welcome to the maryland center

for history and culture. i'm critical, gene and president and ceo of the marilyn center for history and culture. i'd like to extend my my sincere thanks to all of you for being here tonight, especially and those elected officials that have been able to join us. thank you to the brewster family for being here tonight in this historic building, the kaiser building. and i just think this is such a fitting location for a book talk and to be amongst the amazing archival and other resources within our library that holds over 7 million records. it's there's much more below us. we are in a sacred space. this building holds collections that date back to the the origins of our state and our

organization has been here since 1844 and we've been collecting a really long time. so this space is typically reserved for research and active history making and interpretation, but i think it's wonderful that we're able to activate tonight for such an interesting and important conversation to. thank you to gary, especially former member of the maryland house of delegates and son of the late, senator daniel brewster for long term support of our institution, along with the opportunity to host this wonderful program tonight. thank you to john frisch, former maryland state house bureau chief of staff for the baltimore sun and author for your work on the significant national story and important marylander senator daniel brewster congratulate on your book, which amazon just named as one of their top 20 bestsellers in the congress

category. welcome to c-span you so much for being here with us tonight, documenting this event. and i have to acknowledge staff and trustees here with us tonight. thank you for your boundless creativity and ability to adapt to new challenges for those of you who may not know our campus under construction, you might have noticed out in the parking lot, but powered by the shaping the future of history campaign with major support capital funding from the state of maryland the first floor of our 1965 building is currently being renovated and transformed into an intentionally designed space for students and families, as well as an updated auditorium. so we needed to get a creative with where we could host this tonight. and i am very thankful our staff for bending and thinking outside the box and how we could equip our library. one of the gems on campus to be able host a program. the new space will be open and

ready for school groups in the fall of 2025. so we will be through some growing pains until that point. but are so excited to be able to share that transformation with you once it's until then, our programs will take place in other spaces on campus, like the library or the carey center, which is where you were earlier this evening. so thank you all for being flexible with us tonight and for activating this space. finally, i would like to thank charlie mitchell, our our chair, the publications committee and maryland center for and culture trustee for his willingness moderate this dynamic conversation, this. charlie mitchell is the prize winning author and editor of three books, the civil war and maryland reconsidered, which coauthored with jean maryland voices of civil war, which is a winner of the founders award from the american civil war museum and travels through history in the mid atlantic. a for all ages winner of a

lowell thomas gold award from the society of american travel writers. he was selected as a historian scholar in 2018 for his contributions to the history of baltimore and, maryland. charlie has published published widely on civil war era politics and slavery in maryland. much of his research has centered the impact of the civil war on civilians. his discussion he has discussed his works are maryland public television. c-span's american history tv and local npr radio programs. he has appeared at the annapolis book festival and the baltimore and the baltimore book festival from 1995 to 2001. as a travel writer for the baltimore sun, mitchell wrote stories historical sites in the mid-atlantic region that blended history and travel. in 2024, he authored a report for the saint paul school shows the saint paul schools and old

episcopal, old st paul's episcopal church. historical associations with slavery. charlie chairs the publications committee here at the marion center for history and culture where he serves as a trustee. and his book reviewer for the maryland historical magazine, which if you haven't picked up a copy. we have some we have some available if you're interested. but this is one of our major benefits to members of the maryland prevention culture. if you're not a member, you can chat with the front desk. would love to bring new people into our family. he serves on the advisory council of the national war museum in harrisburg, pennsylvania, and the board of the monarchist national battlefield foundation. he holds degrees from pennsylvania state university and the university of maryland. and with all of that, please welcome. thank you. katie. thank you very, katie. and i'd like to add my welcome to everybody here tonight all of

our guests and especially some old friends whom i haven't seen in a while. welcome also to our friends from c-span. she sends booktv after i introduce and gary and tell you a little bit more about them following our conversation will allow about 15 minutes for for after which there'll be a book signing downstairs for anyone who hasn't had a chance to get a copy of self-destruction, you will have ample opportunity after after this conversation. so gary brewster, after graduating from gilman in princeton under his law degree at the university of baltimore, clerked for the baltimore county circuit court and served as assistant state's attorney gary sawyer. also served on the staff of the united states senator charles mathias jr during the carter and reagan administrations. he subsequently was elected to the maryland house of delegates and as a delegate the democratic

national convention. in 1994. gary, the democratic nomination for maryland second congressional district. but the general election, he then became a baltimore county public school teacher where he taught olympian michael phelps government not swimming. i don't think and traveled to the olympics. the world championships for the phelps family as the tallest licensed jockey in america, gary rode four times in the world's oldest and toughest timber race. the maryland hooker winning the races on odor in 2017. gary was a member of the maryland aviation commission under governors o'malley and hogan. the baltimore tourism commission and was on the board of directors of the franklin square hospital, saint joseph's hospital foundation, the maryland center for history and culture, the gilman school, where he was president, alumni association. and for the past 38 years, the maryland state fair and agriculture society, serving as chairman for the past. serving as chairman for the past six years until his retirement at the end of 2023. and i'm sure he's not really

retired from there, but john w friess is the author of self-destruction the rise, fall and redemption of u.s. senator daniel brewster. this is john's fourth book. having previously coauthored the autobiography of former u.s. senator joseph de tydings and former governor harry hughes. having written a book on maryland's controversial land use policy known as smart growth. john graduate from the college of william and mary in virginia and was honorably as a first lieutenant in the us army in 71. john is former reporter at maryland statehouse bureau chief of the baltimore sun and united press international. he also covered the virginia assembly in richmond for upi and was editor, reporter and for the reston times, a weekly newspaper in fairfax. john later worked on staff of the governor of maryland at a university of maryland academic research center and, is director of the smart growth office in the u.s. environmental protection agency. in the obama administration, john is married to the children's book.

priscilla cummings, who with us tonight. and they have two grown children. well and hannah, two grandsons and two cats who are not with us tonight. i assume so. so with that, i'd like to pitch it over to gary for a couple of words, and then we'll be back to and then we'll be we'll be off and running with these two guys. thank you very much, charlie. and thank all of you for coming. the maryland center for history and culture is a great institution, and we're so grateful, katie, that you and your team had us here for this event and they've just been a delight to work with all them, especially, you know, debbie, all of it is just at absolutely outstanding. and david and i could go on listing them all but you have put a great team and debbie thank you for everything you're doing. charlie you and neil kick this event off about a year and a half ago. and neil, i want to thank you for hosting an event where katie and i got to talk about it to make sure that that had happened. it was really wonderful. i also want to thank my assistant who helped john with the research.

shannon sheets is in the back there. shannon, thank you for you did to make this book a success. yeah. we also have some elected officials here and delegate julian councilman julian jones, who is four time chair of the county council, former baltimore county councilman john murphy. i see you back there, delegate michelle guyton, a. and someone who i served with on the house judiciary committee, delegate mary louise price. mary, mary louise, nice to see you as well. and you know, we're so grateful that all of you are here. and i also to thank my family for being here. they've been instrumental this. so in the front row here, next to priscilla john's wife, we have my my sister, danielle, my sister jenny lee, and my nephew. thank you all for being here. finally, i want thank john frece

john has spent spent years of his life full time researching and my father's life. and it wasn't it wasn't an easy task. my father's life was all over the place. and so john and priscilla, literally all over the world. so they went to ireland and research there. they went up to to new haven, connecticut to go through the library at yale. they went up to my father's prep school at st paul's in concord, new hampshire, an and the work that they put in was absolutely incredible. and john's written a great book, so i really you all enjoy it and on the last year on the campaign trail, even though i'm not in politics, i ran into judge mike barranco on wife kim everywhere and you were one of the first ones to tell me how much you enjoyed the book and you shared it. other members of the baltimore county bench and others in the bar association. so i want to thank you all for that to. but none of this would be possible. john, you hadn't have done an

incredible job writing daniel brewster story. so i want you to know how grateful the entire brewster family is to you, john. thank you. thank you all all. thanks gary. i'd like just to give a few brief reflections about the book and about how i got involved in this and why i'm sitting up here. i got reacquainted with gary a little over a year ago, actually, at a fundraiser at delegate michelle guyton house. and we enjoyed each other casually in high school and we had a mutual interest in marilyn and america, in american political history and of course, the brewster book project came up. and i was sort of intrigued and when gary told me about it, i thought, well, you know, it's i'm sure it's really nice. it's probably a wonderful of his father father's. and i remembered i had heard what it was in high school i remember brewster something ireland and that's about all i really remembered at that time and so so so gary sent me a copy

of the book and i read it. i read it. last fall, an airplane to paris and by the time we landed, i'd finished it kept me up on the plane. and what i found really was a very well researched and well-written account of a man who had it all. and one of the things really impressed me about the is how effectively john wove together the personal and professional lives of senator brewster really very seamlessly. so know when i got back from paris to talk to gary about it, i wrote an amazon review i don't do very often. i spent more time with gary, chatted with and the idea for this, of course, came up and i was asked if i'd be willing to moderate. i said, well, of course i would be happy to. so and so here we are. so, john, let me ask you, how did you come to write. story first? let me before i answer your

question, let me also add my thanks to everybody who came tonight and for everything at the center for history and culture that. you know, to have a beautiful place like this and have have us here is that's better. okay. i don't use things very often. i was working a book about former u.s. senator joe tydings, and tydings had a party up in hartford county. and i went to it and ran into a man i had known briefly when he was in the legislature, gary brewster. but we know each other really well. and gary sort cornered me in in his living room and said, well, not when i'm done the tydings book, but i considered a book about his father. well, only thing i never knew. danny brewster.

i never met him. and knew very little about him. the only i knew about him were what joe tydings said about him because he served in the senate at the same time, and joe had a way of how do i say this? joe had way of making sure that he really good. and so by comparison and it didn't look quite as good and i just thought there couldn't be a story there. but i told i, gary, that i'd consider it and. when i was done, the tydings book, i contacted and gary sent me maybe even before that sent me a copy of his senior thesis at princeton, which was what, 560 pages that he was. it was. and it was a recount. and his father's career. and it was only then that i realized all the ups, downs of his father's life, or at least

many of them and i think one of the first things i did is i wrote gary letter and i said, i'm interested doing this, but does your family really want to do this? you know, because i was worried that i'd launch into and they'd find out about it. and they said, no, no, no, no, no, you're not going to write about all that stuff. and gary, at least he told me he checked with the family and came back and said they're they're okay with you. it and so launched into it with the sort of the directive gary to write the on a story about his father. and that's what i tried to do. i would say one thing to since we're at the center for marilyn history and culture is that this book is about almost nothing. maryland history and culture, whether it's the horse culture of baltimore county or the history of the different kinds

elections, the civil rights battles, all of it, it's it's all kind of woven together there. and i think this is i feel really at home here talking about that because. i think it fits it fits your mandate. thank you. so i thought, what we would do is is kind of go this somewhat chronologically, really touch on, i think the high points some which are low points but the most important points i think in senator bruce's life and i think the first really probably begins with world war two, where after his freshman year, princeton, danny brewster left and enlisted in the marine corps. and i became the youngest combat officer in marine corps. do what were two if i'm if i'm correct about that and i'd like these guys to really tell the story but just i just wanted to

say that the book opens with his world war two experiences on guam and okinawa and they are and it's amazing survived someone was looking after him severely many men in his in his unit were were wounded and killed and it was so compelling to me that i, i went i went running from maps of guam and okinawa because i wanted to see exactly kind of where he was and. also, i many men in was ihis unit were wounded and killed. it was so compelling to me that i went running for maps of okinawa and guam, because i wanted to see where he was . all i really knew was that these islands were strategic because they were going to the united states to launch land division in japan, should that be necessary.

those are the strategic reasons behind the action of those islands. anyway, i would maybe like you guys to talk about some of his world war ii experience. >> so i knew less about it than you did when i started this project. i had to pull out a map is a, where the hell is okinawa? i knew it was a battle of world war ii. i didn't know when it was or why it was. and i didn't know it size compared to any other. it was a bigger battle than d- day. one reason people don't know about the battle of okinawa, it lasted for three months. one reason people don't know about it is the war, two months later, the bombs were dropped in japan, and the atomic bombs, and that ended the war. people came home and didn't want to talk about the war. they weren't interested in what all had happened. one of the most influential pieces of research i got was --

gerry gave it to meet very early on -- was danny brewster's handwritten war diary. he talked about himself, about what it was like as a 20-year- old, and what he thought his future would hold. he talked about -- a good bit about a love affair he had with a young woman who just collapsed . he talked about the savagery of war. in very matter-of-fact terms. i mean, you know, he talked about his platoon sergeant, while he is talking to his platoon sergeant, who he was very close with, getting a mortar, essentially it landed on his shoulder and blew his head off right in front of him. often i am asked about some of

the lessons from this book. one lesson from this book, one of several, but one is that i think the experiences of war, particularly that kind of brutal, savage, awful war, sticks with you for your entire life. it has effects on you that you probably -- the person who had experienced it, you probably don't even recognize yourself. >> i even want to set the stage just a little bit earlier. my father's mother grew up at wickliffe, which they modeled after warwick castle, now known as marysville school. it was the largest home in the mid-atlantic with 65 rooms, 17 bedrooms each with its own bath. his father grew up right around the corner at what was then called, but now gramercy bed-

and-breakfast. his mother and father would ride back and forth on horseback and grew up in wonderful, wonderful circumstances. horse country, wealth, privilege, opportunity, everything. he was a direct descendent of benjamin franklin. his great-grandfather was attorney general of the united states but he had everything going for him anyone could want. the japanese bombed pearl harbor. he volunteers and because the youngest combat marine officer goes over. to follow up on some of the carnage so you get an idea of what it was like, first on guam, he is asleep in his foxhole and hears a noise. he looks up and sees a japanese soldier jumping on top of him with a knife stabbing him. he throws up his forearm, and for the rest of his life he had scars on his forearm where the knife went through to the bone. then he is onto okinawa. he is leading his men into battle, into a ravine. it was a trap.

the box is opened up with fire. everyone is getting a shot. in that three-month battle for okinawa, my father was wounded seven times. on the occasion when his platoon sergeant had his head blown off in front of him, the shrapnel went through both of my father up his legs, blowing him 20 feet backwards. he was also crossing a river, held his rifle above his head, and he was shot in the figure. in the ravine, he was shot in the neck, the foot, and finally, he was shot in the head. if you saw downstairs the display in the server room, you can see his marine corps helmet. the bullet went in the back, small hole, splintered as it came out the front, and his face was covered with blood. when you have been shot at, had grenades thrown at you, had holes but for your leg, been stabbed in a foxhole, you're going to have repercussions. my father did throughout the rest of his life. medication,

he would wake up screaming in the middle of the night. it certainly did impact him. >> it is perfectly understandable, having been through all that, the horror of that. i think the term at that time maybe was combat fatigue. world war i it was called shell shock. of course, now we know it was ptsd. would not have ptsd having gone through all that. really extraordinary. maybe we can move on to his legislative career, which began in the maryland house of delegates, and then house of representatives in the congress, and of course, six- year term as u.s. senator. i think there are many highlights, and some low lights, in that career. i would like to have you guys talk about that as well. >> well, danny brewster became known as the golden boy of maryland politics because he just soared through the ranks of different levels of maryland politics. i think he was part

of a post-world war ii generation that went to the maryland general assembly. as a reporter, i covered the maryland general assembly for a lot of years. there were some parties, but i think this generation that had just come back from war probably partnered -- partied harder. they were just probably so glad to be home and alive. they were trying to pursue their ambition to do something for their country. they were elected from all over the state and came into annapolis. there are stories, and those stories in the books, gary may want to tell some of them, danny doing some real funny shenanigans. because every young and strong and -- they were young and

strong. it seemed like every step was preordained for him. he moved almost flawlessly from the house of delegates to the congress, i think two terms in congress, and then into the senate. moving right on up. >> just to follow up on that. it is pretty remarkable. he was elected to the house of delegates in his 20s, u.s. house in his 30s, and was united states senator in his 30s, which was remarkable. another thing, if you told people what i'm about to tell you, they would not believe you. his first hire was his receptionist. nancy pelosi. her first job out of college, college graduate, was to be my father's receptionist. one of her jobs was giving tours at the capitol that she would later preside over. his other hire right away who we actually -- who actually

worked for him when he was in the house of representatives, and then worked at his campaign for the us senate was steny hoyer. he went on to be majority leader. for many years you have the two most powerful people in congress, nancy pelosi, two heartbeats away from the presidency as speaker of the house, and steny hoyer as majority leader, and they were on my dad's staff together at the same time. for decades to come, they became great rivals. but friends. and so, they were both very loyal and supportive of him. he was able to get a lot of legislation accomplished. i know we will talk in a minute , and john and charlie and i will all have something to say about his 64 presidential primary run, but on the legislative front, i want to mention two things. island was slated for development. he was going to be like ocean city. it was his bill, sb 20, he was the sole sponsor. he got many of his colleagues in the u.s. senate to cosponsor

. it created the assateague island national seashore. had it not been for danny brewster and that bill, the island would have looked like ocean city. that was quite an accomplishment that he was very proud of. he was also chairman of a commerce subcommittee that pass the country up his first endangered species act before the one we know today became in effect. from saving assateague island to chairing the commerce committee the past the first endangered species act, there were a lot of legislative accomplishments he was very proud of. >> one thing i will say, i'm not sure if this was put down when he was in the house or senate, but he had a rule about gifts, which was his staff. if you can't eat or drink it in one day, don't take it. very good advice. i think that little adage will become relevant to other things we will be talking about. one of the most, probably the most interesting and somewhat complicated issue during your

father's senate career, of course, his running as a favorite son in the 1964 primaries against george wallace, which he did as a great favor to lbj, with whom he was very close. that is quite a story. i think i understand it, but i think it would be best if maybe you guys could unpack it for us and tell us exactly what happened. >> well, in those days, president johnson -- let me back up. i'm sorry. president johnson had just become president with the assassination of president kennedy. i'm sorry. i am not very good with this. president johnson had just become president with the assassination of president kennedy. he thought it was a little unseemly for him to be seeking higher office right away.

he wanted to be the president. there was never a question of that, in his own right, but he didn't want his name on the ballot. there were only a few primaries in those days, not like today. he asked in the states were there were primaries if a favorite son could stand in for him. if the favorite son won, the favorite son would then say , all my delegates will go for lyndon johnson. when it came to maryland, he asked danny brewster to do it. at the time the surprise was that george wallace, the segregationist governor of alabama, came in and ran in that primary. suddenly it was brewster versus wallace. this is at a time when the civil rights bill was pending

in the congress. initially i think danny thought -- danny had always been in support of civil rights. after world war ii when he saw african americans fighting side- by-side with him, and he came home and they were being treated like they were being treated with segregation before the war, he thought that was really wrong. he had a history of this. he just thought that the maryland people would obviously vote against wallace. well, he was shocked at the treatment he got. he was spot on, -- spit on, her what -- his wife's life was threatened. they had to have police outside where gerry was growing up. it was a bitter, bitter, nasty race. but ultimately, danny brewster won that race. he won by 10

percentage points. but a lot of people who lived through it thought, still think, that danny didn't win that race because the initial expectation was that he was swamped wallace. 10 percentage points, i guess, did it feel like enough. >> just to add on to that, keep in mind that in 1964, as john indicated, the civil rights act of '64, arguably the most significant legislation in our nation's history, was being filibustered in the united states senate. that went on for 75 days. there had been 11 times in our nation's history to break it a civil rights filibuster. not one of them was ever broken. wallace enters these primaries with the sole intent of holding up the civil rights act of 1964. president johnson did ask my father to enter that presidential primary to run

against alabama governor george wallace. that was the last of the primaries. wallace had been in some more than once, but maryland was the only one below the mason-dixon line. the country was worried. the white house was worried. it was going to be tougher and closer than they, perhaps, thought. a lot of my father's colleagues came into maryland. the kennedy family, as john indicated, had just lost resident kennedy. they thought it was so important , the kennedy family made the decision that for their first campaign appearance since president kennedy's assassination, they were going to come to maryland and campaign for danny brewster against george wallace. i want to read you the statement senator ted kennedy made on television. by the way, this race was covered on national television. george wallace and danny brewster debated on the leading talkshow at the time, issues and answers, on abc news with a

moderator for the first kennedy- nixon debate. for the night of the election, walter contrite -- walter contrite reported precinct by precinct results to the nation on the campaign. one of the pivotal point is when the kennedy family decided to engage in maryland on this very issue. soon after president kennedy 's assassination. here is what senator ted kennedy said on that occasion. i appreciate this opportunity to speak to the people of maryland. i would like to thank all of you who are watching for the many messages of sympathy you have sent since last november to mrs. kennedy and her children, and for the prayers you have offered in their behalf. i hope all maryland democrats who voted for my brother in 1960 will vote for senator brewster in this primary. the lesson should be that we should not hate, but love one another, as

the bible preaches. that we should cast your vote and use our powers to create, not conditions of oppression that lead to violence, but a climate of freedom that leads to peace. it is in that spirit, and that of your own great tradition in maryland, that i hope the democrats of maryland will vote on may 19 for senator brewster. that was the kennedy family's first campaign appearance. they came here to maryland. senator brewster did win, and within 24 hours of maryland doors -- maryland voting for brewster over wallace, the leadership of the u.s. senate got together, the senate republican leader got together with the democratic floor leader, hubert humphrey, the senator said, senator humphrey, the republicans will join the northern democrats. and then you will have the votes necessary to break that filibuster.

the filibuster -- the deal was struck that night to break it within 24 hours of the maryland decision to reject wallace. within a few weeks the filibuster was broken after 75 days. and then, within weeks, president johnson signed the civil rights act of 1964 into law because of the courageous stand the people of the state of maryland took in that race. >> thank you, gerry. wall said. when you read the book, you see senator brewster ran into this reservoir of racism in maryland. it caught him in a lot of others by surprise. there are a number of really nasty and threatening letters that are in the brewster archives but john included in the book to try to portray just how ugly the situation was. i think because brewster, i think the only beat wallace by a tent -- templates can be pretty significant margin.

he did not do as well in wisconsin and indiana. the impression was brewster really didn't do very well and that he lost, i think. anyway, that is a real shame. i think certainly your father took a huge risk. it was not good for his career, ultimately , for having made that move. >> one thing i would add, charlie, is that that chapter in the book about that race i called the turning point. it was the turning point for danny, personally, i think. i think the reaction he got really shocked him and made him question what was going on in the country, it made him question his own value as a leader. i think even considered briefly maybe that he should consider leaving politics. one of the things we will

probably talk about is that danny ended up as an alcoholic. i think what happened to him in that race really contributed to that. >> the last thing i would say on this is that wallace apparently, after the maryland primary, he regretted he had not run in more northern states against favorite sons. you mentioned alcoholism and his issues with alcohol. that, of course, sadly figures very prominently in his life. i understand there is a real family history. i guess his father and other members of your family struggled with alcoholism. of course, as we know, he eventually became quite an effective advocate for programs dealing with alcoholism and was a real leader in the state. maybe you could talk a little bit about his struggles with

alcohol and how maybe that was part of the perfect storm, one element of the perfect storm that ultimately brought him down. >> there are many people who know more about alcoholism than i probably do, but i think that a problem like that doesn't happen to you overnight. it is slow and grows, and then suddenly you are drinking too much. but he had -- you could see the reasons why he possibly was drinking. there was some family history there. the reactions he must have had internally to the war, what happened to him and what he saw in the war, and then he was in a profession, politics, where drinking is part of what goes on. i mean, i know there are some

elected officials here tonight. the probably don't know what i'm talking about, but -- it was my experience watching politics that there were a lot of -- there was a lot of drinking and partying going on. i remember doing -- when i was doing the book on joe tidings, him talking about going to a certain senator's office, and there was a full bar in the office. it is a way of life. it can get someone before they know it. but then, when you have the pressures of something like the wallace campaign, i think that could make it worse. >> my father had a disease, alcoholism. it really took a devastating toll on him. talking about -- think about

this. the beautiful houses and estates i talked about were my father's life started, he is living in one of those. he is the oldest of five kids. the oldest of five. he is 10 years old, and his father dies of alcoholism. he becomes the man of the house at age 10. that is an enormous burden to inherit at such a young age. and then, the experiences in the war, the wallace campaign. the family tendency towards drinking creates -- exacerbated. it was a tough battle for him to beat. i had lunch with steny hoyer, former majority leader, just a few weeks ago in washington d.c. with a bunch of his colleagues on capitol hill. steny stood up and said he wanted to say something about senator brewster. one of the things he said was, danny brewster was not a bad person. he had a bad disease. it was my honor to work for him for those five years on capitol hill that i did. but i would like to tell you all this. i can't say for sure that danny

brewster would have been president, but i can tell you that danny brewster could have been president. the devastation of alcohol was just tragic. in many ways, it is a tragedy what happened. because all of us tend to think what could have been. his road in life did not end up the way he thought it would, but he found a way to help people throughout that road. for example, after the political career ended, he chaired the governor's commission on alcoholism. he chaired each governor's commission on aids. he chaired the governor's korean war memorial commission. he served on the baltimore port commission. he got put on the board of the national park foundation because of his -- what he did for assateague island. he got put on the board and an officer of former members of

congress. he didn't think he would be welcomed back because of all the triple he had been -- trouble he had been through. he was welcomed back with open arms. even though life did not turn out as he planned, he found every opportunity to continue to be of service. >> this is why the last line of my amazon review just reads, i wish i had known him. that is what i thought after i finished the book. a man i wished i had known. gerry, you had told me that -- about your father's legal troubles. i read about those in the book. you mentioned that on the nixon tapes you can hear him talking to chuck colson about how to get brewster and some other democratic senators who had been allegedly taking bribes from a catalog company in order to keep postal rates low. i listened to the tapes. you also mentioned that the trump immunity decision from the supreme court mentioned the brewster decision.

i didn't read that passage, i skimmed it looking for brewster. i am sure it was there somewhere. >> it is there. >> i am sure it is but it seems to me that your father really kind of ran over a perfect storm during his senate career with the drinking, the primary against wallace. i know he was closely allied with obj on vietnam. there was intraparty friction. he turned on lbj on vietnam when he realized maybe this wasn't such a good idea but a formidable opponent emerges in the person of charles mathias, one of his best friends, and that his chief of staff is stealing from him. all these things are happening. i do have to say that one of the things that really impressed me about the book, and about senator brewster, is that he never seemed to blame anybody but himself for his problems. i never read anything in the book where he was blaming somebody else. even the guy that was stealing

from him. anyway, that was something that impressed me. maybe you guys can talk a little bit about the legal challenges he faced. >> well, there is another tragedy. my father was drinking too much. he has to -- his administrative assistant, chief of staff, has a heart attack. he has to let the next guy of line -- in-line take over as chief of staff. he thought this guy was pretty good stuff. he said he had been on the olympic basketball team, which turned out not to be true. back then you didn't have computers and google. my father hired him to be the chief of staff. my father was drinking more and more. back then, keep in mind, this is right before water great -- watergate breaks open. there are no rules on camping finances and committees and all that. you could essentially do what you wanted. sullivan was the guy's name. he was put in charge of collecting the campaign contributions. he got caught pocketing them.

the federal government, f.b.i., catches him stealing camping contributions. they said they would prosecute him. he says, wait a minute, don't prosecute me, i gave the money to danny brewster. they go, really? he says, brewster took it. there was a very ambitious prosecutor who decided this is a good way to make a name for himself. he ultimately ended up running for high office. the danny brewster case was the case he used. my father gets indicted for bribery. a jury of 12, after many years, finds him unanimously not guilty of bribery. not guilty. however, there was a lesser charge thrown in. after six years of litigation, my father paid a $10,000 fine for accepting an unlawful campaign contribution, unlawful gratuity, without corrupt intent. that is why the supreme court of maryland said brewster keeps

his law license because there was no correction. after the six years of hell , he has a pink a $10,000 fine and no corruption. but as the case is about halfway through, he went to the u.s. supreme court twice, and it is about halfway through, and we listen to the nixon recordings. you hear president nixon tell chuck colson, that danny brewster case, u.s. senator danny brewster, let's go after him, find out who the other democratic u.s. senator are he took those campaign contributions, and chuck colson, he said, mr. president, there were republican senators who took those contributions too and also voted on the bill, and nixon says, i don't give a about the republicans, get the democrats, because what we want to do is put the pressure on the chairman of the senate watergate committee to get him to back off of the watergate investigation. the way we are going to get them to do it is to go after these democratic u.s. senator is and lay them out the way brewster has been

laid out, the way brewster is taking the hit. think about this. in this day and age, think about this. it is on the tape. president nixon in the oval office orders chuck colson to get the attorney general , the justice department, and the f.b.i. to go after democratic united states senators. and they did. you know what the real tragedy of this is? on this particular legal matter? after the brewster case is over, the six years of hell he went through, sullivan, his only accuser -- i dropped out of gilman school to live in a hotel in washington so i can be at the trial for weeks on end -- sullivan was the only witness that testified against my father. two years after the case is over, sullivan is caught stealing money from a subsequent job. he is prosecuted. he pleads guilty, and he goes to jail for two years. now, you don't need the judge

to tell us, if you're only witness has been convicted and pled guilty to stealing money and going to jail, if that had happened two years earlier, there never would have been a danny brewster case. just one more tragedy that happened in this patriot's life. >> when i think of danny's legal problems, one of the images that comes to mind for me, and from the book too, is that he had lost reelection in november 1968. he and his second wife were sexually estranged, but anne owed a stud farm, horse farm, just west of dublin.

so anne wanted to be married to a u.s. senator. when he was in a senator, she got out of there and went back to ireland. she was a very successful trainer there, but nonetheless, she went back. danny tried to get a couple of jobs. by the time he got to ireland, he was drinking very heavily. so heavily that he wasn't there, i don't know, a week, or under a week, and she had him essentially committed to an asylum of some sort to treat him for his alcoholism. it was that acute. the doctors there actually made it worse with the way they treated it. he was in the hospitals, various hospitals, in ireland for seven months. that is a long time.

he was essentially by himself. anne didn't spend any time seeing him. his family wasn't there . it was just horrible. while he is there trying to recover from all this in the hospitals in ireland, he gets word that in maryland they have indicted him. it's like, could anything get worse? while he was still in the hospital, he tried to remember everything, every dealing he had with jack sullivan. you know, he had been drinking in those days. he couldn't remember so much. it was really a very sad situation. >> i think maybe we have five more minutes, and they will do q&a. i found a quote from the washington post from august 1978. i think it was in your thesis, gerry. i found a very poignant.

senator brewster was asked if he missed the senate by the reported. he said, no, i think about it sometimes, i remember it all right, but i don't miss it. life goes on. as a young man, i was never thinking of tomorrow. it was my the fee. i thought only of the pastor idealism turned into ambition, which turned into alcoholism. really, very self-aware. maybe to finish, gerry, maybe you could talk a little bit, or maybe both of you quickly about his final years with his third marriage and family, and his productive years. we talked about a lot of his public service, but his life as a farmer, and maybe i would also love to hear you comment maybe a little bit about how you were able to be so loyal to your father given all of his troubles

, and given, by his own admission, that he was absent for much of you growing up. >> well, my father didn't live a perfect life. he was not a perfect person. he made a lot of mistakes, which he readily acknowledged. he spent the rest of his life trying to make amends for those mistakes and trying to be helpful to others in any way he could. his marriage to my mother didn't work out. a second marriage didn't work out. finally, after several attempts at rehabilitation, he was in harford county for his second or third -- 30 day inpatient treatment program, he meets a very attractive blonde on kitchen duty. in treatment you are not meant to socialize. well, they didn't follow that rule very well. danny brewster and judy got together and fell in love. they

both helped each other and supported each other through their recovery for the rest of my father's life. they were married for 35 years. very happily. danielle is the oldest of those three children from that marriage. jenny lee, both of them are in the front row here, has a twin brother, dana, who flew down from canada with his wife to deliver our father's marine corps helmet to make sure it was here for this event tonight. he lived a very happy life in service. he loved farming and horses. most of all, he loved his family. as i said, he continued to be of service. i want to finish with one quick story. you mentioned mac mathias. mac mathias defeated my father for reelection. they were best friends.

during law school they were classmates at the university of maryland. mac mathias live with my father in his house during law school. my father was an usher and his wedding. mac mathias is my brother up his godfather. they served in the legislature, on the judiciary committee in the u.s. house, and in the u.s. senate. and mac mathias, after my father's problems continue to increase, went to danny brewster's best friend and said, danny, somebody is going to beat you. it might as well be me. they continued a very friendly campaign. they have great admiration and respect for each other. after matthias defeated my father, i went to work for him with my father's blessing after i graduated from college. this is the story. about where we are today politically in this country. my father lost. he had been to federal court. he was embarrassed. he had lost his reputation. and mac mathias, on the next

democratic inauguration, which is jimmy carter in 1976, senator matthias called up his old friend, danny brewster, who is down and out, and says, danny, i want you to come back to washington. i want you to come back to the u.s. senate. i want you to march in with me side-by-side with the entire united states senate to president carter's inauguration. my father said, mac, you are very kind, but nobody is going to want to see me after what i have done. i would be well received. mac mathias said, danny, you are wrong. i want you to come. i am asking you as a personal favor to come. and my father went. in spite of everything he had been through , and mac mathias, republican, walks his defeated democratic opponent side-by-side down the aisle for jimmy carter's inauguration. you don't see that today. it is too bad. we really should. >> thank you, gerry. with a fitting anecdote to end this discussion about a really

remarkable life. i would like to thank you, gerry and john, for participating in this conversation but i would like to thank the maryland center for history and culture. katie caljean and the other staff for allowing us to be in the spectacular space. one of the most beautiful spaces in the area. with that, we would like to open the floor up to any questions you all might have. there is a microphone floating around. >> hello. [ inaudible ] this was an incredibly enlightening conversation. i never get to ask sources this question. to senator brewster's son, it is two parts.

what has it been like to have such an intimate deep dive into your familial history, particularly parts that are not so rosy? and to john, what is it like to so intimately know the character and history of a person you will never meet? >> excellent question. thank you for your coverage and everything that you do. we have talked about many tragedies of my father's life. one of them is, when you get in trouble, people remember the trouble. that is the guy that drank too much. that is the guy that had the legal trouble. that is what they remember. i always thought that was very unfair, because my father did so much. you know?

saving assateague island, creating a national seashore that lasts in perpetuity. being the only maryland are in the history of our state to win a presidential primary. to have an instrumental role in the passage of the civil rights act of 1964. starting the careers as speaker of the house of nancy pelosi and majority leader steny hoyer. i could go on. but all those wonderful things got washed away by his troubles. perhaps, that is one of the reasons why i ran for the house of delegates myself that i wanted to make my father proud. and i wanted the people of maryland to know what a good man he was. when john and i first started talking about this book, i said, john, my father's story needs to be told, and you know, we want it all told, the good, the bad and the ugly. none of us are perfect. we don't lead perfect lies. as i said earlier, my father

readily admitted his mistakes. the thing i am eternally grateful for is that john freese wrote a book about my father that is meticulously research that provides, not only great maryland history, the great national history. that story needed to be told. i'm grateful to john for telling it. thank you. >> the only thing i would add to that is, this is a man i never knew, but after you spend so much time researching his life and talking to his family, talking to his friends and his associates, you get to the point where he almost feel like you do know him. i feel like i know him. when i would uncover a little tidbit that didn't put him in the best light, it may be a little sad, but it was part of his real story. it didn't do anybody any good for me to hide it.

and so, to the extent i could put it in context, i tried to write what he was really going through. this is a political biography, but it is really the story of one man's life and how he had terrific highs and lows. and then, recovered from it. i think one of the real lessons of this book is that you could have some of the worst things that life can throw at you -- think about what happened to him in okinawa, think of his problems with alcoholism, think of being spit on in the race against wallace -- and yet, come out of it at the end with your self respect, with people who admire you, who recognize

that you are just human like everybody else, and they are forgiving. i mean, the people who -- i used to say that gerry is like wackamole with the people who keep saying , oh, danny brewster was convicted -- it says in the newspapers are somewhere online, danny brewster was convicted of bribery. no he wasn't. gerry goes after them every time, because it wasn't true. that incorrect memory carries on and is repeated. it is damaging. are trying to tell the truth, but sometimes the truth was not pretty. >> i see jake raising his hand determine of the maryland center for history and culture and chairman of about everything else.

>> i know danny brewster. helluva guy and always. i think thomas jefferson said there is nothing so tasty as a real morsel of history. and this is real history. i think it is a wonderful piece of work. at the jefferson also said, ambivalence is an early sign of wisdom. i'm sure he was ambivalent about a lot of stuff. i never really talked to him about it, but just out of curiosity, because he was -- and i've told you about this in the '64 pure eat of history -- he was very

-- period of history -- he was very much saying to johnson that you have got to throw a lot of troops, and johnson was probably listening to him, i suspect. did he ever talk about that much? was he ambivalent at the time or not? you see all these things now. amazon prime, you watch these things. what is the movie about the pentagon papers? various stuff in these documentaries. >> -- i am fascinated by that piece. what is that piece of real history. >> good question. keep in mind that danny brewster was a camel -- combat marine. he fought for his country. he thought when he fought in a

war, you fight it to win it. you don't fight with one hand tied behind your back. it wasn't my father's decision to enter vietnam. but when he was in the senate, we were in vietnam. he saw the troops being killed over there and didn't like it. he actually went over to vietnam . as a colonel in the united states marine corps, he went to the front lines. he had to do two weeks of active duty. he went over to vietnam in the heart of the war in 1965 as a colonel in the marine corps where there is video of him firing artillery guns. he came back. it was also on the u.s. senate armed services committee. he was really wearing two hats over there. he went to the white house. there is a picture of him with general westmoreland and was president johnson telling him what he saw in vietnam. he supported the president. lbj was committed to the war. my father is a gung marine, and he said we have to give our

boys everything they need, or else bring them home. if we are going to have them there , and the johnson administration made that decision, he said we have to give them what they need. he did support the vietnam war too long. when his career was over, and he had the opportunity to reflect back on the entirety of his life and his entire political career, he said, unequivocally, the greatest mistake that he ever made in his entire political life was supporting the vietnam war. he said, we had no business over there. he said that he had wished he asked more probing questions. when the gulf of tonkin resolution came up, which authorized the use of massive armies and troops from the u.s., my father did take the senate floor and asked that the chairman, is there anything in the resolution that will authorize the president of the united states to have a blank check to send troops to vietnam? and the chairman said, no, that is not contemplated.

what is contemplated is that it will intimidate the enemy by giving this authority so they will surrender. it didn't intimidate them. they didn't surrender. my father, to the day he died, regretted his support for the vietnam war. >> a great story. as an 83-year-old, i'm going to go home and go to bed. [ laughter ] >> thank you very much. >> [ inaudible ] talking about the legal trouble as senator brewster. do you think if he had hired bennett williams at the beginning of the trial that the disposition would have been different, the outcome would have been different? >> thank you, kevin. one of the best criminal defense attorneys in our

nation's history. my father, unfortunately, did not hire him at the outset. he did hire him at the end when everett bennett williams closed out the case, successfully so. during the trial, just one quick story. u.s. attorney, he came to my dad's lawyers at the time, norman ramsey, and they all met with the u.s. attorney. they said to him, he said they were going to indict danny brewster, and they said, he is not guilty of this. danny brewster will take a lie detector test. danny brewster will take a lie detector test if you have sullivan take one. the u.s. attorney sec, no, we're not going to do that. i think that probably tells you everything you need to know. but yes, if he had hired everett bennett williams at the outset, we might have done better. >> could you tell us a little more about his role in the

civil rights act of 1964 and the voting rights act of 1965? and how [ inaudible ] while he was working on that, how did his colleague in the senate vote on those bills? >> good question. i'm glad you brought that up. think about this. danny brewster was the only united states senator -- sorry, the only democratic united states senator south of the mason-dixon line that cosponsored the civil rights act of '64, the voting rights act of '65, the fair housing act of '68. there were some republicans back then that does support civil rights, but the democratic senators in the south led the filibuster. the richard russell and strom thurmond and all of those. they were the ones that southern -- after the civil

rights act of '64 past, they eventually flipped over and became republicans. with regard to maryland at the time, the civil rights act of 64 , danny brewster, the democratic u.s. senator from maryland, cosponsored it. the other u.s. senator was a republican, and he supported civil rights too. maryland can be proud that it's two u.s. senator is in '64 both voted for the civil rights act. then joe tidings comes in in '65. for the voting rights act, again, maryland can be proud. both of the u.s. senator is, danny brewster and joe tidings, supported the voting rights act of 1965. >> i have a question about the civil rights acts.

would that be passed if he was not involved? >> that is very good question. what i can tell you is that, never before in our nation's history, has the filibuster been broken on civil rights. after your grandfather beat governor wallace, the deal was struck within 24 hours to overcome that filibuster. brewster did defeat wallace, and that was what was the impetus for the breaking of the filibuster and the passage. perhaps somebody else could have done it, but president johnson asked your grandfather to take on that role, and in that democratic presidential primary, because in every single election, he had been the leading vote-getter. had another candidate been in there, who knows if they would have succeeded or not. thank you for your question. >> i would just add that i think, had he lost that race against wallace, that probably

would've been the end of the civil rights act of '64. >> absolutely. >> i don't really have a question. gerry, you and i have known each other for a while. a bit in the senate, the house of delegates. i know you as a man of courage. i just want to thank you for taking the risk of telling this story. john, he could have done it without you, but as a team, you really have given maryland a gift. this book needs to be understood by more than just the people in this room. i am glad that c-span is here. i hope this is shown in a number of other places, including schools. i congratulate you for the risks you took, the courage he showed in getting this started and done. thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you very much. is deleg,

who is one of the leaders on the house judiciary committee and i had the honor to serve mary louise, i have itgot to respond to that. there is a point of personal privilege. ladies and gentlemen, this is delicate mary louise price, one of the leaders on the house judiciary committee. i have had the honor to serve with her in annapolis. i want to talk about encourage you and i faced together. the bill to ban assault weapons in maryland in the 1990s came before our committee, the house judiciary committee. i represented central and northern baltimore county, something that delegate michelle guyton, is well aware of that territory. central and northern baltimore county. delegate mary louise price represented harford county. very, very conservative gun toting harford county. the entire bill in the state of maryland, as a national

forerunner to banning assault weapons, needed two more votes. we represented tough districts. mary louise and i talked about it. the baltimore sun ran articles on it. how will brewster and price vote? we both decided at our own political peril, courage to you, from harford county, we both voted, gave the final two votes needed to pass the assault weapons ban. that was because of your courage. i thank you. [ applause ] again. hope you will adjourn downstairs to the lobby >> i think that exchange is the perfect exchange on which we should end. i want to thank you all again. i hope you will adjourn downstairs to the lobby. >> and buy a book. >> john will happily inscribe it for you. you may not purchase any other book, including one of mine, until you have bought john's.

thank you very much. >> thank you very much. we appreciate you all coming. [ applause ]