and everyone and to the white

house historical association, asian. this evening we have next episode in white house history with margaret brennan, our wonderful emcee for this evening, who is leading this year's series of this annual program that we've done now for

quite a number of years. many of you came to the episodes that we did a few years ago when ann compton, our great friend, had the role that margaret is fulfilling. evening, and it's great to have you back us and and as as margaret who will be joined this evening. the honorable capricia marshall and the honorable joe hagan for a very interesting and insightful conversation on the president. the president travels abroad. they will all be introduced in more detail shortly. but i wanted welcome you. my name is stewart mclaurin and the president of the white house historical association. and it's my honor on of our board of directors represented tonight by our former chairman, fred ryan, who is here and, members of our national council on. white house history here with us tonight as well as our next gen leaders program. so we have an array of friends and supporters that are with us. we have friends joining us live stream at the moment on facebook and youtube and, also through

c-span. well, many of you know us and support us, and we're so grateful for that. for those of you who may not know as well, i will simply share. we are a 63 year old organization founded in 1961 by first lady jacqueline kennedy, who in charge us with the nonprofit, nonpartisan mission of maintaining the interiors. the white house at a museum. so when you visit today, you see it at the best of america and it's our honor and our privilege to do that with non-taxpayer funding. and we've done so for 63 years. she also charged with an education mission to teach the stories and tell the stories of the white house and its history. going back to 1792 when george washington selected that plot of land at which the white sits today. programs like this are part of our education mission as as our

teacher institute, which will draw teachers from across the nation into this room in two weeks time. our wonderful publications which are familiar with and so many other programs the most of which is underway right now and will open in september. at 1700 pennsylvania avenue. it will be called the people's house, a white house experience, 33,000 square feet of digital interactive education space to unpack the white house as an office to the president and his staff home to the president and his family, ceremonial stage upon which our nation welcomes our most important visitors and a museum that americans by the to to tune of about half a million a year have the opportunity to visit couldn't be more excited about that to learn more about that program go to our web site white house history course or the brand new website house talk and join us after

september when that site will open to the public free of charge. all you have to do is register. thank you all for being with us here tonight. and now i'd like to introduce great colleague, dr. matthew costello, who gives leadership to our david m. rubenstein national center for white house history and is our chief officer. dr. costello. thank stuart. welcome, everyone, to the historic house, white house history with margaret brennan is our fifth iteration of a series. a prominent moderator discussing key topics and moments with distinguished panelists around a specific theme. now this year's theme is diplomacy the white house. and today, our second conversation on the president abroad. we'll explore the ins and outs of presidential travel how government agencies and departments work to coordinate plan diplomatic events, meetings and summits, and the important role that the press in covering and detailing these.

now allow me to introduce panelists, a moderator for this evening's program, and please hold your applause until end. capricia marshall is partner at afg's global offering international affairs and geopolitical consultation services and president global engagement strategies, llc marshall is currently ambassador residence at the atlantic council and the author of protocol the power of diplomacy and how to make it work for you. she previously served as white social secretary in the clinton administration and as the united states chief of protocol. the obama administration. joe hagan is a senior executive with decades of management business experience at the highest levels of government and business. during his years at the white house, mr. hagan served presidents and is one of the longest serving white house political aides in recent history. as deputy chief of staff, hagan managed the infrastructure around the president of united states, including administrative, technological security and military support. he also managed the day to day operations of the white and other presidential facilities.

well, as the president's schedule and operations. mr. hagan is currently executive vice president lg corporation, and he is a native lexington, kentucky and grew up in cincinnati, ohio. our moderator for this evening and for the series, of course, is the one and the only, margaret brennan, she is moderator of face the nation with margaret brennan on cbs. she is also the network's chief foreign affairs correspond and based in washington, d.c. she became the moderator face the nation in 2018 and has developed a reputation for asking tough questions. she has interviewed world leaders, including presidents biden, donald trump, vice presidents kamala harris and mike pence, uk prime minister boris johnson and french president emmanuel have been interviewed on the program along with republican and democratic leaders. please join me in welcoming our panel. thank you for that introduction

and to all of you for joining us here today. i always love speaking to people and have them be able to look back and not just in a tv studio. and this is a great for a conversation, i think will be a fun one. a lively one tonight. and as i mentioned, the last time i was here at the historical association, i always feel good when i'm in this building, this is the building where i got married to my husband, who's right here in the front row. i'm married at the decatur house. i love this place. it's beautiful. so we're glad you're here to talk about history tonight. and to to enjoy this conversation that you all can participate in as we move forward. i know there will be a moved throughout the room when we get closer to 630 and you'll be able to raise you can ask anything as an old editor told me, just ask in a respectful way. and so i want to talk to our two guests here about all the history they have seen and are

definitely professor panels who will not tell us any instance in which their boss made a misstep or something went horribly wrong. but you've seen it all truly and worked for some very fascinating and interesting people, and it occurs to me as we talk about the president abroad, that actually the first bit of presidential travel we should probably talk about is what happens on a debate stage and the trip to atlanta tomorrow. you both have worked with candidates preparing for a debate. and i wonder if two of you have have advice or what you will be looking for tomorrow. ambassador marshall well, i dare say joe has worked with quite a few more presidents than i. but i have had an opportunity for candidates that have won and candidates regrettably i've lost not the debate but the overall election and to participate them

is is really a experience tonight there are with a very small group of people and they are having sort of a little of last minute discussion on refining some of those those points. they want to make sure that they're they need to make, but they're getting some good rest and they're just sort of relaxing, probably having a good meal and and getting getting ginned up for the next day. so it's to be exciting. i'll be watching every of it, as will many political junkies in. this town. joe hagan, you worked for bush 41 for 43 and for donald trump. you know trump pretty well. but is this going to be like i think he's probably one of the most relaxed candidates going a debate that ever has been he he doesn't tend to get uptight and we were talking here i was

working for vice president george when he was debating geraldine ferraro, first female candidate for major national office and his dozens and dozens of friends from around the country spent the week before the debate calling and him exactly the opposite advice from the last person who called you got to really go after. you've to treat her really, really, really kindly. you got to take it easy on her. you got hit her. you got it? yeah. maybe it's just nerve racking. and the other thing i would tell if you're running from if you're running for president, united states, you're pretty in your abilities and it tends to be the staff both both political and or white house. and in political staff who are who are nervous wreck. i used to not be able to watch i would go outside listen to and watch a replay so it is it is quite a quite a tough scene regardless of what side you're

on. oh back to to presidential travel abroad. ambassador marshall, i know you have been part of the had a front seat to so many historic moments. how much do you think things like the atmospherics, the setting the the place that the conversation is happening contribute the success of an actual negotiation? oh, i think quite a bit. margaret the setting can and oftentimes we were very deliberate. and what we selected because there may be a discussion a negotiation that the president and we were pre briefed by the nsc wanted to have with his counterpart. that was tense perhaps he wanted to draw that person into the conversation more perhaps they wanted to make them feel.

so i would deliberately seek out a small room and i would deliberately find then a table that was narrow and so that they were closer to one another because the presidents would sit from one another in the center position, when you're sitting at the bilateral table. i wanted we were deliberately creating an atmosphere that still welcoming because we would have some greenery on the table. you didn't want anything that was, you know, flowers on the table. you don't want that's going to have a scent. you wanted to have in case they have allergies and also to be distracting. but you can with a lower ceiling height, a smaller the secret service blackout the windows it can feel confining these two leaders and i particularly remember the visit with president obama and president putin and we were at a g20 and this is the first time that president obama was meeting with president putin and they were

certainly not seeing eye to eye with one another on at this time. we wanted to pull him a little bit closer on a few issues and so we set about the the proper room. i did find that small and and set it up accordingly. and then president putin arrived. and this is a little bit of mindset to diplomacy. he deliberately arrived 25 minutes late because wanted to say, i'll get there when i get there. and he loves doing that. he does like doing that. and so president obama is looking at his watch is like horatio going on. and my counterpart was this young man. it was very new to job and he was very nervous. i kept asking, where is he? he said, i have no idea. i don't know. i don't know. well, they finally arrive and i escort them and we learned in advance that president putin did not want to see hillary clinton. this table did not want to see the secretary state at this

table. and which is like that's just not going to happen. this is 2012. this was and because she had perhaps said a few things about his election that perhaps he didn't quite like. so i escort as is my visit, my job escort president putin to the meeting to make the introductions to president obama. president obama was standing deliberately front of secretary clinton. he did a little bit of mind set diplomacy himself. and he says, hello, mr. president, there was a nice greeting. and he said, oh, have you met my secretary of state? and like unveils secretary clinton. and you just saw that hint for just a few seconds where president putin was like, oh, i was not expecting to see her. i did not see her upon arrival. and then, of course, she is she is there. but they did go in to my well room. that was very tight, confining and a little bit dark. we had some up lighting and they

came out and they actually did move a bit closer to one another's positions. some key points that they needed to to discuss in that meeting. so, yes, place can really matter to you. you've planned so many of these meetings for very different personalities. i'm going to keep underscoring how different bush and were as presidents to plan for how do i mean i'm just desperate to ask you about the kim jong un. well, how you plan that the historic the first meeting between the president, the united states and this very young autocrat in this hermit kingdom who didn't even leave north korea. and you've got a plan for him, a summit right? well, there definitely used a lot of skills, developed over a very long time. we saw we saw just about saw and

heard just about everything. the first time i went to singapore, which is well, actually, i had gone to i'd gone to north korea, had gone to pyongyang, was secretary to get the hostages. and that was of the exchanges that if we get the hostages. mr. hagan, we'll talk to you about having a summit meeting. and they were desperate to have summit meeting and. was that your first time in north korea? that was my first time in north korea. and we had a and it was really quite amazing. 15 courses with with wine and, you know, it was really hard to eat given, you know, you look out the window at what was happening but it was they were gracious and, ultimately very helpful the there was took a long time to break the ice. the first time i went to meet them in singapore they never

showed up. and it's not like hopping on the shuttle and go back to new york. it was, you know, very trip and president trump was not happy and announced that summit was off and then they came came back and said, oh, no, no, we're, you know, our our bed. so flew back to you the next week. i flew back to singapore and met with them and the three days they would basically not look me in the eye or speak, they just sort of sat in the meeting and and this was kim jong un's chief of staff. and slowly slowly we wore down and they expecting us to try to dictate all the terms. so i was very solicitous and said, you know, we have some ideas, but i'm sure you have ideas which they didn't. and so slowly we started, we built and and by end the day of the summit the chief of staff came up and gave me a big hug.

i'm almost fainted. but it was i mean, again, diplomacy, it was like the ultimate example of you know how to to how to treat people. and my view on this, you know, from the white house staff perspective and, this is this holds true in a lot of these. our responsibility is to put on a good a good show, a good for our for our heads of state and, you know, when you start -- for tat games and and, you know, going back on your that erodes that that potential and you know what i told them was i want this to be something that both sides are proud of. i want it to be safe and secure and, you know, we do the best we can for our for our leaders. and by the end. we really did have their trust and. you know, no agreement came to pass. but you know from the summit from the summit, we were everybody was was prepared for that. we had talked, you know,

president reagan at reykjavik. and ultimately walking away without doing a deal. you know, president trump definitely wanted to do a deal, but he he you know, he he was willing to back away and not not do a bad deal. so it was it was quite an experience. but in the end i think it was, you know, it was well worthwhile with, you know, many administrations have tried everything under the sun to get them to come to the table. and i think it it was worth a try. and then ultimately, after i'd gone to the second summit in vietnam and again, i was at that one and he again walked away. so but yeah, it was it was a lot of a lot of handicraft work there trying to you know to make it make it look right and as i said, be safe and secure and singapore was a great place to do it because the you know, we neither side was was or demonstrated and as you were talking earlier, the site is

incredibly important. if you if you have any say in that because, you know, you can spend months planning something like this and spend, you know, tens of millions of dollars executing it and if it's if there are massive demonstrations with lots of destruction, then, you know, you saw that in the gates early in the administration. you know, we would go to summits. we'd be sitting in the hotel wiping tear gas out of our eyes because the crowds got out, got out of control, and then the media will talk about. not not what you want them to talk about, not the deliverables on the summit, but what a disaster. the summit has been. so it's it's really really important how you organize it from the very start. and mr. marshall was talking about trying get in vladimir putin's head a little bit. how did you try to get in kim jong un's head? did you even.

no, we really didn't. we didn't try. again mean nobody really knew what to expect. right. and you i think the chemistry turned out to be far than we expected, you know, treated each other with respect and, you know, again, our role was to try, you know, to set set the stage something positive to happen after all these years of failure in terms of of dealing dealing with north korea and, you know, i think i think we certainly did that and, you know, unfortunately nothing came of it but. but you're not responsible for that the nuclear development program. no and no. but ambassador marshall, you know, you were in your book that you wrote about your time serving in these roles. you did highlight a few

incidents where there were matters of protocol and procedure that went a little bit and you worried desperately about them. i think you have to be wired a certain way for this job, right? you do you do. and i, i was very i was very lucky. i had worked in a previous administration. i'd worked in the clinton administration, as you know, as was noted by stuart. and thank you for the lovely introduction as the social secretary. so i got to see quite a bit in advance and knew the expectations of of the job and worked with an amazing team, a blend of career officers, foreign service and political and, and we worked very, very hard. four seven at the state department to execute the foreign policy goals of the president and the secretary of state. but on occasion, things didn't

go quite to plan. there was one under general assembly that. i fondly maybe at that was stress filled. we not only had the un general assembly and that really is a diplomatic gantlet that happens every september in new and there's lots of bilateral meetings, multilateral meetings. the presidents back to back to back were not only managing the president's schedule, were managing, the deputies were managing, the secretary states were. it's just and it's everything all at once. and but this in this particular, unga, the president decided to lop on a summit as well the asean summit and so and that meant all these leaders were coming and we had to create a summit at the waldorf and we were working just around the clock and we made one fatal error was that we delegated the

of hosting flag and people would say that doesn't seem like a very difficult but flags are a symbol of country very important in diplomacy and they must be posted appropriately of we delegated that someone else to do because we were so inundated with so work and came game and we have all of the leaders backstage and on lining them up in their presidents order with the president there and making sure that everything is well attended to. the room looked beautiful. all media is prepared. q the music and they're now escorted out. my head goes to the next event. what do i have to do next? i turn around and i start thinking about things and suddenly one of the women who with whom i work comes flying down the hallway and she's usually cool as a cucumber very composed and approached me, she says, we have a huge problem. and i said, what is happening? and she said, social is blowing up. i said, what?

what did we do? what happened? and she said, flag of the philippines has hung inappropriately. not only was it hung upside down, but it was also inverted, which meant that the philippines at war and so social media going completely bonkers it so i took a pause took, a big deep breath and thought okay first and foremost, apologize. now, first and foremost, fix the flag. so we sent the team out. they pulled the flag. fixed the flag. next, make your apologies immediately. so i found the ambassador, i immediately made my personal apologies and said i think this is going to be okay. then we had to put out a statement we put the statement on. meanwhile, the president carrying on his summit has. no idea that any of this is happening. and then i knew who knew next needed to apologize to the president himself and so they finished with the plenary session they return off stage

and you know at events how they have sort of the the blue sort of folded myself into the blue curtain. it was kind of peeking like as you see me here, maybe i can just whisper the apology and even though i was wearing relatively high heels at the time, the president still towered over me because president obama was super, super tall. he was super kind and super cool. i came i went up to him and i said, mr. president, and i him what had happened. and unbeknownst me, he was about to ask president of the philippines for favor. so they were going to have pull aside after. so i just like, oh, great, this is just super. so i knew that this was a firable offense, but i told him exactly what what we did to fix it. and he looked down at me, didn't a smile. he just said, so we're fixed. and i said, yes. and he said, will it happen again? i said, no, sir. yes. all right. let's keep going. a busy day. it's like you're.

but then i knew i had my crew, like the entire protocol office, every one was feeling like me. let the president down. everyone was feeling that. and yet we had so much going on and so i had to boogie them, get them back up and say, we can keep on going. there may been a little red wine that night and and just, you know, to persevere onto the next onto the next mission. but these things these things happen and i will say, if i might make another here, margaret and it's so nerve wracking to be onstage with margaret brennan, you know, like i watch your every sunday and i'm like, oh, my mom's going to watch and say, well, why did you do this? and why did you like all this? her so much? but there was one very, very public oopsie doodle of mine that you'll see some slides going through on the slide here. this was for president calderon of, mexico. i, i am half i am first

generation american and i'm half mexican and half croatian. so when president calderon came for a state, my family so excited. oh my gosh, everybody's watching it in cleveland, ohio, my job is a state dinner. at the dinner portion of it, i escort the president, the first lady out the north portico and then i take position to their left and await the arrival of the motorcade. and then i descend the stairs. i'm to descend the stairs and, greet the president and escort him up the steps and make introductions again. even though they've been introduced about 20 times by this point. so i'm making my way through in my pink gown, my very high, thin stiletto heels, and i make my over to the left and my heel got stuck in a divot in the marble. and down i went, i jumped to the first up sort of holding my core in like, oh, i do a little p90x and.

i got back up, i bounced back up. the president is the only one who reaches for me. the secret service, the military like bo. don't want to be heard. i was mad. mrs. obama's like, don't take that picture. meanwhile, i'm blinded the flash my and also i thought it was just get up just get up and i looked up into the rafters of the press corps and i saw the young man who for me in the press office and he's like, i so i was like, keep going. just carry on, carry on with the job. and so i held on to my shoes. i made my way down, greeted, made my way back up. and president calderon had no idea what just went on. so we make our way back into the white house and. the president looks at me and goes, are you okay? and i just like i think i think so. flash forward to the next visit very quickly. sorry. i is this is hysterical. president obama is so doggone funny, so we're going to have the next day visit with president lee. and again, walking out, i was thinking maybe i should wear tennis shoes. you know, that would be kind of funny. nope, nope. i will not be overtaken by my

shoes. so i didn't wear stilettos i just wear decent heels, made my way out the front door. and the president up in north portico, the president is in my hair right here. and he goes, will she stay up or? will she go down? and mrs. obama, like barack, leave her? i was like, why did he do that? but i stayed up. i stayed up and you can google it. capricia marshall fall. it'll bring you a good chuckle. you were very elegant and and the up and the joke. you've also planned of these trips that were extremely high stake. and i'm thinking about a story you shared about planning president bush's thanksgiving trip in 2003 to iraq. this was, i think the first visit by a president to a war zone. it was the first in a long, long time. yeah. president lincoln went to

richmond. president johnson went to vietnam at one point. but there have not been many presidential trips to two war zones and we actually ended up going to iraq four times and two afghanistan three times. and the secret service did not want you to go. no, they did not. that was that was an interesting day that i got. tell the director, i asked the director of the secret service and then the the head and the deputy head of the president detail to to meet me in the white and it was an conversation and i was like, look, he's he's going to go and, you know, we won't do really stupid but but know we have to we have to do it and anyway. yes so was that's that's when my hair fell out. so we were flying to japan in

october of. 2000, 2003 and the notes of 2003 and we had been in the air for a couple of hours and andy card, who was the chief of staff at the time, came up to me in i was sitting in the conference room on air force one, and he walked into the room and i was in there by myself. and he turned around and he closed the doors, which was very unusual. and he came over and he said, the president wants to go to baghdad and you need tell us if we can do it. and. so the rest of that trip to japan, a whole lot of fun because i started thinking about how we would do and how we could and only way they could do it would have been covertly, which is what we ended up doing. but sneaking into the white is hard for anyone. sneaking the president out of the white house is even harder.

and so we went through all sorts of scenarios and i, i mean, the only way to keep secret in is to not tell anybody. so for a while it was there were just five of us in the white house. i knew he was going chief of staff, the national security adviser, deputy national security adviser, mrs. bush and the president and and i was prepared to say, you know, it's we can't do it the more more planned. the first person i talked to is the commander of air force one because they had to figure out, you know, could we get in safely. so anyway, that's it's a very long story. but we you ended up taking reporters with you. we took reporters with us. i mean, it was obviously going to be very historic. we decided to do it on thanksgiving because we were going to be at the president's ranch down in crawford, texas. and there being a being a big

holiday, there would be less attention being paid to us and there was a cover story, though, there there were some false statements issued by the white house that were not so well, including his dinner. and he gave the dinner menu. and we put the president in a in a ford explorer unarmored, no lights and sirens and. he he drove the airport and we would if we were down in texas. i mean, this happens today. same way if the president's going to be somewhere for some time, we would frequently do maintenance on the the big planes on the 747. so it not unusual for the 747 to leave while the president was down for a long time and you know cover story because just felt that you know it would it would be too risky if it was if

it was public and we we made a deal or i made a deal with the secret service that if it leaked that we were gone, that we were on our way to iraq, we would turn around or we would go to a divert field, refuel and come home again. we would not land if if the bad guys knew we were coming and about two weeks, three weeks before we did this, a fedex plane got hit, a surface to air missile blue, blue and engine of the wing and which which was was slightly concerning to to all of us. but, you know, we had the president we all had great, great in the air force one crew who were just extraordinarily professional. you actually flew air force one. you didn't change. we actually flew air force one. we had a big debate about it. there was. there was because typically you change planes like when i. well i mean, all of all of all of the trips that took to iraq and afghanistan and we ended up

going on the 747. that's a very big target. that is a very big target. the alternative was a c-17 military transport plane, the belly of which got some armor on it. but in the end, we we figured we figured 747 was safer and and so we we sent a very tiny advance team to iraq i think there were three secret service agents, one staff advance guy and a couple of communicate hours. and they actually funny they they went under the cover of cia general's office. and as you know nobody wants to nobody wants to deal with an inspector general and and then we slowly read more people in into the and we took very few staff and the the press. it's interesting margaret you

all know this well. the you know, during the holiday, you're getting like fourth string for the most part, like fourth string reporters that which i probably shouldn't say that, but you you don't have the normal you don't have the normal. white house beat reporters like the chief white house correspondents. and so we tried to work out a way where we could we could get some of those folks without our hand. and the president was very concerned about the press leaking it. and my is we only we only told people who were going be on that airplane and safety was as important to them as the president's safety was. and i didn't think they would i didn't they would leak it. plus, they were going to get one of the great stories of of, you know, that era. and so we air force one couldn't fly nonstop. crawford to baghdad. so we landed at andrews, the the base commander at andrews didn't know the president was on that plane. we taxied to the hangar.

they hooked a tug up, told us he got off the plane went on the second plane, identical plane tug, pushed us and off we went. and when we did that interchange, a few additional got on andy card, who was the chief of staff, was not down in texas, got on the plane. dan bartlett, who was the communique director, and then some more senior reporters who were here in dc, got on. we had a full we had a full press pool and took everybody's cell phones. we had timed it so we would land right after right after what they call true. and on and the day happened, be kind of misty and and, you know, people people on the ground. we had a lot of special guys. who were you covering the trip, not knowing who was coming either, but they could they

pulled later. they could hear the plane land, but they couldn't the plane. and all of a sudden, the big, beautiful blue and white plane comes out of the mist. and they were i can't repeat on television what some of the some of the comments were, but it was a pretty extraordinary. and then taking off was probably the most wracking because you know there's engines pointing at the ground and even though the plane is pretty well equipped to protect itself it was and we had to get we thought to about 15,000 feet to be out of harm's. and there was an altimeter in the staff area and everybody looking at that or i'm sorry, it was a clock and knew it was going to take about six or 7 minutes. yeah, everybody and all the lights are out, all the shades are pulled, the pulled the circuit breakers on, the lights so nobody could inadvertently turn a light on all the navigation lights were out on the plane and it was a very long 6 minutes as we as we rose up

out of out of baghdad and then when we got out of we had fighter support at that point. and then when we got out of iraqi airspace, we were we'd let the press call the bureaus, which were incredulous. i think it was a was ap, i think. but we let them use staff phones on air force one. and i remember walking by as he was going, no i'd darn it, i'm telling you we just left baghdad. people couldn't believe it. yeah, yeah. i called my parents and figuring they'd be a mess and they said oh happy thanksgiving and you're not watching television. so yeah. yeah it was quite amazing. but it only worked because of this just extraordinary group of that support. the president, any president any party, year in and year out, secret service, white house military office. yeah, i counted once they're about 20. we do a big overseas trip. they're literally about.

25 government organizations who make that possible. and thousands, thousands of people and so yeah it was it was it was quite adventure it's quite a boon to a two in economy to i mean you go in and they over an entire hotel when you're not in baghdad you take over an entire hotel lock it down surrounding it. i mean, you know, the rental cars, rooms, i mean, most, most presidential trips on average. i mean, some. and president bush, both 41 and 43, were both. i mean, they would literally look at the list how many people were going. but it not unusual for a white house trip overseas when you would go into a city, you would take thousand rooms, hotel rooms. well, in addition to the president and executive office staff, they will have secretaries, secretaries that will accompany well, who are important the mission. and then they have their staff

and their security. so there's just a whole variety of layers. and then if you have the first lady also, there's another group and that will join in and and it is interesting that some countries like to count exactly how many cars the united states has in its motorcade when they arrive for a visit because want to up it by one when they come to the united states. mm hmm. which is hard. it's hard to do. it's very hard to do. very hard to do. i remember from from then there's the reporters who are either on the plane or chasing or whoever it is, the cabinet secretary or the president. i remember i think it was from when i was covering president obama that there was a lot of drama around the vehicle, the presidential vehicle transported to another country. the beast. the beast, yes a lot of funny stories about the beast and. the american president has to be in the beast. you don't see them in a loner

vehicle like some world leaders know or the president. our car. bush's last trip to the uk president. bush 43. queen elizabeth personally banned the beast. she personally banned the beast personally banned the beast from my windsor castle because it was too heavy for for anything. she she he ended up riding with her, driving in a range rover. oh, wow. interesting. so there are, you know, a lot of these trips require lot of compromise and a lot of good judgment. and you know, if you make the wrong judgment, you're probably answering the president directly because head of state will say something to them. so a oh, i agree with that. it's, it's, it's a high wire act for sure, but it's it's extraordinary. ambassador marshall, you know,

when you look up the planning presidential trips there, they are described as increase incredibly significant signal of a president's priorities, particularly when they are first elected to office. we'll talk about president trump in a minute. i want to hear about your planning because was on that plane for that first trip and it was amazing in saudi arabia for president obama and for the presidents that use helped to support. when you were with the first lady, hillary clinton tell me about that selection of a country and makes it worth a president choosing it. well you know there is considerable that takes place between the national security the national security advisor and at the state department the secretary of state and defining what first visit should be, who that first visit needs to be,

and how that come together and what are the priorities, as you know from the campaign that want to make sure that we are addressing so that we say that we are beginning to fulfill immediately those obligations to have as a responsibilities, commitments to the american the american public. and and you begin sort of define the style of that administration. i like joe had the the wonderful honor of being able to serve several administrations and and serving president clinton was very different than serving president obama different times of course but there a in both administrations i would venture to guess that we were probably a lot more youthful than some other administrations the staff was selected and that were putting things together and so so there was a sense of a

feeling of i think, just let's go do this opposed to it being very well constructed. and, and i'm feeling a bit more, more defined. things were a lot more flexible in particularly working with president clinton on his trips and but who was going the trips? how is the manifest selected? where were actually seated on air force one was such a big deal was people were jockeying am i closer to the crown and crown where the president and the first lady will sit and he has an actual office in there? there's a shower. shower in the bathroom. it's very nice. they have very nice beds as well. but you want to have your to be just a little bit closer there or you want to be in the staff lounge. there's a wonder of room in the conference room because you're going on a very long trip and we many of our trips were very

long, meant multiple hours, wanted to be able to grab that sofa and be able to take a little nap that was on the sofa. so that was a that was a to be able to be manifested in the in the conference room with president. you were up all night playing hearts. he would select you. you would have you would be playing all night now. president obama was crossword puzzles and sometimes watching a good show but also then hitting the books. both of them were quite studious and. i would have to in a variety of capacities, but primarily i when i worked for president obama, the last leg of the trip, it was a very thorough briefing. what was going to be coming up next and being very and all elements of that visit in. sure. i was quite meticulous in conveying the importance of certain cultural differences him and that really did matter he couldn't show the bottom of his foot things of that sort or issue.

i shouldn't say this, but a shoe in certain cultures. so it's the are really exciting being on air force one. i think joe would agree is the thrill of a lifetime being you traveling with the president on these very important visits? i was a memory that i'll i'll cherish for my entire life and in the moment being part of a mission on behalf of our country was was truly a great honor. what's the blue goose? oh, the blue goose is the podium. so there are names for different things in the white house. the beast is because it is actually a beast. joe is right there was serious negotiate. i had to negotiate one time in china with president clinton that the chinese were not going to let him leave the hotel. they were literally blocking us because they wanted him to get their car. of course they did. and so we were like negotiating. we knew that there going to be a

reciprocal dinner coming, a reciprocal visit to the united states. so i was able to sort of do a little bit of -- for tat with my with my counterpart and. then i was social secretary. i wasn't chief of protocol. so i was i was travel ing along in a very different capacity, but i somehow or another got involved because we were planning the state dinner and my counterpart said, okay, fine, we'll give the car, but we need two more people. at the dinner, i was like, done, you got it. so you have those negotiator things that do take place, but there's a protocol to most things. so you jump in. well, i was just going to the the choice of where you go is frequently out of your hands mean there are many many multilateral summit meetings that are held that are kind of set pieces there. you know, there's a there's a schedule of which country hosts at which point the native summit

will be here in. washington and just exactly i looked we went to president bush 43 went to 48 summit meetings in eight years. so you know, you are a guest of, you know, the french in evian, france where they were holding the the g8. you're a guest in saint petersburg when the russians were part of the g8 and you were, you know they were hosting you. and so you have so much control. so that's where the that's where the diplomacy comes in, because, you know, there's sometimes that for the us president's security, there are just some things you would just never do that your host is adamant that you do and so there's there's a tremendous amount in them in the diplomacy starts you know months sometimes years ahead of time and the negotiations you know from the state department to the white house to some of the other cabinet agencies, you know, the department of homeland security,

because of the secret service, you know, requirements and so it is it is it is a remark complex process that go through and they're planned. i mean, we in the bush administration, we during the trans mission, we looked at those summit meetings that we were going to have to attend. is you have a packed g-8 native north american leaders, asean and i'm i'm leaving office right. a bunch them but they you know those are set it's not your choice what the date is now you can you can negotiate on the date, but it is it a process that's done? we would down the national security advisor, the chief of staff deputy chief of staff, the comms head of would sit down and, you know, maybe twice a year and looked at a year away to where we were going to have to be when and, you know, we ended up as an example, we

hosted the g8 in 2004, two months before the republican national convention in manhattan. so we're, you know, we're juggling all all of that. and it's, you know, it's so it's it's a frequently the case where you are at the mercy of your hosts. oh, we have a i had during the obama we had the naito summit in chicago right on the heels of the g8 which he was holding a camp david. i went back and forth almost nightly on a plane, back and forth between the two cities and then having to take the drive up to camp david, do the arrangement. i tend to arrangements there then make my way back to chicago. so joe is absolutely right. we at the we are we are sort of prisoners to the schedule that has been handed to us. i want to get two questions from the audience, but i do that trip to saudi arabia. president took was a statement.

i had been to saudi arabia many times with other people, but landing on air force one and having the king come out and greet him on the tarmac was a step yeah, it's pretty it was so incredibly over the top. the welcoming of him to saudi arabia. it was such a statement. how much anxiety you have about that visit. actually, not that much, you know. well, i mean the saudis are very good at that. the pomp and circumstance. oh, yeah. and, you know, the you don't really have much of a security concern. and everything's shut down, frozen in place. i mean, the timing is is is interesting because a lot a lot of things happened, you know, late in the evening in saudi arabia. but but that yes, that trip was pretty extraordinary i would say that the the trump visit to

beijing was maybe even more mixed ordinary. i mean if you've if you've worked with with any of those countries in the past, you know, you can't you can do comparisons between administrations. but the the chinese really, really went all out. the showmanship was beyond. i had seen for any previous president secretary of state, secretary of defense and, the the sort of warmness between the leaders was i mean, you know, xi jinping personally attended a lot a lot of events and. there was clearly an effort to to you know, put on an extraordinary show. and they did. but, you know, that's it's just you're never quite sure until you start getting people on the ground but you know, for president bush 41 he had been the equivalent of the ambassador i guess it's called the he was

the. chief of the liaison office. so before we had formalized relations with the people's republic of china back in the back in the seventies. so he was he but was essentially the ambassador to china and love of the country and the people. that first trip back to china as president of the united states was i wasn't on the trip. but i mean, the stories, the pictures, all of that. it was extraordinary because their fondness for for him and then so it's know you're never sure what's going to what you're to get but and can be the other way it can be not very hospitable and and you know and pretty tough that our last g8 in saint petersburg we were we were

you know in the staff was basically in a dacha three days through the whole thing. and, you know, couldn't really couldn't, really do anything other than go to a go to a hall to have a meal. mm hmm. and, you know, there are lots of security, not not physical security, but yeah, technical security issues. and it was, you know that was that was pretty unpleasant. so i want to have some audience because we got started a little late. i'm going to push for a few minutes. so do have questions if you want to raise your hand. we run the microphone to you. if not, that's fine to here in front if you just want to say your name hi. thank you for a very interesting discussion i'm karen gladbach a proud h.h. a member. one thing i've often wondered and i haven't heard much about is the power of the interpreter. no, because i assume.

i mean, it's called interpretation for a reason. and a lot of times human error or maybe somebody says something harsh and they want to, you know, what has there ever issues with the interpreter? do people ever double check to make sure what they said was accurate? mm hmm. you know, it's such a wonderful question. we have to remember that it is of the utmost and in my job as chief of protocol was to consistently the president that that person standing next to them was basically them that they were transmitting words. and we only needed we had to trust in that individual could not use because oftentimes when we're visiting a country, they'll say, oh, don't we just use one? my interpreter is good. they can translate for both of us never should be the case in addition, interpreters learn so much information because often

times will hear the foreign language being, but they're not really interpreting. they're conveying and i learned this once. there's a wonderful interpreter at the state. i love them all. they were one of the the lead patsy. she was just just terrific in the division. but jim brown was, our interpreter, our chinese interpreter, years and years and years and i finally recall a a summit and obama had just had a bilateral with president hu jintao. so it was early in the administration. and i was leaving i was picking up notes, making sure nothing was left behind. and and jim just offhandedly said, wow, you know, that was a interesting conversation. i thought, well, i was in the same room. i didn't think it was all that interesting. and he's like, oh, no, not what was happening the table, but what they were saying to each other. i said, what do you mean jim? and he's like, oh, yeah. they were going on and on about

a whole bunch of stuff. i'm like, stand by. and i ran and i got, our national security adviser, jones, briefing on it. i'm like, you have to tell him what what you heard and debrief interpreters is really important because they do hear those converse asians that are not open to for public consumption are certainly not open for the for the delegations and for our president to hear so interpreters incredibly important if you want to insult an interpreter, call them a translator because the translator is literally translating the exact words where the interpreter is, including the and the and tone in the, you know, urgency that the the meaning of the way they're saying the words, not just what the words say. and that is a incredibly amazing

that they have. and the good ones are really far, few and far between. and the professionals, they're professionals from the states. and you see them consistently in photos over time. absolutely different presence sometimes. then frequently the heads of state know them. i mean, the foreign heads of state know them. and that's that's helpful because they'll have conversations off to side as well here. my name is very i wanted to ask you said it's hard to get the president out of white house without people knowing about it. does the president ever wear a disguise so everyone recognizes him in public? not that. i know. oh, yeah, no. i mean, i think that first ladies, when they when go on a walkabout in washington, i was i accompany then first lady hillary clinton on walks

throughout and she'd wear a baseball cap and kind of, you know, scarves and things like that. ask the secret service if they could please just back a little bit and so that they they feel like there's, you know, quote unquote, normal ish for a day. so i think they try to do that a bit. you know, skiing is actually a really good sport because you have your helmet, you have goggles. not a lot of people know who you are. we found to be i would go on many ski trips with then first lady hillary clinton and chelsea clinton. and they loved it because it provides them some freedom. otherwise, they're sort of captured or president used to go walking around in georgetown during during the holidays and everyone was so mad at him because they closed streets that closed down shops and that, you know, hillary would say, well, you just can't do that anymore. you have to stay at home during the holidays. we love doing that holiday shopping. we did the either the second or third trip to baghdad, and we

snuck the president out of camp david. we had the whole the entire cabinet was up at camp david and there was then for the following day there was going to be a cabinet meeting, which was by video conference from baghdad. the cabinet didn't even and we he had dinner with the cabinet and then was going back to his cabin and he got in the and then the staff some like six or eight of us pulled up in a van and we put him between josh and me in the middle seat of the van and i had told him to wear a baseball and we were driving by and there was some marines walking by. and i, i was like, get down. and so i guess that that qualifies a little bit of. we have another question here on this fireside. hi, my name is matt.

i go to the university of alabama. i'm interning here and both of you had so many amazing opportunities and such an amazing career and it started from such humble beginnings as in fact was marshall i think i saw you went to purdue both of my parents went to for the boilermakers but also we're all tied to any my alabama friends around here it's a little of both from both sides. but are you running. tomorrow? we'll see. but my question, i guess was what would be your advice to someone like me who's starting off as a lowly intern, you know, doing everything wrong, looking to a career in d.c. and do some of the amazing things that you've done. well, you know, my best advice is go to the hill. get a job on the hill, work hard. i'm my career was unusual in

that my i worked on george h.w. bush's presidential campaign in 1979 and 80. and my first real job was at the white house. so it was it was it was it was quite it was quite unusual. but it was because i you know, i went to work in the campaign and worked hard and, you know, tried my best and, you know, there was a lot of luck involved. but you know, in d.c. there's there's a you know, there's a great need young people have just, you know, weight disproportionate influence on the way this government works because they really do most of the work on the hill and so it's it's a great opportunity once you once you get your foot in the door, know, you hear the chatter of, you know, well, senator so-and-so is looking for this or that. and and it's you know, it's know it's i mean, it's not easy, but if you're dedicated and patient, you, you know, you can you can

you can get in there and make a difference and and, you know, make yourself known to people and just keep moving up. there are a lot of, you know, a lot of people who started that way doing very menial, you know, gofer type of of jobs on the hill. and then they just they build a reputation of hard work and, you know, seriousness and disguised. lemon mine was a little different i did intern in washington, d.c. i always wanted to come and work in washington. i had a deep affection for working in government, not as much on the campaign trail, although i love good campaign 92 campaign will remain one of my favorite campaigns ever. it just was free spirited fun, but i work for the state office of ohio's. did an internship here. you know, i go to safeway and for them to put the animals out for free for my dinner. so i've got like a buffet and, you know, have my dinner there.

but i agree with joe i get on a campaign if you really have interest in working in particularly in the executive branch i would i would work on a campaign you know people note hustle right away and get good will get on a good campaign and also with the candidate that think has got a very you know good likelihood of winning and then the chances are pretty high that you'll be invited into take on a position and see see schedule position there but just you know, work hard and experience it all because you meet washington is so fantastic. i mean we have amazing people from the communications press division here. you get to meet all of them. you meet people from the diplomatic community here and experience all that, people from all over the world convene here in washington is so rich with people and and opportunities to take advantage of it all. yeah. good luck to you. that's a good note to end on for today. thank you all for joining us.

thank you for sharing some thoughts and and. a thank you everyone for attending our program this evening. the next episode will be october 3rd and it will be diplomacy then and now. so stay and for now we're going to head outside and brave the weather and make sure you get a cold beverage. but thank you again attending and we'll see you next time.

it's my pleasuris