with c-span's live coverage this january as republicans take control of both chambers of congress and a new chapter begins with the swearing in of the 47th president of the united states. on friday don't miss the opening day of the 119th congress. watch the election of the house speaker, the swearing in of new members of congress and the senate, and the first day of leadership for south dakota's john thune as the new senate majority leader. on monday january 6, my from the house chamber, witness vice president kamala harris preside over the certification of the electoral college vote for this historic session officially confirming donald trump as the winner of the 2024 presidential election and on january 20, tune in for our live, all day coverage of the presidential inauguration as donald trump takes the oath of office becoming the 47th president of the united states. stay with c-span throughout january for comprehensive, live, unfiltered coverage of the 119th congress and the presidential inauguration. c-span. democracy unfiltered peer created by cable. welcome to the maryland center for history and culture.

i'm katie, president and ceo of the maryland center for history and culture. i like to extend my sincere thanks to all of you for being here tonight, especially those elected officials that have been able to join us. thank you to the bursar family for being here tonight and this historic building, the kaiser building. and i think this is such a fitting location for a book talk to be amongst the amazing, archival and other resources within our library that holds over 7 million records. there is much more below us. we are in a sacred space. this building holds collections that date back to the origins of our state and our organization is been here since 1844. we have been collecting a

really long time. this space is typically reserved for research and active history making and interpretation but i think it's wonderful that we are able to activate it tonight for such an interesting and important conversation. >> thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you to gerry brewster, especially pick former member of the maryland house of delegates in late senator daniel bursar for his long-term support of her institution. along with the opportunity to host this wonderful program tonight. thank you to john frece, former maryland state house bureau chief of staff of the baltimore sun and author , for your work on this significant national story and important marylander, senator daniel brewster. congratulations on your book, which amazon just named as one of the top 20 best sellers in the congress category. [ cheers and applause ] welcome

to c-span. thank you for being here with us tonight documenting this event. and i have to acknowledge our staff and trustees here with us tonight. thank you for your boundless creativity and ability to adapt to new challenges. for those of you who may not know, our campus is under construction. you may have noticed out in the parking lot. but powered by the shaping future of history campaign with major support and capital funding from the state of maryland, the first floor of our 1965 building is currently being renovated and transformed into an intentionally designed space for students and families. as well is an updated auditorium. we needed to get a little creative with where we could host this program tonight and i'm thankful to our staff for bending and thinking outside the box on how we could equip our library. one of the gems on campus, to host the program. the new space will be open and ready for school groups in the fall of 2025 so we will be living through some growing

pains to that point, but we are excited to share that transformation with you once it's ready. until then, our programs would take place in other spaces on campus, like the library or the kerry center, which is where you were earlier this evening. thank you, all, for being flexible with us tonight and for activating the space. finally, i would like to thank charlie mitchell, our chair and publications committee and maryland center for history and culture trustee for his willingness to moderate this dynamic conversation this evening. charlie mitchell is the prize-winning author and editor of three books. the civil war in maryland reconsidered, coauthored with jean baker. marilyn voices of the civil war, which is the winner of the founders award from the american civil war museum, and travels through american history in the mid-atlantic: a guide for all ages and winner of the lowell thomas gold award from the society of american travel writers he was selected

as a baltimore historian scholar in 2018 for his contributions to the history of baltimore and maryland. charlie has published widely on civil war era politics and slavery in maryland. much of his research has centered on the impact of the civil war on civilians. he has discussed his works on maryland public television, c- span's "american history tv", and local npr radio programs. he has appeared at the annapolis book festival and baltimore book festival. from 1995 through 2001, as a travel writer for the baltimore sun, he wrote stories about historical sites in the mid- atlantic region that blended history and travel. in 2024, he authored a report for the st. paul schools and old st. paul's episcopal church historical associations with

slavery. charlie chairs the publications committee here at the maren center for history and culture where he serves as a trustee and book reviewer for the american historical magazine, which if you haven't picked up a copy, we have some available if you're interested. this is one of our major benefits to members of the maryland center for history and culture. chat with the front desk . we would love to bring new people into our family. he serves on the advisory council of the national civil war museum in harrisburg, pennsylvania, and the board of the wanaque see national battlefield foundation and holds degrees from pennsylvania state university and university of maryland. and with all of that, please welcome charlie mitchell. thank you. [ applause ] >> thank you very much, katie, and i like to add my welcome to everybody here tonight all of our guests, and especially some old friends, whom i haven't seen in a while.

welcome, also, to our friends from c-span. c-span's "book tv" . after i introduced john and gerry and tell you more about them following our conversation, we will allow about 15 minutes for q&a, after which there will be a book signing downstairs for anyone who is not had a chance to get a copy of "self destruction" . you have ample opportunity after this conversation. so, gerry brewster, after graduating from princeton, he earned his law degree at the university of baltimore and clerk for the baltimore county circuit court and served as assistant stateb,"s attorney. gerry also sarben the staff of the united states senator charles during carter administration's and was elected to the maryland house of delegates and is a delegate to the democratic national convention. in 1994, he won the

democratic nomination for maryland's second congressional district and lost the general election but became a baltimore county public school teacher where he taught olympian michael phelps government, not swimming, i don't think. and travel to the olympics to the world championships with the phelps family. at the tallest licensed jock in a maricopa gerry road four times of the world's oldest and toughest timber race, the marilyn hunt cup winning the race in 2017. he was a member of the maryland aviation commission under governors o'malley and hogan. the baltimore county tourism commission and on the board of directors at the franklin square hospital, st. joseph's hospital foundation, the maryland center for history and culture, the gilman school where he was president of the alumni association, and for the past 38 years the maryland state fair and agricultural society serving as chairman for the past -- [ applause ] -- serving as chairman for the past six years until his retirement at the end of 2023. i'm sure reasonably retired from there.is the author of "self destruction" . this is

his fourth book. he previously coauthored the autobiographies of former u.s. senator joseph tydings, former governor harry hughes, and wrote a book on maryland's controversial land- use policy known as smart growth. he graduated from the college of william and mary in virginia and was honorably discharged as a first lieutenant in the u.s. army in 1971. he is a former reporter at maryland state house bureau chief for the baltimore sun and united press international and covered the virginia general assembly in richmond for upi and was an editor, reporter and photographer for the rest and times, a weekly newspaper in fairfax, virginia. he later worked on the staff of the governor of maryland at the university of maryland academic research center and is director of the smart growth office in the u.s. environmental protection agency and the obama administration. john is married to the children's book author, priscilla cummings, who is with us tonight and they have two grown children, two grandsons and two cats, who are not with us tonight.

i assume. so with that i like to pitch it over to gerry for a couple words and then back to me and then we will be off and running with these guys? >> thank you, charlie, and thank you to all of you for coming. the maryland center for history and culture is a great institution and we are so grateful that you and your team had is here for this event and they have been a delight to work with, all of them, especially debbie orloff and has been absolutely outstanding. and david. i could list them all but you have put together a great team and, debbie, thank you for everything you're doing. charlie, you and neil kicked this event off about a year and a half ago and, neil, i want to thank you for hosting the event where katie and i got to talk about it to make sure it happened and it was really wonderful. i also want to thank my assistant, who helped john with the research, shannon sheets, who's in the back. thank you for everything you did to make this book a success. [ applause ] we also have some

elected officials here, delegate , or a councilman, julian jones has for temperature of the county counsel. former baltimore county councilman, john murphy. i see you back there. delegate michelle guyton -- [ applause ] -- and someone who i served with on the house judiciary committee, delegate mary louise price. nice to see you, as well. we are so grateful that all of you are here. and i also want to thank my family for being here. they've been instrumental in this. in the front row next to priscilla, john's wife, we have my sister, danielle, my sister, jenny lee, and my nephew, rush. thank you, all, for being here. finally, i want to thank john frece. john has spent five years of his life, full time researching

and writing my father's life. and it wasn't an easy task. my father's life was all over the place, and so were john and priscilla. literally, all over the world. they went to ireland and research there they went up to new haven, connecticut, to go to the library at yale. we went to my father's prep school at st. paul's in concord, new hampshire. the work they put in was absolutely incredible. and john has written a great book so i really hope you all enjoy it. and on the last year on the campaign trail, even though not in politics, i ran into judge mike lourenco and his wife, kim, everywhere. and you are one of the first was to tell me how much you enjoyed the book and you've shared with other members of the baltimore county bench, and others in the bar association so i want to thank you all for that too. none of this would be possible if you had not done an incredible job writing the daniel brewster story so i want

you to know how grateful the entire burster family is to you, john. thank you, all. [ applause ] >> thank you, gerry. i'd like to give a few brief reflections about the book and about how i got involved in this and why am sitting up here. i got reacquainted with gerry a year ago at a fundraiser at delegate michelle guyton's house. and we had known each other casually in high school and we had a mutual interest in maryland and american political history, and of course the burster book project came up. i was intrigued and when gary told me about it i thought, it's really nice and probably a wonderful treatment of his father, his father's career and i remembered i heard in high school i remember something about ireland and that's about all i really remembered at that time. so gerry sent me a copy of the book and i read it. i read it last fall on an airplane to paris and by the

time we landed i finished it. it kept me up on the plane and what i found, really, was about research and well written account of a man who had it all in one of the things that impressed me about the book is how effectively john wolf together the personal and the professional lives of senator brewster. really, very seamlessly. so when i got back from paris i talked to gerry about and routed amazon review, which i don't do very often, and he spent more time with gerry and chatted with the john and the idea for this came up and i was asked if i would be willing to moderate and i said, of course i would be happy to. and so here we are. so, john, let me ask you. how did you come to write the story? >> first, before i answer your question, let me also add my thanks to everybody who came tonight and for everything at the center for history and

culture and to have a beautiful place like this and to have us here. that's better. okay. i don't use these things very often. i was working on a book about former u.s. senator joe tydings and tydings had a party up in harford county and i went to it and ran into a man i had known briefly when he was in the legislature, gerry brewster. but we did not know each other very well. and gerry sort of corner to me in his living room and said, when i'm done the tydings book , what i consider doing a book about his father? well, i never knew danny burster. never met him and knew very little about him. the only things i knew about him were what joe tydings said

about him because they served in the senate at the same time and joe had a way of -- how do i say this -- joe had a way of making sure that he looked really good. and, so, by comparison, danny did not look quite as good and i thought, there could not be a story there. but i told gerry that i would consider it . and when i was done the tydings book i contacted gerry and gerry sent me a copy of his senior thesis at princeton, which was, what, 560 pages? it was long. and it recounted his father's career. and it was only then that i realized all the ups and downs of his father's life, or at least many of them. and i think one of the first things i did is i wrote gerry a

letter and i said, i'm interested in doing this, but does your family really want to do this? because i was worried that i would launch into it and they would find out about it and say, no. no. no. you're not going to write about all that stuff. and gerry, at least he told me he checked with the family -- and came back and said, they are okay with you doing it. and, so, i launch into it with the directive from gerry to write the honest story about his father. and that's what i tried to do. i would say one thing too since we are at the center for maryland history and culture is that this book is about almost nothing but maryland history and culture, whether it's the horse culture of baltimore county or the history of the different kinds of elections, the civil rights battles, all of it.

it's all kind of woven together there and i think -- i feel really at home here talking about that, because i think it fits your mandate. do you want to add? >> no. that was good. >> thank you. >> i thought what we would do is go through this somewhat chronologically and touch on the high points, some of which are low points, but the most important points in senator brewster's life. i think the first really, probably, begins with world war ii, where after his freshman year at princeton, danny brewster left and enlisted in the marine corps. and i believe became the youngest combat officer in the marine corps during world war ii, if i'm correct about that. and i'd like these guys to really tell the story. i just wanted to say that the book opens with his world war ii experiences on guam and okinawa

, and they are horrific. and it's amazing he is survived. someone was looking after him. severely wounded. many men in his unit were wounded and killed and it was so compelling to me that i went running for maps of guam and okinawa because i wanted to see where he was p states to launch n of japan knew is that these islands were strategic because they were going to enable the united states to launch should that be necessary. i think those are the strategic reasons behind the action of those islands. anyway, maybe i would like you guys to talk about his world war ii experience. >> i knew less about it than you did when i started this project. i had to pull out a map and say where is okinawa? i knew it was a battle of world war ii.

i didn't know when it was or kn why it was and i didn't know its size compared to any other. it was a bigger battle than today. one reason people don't know about the battle of okinawa , it lasted for three months. one reason people don't know about it is the war two months later, the bombs were dropped in japan, the atomic bombs, and that ended the war. people came home and didn't want to talk about the war. they weren't interested in what had all happened. one of the most influential pieces of research i got, gerry gave it to me very early on was danny brewster's handwritten war diary. he talked about himself, about what it was like as a 20-year- old, what he sort of thought

his future would hold. he talked a good bit about a love affair he had with a young woman that had just collapsed and he talked about the savagery of war. in very matter-of-fact terms. you know, he talked about his platoon sergeant, while he's talking to his sergeant who he was very close with getting a mortar that essentially landed on his shoulder and blew his head off right in front of him. often i am asked about what are some of the lessons from this book? one of several is that i think the experiences of war, particularly that kind of brutal, savage, awful war

sticks with you for your entire life. it has effects on you, you the person probably don't even recognize yourself. >> i want to set the stage a little bit earlier. my father's mother grew up which they modeled after warwick castle now known as marysville school. it was 65 rooms, 17 bedrooms each with its own bath. his father grew up right around the corner at what was then called but now gramercy bed-and- breakfast. they would ride back and forth and grow up in wonderful, wonderful circumstances. wealth, privilege, opportunity. everything. he was a direct descendent of benjamin franklin, his great- grandfather was attorney general of the united states. he had everything going for

him. the japanese bombed harbor, he volunteers, becomes the ok youngest combat marine officer and goes over just to follow up on some carnage so you get an idea what it was like. on guam he's asleep in his foxhole and hears a noise. he looks up and sees a japanese soldier jumping on top of him with a knife stabbing him. he throws up his forearm and for the rest of his life he had three scars on his forearm where the knife went right through to the bone. then he's on to okinawa. he's leading his men into battle into a ravine and it was a trap. the pillboxes opened up with fire, everyone is getting shot. in that three-month battle for okinawa my father was wounded seven times. on the occasion when his platoon sergeant had his head blown off in front of him the shrapnel went through both of my father's legs blowing them 20 feet backwards. he was also crossing a river. held his rifle above his head and he's shot in the finger.

in the ravine, he's a shot in the neck, in the foot and finally he was shot in the head. if you saw downstairs the display in the room you can see his marine corps helmet. the bullet went in the back, small hole, splintered as it came out the front and his face was covered with the blood as a result of that. when you've been shot at, had grenades thrown at you, had holes put through your legs, and stabbed in a foxhole, you're going to have repercussions. un my father did throughout the rest of his life on occasion wake up screaming in the middle of the night. it certainly did impact them. >> it's understandable i think having been through all of that and the horror of that. i think the term at that time maybe was combat fatigue. i think in world war i it was called shell shock and now we know it as ptsd. who would have it having gone through all of that? it's really extraordinary.

maybe we can move on to his legislative career which began in the maryland house of delegates and house of representatives and congress and of course the six-year term as a u.s. senator. i think there are many highlights and low lights in that career. i would like to have you guys talk about that as well. >> danny brewster became known as the golden boy of maryland politics because he soared through the ranks of different levels of maryland politics. i think he was part of a post- world war ii generation that went to the maryland general assembly. i, as a reporter, covered the maryland general assembly for a lot of years. there were some parties. i think this generation that had just come back from war

probably party harder. they were just probably so glad to be home and alive. they were trying to pursue their ambition to do something for their country and from all over the state and came into minneapolis and there are stories and there are stories in the books gerry may want to tell some , of danny doing some real funny shenanigans. they were young, strong. it seemed like every step was just preordained for him. it moved almost flawlessly from the house of delegates to the congress, two terms i think in the congress and then into the senate. it was just moving right on up.

>> to follow up it was remarkable. he was elected to the house of delegates in his 20s, u.s. house in his 30s and united states senator in his 30s which is remarkable. another thing, if you told people what i'm about to tell you they wouldn't believe you. his first higher with his receptionist. nancy pelosi. her first job out of college, college graduate was to be my father's receptionist. one of her jobs was giving tours of the capital she would later preside over. his other higher right away who would actually work for him when he was in the house of representatives and then work for his campaign for the u.s. senate was steny hoyer. steny hoyer went on to be magenta the leader. you have the two most powerful people in congress, nancy pelosi, two heartbeats away from the presidency as speaker of the house and steny hoyer is

majority leader and they were on my dad's staff together at the same time. for decades to come they became great rivals, but friends. so they were both very loyal and supportive of him. he was able to get a lot of legislation accomplished and i know we will talk in a minute, john, charlie and i will have something to say about his 64 presidential primary run, but on the legislative front i want to mention two things. it was going to be like ocean city. it was danny brewster's bill, sb 20, he was the sole sponsor of and he got many of his colleagues to sponsor that created the assateague island national seashore. had it not been for danny brewster and that bill, assateague island would've looked like ocean city. that was an accomplishment he was proud of. he was also chairman of the commerce subcommittee that passed the country's first fi endangered species act before the one we know today became in effect.

from saving assateague island to the congress committee that passed the first endangered species act there were a lot of legislative accomplishments he was very proud of. >> one thing i will say is i'm not sure if this rule was put down when he was in the house or the senate, but he had a rule about gifts which was conveyed to his staff, if you can't eat it or drink it in one day don't take it. it sounded like good advice. i think that will become relevant to some of the things we will be talking about. probably the most interesting and somewhat complicated issue during your father's senate career of course was his running as a favored son in the 1964 primaries against george wallace which he did as a great favor to lbj with whom he was very close. that is quite a story. i think i understand it, but i

think it would be best if you guys can unpack it for us and tell us exactly what happened. >> in those days, president johnson -- let me back up, i'm sorry. president johnson had just become president with the assassination of president kennedy. sorry, i'm not very good with this. president johnson had just become president with the nt assassination of president kennedy and he thought it was a little unseemly for him to be seeking higher office right away. he wanted to be the president, it was never a question of that, but in his own right. he didn't want his name on the ballot. there were only a few primaries in those days, not like there are today. he asked in the states where there were primaries if a favorite son could stand in for

him, if the favorite son one o they would then say all of my delegates would go for lyndon johnson. when it came to maryland he asked danny brewster to do it. at the time, the surprise was that george wallace, the segregation list governor of alabama came in and ran in that primary. suddenly, it was brewster versus wallace at a time the civil rights bill was pending in the congress. initially, i think danny had always been in support of civil rights. after world war ii when he saw african americans fighting side-by-side with him, he came home and they were

being treated with segregation before the war he thought that was really wrong. he had a history of this. he just thought the maryland people would obviously vote against wallace. he was shocked at the treatment he got. he was spat upon, booed, his wife was threatened, her life was threatened, they had to have police outside where gerry was growing up. it was a bitter, nasty race. ultimately, danny brewster won that race and he won it by 10 percentage points. a lot of people who lived through it still think that danny didn't win that race because the initial expectation was he would swamp wallace and 10 percentage points didn't feel like enough.

>> just to add onto that, keep in mind that in 1964 as john indicated the civil rights act of 64, arguably the most significant legislation in our nations history is being filibustered in the senate. that went on for 75 days. there had been 11 attempts in our nations history to break a civil rights filibuster. not one of them was ever broken . wallace enters these primaries with the sole intent of holding up the civil rights act in 1964. president johnson did ask my father to enter that primary to run against alabama governor george wallace. that was the last of the primaries. maryland was the only one below the mason dixon line and the country was worried. the white house was worried. it was going to be tougher and closer than they perhaps thought. a lot of my father's colleagues came in to maryland and the

kennedy family, as john indicated, had just lost president kennedy. they thought it was so important the kennedy family made the decision that for the first campaign appearance since resident kennedy's assassination they were going to come into maryland and campaign for danny brewster against george wallace. in short, i want to read the statement that senator ted kennedy made on television. by the way, this race was covered on national television. george wallace and danny brewster debated on the leading talkshow at the time, issues and answers on abc news with howard k smith moderating. he was the moderator for the first kennedy nixon debate. for the night of the election, cbs national news from new york down to the old southern hotel in baltimore and reported precinct by precinct results to the nation on the brewster wallace campaign. one of the pivotal points was when the kennedy family decided to engage in maryland on this

very issue so soon after president kennedy's assassination. here's what senator ted kennedy said on that occasion. i appreciate this opportunity to speak to the people of maryland and i would like to thank all of you for watching for the many messages of sympathy you sent since last november to mrs. kennedy and her children. for the prayers you have offered on their behalf i hope all maryland democrats who voted for my brother in 1960 will vote for senator brewster in this primary. the lesson should be we should not hate, but love one another as the bible preaches. we should cast our vote and use our powers to create not conditions of oppression that lead to violence, but a climate of freedom that leads to peace. it is in that spirit and that of your own great tradition in maryland that i hope the democrats of maryland will vote

on may 19th for senator brewster. that was the kennedy families first campaign appearance. they came here to maryland, senator brewster did when and within 24 hours of marylanders, within 24 hours of marylanders voting for brewster over wallace the leadership of the u.s. senate got together, the senate senate got together, the senate with the democratic floor leader, senator dirksen said senator humphrey, the republicans will join the northern democrats and then you will have the votes necessary to break that filibuster. the deal was struck that night to break it. within 24 hours of maryland's decision to reject wallace and within a few weeks the filibuster was broken after 75 days and then within weeks president johnson signed the civil rights act in 1964 into law because of the courageous

stand that the people the state of maryland took in that race. >> thank you. well said. when you read the book you see that senator brewster ran into this reservoir of racism in maryland. i think it caught him and a lot of others by surprise and there's a number of really s. nasty and threatening letters that are in the brewster archives that john included in the book to try to portray just how ugly the situation was. how ugly the situation was. wallace by 10 points which is a pretty significant origin. wallace had not done as well. the impression was brewster really hadn't done very well and we thought he lost i think. that's just a real shame and i think certainly your father took a huge risk and it was not

good for his career i think ultimately for having made that move. >> one thing i would add, that chapter in the book about that race i call the turning point. it was a turning point for danny personally i think because i think the reaction he got really shocked him and made him question what was going on in the country, it made him question his own value as a leader and i think he even considered briefly maybe he should consider leaving politics. one of the things we will probably talk about is danny sa ended up as an alcoholic and i think what happened to him in that race really contributed to that. >> the last thing i would say on this is that wallace apparently after the maryland primary regretted he hadn't run in more northern states against

favorite sons. you mentioned alcoholism and issues with alcohol and that sadly figures very prominently in his life. i understand there is a real family history. i guess his father and other members of your family had struggled with alcoholism and, of course, as we know he eventually became quite an effective advocate for programs dealing with alcoholism and was a real leader in the state. maybe you can talk a little bit about his struggles with alcohol and how i guess maybe that was part of the perfect storm, one element that brought him down. >> there are many people that know more about alcoholism than i probably do, but i think that a problem like that doesn't happen to you overnight.

it is slow, it grows and then suddenly you're drinking too much. you can see the reasons why he possibly was drinking. there was some family history there. the reactions he must've had internally to the war, what happened and what he saw in the war. and then he was in a profession, politics, where drinking is part of what goes on. i know there's some elected er officials here today and they probably don't know what i'm talking about, but it was my experience watching politics that there was a lot of drinking, a lot of partying going on. i remember when i was doing the

joe tidings book talking about going to certain senators g office and there was a full bar in the senator's office. et it is a way of life and it can get someone before they know it. when you have the pressures of something like the wallace campaign i think you can make it worse. >> my father had a disease, alcoholism. s it really took a devastating toll on him. talking about origins, think about this, those beautiful houses in the states i talked about where my father's life started, he's living in one of those. he is the oldest of five kids, the oldest of five. he's 10 years old and his father dies of alcoholism. he becomes the man of the house at age 10. that is an enormous burden to inherit at such a young age. the experiences and the war,

the wallace campaign, that family tendency towards drinking increased and exacerbatedd and it was a tough battle for him to be. i had lunch with steny hoyer, former majority leader a few weeks ago in washington, d.c., with a bunch of his colleagues from capitol hill and steny stood up and said he wanted to say something about senator brewster. one thing steny said was danny brewster was not a bad person. he had a bad disease. it was my honor to work for him for those five years on capitol hill that i did. i would like to tell you all this, i can't say for sure that danny brewster would've been president, but i can tell you danny brewster could have been president. the devastation of alcohol was just tragic. in many ways, it's a tragedy what happened. all of us tend to think what

could've been. his road in life did it end up the way he thought it would, but he found a way to help people throughout that road. for example, after the political career ended he chaired the governor's commission on alcoholism. he chaired the governor's commission on a.i.d.s., he chaired the korean war memorial position, he served on -- he got put on the board of the national parks foundation because of what he did for assateague. he got put on the board as former members of congress and he didn't think he would be welcomed back because of all the trouble he had been through. he was welcomed back with open arms. even when life didn't turn out as he had planned, thought or wanted he found every opportunity to continue to be of service. >> this is why the last line in my amazon review reads i wish i had known him because that's

how i felt after i finished the book. a man i wish i had known. gerry, you had told me about your father's legal troubles and i read about those in the book. you had mentioned that on the nixon tapes you can hear him talking to chuck colson about how to get brewster and other senators who had been allegedly taking bribes from the catalog company in order to keep postal rates low. i listened to the tapes and you also mentioned the trump immunity decision from the supreme court mentioned at the brewster decision. i skimmed it looking for brewster, i didn't find it but i'm sure it's there somewhere. it seemed to me that your father really ran into a perfect storm during his senate career with drinking, the

primary against wallace. i know he was closely allied on vietnam. there was interparty friction and he turned on lbj when he e realized that maybe this wasn'te such a good idea. a formidable opponent emerges in charles mathias, one of his best friends and chief of staff is stealing from him. all of these things are happening. i have to say one of the things that really impressed me about the book and senator brewster is he never seemed to blame anybody but himself for his ul problems. i never read anything in the bookab where he was blaming somebody else, even the guy stealing from him. that was something that impressed me. maybe you can talk a little bit about the legal challenges he faced. >> this is another tragedy. my father is drinking too much and his administrative assistant chief of staff has a heart attack so he has to let the next guy in line takeover.

he thought this guy was pretty good stuff. he said he'd been on the olympic basketball team which turned out not to be true, but back then you did have back then you did have my father hired him to be the chief of staff, he's drinking more and more. keep in mind this is right before watergate breaks open so there are no watergate rules on campaign finances and committees and all of that. you could essentially do what you wanted. sullivan was the guys name. he was put in charge of collecting the campaign contributions and he got caught pocketing them. the federal government fbi catches him stealing campaign contributions so they say they will prosecute him. he says don't prosecute me, i gave the money to danny brewster. they go, really? he says yeah. brewster took it. there was a very ambitious prosecutor who decided that this is a good way to make a

name for himself and he ultimately ended up running for high office and the danny brewster case was the case he used. my father gets indicted for bribery, a jury of 12 after many years finds him unanimously not guilty of bribery. not guilty. however, there was a lesser charge thrown in and after six years of litigation my father paid a $10,000 fine for accepting an unlawful campaign contribution, unlawful gratuity without corrupt intent which is why the supreme court of maryland said there is no corruption. after the six years of he ends up paying a $10,000 fine and no corruption. as the case is about halfway through it went to the supreme court twice and it's about halfway through and we listen to the nixon recordings and you hear president nixon tell chuck colson that danny brewster case , maryland's u.s. senator,

let's go after him, find out who the other democratic u.s. senators are that took this do campaign contributions and he says there are republican senators that took those contributions to and also voted on that bill. nixon says, i don't give a sh about the republicans, get the democrats because what we want to do is then put the pressure on the chairman of the senate watergate committee, sam ervin, to get him to back off of the watergate investigation. the way we will get them to do it is to go after these democratic u.s. senators and lay them out the way brewster's been laid out, the way brewster is taking the hit. think about this, it's on the tape. i've heard it. president nixon in the oval office orders chuck colson to get the attorney general, the justice department and the fbi to go after democratic united states senators. they did.

you know what the real tragedy of this is on this particular legal matter? after the brewster case is over, the six years of that he went through, sullivan, his only accuser, i dropped out at gilman's school to live in a hotel in washington so i could be at the trial all day every day for weeks on end. sullivan was the only witness testified against my father. two years after the case is over , sullivan is caught stealing money from a subsequent job. he's prosecuted, he pleads guilty and he goes to jail for two years. rl we don't need the judge to tell us if you're only witness has been convicted and pled guilty to stealing money and going to jail, if that had happened two years earlier there never would've been a danny brewster case. it's just one more tragedy that happened in this patriots life.

>> when i think of danny's legal problems, one of the images that comes to mind for me and from the book is he had lost re-election in november 1968. he and his second wife were essentially estranged, but she owned a horse farm just west of dublin. so, ann, she wanted to be married to u.s. senator. she got out of there. she went back to ireland. she was a very successful trainer there. nonetheless, she went back. danny tried to get a couple of jobs and didn't. by the time he got to ireland

he was drinking very heavily. so heavily that he wasn't there a week or under a week and she had him essentially committed to a asylum of some sort to treat him for his alcoholism, it was that acute. the doctors there actually made it worse with the way they treated him. he was in the various hospital' of ireland for seven months. that is a long time. he was essentially by himself. ann didn't spend time seeing him , his family wasn't there, it was just horrible. i while he's there trying to recover from all of this in the hospitals of ireland he gets word that in maryland they've indicted him.

it's like could anything get worse? while he was still in the hospital, he tried to remember every dealing he had with jack sullivan. he had been drinking those days and he couldn't remember. it was really a very sad situation. >> i think we have five more minutes and then we will do q&a. i found a quote from the washington post, i think it was in your thesis which really i found very poignant. senator brewster was asked if he missed the senate by the reporter. he said no, i think about it sometimes. i remember it all right but i don't miss it. life goes on. as a young man i was never picking up tomorrow. with my defeat and illness i've felt only of the past. idealism turned into ambition which turned into alcoholism.

really very sort of self-aware and so maybe to finish, maybe you can talk a little bit about his final years with his third marriage and family and his productive years. we talked about a lot of his public service, but just his life as a farmer and i would also love to hear you comment maybe a little bit about how you're able to be so loyal to your father given all of his troubles and given by his own admission he was absent for much of your growing up. >> well, my father didn't live a perfect life. he was not a perfect person. he made a lot of mistakes, which he readily acknowledged. he spent the rest of his life trying to make amends for those

mistakes. trying to be helpful to others in any way that he could. his marriage to my mother didn't work out, his second marriage to ann didn't work out. finally, after several attempts at rehabilitation , he was at hidden brook in hartford county for his second or third 30 day inpatient treatment program an' he meets a very attractive blonde on kitchen duty. in treatment, you're not meant to socialize. they didn't follow that rule very well. so, danny brewster and judy got together and fell in love and they both helped each other and supported each other through their recovery for the rest of my father's life. they were married for 35 years. very happily. danielle is the oldest of those three children from that

marriage and jenny lee, both in the front row, has a twin brother, dana, who flew down from canada to deliver our father's marine corps helmet to make sure it was here for this event tonight. he lived a very happy life of service, he loved farming, he loved horses, but most of all he loved his family. as i said, he continued to be of service. i want to finish with one quick story. you mentioned matthias. matthias defeated my father for re-election. they were best friends. during law school they were during law school they were he lived with my father and his house during law school. my father was in usher at mac matthias's wedding. mac mathias is my brothers godfather. they served in legislature, in the u.s. senate and mac mathias after my father's problems continue to increase went to

danny brewster best friend and said, danny, somebody is going to beat you. it might as well be me. they continued a very friendly campaign, they had great admiration and respect for each other. after matthias defeated my father i went and worked for him with my father's blessing after i graduated from college and this is the story. think about where we are today politically in this country. my father lost. he had been a federal court, he was embarrassed, he had lost his reputation and mac mathias, on the next democratic inauguration which is jimmy carter in 1976, senator matthias calls up his old friend danny brewster who is down and out and says, danny, i want you to come back to washington. i want you to come back to the u.s. senate. i want you to march in with me side-by-side with the entire united states senate to

president carter's inauguration . my father said you are very kind, but nobody's going to want to see me after what i've done. i want to be well received. mac mathias said you're wrong. i'm asking you as a personal favor to come. my father went in spite of everything he had been through and mac mathias, a republican, walks his defeated democrat opponent side-by-side down the aisle for jimmy carter's inauguration. you don't see that today. it's too bad, we really should. >> thank you. what a fitting anecdote to end this discussion about a remarkable life for senator brewster. i would like to thank you gerry and john for participating in this conversation and i would like to think the maryland center for history and culture, katie caljean and debbie orloff and the other staff for allowing us to be in this spectacular space. one of the most beautiful spaces in the

area. with that, we would like to open the floor up to any questions you all might have. there's a microphone floating around. >> hello. as a current -- this was an incredibly enlightening conversation. i never get to ask sources this question, so to senator brewster's son, it is a two- parter. to senator brewster's son, what has it been like to have such an intimate deep dive into your familial history, particularly parts that are not so rosy? two john, what is it like to so intimately know the character

and history of a person that you'll never meet? >> excellent question, thank you for your coverage and everything you do. d we have talked about many we have talked about many one of them is when you get in trouble people remember the trouble. that's the guy that drank too much. that's the guy that had the legal trouble. that's what they remember. i always thought that was very unfair because my father did so much, you know? saving assateague island, creating a national seashore that lasts in perpetuity. being the only maryland in the history of our state to win a presidential primary, to have an instrumental role in the passage of the civil rights act of 1964. starting the careers of speaker of the house nancy pelosi, the majority leader cindy hoyer.

all those wonderful things got washed away by his troubles. perhaps that's one of the reasons why i, myself ran for the house of delegates. i wanted to make my father proud and i wanted the people of maryland to know what a good man he was and when john and i first started talking about this book i said my father's story needs to be told. we want it all told. the good the bad the ugly. none of us are perfect. we don't lead perfect lives. my father readily admitted his mistakes, so the thing i'm eternally grateful for is that john freese wrote a book about my father that's meticulously researched that provides not only great maryland history but great national history and so that story needed to be told and i'm grateful to john for telling it. >> the only thing i would add

to that is this is a man i never knew. after you spend so much time researching his life and talking to his family and talking to his friends and talking to his associates you get to the point where you almost feel like you do know him. i feel like i know him. i knew him. when i would uncover a little tidbit that didn't put him in the best light it made me a little sad. it was part of his real story. it didn't do anybody any good for me to hide it. to the extent i could put it in context, i tried to write what he was really going through. this is a political biography, but it's really the story of one man's life and how he had

terrific highs and terrific lows and then recovered from iti i think one of the real lessons of this book is that you can have some of the worst things life can throw at you. to give what happened to him in okinawa. think of his problems with alcoholism. think of being spat upon in the race against wallace. yet, come out of it at the end with your self-respect, with people who, again, admire you, recognize you are human like everybody else and they are forgiving. the people who i used to say gerry is like whack a mole with the people who keep saying danny brewster was convicted in the newspapers or somewhere

online, danny brewster was convicted of bribery, no he wasn't. gerry goes after them every time because it wasn't true. that incorrect memory carries on and it is repeated. it is damaging. so, i tried to tell the truth, but sometimes the truth was not pretty. >> i see jake raising his hand. chairman emeritus of the maryland center for history and culture and chairman of just about everything else. >> i did know danny brewster.of a guy. and always. i think it was thomas jefferson that said there is nothing so tasty as a morsel of real history.

this is real history. i mean, in all dimensions. i think it's a wonderful piece of work. i think jefferson also said ambivalence is an early sign of wisdom. i'm sure he was ambivalent about a lot of stuff. i never really talked to him about it. just out of curiosity, i've told you about the 64, 65 period of history and he was very much saying to johnson you've got to throw a lot of truths. johnson was probably listening to him, i suspect. did he ever talk about that much ? was he ambivalent at the time or not?

you see all these things now and you watch -- what is the movie about the pentagon papers? you know, various stuff in these documentaries. i'm fascinated by that piece. what is that piece of real history? >> good question. keep in mind danny brewster was a combat marine. he fought for his country and you fight it to win it. you don't fight it with one d hand tied behind your back. it wasn't my father's decision to enter vietnam. when he was in the senate we were in vietnam. he saw the troops being killed over there and didn't like it. he went over to vietnam as a colonel in the marine corps and

went to the front lines. he had to do two weeks of active duty. he went over to vietnam in the heart of the war at 1965 as a colonel and there is video of him firing artillery guns. he came back. he was also on the u.s. senate armed services committee so he was wearing two hats over there and came back and went to the white house, there's a picture of him with general westmoreland and president johnson telling him what he saw in vietnam and he supported the president. lbj was committed to the war, my father is a gung marine and said we have to give our boys everything they need or else bring them home. if we are going to have them there and the johnson administration made that decision he said we have to give them what they need. he did support the vietnam war too long and when his career was over and he had the opportunity to reflect back on the entirety of his life and his entire political career he said unequivocally the greatest

mistake that he ever made in his entire political life was supporting the vietnam war. he said we have no business over there, he said he wished u he asked more probing questions. when the resolution came up which authorized the use of massive armies and troops from the u.s. my father did take the senate floor and asked the chairman, is there anything in the tonkin resolution that will authorize the president of the united states to have a blank check to send troops to vietnam? the chairman said no, that's not contemplated. what is is that it will intimidate the enemy by giving this authority so they will surrender. it didn't intimidate, they didn't surrender and my father to the day he died regretted his support for the vietnam war. >> as an 83-year-old i'm going to go home and go to bed.

>> thank you. microphone is coming over. >> talking about the legal troubles of senator brewster to you think if he hired williams at the beginning of the troubles the disposition would've been different and the outcome would have been different? >> thank you. one of the best criminal defense attorneys in our nations history and my father unfortunately did not hire him at the outset. he hired him at the end when edward bennett williams close the case and successfully so. during the trial just one quick story, that u.s. attorney, he came to my dad's lawyers at the time, norman ramsey, tom caskey,

and they all met with the u.s. attorney and said to him when they said they were going to indict danny brewster. they said he's not guilty of this. danny brewster will take a lie detector test. danny brewster will take a lie detector test if you have sullivan take one. the u.s. attorney said no, we are not going to do that. i think that tells you everything you need to know. if he hired edward bennett williams we might've done better. s >> could you tell us a little more about his role in the passage of the civil rights act of 1964 and the act of 1965 and how his colleague in the senate for marilyn acted while he was on that how his colleagues in the senate voted on those billsb

. >> i'm glad you brought that up. think about this, danny brewster was the only united states senator -- sorry, the only democratic united states senator south of the mason dixon line that cosponsored the civil rights act of 64, the voting rights act of 65, the fair housing act of 68. there were some republicans back then that did support civil rights, but the democratic senators in the south led the filibuster. the richard russell and the strom thurmond, all of those. ma they are the one the southern democrats after the civil rights act passed they flipped over and became republicans. with regard to maryland at the time, the civil rights act of 1964 the democratic u.s. senate for maryland cosponsored it. the other u.s. senator was a republican. he supported civil

rights. maryland can be proud it's two u.s. senators in '64 both voted for the civil rights act of '64. tydings comes in and '65 and in '65 for the voting rights act of '65 , again, maryland can be proud both other u.s. senators, danny brewster and joe tydings supported the voting rights act of 1965. >> i have a question about the civil rights act of '64. if my grandfather did not get involved with that, would that be passed if he was not involved? >> that's a good question. what i can tell you is never before in our nations history had a filibuster been broken on civil rights. after your grandfather beat up and or wallace the deal was

struck within 24 hours to overcome that filibuster and brewster did defeat wallace and that was what was the impetus for the breaking of the filibuster and passage. perhaps somebody else could've done it president johnson at your grandfather to take on that role, to run in that democratic residential primary because in every single election he had been the leading vote getter. had another candidate fit in there, who knows if they would've succeeded or not. thank you for your question. >> had he lost that race against wallace that probably would've been the and of the civil rights act of '64. >> absolutely. >> i really have a question. i had a personal privilege. you and i have known each other for a while. a bit in the house of delegates. i knew you as a man of courage

and a person who will take risks. i want to thank you for taking a risk of telling this story. john, he couldn't have done it without you. as a team, you really have given maryland a gift. this book needs to be understood by more than just the people in this room. i'm glad that c-span is here. i hope this is shown in a number of other places including schools. i congratulate you for the risks you took, the courage you should phone and getting this started and done. thank you. >> thank you very much. [ applause ] >> mary louise, i've got to respond as a point of personal privilege. ladies and gentlemen, this is delegate mary louise pryce who is one of the leaders in the

house judiciary committee and i've had the honor to serve with. i want to talk about some courage you and i faced together. the bill to ban assault weapons in maryland in the 1990s came before our committee, the housen judiciary committee. i represented central and northern baltimore county, something that delegate michelle is well aware of that territory. central and northern baltimore county. delegate mary louise pryce represented hartford county. very, very conservative gun- toting hartford county. the entire bill in the state of maryland is a national forerunner to banning assault weapons. it needed two more votes. we represent tough districts. mary luis and i talked about it and the baltimore sun ran articles on it. ap how will brewster and price vote? we both decided at our own political peril, courage to you from hartford county, we both

gave the final two votes needed to pass the assault weapons ban in maryland and that was because of your courage. i thank you. [ applause ] >> i think that's the perfect exchange of which we should end. i want to thank you all again and hope you will adjourn downstairs to the lobby and buy a book. john will happily ascribe it for you and you may not purchase any other book including one of mine until you bought john's. thank you very much. >> thank you. we appreciate you coming. [ applause ] >> since 1979, in partnership with the cable industry c-span has provided complete coverage of the halls of congress from the house and senate floors to

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