stick me with noodles and both arms -- with needles. host: do you ever see the bill? caller: then they did and ekgn t the hospital -- the nurse told the doctor that i had a murmur. he decided not to do surgery and told me that i had to go to a heart specialist to get an okay. they charged on medicare over $1,100 and send me a bill for $130. i went to the heart surgeon -- i mean to the heart specialist, cardiologists, and he said there is nothing wrong with your heart. what the you do? so, i went to another surgeon instead of the first. last week i had the carotid

artery done and everything went fine. except that the first surgeon was going to do it on the right side and the surgeon said no, it is the left side. so, there you go. you are shooting crap the matter which will you go. -- no matter which way you go. but if you do not have universal health care, then you are in trouble. no matter what. even if you are a millionaire. host: thanks for calling in. we will be able to continue this discussion later jared bernstein, an economic policy advisor to vice president joe biden. he will help review the trip to green bay and obama's town hall meeting. congressman fred upton is coming

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listen saturday morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span radio in the washington, baltimore area. you can also watch online. and nationwide on xm satellite on 132. >> how is he's been funded? >> private donations? >> i do not know. >> donations? >> i do not know. >> federally? >> contributions. >> 30 years ago america's cable companies created c-span as a public service, a private business initiative, no government mandate or money. "washington journal" continues. host: joining us now is michigan republican fred upton to talk about the auto industry. let's get your reaction to the chrysler-fiat deal. guest: there was a choice.

you're either going to liquidate chrysler and everything would go, gone. or you try to find a suitor in the federal government would not be the sole source here. they found fiat which was literally the only company on the global willing to come in and partner with chrysler. it looks like that will happen and it is a good thing, not only for all the chrysler workers, but it is good for the country. it had to happen and sets the stage for gm. there is no partner for gm, but our hope is that ultimately they will succeed and build cars that will sell and their profits will return. at that time there will then pay back the taxpayer and be on their own. host: obviously, this issue affects your home state and there are strong feelings out there.

what do you hear from constituents about the fiat deal and do they hope will bring back jobs? guest: nationally about one out of eight, or one out of nine jobs are auto-related. in michigan if it is about one out of four, or five jobs that are related to the auto industry. because sales have fallen over the last three years you can see those jobs -- it is one of the reasons michigan has the double- digit unemployment. there are some expectations of 20% by the end of the summer. even though my district is in southwest michigan where we have virtually no assembly jobs, we have a lot of auto parts suppliers. for the auto parts business

today you do not have a lot of soul source suppliers. i have a glass company that makes windows for the chevy trailblazer and for the honda accord or civic. you have a lot of these multi- source suppliers, and as a result it is one of the reasons why ford -- many have hailed ford because they have not needed assistance, but ford like toyota says that if you let chrysler or gm old and a supplier. way, we will not have the parts to build our cars. so, this issue has a big impact on michigan. it is critical for them to be able to stay alive. host: we're talking about the automobile industry with

michigan republican fred upton. we will take calls shortly. let's talk a little about the cultures of these companies. many people do not associate the kind of cars made by chrysler with the smaller, european models. will there be a fundamental shift in how americans view cars? guest: there has to be. they have signed off on increasing mileage requirements by 2016 and the average will be 35 miles per gallon. that means you have a smaller car. there is no choice but to do that. you will see that retooling. gm is looking at a new car, b and c models, one is literally 8 meters long.

it is a lot like the smart cars at uc around. they will have to make that transition. it is the only way to hit that target. -- like the smart cars that you see around. the big thing, particularly in the next two years is the electric hybrid car. gm has the volt. the four manufacturers have them too. for those cars, the plug-in hybrids you will see a dramatic increase in the mileage. maybe you can offset the other size reduction on those vehicles. host: there is a provision you have supported in the house. it is called cash for clunkers. explain that piece of legislation. guest: remember that sales have plummeted.

16 different nations around the world already passed legislation, have this program in place whether germany, south korea, where there is an additional incentive. you get your best deal with your local auto dealer, and then if the car is scrapped you get money on top of its. then you either buy a new car or lease one. you get some of these old cars, the less fuel efficient ones, and it is a tipping point to get people back into the showroom. edison said. it will not be a permanent program. it passed in our energy and commerce committee by a bipartisan vote, more than two- thirds in the house, as well.

if you bring in an old car, into a dealer to buy or lease a new car, if that vehicle is less than 18 miles per gallon in dubai a car that will be better than 4 miles per gallon better, you'll get your $3,500 or $4,500 off. host: does the money come from the federal government? guest: it will be a direct transfusion from the government to the dealer. they will scrap the car, and keep some parts it is expected to be in a supplemental appropriation bill. it will probably get to the president's desk in the next week or two. the president supports that provision. host: let's get to some calls. we have tom, from toledo, ohio.

caller: good morning. i have a statement. i am and ex-auto maker. back in the 1980's robert wanted to put the saturn brand ford. it is now for so. at the time the uaw gave up a performance bonus that we were entitled to at the time. it was in order for roger smith to start of the saturn plant which is now up for sale. the union has already given more than ample enough. i am a retiree. will gm make good on the residual contract demands? that is my question. guest: the bankruptcy court --

gm has filed for bankruptcy. they will have a lot to say in terms of what happens to the pensions and benefits for workers. my guess is that you will be covered. i cannot say that with absolute certainty. obviously, saturn is one of the options that gm will be getting rid of. i am told that sadr never really made any money for gm. -- the sector never really made money. but someone is likely to pick it up somewhere. in terms of the legacy costs for the uaw workers, i believe there will be some protections. host: we have a caller from michigan. guest: just waiting to see if it is my dad. caller: i have a question about the magna corp. in detroit --

the canadian partner up with opel. guest: the german opel. jim has had a controlling interest -- gm has had a controlling interest in opel, but that is the longer the case down the road. host: do you have a question? caller: what you mean down the road? guest: gm is getting rid of a number of its brands. i believe that opel will be one of those. it will be more independent than before. as we have watched the entire auto industry move with assistance, the federal

taxpayers are providing capital to make sure that they stay solvent. the canadian government is doing the same. the canadian government is holding about 9%. between of the u.s. and canada, about a 71% stake. hopefully, the companies will survive and pay back the money and get on an independent footing again. host: let's go to ralph in chicago, illinois. caller: we could save $1 trillion per year by implementing what we have known for 100 years. streamlining the underside of cars just like airplanes to minimize the wind resistance. also, with synthetic lubricants to minimize internal friction on

the engine. and also, totally evaporated in the gasoline before burning it in the combustion chamber because droplets of gas from the carburetor do not burn completely. we developed this in the pouge -- we had a patent for it and propose. they're getting 200 miles per gallon. if you consult thet movie consultucker" made in the 1980's about an inventor who got stifled and repressed by the auto companies who would buy up his patents and then sit on them, it is easy to see -- the movie "tucker" -- a company could easily buy up and influence carchemish to make sure that we dragged our feet

-- influence car companies to make sure that we dragged our feet for 100 years. host: are there any mandates on the car industry to use technologies? guest: the cafe requirement is out there and it was speeded up earlier than what congress mandated in that 12007 act. it will not be 2016 rather than 2020. that was done between the dot and the administration with the auto companies. they do not tell them how to do it. we know that they're close to the electric-hybrid technology. most of the industry now thinks they can get the cars into the showroom as early as next year. host: let's go to kathleen from indiana.

caller: i keep asking the same question ever since this trouble began in the economy with the car companies, the banks, and now the health care debate. my husband is a 32-year steelworker. he works for one of the largest global steel corporations and the world. we have had such trouble. he got hours cut, no profit- sharing, or anything. we got basically screw. how come no one is talking about what this is doing to the steelmaker's? now we are left in the dust. what are you people doing to protect my husband's job? he is too young to retire. he does not want to retire. he wants to work. what are you people doing to

help the steel industry? we need some help, too. guest: let me just say a couple of things. hammond is close to my district. a couple of things that i am excited about -- later in your program my colleague, steve, will be on talking about the republican energy plan. one of the big components is to increase our nuclear energy capacity by 100 plants. as you know, i have two nuclear plants in my congressional district. when they were built, the cook plant which is closest to you -- 65% of the components for those massive industries, a 85% came from this country. because we have turned the switch from green to red over the last 20 years -- no new

nuclear facilities at all. 85% of the components come from someplace else, including the steel reactor. wouldn't that be nice to be built in indiana or pittsburgh? knowing the area of energy needs will increase by as much as 40% over the next 20 years? host: let's go to the republican line from dayton, ohio. caller: good mind. thank you for taking my call, congressman upton. i take issue a little was something you said about having to scale down our cars and go with a smart card to meet the cafe standards. -- to go with the smart car. i am a pickens plan supporter.

guest: i am, too. i have a bumper sticker on my car. caller: a wonder about these cafe standards that pay mpg -- is there a requirement that the gallon be unleaded gasoline that we have to import? guest: it is. this can about before i was in congress. no longer can you have leaded gasoline. it must be unloaded for the environment. that has not been up for debate in decades. yes, it does have to be unloaded form and there are even cleaner versions. right now because of epa requirements passed back in 1992, and a number of larger communities, there is a special

blend knell of will recall reformulated gasoline which is even cleaner which must be used in the summer months because of ozone levels out there -- there's a special blend now. i will also remind listeners that the new mileage requirements, the auto industry agreed to do them by 2016. everyone is on the same page. that will happen. you can probably do that now, as we have seen some advances in battery technology. there is a push for natural gas in several regions around the country. particularly in salt lake city. use the larger fleets now using natural gas which burns cleaner. you might get better mileage, too. host: on the internet line, from knoxville, tenn. now.

caller: hello, mr. upton, i have two questions. first, the tennessee valley authority has the rate payers in the region paying interest on a $25 billion debt from the nuclear reactors they were attempting to build it in the 1970's and 1980's. this $25 billion we must pay interest on. now they're contemplating building new nuclear reactors. this time they say there will be no debt associated with them. one of the reactors they're planning to build it is an experimental live water reactor. i wonder how that will be paid for? we are already $25 billion in debt. your comment about dealers getting to keep parts of

clunkers they are buying -- for what purpose? they are clunkers, overweight, inefficient. guest: here is why. if you are driving them and their fuel pump breaks committee will not buy a new car. you would just want to buy the fuel pump chances are that new fuel pump is cheaper if you buy from a used car compared to buying a new one that has never been in a vehicle. it saves consumers money to buy a used part compared -- and you often have that option. you have the option to get a used part compared to something that is brand new. maybe a fuel pump is a bad example, but otherwise if a poor works fine that is a savings you can take advantage of.

being from michigan i do not know all the answers for you. but nuclear, it is greenhouse gas emission-free. the bill is moving through congress. it will call for a giant reductions in greenhouse gas emissions. nuclear is one of the answers. europe has 90%, france has 90% of its energy from nuclear reactors. the spanish will decide this month. the brits, china, japan, many countries are out there trying to speed along a new nuclear plants. as that happens, hopefully, the cost will come down. if we can turn the switch to green, then hopefully we will see parts made here. host: there is a question about cash for clunkers.

in the editorial page here, two of your colleagues wrote specifically about the house version of this bill. they say the bill undermined fuel efficiency standards. the house bill would subsidize the purchase of a new hummer, or new ram. it talks about a companion bill in the senate which they say is better. but the bill being pushed for the auto industry is bad policy. it's as these bills are expertly designed to provide it detroit one last windfall to sell off gas-guzzlers' currently sitting on dealer lots. guest: nothing is perfect, right? my bill would have been a little different. but you must work with your colleagues. the bill that we passed in my committee the do you know the committee well in terms of a

balance between democrats and republicans. 50-4. then, on the house floor, an amendment, better than a two- thirds vote -- a hummer -- one of the provisions was that your car has to have worse than 18 miles per gallon. as we think about hummers, most of those would use the head as a stereotype and gets less than 80 miles per gallon but the new car or a police car has to be at least four mpg better. -- or those lease car. if you want to take full advantage id should be a 10 mile per gallon differential. if you turn in a 50 mpg-vehicle you need to get at least a 25 mile per gallon vehicle to get the full benefit. bela thing is this, if you have

an old hummer that cost say, $40,000 that is three years oold that is now only worth $18,000, or less -- you will not want to take advantage of this program at all. you will not get the $8,000 plus the 40 $500,000 -- plus the $4,500. so, your car must be worth less than the amount. host: we have frank on the republican line from new jersey. caller: good morning. great show, c-span. congressman fred upton, i have things i like to say to you

about all this. first off, number one, the federal government is completely out of touch with what really goes on in the auto industry and how it operates because the price of oil has backfired. the government -- in the government's case. all used to be a cheap commodity to use as fuel for an automobile. then as time goes on you want to use of ethanol and our cars. they find out that it pollutes more than gasoline does. ok? now i want to get on to the electric hybrid car and not against cutting fuel- efficient cars or against doing something for the environment. but look, if you guys are talking about moving to an electric gasoline hybrid, and now you have twice the maintenance on a vehicle