and do we get in any competition with the un our foreign aid program. no, there's no competition and of course, the united nations has a technical assistance. and i've just to africa, by the way, to visit and that that works side by side with the u.s. bilateral. appreciate you on for this final question been doing a magnificent job and your brother had a large family going back into. no i don't expect to. ladies and gentlemen, our guest today has been ambassador henry cabot lodge, the states representative on thenow we goid

we are going to hear from alicia cole is a social historian, professional with over 30 years of experience with the public, private and government own museums and societies. she's worked as a consultant with the missouri council and the smithsonian institute nation's museums on main street program. her areas of research, women's history and masonic and templar history. american and british history of the 19th century.

cole has been a regular presenter for the mid-continent library, as well as civic social and masonic organizations. her talk today is petticoat warriors. women played important roles, the american civil war on and off the battlefield. they fulfilled traditional and expanded domestic tasks on the home front. others took on completely new responsibility as entering the male sphere to create new possibilities and forever altered the world for women. thank you alisha cole. thank you. this is going to be a completely different topic a completely different approach than. what our previous presenter talked about. so, i mean, making sure i've got the right button here. all right. so we're going to start by talking a little bit about what we're mean by, the word sphere,

what can get it with the coming of the industrial rivals in the late 18th century. families moved off the farm. they abandoned their rural life and moved into the cities. and with that became a world. the men were charged being out in the world making living for the entire family. suddenly the of the family changed dramatically. i can remember stories of my father up on a farm talking about how what his mother did and what he and his brothers did on that farm. and my would brag about how my grandmother could pick more cotton in a day than his brothers could. but when the industrial revolution started urging people out of the farms and into the

cities, suddenly women did not have the same role. they didn't need to pick cotton like my grandmother did. suddenly their role was all domestic in the home and were they going to do. so you can see here kind of a breakdown of some of it. but what it came to is that the home became, the entire center of the female universe universe with that came the idea that a woman was responsible. everything related to the home. now, think about this. that meant she had to know what kind of material was great for. the roof on her house or how the farm place weren't as well. taking care of her children. but society really put new roles on them as. they became for being the center

of piety in society. and this is a description of that. a little different than it is now. she was a source of purity in society and in the home. women were supposed to be submissive to men especially the male members of their household. and her function in life to take care of everything related to

that home domesticity her life. but what does this mean when the world starts turning upside down? when suddenly the in your home is no longer there because? he's off at war. it's. some of the women responding to that. like aveling cousins did in louis. she took on the role of making that all the men were properly outfitted and cared for. she was one of the early proponents of the sanitation work, became the sanitary commission's. she helped found the union aid society in st louis. they food, clothing they

provided medical as well as medicines and things like socks for the soldiers that were fighting. but ms. cousins went one step further, ms. cousins went with them when they traveled. if you notice, it says she was wounded vicksburg. she was actually on the field taking of soldiers and was shot years later is sadly something that happened repeated lead to women who took roles of outside their sphere during the battles. she did not have a male person. she had found it very difficult to make a living. and in her later years was starving and homeless. she needed help. and she sought out government support because technically she was a person who was wounded in

battle, helping the union army. and they actually awarded her a pension because as her supervisor said, with the sanitary commission, she worked from the battle of wilson's creek until the war was over. she was with this the whole time. another fascinating person is this woman, virginia minor. she and her cousin and then husband also named lastname minor, grew up in. after he graduated from law school. they moved to mississippi, then came up the river and settled in st louis, where they had family, they had a oh, shall we call a plantation. they had a very lovely home and a lot of acreage and they had lots of wonderful crops on their

farm. when the battle broke out, she went into the city and said how can i help? and she went to work with miss cousins with the aid society. and one of the things that she and her did is that they provided all kinds of fresh fruits and vegetables and meat off their property as long as they had made to the soldiers need in st louis. one of the things that happened to virginia is because of her position. she was able to see all the different roles women were taking on at that time during the war. and as the war was waning, the was on the wall probably won't be much longer. she thought about all the roles that women had on and decided hmm. i think women need to be considered to men and stop being

subservient. we'll talk a little bit more about as we go. but one of the things that these wonderful women did is that they organized sanity. rivers. now, i know that seems kind of odd, but there's basically think of it as like a craft festival and a bazaar and a farmer's market all rolled into one. sometimes were multi-day celebrations, all kinds of entertainment. but bottom line is they, were fundraisers. they were used to provide funds to support the soldiers who were in need. if you want to think about one, an action one that always comes to mind. the bazaar in gone with the wind, where they had the dance and everything that is of like that, only this one was these would be downstairs kids

compared to the one in atlanta. here's one in saint louis. it was definitely a multi-day celebration of all kinds of crafts. people would spend months putting things together that they would put on all kinds of domestic crafts. it was wonderful, wonderful and all of that wonderful money that they raised went the sanitary commissions. they bought medicine. they bought supplies for the soldiers. you know, i keep talking about socks. but that was one of the things they wanted the most. socks. and they would have medical supplies that they can when they got wounded, bandages and things like that. those were provided by sanitary commission. but what if you don't have access to some of these things and other role that women play? it kind using of their feminine

wiles and. talents, shall we say, they did all kinds of sneaky things to help their men in blue or gray. hey, this is a picture. some of the female smut ers. and we'll talk a little about what they do. we'll also talk about people like this woman, antonia ford. she was a spy. i think about what i was saying earlier about the four things that a woman supposed to be submissive, domestic, pious pious, don't you think those would be great skills to be able to sneak around. when antonia ford was young she

was living in virginia and her father lived there. family between washington, d.c. and manassas, virginia. and her father being a very hospitable southerner opened his home so people could come and stay. antonia used it as an opportune to kind of find out what things were going on and shared that information. sadly, she caught because they by process elimination they said this information was only shared in this at this time and the only people who could possibly have known this was mr. ford and his daughter. so they arrested her along with some of the other people and put her in prison in the infamous old capitol prison d.c. she

didn't have too bad of a time. when her captors took a shine to her. his name was willard, the heir to the willard hotel, d.c. and eventually she was released. and surprisingly they got married and lived happily ever after at the willard hotel when some of the people who had testified her were practically their deathbed, said she had nothing to do with. so nobody's quite sure whether she did or didn't, because remember women are supposed to be pious and they're supposed to be domestic and. another person. this category is pauline.

she was a very talented actress who also used her wiles to assist her spying activities. she was pretty much more of an official spy. i mean, they the union army asked for her help and and so she would go out into southern states and find out information and then relay it back. well, she was on of her many missions. going about her task. and noticed that one of the men in the camp where she was. had fortification plans and had the opportunity to steal them. so she did. and they got her. she escaped. they caught her again.

they her on trial. she was and they were going hang her. notice i said, going to hang her, the poor darling caught typhoid fever and the authorities decided it was not very kind to execute someone who sick. so they decided to wait until she was well from typhoid fever before they would go through with the execution. well, by the time she well, again, the north had come into the area and taken it over and she was released sadly, like of the women who did all these wonderful things as she got older, she didn't have lot of money. she was suffering as many people do. they get older with arthritis,

other complications and was in a great deal of pain and overdosed. the morphine that she was using to trade her discomfort. now, i bet everybody in the rooms heard of this woman. because she was probably the most renowned spy of, the for the southern cause at the time. i bore you with a lot of her exploits will just tell you that one of the coolest things i thought about her is the fact that when she actually was put into the prison in d.c., they said she was a horrible prisoner. she would sing dixie the time. she would find a way to take the confederate flag and wave it out the window of her cell. i can only imagine. they were very glad to get rid of her and any possible moment. and they. evacuated her south, got her out

of the area and they told us, you cannot come back. no, no, you can't come back. so she left and went to england instead. and and while she was there, she wrote all of her memoirs about all of her wonderful exploitations, all of her adventures as spy. i see, i think the title of it was bell boyd camp and prison in camp in prison. so you can but they say that is greatly exaggerated. is it. or are discounting it because she's supposed to be pious domestic woman. also what she was saying, glenn she became an actress and her last husband, meaning she had several her last husband was 17 years her junior. okay. and we can't forget the

wonderful harriet tubman who used all her talents and abilities that she had for helping escapes helping slaves escape. she also them to the benefit of the union army, and she even had troops of her own that she was the commander of. a wonderful talented individual. okay. so let's talk about somebody who did something funny. missouri anybody ever heard of this? lucy nicholson well, i'm not really surprised that it's not a name that rings bell because there's not an awful known about her. but they do know one of the things she did apparently when general was here in missouri. early in the war, was in great, great need of help.

he wounded soldiers. they need bandages. they needed medicine and they were out and there was no way to get any. he sent a runner of sorts to lucy's house and, said this is what the general needs. he said, okay. so her fortunately for her, her brother had a store that how are all the medical supplies that were needed. so she goes to her brother and she says general price needs morphine, he needs quinine. he bandages, he says, well, i've got him, but i can't sell them to you. i can't give them to you. but i have to go into into town. in a few minutes. so he left. she took it all. she went to a general store nearby and bought lots of velvet

and lots of gravely. and went home. hmm. what a weird combination and she took the flannel, turned it into a skirt. now i want you to think about this for a minute. okay. women in this time are wearing voluminous skirts. lots of petticoats or hoop underneath them. she created this flannel skirt to hold the bandages and socks. the men needed balls, some stick, some in the pockets that created on the inside and in the folds that the skirt she took the velvet cut. it strips and rolled into her hair, the medicine into, big rolls of the velvet because that

was the fashion at the time. so she's got these big rolls on top of her head and behind head of all of this medicine so she could smuggle and into price's camp to help them in very creative. but once again, using her abilities as, the domestic to help the soldiers. now we have some women who did a little bit beyond the more domestic sphere of things. and when you think about battles, usually think about nurses, right the nurses really became more of a household after the crimean war and the work that florence nightingale did. but in america to remember the part about the fallen women on the slide, nurses to the most

part in america were considered fallen women because you see for a woman to put herself a position where she's seeing a male person who is not part of her in any state of undress or close to them as some of you are in this room close to members of the opposite sex that would constitute your being a fallen woman because you're talking to somebody who you're not introduced to and so lots of lots of queries here for fortunately you have this pioneer and pioneering elizabeth blackwell she didn't want to be a nurse. she wanted to be a doctor. her entrance into geneva medical college was done as a joke.

if you weren't aware of that. she applied to medical school. the men in charge couldn't, in their good conscience tell her not to come. so they got an assembly of all the men, the school together. and they said. gentlemen, we have this piece of an application here from this miss elizabeth blackwell. she wants to come to school here. what do you think? and they go, yes, yes, yes. please send. her on. so she came. now, what was great for the professors about being there is is suddenly the men were very whenever she was in the classroom with them but they didn't quite know what do with her because she wasn't allowed to help people in the hospital because for the same reason she can't be men to whom she is doesn't have a faint familial relationship.

so they they let her work on women and children instead. so she still got skills. when the war broke out. so that something has to be done here. we need help. the medical profession is going to need help. so she offered to train women to be nurses. so they were getting the top notch information and guidance as to how they should treat soldiers. she's also the one who said we need supplies and we need a way of getting the supplies and getting them to the soldiers. so she's the one who basically founded the sanitary idea. unfortunately yes, a lot of it. she didn't get any credit for. one of her heroes was clara. clara barton was another one who went out into the fields to help you see her dress. can you imagine trying to be on

a battlefield in an outfit like that. it was very, very difficult for women to be a nurse on the on the field. talk about that. one of the things that came out of the commissions and the hospitals was in order to be a nurse, you had to over the age of 30 and very looking better that you'd be a widow so you don't have, you know, really any domestic responsibilities at home because heaven forbid, should you be 20 and gorgeous because know you wouldn't be able to get anything done. the men be flirting with you all the time. one of the women who came down to washington, d.c. to serve a nurse was, the famous author, louisa may alcott. her father had, four daughters. if you didn't remember that from little women. and she bad that they didn't have a man, the family to send off to war.

so she did her bit by becoming a nurse. unfortunately, typhoid was a thing that was really flying around then. and she caught typhoid. she wasn't able to serve more than about a year, and then she had to go home. okay, i'm going to bore you for a minute. this is hero. this is mary edwards. walker. she went to the women's college in pennsylvania. very very well-educated talented young woman. she was briefly married. and divorced. her husband. and when the war war broke out, she went knocking on the door of the union army and said, here i am. don't you want to use me? and they said, nope. eventually they did take her as a volunteer. and primarily, she spent the war

helping civilians in the south, like helping women deliver, babies and people in need during the civilian end of the war. but look at her outfit, guys. yes, that comes from somewhere from amelia bloomer, who was the editor of newspaper who popular eyes the idea of a woman not wearing 25 pounds worth of clothes that went out four acres on either side of her. that had a corset. i mean, doctor walker complaint, she says, i can't get close to my patients in this and think about far you stick out in a hoop and you're trying to help a patient you can't get close to them. so she came with a variation on the bloomer outfit. now, to me you'll see outfits a

little later on that i think are much better idea of calling it than one. but you'll notice if you're very closely looking, you see the badge on her outfit. do you know what it is? it's the medal of honor. she is the only woman in, the history of the united states, to get the medal of honor. they tried. take it away from her when they did the big reassessment of all the medals. i think a polite way of saying it is over my dead body was kind of her reaction to it. she reviews she wore it every day after she received it. and fortunately, carter reinstated it. so to this day, she is still the only woman to get the medal of honor. she was captured captured by the

southerners, and she was put into the a very unfortunate place, sadly, the confederates are not saying that any is fine. okay. but the southerners had the worst time with having good food and prison facilities for their in camp. but in camp. the people and unfortunately with the deprivations that she she actually had difficulties with them for the rest of her life from her time prison. she wasn't in prison very long, mainly because the warden didn't like her. you know how the deal with bell boyd in her fund flags when she was in prison. dr. refused to wear women's clothing. she was bound and determined, was going to wear her uniform,

that she had created so. as soon as the opportunity arose, they traded her for another prisoner on the other side, who i was told was a haven for higher rank than she was. but. it gave her time to on her life and the role of women. and if you ever get a chance to read her books, she has ideas in the seventies that she would swear to betty friedan wrote wrote. okay. the confederate also had their female physicians. this is dr. andrews. she came from a household where the father was very supportive of her, an education, and provided her with wonderful, sent her north georgia to have a

greater education. and when she came, she's i want to go to medical school. and her father said, okay. so they sent her the female medical college in pennsylvania, where dr. had gone. she a great education, but i don't think she felt very comfortable. she never stuck out her shingle, but she was wonderful at caring for her patients from what they say. she actually went with an uncle and worked in the hospice roles overseas like in india to help people in need over there. i think that's probably where honed a lot of her skills and when the war broke out, like dr. walker, she sent off her letters and said, i am if you need me. well, they rejected her at first until after first battle of bull

run. and they said, we're in trouble. we've got to have help. and they sent her a note and said, come. and so she did. all right. now, do you see similarities between this outfit, what dr. walker was wearing. the volunteer years were a group of. the idea of them comes from france. basically as you can imagine, you see the little canteen that she's wearing. original. they would go out into french battlefields and sell alcohol to soldiers and care for them. well it became a thing in the civil war. and these were women who actually traveled with the troops. they carried bandages or alcohol of course. and helped. when need was there and.

one of the most famous is the is french mary to pay. she's actually france and she's pictured right here on the top right and a picture her on the battlefield below. now there were some women who content to just be there to help. some of them wanted to fight. now there's lots of controversy about how many or if any. there were actually women who pretended to be men and fought. now, a lot them fought, or at least from the records i found. if they did, were fighting alongside a spouse or a brother. i think that probably helps them to be in disguise. but supposedly miss clayton here fought about 18 battles until her spouse killed and then

confessed that she was a woman. and surprisingly, they said. she fought very long and hard to even get a pension for herself and for her husband after the war. and there's no records as to whether or not she did or she didn't was successful in that attempt. but there's there is that she wasn't alone. so we've women who have taken from directly from their domestic sphere. we've got women who have kind skirted that a little bit. got women who've actually gone into male sphere and done things. and then we have women who actually became men in order to fight. and then we have little delightful things like this that i just had to include little. corbin was five years old.

she was living with her family not from fredericksburg and her land and their plantation. they lived on became where stonewall jackson has men went and he went set up his headquarters there and her family provided a building on the property, him to have his headquarters. and he and his officers took a shine to her. apparently she was quite an absolute delight. he would invite her breakfast to come down to his office, his headquarters and. she would sit on the floor in his office and play with her dolls and play with her toys. she even made paper dolls and a big, long line and called them her stonewall of his troops. sadly, it was time for the soldiers to move on. she and her brothers and sisters

caught scarlet fever and, even though general jackson left his medical team to help, she died. there was some women who would not give up their domestic sphere responsibilities, but they did not follow their as a soldier. they followed their husband as his wife once said. is fanny gordon. now? i don't if the name john brown gordon rings a bell for. any of you in this room. he became robert e lee, second in command. he was the one who was leading the troops. the last the army of the northern virginia. the last battle before lee surrendered to grant. and they were there at appomattox court house.

mrs. gordon being there to help her husband. now, granted, we're not saying she out there on the battlefield with him when he was fighting, when the fighting was about to start, sent her to the rear to get her out of harm's way. but there were time and time again where he would be wounded and she went to care him. in fact, after one battle, it took him over seven months to recover. and she's the one who stayed by his caring for him. in fact, one of his wounds had become so serious infected that the doctors told her that the only way he was going to survive is that he would have to have paint the wound with iodine and stayed by his side painting that wound over and over and, over again. save the limb, saved his life. now we'll briefly about some

women who were left. anybody besides the local people know who this person is. okay. there's got to be in this room. who knows who this woman is. but the news is quite it's upton, his wife. margaret, what's hayes now. it's not. she wasn't in a battle. she wasn't a person who was out there in the battlefield. she was a woman who was left on the home front with her children and had to live through the bleeding kansas era when there was all this ugly going back and forth between people on the kansas side, the missouri side, and they were who it seems like their favorite pastime was stealing stuff and burning things. and this poor woman over, over again had her home ransacked.

things stolen from her food animal, clothes, clothing. you name it. they stole it. and then they burned the roof over her head. and unfortunately, husband had enough of it got together with some of his community and they formed a brigade. and they went off to war, leaving her alone to deal with the children and all of the stealing and the burning. he died early in the war, leaving her again alone, dealing with all the. and when order 11 was issued, she had to leave the area. and i think one of the hardest things for her was that. there was so much suspicion in terms of, okay, are you as southern sympathizer or are you

a union sympathizer? and if i hang with you and wrong side comes along, they're going to treat me. they would you. and suddenly my house is going to get burned. and so people who were her friends said, bye bye because they did not want to be associated. the burning and the stealing. another person you might have heard who also shared through letters and, other means of communication, like diaries, is julia lovejoy. but she went one step further. her husband was a missionary. they came with the new england immigrant to kansas. so they were in the early years, the bleeding kansas years before, the war. she wrote letters back and articles and sent them back to

new england, telling them all about the ugliest stuff that was happening here. yeah. and i make a big point of saying that because as journalism, that's in the mail sphere, women aren't to be doing that. okay. this is as per supposedly a of the family of buddy bill anderson with his sisters who were caught up in one of the rounds where they were they actually started imprisoning the family members of people that they knew were doing naughty things and put them in jail. and one of the jails in kansas city was a union prison. it belonged to george bingham, the painter who had used the floor as a studio of his. there's multiple stories as to

what happened, but bottom line is, the structure was compromised and afternoon it collapsed with a lot of people inside and some of those were the sisters and cousins of, william quantrill and bloody ville anderson. and so they weren't very happy because once again, this women in their eyes were doing nothing wrong wrong, even though they were probably outfitting like smugglers and this kind of thing, making sure and helping with food and things for the who are part the guerillas in missouri according them they weren't. they were just going to the store they were just staying home taking of the house, take care of the crops crops. they were imprisoned imprisoned. so the man got together and decided, well, this cannot go unanswered.

once what happened to. so they care of lawrence. but interestingly, they killed like 150 some men and boys. they didn't a hair on a head of a woman. following that pious domestic role. then there were some things women were desperately needed. can i never really thought about this? do you know that until they had a machine to do it dollar bills, had to be individual signs and they had cut out the bills. well, when the war broke out, all the in the treasury department went to war. suddenly the united states government had no way to get the money. so they started hiring women and women could cut. what a surprise. so they were they got wonderful

paying jobs. not as good as the men, but they got paying jobs to cut apart the printed bills. now, this is probably not one that you are familiar with, vinnie ream went to what, now? columbia college as very, very young girl. she was like ten, 11 years old. she was part had an artistic bent. her father her into art program and that was being offered by christian. and she was noticed by the eventual president of the university of missouri of what a great talent she was. and when she and her family moved to d.c., just as the was beginning, he helped get into sculpting program in d.c. and as one of her projects, he helped

her get a permission with abraham lincoln. and he sat for five months for her to come in and sculpt the best of him. and she finished it the day before he was assassinated. she was interred that passed into a competition that the government had for a statue of president lincoln, and she won. and but when the it was totally finished and unveiled, she was 23. totally entering the male. here is mrs. you know the colt revolvers huge lee wealthy family when he died suddenly and rather unexpectedly the controlling interest in the munitions went to her along with a very sizable fortune. and so she ran it very

successfully until the turn of the century. now one of the things that i want share with you is kind of like what all these things that we're talking about resulted in. now, these are the 13th in the 14th that led to the 15th amendment. but one of the critical parts of this is the 14th amendment. the part saying citizens, the came up is who are citizens. are they men? are they women? are they persons of color? are they only white men? remember virginia minor. the lady i you who was began to see that women to be equal from all the things that they were doing. she and some of the other women decided we're going test this.

we think that not only should we be fighting for the abolition of slavery, we need to be fighting the abolition of women and 14th amendment should include both men and women. susan b lived off and in kansas in the war years. her brothers had two brothers who lived in kansas. one was the manager of a newspaper in leavenworth and. she would share her ideas about the fact that women should be equal. i put a sunflower here in this slide with her. i don't know how familiar you are with the colors of the suffrage movement, but in america they replace the purple that was used in england along the green and the white with yellow and. it comes from the kansas

sunflower. so back basically to the two women we started with, virginia minor and her daughter, phoebe cousins. now, phoebe had the that she went to law school totally entering the male sphere. to help with the fight for women to gain their rights and the ability to vote. virginia and her husband who happened to be a lawyer, decided that they were going to test the 14th amendment and, said that that citizens part it included them, meaning women. women had the right vote. so i think it was the election of 1870. she went down to register her in saint louis. they laughed at her they laugh at her. what do you.

a woman can't vote. good grief. what are you thinking? so she. and her husband went down the street and sued the registrar for not letting her register. it went all the way to the supreme court. if the supreme court sided in virginia's favor, women have gotten the right to vote in america a lot earlier than they actually did. but i kind of think the supreme court at it, kind of like the registrar. no, we're not giving you the right to vote. that that does not constitute your citizenship. you are not only they may be of color, but only men are citizens. some people say that the true america, the revolution didn't really start until 1920 because

of that. i just thought that was kind of interesting. but this is a map where we were at one point and you can see kansas. kansas, one of the places that led the way. and a lot of it is because of the women been talking about these women who stepped by pushing the bounds of their domestic sphere and by completely stepping out of them. they were able to prove to themselves to their family and to the world that women can do. than taking care of the house. thank you. do you have any questions and they want you to use the mic. if you have any questions. i know you all want eat lunch.

i have done much on the the sisters of charity who did a lot of nursing during the civil war. i have not. not because of a lack wanting to. it's more of a lack of time. yes, ma'am. i have done superficial research in jackson county's census for 1860. okay. and there are a small number of people like mrs. hayes. right who are listed as farm managers. the census was taken june 1860. the men on the trail, the women managed the farms. right. and they had those skills. now, in western the western states granted, the franchise much earlier.

that's right. because a women's necessity city to the development of the west. however it was recognized. it was recognized. however, being raised, grandparents who were raised by their agrarian parents, the rock stars, the women, the young girls imagine and were european. and to even see one was like walking the room with john lennon right? this happened in. 1923 when the queen of somewhere was at the dedication of the liberty memorial. and grandma could not remember anything except seeing the queen. right. the other was mary beecher. yes. who wrote? well, what were we really her for? is she switched the fork from

the left hand or the right so people would eat more slowly. but she was. considered perhaps a widow because her fiance drowned on the way to study in europe. but she wrote. about home economics, how to manage sanity aurelie of farm or sanatorium terribly. your house. but there were other publications by man and i presume because they took the tack of farm journal which we have today was recipes and children's material that women were much more influential. now we think probably because of leftovers and starched underwear. i agree. i'll let you in on a little secret. my first thesis topic was on

domestic manuals of the 19th century and how they trapped women in home forever. so yes, they were highly influenced. yes. well, hi. very information. thank you. do you have books published on and can they be found? not that i've written? there that there are a number of books on subject. i was hoping to one from you. well, aren't you, sweetie. thank you for saying that. anything else? well, thank you for listening.