>> mr. chairman -- may i@@@@xx#4 man place on the record a document? >> without objection. the gentleman from maryland. >> thank you during much, mr. chairman -- very much, mr. chairman. i am confused. just picking up on some of the things that the chairman and mr. kucinich were just asking about, if there was a $12 billion loss, i can understand. you were thinking of backing out of of the deal. i can understand that. that was based upon your expertise and your experience.

i cannot understand the agreement you reported that you made with treasury and the fed which they both denied to disclose the $12 billion loss. if the loss made this horrible business deal to acquire merrill lynch, why did you still do it? and i know you've told us over and over again. but let's be frank. i mean, and i'm wondering, how do you determine what is -- you must disclose. we have shareholders here who are concerned. you're about to go into a deal with a company that is worse off than is made to believe. and it just seems to me that and a person with your experience, there are a lot of people in this situation and i don't care what paulson may have said, what bernanke may have said.

they would have said, the tell with you, i'm going to stand on principle and my principles tell me there's a mac here and a real problem. if i go down, i go down. but i'm going down on principle. i want to give you an opportunity to tell us, because i got to tell you, i mean, i'm kind of concerned because i think there are some serious credibility issues and i think mr. kucinich raised some things that if i were your lawyers, i would be concerned about. so help me. >> your referring to the fact that despite the fact we thoug we could have a mac we relied on the -- >> and i'm also going to the point that i believe that when you said you don't just go and tell the feds and paulson that,

look, i smell a rat here. somebody of your stature, i can understand if you were some guy that came off the street six months ago and the last thing you did was even though you were a bank teller, no offense to bank tellers, that's all you did, you're a major player. and when you speak, people listen. so i'm trying to figure out, you've got -- you -- i mean, you said there is a problem here. but then you let these folks -- i mean in all due respect to bernanke and the feds and all due respect to paulson, you're the head of this bank and head of bank of america, they are not. you're -- you've got to answer to the shareholders. i'm trying to figure out why -- and this is stuff, it seems to me, if i had this kind of

information, i wouldn't even want my shareholders to be voting on something and they did not have full disclosure. i'm trying to figure out where does the disclosure come in. i get the impression that there was insufficient due diligence, i know you were dealing with a crunch time and only a matter of hoursz irp you were trying to turn all of this over. i got that. i man of your stature i refuse to believe you set traps parns sparnscy to the side for xpeed yency. i'm trying to give you ap opportunity to explain this to us. if you don't want us, that's up to you. >> if you ask, i will do my best. i don't know what else i can say other than we were influenced by the strong nature of the wording

from the federal reserve and the treasury in the sense that they obviously felt very strongly that we did not have a mac. i also looked -- still thought we had a strategic reason to do merrill lynch despite the fact it had a financial issue. and the third i thought the downside of calling a mac and not winning was severe. all of those factors were factors in me making that decision. if i had thought that it was a mac i would have called a mac. >> i see my time is up, mr. chairman. >> thank you, gentleman from maryland. as we come to the conclusion of this hearing. it's important to remember that we have heard only one side of

the story today. the committee needs to hear from mr. paulson and mr. bernanke before we draw any hard and fast conclusions. i do believe in fairness. however, i do think it is fair to observe that a flawed financial regulatory process was at work in this case. we see closed doors, meetings, coded messages. motives questions and private e-mails. basically the regulators and the financial institutions seems to be making up the rules as they went along. as congress considers financial regulatory reform, one of the lessons from this case is that we need much more transparency and accountability in the financial regulatory and oversight process. the american taxpayers and corporate shareholders deserve no less. they need to know what's going

on. let me again, thank you mr. lewis, for being here today. before we adds adjourn let me stay, this committee has and will continue to protect the american taxpayers. and we'll continue to make sure that the taxpayers dollars are spent in a transparent and wise manner. without objections, i enter this binder into the committee records and without objection, the committee stands adjourned. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009]

>> coming up next on c-span, president obama visits green bay, wisconsin, for a town hall meeting on health care, and more discussion on health care policy from house speaker nancy pelosi and then house republicans, who unveiled an alternative proposal. tomorrow morning on "washington journal" we will have senior

editor ponnuru and coming soon, george will end bob schieffer. >> how is c-span funded? >> private donations? >> taxpayers. >> i do not really know. >> donations. >> i do not know where the money comes from. >> contributions from donors. >> 30 years ago america of's cable companies created c-span as a public service with no government mandate or government money. >> president obama travel to green bay, wisconsin, to put forward his health care program that includes a public insurance plan that would compete with private insurance. this is about an hour.

>> ladies and gentlemen, to introduce the president reject laura. -- the president -- laura. [applause] >> good afternoon. my name is laura klitzka. 7 10 months ago my life changed when i found out i had staged three breast cancer at 43 years old. i had a fairly average life being a working mom with a husband and two young children. the diagnosis altered everything in my life.

i often found myself unable to work. fortunately, my husband worked entered the insurance for our family. the insurance plan had high deductibles and out of pocket expenses. although we felt fortunate to have insurance, we soon found we were overcome with medical bills. we knew there was not an option to cancel any of my treatment and we just have to face the bills as they came and hope for the best to make our minimum monthly payments set up with each clinic. i continued to receive medical treatments, including chemotherapy, several surgeries, and radiation throughout 2008. i finished my last treatment in december and truly hope my cancer was gone and that i could try to get back to some kind of normal life. unfortunately, in april, 2009,

i surgeon having unusual pain that was concerning. -- i started having unusual pain that was concerned. the doctor ordered a stand that found that the cancer was back and had spread to several bones. i am now in treatment every week, and i am hoping the madison -- the medicine will help strengthen my bones and keep the cancer from spreading. with the new d.e.a. knows this -- with a new diagnosis, i am hit with the realization that i will have more of those. we once again have to pay deductibles before the insurance company would pay for new bills. once received the diagnosis, we figured i would not be able to work anymore. the best arrangement was for me to stay home. as a family, we struggled to get by with income we have. in addition to regular expenses of families and careers, we have thousands of dollars we owe it to medical clinics and hospitals. we have to sacrifice a lot as a

family in order to pay the monthly bills we have. my daughter taylor, who is 11, and the other daughter is eight -- have suffered with me. my husband and i are not able to buy everything we need for them because we are overrun with bills. i hope someday changes could be made to help families such as ours overcome the problems where medical bills over take everyday living expenses. having cancer will totally change a person's life, but having to deal with all sorts of financial issues because of it is devastating. i am honored and privileged to introduce to you someone who is working hard to improve health care in america -- president barack obama. [applause]

[applause] >> thank you. god bless you. >> thank you. >> thank you, green bay. food to see you. thank you, thank you very much. thank you. thank you. [applause] thank you so much.

why doesn't everybody have a seat? it is great to be back in green bay. [applause] we are hoping that both the packers and the bears do better this year. >> boo! >> come on. we can bring everybody together. i want to make a few acknowledgements. we have got some wonderful special guests today. can everyone please give laura huge round of applause for sharing her story. [applause] i want to thank our hosts, printable brian davis and his family and superintendent greg mosqus.

please give them a big round of applause. your outstanding governor, jim doyle, is here. please give him a big round of applause. [applause] lt. gov. barbaro walter -- barbara lawson is here. your congressman is here. your own mayor. [applause] milwaukee mayor tom barracket is here as well. i want to thank the tribal leaders who are with us here today. [applause] they couldn't be with us but i want to in knowledge great leadership you're giving in the u.s. senate from herb kohl and

russ feingold. give them a big round of applause. [applause] this is a town hall meeting, but if you do not mind, i want to make a few comments at the outset to frame the discussion, and then we will get to the fun part. you guys can bombard me with questions. i want to thank southwest high school for hosting us. [applause] i especially want to thank laura for sharing her story. it takes courage to do that, and it takes more courage to battle the disease like cancer with such grace and determination, and i know her family is here, and they are working and fighting with her every inch of the way. laura's story is incredibly moving, but sadly, it is not unique. every day in this country, more and more americans are forced to

worry about not just getting well, but whether they can afford to get well. millions more wonder if they can afford the routine care necessary to stay well. even for those who have health insurance, rising premiums are straining family budgets to the breaking point. premiums that have doubled over the last nine years and have grown at a rate three times faster than wages. let me repeat that. health-care premiums have gone up three times faster than wages have gone up, so it is a desperately -- so desperately needed treatments are put off because the prices too high, and all it takes is a single illness to wipe out a lifetime of savings. employers are not faring any better. the cost of health care have held leave big corporations like gm and chrysler at a competitive

disadvantage with foreign counterparts. for small businesses, it is even worse. one month they are forced to cut back on health care benefits. the next month they have got dropped coverage. the next month they have no choice but to start laying off workers. for the government, growing costs of medicare and medicaid is the biggest threat to our federal deficit -- > social security, bigger than all the investments we have made so far, so if they are worried about it -- if you're worried about spending and deficits, you need to be worried about the cost of health care. we have the most expensive health-care system in the world -- bar none. we spend almost 50% more per person on health care then the next most expensive nation. 50% more, but here is the thing. we are not any healthier for it. we do not necessarily have

better outcomes. even within our own country there are a lot of faces -- places where we spend less on health care but actually have higher quality than places where we spend more, and it turns out green bay is a good example. right here in green bay, you get more quality out of fewer health-care dollars than any other kennedys across this country. and this is something to be proud of. -- than many other places across this country. and this is something to be proud of. [applause] use them less, but across the country, spending on health care keeps going up and up, day after day, year after year. i know there are millions of americans who are happy with their recovered to. they like their plan. they value their relationship with their doctor, and no matter how you who reform health care, i intend to keep this promise.

if you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. if you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan, so do not let people scare you. if you like what you have got, we are not going, but in order to preserve what is best about our health care system, we have to fix with not working. we have reached the point where we are doing nothing -- were doing nothing about health care is not an option. the status quo is unsustainable. if we do not act soon to bring down costs, it will jeopardize everybody's health care. if we do not act, every american will feel the consequences in higher premiums, which means lower take-home ahead. that is money that could have gone to give you a raise.

in a rising number of uninsured and rising debt for our children, we will be paying it off for decades. if we do nothing within the decade, we will be sending one out of every $5 a year on health care, and in 30 years we will be spending one out of every $3 we turn on health-care. that is untenable. it is unacceptable. i will not allow it as president of the united states. [applause] health care reform is not something i just cooked up when i took office. sometimes i hear people say he is taking on too much. i am not doing this because i do not have enough to do. we need health care reform because it is central to our

economic future. it is central to our long-term prosperity as a nation. in past years and decades, there may have been some disagreement on this point, but not anymore. today, we have already built an unprecedented coalition of people ready to reform our health-care system. physicians and health insurers, businesses and workers, democrats and republicans. a few weeks ago, some of these groups committed to doing something that would have been unthinkable a few years ago. they promised to work together to cut national health-care spending by two trillion dollars over the next decade. that will bring down costs. it will bring down premiums. that is exactly the kind of cooperation we need, but the question now is how we finish the job five we permanently barring gone costs of rigid bring down costs -- how do leave

permanently bring down costs of affordable health care? we will fix what is broken and smelled what works. in some cases, there is broad agreement on the steps we should take, so in our recovery act we already passed alreadyhey, -- already passed -- hey, buddy. the guy in the cap was waving at me. [applause] in the recovery act, we have already made investments in health information technology and electronic medical records that will reduce medical record and -- errors and save lives. we also need to invest in prevention and wellness programs to help americans live longer, healthier lives. [applause] the real cost savings will come

from changing the incentives of a system that automatically the >> -- that automatically equate smits incentives with better ca. we have to ask places like intermountain health in salt lake city or communities like green bay can offer high-quality care at a cost well below average, but other places in america cannot. we need to identify the best practices across the country, learn from the successes, and duplicate those successes ever where else, and we should change the war incentives that reward doctors and hospitals based on how many tests -- change the award incentives that reward doctors and hospitals based on how many tests they do. even if those tests and procedures are not necessary for

result in medical mistakes. doctors did not get into the medical profession to be bean counters for paper pushers. they are not interested in spending all their time acting like lawyers or business executives. they became doctors to kill people, and that is what we have to free them to be able to do. -- they became doctors do heal people, and that is what we have to free them to be able to do. we know that when somebody does not have health insurance, they are forced to get treatment at the er, and all of us and of paying for it. the average family pays $1,000 in extra premiums to pay for people who go to the emergency rooms who do not have insurance. you are already subsidizing, but you're subsidizing the most expensive care. you would be better off subsidizing to make sure they are getting regular checkups.

you are already paying for it, so what we are working on is the creation of something called the health insurance exchange, which would allow you to one-stop shop for health care plans, compare benefits and prices, choose the plan that is best for you. if you are happy with your plan, you keep it. none of these plans would be able to deny coverage on the basis of pre-existing conditions. [applause] every plan should include an affordable basic benefits package, and if you cannot afford one of these plans, we should provide assistance to make sure you can. [applause] i also strongly believe one of the options in the exchange should be a public insurance

option. the reason is not because we want a government takeover of health care. i have already said it. if you have got a private plan that works for you, that is great, but once the competition. if the private insurance companies have to compete with a public auction, it will keep them honest, and it will help keep their prices down. [applause] covering more americans is obviously going to require some money up front. we will save money when they stopped going to the emergency run -- room, but it will cost money up front. there is going to be a cost, and it comes at a time when we do not have a lot of extra money to spend. let's be honest. when i came in, we had 1.3 trillion dollar deficit, and with no economic recession we are going through, tax revenues

aren't not -- with of the economic recession we are going through, tax revenues are down. more people are seeking help from the state, so we have got a lot of pressure on our budget, so that is why i have already promised reform cannot add to our deficit over the next 10 years, and to make that happen, we have already identified hundreds of billions of dollars worth of savings in our budget -- savings that will come from steps like reducing medicare overpayments to insurance companies end i will be outlining hundreds of billions of dollars more in savings in days to come. even with these savings, reform will require some additional of crown resources, and that is why i propose that we scaled back -- some additional up-front resources, and that is why i propose we scale back some of the higher income americans and take it back to the rate