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[general chatter] >> good morning, everyone. hopefully, you are all on your way to being fully caffeinated and settled in. it is really a treat to be back here at iri. welcome to advancing democracy, a fireside chat, with the really us -- terrific assistant secretary. my name is jenna and yehuda, the executive vice president at the atlantic council down the road. i would really like to extend my

tremendous thanks to the executive vice president, patrick quirk, scott mastic and their colleagues and all of you here at the international republican institute for hosting us this morning and to our audience for joining us. we are confident today's discussion will provide important insights into the future of u.s. strategy and leadership in the pursuit of democracy across the globe, especially under such trying circumstances. the atlantic council's mission is to shape the global future together with partners and allies and essential to that mission is the freedom and prosperity center that we have. with its permission of promoting poor and marginalized around the world. like so many around the world, we believe the best way to defend freedom and democracy is to share the evidence of its

benefits. it shows that democracy and the rule of law are essential ingredients. this is an unbiased fact-based argument. much of the center's research focuses on the promoting the democratic institutions. iri has been a key collaborator launching state of the parties analyzing multiparty systems around the region. this research and the conversation we will have here today is much needed. the 20 funding for -- 2024 launch last year and shows a

concerning trend. democracy continues to be in decline. political freedom has plummeted to a 24 year low, driven by a worldwide curtailment of civil liberties, restrictions on freedom of expression and information and a decrease in the number of free and fair elections. data from the indices shows this decline is not specific to one region, but is truly present throughout the world, including in north america and western europe. in this context, nearly 50% of the world's population has already cast or will cast a ballot in a national election this year. the largest number in history. with authoritarian trends on the rise, democracy is still really on the line in many of these cases. this year has shown us all sides of the spectrum, from peaceful and fair elections in taiwan and south africa, to an authoritarian leader refusing to

release a stranglehold on power in venezuela. with the u.s. and a critical election year, it is more important than ever to support democracy at home and abroad. the bureau of democracy lays a crucial role in america's efforts to promote freedom, democracy around the globe. i'm especially delighted to introduce the bureaus newly and finally confirmed, my friend, dauphin aranda. assistant secretary rand brings a wealth of experience serving in numerous roles in the state department. this might be our fifth or sixth time back in the department. each time getting online gets a little bit easier. the select committee on intelligence and the center for american security. she is also an academic, holding a doctorate in political science

from columbia and authoring numerous books on international security and democratic reform. when week ago, she was appointed by the white house to serve on the committee of security and cooperation in europe, bringing her diplomatic skills and expertise to promote freedoms across the region at a time of tremendously increasing importance. together, we also have the vice president of strategy, innovation and impact at iri. he serves as a nonresident senior fellow for the freedom and prosperity center. lots of points of intersection. patrick has been in your -- instrumental in helping to develop the research and programming on freedom and democracy. this year alone, he has co-authored five reports for the council, offering a variety of concrete policy initiatives for the u.s. government to promote democracy abroad. he cocreated our state of the parties paper series and collaborated with the council on three events featuring some of

washington's top democracy experts. patrick and secretary rand, thank you for joining us and we look forward to hearing your thoughts and expertise. it's a real pleasure. the floors yours. patrick: thank you so much, jenna. [applause] thank you all for being here. thank you again, assistant secretary rand, for joining us. it is really wonderful to have someone at the helm of this critical area. you are roughly two months into the new role. i thought i would start by asking you to lay out the administration's democracy plans to support it overseas. asst. sec. rand: first of all, i should just say thank you so much for that warm and generous introduction, jenna. it is so compelling, what you are doing in terms of amassing the evidence of impact, both of democratic norms and process and governance.

and that is both contested obviously all over the world, but it is also very important in u.s. policy to show be in the democratic peace theory, which may be outdated, what are the benefits in terms of the economic benefits, global governance benefits, and international security benefits in the world where democracies are allies and collaborating? i think it is a many decades long partnership. in particular which is close to my heart, thank you for having the vision to turn to iri. to your questions, one of the

main roles in taking the helm is to reflect president biden and the administration's priorities and to make the case for why we are in this geopolitical contest. there was a clear emphasis and may be a first time emphasis a return to the competition. it is a fact facing america. among other threats and opportunities. i commended to all of you. what are we competing about? what is the clash of ideas between us and russia and the prc? adding to the blown -- flash to

the bones. but most importantly as a diplomat. this is not competition for competition sake. this is not to be a winner. the clash in the marketplace, there are countries shopping around. about whether it is better to govern through authoritarianism that might makes right as its main approach, but also secures the power, the patronage and economic resources out representing the one model that we do not believe in the united states government is the right model.

it does not align with democratic values. it has not been repeatedly agreed upon in the u.s. charter and many other international conventions. this is a reflection of universal rights and considerations that go back to 1925. we are competing over this vision that we think supports people in the world and to achieve opportunities and ultimately allows for greater stability, economic prosperity, and international security. we believe fundamentally democratic governance, it might not be ideal. it might have a lot of pickups. it might be the least bad of all the other options.

when we compete with the prc, when we are trying to shore up examples of why we believe the united states and our allies including in the transatlantic alliance, it is not because of this hubris, it is not because of the american empire, it is about this clash of ideas being contested every day. i should say finally and this is all very theoretical, i will say finally this is not a competition that the united states and our allies asked for. there is a revisionism among the autocrats in the world, there is a bandwagonnig among the authoritarians to impose their visions on others. this is not an imperial democracy promotion. this is standing up for what we

believe of in the face of aggression and the imposition of a prc authoritarian order in other places that we think is deeply destabilizing. patrick: thanks for that, assistant secretary rand. let's unpack those priorities starting with challenges. what do you see is the most potent threats to democracy overseas and why does addressing those benefit the u.s. taxpayer? asst. sec. rand: there are so many answers here, but let me start with a few examples. i gave you the big theory and now we will bring it down to real foreign policy, the kind of practical foreign policy that we grapple with and grapple is the right word because we don't think we have all the answers. foreign policy is a debate and we are constantly debating the right approach. we believe some of the greatest threats come again from this revisionist authoritarian model. i will give you a few examples. the prc has pioneered and others

have followed a practice of transnational repression. this idea that not only do they go after dissidents and political oppositions and journalists and bloggers and civil society within the prc, but they are now emboldened to go after dissidents and chinese nationals and those who have been exiled or fled or even academics outside their borders. this is extremely dangerous to the american taxpayer. this means that the united states is fair game. again, because there is a modeling and a copycat effect, others including russia and other authoritarian systems are learning that bordet mean a sovereign right to security. you can go after dissidents with no accountability essentially and with no problem in europe, in the united states, and latin america. this is very dangerous. this is a world where security

is not confined to the nationstate and where threats are transnational and it is deeply scary. that is a very real, practical implication for american security. now the taxpayers really should care about this not just for security reasons, but also because americans want to live in a world where they can trade, do business, go to school, travel all over the world. we think about america, america is inherently an international society read we vacillate between isolationism and international-ism. we have gone back and forth, so this is not new, but really the vacillation is at the very top. if you go around america, people are proud of their peace corps experiences, their missions abroad, their travel abroad, their immigrant roots. we are deeply international in our mindset. to have a world where it is not safe for your kids to study

abroad, it is not safe for your kids to do business, where the rules of interdependence are being distorted is essentially not a good for americans prosperity, for american safety, and for the manifestation representation of what america stands for. i can go on and on, but this transnational repression is something incredibly dangerous and urgent. patrick: let's dig in a bit more to the various ways in which the ccp is destabilizing democracy around the world. research has shown that the prc is it working to undermine democracies around the globe. you nicely articulated what drl's view is in ways in which the prc as a threat to democracy. can you elaborate how are they colluding with the kremlin, which is now also well documented?

how does that exacerbate this challenge? asst. sec. rand: right, this alliance formation around autocrats i mentioned is deeply worrisome and it is manifesting right now in the ccp's alliance of convenience. a transactional relationship between the prc and the kremlin. the ccp is offering manufacturing industrial help to russia that essentially helps the defense sector and the defense industrial base in russia, which then indirectly or directly helps the war machine. we and our allies and much of the world have stood up and said it was unacceptable for russia to invade ukraine in a gross violation in february 2022. defending the u.n. charter, defending the ideals of sovereignty, defending the notion of democracy.

as its people have expressed and desired. this cooperation of russia's war machine and their continuing ability to fight in ukraine is deeply worrisome. that is one example. i want to talk a little bit about russia and what they are doing. it's model of de-democratization and promotion of authoritarianism is different in flavor from the ccp. it is very self-interested in many ways and what it is trying to do. it needs its economic engines to continue to turn. i don't want to diminish or suggest that it is a different model. russia in the past couple years has made the policy decision to actively try to overturn and

upset democratically elected governments and is going after some of the most fragile ones. here there is a playbook, which russia sees and there is really an internal domestic fight between ruling elites and tries really hard to upset that democratic contestation. i want to talk a bit about georgia because that is really alarming where after 12 years we have a very contested election on october 26 and we see this play out in terms of russia trying very hard to support this party essentially copycatting what russia has done domestically by passing a foreign agents law that limits civil society, limits the ability for the expression of alternative ideas to the ruling

party. it is critical for healthy elections. with these elections starting around january or february, russia and the georgia regime have tried to repress. we in the state department responded by holding accountable those who have conceded the idea of the foreign agents law. besides holding those who are autocrats within the system accountable. we are deeply worried about these elections because they are only fair if there can be a free contestation.

the problem is they have limited the ability of the people of georgia to express their desire. meanwhile, back to the point of the connectivity between what happens to mystically and what happened -- domestically and what happens in a more theoretical framework of international relations, 80% of the georgian people are aspiring toward greater eu inclinations. the limitations and the involvement is bringing the people back to its orbit. i think you get worried and the government is watching at the highest levels.

patrick: you have laid out compellingly with the suite of challenges is to democracy. let's switch to what drl is and will do. we also have finite resources to do something about them. with this constraint in mind, how are you directing the teams to support civil society, legislatures. drl has skewed funding toward supporting civil society and advocacy. and away from civil society? asst. sec. rand: i'm glad you have asked this question because back to our partnership with iri, this lever of change has

been at the heart of the mission set. the support for drl is very vast and wide. foreign assistance in drl is one of our main levers of promotion of democracy. how do we go about doing it? i would recommend everyone read on our website our strategy because the strategy talks about the different pillars of democratic support including the procedural part that you are talking about, including the complementary support for civil society and the support for other institutions.

our support for transitional justice to enable society to hold accountable themselves, the authoritarians in their past that might have suppressed rights with repression. our strategy lays out our interests in governance and freedom of mind. our interest in technology and human rights, etc. it is a vast strategy that informs our proposal process, which i think people are familiar with was deeply competitive with pru the rules of the road assigned by congress and enforced by drl, which has to do with getting really good, really cutting edge proposals that make the case for impact. we are always looking for new ideas. that is the secret sauce.

we are -- i've always taken big bets on these may be crazy, out-of-the-box ideas that have the potential to cultivate an impact in 5, 10, 15 years. these bats have paid on again and again. these are creative, long-term thinkers. we don't -- we -- it is the key part in our foreign assistance. there is a locked-in path dependency for u.s. foreign assistance. in drl, we start new ideas and theories of change and and ones that aren't working. we are interested in the evidence of impact. we are interested in comparative case studies across the region. we are interested within regions seeing what worked in venezuela

and now when we see this authoritarianism in nicaragua, comparing those two cases. we do that a lot in our foreign assistance approach. i think i have answer that one. i would add it is not our only lever of change and i can talk a little bit about the other mechanisms we use. patrick: it's a great segue for my final question before we used to audience q&a. how is drl incorporating evidence on what works as well as funding decisions? asst. sec. rand: maybe i will start where i left off which is just enumerating our strategies. it is a healthy and robust growing part of money. it is drg and democracy promotion and other bureaus in the state department.

we are growing in the area of sanctions that are directly targeting the actors promoting state democratization. the sanctions which were limited to what had happened with this great human rights defender in russia could be repeated. it allows us to have a smart sanction that is just targeting individuals who are the drivers, promoting the authoritarianism. we have these visa restrictions. folks can't come into the united states and visit disney world if at home they are doing terrible

things to their people and stealing money, if they are repressing dissidents and civil society. it is the least we can do to stop them from getting a visa. what we are finding in terms of evidence in terms of learning and analyzing this tool which is relatively new, it has the effect of naming and shaming internally. there is a status to being able to travel abroad. in some of these systems where it is georgia, iran where we have done it very deliberately and carefully to punish essentially and give consequences unaccountability to the individuals, you are pushing back on and really jailing all the leaders of the women's rights movement a few years ago. we are seeing in the been given in -- beginning of our evidence

collection. i don't want to exaggerate. it is the beginning of good evidence of the power of that tool. the other tool i want to talk about is dhs and department of commerce that are good organizations right now in the biden administration. drl, we are working on export controls. we don't believe like the state department that is how u.s. governments -- u.s. companies, those licenses go through the state department. we don't believe dual use items that can be used to repress dissidents, journalists, bloggers, independent activists, lgbtq leaders should be allowed a license. the department of commerce agrees.

we have had a lock in targeting expert controls. there is commercial spyware, which is a threat to national security. when it is misused by authoritarian regimes, it is used to get into the phones and personal computers and to stop the work of political society. we have been saying no to requests from a spyware company that was trying to do with an authoritarian regime. they were so embarrassed or not embarrassed, but so alarmed about the use of their product that they created a company policy to only sell and do business in democracy. finally, i will highlight with dhs, we are working on supply chain issues and this goes back to one of the biden priorities i'm happy to be able to

institutionalize and to really implement very directly. the biden administration has focused a lot on supply chains from competitors such as the p.r.c. and we know about the chips act and many other ways in which the biden administration has created a smart industrial policy to make sure that american workers and companies get a fair advantage when the supply chain traces back to the p.r.c. and others, back to the exploitative business and others. we see that some products in the world can be sourced back to slave labor in the p.r.c., where uighur populations that are often detained and held against their will are forced to produce some of these products for these companies that end up in the international supply chain.

with dhs we are trying to implement the new act that senator rubio passed a couple of years ago which says if there was forced labor by uighurs in the supply chain, that product cannot be imported into the united states. we are big importers. we have a big market of consumers. the goal is to send a signal to international business and companies that we will not allow for this sourcing of labor. it has been really productive work to stop containers and do checking one of the supply chain and on the sourcing of the labor. it is a bit of a pilot experiment to source it back to the slave labor and stop this terrible or at least prevent -- i want to say punish, but an act

consequences. patrick: that is great to hear about the whole of government approach. now is the time when you all get to ask the assistant secretary your questions. if you do have a question, please queue behind the microphone. maker question brief and introduce yourself with name and title. as folks come up to the microphone, i will take one online. how does the biden administration balance it overseas and maintain relationships? asst. sec. rand: this is the core of the daily work and frankly i mentioned that foreign policy is a big debate.

we are having fruitful and constructive debates every day. in the state department and how to approach our partners strengthening partnerships, working together with global security concerns. while attending to our security concerns about de-democratization or authoritarianism. recognizing the interconnectedness and some of our countries of concern. i would list off egypt. recently egypt released some prisoners. there we have a very important security partnership with the government of egypt and yet in drl, we worked with our colleagues and experts in the embassy and in washington to try to make the case diplomatically. this is the lever i didn't mention. the court to the mission.

use our diplomatic engagement to make the case to the government of egypt that essentially this is not good for our partnership, having such a repressive system in the largest arab country that is so young is not a recipe for stability or economic success. using our diplomatic relationship to make this case. in drl, we try to create and work with our colleagues and our embassies and diplomats and the secretary and the president and other senior officials to make the case that you can do both at once. you can implement the approach for democracy even while you are shoring up partnerships with other issues such as economic interactions that relate to security concerns or third-party concerns, etc. i would just note that turkey is another one standing out as a country that is so critical as a nato ally.

we need to work with turkey on so many fronts. especially because the neighborhood has gotten really rough in the middle east and in europe. and we are deeply concerned about limitations on journalists, the arrests of political opposition, etc. patrick: let's come into the room here. please. >> good morning. i'm from bangladesh and now i'm here. my question about bangladesh, all of you know that the regime changed. this time, within august 5 and 15 others, 2200 hindu families, many people murdered. against the indigenous community in the country and it echoes all

over the country. nobody is being accountable or arrested. from the government side, they are not -- you cannot do that. it is a punishable offense. rather they are talking maybe they are associated with other parties. you know? they are justifying the attack on the indigenous communities. what type of democracy is going on? i cannot understand because my people are dying every day and my family, maybe they are going to move anywhere else. on the other hand, most of the people associated with terrorism , the proven association with al qaeda, on the other hand, those

people, the sole attorney of a war criminal and bangladesh. there is a war criminal tribunal. he was the attorney of a war criminal. now he became the chief prosecutor of this criminal. you understand what type of democracy this is going on. my question is and here in america, it is a great country and you are working and helping for democracy i hope -- please -- the hindu and minority communities in bangladesh. these jihadists, they are

attacking every day non-muslim families. thank you so much. asst. sec. rand: thank you so much for that question and i'm so glad i have a chance to talk about bangladesh. i'm very excited about the opportunities for the opportunities, but i'm also worried and concerned that this period right after a dictator flees and falls can be really fragile and really difficult. especially at protecting minority rights in transitional justice, which are the two issues you mentioned and which every day my bureau and other bureaus of the state department are working on because we know how critical it is to show that democracy delivers, that a new leadership can protect security, can ensure inclusivity and can hold accountable those who have

committed terrible crimes against their people. when a transitional justice, we are making a significant effort. we are working with the u.n. high commissioner for human rights and we just met with him to talk about bangladesh and his efforts to go out there and lead an international team to focus on transitional justice to hold accountable those who are responsible for these crimes. mohammad yunus has agreed to come back and lead this transition that is an incredible mark of public service. he is coming back and he has a very, very hard job to lead in this transition environment when people want to see that democracy delivers. we are thinking how to help him deliver on accountability and protection of minorities to make sure there is no jihadi threat.

as you say, that could very much scare people, but also make the case that democracy is that for security, which we don't want. we are trying to help mohammad yunus. the secretary and i met with him at the u.n. two weeks ago and he is working very hard. one thing he is trying to do which is top of mind is to work on jobs. he understands that the students in the streets that were part of this movement, he is trying to send a signal internationally that it is open for business because there has been this moment of instability. we are also trying to work on the labor conditions. again, back to sourcing, many american products are sourced in manufacturing and bangladesh.

we are trying to make sure they are very strong. those are some of the things we're doing. through all of this, we are promoting and pushing a rule of law approach, which has been lacking in bangladesh, a rule of law approach to protecting minorities, to cracking down on jihadism and any kind of terrorist threat to the people of bangladesh. a rule of law approach to the protection of the rohingya who have fled from burma into bangladesh over the past years and who have been, who have a right through international standards to be protected. and the people of bangladesh have been incredibly generous. we are working with the new government to make sure that continues. these are some of the things we are doing. above all else, we are working with mohammad yunus to make it clear that it is very tricky to take over an interim transition

and he has to balance speed in delivering with getting himself out of office and calling for elections and creating a roadmap for the people for what comes next. i'm so glad you asked about this and please be assured that at the most senior levels of our government we understand opportunity, we understand the challenges and we are really committed. patrick: so critical to help a democracy actually deliver in addition to the many threats we have been talking about. yes, sir, come to the microphone please. you will round us out with the third and final question and we will close out. >> [speaking foreign language] you didn't mention belarus. what is your assessment of what we should do more to support democracy in this country and use this opportunity to thank you for actively supporting democracy.

this other question that is probably even more difficult, we hope ukraine will win the war against russia and there will be changes including in russia. this is a strategic question. do you think what we can do now to support democracy in russia? hopefully we will win against putin, but people in russia, any chance now to support democracy? there are social media to support democracy. asst. sec. rand: those are two great questions. on belarus, first of all i want to thank the lithuanian people in the government of lithuania because vilnius has become the center for the belarusian

opposition. with great, i think, efforts by everyone in lithuania to understand the need to protect these individuals, many of whom who are deeply endangered because of the transnational repression i described before. for example two weeks ago when i was in new york, some of the belarusian opposition was there and you should have seen the bodyguards that have to surround these individuals that are quite sad. they are really scared when they leave their homes. thank you to the lithuanian people for supporting the belarusian opposition. one thing i learned when i talked to them a few weeks ago is i asked, where is the learning coming from? from moscow to minsk? or minsk to moscow? they said, lukashenko is teaching the kremlin how to do the tricks in terms of authoritarianism, repression, surveillance, marginalization of anyone who would express a differing view and that was deeply concerning. we are working on prisoner

releases for example and other means. we have held accountable the individuals in the belarusian government through our >> we are focused on it and i would also hear bernini in the u.s. congress and commend senator and many, many members of the senate and congress in a bipartisan fashion focusing on the belarusian problem. the second question, i think this is a strategic big picture question of how do we -- first of all, the u.s. and the west is supportive of the russian people. this is not a concern for the people of russia. this is not a war with the russian people. this is not an attack on the russian national identity. this is essentially an effort for ukraine to protect the territorial integrity of the ukrainian government and people and it is literally its right to exist as an independent country

and we need to make that clear. this question of where is public opinion in russia in supporting the war machine and imperialism? this is a very important question and i think in the long-term, we need to help the russian people and body poly teak detached their nationalism from this concept of imperialism in the near abroad because the two have been intertwined unfortunately in dangerous ways and this goes back to georgia and moldova and the nearby states where there has been intervention because of this concept of russian nationalism and its use. and again, i do believe that many, many russian people want to live normal lives and a preponderance of people want interconnectivity with the world, etc., etc.. so this is why we need alliances. we need alliances with lithuania, with partners in the e.u., with all over the world to help push back on this

nationalist imperialist pro-authoritarianism we are seeing and this is part of our strategy and we are trying to enlist partners all over the world and essentially, we need to help ukraine defend itself because it is a litmus test of our resolve in this regard. >> to wrap us up for today, i first and foremost wanted to thank assistant secretary rand for being here. thanks very much to your team from the prep that went into the session today. thanks to our partners at the atlantic council for joining us and thanks to all of you for joining us here in person and online. have a great day and we will see you next time. thank you. [applause] >> with that witness democracy

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