senate -- during the summer. we see each other all the time. everyone is in shock. people come after us, hit us. they even throw rocks. last night we saw a man who was see throwing rocks. -- who was 80 throwing rocks. host: thank you. , "newsmakers -- on "newsmakers" this week, the obama decision on guantanamo bay detainee is. here is what they had to say talking about republican efforts for a health-care bill. >> we have two main committees working on the bill in the senate.

health, labor, education. 10 kit -- ted kennedy has been the chairman but he has not been healthy enough to oversee that. his staff for a bill that was very partisan. it has rationing, the government running health insurance, mandates formed lawyers to pay for -- mandates for employers to pay for policies. on the finance committee, there has been more discussion. we had a lot of meetings where we talk about this. the bill is not being written with republican input. >> last week i was speaking with finance democrats, they insisted that max baucus and chuck grassley, but i am wondering if they are grasping at straws.

trying to grab for olympia snowe, maybe a couple of others. does not sound like to me you will pick up a bipartisan vote. >> you are exactly right. charles grassley has been given no authority to negotiate anything. he has said that while his staff has spoken to senator baucus, he is not negotiating with max baucus. we have not had a republican meeting to decide the republican position. it may reflect the fact that i know that our democratic friends know what a lot of us are thinking. host: you will be able to see the entire interview with senator jon kyl later on this

morning after this program, at 10:00 a.m. on c-span. we are going to continue our discussion of spending by the obama administration, especially with regards to health and other areas right after this break. we will be right back. ♪ >> the government funding of direct aid to colleges and students is aid late 1960's

thing that has grown rapidly since then. >> today, not even government- backed student loans at hillside cut -- hillsdale college are accepted. >> we have a lawyer in town that tries to keep the government from giving us money. he said there would be no use in trying to read the paper work. >> tonight, at 8:00, on c-span's "q&a." >> more nonfiction books with author's later today on c-span 2's "book tv." joel rosenberg takes you inside the revolution. this is followed by a look at what is next for the economy.

a discussion on taxes and the end of prosperity. later, "foreclosure nation." housing and where it is headed. afterwards, how do you run for congress with only $7,000 in your sixth grade student is running the campaign? sherry cahill gave it a shot. look for our schedules online, at booktv.org. >> people like to have books. it is a very sticky medium. you have seen it be sticky since the 15th century. >> monday, "the communicators," the co-chairman of random house

on how the publishing industry is changing. >> where and -- when there is digital media, it is hard to be proud of a bookshelf that is a memory stick. >> "washington journal" continues. host: michael ettlinger, of the center for american progress. yesterday the president talked about trimming medicare and medicaid as a way to pay for health care reform. what are your thoughts? guest: i think that this country spends more than any other in the world on health care. it is critical for our economic and budget future to bring those costs in. those are the specific programs where most of the government spending on health care kurds. that is the place to start --

spending on health care ochrcur. that is the place to start. host: john lott, is this the place to start? >> they have done this before, and it will result in -- guest: they have done this before, and of the remaining private insurers out there are going have to pay more. unfortunately, for some time they will be able to impose higher costs on private insurers. the entire program that the president has is to try to eliminate private insurance and replaced it with government insurance. at that point you will see a situation where hospitals are forced out of business. host: from "the washington post," they report that the

president proposed subsidies tossed bottles, "and -- proposed subs -- proposed subsidies to hospitals. guest: if they were able to help those patients, there would be a substitution. host: do you go along with the plan that has to go with subsidies to uninsured patients? guest of the president's plan is not to get rid of private insurance -- guest: the president's plan is not to get rid of private insurance. as i said, we spend more than any other country in the world, by far, on health care. we need to get that under control. host: we will be talking for the next 45 minutes about the spending patterns of the obama administration in areas like

health care, the auto maker situation, and the financial bailout. if you would like to get involved in the conversation, for republicans, 202-737-0001. for democrats, 202-737-0002. for independents, 202-737-0205. john, give me your thoughts on the administration's spending with regards to trying to reverse the current situation with u.s. automakers. guest: i think it would have been better if the government did not take them over. they will not be run efficiently. barney frank, for whatever reason, getting involved in

their plans based on no kind of economic situation. when you look at the uaw revisions, letters going out to members saying that they did not have to cut the member our benefits, that they actually got involved in deciding where the cars would be made. they promised the uaw certain types of jobs. a decision that might be fine if you want to create certain jobs for certain groups, but it means that you will be producing a more costly car and losing money. again and again, whether it is the headquarters of general motors moving out of detroit, these decisions have not been made on any kind of a sense across space, but on political calculations. in the future the government will be on the hook for more

money. host: i think -- guest: i think that the government and the administration wants to get out of running these car companies as fast as they can. they needed to work out a deal to get rid of a lot of the legacy costs' that automakers were carrying on their books. they needed help them get through this to get to a profitable model, but i am not worried about them micromanaging or running these car companies based on political motivations, as john suggests, over anything beyond it the shortest of times. they have got plenty to do. the uaw has got plenty of workers for these auto companies, and they took large and significant reductions relative to their contracts. host: alexandria, virginia. democratic line. go ahead. caller: i would like to discuss the health care legislation in congress right now.

in "the washington post" yesterday, you can see the number of people involved in health care industry who have a direct conflict of interest when it comes to health care for the american people. something has to be done about this. these people need to disqualify themselves if they have an interest in the health-care industry. they have to disqualify themselves. we cannot get anywhere. we have these people who are looking out for their own pockets and not the united states and its people. guest: many of these guys are the experts that know what is happening in the area. it will be hard to disqualify them from having any kind of input. my main concern is that you have a lot of people that do none know how the health care system works, and they are trying to run its the same way that the

administration is trying to run the automobile company. they have no expertise, no way to make sure they're getting things right. when you micromanage -- we had larry summers about one month ago, he was talking about $700 billion being wasted each year in the united states, that we could get rid of that and it would have no impact on the quality of health care. the biggest example that he gave was tonsillectomies. he was saying that it may not affect the quality of health, but the vast majority ever done because of chronic pain -- vast majority are down because of chronic pain. you will have a bureaucracy saying that we have looked at a measure that we can look at in terms of whether it affects your actual health, we will not consider any amount of pain in deciding that these are unnecessary surgeries.

that was one example and it was the top example that larry summers brought up, indicating that may be the people, patients, and doctors, might have more information. host: republican line, florida. caller: hopefully you give me as much time as you gave that iranian. i do not want to mess with our medicare. taking this money from the 50 million illegals in this country, we are all going to be paying for their health care. people on medicare will die because we will not have the coverage that we need. obama will have this country as a third world country in about six months. host: is that it? caller: i would like your comment about all this health

insurance that we're going to give to the illegals. guest: i am a bit more optimistic about the fate of the country, i do not think it we will wind up being a third world country. i know that the goal here is not to reduce the quality of care. it is to improve the quality of care and do it more efficiently. we are a very efficient country when it comes to the provision of health care. there are a lot of treatments provided that are not always the best. that is why the administration wants to make investments in to comparative analyses on which are more effective and which are less effective. right now we do not have any scientific basis for determining what the best way is

to treat a lot of different conditions. that is better for the patients and all of us who are receiving health care, but better for the country from a fiscal standpoint as well. we are actually doing the things in health care that are most effective and efficient. host: how does the administration go about selling this plan better so that folks like the last caller are not concerned that medicare will go away? guest: i just think that it is like anything else. you have got to get out there and explain it. there is going to be feared. when you touch on health care, there will be fear that will make things worse. the administration's plan is to do his bit by bit, step by step. people will get more comfortable as they start seeing the

benefits of these kinds of investments. host: john lott, response? guest: people are incredibly happy with the health care that they get right now. 90% of people, even among the elements -- even among the uninsured. the vast majority of uninsured are happy with the quality of health care that they actually received. only about 2.3% of americans are uninsured and dissatisfied with health care quality. 3% are dissatisfied in every way. we are talking about these kinds of changes where the government will go in and we will say did we have decided you cannot get this kind of surgery, even if the doctor in you decided you wanted. -- even if the doctor and you decided that you wanted it.

they are going to be having all sorts of political decisions that will get involved in the kind of health care that people will get. host: independent line, ohio. jim, good morning. caller: we can talk about policy, health care, pensions. today we are ruled by supply- side economics. the definition of supply side is leaving more money in the hands of corporations, which will create jobs, in the end benefiting society. that does not work. if you give people more wages, there is less money for corporations. if you give people health care, there is less money for corporations. if you build infrastructure, there is less money for corporations.

we can argue about health care and trade and pensions. we can argue about be materialistic ways of this country. but nothing is going to be solved -- by m 52-years old. between 45 -- i a 4552 years old the. -- ifi a am 52 years old. we have been left with a 1929 kind of depression. we have imperialistic motives in terms of dealing with saudi arabia and china. this led to airplanes flying into buildings. you guys, you can argue all that you want.

but this is a problem that society has to deal with. how did society deal with problems during the civil war? the fascists during vietnam? host: jim, you have given us a lot to work with. [laughter] guest: two things. one, the part that i agree with , we have made this big investment and move towards supply side economics. it is true. it is all about tax cuts for corporations and the well-off. that has been passing for our economy. i think that it is a tried and failed system that is central to what the president wants to do. he wants to move away from that approach to one that recognizes that there is important public investments that we need to

make and that we need to pay for them responsibly. that is the step ahead. quickly, i would like to come back to john's point about health. an insurance company, it is a case that you are covered by them, or through a government program. they have a say in the treatments. as well they should. give some doctor or patient that has been proven -- doctor or patient wants to treatment that has been proven ineffective, that makes sense to deny it. we are fairly ill informed anon what works and what does not. there are currently no institutions that have the ability to do comparative and

constructive comparisons. it makes common sense for the government and the private sector to do this, not said that they can dictate doctors and their procedures, but simply to provide information about what is an effective and what does not, putting rules on the system. there is huge savings to be had from that kind of work. host: bruce, illinois. democratic line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like to offer some solutions on how to pay for health care. i think we are 27 in the world as far as how we pay for this. let's take a look at the united kingdom, canada, switzerland. let's look at what works and what does not work. on how to pay for it, why not raise the gap on social security

and medicare? another solution might be -- why not take every receipt and instead have it cost 50 cents, have a cost 52 cents -- have it cost 52 cents. the think it is my work? i will listen. host: your thoughts about his suggestions? guest: we have already seen a massive increase in government spending. it is hard to think of any time in u.s. history that we have had such a large increase. when we are talking about taking over the rest of the economy, the government already provides a large share of it but now it will do even more. how well can the government run

business? how well do they run the post office? any place where there is a private provider competing against government providers, if there are not huge government subsidies, what do customers pick? we do not want the government running the car companies. the notion of a private car company or a government car company and customers picking the government car company, nobody would hesitate on that choice. here we have the government going in and deciding that insurance companies are bad sometimes. there will be a government entity where there will be no competition. they will be moving very quickly to a single payer plan. there will not be competition between providers anymore. if somebody messes it up for they do not figure out what the

right type of surgery is, those insurance companies face competitive pressures and go out of business. we will not have that with the government doing this. host: what about raising the cap spun social security? -- what about raising the caps on social security? guest: wealthy people already pay much more in taxes than they get back in terms of benefits. if you would like to make it a complete welfare program, that is fine. one can talk about that. but you might as well raise some other tax. host: tenn., independent line. go ahead. caller: good morning. i wanted to ask the guy on the right, i cannot remember his name. host: my right, or your right?

caller: the one that pointed to himself. host: all right. michael ettlinger. caller: michael, can you give me one country where this type of health care has done very well and the majority of people are very happy with it? and then i wanted to ask another question. guest: no country that i am aware of has follow the model being pursued here. other developed countries have systems much more like what john is describing, which is not what the president is proposing. john keeps saying that we will have a single payer, government controlled system. they have been explicit that that is not what they're going to do. it will be a hybrid system, moving private insurance and providing better information, making sure that everyone is covered.

other countries have more of a system of a more involved government in terms of health care. i will say that almost every other developed country, every other developed country is able to provide health care to everybody in their country at a much lower cost than what we do. for the most part, the healthcare results in terms of the population is better than what we have. by do not know how happy people are with their -- i do not know how happy people are with their health care, but you can look at those things. de guest: they are much closer to the happiness of the uninsured -- things. guest: they are much closer to the happiness of the uninsured, and they do it through rationing. they do not provide mri's to a

lot of people. they have to wait for even a simple surgery. you talk about wanting to have a hybrid system, but the government is putting its heavy hand in favor of the single payer plan. for some time, people will switch out. we saw this yesterday, with the proposals to cut $313 billion from medicare and medicaid. government is constantly putting more and more mandates on what private insurance as to provide. they will have a hard time competing against the subsidies that will be given a single payer plans. guest: there will lead be a huge subsidy for single payer. >guest: we are already talking about it.

guest: in most states there are only a couple of places where countries -- companies are running an oligarchy. competition is not working the way that you are saying it is. i think that the administration is proposing something that is a well thought out balance between a government run system and a system the tanks the -- takes the strengths that we have and makes it work more efficiently. host: here is what the president had to say about health care from green bay, wisconsin. guest: what you will hear -- >> what you will hear during this debate is that people will say that the deficit is skyrocketing. that is the reason we cannot afford to do health reform. i want to repeat, the single biggest problem that we have in the terms of the debt and the deficit i