical at the time of of prime minister david cameron, a of fronts also. so thank you for the much of the book and i'd like to ask a few questions liz on especially on the current political debate here in the united states the outlook for the world superpower and also like to address some big picture foreign policy and national issues and like delve into the the current political situation in the uk as well. and things are looking somewhat challenging. it has to be said for the conservatives. and so i'd like to get your thoughts on on the latest developments, but we're kicking off with a discussion of the track of of joe biden. joe biden, as you noted, sharply

criticized your tax policies while eating an ice cream and it has to be said that his his i think was was unhelpful. it was an attack upon the policies of america's closest friend and ally but not unusual, of course, for a for joe for joe biden. he has a very controversial record when it comes to to dealing with the united kingdom. and your view is what does. the future hold if have four more years of the biden presidency in what does that mean for the world's superpower? what does it mean for american leadership on the world? what does it mean as well for the for the us-uk? a special relationship? well i believe that four more years of joe biden would have, first of all, a negative impact on the us internally.

now we can what is happening in the streets of major cities in the united states we can see what is happening with the promotion of left wing ideology. i talked about title nine and the appalling situation where girls use the locker room or the bathroom at school in privacy, there is the immigration and, the southern border. now we see still no solution to that no policies being pursued to with that. and i understand because we have the same on our border. you know with the english channel and the fact that we're getting these small boats in our problem in britain is to do with the legal system and the fact that supreme court judges have us being able to implement the rwanda policy in the united states. this is a political pursuit that

could be sorted by the president if he wish. so i think four more years of this would be a disaster for the us internally. i think biden biden omics has been a failure all. it's done is increase the debt and put you know, not made the american economy more competitive, which is what we all need to be. i mean, the british economy also needs to be more competitive as well. so i don't want to see that continue we should have those domestic policies, but also, i don't believe, says joe biden, and instead we've seen it cozying up. we've seen american corporations encouraged to seek more investment from china. i think that the wrong approach, i can't imagine during cold war when reagan out the ussr as the evil empire that type of approach being taken. so i think new a new approach is

needed. and as for the special i mean, the there will not be a us-uk trade deal. joe biden, that is absolutely clear and i know president trump wanted to do a trade deal. the problem lay in britain so we need to fix that side as well. to follow up on your your remarks there with regard to the the huge crisis on america's southern border it's become number one political issue. i think in the forthcoming presidential election and roughly think 10 million illegal migrants have crossed the united states at a staggering figures and. if you have the situation in europe would probably bring down the government such as the that the of outrage over the massive of legal migration. do you believe that under strong conservative leadership that

this can be effectively addressed here in the united states and in your view, why is joe biden so, so weak kneed in the face of this, in the face of this crisis? so, yes, yes, it can be addressed. and yes, it was addressed under donald trump. so absolutely it can be addressed. likewise, our problem in britain can be fixed if we deal with issues like. the european court of convention of human rights, if we deal with the human rights act in, britain. but why have these problems emerged in both of our countries? the answer is that the human rights lobby has not been taken on, and if you look at what's happened in the legal profession, you look at what's happened in in sort of i've talked about the dinner party circles earlier, but if you look at dinner parties, circles, people don't want to seem they would be accused of being racist

they would be seen as being cruel to migrants. and that has that emotive attitude has informed the policy rather than the morality and is the the are hugely out of touch with what the average voter thinks on these issues that that is what is on you've got an elite who are affected by it don't care don't have their being suppressed by high levels of migration and have a population that are very, very concerned about the issue. and in my constituency of norfolk is the one issue that comes up on the doorstep is immigration. and from what you've seen of donald trump and his record in the first term of it's administration, do you think that a second trump presidency effectively deal with the

migration crisis here in the united states? do you see the potential a very strong leadership in dealing with what is an immense challenge for for the us if us is not willing to deal with the massive levels of illegal migration, this will fundamentally undermine the united states for decades to come. so do you think that donald trump really has the leadership drive, determination to be able to effectively deal with the immigration crisis here? i do. i do think so. it is clearly a very difficult issue. and we now have our enemies actively using migration as a way of pursuing their threat. and so russia has used this with salaries into poland. yet we're seeing things like social media. i mean, it's easier to communicate. it's easier to run a people trafficking operation. but all of these things i mean,

these things have to be solvable. they otherwise, if you cannot control your borders how will you a sovereign nation. exactly. exactly. what would a a. second trump presidency mean for for the united kingdom and what are the implications for the special relationship, especially bearing in mind that joe biden been viewed by many in the uk as quite possibly the most anti british president of the all the modern era. what's your assessment of each of the impact of a second trump presidency on relations with, the united kingdom? i mean, the most important thing for me about the second trump presidency is getting conservative leadership. back in the world. the subtitle of my british edition is called the anti conservative if in the room because it's 80. britain that has a conservative government. we've got biden in, the us, we

have trudeau in we have macron in france have schultz in germany. and it's not working. the west is not winning. and so for me the the fact it's conservative leadership is absolutely important i think we are more likely to see a trade deal taking place. i think there will be more working with one of the things i advocate the book is an economic nato where together we take on china, we take russia by having common on what technology they should be able to invest or export or all of that in the same way as we did during during the cold war. so i would like, you know, i would like to see closer working with allies and of course, has been very critical of of the nato alliance and an

unwillingness among some nato allies invest what they need to do on defense and do you think that trump will shake up europe again potentially with with a second, second term and will will europe be be listening to to his message after all? these are incredibly dangerous times, with russia potentially threatening nato territory in the us too in the years to come? will will the european be waking up to to the reality and what would be impact of a of another trump to the europe needs to spend more on defense. there are still far too many european countries are even spending the 80% and the 80% is not enough. we should be raising it to at least 3%, in my view as a minimum. and there are too many countries free riding at the moment who

are in serious threat. if putin succeeds in ukraine, he won't stop there. he will move. he will move further and this is the ultimate short termism of europe has spent more and more money on our welfare states and less and less money relatively speaking, on things like defense and policing, which are very important for the security of our countries. and, you know, i think trump is right to. say to europe, you need to pay up. in a recent interview, he said, i 100% committed to nato but european countries need to pay up. that is right. i make the further point. of course that. if putin were to succeed in ukraine, that would send the most terrible message to china and president xi. so if we if these totalitarian regimes are successful, it will have huge, huge for the united

as well as for europe. yes, absolutely. and talking of totality, korean regimes, the enemies of the free world, the iranian regime, of course, poses a. deadly threat in the east, but also to europe as well and potentially the entire free world, it becomes a nuclear weapons power. israel responded recently to the iranian attack on israel. which 40 did not. the iranians not succeed in in any advance, any of strategic advantage there. the message coming from both london, washington and also many european capitals, one of restraint towards israel. the term use is the israeli response be should be limited. joe biden has been in many ways more critical of the netanyahu

government in israel than it has been of the iranian regime and which we view here at heritage is absolutely a disgraceful and at the same time the the british government has echoed a lot of the language that the biden administration has been using towards towards israel. what was your view of this what what does israel need to do in order to defend itself and to stand up to to the iranian regime and what does the west need to do in order to to to stand up to to iran and send a clear message that the free world will not accept the kind of barbarism that we're seeing right now from the world's biggest states of terror. one of this. one of the things i talk about in the book is i would often find foreign office trying to change the text, my speeches and

i suspected it was confirmed that it was after calls from the state department. so there's a certain amount of coordination between official in both the united kingdom, the united states. so it's no surprise the same message is emerging. the state taking the sanctions, iran, and hoping that iran would sign a nuclear deal was a mistake. and it's been left for too long without action against iran. and this is this is essentially appeasement. and what it's resulted in is further bloodshed in the middle east, most in israel. and i, i don't see how when israeli are still being held that people can expect israel to behave in any way apart from defending their national interest and i, i think it is a

it's important that israeli given the freedom that they need to they need to do what they need to do to protect nation and they are on the axis and dual threat. we know that iran would love to see the end of. yes. without any without any doubt. and we're dealing with a genocidal regime that is explicitly said that the goal is to wipe israel the map and we have to take those threats extremely seriously. but i think all of these cases and the same is true of putin in russia, we are not dealing with some rational actors that can be comparable, mobilized with or you can achieve a deal with these people want to it and our way of life in the west that's what we have to understand. and the only thing that will stop them, that is by us strength in the face of the absolutely. and it's your message today to.

both the biden administration and also to the british government that the western powers should completely consign the the iran nuclear deal the joint comprehensive of action jcpoa to history. yes. yes. i mean, i don't i don't think we should have tried to do it in the first place. i was very much under instructions. foreign secretary from boris johnson to to proceed it. but clearly the iranians had no intention signing it. yes. and also the other signatories were china and russia. right. which does not fill me with hope. yes. yeah, probably one of the one of the worst agreements put together in modern history, i would have thought and we were certainly supportive of president trump's decision to withdraw from the jcpoa, which viewed as a fundamentally dangerous act of appeasement

towards towards iran and on the the home front in the uk, you've seen large scale by pro-palestine indian groups. i frankly, many of these protesters have been even supportive of hamas. and you've seen numerous individuals supporting not only hamas but also an array of islamist terrorist organizations central. london has become become in the eyes of many as as de fact a no go zone actually for many jewish persons who feel afraid to go into london because of these these menacing, frequently violent protests. a great deal of criticism course of the metropolitan police handling of the protest. also a criticism of the way in which the government has has

responded is not being tough enough. after all, is a conservative government. it is it is seen by many in the as far too weak in terms of dealing with the protests. in fact, the french german governments have been significantly tougher in how they've addressed these these in some cases banning outright marches by pro-palestinian, pro-hamas groups. but the british government's approach been has been very, very light in encounter. what's your view on what needs to be done with with the situation on the ground there? after all, you do have an environment where many jewish britains feel afraid to walk the streets lot of the weekend during these these protests. and it's been appalling every saturday, these protests are dominating central london. and jewish people cannot work

freely around central london. and that is that should not be allowed. that should not be allowed. and we also had the scene where. there were messages being projected onto the house of commons. and i think the is not right the approach is not right to policing these protests and and you said that we are not as tough as the french or the germans the same is true on environmental protesters. well. and dealing just stop oil. i mean you're the easier to count the number days there isn't a protest going on in parliament square in london than the number of days and just want to sort of say people in this audience this in no way a reflection of the british public if i speak to constituents, they are 100% supportive of israel. they are not. it's a small minority of extreme left wing activists who are

promoting this. it is not a reflection of the general public of britain, but the tail is wagging the dog and it's back. the point i was making about institutions, i think what is the difference in britain and france and germany i think are institutions are less accountable than institutions are in. the countries i think i've talked about the very limited number of political appointments we get. i've talked about the number of there's 500 of these unelected bodies and so it is actually very difficult in the current circumstances the government to effectively change the policy and politicians never to admit they're impotent, to do something. but i think we have to look at the overall system and structure and say, how are we going to restore proper democratic accountability? these types of things keep happening. yes, yes and on the on uk front,

we're likely to see a general election later this year. it has to be held by january 25. but most likely election, say in november. the polls are pointing to the possibility of a of a labor victory, put very politely. yes, yes. these are, of course, immensely challenging times. and perhaps we could see, you know, rishi sunak writing memoirs at some stage in the near future. but whether you have a far more far, far more conservative and interesting say and, but on the election front in the uk, labor's been out of power for 14 years, they haven't outline much of an agenda as as i can like i can tell and it's hard to say keir starmer actually really stands for anything.

and although he's very quick to to take take the knee and to you know bow down and surrender to the to the work the work left and. this from your perspective, just how dangerous. potentially is a is a labor government actually for for britain and for british leadership in in the world. but you say we don't know what keir starmer stands for. i think we do know what he's done. but when i'm talking about the human rights culture, the developed in britain, things like the development of the human rights act, which blair put in the constitution, reformed i believe keir starmer was one of the people who was backing those changes. he he is a classic left wing liberal lawyer and a lot of the you said late labor have not been in power.

well, might not have been in power in the government. yeah but they've been in power in a lot of british institutions for the last, the last number of years. blair made these huge constitutional changes which outsourced decision making from democratically elected, actually gave more power to to a lot lawyers and bureaucrat, etc., etc. so i think we have more of that now, whether it's the extreme gender or gender ideology, whether it's the immigration and rights policies, extreme green policies know i can't see things like fracking happening under keir starmer or energy bills getting cheaper and the economy is in a serious situation we have got a debt problem in britain and although the labor

party talks about economic growth. they've got absolutely no analysis why we haven't had significant economic growth for the past few decades and. the answer is we're overtaxed, we're overregulated. the government's too big and we're still aligned with even though we've left it. these are the answers. but i can't see labor anything about any of those things. if they if they get into office. say we will just see the increase in an increase in the the sort of decline ism narrative in britain. yeah, it sounds actually ghastly actually. and it is. i mean, yeah, i want conservatives win in britain. i think the way we we can win is by laying out a conservative agenda and being honest about why we haven't delivered enough

it in the last 14 years. that's what we have to do, we have to say, yes, we should have dealt with the climate change act from tony blair, we should have dealt with the equality act which embedded all these woke policies, dual corporations, institution we put our hand up, but please don't vote for keir starmer. things will get a lot worse. that that's we've got to say and what would your message the prime minister today be that the uk should immediately withdraw from european convention on human. yes, yes, yes but. but that's not enough. yeah, it's not enough. and we should learn the lesson. what happened when we left the european, but kept all the european laws on our statute books? yeah. the problem is, we got rid of the bureaucracy in brussels. we didn't get rid the bureaucracy in britain. so yeah, it had a lot of our problems lie at home. yeah. and they lie with fact that we've