afghanistan. in afghanistan we do not want another repeat of the very significant problem that the department of defense had in afghanistan with losing, yes, losing significant military equipment to the taliban. u.s. taxpayers deserve better. in this bill, we are giving them better. we're giving the oversight. and every essence -- in every essence, we are making sure that aid we give to pakistan is properly used, that benchmarks are in place, that oversight is in place. we're making sure that any entity being used, whether it's being used, and certainly their nuclear weapons do not fall into terrorist hands or other hands. we made sure under the leadership of ms. lee who is on this committee, with the

chairman's manager's amendment, that we have safeguards in here to make sure none of these funds are used to even expand the nuclear capacity. this is an extraordinary bill at an extraordinary time. it is heavily bipartisan and i commend the chairman on an excellent piece of legislation. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from california has 7 1/2 minutes remaining, reserves the balance of his time. the gentlelady from florida has 6 1/2 minutes of time and is recognized. ms. ros-lehtinen: i yield myself such time as i may consume. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady is recognized. ms. ros-lehtinen: too often the relationship between the united states and pakistan has been characterized as a mutual frustration. it's endangered by a growing trust gap. while the leaderships of the two countries place a high value on our relationship, their public and legislatures

have viewed each other with suspicion, depicted each other as unreliable allies, but with the advent of a new administration, both in pakistan and in the united states, we're offered a window of opportunity to redefine, to recalibrate relations, both sides need to guard against unrealistic expectations, but be prepared to enage in an honest dialogue and therein lies the rub, mr. speaker. as a pakistani civil society leader and a close confidant of the late benazir bhutto has said, conditioning aid turns on its head the very rationale for assistance to stabilize pakistan, tone able it to empower it to deal more effectively with security challenges. an approach that treats pakistan from the paradigm of hired help rather than a valued ally is deeply counterproductive. it only reinforces the

transactional nature of ties that are so resented by pakistanis. mr. speaker, our overarching goal should and indeed must be, do no harm. unfortunately, the bill before us could hamper rather than help vital u.s. security and strategic objectives regarding pakistan and afghanistan. with that, i yield the balance -- i reserve the balance of our time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from california is recognized. mr. berman 13k mr. chairman, i'm pleased to yield two minutes to the -- to my friend from california, the member of the committee, the gentlewoman, barbara lee. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady is recognized for two minutes. ms. lee: thank you, mr. speaker. first, let me thank the chairman for his very effective work on this bill and for your leadership. and for really bringing this

forward to the committee so that all of us could have an opportunity to weigh in and talk about and amend and include many of the provisions that we believe allowed us to come to this floor today to support this bill. i believe, like many, i believe that by addressing pakistan rather than an escalation of the war in afghanistan is a much more effective way to address terrorism and our national security. i'm greatly encouraged by the goals of this legislation, which aims to put the united states smart power to work, which many of us have been talking about for many years. the smart power. this helps to reshape our relationship with pakistan, based on a long-term commitment to social, economic, and political development. the legislation integrates key benchmarks and limitations absent in previous aid packages, which resulted in really $so billion in united states aid since since 2001,

yielding little or no progress in pakistan. you can imagine why some of us were initially very skept -- skeptical of this. this also seeks to reshape the u.s.-pakistan relationship by shifting unconditional military assistance away from this trend of tra d -- traditionally exclusively unconditional assistance. i want to make that clear, this is not unconditional, this is conditional. it provides a two to one ratio to economic assistance, social and kemic assistance and other priorities we believe we should support this bill really prere-flects the sentiments shared by many colleagues that the national security of our nation hinges upon much more than military might. instead it hinges upon the success of diplomatic and development efforts around the globe. the democratically elected --

may i have another minute and a half? mr. berman: i yield 30 seconds. that's the last 30 seconds. ms. lee: as a supporter all my life of nonproliferation efforts, i'm pleased and want to thank chairman berman for working with myself and other members of the committee to address concerns regarding the potential expansion of pakistan's nuclear program. i wanted to make sure the possible fungibility of the funds was not a factor. in president obama's bold and brilliant speech in chi la lea -- cairo last week, the reaffirmed america's commitment to seek a world in which no nation holds nuclear weapons. we wanted to make sure that was the case here with pakistan in this bill and that we minimized any type of fungibility of funds. thank you very much. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady's time has expired, the gentleman from california reserves the balance of his time. the gentlelady from florida. ms. ros-lehtinen: thank you,

i'm pleased to yield one minute to mr. rohrabacher, the ranking member of the subcommittee on international organizations, human rights, and oversight. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from california is recognized for one minute. mr. rohrabacher: i rise in opposition to this effort to send billions of more dollars to pakistan. i've reached my threshold with pakistan. we have sent them billions upon billions of dollars and we still have an anti-american sentiment all the way through that government. they were our friends during the cold war, yes, they sided with us against the soviet union. the cold war is over. it is long over. and since that time, pakistan, the leaders of pakistan, have allied themselves with the most radical elements of is almost -- islam who hate the united states. and the pakistani officials and the i.s.i., the c.i.a. -- their c.i.a., has been working with conjunction with radical

islamists ever since. we should not be sending them billions and billions more dollars. we should be seeking instead to rely on registrationships with india, russia, and other countries that will be more reliable allies. i'm sorry that i'm having to say we should be writing off a country like this. let's focus on afghanistan and quit sending billions of dollars to pakistanis. thank you. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from california's time has expired. the gentlelady from florida reserves the balance of her time. the gentleman from california. mr. berman: i yield myself 15 seconds. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for 15 seconds. mr. berman: just remember, a decision at this point to give up on pakistan, it is pakistan that is providing sanctuary for the people fighting us in afghan, it is pakistan who has nuclear weapons, and i reserve the -- i now yield two minutes to the gentleman from texas,

mr. green. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from texas is recognized for two minutes. mr. green: thank you, mr. chairman. mr. chairman, i'm supporting this legislation because it addresses both war and peace. if i may, i'd like to focus on the peace initiative. because the truth be told, the great issue of our time is not whether a superpower can police the world, a superpower can police the world. the great issue of our time is whether a superpower can bring peace to the world. this piece of legislation helps us not only with war but also with peace because it helps us with economic development. it helps us to give people the opportunity to give people the opportunity to take care of themselves and sustain themselves. it also helps us with education. the wealth of a nation is the education of its people. it helps us to bring the peace

and stability that will be needed when the war is over. war can help us to provide a certain degree of security, but it won't provide the salvation we need to have the peace. i support this bill because it helps us when the war is over to help have the peace and stability that pakistan will need. i thank you, plmp. it's a great piece of legislation and i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from texas yields back. the gentleman from california reserves the balance of his time. the gentlelady from florida has three 3 1/2 minutes remaining. ms. ros-lehtinen: at this point, i'm very pleased to yield to mr. hunter of california for three minutes. if he would need it, two minutes if not. mr. hunter: two minutes will be great. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for two minutes. mr. hunter: first, let me say this. i've served in iraq two times

as a united states marine and i've served in afghanistan once. i was over there in 2007. i was fighting and word came across from here in the states in october of 2007 that said several hundred state department employees express thared resentment over a policy that could force them to serve in iraq where they might lose -- or they might lose their jobs. they actually called going over to iraq and afghanistan a potential death sentence. so these are state department employees, diplomats, the same ones we're asking to go to pakistan and afghanistan, which is arguably the most dangerous area right now in the entire world, we're asking them to go over the exact same people called going over to iraq a potential death sentence. i would equate this to sending diplomats to katrina-destroyed new orleans in 2005 instead of the national guard. we're going to send diplomats

to louisiana. we aren't going to send national guard or emergency service, we're going to send diplomats. as opposed to giving general petraeus, as the president asked for, funding to help out in pakistan and afghanistan, we're going to send diplomats. so they can talk to taliban and talk to al qaeda, they can talk to the madmen who cut off people's heads, that's what the state department's going to do. this is the wrong move. the republicans have it right this time. give the president full authority, let him come up with a plan and let general petraeus implement that, this substitute the republican substitute is the right way to go. we need to make sure that pakistan is fighting for pakistan and that pakistan doesn't think it's only fighting for american dollars. that's what we need to do. as once more a united states marine that saw state department ineptness and cowardice, while i was in afghanistan, it's almost personally insummitting we're going to pull the money and

fund from general the reus and give it to state department cronies. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady from florida has 1 1/2 minutes remaining. the gentleman from california has 3 and a quarter minutes remaining and is recognized. mr. berman: yes, mr. chairman, i'm pleased to yield two minutes to the gentlewoman who has made a significant contribution to this legislative effort, the gentlewoman from wisconsin, ms. moore. two minutes. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman is recognized for two minutes. ms. moore: mr. speaker, i want to thank chairman berman for working with me so closely to include provisions in h.r. 1886 to ensure that the empowerment and protection of -- and human

rights of women are an important purpose for our aid to pakistan. and to help address the high rate of maternal mortality in pakistan. as secretary of state clinton noted earlier this year. -- earlier this year, the status of women and girls is a key indicator of whether or not progress is even possible in a society. we simply can't solve the global problems confronting us from the worldwide financial crisis to the risk of climate change, chronic hunger, disease, poverty, when the energies and talents of hundreds of millions of people, half the world's population is left behind, according to the world health organization, maternal mortality is an indicator of disparity and inequity between men and women and reflects a woman's so-called place in society. and their ultimate access to social health and nutritional

services and to economic opportunities. in this case, pakistan's maternal mortality rate speaks of the great challenges facing pakistani women. over 400 women per 100,000 live births in -- 400 women die per 100,000 live births in pakistan and for comparison, that's 11 per 100,000 in the united states. it's the aim of my amendment to make clear that this u.s. aid authorized in this bill addresses this challenge. we need to make it unmistakably clear, mr. chairman that addressing the nation's high child and maternal mortality rates is a key part of our assistance to pakistan. we know that these interventions will save these women's lives and ultimately save the nation. again, i thank the chairman for his support, and i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from california has

one hand a quarter minutes remaining and the right to close. the gentlelady from florida has one and a half minutes remaining and is recognized. ms. ros-lehtinen: i yield myself the remainder of the time. the speaker pro tempore: gentlelady. -- the gentlelady is recognized. ms. ros-lehtinen: i feel like i'm dealing with deja vu. the iraq strategies used about two years ago about their commitment of fighting extremist groups there are making an appearance in this chamber with respect to pakistan. u.s. commanders have just begun to address the situation on the ground to determine the needs to implement that new strategy and some of the speakers today are already tying the u.s. hands while prejudging the response of pakistan. we should be focusing on success, on prevailing against al qaeda, prevailing against the taliban, not anticipating

failure. and while the authors of this bill seek to empower our pakistani partners to confront insurgency and militarism, i believe this bill will have a counterproductive impact by potentially making the pakistani government appear subservient to the united states, as senator kerry suggested. this bill could weaken pakistani democracy as well as could potentially fuel paranoia, child conspiracy theories that help give rise to that country's visceral and deep seeded anti-americanism feeling. so i urge my colleagues to look at this bill, examine carefully what we're doing to our military, what we're doing to this new administration and come to the correct conclusion that they should oppose this bill. thank you, mr. speaker. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from california. mr. berman: may i inquire of how much time i have remaining?

the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman has 1 1/4 minutes remaining. mr. berman: i yield myself the entire time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized. mr. berman: just a few points. there was reference here to the f-16's. there is nothing in this bill that prohibits the pakistanis from deciding to buy more f-16's. two years ago they signed a contract indicating that that's what they were going to do. what this legislation does is say other than some specific adjustments, particularly that deals with utilizing the f-16's they already have and the counterinsurgency we are not going to give our taxpayer dollars for a weapons system, an airplane whose counterinsurgency interests are far less important than other equipment or training we could be providing.

secondly, admiral mullen came to see me about the problems of utilizing the traditional security assistance program for providing the kind of equipment that is needed for the counterinsurgency in pakistan. as a result of the case he made, we have created and worked with the armed services committee to create an entire fund that waives provision of law in the foreign military financing program so that we can get this equipment and this training to the pakistanis. pakistan is an urgent problem, but doing it right, not just doing it carelessly, is the way to go. i urge that this bill be supported. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman's time has expired. all time for debate on the bill has expired. for what purpose does the gentlewoman from florida rise? ms. ros-lehtinen: thank you, mr. speaker. i have a substitute amendment

at the desk. caller: amendment in the nature of a substitute printed in pambings -- part b of house resolution 522 offered by the gentlewoman from florida, ms. ros-lehtinen. the speaker pro tempore: ms. ros-lehtinen and a member opposed will each control 10 minutes. the chair recognizes the gentlewoman from florida. ms. ros-lehtinen: i yield myself such time as i may consume. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady is recognized for as much time as she may consume. ms. ros-lehtinen: this was drafted by the members on appropriations, on armed services, on homeland security and in intelligence. in so doing this approach immolated to some degree the administration's interagency strategic review. the substitute recognizes that of all the foreign policy challenges facing the united states stabilizing and reforming pakistan may be one

of the most daunting. given the enormous complexities and the ever-changing nature of the situation in pakistan, we believe that it is critical. at this stage that the administration retain the necessary flexibility to craft policies that offer the best chance of successfully partnering with the people of pakistan, with the government of pakistan, with the military of pakistan to defeat violent extremism. at the same time the substitute requires an ongoing policy dialogue between the administration and the congress regarding u.s. policy toward pakistan as well as robust legislative oversight of our strategy, of our implementation plan as well as allocation and expenditure of u.s. assistance. the republican substitute requires that not later than 30 days after the enactment of the supplemental appropriations act

for 2009 the president submit to congress a comprehensive interagency strategy and implemtation plan for u.s. efforts to eliminate safe havens and help toward the long-term security and stability in pakistan. let me repeat that again, mr. speaker. 30 days after enactment of the current supplemental under discussion the president is required to produce comprehensive interagency strategy and implementation plan. this is more timely than what is in the underlying bill. and it seeks to address immediate as well as evolving dynamics. the republican substitute relies on the president's leadership and commitment in providing the strategy and implement plan to the congress but does require that plan to include a description of how the u.s. assistance will be used in order to achieve our

u.s. foreign policy objectives. what does that include? enhancing stable democratic governance, making sure that we have economic growth, developing pakistani counterinsurgency capabilities, success in shutting down safe havens for extremists, improving the capacity and the capability of pakistan to hold and build areas cleared of insurgents to prevent their return, and developing and strengthening mechanism for pakistan-afghanistan cooperation for they can not be separated. the substitute also requires that the report include a detailed financial plan of the resources, of the programming, of the management of u.s. assistance to pakistan and the criteria used to determine their need and value in advancing our u.s. objectives. the substitute seeks to ensure that congressional oversight

and notification keeps pace with changing conditions on the ground and in turn changes in strategy and their implementcation. the republican substitute also fully funds the administration's request for the critically important new pakistan counterinsurgency capability fund. and i reserve the balance of our time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady reserves the balance of her time. for what purpose does the gentleman from california rise? mr. berman: mr. chairman, i'm very pleased to yield -- the speaker pro tempore: does the gentleman claim time in opposition? mr. berman: i do claim time in opposition. the speaker pro tempore: is the gentleman truly opposed to the amendment? mr. berman: i am truly opposed. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized. mr. berman: mr. chairman, i'd like to yield the initial two minutes to the gentlelady from

california, the author of her own legislation on security assistance and the question of the proliferation network in pakistan. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady from california is recognized for two minutes. ms. harman: i thank the chairman for yielding to me and rise in strong opposition to this republican substitute, but in strong support of the underlying bill, h.r. 1886, to provide long-term nonmilitary aid to a country in the crosshairs of the effort by the taliban to expand its region south asia. h.r. 1886 will help persuade the pakistani people that their future lies with a stable and moderate democratic government and not with an author tarian, thee krattic terrorist organization. but a key to doing this is important language in the bill ensuring access of u.s. investigators to persons suspected of engaging in nuclear proliferation. this issue is critical.

this language must become law. and i disagree strongly with some in this house and those in the other chamber who say these are overrestrictive and counterproductive. pakistan's history of nuclear weapons development has contributed to instability in south asia and paved the way for a.q. khan's proliferation network. additional and substantial nonmilitary support provided by the u.s. must ensure that the security threat to the u.s. which is represented by this network is minimized. for at least a decade, the illicit network was the most attractive shortcut for nations and rogue organizations interested in acquiring the materials and know-how to build a nuclear device. after illegally securing the capability for pakistan, which made him a hero at home and a pariah abroad, kahn sold it to iran, libya and north korea. despite billions of dollars in

u.s. aid, they pardoned kahn. they released him from house arrest. h.r. 1886, but not the republican substitute, declares that the u.s. will work with pakistan to ensure our investigators access to suspected proliferators and to restrict proliferators from travel and other activity that could result in further proliferation. it also incorporates, as the chairman said, language from a bill introduced by several of us to require a presidental assessment and restrict military aid in the future. mr. chairman, could i have 30 seconds? mr. berman: i yield the gentlelady 30 seconds. ms. harman: i thank the gentleman. restrict military aid in the future unless pakistan cooperates in efforts to dismantle its nuclear supply of networks. this is the right thing to do. and i thank the committee for doing it.

the world cannot afford another libya, iran or north korea. and we certainly don't want a new nuclear power called al qaeda. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady from california yields back the balance of her time. the gentleman from california reserves the balance of his time. the gentlelady from florida. ms. ros-lehtinen: thank you, mr. speaker. i'd like to reclaim my time and thank you to all of the wonderful people who came to my aid. the republican substitute, as i was saying, mr. speaker, also fully funds the administration's request for the critically important new pakistan counterinsurgency capability fund, pccf. forging an effective partnership with pakistan's military and intelligence apparatus has not been a straightforward affair. although the united states has enjoyed some success, our efforts have also been hampered by a series of exceptionally difficult problems. one is a matter of a threat perception and divergeans strategic priorities.

with pakistan almost obsessively focused on their traditional rival in india. another problem is the legacy of mistrust on both sides. a trust deficit, as i discussed earlier, that continues to greatly complicate our bilateral relations. and a third problem, a limited pakistani ability to conduct modern counterinsurgency and to some degree counterterrorism operations against al qaeda and their allies in the tribal areas. there's no question, for example, that pakistan needs to fully cooperate with new delhi in holding accountable all of those responsible for the brutal assault on mumbai as well as work with the u.s. and others on critical nonproliferation concerns. we do not disagree with the overarching goals and the strategic priorities that we want to achieve in relation to pakistan. our disagreement is that at this juncture we believe that e